{"id":318128,"date":"2026-03-23T04:23:16","date_gmt":"2026-03-23T08:23:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-can-i-make-a-relationship-last-start-here-bryan-stephanie-carter\/"},"modified":"2026-03-23T04:23:18","modified_gmt":"2026-03-23T08:23:18","slug":"how-can-i-make-a-relationship-last-start-here-bryan-stephanie-carter","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-can-i-make-a-relationship-last-start-here-bryan-stephanie-carter\/","title":{"rendered":"How Can I Make a Relationship Last? Start Here &#8211; Bryan &#038; Stephanie Carter"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>You love Jesus\u2014but marriage still feels complicated. Ministry pressure. In-law tension. Career moves you didn\u2019t plan. What does a strong Christian marriage actually look like after 25 years? If you&#8217;re wondering How can I make a relationship last? Stephanie Carter and her husband Bryan&#8211;author of Made to Last: 8 Principles to Build Long Lasting Relationships&#8211;get you started in the right direction. They chat about conflict, calling, compromise\u2014and the quiet resilience that keeps love standing. If you\u2019re tired of clich\u00e9s and want faith that works at home, this one\u2019s for you.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave and Ann Wilson host Bryan and Stephanie Carter as they share real talk on conflict, calling, compromise, and the quiet resilience that keeps love alive.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":295627,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/3734cccd-4d77-47bd-9bcb-b40a00e9d5c4\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.85M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[11468],"cwp_profile":[3635],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-318128","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","podcast_series-made-to-last-bryan-and-stephanie-carter","cwp_profile-bryan-and-stephanie-carter","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/318128\/how-can-i-make-a-relationship-last-start-here-bryan-stephanie-carter","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/318128\/how-can-i-make-a-relationship-last-start-here-bryan-stephanie-carter","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"T0ldWAGIIY\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-can-i-make-a-relationship-last-start-here-bryan-stephanie-carter\/\">How Can I Make a Relationship Last? Start Here &#8211; Bryan &#038; Stephanie Carter<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-can-i-make-a-relationship-last-start-here-bryan-stephanie-carter\/embed\/#?secret=T0ldWAGIIY\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How Can I Make a Relationship Last? Start Here &#8211; Bryan &#038; Stephanie Carter&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"T0ldWAGIIY\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["3734cccd-4d77-47bd-9bcb-b40a00e9d5c4"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/3734cccd-4d77-47bd-9bcb-b40a00e9d5c4\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:24:55"],"filesize":["22.85M"],"_thumbnail_id":["295627"],"show_notes":["\n<ul>\n<li>Learn more about Bryan Carter's and his book <em>Made to Last: Eight Principles to Build Long-Lasting Relationships<\/em> at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bryancarter.org\/\">bryancarter.org<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Attend a Weekend to Remember marriage getaway, our faith-based retreat with biblical teaching, practical tools, and focused time for couples: Register now at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/weekend-to-remember\/\">WeekendToRemember.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Sign up for the free Blended and Blessed livestream: a one-day event focused on building unity in blended families: Happening April 18, 2026 \u2014 register at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.blendedandblessed.com\/\">blendedandblessed.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Set sail on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/\">Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise!<\/a> Now through 3\/31\/26, use promo code CruiseMadness27 and enjoy exclusive savings on your stateroom.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nHow Can I Make a Relationship Last? Start Here\r\n\r\nGuests:Bryan and Stephanie Carter\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Made to Last (Day 1 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:March 23, 2026\r\n\r\nDave (00:04):\r\n\r\nYou got 30 seconds\u2014I didn't prep you for this\u2014you have no idea what I'm going to ask you.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:08):\r\n\r\nOkay.\r\n\r\nDave (00:09):\r\n\r\nA single girl comes up to you, says, \u201cI'm getting married. I want to have the best marriage ever. Tell me what I need to do.\u201d In 30 seconds, \u201cGo!\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:15):\r\n\r\nI\u2019d just say one thing: \u201cYou need to base\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (00:17):\r\n\r\nYou can't say what\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: No, no!\r\n\r\nDave: No, you're not allowed to say, \u201cJesus.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:20):\r\n\r\nNo, I'm going to say that: \u201cYou have to base it on the rock of Jesus, or it's going to be really hard. And even with Jesus, it can still be hard.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:34):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:40):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nDave (00:54):\r\n\r\nWe've got Bryan Carter, and his wife Stephanie, in the studio today. Welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nBryan (01:00):\r\n\r\nThank you so much.\r\n\r\nDave (01:00):\r\n\r\nWhat a lot of people may not know is you are on the FamilyLife Board.\r\n\r\nBryan (01:04):\r\n\r\nMan, it's been an honor to serve. I've been connected to FamilyLife for probably \r\n\r\n20 years. \r\n\r\nDave (01:09):\r\n\r\nReally? How did you get connected?\r\n\r\nBryan (01:10):\r\n\r\nI met Dennis in 2002 at a mentoring conference. It was Crawford Loritts who had organized it. He had invited young pastors\/young preachers. What happened, out of the conference, was every person there got a mentor. It just so happened there was a lot of gentlemen there. I was fortunate enough to get Dennis as my mentor for two years. It was Bryan Loritts, myself, and a couple other guys. Every month, we talked on the phone\u2014and it was a mentoring call\u2014and then, once a year, we had a gathering together. It was a joy to talk to Dennis once a month.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:46):\r\n\r\nHad you and Stephanie been married yet?\r\n\r\nBryan (01:48):\r\n\r\nWe were\u2014\r\n\r\nStephanie: \u20142002, we had just had our first baby. \r\n\r\nAnn: Oh, so it was perfect timing\u2014\r\n\r\nBryan: About three or four years.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014for Dennis Rainey to come into the picture.\r\n\r\nBryan: Yes, new in ministry, new in marriage and family. We've been talking on the phone, once a month, for almost 20 years now. \r\n\r\nDave: You're still talking? \r\n\r\nBryan: We're still talking, 22 years. We have a call scheduled for tomorrow.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:08):\r\n\r\nThat's awesome. \r\n\r\nDave: Did you guys meet in high school? You told us earlier that Bryan was this amazing high school athlete. Were you just following him around the court, or what? \r\n\r\nStephanie (02:19):\r\n\r\nNo, we did not meet in high school. I went to the University of Oklahoma; he went to Oklahoma State.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:24):\r\n\r\nWere you rivals then? How did you meet? \r\n\r\nStephanie (02:26):\r\n\r\nOh, yeah; we were very rivals. We met through some mutual friends\u2014we met at a Big Eight Conference on student leadership\u2014they introduced us there. He seemed really not into me; so I kind of felt like, \u201cWait; I thought you were trying to meet me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Bryan, what was that?!\r\n\r\nBryan (02:41):\r\n\r\nWell, I was just trying to make sure. They told me she was interested; I was just trying to make sure. I didn't want to seem too overly aggressive. I just wanted to let things play itself out. I asked for her number a week or two later; I say, \u201cCan I talk to you?\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (02:55):\r\n\r\n\u2014a week or two later?\r\n\r\nBryan (02:57):\r\n\r\nWell, I didn't want to press: \u201cNo pressure.\u201d But the first time we talked, we talked for two hours. We just kind of connected; it was like a natural connection. Sometime\u2014maybe, a month later, or a few weeks later\u2014we dated. We went on our first together to\u2014where did we go play putt-putt?\u2014was that the first game?\r\n\r\nStephanie (03:13):\r\n\r\nI have to give this to Bryan; he had great conversation. I just don't feel like young men, back then, did. When we tell this story, young women today will be like, \u201cYeah, it's still the same; it's still the same.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn (03:25):\r\n\r\nI was going to say, \u201cHas it changed?!\u201d\r\n\r\nStephanie (03:26):\r\n\r\nYeah, they're like, \u201cIt's still the same.\u201d We just talked on the phone and had great conversation; and then, he planned this great date. \r\n\r\nNow, I'm not going to lie: I think my mom had kind of scared me a little bit; she had watched too much Dateline. So when we're going on our date\u2014I mean OU is in Norman, Oklahoma; so everything pretty much a typical college town\u2014when he said, \u201cWe're going to the Olive Garden,\u201d I was like, \u201cOh, okay; I know where that is in Norman.\u201d When we drove past the Olive Garden, I was like, \u201cOh, my goodness.\u201d This is before cell phones, and somebody could track you. I said, \u201cI thought we were going to the Olive Garden.\u201d He was like, \u201cYeah, we're going to the Olive Garden in Oklahoma City. I thought we could just talk more.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave (04:08):\r\n\r\nHow far is that? \r\n\r\nBryan (04:11):\r\n\r\nThirty minutes.\r\n\r\nStephanie: \u201cOh, that\u2019s smooth.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Oh, wow! That\u2019s impressive. \r\n\r\nStephanie: So we go to the Olive Garden. \r\n\r\nDave (04:13):\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s more impressive, in my mind, than putt-putt.\r\n\r\nStephanie (04:16):\r\n\r\nOkay; putt-putt is coming, but that's a part of it.\r\n\r\nBryan: It\u2019s two parts.\r\n\r\nDave: Okay, okay.\r\n\r\nStephanie: it\u2019s two parts. We go to dinner. The waitress, in the middle of dinner, comes out with a yellow roses to give to me.\r\n\r\nAnn (04:28):\r\n\r\nWait! Wait a minute. \r\n\r\nDave: Wait; are you serious? \r\n\r\nBryan: I dropped by the restaurant before!\r\n\r\nAnn: They're fist-bumping right now.\r\n\r\nStephanie (04:35):\r\n\r\nYes; we had the yellow roses, which was really sweet. Then, he said, \u201cI remember that you said you love to ice skate. Or we can go putt-putting; what would you like to do?\u201d I was like, \u201cWe have something else to do?\u201d\u2014in my head, I was saying this. I was like, \u201cSure, we can go miniature golfing; that sounds great.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn (04:51):\r\n\r\nDid you think, \u201cI'm going to beat you, because I'm such a good athlete\u201d? \r\n\r\nStephanie: And I did.\r\n\r\nAnn: You beat him?\r\n\r\nStephanie: I did beat him. He had a plan.\r\n\r\nBryan (04:57):\r\n\r\nI had a plan; I had plan: whoever lost had to pay for the next date. So I set myself up to lose. I took the fall\u2014I took the dive\u2014so that I could get another date. \r\n\r\nDave (05:10):\r\n\r\nStephanie\u2019s not buying that one. She beat you, fair and square. \r\n\r\nStephanie (05:13):\r\n\r\nI beat him, fair and square. \r\n\r\nDave (05:14):\r\n\r\nI have a feeling you still are.\r\n\r\nStephanie (05:15):\r\n\r\nYeah, dating him was really\u2014he just was super, super sweet; just had never seen anything like that\u2014just super romantic; great conversation. \r\n\r\nNow, I will be honest: when I asked my friends about him, before I gave them my number, so he called me\u2014I said, \u201cOkay, so tell me something about him,\u201d\u2014they were like, \u201cWell, he goes to Oklahoma State.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d And they were like, \u201cOh, he's in a fraternity.\u201d \u201cOkay.\u201d And then, they're like, \u201cHe's the President of the Black Student Association at Oklahoma State.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d And \u201cYeah, he's a minister.\u201d I was like, \u201cAbsolutely not.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Wait a minute. \r\n\r\nStephanie: \u201cAbsolutely not!\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: Why?\r\n\r\nDave (05:58):\r\n\r\nWhy are you asking, \u201cWhy?\u201d; you were the same way. You said, \u201cI will never, ever\u2026\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: That is true. I said, \u201cI would never be a pastor's wife, ever.\u201d\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nStephanie (06:06):\r\n\r\nExactly; I kept feeling like, \u201cNo.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (06:07):\r\n\r\nDid you grow up in a Christian home?\r\n\r\nStephanie (06:08):\r\n\r\nI did; I grew up in a Christian home. \r\n\r\nAnn (06:10):\r\n\r\nSo you're a believer.\r\n\r\nStephanie (06:11):\r\n\r\nI'm a believer. The military\u2014my mom had us so engaged in church because we moved every two to four years\u2014that was our way to get connected to the community and get connected to meet other kids. Youth ministry\u2014all that\u2014I did it. But I kept feeling like, \u201cNo.\u201d I guess because I would just see that pastor's wife and she just looked like\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Me, too!\r\n\r\nStephanie: \u2014\u201cGod, help me.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn (06:34):\r\n\r\nYes!\r\n\r\nBryan, what was your family life? It sounds like you come from a really good family.\r\n\r\nBryan (06:38):\r\n\r\nMy dad was a pastor. I watched his transformation. I watched him going to church, off and on, to really becoming really committed; to ultimately, saying: \u201cI want to be a minister,\u201d \u201cI want to be a pastor,\u201d \u201cI want to start a church.\u201d He started church when I was ten. But he's also a mechanic and kind of a craftsman. He takes these old buildings, and he remodels them; and he turns them into churches. \r\n\r\nMy middle school years are spent, after school, going to help him as he remodels this church into a facility. That was part of what we did\u2014very involved in church, very engaged in church. As a young man, I felt a call on my life to do ministry\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: At that age; super young.\r\n\r\nBryan: \u2014like 15, 16, 17\u2014I knew I wanted to be a pastor. \r\n\r\nNow, mind you, I expected every pastor to be bi-vocational. My plan was to teach school, be a principal, and be a pastor\u2014and just pull\u2014I felt like that connected me to the community. I could do all of it together; it just felt like a natural fit. So even when I went off to college, I was a science and education major; because I felt like: \u201cThis will be the pathway, where I can serve people, connect with people, help people.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (07:43):\r\n\r\nYou\u2019ll be Principal Carter.\r\n\r\nBryan (07:44):\r\n\r\nYeah! Listen, it all\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: Isn\u2019t that a movie?\r\n\r\nBryan: \u2014principal, pastor together\u2014it all goes together.\r\n\r\nAnn: Oh, yeah. \r\n\r\nBryan: So it felt like a natural kind of move. Watching my dad\u2014him and my mom together, learning how to treat a woman\u2014all of those things kind of collided when I met her. I always knew I wanted to get married. We were dating sophomore year in college. I knew I needed a wife, and so I'm looking. When we meet, it just is this connection. Even when we first start meeting, we're coming to church together. I\u2019m driving [to her place]; she\u2019s driving me to church. \r\n\r\nIt just is a connection there. I knew what I wanted: I wanted somebody to love the Lord; somebody who had goals and ambitions; somebody who was cute. All those things were part of what I was looking for. When I found her, I just said, \u201cMan, God, this is really an answer my prayer. This is what I've been looking for.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (08:37):\r\n\r\nWait a minute; I need to get over the hump of: \u201cWhat are you doing with\u2014he wants to go into ministry and be a pastor\u2014how did you get over that?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (08:44):\r\n\r\nShe's asking, because she's still not over it.\r\n\r\nStephanie (08:48):\r\n\r\nYeah; I don't think you\u2014as wives, you just never get\u2014you're always like, \u201cOkay, this is 20 years, so how much more?\u201d\r\n\r\n(08:58) I think Bryan's heart is what won me over; I could look past the ministry part. I was an education major\u2014I was an elementary education major\u2014he was middle school. We had these desires to teach. Like he said, we had never seen a full-service staffed pastor. It was: \u201cThis is what I do: \u2018I teach\u2019; and he had aspirations to be a principal. He was going to be a superintendent and that was going to be our life, and that was going to be our role. I really wasn't thinking, \u201cpastor's wife.\u201d I think the only time I would get really nervous about it is when his dad would talk about it. That would take me down. I remember his mom\u2014his mom was very traditional, very traditional house\u2014mine was the complete opposite.\r\n\r\nBryan (09:44):\r\n\r\nMy home church is a very small church, small family church. That's the church that I grew up in; that's where we met; that's where we're dating. Part of the transition is she's thinking, \u201cThis is where\u201d\u2014I thought I was going to succeed in my dad\u2014you're talking about 20 to 30 people, small Oklahoma city.\r\n\r\nStephanie (10:00):\r\n\r\nThat's on a good day.\r\n\r\nBryan (10:02):\r\n\r\nYou know, pastors count by threes. \r\n\r\nStephanie: It's about 15, like a small group. It's a small group; it\u2019s a small group.\r\n\r\nDave: A small group; needs three more people. \r\n\r\nBryan: It's a small, intimate family church; but he has a lot of outreach. In those kind of settings, it would've been hard for her to fit into this space. \r\n\r\nStephanie: I didn't fit.\r\n\r\nBryan: It didn\u2019t fit, and it was going to be a struggle; it really would've been. \r\n\r\nStephanie (10:29):\r\n\r\nIt already was a struggle. \r\n\r\nBryan: It was a struggle!\r\n\r\nAnn: Because you're strong; is that what you mean? \r\n\r\nStephanie: I was strong. And his dad would say things like, \u201cSo would you be up to taking piano lessons?\u201d \r\n\r\nBryan: I don't remember that now.\r\n\r\nStephanie (10:40):\r\n\r\nBryan, don't do this. Don\u2019t do this! \r\n\r\nThen, y'all\u2014my friends; I love my friends\u2014I would plead with them. They could go out and kick it, all night long; and then, they'd get up and go to whatever the hot church was in Oklahoma City. I'd be like, \u201cHey, you guys want to go to church with me?\u201d They're like, \u201cNo.\u201d I was like, \u201cPlease go to church with me!\u201d They were like, \u201cOkay, okay, okay; we'll go to church with you.\u201d They go; and one of my friends was like, \u201cIf anybody ever says that you don't love Bryan, I'm going to be like, \u2018She loves him a lot!\u2019 \u2018She loves him a lot!\u2019\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: Dave and I made this pact when we got married\u2014I was only 19; Dave was 22\u2014we came on staff with Athletes in Action with Cru. And then, a couple years later, we're like, \u201cLet's go to seminary; we're going to do this the rest of our lives.\u201d I made a pact with him, like, \u201cAlright, we're going to go to seminary; but you are not going to become a pastor. This is our deal; this is our deal. Because if you're going for that, I don't think I'm into that.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (11:47):\r\n\r\nShe literally said, \u201cI'm not doing that. I'll do ministry, but not that kind of ministry.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (11:52):\r\n\r\nBecause I had expectations; I had a vision of what I thought a pastor's wife was.\r\n\r\nDave (11:58):\r\n\r\nSort of what you saw.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:00):\r\n\r\nI wasn't that; I'm like, \u201dThey are going to hate me; and so, I can't do that.\u201d So you kind of get that.\r\n\r\nStephanie (12:03):\r\n\r\nI so get it.\r\n\r\nSo what\u2014Bryan is so vague right now\u2014you remember that time [you] had to preach?\r\n\r\nBryan (12:13):\r\n\r\nI had to preach in\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (12:15):\r\n\r\n\u2014your dad's church?\r\n\r\nBryan (12:16):\r\n\r\nNo, at another church. In African American context, sometimes, the pastor's wife will sing before the preacher gets up to preach.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:23):\r\n\r\nIt's the pastor's wife.\r\n\r\nBryan (12:24):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:25):\r\n\r\n\u2014or playing the piano?\r\n\r\nBryan (12:26):\r\n\r\nOr, sometimes, both. They call her up to sing.\r\n\r\nStephanie (12:32):\r\n\r\nI cannot sing.\r\n\r\nBryan (12:33):\r\n\r\nThat's not her gift. \r\n\r\nDave: They called you up to sing just because you\u2019re\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (12:36):\r\n\r\n\u2014out of nowhere?\r\n\r\nStephane: \u2014out of nowhere\r\n\r\nBryan (12:38):\r\n\r\n\u2014out of nowhere. She tried though; she tried.\r\n\r\nStephanie (12:40):\r\n\r\nAnd then, in the small church, y\u2019all, they even had the nerve to shade me or kind of tease me. Yes, they did, Bryan. Because they were like, \u201cThat's not\u201d\u2014whatever\u2014\"That's a worship song.\u201d I was like, \u201cYou know what?\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan (12:53):\r\n\r\nBut we made it! Needless to say, we made it through some seasons of testing, trying to find our roles.\r\n\r\nStephanie (13:01):\r\n\r\nOh, my goodness.\r\n\r\nBryan (13:02):\r\n\r\nI was trying to find myself\u2014she was trying to find hers\u2014and the box really didn't fit. So ultimately, what happens is we relocate to Texas. We move to the Dallas\/Fort Worth area. It would've been hard, trying to navigate through all the dynamics: family, ministry, family church. It would've been challenging\u2014not to say that\u2014I think, in my mind, I wanted to. But I think we went through a few challenges there; and it felt like, \u201cThis is not going to work.\u201d \r\n\r\nWe had a church meeting one Sunday, and it went really sour between me and my dad. It really was a moment, where I said, \u201cThis is not going to work\u201d; and I really wanted it to. I had a vision of what could happen\u2014I saw some things\u2014but that conflict that we had, I don't think I would've made it in ministry. I think it would have been hard in ministry; I think we've been hard on our marriage. Those tensions, ultimately, led to us relocating. We graduated together in May, and we moved to Texas the next month.\r\n\r\nAnn (14:09):\r\n\r\n\u2014which sounds like: \u201cThis is God's plan.\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan: It was.\r\n\r\nStephanie (14:11):\r\n\r\nIt definitely was God's plan. But I learned a valuable lesson during that season. My mom taught me how to pray. I'll never forget the year before we got married\u2014it was a true testing season\u2014things were getting thrown at us, left and right. I'll never forget\u2014my mom was like, \u201cDo you pray for Bryan?\u201d\u2014I was like, \u201cI do.\u201d And she was like, \u201cHow do you pray for him?\u201d I was like, \u201cHelp him to realize that he\u2026\u201d She was like, \u201cStephanie, that is not how you pray for him.\u201d She's like, \u201cYou need to pray for the future husband he's going to be; the future father; the future leader he's going to be.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (14:46):\r\n\r\nWhat did that sound like?\r\n\r\nStephanie (14:47):\r\n\r\nI said, \u201cIt definitely didn't sound like what I was doing before.\u201d I would be like, \u201cGod, just whatever the plans You have for Bryan, I pray that You will just surround him with people who can pour into him. I pray for the future husband he's going to be; how he will lead our family,\u201d\u2014and so on\u2014\"And I pray for the father he will be,\u201d\u2014just doing that prayer. \r\n\r\nAnd then, my mom was like, \u201cHave you told Bryan?\u201d Because our biggest issue was we did not want to live where we were going to live: \u201cWhere are we going to live?\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan (15:19):\r\n\r\n\u201cWhere are we going to live?\u201d We either stay in Oklahoma City, or we're going to move.\r\n\r\nStephanie (15:21):\r\n\r\nSo that was huge.\r\n\r\nBryan (15:23):\r\n\r\n\u2014huge.\r\n\r\nStephanie (15:24):\r\n\r\nThat was our biggest thing. My mom was like, \u201cDoes he know that you don't want to live here?\u201d And I said, \u201cYes.\u201d And she was like, \u201cOh, what am I asking? Of course, he knows you don't want to live here; I know you've told him.\u201d She's like, \u201cHave you prayed to God and asked Him about where He would have you to be?\u201d And I said, \u201cNo.\u201d And she was like, \u201cStephanie, I don't want you to tell Bryan anymore about what you don't want to do, or this or that. I need you to take that to God, and I need you to have faith in what God will have; and the plan that He has for y'all.\u201d I kept feeling like, \u201cNo, but see God\u2026\u201d And she's like, \u201cGod knows everything, and God is going to hear your prayer.\u201d \u201cBut He doesn't know his parents\u2026\u201d She's like, \u201cGod knows, and I need you to leave it there with Him.\u201d I said, \u201cAlright!\u201d\r\n\r\nSo I'm praying\u2014this is probably in August\u2014the church meeting that he talked about earlier, that happens in January. I haven't said anything; I haven't said anything else about it. \r\n\r\nAnn: Look at you. \r\n\r\nStephanie: I took it to God; I left it there. When the church meeting happens, I'm kind of like, in my head, the sassiness in me wanted to be like, \u201cNo, this is what you want. This is why you want to stay here.\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan (16:25):\r\n\r\nYeah, I was ready because I was so accustomed to some of the dynamics at work. You can manage them. But oftentimes, when you bring in someone that's outside, it's all like, \u201cWait a minute. How do we\u2026What's this?\u201d We were trying to [stay]; but the conflict, and the differences\u2014a lot of it was just differences\u2014you have one generation colliding with another generation. It's just a total opposite ways of view. And then, I'm young; and I'm probably a little bit arrogant. I'm thinking: \u201c\u2026my way,\u201d \u201c\u2026my way,\u201d \u201c\u2026 my way.\u201d I'm trying to change things at the church, probably, a bit too fast; or a bit too quickly, which is meeting with resistance. It just was a recipe for disaster.\r\n\r\nAnn (17:06):\r\n\r\nAnd probably creating tension between the relationship you had with your parents.\r\n\r\nBryan (17:10):\r\n\r\n\u2014my parents, especially, with my wife. So it is one of those things, where most young couples\u2014and we're not even married yet\u2014but managing through your parents, your spouse\/your fianc\u00e9\u2014trying to navigate that can be hard sometimes. I'm like, \u201cI'm caught in the middle, trying to make everybody happy.\u201d It was a bit rocky.\r\n\r\nRon (17:36):\r\n\r\nHey, friends; Ron Deal here, Director of FamilyLife Blended. Did you know Blended &amp;amp; Blessed\u2014the only worldwide livestream designed for couples and blended families\u2014is free this year? Saturday, April 18, we're going to be live in Oklahoma City. If you show up there, we're going to charge you for lunch. But other than that, it is free to livestream. Churches can bring a group of couples together, and enjoy the day, absolutely free. \r\n\r\nGayla Grace is going to be with us; Davey and Kristi Blackburn; Cheryl Shumake\u2019s going to be with us; Kathi Lipp; and Bryan Goins, our emcee. It's going to be a wonderful day; I hope you can join us. Learn more and get the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nDave (18:22):\r\n\r\nNow, as you look back\u2014here you are, 25 years later\u2014and we haven't even mentioned your book, Made to Last. \r\n\r\nAnn: We'll get to that; we'll get to that tomorrow. \r\n\r\nDave: But it's all about long-lasting relationships. \r\n\r\nDo you think that start\u2014prayer; I'm hearing, \u201cleaving and cleaving\u201d\u2014how important would you say, now 25 years in, that is to building a relationship that's made to last?\r\n\r\nStephanie (18:48):\r\n\r\nOh, I would say it's crucial; it's essential. I learned a valuable lesson. There was an issue where his dad did a sermon, and he talked about women and what they're supposed to wear. At that time, as a college student, you had your stuff on a rotation. He had an issue with pants, never knew it was an issue with pants. I had my little pants suit on, that he had bought me. The day\u2014it's like he knew\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (19:11):\r\n\r\nWait; his son had bought you the pantsuit; and his dad\u2019s talking about it. \r\n\r\nBryan (19:14):\r\n\r\nI did not know the rule; nobody knew the rules. \r\n\r\nStephanie: His dad does a sermon about pants. I'm like\u2014again, the church is small; on this day, I may have been eight people\u2014I'm the only one with pants. I just kept feeling like, \u201cNo, this is not going to work.\u201d \r\n\r\nTo make a long story short, I leave the church. I basically\u2014we almost end our engagement\u2014because I just saw my life, and I kept feeling like, \u201cI cannot do this.\u201d To have a marriage made to last, or relationship made to last, you also have to compromise. But then, you also have to let go of yourself. My parents had raised me to be very strong and very independent. I remember crying, calling my parents to tell them about what happened. My dad was like, \u201cStephanie, you're going to take that?\u201d And then, my mom was like, \u201cStephanie, this is something you have to pray about. This is y'all's first sign.\u201d Because we had not had any major things in our relationship, while we were dating\/in our engagement. This was the first true test. \r\n\r\nI'll never forget\u2014I go to another church; in the church that everybody goes to in Oklahoma City\u2014and I'm sitting there. There's an older woman sitting next to me, and she sees my engagement ring. She goes, \u201cOh, where's your husband?\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh, I'm not married.\u201d She was like, \u201cOh, where's your finance?\u201d I was like, \u201cOh, he goes to another church.\u201d And she was like, \u201cWell, baby, if you wear his ring, you need to be by his side.\u201d I was like, \u201cWell, see; you don't understand.\u201d \u201cI don't care; if you wear his ring, you need to be by his side.\u201d That was so convicting to me. I remember going back to the church\u2014going back\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (20:52):\r\n\r\n\u2014with a dress on.\r\n\r\nStephanie (20:54):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (20:55):\r\n\r\nGood for you!\r\n\r\nStephanie (20:55):\r\n\r\n\u2014with a dress on.\r\n\r\nDave: So you went back?\r\n\r\nStephanie: I went back; it was very humbling. I'm very competitive\u2014I've always played competitive sports together\u2014I felt like I was losing and that his dad had won. It was a battle; it was a battle.\r\n\r\nBryan (21:09):\r\n\r\nI think, when you talk about made-to-last couples and relationships, the last chapter in the book talks about resilience,\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (21:18):\r\n\r\n\u2014suffering, and trials.\r\n\r\nBryan (21:19):\r\n\r\n\u2014suffering, and the trials. I think her commitment to me\u2014her commitment to our relationship and being willing to face those challenges and obstacles\u2014and us willing to face those challenges and obstacles together, I think are essential for any relationship. \r\n\r\nI think, when things get hard\u2014if people quit; if someone says: \u201cI don't want to dive in,\u201d or \u201cI'm not going to deal with that,\u201d\u2014I think that's when we lose the strength of our relationships. It's the challenges and the obstacles that we go through together that we face, side by side; that we fight, back to back, together with those instead of fighting each other. That then, allows us to build something that's healthy, that's strong, that's reliable. \r\n\r\nNow, looking back, 25 years later, those moments, and challenges, and tensions, and conflicts, could have really driven us apart. They both were painful, and they were hard. I hate some of the things she had to go through. As a man, I had to figure out how to love her, protect her, support her. I probably didn't always do the best job. Well, I didn't do the best job, early on, in marriage. But I had to learn through those lessons.\r\n\r\n(22:22) She had to coach me, and I had to manage through them. But it's that resilience; it's that persevering; it's relying on our faith, watching God work on our hearts and our souls, watching God mature us; because sometimes, in our own immaturity, we become selfish and self-centered. We don't think about others. But now, looking back, I just can see God faithfully working through those moments\u2014faithfully, working through those challenges: growing her, growing me\u2014and really, giving us a peace about some of those things. Sometimes, you can't change other people.\r\n\r\nAnn (22:59):\r\n\r\n\u2014most of the time.\r\n\r\nBryan (22:59):\r\n\r\n\u2014most of the time. Most, you can't. But you learn to have a peace, and you learn how to navigate through some things in a way that honors God; but also, protects your relationship.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:25):\r\n\r\nWell, that was a great conversation with Bryan and Stephanie Carter.\r\n\r\nDave (23:28):\r\n\r\nYeah, I loved having them on. And as we said, they're on our FamilyLife Board. Actually, Bryan's written a book that we talked about today; and you can get it. The book's called Made to Last: 8 Principles to Build Long Lasting Relationships. And you can get it at the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com. I tell you what\u2014one of the best things we ever do for our marriage\u2014it's get away!\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (23:52):\r\n\r\nThat's true. \r\n\r\nDave (23:53):\r\n\r\n\u2014focus and work on our relationship. We don't want to do it\u2014it's hard to get on the calendar\u2014but when we do, we grow; and our marriage gets better.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:03):\r\n\r\nYou know what, though? What really goes along well with that getaway is something that's cheap or that's on sale.\r\n\r\nDave (24:09):\r\n\r\nYeah, we're talking about the Weekend to Remember, FamilyLife's marriage getaway; it's 40 percent off, right now, if you sign up. I tell you: \u201cYou don't want to miss this deal. It's a Friday night through Sunday morning. It's literally life-changing and legacy-changing for your marriage.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (24:26):\r\n\r\nAnd here are the sale dates: March 20 through the 30th; you can get that 40 percent off. So visit WeekendToRemember.com. There's no promo code needed. Again, that's WeekendToRemember.com to get that sale.\r\n\r\nDave (24:43):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nCelebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. 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Coyle","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coyle-a9eb952f\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Dave and Ann Wilson host Bryan and Stephanie Carter as they share real talk on conflict, calling, compromise, and the quiet resilience that keeps love alive.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>Learn more about Bryan Carter's and his book <em>Made to Last: Eight Principles to Build Long-Lasting Relationships<\/em> at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bryancarter.org\/\">bryancarter.org<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Attend a Weekend to Remember marriage getaway, our faith-based retreat with biblical teaching, practical tools, and focused time for couples: Register now at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/weekend-to-remember\/\">WeekendToRemember.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Sign up for the free Blended and Blessed livestream: a one-day event focused on building unity in blended families: Happening April 18, 2026 \u2014 register at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.blendedandblessed.com\/\">blendedandblessed.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Set sail on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/\">Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise!<\/a> Now through 3\/31\/26, use promo code CruiseMadness27 and enjoy exclusive savings on your stateroom.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-03-23.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nHow Can I Make a Relationship Last? Start Here\r\n\r\nGuests:Bryan and Stephanie Carter\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Made to Last (Day 1 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:March 23, 2026\r\n\r\nDave (00:04):\r\n\r\nYou got 30 seconds\u2014I didn't prep you for this\u2014you have no idea what I'm going to ask you.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:08):\r\n\r\nOkay.\r\n\r\nDave (00:09):\r\n\r\nA single girl comes up to you, says, \u201cI'm getting married. I want to have the best marriage ever. Tell me what I need to do.\u201d In 30 seconds, \u201cGo!\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:15):\r\n\r\nI\u2019d just say one thing: \u201cYou need to base\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (00:17):\r\n\r\nYou can't say what\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: No, no!\r\n\r\nDave: No, you're not allowed to say, \u201cJesus.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:20):\r\n\r\nNo, I'm going to say that: \u201cYou have to base it on the rock of Jesus, or it's going to be really hard. And even with Jesus, it can still be hard.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:34):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:40):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nDave (00:54):\r\n\r\nWe've got Bryan Carter, and his wife Stephanie, in the studio today. Welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nBryan (01:00):\r\n\r\nThank you so much.\r\n\r\nDave (01:00):\r\n\r\nWhat a lot of people may not know is you are on the FamilyLife Board.\r\n\r\nBryan (01:04):\r\n\r\nMan, it's been an honor to serve. I've been connected to FamilyLife for probably \r\n\r\n20 years. \r\n\r\nDave (01:09):\r\n\r\nReally? How did you get connected?\r\n\r\nBryan (01:10):\r\n\r\nI met Dennis in 2002 at a mentoring conference. It was Crawford Loritts who had organized it. He had invited young pastors\/young preachers. What happened, out of the conference, was every person there got a mentor. It just so happened there was a lot of gentlemen there. I was fortunate enough to get Dennis as my mentor for two years. It was Bryan Loritts, myself, and a couple other guys. Every month, we talked on the phone\u2014and it was a mentoring call\u2014and then, once a year, we had a gathering together. It was a joy to talk to Dennis once a month.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:46):\r\n\r\nHad you and Stephanie been married yet?\r\n\r\nBryan (01:48):\r\n\r\nWe were\u2014\r\n\r\nStephanie: \u20142002, we had just had our first baby. \r\n\r\nAnn: Oh, so it was perfect timing\u2014\r\n\r\nBryan: About three or four years.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014for Dennis Rainey to come into the picture.\r\n\r\nBryan: Yes, new in ministry, new in marriage and family. We've been talking on the phone, once a month, for almost 20 years now. \r\n\r\nDave: You're still talking? \r\n\r\nBryan: We're still talking, 22 years. We have a call scheduled for tomorrow.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:08):\r\n\r\nThat's awesome. \r\n\r\nDave: Did you guys meet in high school? You told us earlier that Bryan was this amazing high school athlete. Were you just following him around the court, or what? \r\n\r\nStephanie (02:19):\r\n\r\nNo, we did not meet in high school. I went to the University of Oklahoma; he went to Oklahoma State.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:24):\r\n\r\nWere you rivals then? How did you meet? \r\n\r\nStephanie (02:26):\r\n\r\nOh, yeah; we were very rivals. We met through some mutual friends\u2014we met at a Big Eight Conference on student leadership\u2014they introduced us there. He seemed really not into me; so I kind of felt like, \u201cWait; I thought you were trying to meet me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Bryan, what was that?!\r\n\r\nBryan (02:41):\r\n\r\nWell, I was just trying to make sure. They told me she was interested; I was just trying to make sure. I didn't want to seem too overly aggressive. I just wanted to let things play itself out. I asked for her number a week or two later; I say, \u201cCan I talk to you?\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (02:55):\r\n\r\n\u2014a week or two later?\r\n\r\nBryan (02:57):\r\n\r\nWell, I didn't want to press: \u201cNo pressure.\u201d But the first time we talked, we talked for two hours. We just kind of connected; it was like a natural connection. Sometime\u2014maybe, a month later, or a few weeks later\u2014we dated. We went on our first together to\u2014where did we go play putt-putt?\u2014was that the first game?\r\n\r\nStephanie (03:13):\r\n\r\nI have to give this to Bryan; he had great conversation. I just don't feel like young men, back then, did. When we tell this story, young women today will be like, \u201cYeah, it's still the same; it's still the same.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn (03:25):\r\n\r\nI was going to say, \u201cHas it changed?!\u201d\r\n\r\nStephanie (03:26):\r\n\r\nYeah, they're like, \u201cIt's still the same.\u201d We just talked on the phone and had great conversation; and then, he planned this great date. \r\n\r\nNow, I'm not going to lie: I think my mom had kind of scared me a little bit; she had watched too much Dateline. So when we're going on our date\u2014I mean OU is in Norman, Oklahoma; so everything pretty much a typical college town\u2014when he said, \u201cWe're going to the Olive Garden,\u201d I was like, \u201cOh, okay; I know where that is in Norman.\u201d When we drove past the Olive Garden, I was like, \u201cOh, my goodness.\u201d This is before cell phones, and somebody could track you. I said, \u201cI thought we were going to the Olive Garden.\u201d He was like, \u201cYeah, we're going to the Olive Garden in Oklahoma City. I thought we could just talk more.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave (04:08):\r\n\r\nHow far is that? \r\n\r\nBryan (04:11):\r\n\r\nThirty minutes.\r\n\r\nStephanie: \u201cOh, that\u2019s smooth.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Oh, wow! That\u2019s impressive. \r\n\r\nStephanie: So we go to the Olive Garden. \r\n\r\nDave (04:13):\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s more impressive, in my mind, than putt-putt.\r\n\r\nStephanie (04:16):\r\n\r\nOkay; putt-putt is coming, but that's a part of it.\r\n\r\nBryan: It\u2019s two parts.\r\n\r\nDave: Okay, okay.\r\n\r\nStephanie: it\u2019s two parts. We go to dinner. The waitress, in the middle of dinner, comes out with a yellow roses to give to me.\r\n\r\nAnn (04:28):\r\n\r\nWait! Wait a minute. \r\n\r\nDave: Wait; are you serious? \r\n\r\nBryan: I dropped by the restaurant before!\r\n\r\nAnn: They're fist-bumping right now.\r\n\r\nStephanie (04:35):\r\n\r\nYes; we had the yellow roses, which was really sweet. Then, he said, \u201cI remember that you said you love to ice skate. Or we can go putt-putting; what would you like to do?\u201d I was like, \u201cWe have something else to do?\u201d\u2014in my head, I was saying this. I was like, \u201cSure, we can go miniature golfing; that sounds great.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn (04:51):\r\n\r\nDid you think, \u201cI'm going to beat you, because I'm such a good athlete\u201d? \r\n\r\nStephanie: And I did.\r\n\r\nAnn: You beat him?\r\n\r\nStephanie: I did beat him. He had a plan.\r\n\r\nBryan (04:57):\r\n\r\nI had a plan; I had plan: whoever lost had to pay for the next date. So I set myself up to lose. I took the fall\u2014I took the dive\u2014so that I could get another date. \r\n\r\nDave (05:10):\r\n\r\nStephanie\u2019s not buying that one. She beat you, fair and square. \r\n\r\nStephanie (05:13):\r\n\r\nI beat him, fair and square. \r\n\r\nDave (05:14):\r\n\r\nI have a feeling you still are.\r\n\r\nStephanie (05:15):\r\n\r\nYeah, dating him was really\u2014he just was super, super sweet; just had never seen anything like that\u2014just super romantic; great conversation. \r\n\r\nNow, I will be honest: when I asked my friends about him, before I gave them my number, so he called me\u2014I said, \u201cOkay, so tell me something about him,\u201d\u2014they were like, \u201cWell, he goes to Oklahoma State.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d And they were like, \u201cOh, he's in a fraternity.\u201d \u201cOkay.\u201d And then, they're like, \u201cHe's the President of the Black Student Association at Oklahoma State.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d And \u201cYeah, he's a minister.\u201d I was like, \u201cAbsolutely not.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Wait a minute. \r\n\r\nStephanie: \u201cAbsolutely not!\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: Why?\r\n\r\nDave (05:58):\r\n\r\nWhy are you asking, \u201cWhy?\u201d; you were the same way. You said, \u201cI will never, ever\u2026\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: That is true. I said, \u201cI would never be a pastor's wife, ever.\u201d\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nStephanie (06:06):\r\n\r\nExactly; I kept feeling like, \u201cNo.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (06:07):\r\n\r\nDid you grow up in a Christian home?\r\n\r\nStephanie (06:08):\r\n\r\nI did; I grew up in a Christian home. \r\n\r\nAnn (06:10):\r\n\r\nSo you're a believer.\r\n\r\nStephanie (06:11):\r\n\r\nI'm a believer. The military\u2014my mom had us so engaged in church because we moved every two to four years\u2014that was our way to get connected to the community and get connected to meet other kids. Youth ministry\u2014all that\u2014I did it. But I kept feeling like, \u201cNo.\u201d I guess because I would just see that pastor's wife and she just looked like\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Me, too!\r\n\r\nStephanie: \u2014\u201cGod, help me.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn (06:34):\r\n\r\nYes!\r\n\r\nBryan, what was your family life? It sounds like you come from a really good family.\r\n\r\nBryan (06:38):\r\n\r\nMy dad was a pastor. I watched his transformation. I watched him going to church, off and on, to really becoming really committed; to ultimately, saying: \u201cI want to be a minister,\u201d \u201cI want to be a pastor,\u201d \u201cI want to start a church.\u201d He started church when I was ten. But he's also a mechanic and kind of a craftsman. He takes these old buildings, and he remodels them; and he turns them into churches. \r\n\r\nMy middle school years are spent, after school, going to help him as he remodels this church into a facility. That was part of what we did\u2014very involved in church, very engaged in church. As a young man, I felt a call on my life to do ministry\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: At that age; super young.\r\n\r\nBryan: \u2014like 15, 16, 17\u2014I knew I wanted to be a pastor. \r\n\r\nNow, mind you, I expected every pastor to be bi-vocational. My plan was to teach school, be a principal, and be a pastor\u2014and just pull\u2014I felt like that connected me to the community. I could do all of it together; it just felt like a natural fit. So even when I went off to college, I was a science and education major; because I felt like: \u201cThis will be the pathway, where I can serve people, connect with people, help people.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (07:43):\r\n\r\nYou\u2019ll be Principal Carter.\r\n\r\nBryan (07:44):\r\n\r\nYeah! Listen, it all\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: Isn\u2019t that a movie?\r\n\r\nBryan: \u2014principal, pastor together\u2014it all goes together.\r\n\r\nAnn: Oh, yeah. \r\n\r\nBryan: So it felt like a natural kind of move. Watching my dad\u2014him and my mom together, learning how to treat a woman\u2014all of those things kind of collided when I met her. I always knew I wanted to get married. We were dating sophomore year in college. I knew I needed a wife, and so I'm looking. When we meet, it just is this connection. Even when we first start meeting, we're coming to church together. I\u2019m driving [to her place]; she\u2019s driving me to church. \r\n\r\nIt just is a connection there. I knew what I wanted: I wanted somebody to love the Lord; somebody who had goals and ambitions; somebody who was cute. All those things were part of what I was looking for. When I found her, I just said, \u201cMan, God, this is really an answer my prayer. This is what I've been looking for.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (08:37):\r\n\r\nWait a minute; I need to get over the hump of: \u201cWhat are you doing with\u2014he wants to go into ministry and be a pastor\u2014how did you get over that?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (08:44):\r\n\r\nShe's asking, because she's still not over it.\r\n\r\nStephanie (08:48):\r\n\r\nYeah; I don't think you\u2014as wives, you just never get\u2014you're always like, \u201cOkay, this is 20 years, so how much more?\u201d\r\n\r\n(08:58) I think Bryan's heart is what won me over; I could look past the ministry part. I was an education major\u2014I was an elementary education major\u2014he was middle school. We had these desires to teach. Like he said, we had never seen a full-service staffed pastor. It was: \u201cThis is what I do: \u2018I teach\u2019; and he had aspirations to be a principal. He was going to be a superintendent and that was going to be our life, and that was going to be our role. I really wasn't thinking, \u201cpastor's wife.\u201d I think the only time I would get really nervous about it is when his dad would talk about it. That would take me down. I remember his mom\u2014his mom was very traditional, very traditional house\u2014mine was the complete opposite.\r\n\r\nBryan (09:44):\r\n\r\nMy home church is a very small church, small family church. That's the church that I grew up in; that's where we met; that's where we're dating. Part of the transition is she's thinking, \u201cThis is where\u201d\u2014I thought I was going to succeed in my dad\u2014you're talking about 20 to 30 people, small Oklahoma city.\r\n\r\nStephanie (10:00):\r\n\r\nThat's on a good day.\r\n\r\nBryan (10:02):\r\n\r\nYou know, pastors count by threes. \r\n\r\nStephanie: It's about 15, like a small group. It's a small group; it\u2019s a small group.\r\n\r\nDave: A small group; needs three more people. \r\n\r\nBryan: It's a small, intimate family church; but he has a lot of outreach. In those kind of settings, it would've been hard for her to fit into this space. \r\n\r\nStephanie: I didn't fit.\r\n\r\nBryan: It didn\u2019t fit, and it was going to be a struggle; it really would've been. \r\n\r\nStephanie (10:29):\r\n\r\nIt already was a struggle. \r\n\r\nBryan: It was a struggle!\r\n\r\nAnn: Because you're strong; is that what you mean? \r\n\r\nStephanie: I was strong. And his dad would say things like, \u201cSo would you be up to taking piano lessons?\u201d \r\n\r\nBryan: I don't remember that now.\r\n\r\nStephanie (10:40):\r\n\r\nBryan, don't do this. Don\u2019t do this! \r\n\r\nThen, y'all\u2014my friends; I love my friends\u2014I would plead with them. They could go out and kick it, all night long; and then, they'd get up and go to whatever the hot church was in Oklahoma City. I'd be like, \u201cHey, you guys want to go to church with me?\u201d They're like, \u201cNo.\u201d I was like, \u201cPlease go to church with me!\u201d They were like, \u201cOkay, okay, okay; we'll go to church with you.\u201d They go; and one of my friends was like, \u201cIf anybody ever says that you don't love Bryan, I'm going to be like, \u2018She loves him a lot!\u2019 \u2018She loves him a lot!\u2019\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: Dave and I made this pact when we got married\u2014I was only 19; Dave was 22\u2014we came on staff with Athletes in Action with Cru. And then, a couple years later, we're like, \u201cLet's go to seminary; we're going to do this the rest of our lives.\u201d I made a pact with him, like, \u201cAlright, we're going to go to seminary; but you are not going to become a pastor. This is our deal; this is our deal. Because if you're going for that, I don't think I'm into that.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (11:47):\r\n\r\nShe literally said, \u201cI'm not doing that. I'll do ministry, but not that kind of ministry.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (11:52):\r\n\r\nBecause I had expectations; I had a vision of what I thought a pastor's wife was.\r\n\r\nDave (11:58):\r\n\r\nSort of what you saw.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:00):\r\n\r\nI wasn't that; I'm like, \u201dThey are going to hate me; and so, I can't do that.\u201d So you kind of get that.\r\n\r\nStephanie (12:03):\r\n\r\nI so get it.\r\n\r\nSo what\u2014Bryan is so vague right now\u2014you remember that time [you] had to preach?\r\n\r\nBryan (12:13):\r\n\r\nI had to preach in\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (12:15):\r\n\r\n\u2014your dad's church?\r\n\r\nBryan (12:16):\r\n\r\nNo, at another church. In African American context, sometimes, the pastor's wife will sing before the preacher gets up to preach.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:23):\r\n\r\nIt's the pastor's wife.\r\n\r\nBryan (12:24):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nAnn (12:25):\r\n\r\n\u2014or playing the piano?\r\n\r\nBryan (12:26):\r\n\r\nOr, sometimes, both. They call her up to sing.\r\n\r\nStephanie (12:32):\r\n\r\nI cannot sing.\r\n\r\nBryan (12:33):\r\n\r\nThat's not her gift. \r\n\r\nDave: They called you up to sing just because you\u2019re\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (12:36):\r\n\r\n\u2014out of nowhere?\r\n\r\nStephane: \u2014out of nowhere\r\n\r\nBryan (12:38):\r\n\r\n\u2014out of nowhere. She tried though; she tried.\r\n\r\nStephanie (12:40):\r\n\r\nAnd then, in the small church, y\u2019all, they even had the nerve to shade me or kind of tease me. Yes, they did, Bryan. Because they were like, \u201cThat's not\u201d\u2014whatever\u2014\"That's a worship song.\u201d I was like, \u201cYou know what?\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan (12:53):\r\n\r\nBut we made it! Needless to say, we made it through some seasons of testing, trying to find our roles.\r\n\r\nStephanie (13:01):\r\n\r\nOh, my goodness.\r\n\r\nBryan (13:02):\r\n\r\nI was trying to find myself\u2014she was trying to find hers\u2014and the box really didn't fit. So ultimately, what happens is we relocate to Texas. We move to the Dallas\/Fort Worth area. It would've been hard, trying to navigate through all the dynamics: family, ministry, family church. It would've been challenging\u2014not to say that\u2014I think, in my mind, I wanted to. But I think we went through a few challenges there; and it felt like, \u201cThis is not going to work.\u201d \r\n\r\nWe had a church meeting one Sunday, and it went really sour between me and my dad. It really was a moment, where I said, \u201cThis is not going to work\u201d; and I really wanted it to. I had a vision of what could happen\u2014I saw some things\u2014but that conflict that we had, I don't think I would've made it in ministry. I think it would have been hard in ministry; I think we've been hard on our marriage. Those tensions, ultimately, led to us relocating. We graduated together in May, and we moved to Texas the next month.\r\n\r\nAnn (14:09):\r\n\r\n\u2014which sounds like: \u201cThis is God's plan.\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan: It was.\r\n\r\nStephanie (14:11):\r\n\r\nIt definitely was God's plan. But I learned a valuable lesson during that season. My mom taught me how to pray. I'll never forget the year before we got married\u2014it was a true testing season\u2014things were getting thrown at us, left and right. I'll never forget\u2014my mom was like, \u201cDo you pray for Bryan?\u201d\u2014I was like, \u201cI do.\u201d And she was like, \u201cHow do you pray for him?\u201d I was like, \u201cHelp him to realize that he\u2026\u201d She was like, \u201cStephanie, that is not how you pray for him.\u201d She's like, \u201cYou need to pray for the future husband he's going to be; the future father; the future leader he's going to be.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (14:46):\r\n\r\nWhat did that sound like?\r\n\r\nStephanie (14:47):\r\n\r\nI said, \u201cIt definitely didn't sound like what I was doing before.\u201d I would be like, \u201cGod, just whatever the plans You have for Bryan, I pray that You will just surround him with people who can pour into him. I pray for the future husband he's going to be; how he will lead our family,\u201d\u2014and so on\u2014\"And I pray for the father he will be,\u201d\u2014just doing that prayer. \r\n\r\nAnd then, my mom was like, \u201cHave you told Bryan?\u201d Because our biggest issue was we did not want to live where we were going to live: \u201cWhere are we going to live?\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan (15:19):\r\n\r\n\u201cWhere are we going to live?\u201d We either stay in Oklahoma City, or we're going to move.\r\n\r\nStephanie (15:21):\r\n\r\nSo that was huge.\r\n\r\nBryan (15:23):\r\n\r\n\u2014huge.\r\n\r\nStephanie (15:24):\r\n\r\nThat was our biggest thing. My mom was like, \u201cDoes he know that you don't want to live here?\u201d And I said, \u201cYes.\u201d And she was like, \u201cOh, what am I asking? Of course, he knows you don't want to live here; I know you've told him.\u201d She's like, \u201cHave you prayed to God and asked Him about where He would have you to be?\u201d And I said, \u201cNo.\u201d And she was like, \u201cStephanie, I don't want you to tell Bryan anymore about what you don't want to do, or this or that. I need you to take that to God, and I need you to have faith in what God will have; and the plan that He has for y'all.\u201d I kept feeling like, \u201cNo, but see God\u2026\u201d And she's like, \u201cGod knows everything, and God is going to hear your prayer.\u201d \u201cBut He doesn't know his parents\u2026\u201d She's like, \u201cGod knows, and I need you to leave it there with Him.\u201d I said, \u201cAlright!\u201d\r\n\r\nSo I'm praying\u2014this is probably in August\u2014the church meeting that he talked about earlier, that happens in January. I haven't said anything; I haven't said anything else about it. \r\n\r\nAnn: Look at you. \r\n\r\nStephanie: I took it to God; I left it there. When the church meeting happens, I'm kind of like, in my head, the sassiness in me wanted to be like, \u201cNo, this is what you want. This is why you want to stay here.\u201d\r\n\r\nBryan (16:25):\r\n\r\nYeah, I was ready because I was so accustomed to some of the dynamics at work. You can manage them. But oftentimes, when you bring in someone that's outside, it's all like, \u201cWait a minute. How do we\u2026What's this?\u201d We were trying to [stay]; but the conflict, and the differences\u2014a lot of it was just differences\u2014you have one generation colliding with another generation. It's just a total opposite ways of view. And then, I'm young; and I'm probably a little bit arrogant. I'm thinking: \u201c\u2026my way,\u201d \u201c\u2026my way,\u201d \u201c\u2026 my way.\u201d I'm trying to change things at the church, probably, a bit too fast; or a bit too quickly, which is meeting with resistance. It just was a recipe for disaster.\r\n\r\nAnn (17:06):\r\n\r\nAnd probably creating tension between the relationship you had with your parents.\r\n\r\nBryan (17:10):\r\n\r\n\u2014my parents, especially, with my wife. So it is one of those things, where most young couples\u2014and we're not even married yet\u2014but managing through your parents, your spouse\/your fianc\u00e9\u2014trying to navigate that can be hard sometimes. I'm like, \u201cI'm caught in the middle, trying to make everybody happy.\u201d It was a bit rocky.\r\n\r\nRon (17:36):\r\n\r\nHey, friends; Ron Deal here, Director of FamilyLife Blended. Did you know Blended &amp;amp; Blessed\u2014the only worldwide livestream designed for couples and blended families\u2014is free this year? Saturday, April 18, we're going to be live in Oklahoma City. If you show up there, we're going to charge you for lunch. But other than that, it is free to livestream. Churches can bring a group of couples together, and enjoy the day, absolutely free. \r\n\r\nGayla Grace is going to be with us; Davey and Kristi Blackburn; Cheryl Shumake\u2019s going to be with us; Kathi Lipp; and Bryan Goins, our emcee. It's going to be a wonderful day; I hope you can join us. Learn more and get the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nDave (18:22):\r\n\r\nNow, as you look back\u2014here you are, 25 years later\u2014and we haven't even mentioned your book, Made to Last. \r\n\r\nAnn: We'll get to that; we'll get to that tomorrow. \r\n\r\nDave: But it's all about long-lasting relationships. \r\n\r\nDo you think that start\u2014prayer; I'm hearing, \u201cleaving and cleaving\u201d\u2014how important would you say, now 25 years in, that is to building a relationship that's made to last?\r\n\r\nStephanie (18:48):\r\n\r\nOh, I would say it's crucial; it's essential. I learned a valuable lesson. There was an issue where his dad did a sermon, and he talked about women and what they're supposed to wear. At that time, as a college student, you had your stuff on a rotation. He had an issue with pants, never knew it was an issue with pants. I had my little pants suit on, that he had bought me. The day\u2014it's like he knew\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (19:11):\r\n\r\nWait; his son had bought you the pantsuit; and his dad\u2019s talking about it. \r\n\r\nBryan (19:14):\r\n\r\nI did not know the rule; nobody knew the rules. \r\n\r\nStephanie: His dad does a sermon about pants. I'm like\u2014again, the church is small; on this day, I may have been eight people\u2014I'm the only one with pants. I just kept feeling like, \u201cNo, this is not going to work.\u201d \r\n\r\nTo make a long story short, I leave the church. I basically\u2014we almost end our engagement\u2014because I just saw my life, and I kept feeling like, \u201cI cannot do this.\u201d To have a marriage made to last, or relationship made to last, you also have to compromise. But then, you also have to let go of yourself. My parents had raised me to be very strong and very independent. I remember crying, calling my parents to tell them about what happened. My dad was like, \u201cStephanie, you're going to take that?\u201d And then, my mom was like, \u201cStephanie, this is something you have to pray about. This is y'all's first sign.\u201d Because we had not had any major things in our relationship, while we were dating\/in our engagement. This was the first true test. \r\n\r\nI'll never forget\u2014I go to another church; in the church that everybody goes to in Oklahoma City\u2014and I'm sitting there. There's an older woman sitting next to me, and she sees my engagement ring. She goes, \u201cOh, where's your husband?\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh, I'm not married.\u201d She was like, \u201cOh, where's your finance?\u201d I was like, \u201cOh, he goes to another church.\u201d And she was like, \u201cWell, baby, if you wear his ring, you need to be by his side.\u201d I was like, \u201cWell, see; you don't understand.\u201d \u201cI don't care; if you wear his ring, you need to be by his side.\u201d That was so convicting to me. I remember going back to the church\u2014going back\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (20:52):\r\n\r\n\u2014with a dress on.\r\n\r\nStephanie (20:54):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (20:55):\r\n\r\nGood for you!\r\n\r\nStephanie (20:55):\r\n\r\n\u2014with a dress on.\r\n\r\nDave: So you went back?\r\n\r\nStephanie: I went back; it was very humbling. I'm very competitive\u2014I've always played competitive sports together\u2014I felt like I was losing and that his dad had won. It was a battle; it was a battle.\r\n\r\nBryan (21:09):\r\n\r\nI think, when you talk about made-to-last couples and relationships, the last chapter in the book talks about resilience,\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (21:18):\r\n\r\n\u2014suffering, and trials.\r\n\r\nBryan (21:19):\r\n\r\n\u2014suffering, and the trials. I think her commitment to me\u2014her commitment to our relationship and being willing to face those challenges and obstacles\u2014and us willing to face those challenges and obstacles together, I think are essential for any relationship. \r\n\r\nI think, when things get hard\u2014if people quit; if someone says: \u201cI don't want to dive in,\u201d or \u201cI'm not going to deal with that,\u201d\u2014I think that's when we lose the strength of our relationships. It's the challenges and the obstacles that we go through together that we face, side by side; that we fight, back to back, together with those instead of fighting each other. That then, allows us to build something that's healthy, that's strong, that's reliable. \r\n\r\nNow, looking back, 25 years later, those moments, and challenges, and tensions, and conflicts, could have really driven us apart. They both were painful, and they were hard. I hate some of the things she had to go through. As a man, I had to figure out how to love her, protect her, support her. I probably didn't always do the best job. Well, I didn't do the best job, early on, in marriage. But I had to learn through those lessons.\r\n\r\n(22:22) She had to coach me, and I had to manage through them. But it's that resilience; it's that persevering; it's relying on our faith, watching God work on our hearts and our souls, watching God mature us; because sometimes, in our own immaturity, we become selfish and self-centered. We don't think about others. But now, looking back, I just can see God faithfully working through those moments\u2014faithfully, working through those challenges: growing her, growing me\u2014and really, giving us a peace about some of those things. Sometimes, you can't change other people.\r\n\r\nAnn (22:59):\r\n\r\n\u2014most of the time.\r\n\r\nBryan (22:59):\r\n\r\n\u2014most of the time. Most, you can't. But you learn to have a peace, and you learn how to navigate through some things in a way that honors God; but also, protects your relationship.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:25):\r\n\r\nWell, that was a great conversation with Bryan and Stephanie Carter.\r\n\r\nDave (23:28):\r\n\r\nYeah, I loved having them on. And as we said, they're on our FamilyLife Board. Actually, Bryan's written a book that we talked about today; and you can get it. The book's called Made to Last: 8 Principles to Build Long Lasting Relationships. And you can get it at the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com. I tell you what\u2014one of the best things we ever do for our marriage\u2014it's get away!\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (23:52):\r\n\r\nThat's true. \r\n\r\nDave (23:53):\r\n\r\n\u2014focus and work on our relationship. We don't want to do it\u2014it's hard to get on the calendar\u2014but when we do, we grow; and our marriage gets better.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:03):\r\n\r\nYou know what, though? What really goes along well with that getaway is something that's cheap or that's on sale.\r\n\r\nDave (24:09):\r\n\r\nYeah, we're talking about the Weekend to Remember, FamilyLife's marriage getaway; it's 40 percent off, right now, if you sign up. I tell you: \u201cYou don't want to miss this deal. It's a Friday night through Sunday morning. It's literally life-changing and legacy-changing for your marriage.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (24:26):\r\n\r\nAnd here are the sale dates: March 20 through the 30th; you can get that 40 percent off. So visit WeekendToRemember.com. There's no promo code needed. Again, that's WeekendToRemember.com to get that sale.\r\n\r\nDave (24:43):\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nCelebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/318128","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=318128"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/295627"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=318128"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=318128"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=318128"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=318128"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=318128"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=318128"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}