{"id":318414,"date":"2026-05-29T05:06:42","date_gmt":"2026-05-29T09:06:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta\/"},"modified":"2026-05-29T05:06:43","modified_gmt":"2026-05-29T09:06:43","slug":"protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta\/","title":{"rendered":"Protecting Your Marriage: John &#038; Debra Fileta"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>How do we protect our marriages in a world that tries to pull us apart? John and Debra Fileta break down three main areas of needed protection and share invaluable advice from their own marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>John &#038; Debra Fileta break down three vital areas of protection and share invaluable advice from their own relationship.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":295627,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/e1308377-3432-4ef3-a495-b448012d27e1\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.85M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9735],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-318414","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","cwp_profile-john-and-debra-fileta","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/318414\/protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/318414\/protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"pyHZMNGDeM\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta\/\">Protecting Your Marriage: John &#038; Debra Fileta<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta\/embed\/#?secret=pyHZMNGDeM\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Protecting Your Marriage: John &#038; Debra Fileta&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"pyHZMNGDeM\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["e1308377-3432-4ef3-a495-b448012d27e1"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/e1308377-3432-4ef3-a495-b448012d27e1\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:24:55"],"filesize":["22.85M"],"_thumbnail_id":["295627"],"show_notes":["\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/may-2026\/?cru_source=D0002408AT&cru_medium=podcast&cru_campaign=May2026&campaign-code=2408AT\">Become a monthly partner with FamilyLife Today<\/a> \u2014 your gift is matched for a full year (double your impact!)<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nProtecting Your Marriage\r\n\r\nGuests:John &amp;amp; Debra Fileta\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Protecting Your Marriage (Day 1 of 1)\r\n\r\nAir date:May 29, 2026\r\n\r\nAnn (00:04):\r\n\r\nI think we're living in a day and age where it's really easy for marriages to be tempted in every way\u2014unfaithfulness; we're bombarded with social media; we're connecting with people that we've never been able to connect to.\r\n\r\nDave (00:18):\r\n\r\nAre you confessing right now?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:19):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nDave (00:28):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:34):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nWe have been really careful in putting boundaries in our marriage, but I have a good friend that just happened to reach out to an old guy that she went to college with. They had five kids. They'd been married for quite a while, and sadly enough, she kept connecting and it ended up in an affair. And that was one of our best friends and best couple friends.\r\n\r\nDave (01:10):\r\n\r\nYeah. And it was obviously something we then walked through with them, and the miracle\u2014God did a miracle\u2014because I literally said to you, \u201cEven God can't save this marriage.\u201d And that was a horrible thing to think, but He did. He really did. But it highlighted how critical protection is to protect your marriage, to set up boundaries, not just sexually, but in all different areas.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:35):\r\n\r\nAnd people, younger people think we have been ridiculous. Like \u201cYou guys are so overboard,\u201d because we've been very intentional about protecting and putting boundaries in our marriage.\r\n\r\nDave (01:46):\r\n\r\nYeah. And so I think it's a great topic to talk about. And we've got the couple in the studio\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (01:51):\r\n\r\n\u2014the couple.\r\n\r\nDave (01:51):\r\n\r\n\u2014to talk about it. I mean, we've got Debra Fileta and her husband, John. And usually Debra's on podcast and interviews by herself because she's the author\u2014wrote a book called Choosing Marriage, which you wrote without your husband, John. But John's sitting over there in the engineer booth, and we had lunch with him. We're like, \"This guy's got dynamite insights.\" \r\n\r\nDebra (02:10):\r\n\r\nI don't know how you guys pulled this off.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:12):\r\n\r\nHe is amazing.\r\n\r\nDave (02:13):\r\n\r\nHe's never done this?\r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nNever.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:13):\r\n\r\nHe's a physician. He's smart. He's really wise. We're like, \u201cOh yeah, and Debra, she's amazing.\u201d She's a podcaster. She's an author. They're both mom and dad of four kids: one daughter, three sons.\r\n\r\nDave (02:26):\r\n\r\n\u2014homeschoolers. You guys are just crazy great. \r\n\r\nAnn (02:28):\r\n\r\nYeah, you're both homeschooling your kids.\r\n\r\nDave (02:29):\r\n\r\nSo this is fun. Welcome to both of you to FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nJohn (02:33):\r\n\r\nThanks for having us.\r\n\r\nDave (02:34):\r\n\r\nNow, John, let me ask you, why have you never done this?\r\n\r\nJohn (02:37):\r\n\r\nI don't know. I lived the adventure from behind the scenes, I guess.\r\n\r\nDebra (02:41):\r\n\r\nHe does so much behind the scenes. So he maybe doesn't do as much with the mic, but so much of the background of the ministry is because of him.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:52):\r\n\r\nDeborah, tell the story of when you were speaking at a large conference and you were selling books and you had someone come up to you commenting about the guy selling the books for you.\r\n\r\nDebra (03:02):\r\n\r\nYeah. He's like, \"How did you get an ophthalmologist to follow you around the country and sell your books?\" I was like, \"Well, he is my husband, so works out.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (03:10):\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nDave (03:11):\r\n\r\nYou do homeschool. You do write. You're a therapist. You're an eye surgeon. How do you keep your marriage strong?\r\n\r\nDebra (03:20):\r\n\r\nI would say it's something that we didn't get right in the beginning. When you first get married, even as a therapist\u2014at the time I was a therapist in training\u2014you still don't know what you're doing. It takes learning and experience, doing things wrong and then getting it right.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:39):\r\n\r\nJohn, did you ever say, \"Stop being a therapist\"? Did you ever say that?\r\n\r\nJohn (03:44):\r\n\r\nI have definitely said that.\r\n\r\nDebra (03:46):\r\n\r\nI've heard those words a couple times.\r\n\r\nJohn (03:47):\r\n\r\n\u201cI'm not a client. I'm your husband.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (03:49):\r\n\r\nYeah, I would too.\r\n\r\nDave (03:51):\r\n\r\nI mean, there's got to be times you feel like you're getting analyzed, though. Like I shared with Debra at lunch, and when I'm up preaching and I see Jack Wilson\u2014he's a therapist in our church\u2014I feel like he's got to be looking at me like, \"Oh my goodness, you have so many issues.\" Have you ever felt that?\r\n\r\nJohn (04:07):\r\n\r\nI don't actually feel that and the reality, being totally truthful, she's usually right.\r\n\r\nDebra (04:13):\r\n\r\nCan somebody just give me a little clip of that to take home?\r\n\r\nJohn (04:16):\r\n\r\nLet's edit that one out. No, but in reality, the fun is we've been learning together, growing together, and it's been amazing to watch our marriage transform over the past decade. And we're still learning today. It's not like we have it totally figured out, but we're on the journey together.\r\n\r\nDave (04:32):\r\n\r\nYeah. And one of the things you wrote about in Choosing Marriage\u2014but you also together, I've found you're passionate about it\u2014is this idea of protecting your marriage. I love your chapter title, \u201cAlways Use Protection.\u201d Obviously, we're tongue in cheek on that one but talk about protection. How do you protect your marriage?\r\n\r\nDebra (04:51):\r\n\r\nYeah. And first and foremost, I wouldn't be able to write these chapters if I didn't have a spouse who is helping me live them out. You don't just write it. You have to live it. So this is something that I think we're both passionate about. Proverbs 4:23, \"Above all else, guard your heart.\" And it doesn't say guard other people's hearts or other people should guard your heart. We're responsible for protecting what God has given us and that's our marriage. So we're deliberate about that in a few ways.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:23):\r\n\r\nJohn, did you guys start out like that? Like, \"Hey, this is going to be something that we're talking about. This is important to us.\" Did you start there and know that?\r\n\r\nJohn (05:31):\r\n\r\nI don't think we knew it to start. I mean, I think we've always been totally committed to one another, but I think as we watched, just as you guys shared, you see other couples falter. You see people make mistakes. We see it unfortunately on the news all the time and you realize no one's immune to this. It can happen to anyone in any place. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nIncluding us. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah, including us. And you realize you don't find a great marriage; you make a great marriage. And part of making it is this process of putting boundaries around your marriage.\r\n\r\nAnn (06:02):\r\n\r\nWhat's that look like, Debra? You have some principles. Start us off with how you teach this.\r\n\r\nDebra (06:08):\r\n\r\nYeah. I would say three main things, and we can kind of talk about them in order.  \r\n\r\nWe protect our emotions. \r\n\r\nWe protect our interactions. \r\n\r\nWe protect our time. \r\n\r\nThose are the three, what I like to say the intruders\u2014because that's where we're most susceptible to making a decision that's not healthy or going down a path that's not good for our relationship. So when it comes to our emotions, you realize that there's so many opportunities to either miss sharing your emotions with one another or ending up sharing them with somebody other than your spouse. So we try to be really intentional about making sure that we give the first fruit of our emotional connection to one another.\r\n\r\nAnn (06:54):\r\n\r\nHow do you guys do that?\u2014especially now. You've got four kids, you've got a six-month-old, and right now you're probably just surviving some days. So how do you do that?\r\n\r\nJohn (07:05):\r\n\r\nI think now it looks like we're very deliberate with how we interact in our time. So by 9:00 PM, we're fighting to get all the kids in bed and kids know it's Mommy and Daddy time. After that, there's no coming to the bedroom. I don't care who's hiding in the closet. It's our time and they know that our room is kind of our sanctuary and we're very deliberate about spending time together. And it's easy to hop in bed, turn on TV, turn on Netflix. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nOh yeah. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nThat's the quick, easy, relaxing way, but it's being deliberate about, \"Hey, let's talk a little bit.\"\r\n\r\nDebra (07:40):\r\n\r\nTell them about our Sunday night ritual.\r\n\r\nAnn (07:42):\r\n\r\nYeah, this is good.\r\n\r\nJohn (07:43):\r\n\r\nYeah. So something that we started early on in our marriage that I would actually say totally transformed our marriage and has made it incredible and has transformed me as a man and in every way has made me better is our Sunday night check-ins. So every Sunday night at 9:00 PM\u2014initially I had my iPhone alarm pop off; 9:00 PM comes\u2014we got to check in.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:04):\r\n\r\nI love that you set your alarm.\r\n\r\nJohn (08:05):\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nOtherwise, he wouldn't remember. That's how I knew that he was being intentional about this. \r\n\r\nJohn (08:11):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:11):\r\n\r\nSo your alarm goes off.\r\n\r\nJohn (08:12):\r\n\r\nSo our alarm goes off, we hop on the couch. And the first time we sit there, there's just a lot of crickets going off and it was really\u2014 \r\n\r\nDebra (08:21):\r\n\r\nEspecially for you, right? \r\n\r\nJohn (08:22):\r\n\r\nYeah, it was really awkward.\r\n\r\nDebra (08:23):\r\n\r\nI'm used to the emotional conversation.\r\n\r\nJohn (08:25):\r\n\r\nYes. It was super awkward. I mean, I talked more in 10 minutes with her than I probably shared my emotions my entire life.\r\n\r\nDave (08:31):\r\n\r\nReally? \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nDid you ask some great question, Debra?\r\n\r\nDebra (08:34):\r\n\r\nI don't recall that I did. I think it was just like having these big picture check-ins, like \u201cLet's talk about how we're doing emotionally. Let's talk about sins and struggles.\u201d\u2014just kind of these big picture things that we would both take turns talking about.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:49):\r\n\r\nWell, if I said to Dave, \u201cLet's talk about how you're doing emotionally,\u201d\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (08:53):\r\n\r\nI was just going to ask John, what do you say? Because if Ann said that to me, I'd be like, \"I don't know. I'm okay.\"\r\n\r\nJohn (08:58):\r\n\r\nThat's exactly what I said. I was like, \"I don't know.\" And she's like, \"Well, I don't know is not good enough. You got to think for a second, take a minute to pause and what are you actually feeling?\" So then I said, \"Hey,\" because at the time I think I was in medical school. There's always this baseline test of baseline stress of, \u201cIf I don't score high enough on my tests, I can't go into the field that I want to study.\u201d And so I want to be ophthalmology, which you have to score really high to get into it. And so I always was feeling a little stressed with school. We literally were living on like, I don't know, $2,000 a year, like basically nothing and loans. So we always had money. It was funny\u2014\r\n\r\nDebra (09:40):\r\n\r\nWe had two kids, two little kids. That's why we started this, because we were actually not at a good place. We were at a place where we were both defaulting to unhealthy patterns and not connecting well. And it's like, \u201cThis isn't going to work for either of us. This is not a good place,\u201d and \u201cWe can't just let our marriage be on autopilot and just see what happens.\u201d So we were like, \u201cThis is what we\u2014we need to be deliberate about connecting.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (10:08):\r\n\r\nSo John, did you find yourself\u2014because I'm thinking, \u201cOkay, if I'm you\u201d\u2014and I\u2019ve been you. I've felt exactly those things in different times of my life. If I was being really honest, I would be saying, \u201cI'm scared,\u201d \u201cI'm afraid,\u201d \u201cI'm stressed,\u201d \u201cI don't know if I can do it,\u201d \u201cI don't know if I\u2014\" Is that the kind of things you started talking about? \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nAnd just saying that out loud is like, \"Oh man, this is going to be helpful.\"\r\n\r\nAnn (10:34):\r\n\r\nIf Dave said that to me\u2014did you feel like this, Deb?\u2014like that's endearing. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nIt is. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat vulnerability and that going deep.\r\n\r\nDebra (10:41):\r\n\r\nIt is, and if there's any bitterness\u2014He's working too much,\u201d or \u201cI have too much on my plate in medical school,\u201d \u201cI'm home with the kids\u201d\u2014that sharing, dissolves that. It invites you into their heart. I mean, I feel like it's an endearing thing because it's an invitation to come and experience what I'm experiencing: \u201cLet me share this with you.\u201d And why you have to protect your emotions is because it is such an intimate part of who you are. If your spouse isn't receiving that part of you, who is? Is it your mom?\u2014your sister?\u2014your best friend?\u2014nobody? \r\n\r\nDave (11:20):\r\n\r\nOr somebody outside that's inappropriate.\r\n\r\nDebra (11:23):\r\n\r\nSomebody else. Yeah. That's where it begins is having that comfort level to just be honest about how we feel.\r\n\r\nDave (11:29):\r\n\r\nAt the Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaway that we do at FamilyLife, we talk about level five communication, where one is sort of superficial, but five is like, \"I'm going to go and open my heart.\" So you're going there. Was that a struggle?\r\n\r\nJohn (11:45):\r\n\r\nIt was unnatural. My body's like, \"Hey, this is DEFCON 5, high alert here.\" And part of it too, we confess to each other. We confess sin. And at first, it's really awkward to say things you've done wrong.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:00):\r\n\r\nYeah. What's that look like? \u201cHey, it's time for you to confess your sin.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (12:02):\r\n\r\nAnn, you can't ask them about their sin. Is that what you're asking? \u201cHey, tell us about your sin.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (12:06):\r\n\r\nNo, I\u2019m just saying how did you get into that? Like, \u201cOh, it's your turn. Now it's my turn.\u201d\r\n\r\nJohn (12:10):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:10):\r\n\r\nHow did you decide that?\r\n\r\nDebra (12:12):\r\n\r\nI mean, you just begin to realize that it's easy to live in a way where you don't fully know each other, unless you're intentional about asking those questions.\r\n\r\n(12:20):\r\n\r\nAnd I am a therapist, but I was a newbie therapist at the time. So it's not like I had this extraordinary set of skills that the average person doesn't have. It was just a matter of \u201cWhat does it look like to connect with my spouse and to share my heart?\u201d James 5 tells us, \"Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you can be healed.\" It's like, I had accountability in college with some girlfriends, why can't we have that in our relationship? And what does that look like for each of us?\r\n\r\nAnn (12:53):\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s good I love that. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nSo does this mean there's no secrets?\r\n\r\nJohn (12:56):\r\n\r\nThere's no secrets. No. We're open with everything. So I mean, it started early, like, if I had an inappropriate thought or if I looked at a woman inappropriately, I told her. And you know what happens when you confess those things? You get freedom from them. And I realized if I have to tell her these things on Sunday night, you're highly motivated during the week to choose the right thing.\r\n\r\nAnn (13:20):\r\n\r\nOh, it's accountability.\r\n\r\nJohn (13:20):\r\n\r\nBecause you realize \u201cThis is what I'm going to share. This is how I'm going to feel. This is how I'm going to hurt my wife and it's going to make me feel horrible, and I'm wrong in doing this.\u201d And it helps you become\u2014that's why I say it's transformed our marriage, made me a better man, because you live in freedom, joy, and then the fullness that you get to experience of being fully known, fully loved, fully accepted is deeper than anything you could imagine. It's unbelievable.\r\n\r\nDave (13:46):\r\n\r\nNow, are there things that you think shouldn't be shared like emotionally or too far? \r\n\r\nDebra (13:54):\r\n\r\nWell, I always tell people that if your life is like a book, chapter by chapter, make sure that your spouse knows the summary. They don't have to know every sentence and every detail. Let's just even talk about that example of \u201cI had an inappropriate thought.\u201d Well, I don't have to know who it was and what you were thinking and all the nitty gritty details; or something in my past. I don't need to know exactly what you did and how you did it, but I just need to have a general idea of where you're struggling, and you need to have a general idea of where I'm struggling. It's accountability and it's also freedom. I think there's something here for the church as well, but what if it started in our marriages?\r\n\r\nRon Deal (14:41):\r\n\r\nHey friends, Ron Deal here. Did you know that for 50 years, FamilyLife has been working around the world and in your backyard to teach couples, parents, and families how to love God and love one another? And thousands of churches utilize a FamilyLife resource to teach biblical principles for life and love in their community. And thanks to people like you, this work continues to help people pursue the relationships that matter most with God and with others. Become a FamilyLife Partner today because right now every new monthly gift is matched for an entire year. Double your gift at FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-FLToday. That's 1-800-FLToday.\r\n\r\nDave (15:29):\r\n\r\nHere's a question for you, and you're a therapist, so I'd love to hear your thought. A husband tells his wife after he's prayed one night, \"I just prayed to God I'd rather be dead than married to you.\" Should he say that?\r\n\r\nAnn (15:42):\r\n\r\nThis was our conversation\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (15:43):\r\n\r\nThis was me.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:44):\r\n\r\n\u2014our first year of marriage.\r\n\r\nDebra (15:44):\r\n\r\nWere you the honest one? \r\n\r\nDave (15:46):\r\n\r\nI said that, and I said it because we were told before marriage share every thought you ever had. And when I came\u2014 \r\n\r\nDebra (15:53):\r\n\r\nI'm noticing some things about you, Dave. I really am.\r\n\r\nDave (15:57):\r\n\r\nOh, what are you noticing? I don't know if I want to hear it.\r\n\r\nDebra (15:59):\r\n\r\nI'm noticing a lot of spiritual lingo used to kind of tell her what you really needed to tell her. Remember when you said he brought you a list that he prayed about, and now you're praying again? \r\n\r\nAnn (16:12):\r\n\r\nHe's spiritually abusing me is what you're saying.\r\n\r\nDebra (16:14):\r\n\r\nHe's blaming God for a whole lot.\r\n\r\nDave (16:17):\r\n\r\nWell, the second it came out of my mouth\u2014this is in the first nine months of our marriage\u2014the second I said it, and I said it because we're supposed to be totally honest. I don't want to hide anything. As soon as it came out, I looked at her when I saw her face just drop. I was like, \"That was stupid.\" That's one of those things that I didn't need to be that specific about. I really had just said that because we were really struggling.\r\n\r\nDebra (16:39):\r\n\r\nYou were annoyed too. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nAnd that's the difference. I'm not sharing my honest opinion about what he needs to work on and change and what I don't like about him. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat's good. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nThis is an honest assessment of me\u2014what I'm doing, what I'm struggling with, where I'm at. It's not me assessing him. It's easy to be honest about assessing my spouse. Here's what you got to work on. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nYes. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nBut how\u2014the key to freedom, I think, is learning to give that honest assessment to ourselves\u2014taking the plank out of our own eye before we take the splinter out.\r\n\r\nAnn (17:10):\r\n\r\nAnd it's that vulnerability of exposing \u201cThis is who I am,\u201d and it's not pretty. And having our spouse continue to receive us is the gospel.\r\n\r\nDave (17:19):\r\n\r\nI think it's really cool that what you're modeling for us, and every couple, can be done by anybody. I mean, part of me is like, \"Well, you're a therapist, so you're really good at this.\" No, any husband and wife, if they have the guts and the courage to say, \"Let's do a check-in and be honest,\" this can really change their marriage.\r\n\r\nJohn (17:37):\r\n\r\nAnd I think a great starting point is you look at your own life and think about, what's one thing I want to do better in? Or what's one thing I want to get better in? If you're a parent who gets super angry, choose that. Just check in that week, say, \"Hey, how was\u2014I struggled with anger this week with the kids. I responded this way. Or when you told me this\u201d\u2014I think if you look at yourself, we each have one thing that we usually struggle with or tend to go to. That's a great starting point. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat's good. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nAnd it's not going to magically change one day. It's a process of years and years, and then it's also building in the accountability. So being open about things. One of the things that we talked about for protecting your interactions, like Deb and I are very deliberate about\u2014I haven't deleted my internet history the entire time I've had my computer for seven years.\r\n\r\n(18:26):\r\n\r\nShe has total freedom. She can look at my phone. She can look at my computer. I have nothing I'm afraid of her to see.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:32):\r\n\r\nSo we've gone from guarding your emotions. Now, you're looking at how you guard your actions. \r\n\r\nDebra (18:36):\r\n\r\nYour interactions with people.\r\n\r\nJohn (18:36):\r\n\r\nYour interactions.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:37):\r\n\r\nYour interactions, okay. And what about you, Deb? What's that look like? What else do you guys do?\r\n\r\nDebra (18:42):\r\n\r\nWell, just even in the ministry world, you're meeting a lot of people and there's so many opportunities to connect with people of the opposite sex. So we're always cautious about not accepting invitations where we're going to be alone with someone of the opposite sex. I mean, it's really not a big deal to throw in a third party. And it's not even because we're worried or we don't trust each other. Some of it also is just so that there's no opportunity for anyone else to think something might be happening that's not.\r\n\r\nAnn (19:12):\r\n\r\nNot even giving a hint.\r\n\r\nDebra (19:14):\r\n\r\nNot even a hint of an opportunity or a misunderstanding. So we're just really careful with interactions. If there's someone I'm interacting with on a regular basis via email or text, I'm always telling him what's going on. He's always telling me. We loop each other in. I mean, in marriage, you're one. Seeing that in the context of your interactions with people, it isn't weird to CC him into an email because we're one.\r\n\r\nAnn (19:40):\r\n\r\nDave and I do that all the time. I'll just include him on the text if it's with another guy and like, \"Hey, Dave's on this.\" And it's just become a habit for us. Some people think it's ridiculous, but you're right, we're one and my world is Dave's world, and we don't want to disclude one another from that. And the last one, you talk about time, like guarding your time. What's that look like?\r\n\r\nDebra (20:01):\r\n\r\nThis is the trickiest one and I think something that we struggle with the most in the world, because within seconds you can be on your phone in the same room but doing completely different things. John can be playing chess. I can be on Instagram, and the time passes just like that. So I think protecting your time is one of the most important things that you can do for your relationship.\r\n\r\nAnn (20:23):\r\n\r\nWe really have struggled with this just because screen time is just so accessible where it's in our hands. We can work, we can do emails, we can play games, and we have found that to be isolating at times. So you're saying the same thing.\r\n\r\nDave (20:37):\r\n\r\nSo how do you do it?\r\n\r\nJohn (20:38):\r\n\r\nYeah. I think it's realizing that anytime you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. You just be aware of the choices you're making. So with technology, I try sometimes\u2014and I'm guilty of this. I'm on my phone in the evenings checking things, but being deliberate about, \u201cOkay, this next hour through dinner, whatever, I'm putting my phone on the desk.\u201d There's nothing really urgent I actually have to get to. I don't need to know this fact on Google immediately. I can wait. So it's putting our phone away.\r\n\r\nAnn (21:06):\r\n\r\nYou don't need to know what the score is of the game at that moment. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nExactly.\r\n\r\nDave (21:09):\r\n\r\nI'm not even going to look over there.\r\n\r\nJohn (21:12):\r\n\r\nHe's like, \"That's why I have the watch app.\" \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nExactly. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\n\u201cI can look indiscreetly.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave (21:16):\r\n\r\n\u201cJust checking the time, honey.\u201d\r\n\r\nDebra (21:18):\r\n\r\nHilarious.\r\n\r\n(21:20):\r\n\r\nThe other thing too is just learning to do things together, like our hobbies, instead of having separate hobbies, doing things that we both like. I did a survey of a thousand married couples and over 50% of them said they have separate hobbies and interests. Think about how much time is spent in separate things with the little time you have that you could actually be doing something together. So we've learned to take up things that the other likes, or learn about something that the other person likes, or do something together that's new for both of us and just kind of learning to guard our time in that way.\r\n\r\nAnn (21:53):\r\n\r\nI felt like I should probably start playing golf, ugh.\r\n\r\nDave (21:58):\r\n\r\nYou don't have to play golf. Tennis is good enough for me. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nAll right.\r\n\r\nDebra (22:00):\r\n\r\nOr you can both take up something new together. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat's true.\r\n\r\nJohn (22:03):\r\n\r\nAnd it also looks really different in different seasons. When I was working, at one point in my training, a hundred hours a week, we had young children under five\u2014the reality is when you have no time, you have no time for hobbies. So you need to accept I can't go out golfing for six hours. That's just a poor choice that's going to separate me from my wife. So when you don't have time, you don't have separate time. That's just the reality. And I think sometimes as Americans, we try to squeeze everything in, go, go, go, go. We don't pause and stop. And that's where we tried to be deliberate about choosing hobbies together. Like we'll go for walks, we'll go hiking. I love playing chess, random game. She learned how to play chess so she could play with me. \r\n\r\nDebra (22:43):\r\n\r\nI don't love it, but I've learned how to do it. \r\n\r\nAnn (22:45):\r\n\r\nLook at you though. That's awesome.\r\n\r\nJohn (22:47):\r\n\r\nYeah. And I think ultimately this idea of trust, the fruit of it is that you end up experiencing the deepest joy, pleasure, satisfaction, greater than any of these other things appear to give you, but you get to experience in your marriage.\r\n\r\nDave (23:01):\r\n\r\nWell, I mean, I think as I'm listening, the whole idea of protecting your marriage, when you choose to do that, it builds trust. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nThat's probably the biggest thing I'm hearing is like when you say, \u201cMy life is not mine, it's ours,\u201d and so my interactions, you're going to know. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nMy internet history, you're going to know; my conversation with other people, my time, my emotions\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (23:24):\r\n\r\nMy emotions, yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (23:26):\r\n\r\n\u2014that builds trust, and a marriage has to be built on trust. And if I'm withholding that, that creates distrust and then the marriage starts to fall apart. So what a great gift this conversation, I think, has been for couples to say, \u201cOkay, you have given us really practical\u2014\u201d I mean, even if couples just said, \"Okay, let's start with the Sunday night or Monday night, whatever you want to do\u2014\r\n\r\nDebra (23:46):\r\n\r\nYeah, whatever night works, or day.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:47):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (23:47):\r\n\r\n\u2014do a check-in and say, \"I'm going to be open with my heart and my life to you.\" That's going to start something new in a marriage that could save the marriage.\r\n\r\nDebra (23:56):\r\n\r\nEvery single one is like a string, a new string that connects you to your spouse. The more you have, the more deliberate you have, the stronger your marriage is in the end.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:04):\r\n\r\nAnd I love that you guys have been incredibly intentional about your relationship and about your family. It's inspiring to see how God's using you. \r\n\r\nJohn and Debra:\r\n\r\nThank you.\r\n\r\nDave (24:12):\r\n\r\nAnd I love having John on the broadcast. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nYeah, John!\r\n\r\nDebra (24:15):\r\n\r\nThank you guys. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYou were awesome. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nThanks for having us. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nThanks for having us.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:21):\r\n\r\nOkay, I love these guys.\r\n\r\nDave (24:23):\r\n\r\nDebra's amazing. She's been in here several times, but when you get John, her husband, to come in with her, it's like the jackpot.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:29):\r\n\r\nIt is. And Debra's book is called Choosing Marriage: Why It Has to Start with We&amp;gt;Me.\r\n\r\nDave (24:36):\r\n\r\nAnd you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-05-29.pdf"],"ssp_guid":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/protecting-your-marriage-john-debra-fileta\/"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{max-width: 100%;width: 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1780099468;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg",1024,1024,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret Coyle","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coyle-a9eb952f\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"John & Debra Fileta break down three vital areas of protection and share invaluable advice from their own relationship.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/may-2026\/?cru_source=D0002408AT&cru_medium=podcast&cru_campaign=May2026&campaign-code=2408AT\">Become a monthly partner with FamilyLife Today<\/a> \u2014 your gift is matched for a full year (double your impact!)<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-05-29.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nProtecting Your Marriage\r\n\r\nGuests:John &amp;amp; Debra Fileta\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Protecting Your Marriage (Day 1 of 1)\r\n\r\nAir date:May 29, 2026\r\n\r\nAnn (00:04):\r\n\r\nI think we're living in a day and age where it's really easy for marriages to be tempted in every way\u2014unfaithfulness; we're bombarded with social media; we're connecting with people that we've never been able to connect to.\r\n\r\nDave (00:18):\r\n\r\nAre you confessing right now?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:19):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nDave (00:28):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:34):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nWe have been really careful in putting boundaries in our marriage, but I have a good friend that just happened to reach out to an old guy that she went to college with. They had five kids. They'd been married for quite a while, and sadly enough, she kept connecting and it ended up in an affair. And that was one of our best friends and best couple friends.\r\n\r\nDave (01:10):\r\n\r\nYeah. And it was obviously something we then walked through with them, and the miracle\u2014God did a miracle\u2014because I literally said to you, \u201cEven God can't save this marriage.\u201d And that was a horrible thing to think, but He did. He really did. But it highlighted how critical protection is to protect your marriage, to set up boundaries, not just sexually, but in all different areas.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:35):\r\n\r\nAnd people, younger people think we have been ridiculous. Like \u201cYou guys are so overboard,\u201d because we've been very intentional about protecting and putting boundaries in our marriage.\r\n\r\nDave (01:46):\r\n\r\nYeah. And so I think it's a great topic to talk about. And we've got the couple in the studio\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (01:51):\r\n\r\n\u2014the couple.\r\n\r\nDave (01:51):\r\n\r\n\u2014to talk about it. I mean, we've got Debra Fileta and her husband, John. And usually Debra's on podcast and interviews by herself because she's the author\u2014wrote a book called Choosing Marriage, which you wrote without your husband, John. But John's sitting over there in the engineer booth, and we had lunch with him. We're like, \"This guy's got dynamite insights.\" \r\n\r\nDebra (02:10):\r\n\r\nI don't know how you guys pulled this off.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:12):\r\n\r\nHe is amazing.\r\n\r\nDave (02:13):\r\n\r\nHe's never done this?\r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nNever.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:13):\r\n\r\nHe's a physician. He's smart. He's really wise. We're like, \u201cOh yeah, and Debra, she's amazing.\u201d She's a podcaster. She's an author. They're both mom and dad of four kids: one daughter, three sons.\r\n\r\nDave (02:26):\r\n\r\n\u2014homeschoolers. You guys are just crazy great. \r\n\r\nAnn (02:28):\r\n\r\nYeah, you're both homeschooling your kids.\r\n\r\nDave (02:29):\r\n\r\nSo this is fun. Welcome to both of you to FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nJohn (02:33):\r\n\r\nThanks for having us.\r\n\r\nDave (02:34):\r\n\r\nNow, John, let me ask you, why have you never done this?\r\n\r\nJohn (02:37):\r\n\r\nI don't know. I lived the adventure from behind the scenes, I guess.\r\n\r\nDebra (02:41):\r\n\r\nHe does so much behind the scenes. So he maybe doesn't do as much with the mic, but so much of the background of the ministry is because of him.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:52):\r\n\r\nDeborah, tell the story of when you were speaking at a large conference and you were selling books and you had someone come up to you commenting about the guy selling the books for you.\r\n\r\nDebra (03:02):\r\n\r\nYeah. He's like, \"How did you get an ophthalmologist to follow you around the country and sell your books?\" I was like, \"Well, he is my husband, so works out.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (03:10):\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nDave (03:11):\r\n\r\nYou do homeschool. You do write. You're a therapist. You're an eye surgeon. How do you keep your marriage strong?\r\n\r\nDebra (03:20):\r\n\r\nI would say it's something that we didn't get right in the beginning. When you first get married, even as a therapist\u2014at the time I was a therapist in training\u2014you still don't know what you're doing. It takes learning and experience, doing things wrong and then getting it right.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:39):\r\n\r\nJohn, did you ever say, \"Stop being a therapist\"? Did you ever say that?\r\n\r\nJohn (03:44):\r\n\r\nI have definitely said that.\r\n\r\nDebra (03:46):\r\n\r\nI've heard those words a couple times.\r\n\r\nJohn (03:47):\r\n\r\n\u201cI'm not a client. I'm your husband.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (03:49):\r\n\r\nYeah, I would too.\r\n\r\nDave (03:51):\r\n\r\nI mean, there's got to be times you feel like you're getting analyzed, though. Like I shared with Debra at lunch, and when I'm up preaching and I see Jack Wilson\u2014he's a therapist in our church\u2014I feel like he's got to be looking at me like, \"Oh my goodness, you have so many issues.\" Have you ever felt that?\r\n\r\nJohn (04:07):\r\n\r\nI don't actually feel that and the reality, being totally truthful, she's usually right.\r\n\r\nDebra (04:13):\r\n\r\nCan somebody just give me a little clip of that to take home?\r\n\r\nJohn (04:16):\r\n\r\nLet's edit that one out. No, but in reality, the fun is we've been learning together, growing together, and it's been amazing to watch our marriage transform over the past decade. And we're still learning today. It's not like we have it totally figured out, but we're on the journey together.\r\n\r\nDave (04:32):\r\n\r\nYeah. And one of the things you wrote about in Choosing Marriage\u2014but you also together, I've found you're passionate about it\u2014is this idea of protecting your marriage. I love your chapter title, \u201cAlways Use Protection.\u201d Obviously, we're tongue in cheek on that one but talk about protection. How do you protect your marriage?\r\n\r\nDebra (04:51):\r\n\r\nYeah. And first and foremost, I wouldn't be able to write these chapters if I didn't have a spouse who is helping me live them out. You don't just write it. You have to live it. So this is something that I think we're both passionate about. Proverbs 4:23, \"Above all else, guard your heart.\" And it doesn't say guard other people's hearts or other people should guard your heart. We're responsible for protecting what God has given us and that's our marriage. So we're deliberate about that in a few ways.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:23):\r\n\r\nJohn, did you guys start out like that? Like, \"Hey, this is going to be something that we're talking about. This is important to us.\" Did you start there and know that?\r\n\r\nJohn (05:31):\r\n\r\nI don't think we knew it to start. I mean, I think we've always been totally committed to one another, but I think as we watched, just as you guys shared, you see other couples falter. You see people make mistakes. We see it unfortunately on the news all the time and you realize no one's immune to this. It can happen to anyone in any place. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nIncluding us. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah, including us. And you realize you don't find a great marriage; you make a great marriage. And part of making it is this process of putting boundaries around your marriage.\r\n\r\nAnn (06:02):\r\n\r\nWhat's that look like, Debra? You have some principles. Start us off with how you teach this.\r\n\r\nDebra (06:08):\r\n\r\nYeah. I would say three main things, and we can kind of talk about them in order.  \r\n\r\nWe protect our emotions. \r\n\r\nWe protect our interactions. \r\n\r\nWe protect our time. \r\n\r\nThose are the three, what I like to say the intruders\u2014because that's where we're most susceptible to making a decision that's not healthy or going down a path that's not good for our relationship. So when it comes to our emotions, you realize that there's so many opportunities to either miss sharing your emotions with one another or ending up sharing them with somebody other than your spouse. So we try to be really intentional about making sure that we give the first fruit of our emotional connection to one another.\r\n\r\nAnn (06:54):\r\n\r\nHow do you guys do that?\u2014especially now. You've got four kids, you've got a six-month-old, and right now you're probably just surviving some days. So how do you do that?\r\n\r\nJohn (07:05):\r\n\r\nI think now it looks like we're very deliberate with how we interact in our time. So by 9:00 PM, we're fighting to get all the kids in bed and kids know it's Mommy and Daddy time. After that, there's no coming to the bedroom. I don't care who's hiding in the closet. It's our time and they know that our room is kind of our sanctuary and we're very deliberate about spending time together. And it's easy to hop in bed, turn on TV, turn on Netflix. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nOh yeah. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nThat's the quick, easy, relaxing way, but it's being deliberate about, \"Hey, let's talk a little bit.\"\r\n\r\nDebra (07:40):\r\n\r\nTell them about our Sunday night ritual.\r\n\r\nAnn (07:42):\r\n\r\nYeah, this is good.\r\n\r\nJohn (07:43):\r\n\r\nYeah. So something that we started early on in our marriage that I would actually say totally transformed our marriage and has made it incredible and has transformed me as a man and in every way has made me better is our Sunday night check-ins. So every Sunday night at 9:00 PM\u2014initially I had my iPhone alarm pop off; 9:00 PM comes\u2014we got to check in.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:04):\r\n\r\nI love that you set your alarm.\r\n\r\nJohn (08:05):\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nOtherwise, he wouldn't remember. That's how I knew that he was being intentional about this. \r\n\r\nJohn (08:11):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:11):\r\n\r\nSo your alarm goes off.\r\n\r\nJohn (08:12):\r\n\r\nSo our alarm goes off, we hop on the couch. And the first time we sit there, there's just a lot of crickets going off and it was really\u2014 \r\n\r\nDebra (08:21):\r\n\r\nEspecially for you, right? \r\n\r\nJohn (08:22):\r\n\r\nYeah, it was really awkward.\r\n\r\nDebra (08:23):\r\n\r\nI'm used to the emotional conversation.\r\n\r\nJohn (08:25):\r\n\r\nYes. It was super awkward. I mean, I talked more in 10 minutes with her than I probably shared my emotions my entire life.\r\n\r\nDave (08:31):\r\n\r\nReally? \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nDid you ask some great question, Debra?\r\n\r\nDebra (08:34):\r\n\r\nI don't recall that I did. I think it was just like having these big picture check-ins, like \u201cLet's talk about how we're doing emotionally. Let's talk about sins and struggles.\u201d\u2014just kind of these big picture things that we would both take turns talking about.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:49):\r\n\r\nWell, if I said to Dave, \u201cLet's talk about how you're doing emotionally,\u201d\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (08:53):\r\n\r\nI was just going to ask John, what do you say? Because if Ann said that to me, I'd be like, \"I don't know. I'm okay.\"\r\n\r\nJohn (08:58):\r\n\r\nThat's exactly what I said. I was like, \"I don't know.\" And she's like, \"Well, I don't know is not good enough. You got to think for a second, take a minute to pause and what are you actually feeling?\" So then I said, \"Hey,\" because at the time I think I was in medical school. There's always this baseline test of baseline stress of, \u201cIf I don't score high enough on my tests, I can't go into the field that I want to study.\u201d And so I want to be ophthalmology, which you have to score really high to get into it. And so I always was feeling a little stressed with school. We literally were living on like, I don't know, $2,000 a year, like basically nothing and loans. So we always had money. It was funny\u2014\r\n\r\nDebra (09:40):\r\n\r\nWe had two kids, two little kids. That's why we started this, because we were actually not at a good place. We were at a place where we were both defaulting to unhealthy patterns and not connecting well. And it's like, \u201cThis isn't going to work for either of us. This is not a good place,\u201d and \u201cWe can't just let our marriage be on autopilot and just see what happens.\u201d So we were like, \u201cThis is what we\u2014we need to be deliberate about connecting.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (10:08):\r\n\r\nSo John, did you find yourself\u2014because I'm thinking, \u201cOkay, if I'm you\u201d\u2014and I\u2019ve been you. I've felt exactly those things in different times of my life. If I was being really honest, I would be saying, \u201cI'm scared,\u201d \u201cI'm afraid,\u201d \u201cI'm stressed,\u201d \u201cI don't know if I can do it,\u201d \u201cI don't know if I\u2014\" Is that the kind of things you started talking about? \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nAnd just saying that out loud is like, \"Oh man, this is going to be helpful.\"\r\n\r\nAnn (10:34):\r\n\r\nIf Dave said that to me\u2014did you feel like this, Deb?\u2014like that's endearing. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nIt is. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat vulnerability and that going deep.\r\n\r\nDebra (10:41):\r\n\r\nIt is, and if there's any bitterness\u2014He's working too much,\u201d or \u201cI have too much on my plate in medical school,\u201d \u201cI'm home with the kids\u201d\u2014that sharing, dissolves that. It invites you into their heart. I mean, I feel like it's an endearing thing because it's an invitation to come and experience what I'm experiencing: \u201cLet me share this with you.\u201d And why you have to protect your emotions is because it is such an intimate part of who you are. If your spouse isn't receiving that part of you, who is? Is it your mom?\u2014your sister?\u2014your best friend?\u2014nobody? \r\n\r\nDave (11:20):\r\n\r\nOr somebody outside that's inappropriate.\r\n\r\nDebra (11:23):\r\n\r\nSomebody else. Yeah. That's where it begins is having that comfort level to just be honest about how we feel.\r\n\r\nDave (11:29):\r\n\r\nAt the Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaway that we do at FamilyLife, we talk about level five communication, where one is sort of superficial, but five is like, \"I'm going to go and open my heart.\" So you're going there. Was that a struggle?\r\n\r\nJohn (11:45):\r\n\r\nIt was unnatural. My body's like, \"Hey, this is DEFCON 5, high alert here.\" And part of it too, we confess to each other. We confess sin. And at first, it's really awkward to say things you've done wrong.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:00):\r\n\r\nYeah. What's that look like? \u201cHey, it's time for you to confess your sin.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (12:02):\r\n\r\nAnn, you can't ask them about their sin. Is that what you're asking? \u201cHey, tell us about your sin.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (12:06):\r\n\r\nNo, I\u2019m just saying how did you get into that? Like, \u201cOh, it's your turn. Now it's my turn.\u201d\r\n\r\nJohn (12:10):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:10):\r\n\r\nHow did you decide that?\r\n\r\nDebra (12:12):\r\n\r\nI mean, you just begin to realize that it's easy to live in a way where you don't fully know each other, unless you're intentional about asking those questions.\r\n\r\n(12:20):\r\n\r\nAnd I am a therapist, but I was a newbie therapist at the time. So it's not like I had this extraordinary set of skills that the average person doesn't have. It was just a matter of \u201cWhat does it look like to connect with my spouse and to share my heart?\u201d James 5 tells us, \"Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you can be healed.\" It's like, I had accountability in college with some girlfriends, why can't we have that in our relationship? And what does that look like for each of us?\r\n\r\nAnn (12:53):\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s good I love that. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nSo does this mean there's no secrets?\r\n\r\nJohn (12:56):\r\n\r\nThere's no secrets. No. We're open with everything. So I mean, it started early, like, if I had an inappropriate thought or if I looked at a woman inappropriately, I told her. And you know what happens when you confess those things? You get freedom from them. And I realized if I have to tell her these things on Sunday night, you're highly motivated during the week to choose the right thing.\r\n\r\nAnn (13:20):\r\n\r\nOh, it's accountability.\r\n\r\nJohn (13:20):\r\n\r\nBecause you realize \u201cThis is what I'm going to share. This is how I'm going to feel. This is how I'm going to hurt my wife and it's going to make me feel horrible, and I'm wrong in doing this.\u201d And it helps you become\u2014that's why I say it's transformed our marriage, made me a better man, because you live in freedom, joy, and then the fullness that you get to experience of being fully known, fully loved, fully accepted is deeper than anything you could imagine. It's unbelievable.\r\n\r\nDave (13:46):\r\n\r\nNow, are there things that you think shouldn't be shared like emotionally or too far? \r\n\r\nDebra (13:54):\r\n\r\nWell, I always tell people that if your life is like a book, chapter by chapter, make sure that your spouse knows the summary. They don't have to know every sentence and every detail. Let's just even talk about that example of \u201cI had an inappropriate thought.\u201d Well, I don't have to know who it was and what you were thinking and all the nitty gritty details; or something in my past. I don't need to know exactly what you did and how you did it, but I just need to have a general idea of where you're struggling, and you need to have a general idea of where I'm struggling. It's accountability and it's also freedom. I think there's something here for the church as well, but what if it started in our marriages?\r\n\r\nRon Deal (14:41):\r\n\r\nHey friends, Ron Deal here. Did you know that for 50 years, FamilyLife has been working around the world and in your backyard to teach couples, parents, and families how to love God and love one another? And thousands of churches utilize a FamilyLife resource to teach biblical principles for life and love in their community. And thanks to people like you, this work continues to help people pursue the relationships that matter most with God and with others. Become a FamilyLife Partner today because right now every new monthly gift is matched for an entire year. Double your gift at FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-FLToday. That's 1-800-FLToday.\r\n\r\nDave (15:29):\r\n\r\nHere's a question for you, and you're a therapist, so I'd love to hear your thought. A husband tells his wife after he's prayed one night, \"I just prayed to God I'd rather be dead than married to you.\" Should he say that?\r\n\r\nAnn (15:42):\r\n\r\nThis was our conversation\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (15:43):\r\n\r\nThis was me.\r\n\r\nAnn (15:44):\r\n\r\n\u2014our first year of marriage.\r\n\r\nDebra (15:44):\r\n\r\nWere you the honest one? \r\n\r\nDave (15:46):\r\n\r\nI said that, and I said it because we were told before marriage share every thought you ever had. And when I came\u2014 \r\n\r\nDebra (15:53):\r\n\r\nI'm noticing some things about you, Dave. I really am.\r\n\r\nDave (15:57):\r\n\r\nOh, what are you noticing? I don't know if I want to hear it.\r\n\r\nDebra (15:59):\r\n\r\nI'm noticing a lot of spiritual lingo used to kind of tell her what you really needed to tell her. Remember when you said he brought you a list that he prayed about, and now you're praying again? \r\n\r\nAnn (16:12):\r\n\r\nHe's spiritually abusing me is what you're saying.\r\n\r\nDebra (16:14):\r\n\r\nHe's blaming God for a whole lot.\r\n\r\nDave (16:17):\r\n\r\nWell, the second it came out of my mouth\u2014this is in the first nine months of our marriage\u2014the second I said it, and I said it because we're supposed to be totally honest. I don't want to hide anything. As soon as it came out, I looked at her when I saw her face just drop. I was like, \"That was stupid.\" That's one of those things that I didn't need to be that specific about. I really had just said that because we were really struggling.\r\n\r\nDebra (16:39):\r\n\r\nYou were annoyed too. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nAnd that's the difference. I'm not sharing my honest opinion about what he needs to work on and change and what I don't like about him. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat's good. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nThis is an honest assessment of me\u2014what I'm doing, what I'm struggling with, where I'm at. It's not me assessing him. It's easy to be honest about assessing my spouse. Here's what you got to work on. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nYes. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nBut how\u2014the key to freedom, I think, is learning to give that honest assessment to ourselves\u2014taking the plank out of our own eye before we take the splinter out.\r\n\r\nAnn (17:10):\r\n\r\nAnd it's that vulnerability of exposing \u201cThis is who I am,\u201d and it's not pretty. And having our spouse continue to receive us is the gospel.\r\n\r\nDave (17:19):\r\n\r\nI think it's really cool that what you're modeling for us, and every couple, can be done by anybody. I mean, part of me is like, \"Well, you're a therapist, so you're really good at this.\" No, any husband and wife, if they have the guts and the courage to say, \"Let's do a check-in and be honest,\" this can really change their marriage.\r\n\r\nJohn (17:37):\r\n\r\nAnd I think a great starting point is you look at your own life and think about, what's one thing I want to do better in? Or what's one thing I want to get better in? If you're a parent who gets super angry, choose that. Just check in that week, say, \"Hey, how was\u2014I struggled with anger this week with the kids. I responded this way. Or when you told me this\u201d\u2014I think if you look at yourself, we each have one thing that we usually struggle with or tend to go to. That's a great starting point. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat's good. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nAnd it's not going to magically change one day. It's a process of years and years, and then it's also building in the accountability. So being open about things. One of the things that we talked about for protecting your interactions, like Deb and I are very deliberate about\u2014I haven't deleted my internet history the entire time I've had my computer for seven years.\r\n\r\n(18:26):\r\n\r\nShe has total freedom. She can look at my phone. She can look at my computer. I have nothing I'm afraid of her to see.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:32):\r\n\r\nSo we've gone from guarding your emotions. Now, you're looking at how you guard your actions. \r\n\r\nDebra (18:36):\r\n\r\nYour interactions with people.\r\n\r\nJohn (18:36):\r\n\r\nYour interactions.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:37):\r\n\r\nYour interactions, okay. And what about you, Deb? What's that look like? What else do you guys do?\r\n\r\nDebra (18:42):\r\n\r\nWell, just even in the ministry world, you're meeting a lot of people and there's so many opportunities to connect with people of the opposite sex. So we're always cautious about not accepting invitations where we're going to be alone with someone of the opposite sex. I mean, it's really not a big deal to throw in a third party. And it's not even because we're worried or we don't trust each other. Some of it also is just so that there's no opportunity for anyone else to think something might be happening that's not.\r\n\r\nAnn (19:12):\r\n\r\nNot even giving a hint.\r\n\r\nDebra (19:14):\r\n\r\nNot even a hint of an opportunity or a misunderstanding. So we're just really careful with interactions. If there's someone I'm interacting with on a regular basis via email or text, I'm always telling him what's going on. He's always telling me. We loop each other in. I mean, in marriage, you're one. Seeing that in the context of your interactions with people, it isn't weird to CC him into an email because we're one.\r\n\r\nAnn (19:40):\r\n\r\nDave and I do that all the time. I'll just include him on the text if it's with another guy and like, \"Hey, Dave's on this.\" And it's just become a habit for us. Some people think it's ridiculous, but you're right, we're one and my world is Dave's world, and we don't want to disclude one another from that. And the last one, you talk about time, like guarding your time. What's that look like?\r\n\r\nDebra (20:01):\r\n\r\nThis is the trickiest one and I think something that we struggle with the most in the world, because within seconds you can be on your phone in the same room but doing completely different things. John can be playing chess. I can be on Instagram, and the time passes just like that. So I think protecting your time is one of the most important things that you can do for your relationship.\r\n\r\nAnn (20:23):\r\n\r\nWe really have struggled with this just because screen time is just so accessible where it's in our hands. We can work, we can do emails, we can play games, and we have found that to be isolating at times. So you're saying the same thing.\r\n\r\nDave (20:37):\r\n\r\nSo how do you do it?\r\n\r\nJohn (20:38):\r\n\r\nYeah. I think it's realizing that anytime you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. You just be aware of the choices you're making. So with technology, I try sometimes\u2014and I'm guilty of this. I'm on my phone in the evenings checking things, but being deliberate about, \u201cOkay, this next hour through dinner, whatever, I'm putting my phone on the desk.\u201d There's nothing really urgent I actually have to get to. I don't need to know this fact on Google immediately. I can wait. So it's putting our phone away.\r\n\r\nAnn (21:06):\r\n\r\nYou don't need to know what the score is of the game at that moment. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nExactly.\r\n\r\nDave (21:09):\r\n\r\nI'm not even going to look over there.\r\n\r\nJohn (21:12):\r\n\r\nHe's like, \"That's why I have the watch app.\" \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nExactly. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\n\u201cI can look indiscreetly.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave (21:16):\r\n\r\n\u201cJust checking the time, honey.\u201d\r\n\r\nDebra (21:18):\r\n\r\nHilarious.\r\n\r\n(21:20):\r\n\r\nThe other thing too is just learning to do things together, like our hobbies, instead of having separate hobbies, doing things that we both like. I did a survey of a thousand married couples and over 50% of them said they have separate hobbies and interests. Think about how much time is spent in separate things with the little time you have that you could actually be doing something together. So we've learned to take up things that the other likes, or learn about something that the other person likes, or do something together that's new for both of us and just kind of learning to guard our time in that way.\r\n\r\nAnn (21:53):\r\n\r\nI felt like I should probably start playing golf, ugh.\r\n\r\nDave (21:58):\r\n\r\nYou don't have to play golf. Tennis is good enough for me. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nAll right.\r\n\r\nDebra (22:00):\r\n\r\nOr you can both take up something new together. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nThat's true.\r\n\r\nJohn (22:03):\r\n\r\nAnd it also looks really different in different seasons. When I was working, at one point in my training, a hundred hours a week, we had young children under five\u2014the reality is when you have no time, you have no time for hobbies. So you need to accept I can't go out golfing for six hours. That's just a poor choice that's going to separate me from my wife. So when you don't have time, you don't have separate time. That's just the reality. And I think sometimes as Americans, we try to squeeze everything in, go, go, go, go. We don't pause and stop. And that's where we tried to be deliberate about choosing hobbies together. Like we'll go for walks, we'll go hiking. I love playing chess, random game. She learned how to play chess so she could play with me. \r\n\r\nDebra (22:43):\r\n\r\nI don't love it, but I've learned how to do it. \r\n\r\nAnn (22:45):\r\n\r\nLook at you though. That's awesome.\r\n\r\nJohn (22:47):\r\n\r\nYeah. And I think ultimately this idea of trust, the fruit of it is that you end up experiencing the deepest joy, pleasure, satisfaction, greater than any of these other things appear to give you, but you get to experience in your marriage.\r\n\r\nDave (23:01):\r\n\r\nWell, I mean, I think as I'm listening, the whole idea of protecting your marriage, when you choose to do that, it builds trust. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nThat's probably the biggest thing I'm hearing is like when you say, \u201cMy life is not mine, it's ours,\u201d and so my interactions, you're going to know. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nMy internet history, you're going to know; my conversation with other people, my time, my emotions\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (23:24):\r\n\r\nMy emotions, yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (23:26):\r\n\r\n\u2014that builds trust, and a marriage has to be built on trust. And if I'm withholding that, that creates distrust and then the marriage starts to fall apart. So what a great gift this conversation, I think, has been for couples to say, \u201cOkay, you have given us really practical\u2014\u201d I mean, even if couples just said, \"Okay, let's start with the Sunday night or Monday night, whatever you want to do\u2014\r\n\r\nDebra (23:46):\r\n\r\nYeah, whatever night works, or day.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:47):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (23:47):\r\n\r\n\u2014do a check-in and say, \"I'm going to be open with my heart and my life to you.\" That's going to start something new in a marriage that could save the marriage.\r\n\r\nDebra (23:56):\r\n\r\nEvery single one is like a string, a new string that connects you to your spouse. The more you have, the more deliberate you have, the stronger your marriage is in the end.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:04):\r\n\r\nAnd I love that you guys have been incredibly intentional about your relationship and about your family. It's inspiring to see how God's using you. \r\n\r\nJohn and Debra:\r\n\r\nThank you.\r\n\r\nDave (24:12):\r\n\r\nAnd I love having John on the broadcast. \r\n\r\nAnn:\r\n\r\nYeah, John!\r\n\r\nDebra (24:15):\r\n\r\nThank you guys. \r\n\r\nDave:\r\n\r\nYou were awesome. \r\n\r\nDebra:\r\n\r\nThanks for having us. \r\n\r\nJohn:\r\n\r\nThanks for having us.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:21):\r\n\r\nOkay, I love these guys.\r\n\r\nDave (24:23):\r\n\r\nDebra's amazing. She's been in here several times, but when you get John, her husband, to come in with her, it's like the jackpot.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:29):\r\n\r\nIt is. And Debra's book is called Choosing Marriage: Why It Has to Start with We&amp;gt;Me.\r\n\r\nDave (24:36):\r\n\r\nAnd you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/318414","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=318414"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/295627"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=318414"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=318414"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=318414"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=318414"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=318414"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=318414"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}