{"id":318722,"date":"2026-11-05T01:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-11-05T06:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf\/"},"modified":"2026-11-05T05:46:42","modified_gmt":"2026-11-05T10:46:42","slug":"married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf\/","title":{"rendered":"Married and Lonely? Luke &#038; Kristina Middendorf"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>You found your person. So why do you still feel so alone? Loneliness in marriage can turn your spouse into your therapist, best friend, and entire support system. That&#8217;s a heavy load for two people. FamilyLife president Luke Middendorf and his wife Kristina join Dave and Ann Wilson on FamilyLife Today to share how isolation, resentment, and one painfully honest conversation exposed what their marriage was missing.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Feeling lonely in marriage\u2014even when you love your spouse? Luke and Kristina Middendorf get personal with Dave and Ann Wilson on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":295627,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/aa3ac5b9-552e-4433-9f49-b4eb00cbbd80\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.85M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2094],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[11578],"cwp_profile":[11229],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-318722","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-marriage","podcast_series-marriage-needs-more-than-the-two-of-you-luke-kristina-middendorf","cwp_profile-luke-and-kristina-middendorf","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/318722\/married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/318722\/married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Z7Jh5z3scb\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf\/\">Married and Lonely? Luke &#038; Kristina Middendorf<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf\/embed\/#?secret=Z7Jh5z3scb\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Married and Lonely? Luke &#038; Kristina Middendorf&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Z7Jh5z3scb\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! 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Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network.<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nMarried and Lonely?\r\n\r\nGuests:Luke and Kristina Middendorf\r\n\r\nFrom the series:More than the Two of You (Day 1 of 2)\r\n\r\nAir date:November 5, 2026\r\n\r\nDave (00:04):\r\n\r\nI was preaching a couple weeks ago at my church. I made this comment: life change doesn't happen in rows; it happens in circles. I said when you sit around a circle and look in the eyes of other people and they share their story and you share your story and you open the Word together, that's going to change your life because now you're going to walk with them after that.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:30):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave (00:37):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Dave Wilson and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today. What we're going to talk about today has literally, I wrote it down, has shaped who we are as people, has shaped who we are as a couple, and especially our legacy.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00):\r\n\r\nI think this is such an important conversation because if we live out what we're going to talk about today, it will change our families, our marriages, our community and the world because we're going to hit some things that every single believer needs to hear and if they apply it, this will change your life.\r\n\r\nDave (01:21):\r\n\r\nYou cannot miss today's conversation. And by the way, guess who we got in the studio?\r\n\r\nAnn (01:26):\r\n\r\nThis is a treat.\r\n\r\nDave (01:26):\r\n\r\nWe got the president of FamilyLife in the studio, Luke Middendorf and Kristina Middendorf. Welcome back.\r\n\r\nKristina (01:33):\r\n\r\nThanks guys.\r\n\r\nLuke (01:33):\r\n\r\nThanks for having us back. We're glad to be here again.\r\n\r\nDave (01:36):\r\n\r\nSo even as you hear us set up where we're going today, what would you add to that? Because our listener still doesn't know. They're like, okay, what is this? Is this oneness in marriage?\r\n\r\nAnn (01:46):\r\n\r\nBecause I think you guys resonate with what we said at the beginning because you were shaking your heads. If you're watching on YouTube, you're like, oh yeah, they're agreeing.\r\n\r\nKristina (01:54):\r\n\r\nWell, I think you set it up like this is so important and has power to change the family, the community, the world, but it's really simple. So they're probably thinking, what are they going to say? Something I've never heard, tell me the formula. And you're going to hear it and be like, that's it. So hopefully we're going to unpack why, the why and how it has been such a gift to us.\r\n\r\nLuke (02:20):\r\n\r\nAnd I would say this is a hidden secret for health and marriages. It's not only important for the way we operate in the world, but it actually is a secret that we've experienced for health and growth in our own marriage.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:34):\r\n\r\nAnd it's something you wouldn't suspect or say, oh, here's something to help your marriage. You would never say this right off the top of your head.\r\n\r\nDave (02:40):\r\n\r\nOkay. If I'm watching or listening, I'm the guy right now going, \u201cWhat is it?!\u201d Would you guys stop teasing us and tell us what it is? How would you say it in a word or two? What are we talking about today?\r\n\r\nLuke (02:50):\r\n\r\nYour marriage is not meant to be alone.\r\n\r\nDave (02:53):\r\n\r\nYeah. And in a word, discipleship. Which by the way, we all know Jesus' command, the great commission is go make\u2014\r\n\r\nLuke (03:01):\r\n\r\nDisciples. \r\n\r\nDave (03:02):\r\n\r\nNot just converts, which often that's part of it, but we make\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (03:05):\r\n\r\nAnd we love that.\r\n\r\nDave (03:06):\r\n\r\n\u2014disciples. So what do you mean your marriage is not meant to be lived alone?\r\n\r\nLuke (03:10):\r\n\r\nI think there's a misconception, especially for young people when they enter marriage to say, okay, we finally made it. I've worked so hard, prayed so hard to find the right person and I found them. And now here we go. We find an apartment or a house. We get our life together and now it's just the two of us. And ultimately that can set up a marriage for disaster if you are oriented and you put so much pressure relationally just on the spouse that God has given you, whereas biblically He's created us for community. Of course, our relationship with Christ, relationship with our spouse is most important and then with our children, but God's made us for more, not just for us to impact people, but also to receive from people.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:56):\r\n\r\nTake us back to the beginning of you guys first getting married. You're alone. You're like, this is going to be amazing. What did your lives look like? Because you did have people in your lives.\r\n\r\nDave (04:07):\r\n\r\nHow many years?\r\n\r\nKristina (04:08):\r\n\r\n17 this May. Our first place we lived, newly married, was senior housing. We lived in an apartment for\u2014\r\n\r\nLuke (04:18):\r\n\r\nNot like seniors in college.\r\n\r\nKristina (04:19):\r\n\r\nSenior\u2014\r\n\r\nLuke (04:20):\r\n\r\n\u2014citizens.\r\n\r\nKristina (04:21):\r\n\r\nIt was attached to a nursing home and it's where a lot of spouses would live if their spouse is at the nursing home. They would live in the senior apartments. We lived there for free. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nWhy? Why? \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nOh, for free. \r\n\r\nKristina:\r\n\r\nWe were raising support to come on staff. Luke's dad was the COO of the company and he said, \"We need some more chaplaincy, spiritual care help. If you guys could work 10 hours a week each to help us, we could do it at the same time. You can live in our apartment for free.\" Corner apartment. It was spacious. We had pull cords at the bathroom just in case we fell.\r\n\r\nLuke (05:02):\r\n\r\nMorning announcements would come on for what the four o'clock supper would be.\r\n\r\nKristina (05:05):\r\n\r\nOh that was the best. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nSeriously?\r\n\r\nLuke &amp;amp; Kristina:\r\n\r\nYes. \r\n\r\nAnn (05:07):\r\n\r\nHow old were you guys?\r\n\r\nKristina (05:07):\r\n\r\nI was 23 years old. Yeah.\r\n\r\nLuke (05:10):\r\n\r\nThe unique thing was we were coming out of a campus ministry context. So we had really four or 500 people that we knew and were in this ministry. And yet it was clear as I was ending college, Kristina had ended the year before, that God was bringing us together; that we'd be better together for the next season of our lives. And so we spent so much time preparing for the wedding, doing premarital counseling, thinking about what's our calling, decided to do ministry. And all this effort was on us, really us and Jesus in a lot of ways.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:43):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nLuke (05:43):\r\n\r\nWe get married, join staff, move into the senior housing and I just remember sitting there in this little apartment. It was a corner, but it was small and thinking, where did everyone go? We had all of these people, life-giving relationships, and then it was us. All this we worked towards it being just us. And then ultimately, it felt lonely. We're enjoying our relationship, but there's got to be more as a married couple for us to thrive and grow into who God's called us to be.\r\n\r\nKristina (06:15):\r\n\r\nThis senior housing put us in a different part of the Twin Cities than all of our friends and our community we'd built in college. So we were a little geographically isolated. So we found a church pretty quickly and we saw that they had a marriage small group and we're like, \"Well, we're married, so we should go.\" So we show up at this small group in someone's home and all of the couples, the youngest couples have high schoolers. Okay. We thought we hit the jackpot because here are these people 15, 20 years down the road from us. Some of them had kids our age who we get to learn from. And we probably spent nine months to a year in that small group before we moved and it was so sweet. So that was the beginning of our realization, \u201cWe can't do this alone. We need people around us.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (07:04):\r\n\r\nWell, Luke, you had said something about it puts pressure. When you don't have people, you put pressure on each other in the relationship. What do you mean by that? And what would it have looked like had you not had people?\r\n\r\nLuke (07:17):\r\n\r\nThe pressure we felt that first year of marriage is really the same pressure that we can feel today. All of us as individuals, we go into our day, we are in a ministry context or a business context, or if you're a teacher, you're experiencing a lot in a given day, a lot of emotions, a lot of situations. And you might be driving home thinking like, \u201cI need to talk to someone about this or sometimes even vent about it.\u201d And over time, if your spouse is the only person who's hearing about your stresses, your emotions, your complaints, your pressures at work, that can be a heavy weight for that one person to carry. Honestly, at the beginning, that was kind of how we oriented our lives was, again, we've worked so hard on finding the right person and I'm sharing everything with Kristina because we didn't really know how to bring other people into our lives now that we weren't single anymore.\r\n\r\n(08:13):\r\n\r\nAnd it just became too much for one person to bear.\r\n\r\nDave (08:17):\r\n\r\nYeah. And it is interesting. I'm guessing you've had the same experience that a lot of couples I don't think have had, but I hope they, even after this broadcast will have. And it could be any situation, but if you walk in a, what we would call a small group, Bible study, whatever you want to call it, at our church we call it a small group. If you decide as a couple to say, I'm going to join this small group, whether it's married couples or not, but let's say it's a married couple small group. The thing that almost always happens is you walk in there and 10, 15, 20 minutes in you go, and you may not say anything till you get in the car later, but you're like, they struggle like we do. Right away you're like, we're not alone. And then hopefully if there's an older couple that's married 10 years more or you think there's somebody over there that they've been through this 10 years ahead of us. \r\n\r\n(09:06):\r\n\r\nThey got three-year-olds, we just had a baby. There's somebody that's in the same year we are. I want to hang out with them and go have meal, but I need a Paul, a Timothy, a Barnabas, somebody in front of you, somebody beside you, somebody behind you. I mean, you go to the New Testament, you see the Apostle Paul was planting these churches. He's sort of ahead of you on the track. I just came to Christ. I need somebody ahead of me that can teach me. You need a Paul, that's what it means. Somebody more mature, maybe older, maybe ahead of you, whatever way it looks, that's a Paul. A Timothy is like, who's behind me that I'm going to pour in what I'm learning, I'm going to give to somebody else. And then a Barnabas is somebody right about the same place and we're walking beside each other.\r\n\r\n(09:48):\r\n\r\nJust again, we didn't really say what those different roles are, but we all need those three things in our life. I was preaching a couple weeks ago at my church. I made this comment: your life will not change coming to Sunday mornings at our church. Hopefully it's great. Hopefully the sermon, I hope you walk out and go, that was good and powerful. It's not going to change your life. One hour a week will not do it. And my comment was life change doesn't happen in rows. It happens in circles. I said when you sit around a circle and look in the eyes of other people and they share their story and you share your story and you open the word together, that's going to change your life because now you're going to walk with them after that circle, that small group. \r\n\r\nOur financial partners are the heartbeat of this ministry.\r\n\r\n(10:40):\r\n\r\nAnd when you join this monthly giving community, you're not just donating, you're building something eternal.\r\n\r\nAnn (10:47):\r\n\r\nAnd we'd be so honored to have you on the journey with us. We really would. So here's the question. Will you join us today?\r\n\r\nDave (10:56):\r\n\r\nI hope your answer is yes. And if it is, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can click the donate button right there and become a part of the monthly partner program.\r\n\r\nAnn (11:09):\r\n\r\nThis is FamilyLife Today and you're listening to Luke and Kristina Middendorf who are the presidents of FamilyLife. I remember one of our sons was, we were doing a series at church on discipleship, this whole idea, and he named it, do you remember this?\r\n\r\nDave (11:23):\r\n\r\nOh yeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (11:23):\r\n\r\nThe color of your dishes. And I'm like, \"What's that about?\" He goes\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (11:27):\r\n\r\nHe brought this idea to a teaching team planning like, \"Hey, let's do a series.\" And he called it something like, \"I want to know the color of dishes, or you should know the color of my dishes.\" We're all like, \"What are you talking about?\" He goes, \"Discipleship means you're in somebody's home and you know the color of the dishes.\"\r\n\r\nAnn (11:42):\r\n\r\nBecause you've eaten there.\r\n\r\nDave (11:43):\r\n\r\nWho's in your home? Who are you inviting? I'm like, \u201cThat's good.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (11:46):\r\n\r\nBut I will say you guys, the same thing. I feel like Dave and I were so fortunate. Cru is an amazing ministry. So when we're in college, we are both being discipled. I would meet with Kathy. She'd go through an hour with me of like, \"Here's your stuff and now I want you to give it away.\" So then I'd meet with my person that week and I'd just do the exact same thing that Kathy walked me through. And then we get married, then we're in ministry, it's so fun. And then we have children and suddenly Dave is out doing all his things and I'm by myself in my home.\r\n\r\nDave (12:23):\r\n\r\nAnd I get home, she's mad at me because I\u2019ve been out.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:25):\r\n\r\nI'm like, \"What am I-\"\r\n\r\nLuke (12:26):\r\n\r\nWe've never been there. Sorry about that. \r\n\r\nDave (12:31):\r\n\r\nNo, I heard a\u2014\r\n\r\nKristina (12:31):\r\n\r\nUnrelatable.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:32):\r\n\r\nI don't even know who I am at this point. And then I start putting the pressure on Dave like, \"You're not making me happy. You're not home enough. You're not talking to me.\" Not even thinking of he can't meet all of my needs. Jesus can, but I also need people.\r\n\r\nDave (12:50):\r\n\r\nOkay. So you've been there.\r\n\r\nKristina (12:52):\r\n\r\nMaybe.\r\n\r\nDave (12:52):\r\n\r\nLet's hear about it.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:54):\r\n\r\nDid you experience that too?\r\n\r\nKristina (12:56):\r\n\r\nOh, I had so much resentment and bitterness towards him in our early years of having kids.\r\n\r\nLuke (13:03):\r\n\r\nWhen we had our first and then our second kid, in a lot of ways, our professional life and ministry was taking off. There was more opportunities, more time to be spent working. We were working with athletes and coaches, and it was the time of my life. Our team was growing. There was just a lot of fruitfulness. And yet at home, it was very chaotic and we didn't really know what to do because we weren't giving people access to our life. It was so busy. Our second kid was dealing with some health issues, and it was difficult for us just to go day to day in a lot of ways. And our marriage was suffering. One good thing we did, going off of what you said, Dave, is we started to build a circle of people through our church. We joined a small group with some other married couples.\r\n\r\n(13:50):\r\n\r\nA couple of them were in ministry as well. And that was a good first step. Where things really started to change was when one of those couples began to spend time in our home and we began to spend time in their home. We learned so much from them, not just by the things they taught us, but their willingness to speak truth and grace into our lives.\r\n\r\nKristina (14:12):\r\n\r\nOur small group was going out to this small theater to see this show, and we'd had dinner all together at a restaurant and we were driving from the restaurant to the theater. And I was about to get in the car with Luke and my friend Sam said, \"No, no, no, you're coming with me. Luke can go with her husband.\" And I was like, \"Oh, fun. Girl time.\" She just cut right through it in the car and she said, \"Kristina, I love you and this is in love, but you are bitter and resentful towards your husband. And it is a pattern, but we've seen it for some time.\" I'd never, never in my life had someone be that direct with me before. \r\n\r\nAnn (14:56):\r\n\r\nDid you cry? What did you\u2014\r\n\r\nKristina (14:57):\r\n\r\nMy initial response was I was mad and then defensive. \r\n\r\nDave (15:02):\r\n\r\nLike I'm not bitter. \r\n\r\nAnn (15:03):\r\n\r\nYou don\u2019t know what I'm living.\r\n\r\nKristina (15:03):\r\n\r\nI\u2019ll tell you why I'm bitter and defensive. You have no idea. So that's like the 10-minute drive to the show. We're sitting through the show and then my heart softens and now I feel the shame, the sadness.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:18):\r\n\r\nConviction.\r\n\r\nKristina (15:18):\r\n\r\nThe conviction. And so then the drive home, we're separate again in cars and we both park on our street. We're in the car for hours parked on our street and I was weeping. I felt caught. I knew what she was saying was 100% true. There was also a part of me wanting to know, what is he saying to my imperfect husband? Because he is not saintly in this. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nGuess what? We all want to know. \r\n\r\nKristina:\r\n\r\nHe's not a saint, but the majority was my problem.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:50):\r\n\r\nA mirror was held up to you. Yes. I don't like those mirrors. \r\n\r\nDave (15:53):\r\n\r\nWhat was he saying to you?\r\n\r\nLuke (15:54):\r\n\r\nHe didn't say anything the first part of the drive, which is very typical of guys. We probably caught up about the sports game or the show we were going to see. But the second drive when we went from the theater back to our house is when he turned towards me. He showed up the mirror to me in the way I was prioritizing ministry and work over my spouse and seeing Kristina has real needs and you need to shift your time, your attention and your emotion towards her in this season and really attune to where she is at and prioritize her as God's gift to you. Even more so, what could you do to set her up well to grow in this season?\r\n\r\nKristina (16:39):\r\n\r\nAnd that was a hard choice for you to make because home was unpleasant. I'm negative. I'm cranky. I'm not sleeping well. The kids are little. I'm resentful. And he could go on campus and he was the guy. He was beloved. He'd get the accolades and the attention. No one had issues with him there. I needed to soften my heart towards him, but for him to move towards me when I am pokey and spiky and all my bitterness is out there, who wants to lean in and touch a cactus, right? Nobody does.\r\n\r\nDave (17:14):\r\n\r\nSo after that conversation, was there some major change?\r\n\r\nKristina (17:19):\r\n\r\nIt wasn't just one conversation. They committed to showing up for us, walking with us, spending time, the four of us together saying, \"How's it going a week later? How's it going a month later?\"\r\n\r\nLuke (17:30):\r\n\r\nI think we had a choice to make though. We could have said, \"Thanks for what you shared, but we're out. We don't want that. We'll figure this out on our own because it's not always fun to look in the mirror when you haven't looked in a while.\" And yet the commitment we made is we said, \"We need to lean in actually with each of these people individually, her with her friend, mine with this guy, and also as a couple.\" And we didn't know what that would look like because we had zero extra time. So we have to get creative in this season while our kids are young. I don't think they were even school age yet or maybe\u2014\r\n\r\nKristina (18:05):\r\n\r\nThey would come over during the day\u2014 \r\n\r\nLuke (18:07):\r\n\r\nDuring the day sometimes.\r\n\r\nKristina (18:07):\r\n\r\n\u2014when Brooks was at preschool and our older ones were in school.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:12):\r\n\r\nAnd if you're listening and if you have kids in preschool or haven't started school, I just want to remind you this is the hardest season of your life. And God didn't\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (18:21):\r\n\r\nIt's going to get better.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:22):\r\n\r\nYeah, it will get better, but he doesn't want you to do it alone. Proverbs 27:6, it says, \"The wounds of a friend are trustworthy, but the kisses of an enemy are excessive.\" Those were wounds at the time. Those were some hard truths, but boy, those were trustworthy and they helped change you guys.\r\n\r\nDave (18:42):\r\n\r\nAnd actually, I obviously don't know the couple, but that took courage.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:46):\r\n\r\nOh. \r\n\r\nDave (18:47):\r\n\r\nBecause sometimes you're afraid to say the hard thing. And also on the other side, it took humility for you guys to hear it and say, \"It's true. I need to own that and make changes.\" Because I've said things like that sometimes and it does not go well. \r\n\r\nAnn (19:01):\r\n\r\nYou lose the relationship.\r\n\r\nDave (19:02):\r\n\r\nThey're done with you.\r\n\r\nKristina (19:04):\r\n\r\nYeah. They knew. We all have our circles of influence, our sphere of people we know. We have a responsibility as believers to steward that. And so I really believe they felt before the Lord like it was an obedience issue for them to notice a sin pattern in people they loved and say, \"We need to point that out.\" It would've been disobedient for them to say, \"We'll just let that go. We'll pray for them. We'll just hope it gets okay because we don't want to lose the relationship.\" And because they took the risk, it for sure has helped me have courage to lean in with other people because I saw them do it well. She didn't beat around the bush, but she was kind and gracious. She was willing to share their own story. It wasn't pointing the finger shaming. It was a me too. And I'm really sad and we're nervous for you guys, but it was serious.\r\n\r\n(20:02):\r\n\r\nI just remember feeling the weight of this is a moment where either we lean in together or the separation just gets bigger.\r\n\r\nDave (20:13):\r\n\r\nSo you've talked about a mentor or somebody speaking and pouring into you. What about, because you just talked about you being a mentor to somebody else. So this is the Timothy part.\r\n\r\nKristina (20:23):\r\n\r\nYep.\r\n\r\nDave (20:23):\r\n\r\nThe Apostle Paul poured into his disciple, Timothy. What's that look like for you guys? So you're that couple now that's speaking life or correction into somebody else.\r\n\r\nLuke (20:33):\r\n\r\nWe've had the privilege of mentoring and discipling a lot of different people over the years, but as Kristina said, it's very tempting to keep it in a box to say, \"I'm going to meet with you at this coffee shop or in a locker room in sports ministry or wherever, and you're just talking about the Word or you're just talking about one part of their life.\" And there's something that really shifts when you get access into that person's life or they get access into your life. And so even in our previous season before we moved to Florida and moved to FamilyLife, there were a couple of couples that were in our lives that we thought, what would it look like to actually invite them into our home on a more regular basis?\r\n\r\nAnn (21:17):\r\n\r\nTo see the color of your dishes.\r\n\r\nLuke (21:19):\r\n\r\nTo see the color of the dishes and the good and the bad of our own parenting, our own\u2014we've seen growth in our marriage, but it's nowhere near perfect. We still have those days where we go back to the patterns of overwork, overprioritizing ministry or resentment and to say, \"Actually, that might be what they need to see.\r\n\r\n(21:40):\r\n\r\nThey don't necessarily need to see our perfection. They need to see us being an example.\" And what we talk about all the time is we're not called to be perfect examples. We are called to be living examples. With one of the couples I'm thinking about, we just took the initiative and say, \"Hey, you guys have been asking for time with us. Here's what we can offer you in this next season. Why don't you come over to our house once a month, I think it was, and the floor is yours. You can ask us questions that you have about parenting your young kids. You can ask us about ministry or your professional life, and we're committed in that hour and a half, two hours for you, for your marriage.\" There wasn't even specific content we went through, but for this couple, that's exactly what they needed.\r\n\r\n(22:26):\r\n\r\nThey right away took us up on it and for the next year or two, it wasn't every month too, sometimes we missed, but that was so good for them, probably even better for us to say they're going to watch us putting our kids to bed, the ups and the downs of that whole experience and actually learn from watching our lives, not just what we teach them.\r\n\r\nDave (22:47):\r\n\r\nHow would you encourage somebody to find somebody ahead of them that they could reach out to and say, \"Man, I'd love it if you could pour into me.\" How would you encourage somebody to do that?\r\n\r\nLuke (22:57):\r\n\r\nThere's probably people in your life already that you might not be aware of. The first step really is you have to get involved in your local church. There's a pool of people there. And again, as you said, Ann, they're not perfect.\r\n\r\n(23:10):\r\n\r\nThey're probably not people you want to put on the pedestal, but they might be just one stage of life ahead of you, one season of life, maybe a few years ahead or decades ahead. There's people that you know already who you could invite into your life or even say, \"Hey, I'd like to see your life and watch how do you make decisions? How do you think about finances or parenting or grandparenting, any of those things?\" And so start with the people you already know and be thinking about what's something that I need to grow in in this season or that we need to grow in as a couple that we could ask them to help us. So it starts with that posture of humility and saying we need help. Who's already in our life? You don't have to necessarily go online and do a Google search or who are mentors in my community.\r\n\r\n(23:58):\r\n\r\nThat could be a route, but my guess is God has already put some couples or individuals in your life that you could initiate with and say, \"Hey, we need help. Could you help us in this next season?\"\r\n\r\nAnn (24:13):\r\n\r\nThis is our passion, isn't it?\r\n\r\nDave (24:16):\r\n\r\nYeah. Discipleship. I hope it's every follower of Christ's passion. And Luke and Kristina, man, this is their passion. It is. And for them to be leading FamilyLife, that is a real blessing that that is who we are and where we're going. We're doing the work of Jesus to make disciples through a thing called the family, through marriage and family. And guess what? They're going to be back with us tomorrow, so you don't want to miss. It gets even richer. See you tomorrow.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae ministry; 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-11-05.pdf"],"ssp_guid":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/married-and-lonely-luke-kristina-middendorf\/"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82534:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{max-width: 100%;width: 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1793875603;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg",1024,1024,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret Coyle","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coyle-a9eb952f\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Feeling lonely in marriage\u2014even when you love your spouse? Luke and Kristina Middendorf get personal with Dave and Ann Wilson on FamilyLife Today.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network.<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-11-05.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nMarried and Lonely?\r\n\r\nGuests:Luke and Kristina Middendorf\r\n\r\nFrom the series:More than the Two of You (Day 1 of 2)\r\n\r\nAir date:November 5, 2026\r\n\r\nDave (00:04):\r\n\r\nI was preaching a couple weeks ago at my church. I made this comment: life change doesn't happen in rows; it happens in circles. I said when you sit around a circle and look in the eyes of other people and they share their story and you share your story and you open the Word together, that's going to change your life because now you're going to walk with them after that.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:30):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave (00:37):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Dave Wilson and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today. What we're going to talk about today has literally, I wrote it down, has shaped who we are as people, has shaped who we are as a couple, and especially our legacy.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00):\r\n\r\nI think this is such an important conversation because if we live out what we're going to talk about today, it will change our families, our marriages, our community and the world because we're going to hit some things that every single believer needs to hear and if they apply it, this will change your life.\r\n\r\nDave (01:21):\r\n\r\nYou cannot miss today's conversation. And by the way, guess who we got in the studio?\r\n\r\nAnn (01:26):\r\n\r\nThis is a treat.\r\n\r\nDave (01:26):\r\n\r\nWe got the president of FamilyLife in the studio, Luke Middendorf and Kristina Middendorf. Welcome back.\r\n\r\nKristina (01:33):\r\n\r\nThanks guys.\r\n\r\nLuke (01:33):\r\n\r\nThanks for having us back. We're glad to be here again.\r\n\r\nDave (01:36):\r\n\r\nSo even as you hear us set up where we're going today, what would you add to that? Because our listener still doesn't know. They're like, okay, what is this? Is this oneness in marriage?\r\n\r\nAnn (01:46):\r\n\r\nBecause I think you guys resonate with what we said at the beginning because you were shaking your heads. If you're watching on YouTube, you're like, oh yeah, they're agreeing.\r\n\r\nKristina (01:54):\r\n\r\nWell, I think you set it up like this is so important and has power to change the family, the community, the world, but it's really simple. So they're probably thinking, what are they going to say? Something I've never heard, tell me the formula. And you're going to hear it and be like, that's it. So hopefully we're going to unpack why, the why and how it has been such a gift to us.\r\n\r\nLuke (02:20):\r\n\r\nAnd I would say this is a hidden secret for health and marriages. It's not only important for the way we operate in the world, but it actually is a secret that we've experienced for health and growth in our own marriage.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:34):\r\n\r\nAnd it's something you wouldn't suspect or say, oh, here's something to help your marriage. You would never say this right off the top of your head.\r\n\r\nDave (02:40):\r\n\r\nOkay. If I'm watching or listening, I'm the guy right now going, \u201cWhat is it?!\u201d Would you guys stop teasing us and tell us what it is? How would you say it in a word or two? What are we talking about today?\r\n\r\nLuke (02:50):\r\n\r\nYour marriage is not meant to be alone.\r\n\r\nDave (02:53):\r\n\r\nYeah. And in a word, discipleship. Which by the way, we all know Jesus' command, the great commission is go make\u2014\r\n\r\nLuke (03:01):\r\n\r\nDisciples. \r\n\r\nDave (03:02):\r\n\r\nNot just converts, which often that's part of it, but we make\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (03:05):\r\n\r\nAnd we love that.\r\n\r\nDave (03:06):\r\n\r\n\u2014disciples. So what do you mean your marriage is not meant to be lived alone?\r\n\r\nLuke (03:10):\r\n\r\nI think there's a misconception, especially for young people when they enter marriage to say, okay, we finally made it. I've worked so hard, prayed so hard to find the right person and I found them. And now here we go. We find an apartment or a house. We get our life together and now it's just the two of us. And ultimately that can set up a marriage for disaster if you are oriented and you put so much pressure relationally just on the spouse that God has given you, whereas biblically He's created us for community. Of course, our relationship with Christ, relationship with our spouse is most important and then with our children, but God's made us for more, not just for us to impact people, but also to receive from people.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:56):\r\n\r\nTake us back to the beginning of you guys first getting married. You're alone. You're like, this is going to be amazing. What did your lives look like? Because you did have people in your lives.\r\n\r\nDave (04:07):\r\n\r\nHow many years?\r\n\r\nKristina (04:08):\r\n\r\n17 this May. Our first place we lived, newly married, was senior housing. We lived in an apartment for\u2014\r\n\r\nLuke (04:18):\r\n\r\nNot like seniors in college.\r\n\r\nKristina (04:19):\r\n\r\nSenior\u2014\r\n\r\nLuke (04:20):\r\n\r\n\u2014citizens.\r\n\r\nKristina (04:21):\r\n\r\nIt was attached to a nursing home and it's where a lot of spouses would live if their spouse is at the nursing home. They would live in the senior apartments. We lived there for free. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nWhy? Why? \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nOh, for free. \r\n\r\nKristina:\r\n\r\nWe were raising support to come on staff. Luke's dad was the COO of the company and he said, \"We need some more chaplaincy, spiritual care help. If you guys could work 10 hours a week each to help us, we could do it at the same time. You can live in our apartment for free.\" Corner apartment. It was spacious. We had pull cords at the bathroom just in case we fell.\r\n\r\nLuke (05:02):\r\n\r\nMorning announcements would come on for what the four o'clock supper would be.\r\n\r\nKristina (05:05):\r\n\r\nOh that was the best. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nSeriously?\r\n\r\nLuke &amp;amp; Kristina:\r\n\r\nYes. \r\n\r\nAnn (05:07):\r\n\r\nHow old were you guys?\r\n\r\nKristina (05:07):\r\n\r\nI was 23 years old. Yeah.\r\n\r\nLuke (05:10):\r\n\r\nThe unique thing was we were coming out of a campus ministry context. So we had really four or 500 people that we knew and were in this ministry. And yet it was clear as I was ending college, Kristina had ended the year before, that God was bringing us together; that we'd be better together for the next season of our lives. And so we spent so much time preparing for the wedding, doing premarital counseling, thinking about what's our calling, decided to do ministry. And all this effort was on us, really us and Jesus in a lot of ways.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:43):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nLuke (05:43):\r\n\r\nWe get married, join staff, move into the senior housing and I just remember sitting there in this little apartment. It was a corner, but it was small and thinking, where did everyone go? We had all of these people, life-giving relationships, and then it was us. All this we worked towards it being just us. And then ultimately, it felt lonely. We're enjoying our relationship, but there's got to be more as a married couple for us to thrive and grow into who God's called us to be.\r\n\r\nKristina (06:15):\r\n\r\nThis senior housing put us in a different part of the Twin Cities than all of our friends and our community we'd built in college. So we were a little geographically isolated. So we found a church pretty quickly and we saw that they had a marriage small group and we're like, \"Well, we're married, so we should go.\" So we show up at this small group in someone's home and all of the couples, the youngest couples have high schoolers. Okay. We thought we hit the jackpot because here are these people 15, 20 years down the road from us. Some of them had kids our age who we get to learn from. And we probably spent nine months to a year in that small group before we moved and it was so sweet. So that was the beginning of our realization, \u201cWe can't do this alone. We need people around us.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (07:04):\r\n\r\nWell, Luke, you had said something about it puts pressure. When you don't have people, you put pressure on each other in the relationship. What do you mean by that? And what would it have looked like had you not had people?\r\n\r\nLuke (07:17):\r\n\r\nThe pressure we felt that first year of marriage is really the same pressure that we can feel today. All of us as individuals, we go into our day, we are in a ministry context or a business context, or if you're a teacher, you're experiencing a lot in a given day, a lot of emotions, a lot of situations. And you might be driving home thinking like, \u201cI need to talk to someone about this or sometimes even vent about it.\u201d And over time, if your spouse is the only person who's hearing about your stresses, your emotions, your complaints, your pressures at work, that can be a heavy weight for that one person to carry. Honestly, at the beginning, that was kind of how we oriented our lives was, again, we've worked so hard on finding the right person and I'm sharing everything with Kristina because we didn't really know how to bring other people into our lives now that we weren't single anymore.\r\n\r\n(08:13):\r\n\r\nAnd it just became too much for one person to bear.\r\n\r\nDave (08:17):\r\n\r\nYeah. And it is interesting. I'm guessing you've had the same experience that a lot of couples I don't think have had, but I hope they, even after this broadcast will have. And it could be any situation, but if you walk in a, what we would call a small group, Bible study, whatever you want to call it, at our church we call it a small group. If you decide as a couple to say, I'm going to join this small group, whether it's married couples or not, but let's say it's a married couple small group. The thing that almost always happens is you walk in there and 10, 15, 20 minutes in you go, and you may not say anything till you get in the car later, but you're like, they struggle like we do. Right away you're like, we're not alone. And then hopefully if there's an older couple that's married 10 years more or you think there's somebody over there that they've been through this 10 years ahead of us. \r\n\r\n(09:06):\r\n\r\nThey got three-year-olds, we just had a baby. There's somebody that's in the same year we are. I want to hang out with them and go have meal, but I need a Paul, a Timothy, a Barnabas, somebody in front of you, somebody beside you, somebody behind you. I mean, you go to the New Testament, you see the Apostle Paul was planting these churches. He's sort of ahead of you on the track. I just came to Christ. I need somebody ahead of me that can teach me. You need a Paul, that's what it means. Somebody more mature, maybe older, maybe ahead of you, whatever way it looks, that's a Paul. A Timothy is like, who's behind me that I'm going to pour in what I'm learning, I'm going to give to somebody else. And then a Barnabas is somebody right about the same place and we're walking beside each other.\r\n\r\n(09:48):\r\n\r\nJust again, we didn't really say what those different roles are, but we all need those three things in our life. I was preaching a couple weeks ago at my church. I made this comment: your life will not change coming to Sunday mornings at our church. Hopefully it's great. Hopefully the sermon, I hope you walk out and go, that was good and powerful. It's not going to change your life. One hour a week will not do it. And my comment was life change doesn't happen in rows. It happens in circles. I said when you sit around a circle and look in the eyes of other people and they share their story and you share your story and you open the word together, that's going to change your life because now you're going to walk with them after that circle, that small group. \r\n\r\nOur financial partners are the heartbeat of this ministry.\r\n\r\n(10:40):\r\n\r\nAnd when you join this monthly giving community, you're not just donating, you're building something eternal.\r\n\r\nAnn (10:47):\r\n\r\nAnd we'd be so honored to have you on the journey with us. We really would. So here's the question. Will you join us today?\r\n\r\nDave (10:56):\r\n\r\nI hope your answer is yes. And if it is, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can click the donate button right there and become a part of the monthly partner program.\r\n\r\nAnn (11:09):\r\n\r\nThis is FamilyLife Today and you're listening to Luke and Kristina Middendorf who are the presidents of FamilyLife. I remember one of our sons was, we were doing a series at church on discipleship, this whole idea, and he named it, do you remember this?\r\n\r\nDave (11:23):\r\n\r\nOh yeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (11:23):\r\n\r\nThe color of your dishes. And I'm like, \"What's that about?\" He goes\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (11:27):\r\n\r\nHe brought this idea to a teaching team planning like, \"Hey, let's do a series.\" And he called it something like, \"I want to know the color of dishes, or you should know the color of my dishes.\" We're all like, \"What are you talking about?\" He goes, \"Discipleship means you're in somebody's home and you know the color of the dishes.\"\r\n\r\nAnn (11:42):\r\n\r\nBecause you've eaten there.\r\n\r\nDave (11:43):\r\n\r\nWho's in your home? Who are you inviting? I'm like, \u201cThat's good.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (11:46):\r\n\r\nBut I will say you guys, the same thing. I feel like Dave and I were so fortunate. Cru is an amazing ministry. So when we're in college, we are both being discipled. I would meet with Kathy. She'd go through an hour with me of like, \"Here's your stuff and now I want you to give it away.\" So then I'd meet with my person that week and I'd just do the exact same thing that Kathy walked me through. And then we get married, then we're in ministry, it's so fun. And then we have children and suddenly Dave is out doing all his things and I'm by myself in my home.\r\n\r\nDave (12:23):\r\n\r\nAnd I get home, she's mad at me because I\u2019ve been out.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:25):\r\n\r\nI'm like, \"What am I-\"\r\n\r\nLuke (12:26):\r\n\r\nWe've never been there. Sorry about that. \r\n\r\nDave (12:31):\r\n\r\nNo, I heard a\u2014\r\n\r\nKristina (12:31):\r\n\r\nUnrelatable.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:32):\r\n\r\nI don't even know who I am at this point. And then I start putting the pressure on Dave like, \"You're not making me happy. You're not home enough. You're not talking to me.\" Not even thinking of he can't meet all of my needs. Jesus can, but I also need people.\r\n\r\nDave (12:50):\r\n\r\nOkay. So you've been there.\r\n\r\nKristina (12:52):\r\n\r\nMaybe.\r\n\r\nDave (12:52):\r\n\r\nLet's hear about it.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:54):\r\n\r\nDid you experience that too?\r\n\r\nKristina (12:56):\r\n\r\nOh, I had so much resentment and bitterness towards him in our early years of having kids.\r\n\r\nLuke (13:03):\r\n\r\nWhen we had our first and then our second kid, in a lot of ways, our professional life and ministry was taking off. There was more opportunities, more time to be spent working. We were working with athletes and coaches, and it was the time of my life. Our team was growing. There was just a lot of fruitfulness. And yet at home, it was very chaotic and we didn't really know what to do because we weren't giving people access to our life. It was so busy. Our second kid was dealing with some health issues, and it was difficult for us just to go day to day in a lot of ways. And our marriage was suffering. One good thing we did, going off of what you said, Dave, is we started to build a circle of people through our church. We joined a small group with some other married couples.\r\n\r\n(13:50):\r\n\r\nA couple of them were in ministry as well. And that was a good first step. Where things really started to change was when one of those couples began to spend time in our home and we began to spend time in their home. We learned so much from them, not just by the things they taught us, but their willingness to speak truth and grace into our lives.\r\n\r\nKristina (14:12):\r\n\r\nOur small group was going out to this small theater to see this show, and we'd had dinner all together at a restaurant and we were driving from the restaurant to the theater. And I was about to get in the car with Luke and my friend Sam said, \"No, no, no, you're coming with me. Luke can go with her husband.\" And I was like, \"Oh, fun. Girl time.\" She just cut right through it in the car and she said, \"Kristina, I love you and this is in love, but you are bitter and resentful towards your husband. And it is a pattern, but we've seen it for some time.\" I'd never, never in my life had someone be that direct with me before. \r\n\r\nAnn (14:56):\r\n\r\nDid you cry? What did you\u2014\r\n\r\nKristina (14:57):\r\n\r\nMy initial response was I was mad and then defensive. \r\n\r\nDave (15:02):\r\n\r\nLike I'm not bitter. \r\n\r\nAnn (15:03):\r\n\r\nYou don\u2019t know what I'm living.\r\n\r\nKristina (15:03):\r\n\r\nI\u2019ll tell you why I'm bitter and defensive. You have no idea. So that's like the 10-minute drive to the show. We're sitting through the show and then my heart softens and now I feel the shame, the sadness.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:18):\r\n\r\nConviction.\r\n\r\nKristina (15:18):\r\n\r\nThe conviction. And so then the drive home, we're separate again in cars and we both park on our street. We're in the car for hours parked on our street and I was weeping. I felt caught. I knew what she was saying was 100% true. There was also a part of me wanting to know, what is he saying to my imperfect husband? Because he is not saintly in this. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nGuess what? We all want to know. \r\n\r\nKristina:\r\n\r\nHe's not a saint, but the majority was my problem.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:50):\r\n\r\nA mirror was held up to you. Yes. I don't like those mirrors. \r\n\r\nDave (15:53):\r\n\r\nWhat was he saying to you?\r\n\r\nLuke (15:54):\r\n\r\nHe didn't say anything the first part of the drive, which is very typical of guys. We probably caught up about the sports game or the show we were going to see. But the second drive when we went from the theater back to our house is when he turned towards me. He showed up the mirror to me in the way I was prioritizing ministry and work over my spouse and seeing Kristina has real needs and you need to shift your time, your attention and your emotion towards her in this season and really attune to where she is at and prioritize her as God's gift to you. Even more so, what could you do to set her up well to grow in this season?\r\n\r\nKristina (16:39):\r\n\r\nAnd that was a hard choice for you to make because home was unpleasant. I'm negative. I'm cranky. I'm not sleeping well. The kids are little. I'm resentful. And he could go on campus and he was the guy. He was beloved. He'd get the accolades and the attention. No one had issues with him there. I needed to soften my heart towards him, but for him to move towards me when I am pokey and spiky and all my bitterness is out there, who wants to lean in and touch a cactus, right? Nobody does.\r\n\r\nDave (17:14):\r\n\r\nSo after that conversation, was there some major change?\r\n\r\nKristina (17:19):\r\n\r\nIt wasn't just one conversation. They committed to showing up for us, walking with us, spending time, the four of us together saying, \"How's it going a week later? How's it going a month later?\"\r\n\r\nLuke (17:30):\r\n\r\nI think we had a choice to make though. We could have said, \"Thanks for what you shared, but we're out. We don't want that. We'll figure this out on our own because it's not always fun to look in the mirror when you haven't looked in a while.\" And yet the commitment we made is we said, \"We need to lean in actually with each of these people individually, her with her friend, mine with this guy, and also as a couple.\" And we didn't know what that would look like because we had zero extra time. So we have to get creative in this season while our kids are young. I don't think they were even school age yet or maybe\u2014\r\n\r\nKristina (18:05):\r\n\r\nThey would come over during the day\u2014 \r\n\r\nLuke (18:07):\r\n\r\nDuring the day sometimes.\r\n\r\nKristina (18:07):\r\n\r\n\u2014when Brooks was at preschool and our older ones were in school.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:12):\r\n\r\nAnd if you're listening and if you have kids in preschool or haven't started school, I just want to remind you this is the hardest season of your life. And God didn't\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (18:21):\r\n\r\nIt's going to get better.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:22):\r\n\r\nYeah, it will get better, but he doesn't want you to do it alone. Proverbs 27:6, it says, \"The wounds of a friend are trustworthy, but the kisses of an enemy are excessive.\" Those were wounds at the time. Those were some hard truths, but boy, those were trustworthy and they helped change you guys.\r\n\r\nDave (18:42):\r\n\r\nAnd actually, I obviously don't know the couple, but that took courage.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:46):\r\n\r\nOh. \r\n\r\nDave (18:47):\r\n\r\nBecause sometimes you're afraid to say the hard thing. And also on the other side, it took humility for you guys to hear it and say, \"It's true. I need to own that and make changes.\" Because I've said things like that sometimes and it does not go well. \r\n\r\nAnn (19:01):\r\n\r\nYou lose the relationship.\r\n\r\nDave (19:02):\r\n\r\nThey're done with you.\r\n\r\nKristina (19:04):\r\n\r\nYeah. They knew. We all have our circles of influence, our sphere of people we know. We have a responsibility as believers to steward that. And so I really believe they felt before the Lord like it was an obedience issue for them to notice a sin pattern in people they loved and say, \"We need to point that out.\" It would've been disobedient for them to say, \"We'll just let that go. We'll pray for them. We'll just hope it gets okay because we don't want to lose the relationship.\" And because they took the risk, it for sure has helped me have courage to lean in with other people because I saw them do it well. She didn't beat around the bush, but she was kind and gracious. She was willing to share their own story. It wasn't pointing the finger shaming. It was a me too. And I'm really sad and we're nervous for you guys, but it was serious.\r\n\r\n(20:02):\r\n\r\nI just remember feeling the weight of this is a moment where either we lean in together or the separation just gets bigger.\r\n\r\nDave (20:13):\r\n\r\nSo you've talked about a mentor or somebody speaking and pouring into you. What about, because you just talked about you being a mentor to somebody else. So this is the Timothy part.\r\n\r\nKristina (20:23):\r\n\r\nYep.\r\n\r\nDave (20:23):\r\n\r\nThe Apostle Paul poured into his disciple, Timothy. What's that look like for you guys? So you're that couple now that's speaking life or correction into somebody else.\r\n\r\nLuke (20:33):\r\n\r\nWe've had the privilege of mentoring and discipling a lot of different people over the years, but as Kristina said, it's very tempting to keep it in a box to say, \"I'm going to meet with you at this coffee shop or in a locker room in sports ministry or wherever, and you're just talking about the Word or you're just talking about one part of their life.\" And there's something that really shifts when you get access into that person's life or they get access into your life. And so even in our previous season before we moved to Florida and moved to FamilyLife, there were a couple of couples that were in our lives that we thought, what would it look like to actually invite them into our home on a more regular basis?\r\n\r\nAnn (21:17):\r\n\r\nTo see the color of your dishes.\r\n\r\nLuke (21:19):\r\n\r\nTo see the color of the dishes and the good and the bad of our own parenting, our own\u2014we've seen growth in our marriage, but it's nowhere near perfect. We still have those days where we go back to the patterns of overwork, overprioritizing ministry or resentment and to say, \"Actually, that might be what they need to see.\r\n\r\n(21:40):\r\n\r\nThey don't necessarily need to see our perfection. They need to see us being an example.\" And what we talk about all the time is we're not called to be perfect examples. We are called to be living examples. With one of the couples I'm thinking about, we just took the initiative and say, \"Hey, you guys have been asking for time with us. Here's what we can offer you in this next season. Why don't you come over to our house once a month, I think it was, and the floor is yours. You can ask us questions that you have about parenting your young kids. You can ask us about ministry or your professional life, and we're committed in that hour and a half, two hours for you, for your marriage.\" There wasn't even specific content we went through, but for this couple, that's exactly what they needed.\r\n\r\n(22:26):\r\n\r\nThey right away took us up on it and for the next year or two, it wasn't every month too, sometimes we missed, but that was so good for them, probably even better for us to say they're going to watch us putting our kids to bed, the ups and the downs of that whole experience and actually learn from watching our lives, not just what we teach them.\r\n\r\nDave (22:47):\r\n\r\nHow would you encourage somebody to find somebody ahead of them that they could reach out to and say, \"Man, I'd love it if you could pour into me.\" How would you encourage somebody to do that?\r\n\r\nLuke (22:57):\r\n\r\nThere's probably people in your life already that you might not be aware of. The first step really is you have to get involved in your local church. There's a pool of people there. And again, as you said, Ann, they're not perfect.\r\n\r\n(23:10):\r\n\r\nThey're probably not people you want to put on the pedestal, but they might be just one stage of life ahead of you, one season of life, maybe a few years ahead or decades ahead. There's people that you know already who you could invite into your life or even say, \"Hey, I'd like to see your life and watch how do you make decisions? How do you think about finances or parenting or grandparenting, any of those things?\" And so start with the people you already know and be thinking about what's something that I need to grow in in this season or that we need to grow in as a couple that we could ask them to help us. So it starts with that posture of humility and saying we need help. Who's already in our life? You don't have to necessarily go online and do a Google search or who are mentors in my community.\r\n\r\n(23:58):\r\n\r\nThat could be a route, but my guess is God has already put some couples or individuals in your life that you could initiate with and say, \"Hey, we need help. Could you help us in this next season?\"\r\n\r\nAnn (24:13):\r\n\r\nThis is our passion, isn't it?\r\n\r\nDave (24:16):\r\n\r\nYeah. Discipleship. I hope it's every follower of Christ's passion. And Luke and Kristina, man, this is their passion. It is. And for them to be leading FamilyLife, that is a real blessing that that is who we are and where we're going. We're doing the work of Jesus to make disciples through a thing called the family, through marriage and family. And guess what? They're going to be back with us tomorrow, so you don't want to miss. It gets even richer. See you tomorrow.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae ministry; 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/318722","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=318722"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/295627"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=318722"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=318722"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=318722"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=318722"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=318722"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=318722"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}