{"id":318344,"date":"2026-04-20T04:42:28","date_gmt":"2026-04-20T08:42:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/friendship-drew-hunter\/"},"modified":"2026-04-20T04:42:30","modified_gmt":"2026-04-20T08:42:30","slug":"friendship-drew-hunter","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/friendship-drew-hunter\/","title":{"rendered":"Friendship: Drew Hunter"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Isn\u2019t friendship kind of\u2026optional? Author Drew Hunter proposes a solution to the nationwide epidemic of loneliness. He digs into the scriptural plea for authentic friendship, and how, exactly, to make friendships you can\u2019t live without.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is friendship optional? On FamilyLife Today with Dave and Ann Wilson, Author Drew Hunter digs into the scriptural plea for real friendship.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":295627,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/b676d63c-b2a4-47c7-b30e-b42d014f61db\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.85M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2826,2093],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8671],"cwp_profile":[9885],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-318344","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-men","category-women","podcast_series-made-for-friendship-drew-hunter","cwp_profile-drew-hunter","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/318344\/friendship-drew-hunter","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/318344\/friendship-drew-hunter","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"9jSbQJx0PP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/friendship-drew-hunter\/\">Friendship: Drew Hunter<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/friendship-drew-hunter\/embed\/#?secret=9jSbQJx0PP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Friendship: Drew Hunter&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"9jSbQJx0PP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["b676d63c-b2a4-47c7-b30e-b42d014f61db"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/b676d63c-b2a4-47c7-b30e-b42d014f61db\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:24:55"],"filesize":["22.85M"],"_thumbnail_id":["295627"],"show_notes":["\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Drew Hunter and read his articles \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.crossway.org\/articles\/7-tips-for-being-a-good-friend\/\">7 Tips on being a good friend<\/a> \" and \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.crossway.org\/articles\/4-guiding-principles-for-cultivating-friendship\/?srsltid=AfmBOoqSNEbz18XPy3du5D0iSjsUfa-QjzHsrZFZumnOqAO4_Lmgyd72\">4 steps on Cultivating True Friendship<\/a>\"<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/made-for-friendship-the-relationship-that-halves-our-sorrows-and-doubles-our-joys\/\">And grab his book, \"Made for Friendship\" in our shop.<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nFriendship\r\n\r\nGuest:Drew Hunter\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Made for Friendship (Day 1 of 2)\r\n\r\nAir date:April 20, 2026\r\n\r\nDrew (00:04):\r\n\r\nWe are, in some ways, the most connected generation ever\u2014social media and the internet, and ways of connecting over text messages and phone calls\u2014never have people been able to connect this quickly with this many people. And yet, we are the most disconnected generation as well.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:28):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave (00:34):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:47):\r\n\r\nDid you have a best friend, growing up?\r\n\r\nDave (00:51):\r\n\r\nI knew you were going to ask me that. I literally thought\u2014the first name came to my mind\u2014Marty Jordan.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:57):\r\n\r\nYou've had so many friends; you always have a friend. You didn\u2019t have a best friend?\r\n\r\nDave (01:01):\r\n\r\nI was in New Jersey; and then, Mom and Dad divorced. I ended up in Ohio, and Marty Jordan was one of my best friends all the way through college. And then, he passed. You don't even know Marty.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:14):\r\n\r\nI met him.\r\n\r\nDave (01:15):\r\n\r\nI know that his mom listens. I've gotten direct messages, every once in a while, from his mom.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:21):\r\n\r\nI feel like you're unusual in that you've always had really good friends. My dad and my brothers\u2014I have two brothers and my dad\u2014they were really good friends with one another, but they really didn't have many friends. I thought you were really unique, because you had so many male friends. \r\n\r\nDave (01:39):\r\n\r\nI do remember when Jim, your brother's son, came up for a while\u2014like a week\u2014and stayed with us in Michigan. Remember what he said?\r\n\r\nAnn (01:46):\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave (01:46):\r\n\r\nHe goes, \"You have guys coming over like every other day. I've never seen anything quite like that.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (01:49):\r\n\r\nYeah; \u201cPeople are walking in the door all the time. What's going on?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (01:53):\r\n\r\nI love that! \r\n\r\nToday, we're talking about friendship, obviously. We've got Drew Hunter in the studio. I guess you're the expert on friendship? \r\n\r\nDrew (02:00):\r\n\r\nI don't know if I'd call myself an expert; but I've thought about it a lot, and care about it a lot, and want to help other people think and care about it.\r\n\r\nDave (02:07):\r\n\r\nYou've done a lot of thinking on a topic a lot of people don't do a lot of thinking on. Your book is called Made for Friendship: The Relationship that Halves Our Sorrows and Doubles Our Joys. \r\n\r\nI'll ask you what Ann just asked me: \u201cDid you have a best friend, growing up?\u201d\r\n\r\nDrew (02:22):\r\n\r\nI did. Although, I think, as you were talking, I was thinking about two who were probably both my best friends: Derek and Brett. I grew up in Northern Illinois when I was younger. They were in my neighborhood, and we had a lot of woods around us. We just spent a lot of time growing up, as friends. There's some goofy pictures of us. \r\n\r\nDave (02:44):\r\n\r\nHow about today?\r\n\r\nDrew (02:47):\r\n\r\nI think, if I was to say one person was my best friend, it'd be my brother, Trent, who's become my closest friend. But I kind of intentionally don't think about someone as a best friend; because I have several who are close. At least, for me, I don't want to pick one over others. I have several I'm really close to and have unique relationships with.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:05):\r\n\r\nAnd when you say that, as a woman, you're afraid that it's going to hurt your other friends\u2019 feelings. \r\n\r\nDave: Really? \r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah. \r\n\r\nWell, Drew, you're married; and you have four sons. \r\n\r\nDrew: Yep. \r\n\r\nAnn: Do you want your sons to have friends?\r\n\r\nDrew (03:16):\r\n\r\nYes. We talk about that a lot, about choosing friends wisely. We talk about kids at school. We want them to have a mindset that they're friendly with everyone; so there's not going to be a sense of: \"Well, you're not my friend; therefore, I shouldn't care about you.\" \r\n\r\nIt takes a lot of wisdom to pick your friends well, because you become like your friends. We see that happening in their life already. So we want them to have good friends; to be good friends; and to think about that, growing up.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:40):\r\n\r\nWhy'd you write about this?\r\n\r\nDrew (03:42):\r\n\r\nA few reasons. When I first started thinking about the topic, it was about probably 12 or 13 years ago now. I was teaching through Proverbs. I sat down, with the book of Proverbs, and just would read through it and collect themes. I wanted to say: \"What are the most prominent themes in Proverbs?\u201d and \u201cI'll collect what Proverbs says about it and teach on those themes.\" \r\n\r\nI was not expecting friendship to be part of the list. I was expecting money, words\u2014from reading through Proverbs over the years\u2014I had just not seen just how significant friendship was in particular. Even relationships\u2014I was thinking about loving people, loving your neighbor, marriage relationships, those kinds of things\u2014but I was struck by how many very specific and striking things Proverbs said about friendship. \r\n\r\nI started to study it. And then, as I was studying that week, it drew me to John 15, where Jesus calls His disciples friends. I just realized, \u201cMy goodness, I've read this, who knows how many times. I have a category for it, at some level; but I have not really taken this as seriously and internalized this as I should.\u201d\r\n\r\n(04:47) That week was really pivotal for me. And then, after that, I just kept thinking about friendship. I had friends, growing up. Through my life, I valued friendships; but I realized: \u201cI've not really thought about it, or thought about it deeply, or much at all.\u201d I think that week I realized: \u201cI've never spent five straight minutes thinking, intentionally, about this. I've read books about marriage, and parenting now; but never read anything on friendship, never had conversations or heard lectures or sermons directly on friendship.\u201d \r\n\r\nI started talking to people about this and realized their experience was the same. We all really value friendship; but we realized, after thinking about it\u2014I had one friend, who said to me, [as]I was talking to him about this\u2014after we started talking for a few minutes, said, \"I'm a really lousy friend.\" That's common. I disagreed with him, because he's one of my friends; he's a great friend. But we do realize that, without intentionality, there are gaps in our lives here. \r\n\r\n(05:31) Those are a few things. And then, over time, why it ended up being a book is because just noticing that there really weren't, at the time, many resources at all, from a biblical Christian perspective on friendship. It seemed to be lacking\u2014and then, we continue to be in a steep decline in just experiencing friendship\u2014plenty of studies show that. All those things came together to create the need for this book a few years ago.\r\n\r\nAnn (06:02):\r\n\r\nI've talked to so many wives. We'll talk about our friendship, and we'll talk about our husband's friendship. I can't tell you how many wives say: \"My husband says he doesn't need any friends,\u201d and \u201cI'm his only friend,\u201d and \u201cI'm the only friend that he needs.\" Have you heard that before, Dave?\r\n\r\nDave (06:18):\r\n\r\nYeah; we were talking earlier that: 30 years of preaching, I bet I did a message or two a year on friendship or community; [we\u2019re] made for friendship, made for community. I remember a stat\u2014I tried to find it\u2014years ago, that there was a study done of American men. If I'm remembering it right, it said nine out of ten American men say they do not have one true friend.\r\n\r\nDrew (06:43):\r\n\r\nWow.\r\n\r\nDave (06:44):\r\n\r\nThey have a lot of acquaintances, work buddies. It was interesting: the study went on to say, when they were boys, they had friends; but as they grew into men, and got involved in their lives, and marriages, and things, it's not something the average American guy\u2014I don't know how it compares to other men around the world\u2014but in America, we, often, don't have a real, what we call a real friendship. Did you find that as well?\r\n\r\nDrew (07:10):\r\n\r\nYeah; in fact, I remember someone making a joke, at one point, when I was talking about friendship. He said, \"Yeah, we have this newly-found miracle of Jesus: He had \r\n\r\n12 close friends in His 30s.\" \r\n\r\nAnn: Wow! \r\n\r\nDrew: Because it's just so rare. We have it early in life. If you go to college, college can often be a pressure cooker for friendship; because you have so many overlapping spheres of life\u2014where the people you go to church with, or in ministry with, or have class with, or where you live\u2014overlap. And then, we get out of college; and then, we move around. There's so many factors that lead to it, but we end up friendless. \r\n\r\nA lot of studies are showing those kinds of statistics, where they'll just interview a lot of people. Cigna Health Insurance did a study, a number of years ago; and they found that half of the people would say that their relationships aren't really meaningful to them. Something like 40 percent said that no one really knows them at all, which is another way of saying they don't actually have a friend\u2014or even a family member\u2014they consider that close. So 40 percent are saying, candidly: \u201cNo one really knows me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (08:10):\r\n\r\nYou tell me, because you just wrote about this: \u201cAre we living in one of the loneliest times in history?\u201d\r\n\r\nDrew (08:18):\r\n\r\nI think so. I think others can point to that; I think studies would show that. What's really unique about this though is that we are, in some ways, the most connected generation ever\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (08:28):\r\n\r\nYeah, with our devices.\r\n\r\nDrew (08:29):\r\n\r\nAbsolutely\u2014social media and the internet, and ways of connecting over text messages and phone calls\u2014never have people been able to connect this quickly with this many people. And yet, we are the most disconnected generation as well. We're the most connected, disconnected generation because studies are showing we don't actually have real life-on-life, face-to-face, heart-on-heart, soul-on-soul friendships. We're in a really unique position right now.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:57):\r\n\r\nSo why is it important? Teach us; you've done all this study. I think wives are like, \"This is important, and I want my husband to hear it. \" \r\n\r\nDave (09:05):\r\n\r\nWait, wait. Why are we talking just about \u201c\u2026my husband to hear it\u201d? You don't think women need to hear it as well?\r\n\r\nAnn (09:11):\r\n\r\nYeah, I think we do, too. I think women are lonelier than they have been in the past, too. We all get so busy\u2014we're taking care\u2014you guys know: we're taking care of our kids; we're going to church; we're in our jobs; and we think, \u201cDo [I] have enough time for friends?\u201d \r\n\r\nI'm just talking about the women that I know and talk to: they feel bad for their husbands, so I'm going to hit the husbands a little bit.\r\n\r\nDave (09:36):\r\n\r\nOkay; hit the husbands.\r\n\r\nDrew (09:37):\r\n\r\nIt certainly is an issue for both genders, and in different ages and spheres of life. There's a lot of angles that you can look at friendship to see our need for it. If you just start at Page 1 of the Bible, you see our need for it. God creates this wonder world. He creates these different realms of sky, land, sea\u2014fills it with communal life\u2014gets to the sixth day and creates humanity. He makes humanity in His image; and then, they're called to go fill the world with communal fruitful life and joy. That's the commission for Adam and Eve to do: to fill the world with human society and friendship. \r\n\r\n(10:22) But what's interesting\u2014in those first pages of the Bible\u2014God says He makes humanity in His own image; and He speaks of Himself in the plural: \u201cLet Us make man in Our image.\u201d Now, we don't explicitly see the trinity there; but we see that God is a plurality. It doesn't take long, reading the Bible, we find out Father, Son, and Spirit have made humanity in the image, then, of a triune God.\r\n\r\n(10:35) Before there was creation, or any men or women, there was God: Father, Son,  and Spirit as an eternal fellowship of love. God\u2014Richard Sibbes, a Puritan, put it this way\u2014he said that God has a spreading goodness. He spreads His goodness, which means He didn't create anything because He had a lack or a need; but because He wanted to share the fullness of His life and blessing. He creates humanity in His image\u2014the image of a communal God\u2014not because He needed us, but because He wanted to bless us. One of the blessings is to be made in the image of a God Who loves fellowship and community, this triune God of love. Humanity is made with this need to experience the fullness of joy in community with God and with one another. So we see that just on Page 1.\r\n\r\n(11:23) And then, Chapter 2 rewinds into the sixth day of creation to talk about how that actually happened. When you read the first story of creation in Genesis 1, you see that God made humanity, Adam and Eve; everything's very good. And then, Genesis 2 rewinds into that day; and then, shows the process. He started with Adam\u2014He started just with one\u2014Eve's not made yet. He says about Adam: \"It is not good that man should be alone.\"\r\n\r\n(11:51) What's so striking about that is that, so far, we've just heard everything's \u201cgood,\u201d \u201cgood,\u201d \u201cgood,\u201d \u201cvery good.\u201d And then, now, we rewind back into the sixth day and realize that there's a moment when something was not good; so He makes Eve, not just as a spouse, but as a friend to create a world of friendship. \r\n\r\nWhat's also interesting here is that Adam hasn't sinned yet. So the first problem in human history that God solves is that of companionship and friendship before sin's even here: \u201cIt's not good that man should be alone.\u201d That's a strong statement for why we need friendship. We're made in the image of a God of love; we're made for friendship. God Himself says, \u201cIt's not good to be alone.\u201d \r\n\r\n(12:35) And then, you can go from there and see all the problems that happen when we are alone. Proverbs says that the one who isolates himself breaks out against all understanding and reason. We see what happens when people are put in solitary confinement. That's just a little picture of what we're all experiencing when we are lonely and isolated in life.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:47):\r\n\r\nThe thing that I was thinking, too, as you were talking, Drew, was Scripture\u2014how God, as He talks about His people, the Israelites\u2014the Sabbath\/the Shabbat is always together with people. He has so many celebrations where people are together. Food, when we eat\u2014there's this beauty of when we come together and we eat\u2014it's good for our souls. I think that, if that's demonstrated in the Scriptures.\r\n\r\nDrew (13:13):\r\n\r\nRight. Yeah, I agree.\r\n\r\nDave (13:15):\r\n\r\nOne of the things I've done every year is fast. I used to do a two-week fast before Easter. \r\n\r\nWhat are you laughing about?\r\n\r\nAnn (13:23):\r\n\r\nI think I know where you're going with this.\r\n\r\nDave (13:25):\r\n\r\nI don't know if you know where I'm going. \r\n\r\nWhat made me think of it is when you said eating with people is something you enjoy. One of the hardest things about fasting is that goes away. I can sit at a table with people, who are eating; and I'm really mad at them, because they're eating and I'm not. But most of the time, you don't sit down with people during that fast, which is obviously a different\u2014you're doing a spiritual discipline\u2014but I never thought of that\u2014when I first said, \u201cI'm going to fast\u201d; that I'm going to miss community. God has hardwired every human being to long for and need community.\r\n\r\nAnn (14:00):\r\n\r\nThat's why I was laughing; I thought, \u201cI love it when you fast, but I also hate it; because, \u2018Oh, this is no fun; we can't eat together!\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nDrew (14:08):\r\n\r\nYou know what's interesting about that is, when you fast from food, you end up appreciating food more and appreciating people. I think God has made food partly for the sake of friendship and community; I think you can make a biblical case for that. \r\n\r\nWhat's interesting, too, is\u2014I was reading a book the past couple weeks\u2014on the way that the digital world has influenced us\u2014technology, and social media, and our addiction to our phones and all these things. I was really surprised about one part of his book, where he talked about solitude being really important; it was actually important for friendship and community. It was surprising because we wouldn't think that; it's like, \u201cWe'll be around people.\u201d He said, actually, we need solitude. We don't have solitude anymore because our minds\u2014and it's not just being alone\u2014it's giving space for your minds to not be occupied doing something, even checking your phone, checking your mail, checking the news, checking social media. Our mind no longer has opportunity to relax and do what it does when it doesn't have things going on, like it has for human history. \r\n\r\n(15:22) He said when\u2014and there's studies that show this about what's going on in the brain\u2014when your mind doesn't have a task to do, it defaults into using a part of your brain that thinks socially. It's even measured in infants, so this is just hardwired. Our mind defaults to think about our relationships. I thought, \u201cThat's so interesting\u201d; because, recently, I'll go out on my deck and just sit there by myself on some evenings or make a fire. \r\n\r\nDave (15:33):\r\n\r\nWait, wait. You got four boys and you get to sit on a deck by yourself?\r\n\r\nDrew (15:36):\r\n\r\nIt's at like 9 at night; it's already dark, and I'm exhausted. I'll get it for a little bit, and I'll make a fire. I start thinking about friendships; and actually, valuing them more. That's the point in this book, actually, is that our digital addictions are making friendships worse\u2014not just because we're spending time away from friends, kind of connecting in superficial ways\u2014but because we don't have time for solitude, where we actually think about our relationships and value them more. I inevitably find myself calling a friend, or just thinking about my friends and valuing them when I am alone. \r\n\r\nThere is a balance we need. Actually, solitude can help us engage with friends, not just being alone with our phone, but actually reflecting on life. Perhaps one of our lacks of friendship in life is partly because we don't even have this space anymore in this culture to think about what's valuable, what's important in life: \u201cWhat do I want to spend my time doing?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (16:30):\r\n\r\nYou know, before we continue, let me just say this to the listener: at FamilyLife, we really believe strong families can change the world. And when you become a FamilyLife Partner, you help make that happen.\r\n\r\nAnn (16:41):\r\n\r\nAnd I don't know if you realize this: your monthly gift helps us equip marriages and families with biblical tools that they can count on.\r\n\r\nDave (16:49):\r\n\r\nNow, that's a pretty good deal. And we also want to send you exclusive updates, behind-the-scenes access, and an invitation to our Private Partner Community, which is pretty cool. So join us, and let's reach families and marriages together.\r\n\r\nAnn (17:02):\r\n\r\nYou can go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click the \u201cDonate\u201d button to join today.\r\n\r\nDave (17:12):\r\n\r\nSince I left the pastorate after 30 years\u2014Ann has heard me say this\u2014it's like, \u201cWow, I'm lonelier now than I've ever been.\u201d It's a sense that I don't go to a\u2014we used to go to the office every day\u2014and there's all these staff and people around. There's the other side\u2014\"I don't want to be around any of these people. They bug me, and I bug them,\u201d but you're around people every day. \r\n\r\nNow, we're in a world that's a little different. A lot of what Ann and I do is alone. We have each other, which is awesome; but I'm not around as many men as I used to be. How do you\u2014a guy like me; or even\u2014you're in a different stage of life, so you're probably around people a lot; and you're sort of like I was like, \"I want to get away for the solitude bite.\" But if you're a person, who doesn't have a lot of friendships\u2014man or woman\u2014how would you encourage them? How do you develop that?\r\n\r\nDrew (18:02):\r\n\r\nYeah, there's a lot of things that you can do. One of the things is just making sure you do value it properly and just recognize this is a non-negotiable in life. Seeing that work is important; family's important, if you have one; certainly, marriage should be your best friend\/best friendship, but not your only friendship. Recognizing that you need to make it a non-negotiable; and then, building in space for it. There's a lot of things you can do. \r\n\r\nI think one of the things you can do is schedule it. Just think about the non-negotiables in life; everyone has them:\r\n\r\nEating.\r\n\r\nFor some people, exercising.\r\n\r\nReading the Bible and prayer.\r\n\r\nWork.\r\n\r\nEating as a family.\r\n\r\nIf those things are important, you build your life around them. You have predictable rhythms and times that you do them. \r\n\r\nFriendship should be just put into our calendars like that, too. There's a lot of ways you can do it. My wife and I will often have seasons where we just reserve one evening a week, a Wednesday or Thursday, when we put hospitality on our calendar. We're going to invite people over and spend time. We have that reserved for people to be in our home, either for dinner\u2014although, in our family life, it's a bit crazier now\u2014so we wait until a little bit later for dessert, or drinks, or something afterward. Or you can say, \u201cLunch\u201d\u2014during my work week\u2014\"I'm going to have lunch with this person every week.\u201d\r\n\r\n(19:18) Or you have it open with someone\u2014you just know: \u201cOn Mondays, I have lunch with a friend,\u201d\u2014and then, you schedule it that way. I have coffee, every other week, with a friend of mine at about 3:30 on Tuesdays right now. That's where we spend time getting together throughout the weeks and have a lot of conversations in everyday life, but we've just made sure to reserve that time to make sure we're talking openly and honestly about struggles in life, challenges in life, things we're encouraged about, confessing sin to one another, all of those things. \r\n\r\nScheduling it is a huge one. There's a lot of steps, but those would be a couple that would be first ones to take.\r\n\r\nDave (19:53):\r\n\r\nOne thing, even as you say that, I think, \u201cHow often does the typical guy\u201d\u2014and I don't know if women feel the same way\u2014I've said this: \u201cI got to work out. I got to get three workouts\/four workouts in a week.\u201d I don't think I've ever said, \"I got to meet with a buddy.\" Like you said\u2014\u201cWe're made for friendship,\u201d\u2014so it's that important.\r\n\r\nAnn (20:13):\r\n\r\nI have; I\u2019ve thought that, Dave, because I know\u2014for my emotional wellbeing and spiritual wellbeing\u2014I need to be with my friends. I have to have somebody, besides you, who knows everything about me, that I can be incredibly vulnerable with. I can tell them secrets; I can tell them things that I'm struggling with. I can tell them how I'm frustrated with Dave, and they're going to pray.\r\n\r\nDave (20:35):\r\n\r\nI even told her one year: I said, \"Go ahead, tell them how much of an idiot I am.\" \r\n\r\nAnn (20:40):\r\n\r\nHe said that; he\u2019s the pastor!\r\n\r\nDave (20:40):\r\n\r\n\u201cYou don't have to cover it up.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (20:43):\r\n\r\nI'm like, \"So you're saying\u2014you're the pastor of the church\u2014and you're saying I can tell my friends anything?\" You go, \"Yep, you can just go ahead and tell them.\" I thought that was incredibly humble of you.\r\n\r\nDave (20:52):\r\n\r\nWhat about married couples? Do you think they need other married couples as friends?\r\n\r\nDrew (20:57):\r\n\r\nYes, other married couples; yes. And even just the man having other friends, who are men, and the women having other friends, who are women; I think both\/and are really important. I know that some people get married; I've heard plenty of stories where both people have friends, who then get really hurt; because they're just cut out of life, because the couple gets married; and then, they put all of their friendship into that marriage. Other people are hurt by that.\r\n\r\n(21:21) And then, something happens down the road; and the marriage ends for all sorts of reasons; and eventually, death as long\u2014might be a sobering thought\u2014but unless the Lord takes them at the same time, one of them is going to be unmarried again. That's devastating if you have no other friends; it's not the way it was supposed to be. We're supposed to enjoy rich friendship. \r\n\r\nI think even having other friends\u2014both couples and even just men, having other men as friends, and women having other women as friends\u2014strengthens the marriage. Christina and I have a stronger marriage because we also have our friendships, that we even free each other up for; because I'm a better man, and a better husband, and a better father, because I have friends that help me become a better man, and husband, and father. She grows from her friendships, as well. We bring that to our marriage. And then, we, of course, can enjoy other couples together, as well, if it fits.\r\n\r\nDave (22:16):\r\n\r\nHey, Drew, I was thinking to end this conversation this way. There's a guy listening\u2014husband, dad; and of course, it could be a woman, as well\u2014but I'm thinking of the guy, who\u2019s saying, \"I agree. In fact, Drew's convinced me today the theology of friendship is real; it's Scriptural. I need to have friends in my life. I really don't have any. What do I do?\" What would you tell him to do?\r\n\r\nDrew (22:40):\r\n\r\nA couple things. One, ask God for friends.\r\n\r\nAnn (22:43):\r\n\r\nPray.\r\n\r\nDrew (22:44):\r\n\r\nThe Lord made you for friends. He orders everyone's lives; He can bring friends into your life. Pray, and ask the Lord, \"Would You bring me a friend? You made me for this. I need this. Please help.\" \r\n\r\n(23:02) And then, I would say focus, not so much on finding a friend, but on being a good friend. As you're around people, just open up conversation\u2014focus on them, ask questions, love people well, be interested\u2014be an encourager rather than a critical person, which keeps people from even wanting to be your friend. Don't be a gossip\u2014all the things of basic\u2014\u201cFollow Jesus; become like Him; be a good friend to people.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd then, pray that the Lord would use that to bring friends into your life. It's different than\u2014\"I'm going to do this on my own,\u201d and \u201cI'm going to get a good friend. I'm looking for people who are good friends for me,\u201d\u2014that just won't work.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:32):\r\n\r\nI like that advice; because especially, with women\u2014I've talked to women, saying, \u201cNobody will be my friend,\u201d\u2014I like what you said. Even when I read that of: \u201cBecome a good friend; become someone who\u2019s loving people, praying for them: \u2018How can I pray for you?\u2019 Start there, and pray.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (23:47):\r\n\r\nIt's easy to be the victim.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:48):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (23:49):\r\n\r\nEven when I would preach on this, I would think, \u201cThere's some people, thinking, \u2018Well, nobody's ever reached out to me.\u2019\" It's like, \u201cYou know what? You reach out. You initiate, and God will answer that prayer.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (24:03):\r\n\r\nThis is FamilyLife Today. What did you think about that with Drew Hunter?\r\n\r\nDave (24:06):\r\n\r\nGreat stuff. And by the way, you want to get his book; it's called Made for Friendship: The Relationship That Halves Our Sorrows and Doubles Our Joys. And that is exactly what you experience with real friendship.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:19):\r\n\r\nOh, it's so important.\r\n\r\nDave (24:22):\r\n\r\nGo to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the link in the show notes to buy that book. We're going to have Drew back with us tomorrow.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:29):\r\n\r\nWe would love to pray for you\u2014I would, personally, love to pray for you\u2014and we even have a team at FamilyLife who can pray for you. Just go to FamilyLife.com\/PrayForMe.\r\n\r\nDave (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nCelebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-04-20.pdf"],"ssp_guid":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/friendship-drew-hunter\/"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{max-width: 100%;width: 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friendship optional? On FamilyLife Today with Dave and Ann Wilson, Author Drew Hunter digs into the scriptural plea for real friendship.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Drew Hunter and read his articles \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.crossway.org\/articles\/7-tips-for-being-a-good-friend\/\">7 Tips on being a good friend<\/a> \" and \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.crossway.org\/articles\/4-guiding-principles-for-cultivating-friendship\/?srsltid=AfmBOoqSNEbz18XPy3du5D0iSjsUfa-QjzHsrZFZumnOqAO4_Lmgyd72\">4 steps on Cultivating True Friendship<\/a>\"<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/made-for-friendship-the-relationship-that-halves-our-sorrows-and-doubles-our-joys\/\">And grab his book, \"Made for Friendship\" in our shop.<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-04-20.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nFriendship\r\n\r\nGuest:Drew Hunter\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Made for Friendship (Day 1 of 2)\r\n\r\nAir date:April 20, 2026\r\n\r\nDrew (00:04):\r\n\r\nWe are, in some ways, the most connected generation ever\u2014social media and the internet, and ways of connecting over text messages and phone calls\u2014never have people been able to connect this quickly with this many people. And yet, we are the most disconnected generation as well.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:28):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave (00:34):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:47):\r\n\r\nDid you have a best friend, growing up?\r\n\r\nDave (00:51):\r\n\r\nI knew you were going to ask me that. I literally thought\u2014the first name came to my mind\u2014Marty Jordan.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:57):\r\n\r\nYou've had so many friends; you always have a friend. You didn\u2019t have a best friend?\r\n\r\nDave (01:01):\r\n\r\nI was in New Jersey; and then, Mom and Dad divorced. I ended up in Ohio, and Marty Jordan was one of my best friends all the way through college. And then, he passed. You don't even know Marty.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:14):\r\n\r\nI met him.\r\n\r\nDave (01:15):\r\n\r\nI know that his mom listens. I've gotten direct messages, every once in a while, from his mom.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:21):\r\n\r\nI feel like you're unusual in that you've always had really good friends. My dad and my brothers\u2014I have two brothers and my dad\u2014they were really good friends with one another, but they really didn't have many friends. I thought you were really unique, because you had so many male friends. \r\n\r\nDave (01:39):\r\n\r\nI do remember when Jim, your brother's son, came up for a while\u2014like a week\u2014and stayed with us in Michigan. Remember what he said?\r\n\r\nAnn (01:46):\r\n\r\nYeah. \r\n\r\nDave (01:46):\r\n\r\nHe goes, \"You have guys coming over like every other day. I've never seen anything quite like that.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (01:49):\r\n\r\nYeah; \u201cPeople are walking in the door all the time. What's going on?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (01:53):\r\n\r\nI love that! \r\n\r\nToday, we're talking about friendship, obviously. We've got Drew Hunter in the studio. I guess you're the expert on friendship? \r\n\r\nDrew (02:00):\r\n\r\nI don't know if I'd call myself an expert; but I've thought about it a lot, and care about it a lot, and want to help other people think and care about it.\r\n\r\nDave (02:07):\r\n\r\nYou've done a lot of thinking on a topic a lot of people don't do a lot of thinking on. Your book is called Made for Friendship: The Relationship that Halves Our Sorrows and Doubles Our Joys. \r\n\r\nI'll ask you what Ann just asked me: \u201cDid you have a best friend, growing up?\u201d\r\n\r\nDrew (02:22):\r\n\r\nI did. Although, I think, as you were talking, I was thinking about two who were probably both my best friends: Derek and Brett. I grew up in Northern Illinois when I was younger. They were in my neighborhood, and we had a lot of woods around us. We just spent a lot of time growing up, as friends. There's some goofy pictures of us. \r\n\r\nDave (02:44):\r\n\r\nHow about today?\r\n\r\nDrew (02:47):\r\n\r\nI think, if I was to say one person was my best friend, it'd be my brother, Trent, who's become my closest friend. But I kind of intentionally don't think about someone as a best friend; because I have several who are close. At least, for me, I don't want to pick one over others. I have several I'm really close to and have unique relationships with.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:05):\r\n\r\nAnd when you say that, as a woman, you're afraid that it's going to hurt your other friends\u2019 feelings. \r\n\r\nDave: Really? \r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah. \r\n\r\nWell, Drew, you're married; and you have four sons. \r\n\r\nDrew: Yep. \r\n\r\nAnn: Do you want your sons to have friends?\r\n\r\nDrew (03:16):\r\n\r\nYes. We talk about that a lot, about choosing friends wisely. We talk about kids at school. We want them to have a mindset that they're friendly with everyone; so there's not going to be a sense of: \"Well, you're not my friend; therefore, I shouldn't care about you.\" \r\n\r\nIt takes a lot of wisdom to pick your friends well, because you become like your friends. We see that happening in their life already. So we want them to have good friends; to be good friends; and to think about that, growing up.\r\n\r\nAnn (03:40):\r\n\r\nWhy'd you write about this?\r\n\r\nDrew (03:42):\r\n\r\nA few reasons. When I first started thinking about the topic, it was about probably 12 or 13 years ago now. I was teaching through Proverbs. I sat down, with the book of Proverbs, and just would read through it and collect themes. I wanted to say: \"What are the most prominent themes in Proverbs?\u201d and \u201cI'll collect what Proverbs says about it and teach on those themes.\" \r\n\r\nI was not expecting friendship to be part of the list. I was expecting money, words\u2014from reading through Proverbs over the years\u2014I had just not seen just how significant friendship was in particular. Even relationships\u2014I was thinking about loving people, loving your neighbor, marriage relationships, those kinds of things\u2014but I was struck by how many very specific and striking things Proverbs said about friendship. \r\n\r\nI started to study it. And then, as I was studying that week, it drew me to John 15, where Jesus calls His disciples friends. I just realized, \u201cMy goodness, I've read this, who knows how many times. I have a category for it, at some level; but I have not really taken this as seriously and internalized this as I should.\u201d\r\n\r\n(04:47) That week was really pivotal for me. And then, after that, I just kept thinking about friendship. I had friends, growing up. Through my life, I valued friendships; but I realized: \u201cI've not really thought about it, or thought about it deeply, or much at all.\u201d I think that week I realized: \u201cI've never spent five straight minutes thinking, intentionally, about this. I've read books about marriage, and parenting now; but never read anything on friendship, never had conversations or heard lectures or sermons directly on friendship.\u201d \r\n\r\nI started talking to people about this and realized their experience was the same. We all really value friendship; but we realized, after thinking about it\u2014I had one friend, who said to me, [as]I was talking to him about this\u2014after we started talking for a few minutes, said, \"I'm a really lousy friend.\" That's common. I disagreed with him, because he's one of my friends; he's a great friend. But we do realize that, without intentionality, there are gaps in our lives here. \r\n\r\n(05:31) Those are a few things. And then, over time, why it ended up being a book is because just noticing that there really weren't, at the time, many resources at all, from a biblical Christian perspective on friendship. It seemed to be lacking\u2014and then, we continue to be in a steep decline in just experiencing friendship\u2014plenty of studies show that. All those things came together to create the need for this book a few years ago.\r\n\r\nAnn (06:02):\r\n\r\nI've talked to so many wives. We'll talk about our friendship, and we'll talk about our husband's friendship. I can't tell you how many wives say: \"My husband says he doesn't need any friends,\u201d and \u201cI'm his only friend,\u201d and \u201cI'm the only friend that he needs.\" Have you heard that before, Dave?\r\n\r\nDave (06:18):\r\n\r\nYeah; we were talking earlier that: 30 years of preaching, I bet I did a message or two a year on friendship or community; [we\u2019re] made for friendship, made for community. I remember a stat\u2014I tried to find it\u2014years ago, that there was a study done of American men. If I'm remembering it right, it said nine out of ten American men say they do not have one true friend.\r\n\r\nDrew (06:43):\r\n\r\nWow.\r\n\r\nDave (06:44):\r\n\r\nThey have a lot of acquaintances, work buddies. It was interesting: the study went on to say, when they were boys, they had friends; but as they grew into men, and got involved in their lives, and marriages, and things, it's not something the average American guy\u2014I don't know how it compares to other men around the world\u2014but in America, we, often, don't have a real, what we call a real friendship. Did you find that as well?\r\n\r\nDrew (07:10):\r\n\r\nYeah; in fact, I remember someone making a joke, at one point, when I was talking about friendship. He said, \"Yeah, we have this newly-found miracle of Jesus: He had \r\n\r\n12 close friends in His 30s.\" \r\n\r\nAnn: Wow! \r\n\r\nDrew: Because it's just so rare. We have it early in life. If you go to college, college can often be a pressure cooker for friendship; because you have so many overlapping spheres of life\u2014where the people you go to church with, or in ministry with, or have class with, or where you live\u2014overlap. And then, we get out of college; and then, we move around. There's so many factors that lead to it, but we end up friendless. \r\n\r\nA lot of studies are showing those kinds of statistics, where they'll just interview a lot of people. Cigna Health Insurance did a study, a number of years ago; and they found that half of the people would say that their relationships aren't really meaningful to them. Something like 40 percent said that no one really knows them at all, which is another way of saying they don't actually have a friend\u2014or even a family member\u2014they consider that close. So 40 percent are saying, candidly: \u201cNo one really knows me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (08:10):\r\n\r\nYou tell me, because you just wrote about this: \u201cAre we living in one of the loneliest times in history?\u201d\r\n\r\nDrew (08:18):\r\n\r\nI think so. I think others can point to that; I think studies would show that. What's really unique about this though is that we are, in some ways, the most connected generation ever\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (08:28):\r\n\r\nYeah, with our devices.\r\n\r\nDrew (08:29):\r\n\r\nAbsolutely\u2014social media and the internet, and ways of connecting over text messages and phone calls\u2014never have people been able to connect this quickly with this many people. And yet, we are the most disconnected generation as well. We're the most connected, disconnected generation because studies are showing we don't actually have real life-on-life, face-to-face, heart-on-heart, soul-on-soul friendships. We're in a really unique position right now.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:57):\r\n\r\nSo why is it important? Teach us; you've done all this study. I think wives are like, \"This is important, and I want my husband to hear it. \" \r\n\r\nDave (09:05):\r\n\r\nWait, wait. Why are we talking just about \u201c\u2026my husband to hear it\u201d? You don't think women need to hear it as well?\r\n\r\nAnn (09:11):\r\n\r\nYeah, I think we do, too. I think women are lonelier than they have been in the past, too. We all get so busy\u2014we're taking care\u2014you guys know: we're taking care of our kids; we're going to church; we're in our jobs; and we think, \u201cDo [I] have enough time for friends?\u201d \r\n\r\nI'm just talking about the women that I know and talk to: they feel bad for their husbands, so I'm going to hit the husbands a little bit.\r\n\r\nDave (09:36):\r\n\r\nOkay; hit the husbands.\r\n\r\nDrew (09:37):\r\n\r\nIt certainly is an issue for both genders, and in different ages and spheres of life. There's a lot of angles that you can look at friendship to see our need for it. If you just start at Page 1 of the Bible, you see our need for it. God creates this wonder world. He creates these different realms of sky, land, sea\u2014fills it with communal life\u2014gets to the sixth day and creates humanity. He makes humanity in His image; and then, they're called to go fill the world with communal fruitful life and joy. That's the commission for Adam and Eve to do: to fill the world with human society and friendship. \r\n\r\n(10:22) But what's interesting\u2014in those first pages of the Bible\u2014God says He makes humanity in His own image; and He speaks of Himself in the plural: \u201cLet Us make man in Our image.\u201d Now, we don't explicitly see the trinity there; but we see that God is a plurality. It doesn't take long, reading the Bible, we find out Father, Son, and Spirit have made humanity in the image, then, of a triune God.\r\n\r\n(10:35) Before there was creation, or any men or women, there was God: Father, Son,  and Spirit as an eternal fellowship of love. God\u2014Richard Sibbes, a Puritan, put it this way\u2014he said that God has a spreading goodness. He spreads His goodness, which means He didn't create anything because He had a lack or a need; but because He wanted to share the fullness of His life and blessing. He creates humanity in His image\u2014the image of a communal God\u2014not because He needed us, but because He wanted to bless us. One of the blessings is to be made in the image of a God Who loves fellowship and community, this triune God of love. Humanity is made with this need to experience the fullness of joy in community with God and with one another. So we see that just on Page 1.\r\n\r\n(11:23) And then, Chapter 2 rewinds into the sixth day of creation to talk about how that actually happened. When you read the first story of creation in Genesis 1, you see that God made humanity, Adam and Eve; everything's very good. And then, Genesis 2 rewinds into that day; and then, shows the process. He started with Adam\u2014He started just with one\u2014Eve's not made yet. He says about Adam: \"It is not good that man should be alone.\"\r\n\r\n(11:51) What's so striking about that is that, so far, we've just heard everything's \u201cgood,\u201d \u201cgood,\u201d \u201cgood,\u201d \u201cvery good.\u201d And then, now, we rewind back into the sixth day and realize that there's a moment when something was not good; so He makes Eve, not just as a spouse, but as a friend to create a world of friendship. \r\n\r\nWhat's also interesting here is that Adam hasn't sinned yet. So the first problem in human history that God solves is that of companionship and friendship before sin's even here: \u201cIt's not good that man should be alone.\u201d That's a strong statement for why we need friendship. We're made in the image of a God of love; we're made for friendship. God Himself says, \u201cIt's not good to be alone.\u201d \r\n\r\n(12:35) And then, you can go from there and see all the problems that happen when we are alone. Proverbs says that the one who isolates himself breaks out against all understanding and reason. We see what happens when people are put in solitary confinement. That's just a little picture of what we're all experiencing when we are lonely and isolated in life.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:47):\r\n\r\nThe thing that I was thinking, too, as you were talking, Drew, was Scripture\u2014how God, as He talks about His people, the Israelites\u2014the Sabbath\/the Shabbat is always together with people. He has so many celebrations where people are together. Food, when we eat\u2014there's this beauty of when we come together and we eat\u2014it's good for our souls. I think that, if that's demonstrated in the Scriptures.\r\n\r\nDrew (13:13):\r\n\r\nRight. Yeah, I agree.\r\n\r\nDave (13:15):\r\n\r\nOne of the things I've done every year is fast. I used to do a two-week fast before Easter. \r\n\r\nWhat are you laughing about?\r\n\r\nAnn (13:23):\r\n\r\nI think I know where you're going with this.\r\n\r\nDave (13:25):\r\n\r\nI don't know if you know where I'm going. \r\n\r\nWhat made me think of it is when you said eating with people is something you enjoy. One of the hardest things about fasting is that goes away. I can sit at a table with people, who are eating; and I'm really mad at them, because they're eating and I'm not. But most of the time, you don't sit down with people during that fast, which is obviously a different\u2014you're doing a spiritual discipline\u2014but I never thought of that\u2014when I first said, \u201cI'm going to fast\u201d; that I'm going to miss community. God has hardwired every human being to long for and need community.\r\n\r\nAnn (14:00):\r\n\r\nThat's why I was laughing; I thought, \u201cI love it when you fast, but I also hate it; because, \u2018Oh, this is no fun; we can't eat together!\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nDrew (14:08):\r\n\r\nYou know what's interesting about that is, when you fast from food, you end up appreciating food more and appreciating people. I think God has made food partly for the sake of friendship and community; I think you can make a biblical case for that. \r\n\r\nWhat's interesting, too, is\u2014I was reading a book the past couple weeks\u2014on the way that the digital world has influenced us\u2014technology, and social media, and our addiction to our phones and all these things. I was really surprised about one part of his book, where he talked about solitude being really important; it was actually important for friendship and community. It was surprising because we wouldn't think that; it's like, \u201cWe'll be around people.\u201d He said, actually, we need solitude. We don't have solitude anymore because our minds\u2014and it's not just being alone\u2014it's giving space for your minds to not be occupied doing something, even checking your phone, checking your mail, checking the news, checking social media. Our mind no longer has opportunity to relax and do what it does when it doesn't have things going on, like it has for human history. \r\n\r\n(15:22) He said when\u2014and there's studies that show this about what's going on in the brain\u2014when your mind doesn't have a task to do, it defaults into using a part of your brain that thinks socially. It's even measured in infants, so this is just hardwired. Our mind defaults to think about our relationships. I thought, \u201cThat's so interesting\u201d; because, recently, I'll go out on my deck and just sit there by myself on some evenings or make a fire. \r\n\r\nDave (15:33):\r\n\r\nWait, wait. You got four boys and you get to sit on a deck by yourself?\r\n\r\nDrew (15:36):\r\n\r\nIt's at like 9 at night; it's already dark, and I'm exhausted. I'll get it for a little bit, and I'll make a fire. I start thinking about friendships; and actually, valuing them more. That's the point in this book, actually, is that our digital addictions are making friendships worse\u2014not just because we're spending time away from friends, kind of connecting in superficial ways\u2014but because we don't have time for solitude, where we actually think about our relationships and value them more. I inevitably find myself calling a friend, or just thinking about my friends and valuing them when I am alone. \r\n\r\nThere is a balance we need. Actually, solitude can help us engage with friends, not just being alone with our phone, but actually reflecting on life. Perhaps one of our lacks of friendship in life is partly because we don't even have this space anymore in this culture to think about what's valuable, what's important in life: \u201cWhat do I want to spend my time doing?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (16:30):\r\n\r\nYou know, before we continue, let me just say this to the listener: at FamilyLife, we really believe strong families can change the world. And when you become a FamilyLife Partner, you help make that happen.\r\n\r\nAnn (16:41):\r\n\r\nAnd I don't know if you realize this: your monthly gift helps us equip marriages and families with biblical tools that they can count on.\r\n\r\nDave (16:49):\r\n\r\nNow, that's a pretty good deal. And we also want to send you exclusive updates, behind-the-scenes access, and an invitation to our Private Partner Community, which is pretty cool. So join us, and let's reach families and marriages together.\r\n\r\nAnn (17:02):\r\n\r\nYou can go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click the \u201cDonate\u201d button to join today.\r\n\r\nDave (17:12):\r\n\r\nSince I left the pastorate after 30 years\u2014Ann has heard me say this\u2014it's like, \u201cWow, I'm lonelier now than I've ever been.\u201d It's a sense that I don't go to a\u2014we used to go to the office every day\u2014and there's all these staff and people around. There's the other side\u2014\"I don't want to be around any of these people. They bug me, and I bug them,\u201d but you're around people every day. \r\n\r\nNow, we're in a world that's a little different. A lot of what Ann and I do is alone. We have each other, which is awesome; but I'm not around as many men as I used to be. How do you\u2014a guy like me; or even\u2014you're in a different stage of life, so you're probably around people a lot; and you're sort of like I was like, \"I want to get away for the solitude bite.\" But if you're a person, who doesn't have a lot of friendships\u2014man or woman\u2014how would you encourage them? How do you develop that?\r\n\r\nDrew (18:02):\r\n\r\nYeah, there's a lot of things that you can do. One of the things is just making sure you do value it properly and just recognize this is a non-negotiable in life. Seeing that work is important; family's important, if you have one; certainly, marriage should be your best friend\/best friendship, but not your only friendship. Recognizing that you need to make it a non-negotiable; and then, building in space for it. There's a lot of things you can do. \r\n\r\nI think one of the things you can do is schedule it. Just think about the non-negotiables in life; everyone has them:\r\n\r\nEating.\r\n\r\nFor some people, exercising.\r\n\r\nReading the Bible and prayer.\r\n\r\nWork.\r\n\r\nEating as a family.\r\n\r\nIf those things are important, you build your life around them. You have predictable rhythms and times that you do them. \r\n\r\nFriendship should be just put into our calendars like that, too. There's a lot of ways you can do it. My wife and I will often have seasons where we just reserve one evening a week, a Wednesday or Thursday, when we put hospitality on our calendar. We're going to invite people over and spend time. We have that reserved for people to be in our home, either for dinner\u2014although, in our family life, it's a bit crazier now\u2014so we wait until a little bit later for dessert, or drinks, or something afterward. Or you can say, \u201cLunch\u201d\u2014during my work week\u2014\"I'm going to have lunch with this person every week.\u201d\r\n\r\n(19:18) Or you have it open with someone\u2014you just know: \u201cOn Mondays, I have lunch with a friend,\u201d\u2014and then, you schedule it that way. I have coffee, every other week, with a friend of mine at about 3:30 on Tuesdays right now. That's where we spend time getting together throughout the weeks and have a lot of conversations in everyday life, but we've just made sure to reserve that time to make sure we're talking openly and honestly about struggles in life, challenges in life, things we're encouraged about, confessing sin to one another, all of those things. \r\n\r\nScheduling it is a huge one. There's a lot of steps, but those would be a couple that would be first ones to take.\r\n\r\nDave (19:53):\r\n\r\nOne thing, even as you say that, I think, \u201cHow often does the typical guy\u201d\u2014and I don't know if women feel the same way\u2014I've said this: \u201cI got to work out. I got to get three workouts\/four workouts in a week.\u201d I don't think I've ever said, \"I got to meet with a buddy.\" Like you said\u2014\u201cWe're made for friendship,\u201d\u2014so it's that important.\r\n\r\nAnn (20:13):\r\n\r\nI have; I\u2019ve thought that, Dave, because I know\u2014for my emotional wellbeing and spiritual wellbeing\u2014I need to be with my friends. I have to have somebody, besides you, who knows everything about me, that I can be incredibly vulnerable with. I can tell them secrets; I can tell them things that I'm struggling with. I can tell them how I'm frustrated with Dave, and they're going to pray.\r\n\r\nDave (20:35):\r\n\r\nI even told her one year: I said, \"Go ahead, tell them how much of an idiot I am.\" \r\n\r\nAnn (20:40):\r\n\r\nHe said that; he\u2019s the pastor!\r\n\r\nDave (20:40):\r\n\r\n\u201cYou don't have to cover it up.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (20:43):\r\n\r\nI'm like, \"So you're saying\u2014you're the pastor of the church\u2014and you're saying I can tell my friends anything?\" You go, \"Yep, you can just go ahead and tell them.\" I thought that was incredibly humble of you.\r\n\r\nDave (20:52):\r\n\r\nWhat about married couples? Do you think they need other married couples as friends?\r\n\r\nDrew (20:57):\r\n\r\nYes, other married couples; yes. And even just the man having other friends, who are men, and the women having other friends, who are women; I think both\/and are really important. I know that some people get married; I've heard plenty of stories where both people have friends, who then get really hurt; because they're just cut out of life, because the couple gets married; and then, they put all of their friendship into that marriage. Other people are hurt by that.\r\n\r\n(21:21) And then, something happens down the road; and the marriage ends for all sorts of reasons; and eventually, death as long\u2014might be a sobering thought\u2014but unless the Lord takes them at the same time, one of them is going to be unmarried again. That's devastating if you have no other friends; it's not the way it was supposed to be. We're supposed to enjoy rich friendship. \r\n\r\nI think even having other friends\u2014both couples and even just men, having other men as friends, and women having other women as friends\u2014strengthens the marriage. Christina and I have a stronger marriage because we also have our friendships, that we even free each other up for; because I'm a better man, and a better husband, and a better father, because I have friends that help me become a better man, and husband, and father. She grows from her friendships, as well. We bring that to our marriage. And then, we, of course, can enjoy other couples together, as well, if it fits.\r\n\r\nDave (22:16):\r\n\r\nHey, Drew, I was thinking to end this conversation this way. There's a guy listening\u2014husband, dad; and of course, it could be a woman, as well\u2014but I'm thinking of the guy, who\u2019s saying, \"I agree. In fact, Drew's convinced me today the theology of friendship is real; it's Scriptural. I need to have friends in my life. I really don't have any. What do I do?\" What would you tell him to do?\r\n\r\nDrew (22:40):\r\n\r\nA couple things. One, ask God for friends.\r\n\r\nAnn (22:43):\r\n\r\nPray.\r\n\r\nDrew (22:44):\r\n\r\nThe Lord made you for friends. He orders everyone's lives; He can bring friends into your life. Pray, and ask the Lord, \"Would You bring me a friend? You made me for this. I need this. Please help.\" \r\n\r\n(23:02) And then, I would say focus, not so much on finding a friend, but on being a good friend. As you're around people, just open up conversation\u2014focus on them, ask questions, love people well, be interested\u2014be an encourager rather than a critical person, which keeps people from even wanting to be your friend. Don't be a gossip\u2014all the things of basic\u2014\u201cFollow Jesus; become like Him; be a good friend to people.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd then, pray that the Lord would use that to bring friends into your life. It's different than\u2014\"I'm going to do this on my own,\u201d and \u201cI'm going to get a good friend. I'm looking for people who are good friends for me,\u201d\u2014that just won't work.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:32):\r\n\r\nI like that advice; because especially, with women\u2014I've talked to women, saying, \u201cNobody will be my friend,\u201d\u2014I like what you said. Even when I read that of: \u201cBecome a good friend; become someone who\u2019s loving people, praying for them: \u2018How can I pray for you?\u2019 Start there, and pray.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (23:47):\r\n\r\nIt's easy to be the victim.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:48):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (23:49):\r\n\r\nEven when I would preach on this, I would think, \u201cThere's some people, thinking, \u2018Well, nobody's ever reached out to me.\u2019\" It's like, \u201cYou know what? You reach out. You initiate, and God will answer that prayer.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (24:03):\r\n\r\nThis is FamilyLife Today. What did you think about that with Drew Hunter?\r\n\r\nDave (24:06):\r\n\r\nGreat stuff. And by the way, you want to get his book; it's called Made for Friendship: The Relationship That Halves Our Sorrows and Doubles Our Joys. And that is exactly what you experience with real friendship.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:19):\r\n\r\nOh, it's so important.\r\n\r\nDave (24:22):\r\n\r\nGo to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the link in the show notes to buy that book. We're going to have Drew back with us tomorrow.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:29):\r\n\r\nWe would love to pray for you\u2014I would, personally, love to pray for you\u2014and we even have a team at FamilyLife who can pray for you. Just go to FamilyLife.com\/PrayForMe.\r\n\r\nDave (24:45):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nCelebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/318344","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=318344"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/295627"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=318344"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=318344"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=318344"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=318344"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=318344"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=318344"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}