{"id":318477,"date":"2026-06-18T05:16:26","date_gmt":"2026-06-18T09:16:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel\/"},"modified":"2026-06-18T05:16:27","modified_gmt":"2026-06-18T09:16:27","slug":"engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel\/","title":{"rendered":"Engagement over Ease: How Men Avoid Passivity and Choose Presence&#8211;Dads Panel"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Ready to ditch your favorite fatherhood and marriage excuses? This panel of dads can change the way you show up at home\u2014with small moves, real accountability, and no more hiding behind busyness or autopilot. Dave Wilson, along with Brian Goins, Jorge Rosario, Daron George, and Bruce Goff share about honest failures, practical accountability, and a push to choose engagement over ease.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>On FamilyLife Today, Dave Wilson hosts a men&#8217;s panel on men\u2019s panel discussing their battle to avoid passivity in marriage and parenting.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":295627,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/26461a2e-3247-40cd-9dfe-b464014c204d\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.85M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2837],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[11521],"cwp_profile":[3274,11522,3595],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-318477","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fathers","podcast_series-dads-panel-a-gritty-guide-to-balancing-work-and-family","cwp_profile-brian-goins","cwp_profile-daron-george","cwp_profile-jorge-rosario","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/318477\/engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/318477\/engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"rWRwT4QDvd\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel\/\">Engagement over Ease: How Men Avoid Passivity and Choose Presence&#8211;Dads Panel<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel\/embed\/#?secret=rWRwT4QDvd\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Engagement over Ease: How Men Avoid Passivity and Choose Presence&#8211;Dads Panel&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"rWRwT4QDvd\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["26461a2e-3247-40cd-9dfe-b464014c204d"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/26461a2e-3247-40cd-9dfe-b464014c204d\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:24:55"],"filesize":["22.85M"],"_thumbnail_id":["295627"],"show_notes":["\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/group-studies\/companion-workbooks\/\">Host a high-impact church event without starting from scratch by using code STRONGFAMILIES<\/a> between June 16\u201330 to get a FREE video-based study and planning support when you buy 10+ workbooks go to shop.familylife.com<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/parenting\/for-dads\/\">Find resources for Dad's on our shop<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nEngagement over Ease: How Men Avoid Passivity and Choose Presence\r\n\r\nGuests:Daron George, Jorge Rosario, Brian Goins\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Dad\u2019s Panel: A Gritty Guide to Balancing Work and Family \r\n\r\n(Day 2 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:June 18, 2026\r\n\r\nBrian (00:04):\r\n\r\nWe got a call from a mom basically outing one of our kids.\r\n\r\nJorge (00:09):\r\n\r\nWow.\r\n\r\nBrian (00:10):\r\n\r\nAnd man, you talk about embarrassing. And you're starting, thinking about your perception management and you're in ministry and all this kind of stuff, and you're feeling all that and all you feel is anger. How could my kid do this to me? And it's like you got to step back from that and go, \u201cWe all do that.\u201d So now how do I move through that chaos and connect them to a Savior?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:39):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave (00:45):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Dave Wilson and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nAll right. We got the men's panel back in the studio. We got Brian and Jorge and Daron and talking about marriage, talking about being dads. I just spoke at a men's conference in New York. I said to these men, and I never said it quite like this before, I said, \"I don't think we have a toxic masculinity problem. We have a toxic passivity problem.\" And they cheered.\r\n\r\nDaron (01:24):\r\n\r\nThat's a good word.\r\n\r\nDave (01:25):\r\n\r\nI got a reaction. I'm like, something connected with that. And again, I'm not saying toxic masculinity is not a thing. It's a thing. \r\n\r\nJorge (01:32):\r\n\r\nIt is a thing. Yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (01:32):\r\n\r\nYou power up and you control. That is ridiculous. But I think guys in the room resonated with, I am not as active in my family, my parenting, my marriage as I should be. Maybe I've even heard that in different ways from my wife. So answer this question. How do we step out? I always talk about four pillars of manhood. The R for real man, is a real man rejects passivity. And I try to say passivity's in there. It was in Adam and we can rip on Adam in the garden. And then we look in the mirror and go, \"I'm as bad as Adam.\" So when we feel it in us, we have to reject it and push it down and act. What's that look like for you guys?\r\n\r\nDaron (02:12):\r\n\r\nSo I think for me it's intentionality. And I think one of the ways I get passive is I got so many other things I could be doing right now. I'll just let that go and then I'll get to it when I can. Those things I've noticed in me that if I start doing that, they need my attention. And so I try to be intentional about those things. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nStep into it. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nStep into it.\r\n\r\nBrian (02:32):\r\n\r\nDaron's really responsible. He\u2019s like \u201cI could be doing\u2014so many other things I could be doing right now.\u201d I always think there's so many different things I could be watching right now.\r\n\r\nDaron (02:39):\r\n\r\nNo, what else could I be doing.\r\n\r\nBrian (02:41):\r\n\r\nI could be thinking about all the leisure things I can be doing.\r\n\r\n(02:44):\r\n\r\nBut I think it is intentionality. I think a lot of it is just systems too. It's like figuring out what are those regular habits that I just keep consistently in my life. Like for me and Jen praying together. It wasn't anything magical. It was one, just admitting, \u201cI don't really want to do this. I'm not really excited about this. I'm not drawn to this.\u201d And being okay with that and just admitting it. But we bought these two new chairs, and we sat them together and we were having coffee in the morning. Jen put a list together and we just started praying through the list.\r\n\r\nJorge (03:15):\r\n\r\nWow.\r\n\r\nBrian (03:15):\r\n\r\nStarted out maybe five minutes a day and we don't hit every day, but it's like most days in a week if we're in those chairs and we're having coffee together, one of us will say, \"All right, you ready to pray?\" And just that list and that system has helped us. So I think there's got to be something in place. Otherwise, I think my tendency is just to pull back.\r\n\r\nDaron (03:33):\r\n\r\nOh yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (03:34):\r\n\r\nYeah. Is there any sense that you need accountability?\r\n\r\nBrian (03:37):\r\n\r\nOh yeah.\r\n\r\nDaron (03:37):\r\n\r\nOh, 100%.\r\n\r\nDave (03:38):\r\n\r\nWhether it's your wife or another guy or group of guys, what's that look like in your life? Do you have that?\r\n\r\nDaron (03:43):\r\n\r\nI have two guys in my life. I'm thinking about them right now that they do that. They know my life inside and out. They're those people that can say what needs to be said and I got to swallow it. We started out meeting for coffee and all that. Now it's just really organic. It's a text message; it's a phone call. And for whatever reason, man, the Holy Spirit talks to them. They'll call me at the right time like, \"Hey, what are you doing right now?\" \"Well, you just caught me and I'm sitting here,\u201d and they're like, \u201cWhy? You should be doing this. You said you're going to do this or checking in on my family.\" So it started out intentional now and became really organic that I expect a message from them at least two to three times a day.\r\n\r\nDave (04:18):\r\n\r\nReally?\r\n\r\nDaron (04:18):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (04:19):\r\n\r\nMan, you must really need help, huh? \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nOh, I do, man. I do. I'm telling you. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nWe all do. That's the truth. We really do.\r\n\r\nJorge (04:25):\r\n\r\nThe community aspect of living in the body is new to me because I've just been a loner. I've always just been like I know mentally I need people. It wasn't a reality in my life. The past couple years I have a circle of men who, not two, three times a day, but yeah, regularly we check in on each other and it's something that I'm learning not just mentally, but now it's a part of my walk to live in community and it is. It's been this huge benefit in my life where men can actually check me. I got some pastors that will check me and say, yeah, like you said, \u201cJorge, what are you doing?\" And yeah, it's been transformational. It's been challenging because I still hate it. I don't like it. Yeah. \r\n\r\nDaron (05:13):\r\n\r\nThere are days I don't want it.\r\n\r\nJorge (05:14):\r\n\r\nYeah. Yeah, man. But it's needed. And also living life with other married couples that want the same thing for their marriages and for their parenting.\r\n\r\nDaron (05:23):\r\n\r\nYeah. That is so important.\r\n\r\nDave (05:25):\r\n\r\nYeah, I know. I'm guessing you guys experienced this when you don't want to go to the gym and then you go. Usually when you're walking out, not every time, but nine out of ten times for me, I'm walking out going, \"I'm glad I did it.\" \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nOh yeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nI didn't want to. I sort of walked in like\u2014next thing you know I get into it, it's an hour and hour and a half later and I'm walking out going, \u201cThat's a good thing.\u201d And that's why we need men in our lives because a lot of times I wouldn't go to the gym by myself, but if there's a guy there, I'm going to do it, that type of thing. I mean, I think that passivity Is a big deal.\r\n\r\nBrian (05:54):\r\n\r\nI feel that way, especially about the conversations that I know I need to have with my kids that I just don't want to have. I sat down with Gibson the other day. We were playing racquetball and there was something that just made me want to check him how he's doing with his phone, what he's looking at, you know the stuff. He's a 17-year-old boy. I hadn't asked him in a while, and I wanted to see where he's at and it's like I don't want to start that conversation because I'd rather just be\u2014I feel like we're doing good. We played a good game. It was fun. I'd rather be fun and harmonious than intimate, especially with my kids because I want them to like me at the end of the day.\r\n\r\nJorge (06:33):\r\n\r\nAnd it's easier.\r\n\r\nBrian (06:33):\r\n\r\nIt is easier. But I always feel better after.\r\n\r\nDave (06:37):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nBrian (06:38):\r\n\r\nAnd I think it's like what you're saying about working out.\r\n\r\nDave (06:39):\r\n\r\nBut you said the word, those conversations. I didn't have daughters, so I don't know if it's different with girls. \r\n\r\nJorge (06:45):\r\n\r\nI don't have daughters either. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nI got one.\r\n\r\nDave (06:46):\r\n\r\nBut those conversations where you step into something that's a little tense like the phone or whatever, those are intimate. And there's part of me that's like, \"I don't want that kind of intimacy. I'll just avoid it,\u201d and then we're good and we're smiling and the moment's gone. And if I look back on regrets, it's like those moments when you feel the nudge of the Spirit, I think it's the Spirit of God saying, \u201cStep in here,\u201d and you don't, we all know because we're old enough to know those are gone and they're gone forever.\r\n\r\nJorge (07:13):\r\n\r\nI was just wanting to follow up on what you said about that relationship with the Holy Spirit because a lot of times I think with the accountability partners piece of it, we tend to prioritize that relationship as the only source of accountability. For me, this relationship that we have with the Holy Spirit, the conviction piece of the spirit of God literally saying to me, \"Do you love your wife?\" And me looking in the mirror, I've done this, look in the mirror, \u201cDo I love my wife?\u201d Then do something. It's this conviction that the Holy Spirit just regularly does, routinely does. So that's also part of what accountability looks like, I think. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nYeah, it's good. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nYeah. Not just let me call a friend, which is important, but I just don't want to minimize the Holy Spirit's work.\r\n\r\nDaron (07:56):\r\n\r\nAnd I think it's mainly when you're not listening. The Holy Spirit has told you a couple of times, \u201cOkay, you\u2019re going to keep ignoring me? I got something for you.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (08:05):\r\n\r\nAll right. I want you to brag. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nWhat? \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nSee, that's my specialty.\r\n\r\nDave (08:08):\r\n\r\nYeah, go for it. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nI'm here for it. I\u2019m the best.\r\n\r\nDave (08:10):\r\n\r\nGive me one or maybe two things you've done right. Let's start with parenting. As a dad, I did this one right or I'm doing it right.\r\n\r\nJorge (08:23):\r\n\r\nI just started doing it, right? \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nYesterday? \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nAgain, back to what we were talking about earlier, the vulnerability piece, like confessing my sins to my children. Often, we read that passage in James, confess your sins one to another. We don't think about the kids. You said real men. Real men confess their sins. \r\n\r\nDave (08:42):\r\n\r\nAnd you know what it says in James 5, that you just quoted.\r\n\r\nJorge (08:46):\r\n\r\nYes. \r\n\r\nDave (08:46):\r\n\r\nConfess your sins to one another so that what?\r\n\r\nJorge (08:48):\r\n\r\nWe pray for another and be healed.\r\n\r\nDave (08:51):\r\n\r\nYeah, I mean, it's like you confess your sins to God for forgiveness and you receive it. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nExactly. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nBut the healing part, isn't that interesting that it says it's a human being. You don't hide that. And you're saying doing it with your kids.\r\n\r\nJorge (09:02):\r\n\r\nDoing it with your kids, which is a foreign concept to me, maybe to most believers. We think of confession toward other adult men that are in the same\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (09:13):\r\n\r\nHey, I want to hear from you guys on this one, but before we go there, I want to ask this from all three of you guys. Hey, and Bruce, we got the young dad in there. \r\n\r\nBrian (09:20):\r\n\r\nYeah, we got him. He's got plenty of time.\r\n\r\nDave (09:21):\r\n\r\nYou can jump in on this too.\r\n\r\nBrian (09:22):\r\n\r\nHe can confess a lot of sins.\r\n\r\nDave (09:23):\r\n\r\nI want to know this. Is there a limit to the confession? Is there a line you shouldn't go over? I remember when our youngest was in the house and the other two were off to college. His name's Cody. He's sitting there as like a junior in high school. Nobody's at the table except Ann, me, and Cody. And he looks at us the first week and goes, \"So did you guys ever have sex before marriage?\"\r\n\r\nDaron (09:49):\r\n\r\nOh, I'd answer that in a heartbeat.\r\n\r\nJorge (09:50):\r\n\r\nI would.\r\n\r\nDave (09:51):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm like, \"Here it is.\" And I mean, we looked at Ann, I looked at her like, \"How honest should we be?\" I don't want him to go, \"Oh, look where you are now, so no big deal.\u201d Or do I lie? So it was like how\u2014 \r\n\r\nJorge (10:04):\r\n\r\nThose are your options.\r\n\r\nDave (10:08):\r\n\r\nI said, I got to go to the bathroom.\r\n\r\nBrian (10:09):\r\n\r\nAnd Ann, what did she answer?\r\n\r\nDave (10:11):\r\n\r\nNo, we were honest. We were honest. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nThat's good. And that aspect of our life was before we were followers of Christ.\r\n\r\n(10:18):\r\n\r\nAnd after we became followers of Christ, it really became an issue like, \"This has got to stop.\" And it did. And I wasn't even dating Ann at that time, but we started dating as we're believers. So I told him the full thing, but there was a catch in my spirit. I've had other mentors say, \"No, you don't need to go there. Just keep some of that\u2014you don't share everything,\u201d so that's why I asked. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nThat's a good question. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nAnd some of it's you have brothers you can ask and the Holy Spirit, but you got to decide how honest you're going to be. All right, go back. What did I say? Oh, brag. What\u2019s something you\u2019ve done right?\r\n\r\nBrian (10:48):\r\n\r\nWe're going back to bragging now. Okay. I thought we were still on, how much do I confess? \r\n\r\nDave (10:51):\r\n\r\nYou want to go there?\r\n\r\nBrian (10:53):\r\n\r\nI can go everywhere you want. \r\n\r\nDave (10:54):\r\n\r\nGo there. I want to hear what you guys think about that.\r\n\r\nBrian (10:54):\r\n\r\nI definitely think, I think the more that you can lead with vulnerability, I don't think you have to always give all the details, but I think I encourage a lot of dads, especially with pornography, when they start talking to their kids about it, you've got to lead with your story because otherwise they'll own their own shame. And so it's like, how do I bring the shame into the light and realize that I'm not beholden, but there is no condemnation for those of us who are in Christ Jesus. And so I can share my story, whatever that shame might be, and obviously at age-appropriate times, but there's times where they need to hear it. So I think being real with, especially when you mess up with your wife or where you take her for granted or when you're having a yelling match, I mean, to be able to apologize in that moment and come back and say, \"I blew it.\r\n\r\n(11:40):\r\n\r\nI blew it.\u201d\r\n\r\nDaron (11:42):\r\n\r\nSo I have the same answer for both those questions. I am extremely open with my kids, so they know this. There are certain questions they won\u2019t ask me because they don't want the answer to and I'm okay with that because I told them and if they are too young to hear it, I'll tell them, I said, \"You too young to hear it right now, but I will let you know one day.\" And I think that leads to the one thing that I think I've done really well, that's something that I've never had modeled, but I really wanted modeled in my own life is that I apologize to my kids when I\u2019m wrong.\r\n\r\nJorge (12:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's really good.\r\n\r\nDaron (12:08):\r\n\r\nI do. And that is the hardest apology that I ever have to give because number one, they're my kids. Number two, I don't want to apologize to them. Why am I telling you sorry? I don't want to say sorry to you. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nRight. You don\u2019t pay no rent.\r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nYou should be listening to me. But no, but so if I feel like I've done them wrong, I will immediately apologize.\r\n\r\nDave (12:23):\r\n\r\nHow about\u2014 \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nI got one. \r\n\r\nDaron (12:25):\r\n\r\nThat hurts.\r\n\r\nBrian (12:26):\r\n\r\nWe hear enough about you, Dave. \r\n\r\nDave (12:28):\r\n\r\nNo, I wasn't going to tell mine. \r\n\r\nBrian (12:29):\r\n\r\nThat's right. You ready to brag again? I get it. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nI like bragging. Ann\u2019s not here. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nI was going to brag on my wife for a second. I think that we've done mundane well and so much of life is just mundane. I was about to say, \u201cOh, we've done vacations well,\u201d and it's like that. But I think the reality of just having dinner around the table five nights a week.\r\n\r\nDaron (12:50):\r\n\r\nI'm learning that right there. My wife loves that and I'm an extremely spontaneous person. I'll wake up in the morning like, \u201cOkay, let's go on a trip.\u201d She'll have fun with that, but she does not enjoy that. What brings her comfort and peace is the mundane.\r\n\r\nDave (13:02):\r\n\r\nYou guys do five nights a week?\r\n\r\nBrian (13:04):\r\n\r\nWhen our kids weren't off doing a ton of activity, like athletics and stuff like that, but in general, I would say four nights a week, I'd say pretty confidently four nights a week we're having dinner together.\r\n\r\nJorge (13:15):\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nDave (13:16):\r\n\r\nWay to go.\r\n\r\nJorge (13:17):\r\n\r\nYeah, way to go.\r\n\r\nBrian (13:17):\r\n\r\nNo, but I think that's not everybody but is there anything that's in your life that's like that consistent? And those dinners aren't magical. I mean, we're still washing dishes, but that's the other thing I'd say is just, are you washing dishes? Are you doing chores together? So much of life is mundane. So if you can do the mundane well and I think your kids get into this\u2014 Now, we have my daughter who's calling and she's telling Jen, she's like, \"I'm going to surprise Connor. They're newlyweds, so everything's a surprise. I'm going to surprise him tonight by showing a new candle and whatever.\" It's like, I don't want to hear all that right now, but she's like, \"Yeah, I'm going to surprise him with this meal tonight.\" And so you just go, \"That's life is around this table.\" \r\n\r\nDave (13:55):\r\n\r\nThere was a study, I don't know if you ever saw it years ago, University of Michigan study that said, \"What are the commonalities in families that raise adult kids that turn out very, very healthy?\" You know what it was? Their conclusion was one thing, four nights a week at the dinner table\u2014\r\n\r\nBrian (14:13):\r\n\r\nThere we go.\r\n\r\nJorge (14:14):\r\n\r\nWell, good. Man, I'm going to add that to my list.\r\n\r\nDaron (14:15):\r\n\r\nI'm doing something else well. We can go with it.\r\n\r\nBrian (14:19):\r\n\r\nI wish I could say I read the study. I just listened to my wife.\r\n\r\nDave (14:24):\r\n\r\nThat's a fascinating\u2014you think about it. It's a fascinating answer. Like, wait, I thought it would be they taught this, they did this. No, they sat around a table, they looked in each other's eyes and they did\u2014and I tell you what, this world we're living in, most families don't. Sports, different activities, which are all important. I remember when our three boys were playing high school football, Ann said, \"Okay, you're not home at six o'clock. We're waiting until 8:00 PM and we're having dinner together as a family.\"\r\n\r\nAnn (14:54):\r\n\r\nHey, we're hearing from many pastors that couples in their churches aren't falling apart, but they're not really truly connecting either and there's this quiet drift happening\r\n\r\nDave (15:05):\r\n\r\nAnd I know you see it happen because we see it happen every week and you know marriages need support without making things complicated. If you've thought about running a marriage or parenting event but didn't want to build everything from scratch, this is one of the simplest ways to do it.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:22):\r\n\r\nSo when you purchase 10 or more workbooks, you'll get the full video-based study included plus planning support; and many churches have used this as a great on ramp for vertical marriage and we've seen really strong impact in couples' lives. Our team is ready to help you host it.\r\n\r\nDave (15:41):\r\n\r\nHere's what you do. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and just click on the link in the show notes and enter the discount code StrongFamilies. And that's one word; StrongFamilies.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:50):\r\n\r\nBecause strong families don't happen by accident. And I think you know that, but sometimes all it takes is one intentional step to help couples reconnect again.\r\n\r\nDave (16:01):\r\n\r\nSo let us help you take that step. \r\n\r\nAll right, Bruce, we're throwing it into the sound\u2014\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (16:09):\r\n\r\nControl room.\r\n\r\nDave (16:10):\r\n\r\nControl room. Yeah, we're throwing it into the control room. What do you got?\r\n\r\nJorge (16:13):\r\n\r\nHe's good at control.\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (16:13):\r\n\r\nI'm just thinking about the confession and the bragging and what Brian said reminded me that it's kind of you can get both. When we confess to our kids, we have no need to fear, oh no, this sin I'm about to confess is too big. You know what I mean? Like you're saying, we don't need to go into all the details, but there is no sin too big because you get to brag on Jesus. It's like, \u201cYeah, kids, look how bad this sin was,\u201d whatever it was. There is no need to fear because you can brag on Jesus and say, \"Yeah, that sin was bad, but look at the Savior we've got.\" Shame is gone. Sin is gone. We confess to that and we're free and what a model that is to our kids. Who should bring a charge against God's elect? Nobody. So we can say that freely.\r\n\r\n(17:01):\r\n\r\nPretty awesome. My oldest is 10, so far, the questions haven't been too hard. I can say that easily but check back in another six years. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nBrian (17:10):\r\n\r\nWell, you got your age group, Bruce, all 10 and younger. Brag on something that you guys, any habits that you guys have that you\u2014 \r\n\r\nDave (17:19):\r\n\r\nThey do so many things.\r\n\r\nBrian (17:20):\r\n\r\nI know they do. I know they do great stuff. Come on.\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (17:22):\r\n\r\nMostly my wife. I mean, she's amazing.\r\n\r\nDave (17:24):\r\n\r\nBrag on her.\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (17:25):\r\n\r\nShe homeschools. So I'm getting ready in the morning and I'm overhearing, they're going through the new city catechism: \u201cWhy did God create us?\u201d and all this stuff. And the girls are sitting there singing. It's incredible to see their mom just bringing them up and Proverbs 31 talks about her husband, this virtuous woman, her husband trusts in her. And man, what a beautiful thing to see her raising them up in the faith.\r\n\r\nDaron (17:51):\r\n\r\nI realized during the COVID time that I cannot homeschool my kids. It is something I wanted to do. And then I almost killed\u2014 \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nDid you try? \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nOh, I tried.\r\n\r\nDave (18:01):\r\n\r\nSo what would you guys say to a guy like Bruce and I'm talking season of life. They've got young kids. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nA lot of things I want to say to Bruce. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYou all have older kids. They want to do fathering well. They want to be the husband. If you had 30 minutes with him at lunch, what would you say?\r\n\r\nDaron (18:20):\r\n\r\nOne of the biggest lessons that I wish I would have learned earlier is that achievement is not everything. That was really, really hard for me to learn. As someone who is driven and who likes to accomplish things and knock things off of a list, achievement is not everything because once you achieve it, sometimes I feel empty. I'm like, \"Man, I did all this work to get here and what for? \" \r\n\r\nDave (18:38):\r\n\r\nIf achievement isn't everything, what is?\r\n\r\nDaron (18:41):\r\n\r\nThere we go. So I think it is learning about the journey and the process of bringing my family with me is what is actually helped me want to achieve more, but this time it's different. It's not me achieving for the sake of achievement. It\u2019s I want my family along with me. I want my kids to see the things that I'm doing. Why? Because I want them to know that you can do these things. I want to do these things with my wife. Why? So that when she looks back, she's like, \"Man, you know what? We did these things together.\" We did the same thing with school. My first degree, she's like, \"Man, we did this together.\u201d \u201cYeah, we sure did do this together. I couldn't do it without you.\" Raising the kids, we do those things together. And it brings this cohesiveness to our family that they're like, \"Man, if my dad can do this,\" because they know where I come from.\r\n\r\n(19:19):\r\n\r\nThey know my history and they're like, \"Man, Dad.\" And their favorite thing is to make fun of me. They love it. They're like, \"Dad, I was never as bad as you. \" And I said, \"You're right and don't try it. Don't try it.\" But achievement by itself is not\u2014it's not everything. It's not everything because you can get there and still be lonely. And the thing is just bringing my family with me and that's changed the whole game for me. It's fun now.\r\n\r\nDave (19:41):\r\n\r\nJorge, what about you? What would you say to a young dad?\r\n\r\nJorge (19:43):\r\n\r\nThere's a lot of pressure to get this thing done right, right? Parenting. Just trust God with your kids. So yeah, be intentional about teaching your children. You're going to fail from time to time. Don't be so hard on yourself and learn from other good dads\u2014\r\n\r\nDaron (20:01):\r\n\r\nFailure's baked in.\r\n\r\nJorge (20:02):\r\n\r\n\u2014not me, Bruce. \r\n\r\nDaron (20:05):\r\n\r\nFor sure. Well, you're baked in. You\u2019re going to fail. Get ready for that. It's okay.\r\n\r\nJorge (20:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, not to minimize sin. \r\n\r\nControl room - Bruce:\r\n\r\nOh, for sure. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nBecause that's not okay. But the kids need to know, deal aggressively with your sin. Confession is a part of that, but also just get up. Righteous man falls seven times but gets back up and just keep running this race. It's a daily grind and we have a hope. I think that's like the beautiful gospel demonstration. I demonstrate the gospel to my kids now when before they thought I was perfect.\r\n\r\nBrian (20:40):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (20:40):\r\n\r\nBrian, you got one?\r\n\r\nBrian (20:41):\r\n\r\nI think we're all hitting it in the same sense. There is no perfect parent. You think about, who is the most perfect father in all of eternity\u2014is Father God and look how his kids turned out. And I think for me, I would probably say, we already said a lot of good stuff about being intentional and confessing and really getting in a few good habits. But I think some for me is just the perspective of my goal isn't just for my kids to make my life easier. That my life will be better. And there is some great wisdom to\u2014Proverb talks about when you discipline your children, it will give their parents rest. There is a lot of truth to that, and you want to be a good, disciplined parent, but recognizing that they are working out their own sin. And so to not be surprised when they break your heart, because they will break your heart; and they will break it in ways that allow you to connect with the heart of the Father because you think, how often does God feel this?\r\n\r\n(21:42):\r\n\r\nIf He truly loves us the way He says He does. And that He's a personal God. And to see, how many times have I been wayward today in my thoughts? So you multiply that by billions.\r\n\r\n(21:53):\r\n\r\nAnd for God to be broken. I would just say it's like; it's going to happen. Feel the brokenness. It hurts. In your own heart, feel the hurt, feel the pain, and then go, okay, then how do we move forward and go, how do I love them in such a way that God loves me? \r\n\r\nDave (22:10):\r\n\r\nSo something happened in you when you said that.\r\n\r\nBrian (22:12):\r\n\r\nYou just replay, you pray the conversations where my daughter in college just working on her own sinful nature and you get shocked and you go, \"That's not how we raised you. And that's not how you've presented yourself to us.\u201d And then you find out the real story. My son in high school and catching him with weed again and how do you deal with in that moment, how do you bring him back to God? The goal isn't to make my life better in this moment or to be embarrassed because of how he\u2014we got a call from a mom, basically, outing one of our kids and man, you talk about embarrassing. And you're starting, thinking about your perception management and you're in ministry and all this kind of stuff and you're feeling all that and all you feel is anger. Like, \u201cHow could my kid do this to me?\u201d\r\n\r\n(23:05):\r\n\r\nAnd it's like you got to step back from that and go, \u201cWe all do that. So now how do I draw them back to God in this moment?\u201d Still give them discipline. They got to have consequences, right?\r\n\r\nDave (23:15):\r\n\r\nYep.\r\n\r\nBrian (23:16):\r\n\r\nBut my goal isn't to make my life better now and more orderly from what the chaos that they just brought in. My goal now is to move through that chaos and connect them to a Savior and leave that impression.\r\n\r\nDave (23:42):\r\n\r\nAll right. Another great day with these three guys. Man, I think this is some stuff that literally can change your legacy and we're going to be back tomorrow. We're going to do one more day with these guys, but if we can help you, just go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp and we will give you resources that'll help you be the dad and mom you want to be.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:02):\r\n\r\nOur vision at FamilyLife is every home, a godly home, and we need your help to get there. And when you become a FamilyLife Partner, your monthly support makes that vision actually possible.\r\n\r\nDave (24:15):\r\n\r\nYeah, you'll get access to exclusive updates and events and the chance to join our partner's only online community. But more than that, you're helping change the future of families. So the question is, will you come alongside us and alongside families in need?\r\n\r\nAnn (24:31):\r\n\r\nAnd you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and read more about it and become a partner. Just click the donate button at the top and again, you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nDave (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae ministry, 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-06-18.pdf"],"ssp_guid":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/engagement-over-ease-how-men-avoid-passivity-and-choose-presence-dads-panel\/"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1781775956;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg",1024,1024,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret Coyle","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coyle-a9eb952f\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"On FamilyLife Today, Dave Wilson hosts a men's panel on men\u2019s panel discussing their battle to avoid passivity in marriage and parenting.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/group-studies\/companion-workbooks\/\">Host a high-impact church event without starting from scratch by using code STRONGFAMILIES<\/a> between June 16\u201330 to get a FREE video-based study and planning support when you buy 10+ workbooks go to shop.familylife.com<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/parenting\/for-dads\/\">Find resources for Dad's on our shop<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-06-18.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nEngagement over Ease: How Men Avoid Passivity and Choose Presence\r\n\r\nGuests:Daron George, Jorge Rosario, Brian Goins\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Dad\u2019s Panel: A Gritty Guide to Balancing Work and Family \r\n\r\n(Day 2 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:June 18, 2026\r\n\r\nBrian (00:04):\r\n\r\nWe got a call from a mom basically outing one of our kids.\r\n\r\nJorge (00:09):\r\n\r\nWow.\r\n\r\nBrian (00:10):\r\n\r\nAnd man, you talk about embarrassing. And you're starting, thinking about your perception management and you're in ministry and all this kind of stuff, and you're feeling all that and all you feel is anger. How could my kid do this to me? And it's like you got to step back from that and go, \u201cWe all do that.\u201d So now how do I move through that chaos and connect them to a Savior?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:39):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave (00:45):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Dave Wilson and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nAll right. We got the men's panel back in the studio. We got Brian and Jorge and Daron and talking about marriage, talking about being dads. I just spoke at a men's conference in New York. I said to these men, and I never said it quite like this before, I said, \"I don't think we have a toxic masculinity problem. We have a toxic passivity problem.\" And they cheered.\r\n\r\nDaron (01:24):\r\n\r\nThat's a good word.\r\n\r\nDave (01:25):\r\n\r\nI got a reaction. I'm like, something connected with that. And again, I'm not saying toxic masculinity is not a thing. It's a thing. \r\n\r\nJorge (01:32):\r\n\r\nIt is a thing. Yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (01:32):\r\n\r\nYou power up and you control. That is ridiculous. But I think guys in the room resonated with, I am not as active in my family, my parenting, my marriage as I should be. Maybe I've even heard that in different ways from my wife. So answer this question. How do we step out? I always talk about four pillars of manhood. The R for real man, is a real man rejects passivity. And I try to say passivity's in there. It was in Adam and we can rip on Adam in the garden. And then we look in the mirror and go, \"I'm as bad as Adam.\" So when we feel it in us, we have to reject it and push it down and act. What's that look like for you guys?\r\n\r\nDaron (02:12):\r\n\r\nSo I think for me it's intentionality. And I think one of the ways I get passive is I got so many other things I could be doing right now. I'll just let that go and then I'll get to it when I can. Those things I've noticed in me that if I start doing that, they need my attention. And so I try to be intentional about those things. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nStep into it. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nStep into it.\r\n\r\nBrian (02:32):\r\n\r\nDaron's really responsible. He\u2019s like \u201cI could be doing\u2014so many other things I could be doing right now.\u201d I always think there's so many different things I could be watching right now.\r\n\r\nDaron (02:39):\r\n\r\nNo, what else could I be doing.\r\n\r\nBrian (02:41):\r\n\r\nI could be thinking about all the leisure things I can be doing.\r\n\r\n(02:44):\r\n\r\nBut I think it is intentionality. I think a lot of it is just systems too. It's like figuring out what are those regular habits that I just keep consistently in my life. Like for me and Jen praying together. It wasn't anything magical. It was one, just admitting, \u201cI don't really want to do this. I'm not really excited about this. I'm not drawn to this.\u201d And being okay with that and just admitting it. But we bought these two new chairs, and we sat them together and we were having coffee in the morning. Jen put a list together and we just started praying through the list.\r\n\r\nJorge (03:15):\r\n\r\nWow.\r\n\r\nBrian (03:15):\r\n\r\nStarted out maybe five minutes a day and we don't hit every day, but it's like most days in a week if we're in those chairs and we're having coffee together, one of us will say, \"All right, you ready to pray?\" And just that list and that system has helped us. So I think there's got to be something in place. Otherwise, I think my tendency is just to pull back.\r\n\r\nDaron (03:33):\r\n\r\nOh yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (03:34):\r\n\r\nYeah. Is there any sense that you need accountability?\r\n\r\nBrian (03:37):\r\n\r\nOh yeah.\r\n\r\nDaron (03:37):\r\n\r\nOh, 100%.\r\n\r\nDave (03:38):\r\n\r\nWhether it's your wife or another guy or group of guys, what's that look like in your life? Do you have that?\r\n\r\nDaron (03:43):\r\n\r\nI have two guys in my life. I'm thinking about them right now that they do that. They know my life inside and out. They're those people that can say what needs to be said and I got to swallow it. We started out meeting for coffee and all that. Now it's just really organic. It's a text message; it's a phone call. And for whatever reason, man, the Holy Spirit talks to them. They'll call me at the right time like, \"Hey, what are you doing right now?\" \"Well, you just caught me and I'm sitting here,\u201d and they're like, \u201cWhy? You should be doing this. You said you're going to do this or checking in on my family.\" So it started out intentional now and became really organic that I expect a message from them at least two to three times a day.\r\n\r\nDave (04:18):\r\n\r\nReally?\r\n\r\nDaron (04:18):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (04:19):\r\n\r\nMan, you must really need help, huh? \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nOh, I do, man. I do. I'm telling you. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nWe all do. That's the truth. We really do.\r\n\r\nJorge (04:25):\r\n\r\nThe community aspect of living in the body is new to me because I've just been a loner. I've always just been like I know mentally I need people. It wasn't a reality in my life. The past couple years I have a circle of men who, not two, three times a day, but yeah, regularly we check in on each other and it's something that I'm learning not just mentally, but now it's a part of my walk to live in community and it is. It's been this huge benefit in my life where men can actually check me. I got some pastors that will check me and say, yeah, like you said, \u201cJorge, what are you doing?\" And yeah, it's been transformational. It's been challenging because I still hate it. I don't like it. Yeah. \r\n\r\nDaron (05:13):\r\n\r\nThere are days I don't want it.\r\n\r\nJorge (05:14):\r\n\r\nYeah. Yeah, man. But it's needed. And also living life with other married couples that want the same thing for their marriages and for their parenting.\r\n\r\nDaron (05:23):\r\n\r\nYeah. That is so important.\r\n\r\nDave (05:25):\r\n\r\nYeah, I know. I'm guessing you guys experienced this when you don't want to go to the gym and then you go. Usually when you're walking out, not every time, but nine out of ten times for me, I'm walking out going, \"I'm glad I did it.\" \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nOh yeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nI didn't want to. I sort of walked in like\u2014next thing you know I get into it, it's an hour and hour and a half later and I'm walking out going, \u201cThat's a good thing.\u201d And that's why we need men in our lives because a lot of times I wouldn't go to the gym by myself, but if there's a guy there, I'm going to do it, that type of thing. I mean, I think that passivity Is a big deal.\r\n\r\nBrian (05:54):\r\n\r\nI feel that way, especially about the conversations that I know I need to have with my kids that I just don't want to have. I sat down with Gibson the other day. We were playing racquetball and there was something that just made me want to check him how he's doing with his phone, what he's looking at, you know the stuff. He's a 17-year-old boy. I hadn't asked him in a while, and I wanted to see where he's at and it's like I don't want to start that conversation because I'd rather just be\u2014I feel like we're doing good. We played a good game. It was fun. I'd rather be fun and harmonious than intimate, especially with my kids because I want them to like me at the end of the day.\r\n\r\nJorge (06:33):\r\n\r\nAnd it's easier.\r\n\r\nBrian (06:33):\r\n\r\nIt is easier. But I always feel better after.\r\n\r\nDave (06:37):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nBrian (06:38):\r\n\r\nAnd I think it's like what you're saying about working out.\r\n\r\nDave (06:39):\r\n\r\nBut you said the word, those conversations. I didn't have daughters, so I don't know if it's different with girls. \r\n\r\nJorge (06:45):\r\n\r\nI don't have daughters either. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nI got one.\r\n\r\nDave (06:46):\r\n\r\nBut those conversations where you step into something that's a little tense like the phone or whatever, those are intimate. And there's part of me that's like, \"I don't want that kind of intimacy. I'll just avoid it,\u201d and then we're good and we're smiling and the moment's gone. And if I look back on regrets, it's like those moments when you feel the nudge of the Spirit, I think it's the Spirit of God saying, \u201cStep in here,\u201d and you don't, we all know because we're old enough to know those are gone and they're gone forever.\r\n\r\nJorge (07:13):\r\n\r\nI was just wanting to follow up on what you said about that relationship with the Holy Spirit because a lot of times I think with the accountability partners piece of it, we tend to prioritize that relationship as the only source of accountability. For me, this relationship that we have with the Holy Spirit, the conviction piece of the spirit of God literally saying to me, \"Do you love your wife?\" And me looking in the mirror, I've done this, look in the mirror, \u201cDo I love my wife?\u201d Then do something. It's this conviction that the Holy Spirit just regularly does, routinely does. So that's also part of what accountability looks like, I think. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nYeah, it's good. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nYeah. Not just let me call a friend, which is important, but I just don't want to minimize the Holy Spirit's work.\r\n\r\nDaron (07:56):\r\n\r\nAnd I think it's mainly when you're not listening. The Holy Spirit has told you a couple of times, \u201cOkay, you\u2019re going to keep ignoring me? I got something for you.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (08:05):\r\n\r\nAll right. I want you to brag. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nWhat? \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nSee, that's my specialty.\r\n\r\nDave (08:08):\r\n\r\nYeah, go for it. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nI'm here for it. I\u2019m the best.\r\n\r\nDave (08:10):\r\n\r\nGive me one or maybe two things you've done right. Let's start with parenting. As a dad, I did this one right or I'm doing it right.\r\n\r\nJorge (08:23):\r\n\r\nI just started doing it, right? \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nYesterday? \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nAgain, back to what we were talking about earlier, the vulnerability piece, like confessing my sins to my children. Often, we read that passage in James, confess your sins one to another. We don't think about the kids. You said real men. Real men confess their sins. \r\n\r\nDave (08:42):\r\n\r\nAnd you know what it says in James 5, that you just quoted.\r\n\r\nJorge (08:46):\r\n\r\nYes. \r\n\r\nDave (08:46):\r\n\r\nConfess your sins to one another so that what?\r\n\r\nJorge (08:48):\r\n\r\nWe pray for another and be healed.\r\n\r\nDave (08:51):\r\n\r\nYeah, I mean, it's like you confess your sins to God for forgiveness and you receive it. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nExactly. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nBut the healing part, isn't that interesting that it says it's a human being. You don't hide that. And you're saying doing it with your kids.\r\n\r\nJorge (09:02):\r\n\r\nDoing it with your kids, which is a foreign concept to me, maybe to most believers. We think of confession toward other adult men that are in the same\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (09:13):\r\n\r\nHey, I want to hear from you guys on this one, but before we go there, I want to ask this from all three of you guys. Hey, and Bruce, we got the young dad in there. \r\n\r\nBrian (09:20):\r\n\r\nYeah, we got him. He's got plenty of time.\r\n\r\nDave (09:21):\r\n\r\nYou can jump in on this too.\r\n\r\nBrian (09:22):\r\n\r\nHe can confess a lot of sins.\r\n\r\nDave (09:23):\r\n\r\nI want to know this. Is there a limit to the confession? Is there a line you shouldn't go over? I remember when our youngest was in the house and the other two were off to college. His name's Cody. He's sitting there as like a junior in high school. Nobody's at the table except Ann, me, and Cody. And he looks at us the first week and goes, \"So did you guys ever have sex before marriage?\"\r\n\r\nDaron (09:49):\r\n\r\nOh, I'd answer that in a heartbeat.\r\n\r\nJorge (09:50):\r\n\r\nI would.\r\n\r\nDave (09:51):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm like, \"Here it is.\" And I mean, we looked at Ann, I looked at her like, \"How honest should we be?\" I don't want him to go, \"Oh, look where you are now, so no big deal.\u201d Or do I lie? So it was like how\u2014 \r\n\r\nJorge (10:04):\r\n\r\nThose are your options.\r\n\r\nDave (10:08):\r\n\r\nI said, I got to go to the bathroom.\r\n\r\nBrian (10:09):\r\n\r\nAnd Ann, what did she answer?\r\n\r\nDave (10:11):\r\n\r\nNo, we were honest. We were honest. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nThat's good. And that aspect of our life was before we were followers of Christ.\r\n\r\n(10:18):\r\n\r\nAnd after we became followers of Christ, it really became an issue like, \"This has got to stop.\" And it did. And I wasn't even dating Ann at that time, but we started dating as we're believers. So I told him the full thing, but there was a catch in my spirit. I've had other mentors say, \"No, you don't need to go there. Just keep some of that\u2014you don't share everything,\u201d so that's why I asked. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nThat's a good question. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nAnd some of it's you have brothers you can ask and the Holy Spirit, but you got to decide how honest you're going to be. All right, go back. What did I say? Oh, brag. What\u2019s something you\u2019ve done right?\r\n\r\nBrian (10:48):\r\n\r\nWe're going back to bragging now. Okay. I thought we were still on, how much do I confess? \r\n\r\nDave (10:51):\r\n\r\nYou want to go there?\r\n\r\nBrian (10:53):\r\n\r\nI can go everywhere you want. \r\n\r\nDave (10:54):\r\n\r\nGo there. I want to hear what you guys think about that.\r\n\r\nBrian (10:54):\r\n\r\nI definitely think, I think the more that you can lead with vulnerability, I don't think you have to always give all the details, but I think I encourage a lot of dads, especially with pornography, when they start talking to their kids about it, you've got to lead with your story because otherwise they'll own their own shame. And so it's like, how do I bring the shame into the light and realize that I'm not beholden, but there is no condemnation for those of us who are in Christ Jesus. And so I can share my story, whatever that shame might be, and obviously at age-appropriate times, but there's times where they need to hear it. So I think being real with, especially when you mess up with your wife or where you take her for granted or when you're having a yelling match, I mean, to be able to apologize in that moment and come back and say, \"I blew it.\r\n\r\n(11:40):\r\n\r\nI blew it.\u201d\r\n\r\nDaron (11:42):\r\n\r\nSo I have the same answer for both those questions. I am extremely open with my kids, so they know this. There are certain questions they won\u2019t ask me because they don't want the answer to and I'm okay with that because I told them and if they are too young to hear it, I'll tell them, I said, \"You too young to hear it right now, but I will let you know one day.\" And I think that leads to the one thing that I think I've done really well, that's something that I've never had modeled, but I really wanted modeled in my own life is that I apologize to my kids when I\u2019m wrong.\r\n\r\nJorge (12:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's really good.\r\n\r\nDaron (12:08):\r\n\r\nI do. And that is the hardest apology that I ever have to give because number one, they're my kids. Number two, I don't want to apologize to them. Why am I telling you sorry? I don't want to say sorry to you. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nRight. You don\u2019t pay no rent.\r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nYou should be listening to me. But no, but so if I feel like I've done them wrong, I will immediately apologize.\r\n\r\nDave (12:23):\r\n\r\nHow about\u2014 \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nI got one. \r\n\r\nDaron (12:25):\r\n\r\nThat hurts.\r\n\r\nBrian (12:26):\r\n\r\nWe hear enough about you, Dave. \r\n\r\nDave (12:28):\r\n\r\nNo, I wasn't going to tell mine. \r\n\r\nBrian (12:29):\r\n\r\nThat's right. You ready to brag again? I get it. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nI like bragging. Ann\u2019s not here. \r\n\r\nBrian:\r\n\r\nI was going to brag on my wife for a second. I think that we've done mundane well and so much of life is just mundane. I was about to say, \u201cOh, we've done vacations well,\u201d and it's like that. But I think the reality of just having dinner around the table five nights a week.\r\n\r\nDaron (12:50):\r\n\r\nI'm learning that right there. My wife loves that and I'm an extremely spontaneous person. I'll wake up in the morning like, \u201cOkay, let's go on a trip.\u201d She'll have fun with that, but she does not enjoy that. What brings her comfort and peace is the mundane.\r\n\r\nDave (13:02):\r\n\r\nYou guys do five nights a week?\r\n\r\nBrian (13:04):\r\n\r\nWhen our kids weren't off doing a ton of activity, like athletics and stuff like that, but in general, I would say four nights a week, I'd say pretty confidently four nights a week we're having dinner together.\r\n\r\nJorge (13:15):\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nDave (13:16):\r\n\r\nWay to go.\r\n\r\nJorge (13:17):\r\n\r\nYeah, way to go.\r\n\r\nBrian (13:17):\r\n\r\nNo, but I think that's not everybody but is there anything that's in your life that's like that consistent? And those dinners aren't magical. I mean, we're still washing dishes, but that's the other thing I'd say is just, are you washing dishes? Are you doing chores together? So much of life is mundane. So if you can do the mundane well and I think your kids get into this\u2014 Now, we have my daughter who's calling and she's telling Jen, she's like, \"I'm going to surprise Connor. They're newlyweds, so everything's a surprise. I'm going to surprise him tonight by showing a new candle and whatever.\" It's like, I don't want to hear all that right now, but she's like, \"Yeah, I'm going to surprise him with this meal tonight.\" And so you just go, \"That's life is around this table.\" \r\n\r\nDave (13:55):\r\n\r\nThere was a study, I don't know if you ever saw it years ago, University of Michigan study that said, \"What are the commonalities in families that raise adult kids that turn out very, very healthy?\" You know what it was? Their conclusion was one thing, four nights a week at the dinner table\u2014\r\n\r\nBrian (14:13):\r\n\r\nThere we go.\r\n\r\nJorge (14:14):\r\n\r\nWell, good. Man, I'm going to add that to my list.\r\n\r\nDaron (14:15):\r\n\r\nI'm doing something else well. We can go with it.\r\n\r\nBrian (14:19):\r\n\r\nI wish I could say I read the study. I just listened to my wife.\r\n\r\nDave (14:24):\r\n\r\nThat's a fascinating\u2014you think about it. It's a fascinating answer. Like, wait, I thought it would be they taught this, they did this. No, they sat around a table, they looked in each other's eyes and they did\u2014and I tell you what, this world we're living in, most families don't. Sports, different activities, which are all important. I remember when our three boys were playing high school football, Ann said, \"Okay, you're not home at six o'clock. We're waiting until 8:00 PM and we're having dinner together as a family.\"\r\n\r\nAnn (14:54):\r\n\r\nHey, we're hearing from many pastors that couples in their churches aren't falling apart, but they're not really truly connecting either and there's this quiet drift happening\r\n\r\nDave (15:05):\r\n\r\nAnd I know you see it happen because we see it happen every week and you know marriages need support without making things complicated. If you've thought about running a marriage or parenting event but didn't want to build everything from scratch, this is one of the simplest ways to do it.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:22):\r\n\r\nSo when you purchase 10 or more workbooks, you'll get the full video-based study included plus planning support; and many churches have used this as a great on ramp for vertical marriage and we've seen really strong impact in couples' lives. Our team is ready to help you host it.\r\n\r\nDave (15:41):\r\n\r\nHere's what you do. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and just click on the link in the show notes and enter the discount code StrongFamilies. And that's one word; StrongFamilies.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:50):\r\n\r\nBecause strong families don't happen by accident. And I think you know that, but sometimes all it takes is one intentional step to help couples reconnect again.\r\n\r\nDave (16:01):\r\n\r\nSo let us help you take that step. \r\n\r\nAll right, Bruce, we're throwing it into the sound\u2014\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (16:09):\r\n\r\nControl room.\r\n\r\nDave (16:10):\r\n\r\nControl room. Yeah, we're throwing it into the control room. What do you got?\r\n\r\nJorge (16:13):\r\n\r\nHe's good at control.\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (16:13):\r\n\r\nI'm just thinking about the confession and the bragging and what Brian said reminded me that it's kind of you can get both. When we confess to our kids, we have no need to fear, oh no, this sin I'm about to confess is too big. You know what I mean? Like you're saying, we don't need to go into all the details, but there is no sin too big because you get to brag on Jesus. It's like, \u201cYeah, kids, look how bad this sin was,\u201d whatever it was. There is no need to fear because you can brag on Jesus and say, \"Yeah, that sin was bad, but look at the Savior we've got.\" Shame is gone. Sin is gone. We confess to that and we're free and what a model that is to our kids. Who should bring a charge against God's elect? Nobody. So we can say that freely.\r\n\r\n(17:01):\r\n\r\nPretty awesome. My oldest is 10, so far, the questions haven't been too hard. I can say that easily but check back in another six years. \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nBrian (17:10):\r\n\r\nWell, you got your age group, Bruce, all 10 and younger. Brag on something that you guys, any habits that you guys have that you\u2014 \r\n\r\nDave (17:19):\r\n\r\nThey do so many things.\r\n\r\nBrian (17:20):\r\n\r\nI know they do. I know they do great stuff. Come on.\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (17:22):\r\n\r\nMostly my wife. I mean, she's amazing.\r\n\r\nDave (17:24):\r\n\r\nBrag on her.\r\n\r\nControl Room - Bruce (17:25):\r\n\r\nShe homeschools. So I'm getting ready in the morning and I'm overhearing, they're going through the new city catechism: \u201cWhy did God create us?\u201d and all this stuff. And the girls are sitting there singing. It's incredible to see their mom just bringing them up and Proverbs 31 talks about her husband, this virtuous woman, her husband trusts in her. And man, what a beautiful thing to see her raising them up in the faith.\r\n\r\nDaron (17:51):\r\n\r\nI realized during the COVID time that I cannot homeschool my kids. It is something I wanted to do. And then I almost killed\u2014 \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nDid you try? \r\n\r\nDaron:\r\n\r\nOh, I tried.\r\n\r\nDave (18:01):\r\n\r\nSo what would you guys say to a guy like Bruce and I'm talking season of life. They've got young kids. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nA lot of things I want to say to Bruce. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYou all have older kids. They want to do fathering well. They want to be the husband. If you had 30 minutes with him at lunch, what would you say?\r\n\r\nDaron (18:20):\r\n\r\nOne of the biggest lessons that I wish I would have learned earlier is that achievement is not everything. That was really, really hard for me to learn. As someone who is driven and who likes to accomplish things and knock things off of a list, achievement is not everything because once you achieve it, sometimes I feel empty. I'm like, \"Man, I did all this work to get here and what for? \" \r\n\r\nDave (18:38):\r\n\r\nIf achievement isn't everything, what is?\r\n\r\nDaron (18:41):\r\n\r\nThere we go. So I think it is learning about the journey and the process of bringing my family with me is what is actually helped me want to achieve more, but this time it's different. It's not me achieving for the sake of achievement. It\u2019s I want my family along with me. I want my kids to see the things that I'm doing. Why? Because I want them to know that you can do these things. I want to do these things with my wife. Why? So that when she looks back, she's like, \"Man, you know what? We did these things together.\" We did the same thing with school. My first degree, she's like, \"Man, we did this together.\u201d \u201cYeah, we sure did do this together. I couldn't do it without you.\" Raising the kids, we do those things together. And it brings this cohesiveness to our family that they're like, \"Man, if my dad can do this,\" because they know where I come from.\r\n\r\n(19:19):\r\n\r\nThey know my history and they're like, \"Man, Dad.\" And their favorite thing is to make fun of me. They love it. They're like, \"Dad, I was never as bad as you. \" And I said, \"You're right and don't try it. Don't try it.\" But achievement by itself is not\u2014it's not everything. It's not everything because you can get there and still be lonely. And the thing is just bringing my family with me and that's changed the whole game for me. It's fun now.\r\n\r\nDave (19:41):\r\n\r\nJorge, what about you? What would you say to a young dad?\r\n\r\nJorge (19:43):\r\n\r\nThere's a lot of pressure to get this thing done right, right? Parenting. Just trust God with your kids. So yeah, be intentional about teaching your children. You're going to fail from time to time. Don't be so hard on yourself and learn from other good dads\u2014\r\n\r\nDaron (20:01):\r\n\r\nFailure's baked in.\r\n\r\nJorge (20:02):\r\n\r\n\u2014not me, Bruce. \r\n\r\nDaron (20:05):\r\n\r\nFor sure. Well, you're baked in. You\u2019re going to fail. Get ready for that. It's okay.\r\n\r\nJorge (20:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, not to minimize sin. \r\n\r\nControl room - Bruce:\r\n\r\nOh, for sure. \r\n\r\nJorge:\r\n\r\nBecause that's not okay. But the kids need to know, deal aggressively with your sin. Confession is a part of that, but also just get up. Righteous man falls seven times but gets back up and just keep running this race. It's a daily grind and we have a hope. I think that's like the beautiful gospel demonstration. I demonstrate the gospel to my kids now when before they thought I was perfect.\r\n\r\nBrian (20:40):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (20:40):\r\n\r\nBrian, you got one?\r\n\r\nBrian (20:41):\r\n\r\nI think we're all hitting it in the same sense. There is no perfect parent. You think about, who is the most perfect father in all of eternity\u2014is Father God and look how his kids turned out. And I think for me, I would probably say, we already said a lot of good stuff about being intentional and confessing and really getting in a few good habits. But I think some for me is just the perspective of my goal isn't just for my kids to make my life easier. That my life will be better. And there is some great wisdom to\u2014Proverb talks about when you discipline your children, it will give their parents rest. There is a lot of truth to that, and you want to be a good, disciplined parent, but recognizing that they are working out their own sin. And so to not be surprised when they break your heart, because they will break your heart; and they will break it in ways that allow you to connect with the heart of the Father because you think, how often does God feel this?\r\n\r\n(21:42):\r\n\r\nIf He truly loves us the way He says He does. And that He's a personal God. And to see, how many times have I been wayward today in my thoughts? So you multiply that by billions.\r\n\r\n(21:53):\r\n\r\nAnd for God to be broken. I would just say it's like; it's going to happen. Feel the brokenness. It hurts. In your own heart, feel the hurt, feel the pain, and then go, okay, then how do we move forward and go, how do I love them in such a way that God loves me? \r\n\r\nDave (22:10):\r\n\r\nSo something happened in you when you said that.\r\n\r\nBrian (22:12):\r\n\r\nYou just replay, you pray the conversations where my daughter in college just working on her own sinful nature and you get shocked and you go, \"That's not how we raised you. And that's not how you've presented yourself to us.\u201d And then you find out the real story. My son in high school and catching him with weed again and how do you deal with in that moment, how do you bring him back to God? The goal isn't to make my life better in this moment or to be embarrassed because of how he\u2014we got a call from a mom, basically, outing one of our kids and man, you talk about embarrassing. And you're starting, thinking about your perception management and you're in ministry and all this kind of stuff and you're feeling all that and all you feel is anger. Like, \u201cHow could my kid do this to me?\u201d\r\n\r\n(23:05):\r\n\r\nAnd it's like you got to step back from that and go, \u201cWe all do that. So now how do I draw them back to God in this moment?\u201d Still give them discipline. They got to have consequences, right?\r\n\r\nDave (23:15):\r\n\r\nYep.\r\n\r\nBrian (23:16):\r\n\r\nBut my goal isn't to make my life better now and more orderly from what the chaos that they just brought in. My goal now is to move through that chaos and connect them to a Savior and leave that impression.\r\n\r\nDave (23:42):\r\n\r\nAll right. Another great day with these three guys. Man, I think this is some stuff that literally can change your legacy and we're going to be back tomorrow. We're going to do one more day with these guys, but if we can help you, just go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp and we will give you resources that'll help you be the dad and mom you want to be.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:02):\r\n\r\nOur vision at FamilyLife is every home, a godly home, and we need your help to get there. And when you become a FamilyLife Partner, your monthly support makes that vision actually possible.\r\n\r\nDave (24:15):\r\n\r\nYeah, you'll get access to exclusive updates and events and the chance to join our partner's only online community. But more than that, you're helping change the future of families. So the question is, will you come alongside us and alongside families in need?\r\n\r\nAnn (24:31):\r\n\r\nAnd you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and read more about it and become a partner. Just click the donate button at the top and again, you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nDave (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae ministry, 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/318477","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=318477"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/295627"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=318477"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=318477"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=318477"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=318477"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=318477"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=318477"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}