{"id":317913,"date":"2026-03-04T03:09:16","date_gmt":"2026-03-04T08:09:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/why-teens-and-preteens-dont-listen-and-how-to-make-them-want-to-dr-kathy-koch\/"},"modified":"2026-03-04T03:09:17","modified_gmt":"2026-03-04T08:09:17","slug":"why-teens-and-preteens-dont-listen-and-how-to-make-them-want-to-dr-kathy-koch","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-teens-and-preteens-dont-listen-and-how-to-make-them-want-to-dr-kathy-koch\/","title":{"rendered":"Why Teens and Preteens Don\u2019t Listen (and How to Make Them Want To): Dr. Kathy Koch"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Middle schoolers who grunt. Teens glued to screens. You love your kid\u2014but do they feel liked? On Family Life Today, Kathy Koch sits down with Dave Wilson and Ann Wilson to expose performance-driven parenting and show a better way. If you\u2019re tired of comparing, correcting, and panicking about faith, tech, or rebellion\u2014this conversation meets you in the mess and points you toward your child\u2019s heart.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>You love your kid\u2014but do they feel liked? Dr. Kathy Koch sits down with Dave and Ann Wilson to expose performance-driven parenting and show a better way.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":295627,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/006066bf-f801-425e-8fe8-b3fc015e3a94\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.85M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2855,2870],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[11404],"cwp_profile":[3534],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-317913","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-teens","category-tweens","podcast_series-kathy-koch-start-with-the-heart","cwp_profile-kathy-koch","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/317913\/why-teens-and-preteens-dont-listen-and-how-to-make-them-want-to-dr-kathy-koch","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/317913\/why-teens-and-preteens-dont-listen-and-how-to-make-them-want-to-dr-kathy-koch","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"78KXqk3Zgd\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-teens-and-preteens-dont-listen-and-how-to-make-them-want-to-dr-kathy-koch\/\">Why Teens and Preteens Don\u2019t Listen (and How to Make Them Want To): Dr. Kathy Koch<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-teens-and-preteens-dont-listen-and-how-to-make-them-want-to-dr-kathy-koch\/embed\/#?secret=78KXqk3Zgd\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Why Teens and Preteens Don\u2019t Listen (and How to Make Them Want To): Dr. Kathy Koch&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"78KXqk3Zgd\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Cover_1024x1024.jpg",1024,1024,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"You love your kid\u2014but do they feel liked? Dr. Kathy Koch sits down with Dave and Ann Wilson to expose performance-driven parenting and show a better way.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>Learn more about Kathy Koch and her book \"Start with the Heart\" at <a href=\"https:\/\/celebratekids.com\/\">celebratekids.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/\">Set sail on the Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise!<\/a> Now through 3\/31\/26, use promo code <strong>CruiseMadness27<\/strong> and enjoy exclusive savings on your stateroom.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Thanks to the Christian Standard Bible for sponsoring this episode. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/CSBible.com\">CSBible.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Follow us on all social platforms: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/familylifeministry\">Facebook<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/familylife.today\/\">Instagram<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLSzse1nmlqbLhDx5FpGVDgLmxy1rmQBau\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from our podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Download <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2026-03-04.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nWhy Teens and Preteens Don\u2019t Listen (How to Make Them Want To)\r\n\r\nGuest:Kathy Koch\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Start with the Heart (Day 1 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:March 4, 2026\r\n\r\nKathy (00:04):\r\n\r\nThere's way too many parents today\u2014and I'll just be bold and say this\u2014who believe that the child's job is to perform so that they look good to their peer group on social media, et cetera. Kids become performers; and kids become human doings, former human beings. There's no freedom in that.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:29):\r\n\r\nWelcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave (00:36):\r\n\r\nAnd I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife  Today. \r\n\r\nDave: We've got Kathy Koch in the studio. I want to jump into your book, which is Start with the Heart: How to Motivate Your Kids to Be Compassionate, Responsible, and Brave (Even When You're Not Around). I want to go there\u2014but I do want to do this; I think you're going to be golden at this\u2014I wrote down, in my notes, \u201cTop Three Things\u201d\u2014I'm just going to throw them at you\u2014whatever comes to your mind, when I say, \u201cTop three things middle school kids are struggling with.\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (01:12):\r\n\r\nBelieving that they're worth anything to anyone would be one of them. \r\n\r\nFeeling hopeless and helpless.\r\n\r\nAnd invisible and in the way, so \u201cI have no value.\u201d Some of them have said to me, Dave: \u201cI know I have value\u2014God made me, and Jesus died for me\u2014but I don't feel valuable here.\u201d The struggle is real in their environment of a home; and the school; and even, maybe, a youth group. I think that would be huge.\r\n\r\nAnn: How about this?\r\n\r\nDave (01:38):\r\n\r\nYou don't have to do three.\r\n\r\nDon\u2019t do three; how about this one? \u201cParents should stop doing what?\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (01:43):\r\n\r\nOh, comparing their children to anybody else. When you empty the backpack\u2014and you have a child with a 94; a child with an 87; or a kid just ran a track meet\u2014you don't say, \u201cHow did the other kids do?\u201d Because you're not raising anybody but your kid. As soon as you say, \u201cHow did the other kids do?\u201d\u2014your kid, with the 94, is going to feel like it's not good enough unless it was the best of the best scores. \r\n\r\nSo comparison\u2019s already on social media\u2014it's already the mirror effect, if you will\u2014but we don't need to be comparing. We need to raise the children we were given, and we don't need to worry about where they stand in a hierarchy with other kids.\r\n\r\nAnn (02:16):\r\n\r\nHere's one: \u201cWhat are the questions the parents are asking?\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (02:21):\r\n\r\n\u201cHow do I get my kid off the phone?\u201d\u2014would be one, which I know you two have strong feelings about that as well.\r\n\r\n\u201cHow do I get him to listen to me?\u201d\r\n\r\n\u201c How do I get him to be obedient with the phone?\u2014turn in the phone\u2014stop gaming. A lot of technology questions, I think, would be huge. \r\n\r\n\u201cHow do I get them to answer, more than a grunt?\u201d A lot of our parents do care deeply about the children; and they want to know, \u201cHow is school?\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (02:42):\r\n\r\nThey want to know their kids.\r\n\r\nKathy (02:43):\r\n\r\nThey want to know their kids. Of course, kids are grunting, and saying: \u201cOkay,\u201d \u201cFine,\u201d \u201cGood,\u201d and not elaborating. That's a big issue.\r\n\r\nDave (02:51):\r\n\r\nWhat would you say is the question, or two, that the parents should be asking?\r\n\r\nKathy (02:56):\r\n\r\n\u201cHow can I help you?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (02:57):\r\n\r\nSo asking your child that.\r\n\r\nKathy (02:58):\r\n\r\nYeah\u2014not: \u201cCan I help?\u201d\u2014because that\u2019s \"Yes or no.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (03:02):\r\n\r\nOh, that's good.\r\n\r\nKathy (03:02):\r\n\r\nAnd kids want to be independent, even though they know they need the parents; so \u201cHow can I help you?\u201d And then, maybe, even follow that up with a multiple choice: \u201cDo you need space?\u201d \u201cDo you need supplies?\u201d \u201cDo you need an answer?\u201d \u201cDo you need guidance?\u201d Sometimes, we would follow up with a multiple-choice option there; \u201cHow can I help you?\u201d\r\n\r\nI think, when kids come to us\u2014and we know they're confused\u2014I think we ask, \u201cHow did you arrive at that conclusion? What makes you think that is true?\u201d If they come to you with a gender question\u2014or a competition question: \u201cI just don't feel strong enough,\u201d or \u201c\u2026smart enough,\u201d or \u201cI wish I could run faster,\u201d\u2014\"Well, what makes you think that would be good for you? What makes you think that is true? Who's taught you that?\u201d Because listening to somebody; I think that would be huge.\r\n\r\n(03:47) Another question that I love asking young people is: \u201cWhat happens if you're wrong?\u201d If a kid comes to you\u2014and they think that they can change their gender; or they think that they should drop an advanced chemistry course and just have a study period; or they don't want to go out for a spring sport this year, but they've always played a sport\u2014and you say, \u201cWell, what if you're wrong?\u201d I think that's discernment; that helps the kid think things through, maybe, in another way. Now, the parent is the one who's in the conversation to guide the conversation rather than asking Siri, or Google, or even a friend at school.\r\n\r\nAnn (04:22):\r\n\r\nOh, that's so interesting. I just flashed back to being a senior in high school. I was a track runner; and I remember telling my dad, \u201cI'm not going to run this year.\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (04:32):\r\n\r\nCome on!\r\n\r\nAnn (04:32):\r\n\r\nMy first year in six years: \u201cI'm not going to run.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (04:34):\r\n\r\nOf course, her dad was a coach; he coached me. He was really involved in sports\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: He didn't coach track. \r\n\r\nDave: \u2014not a track coach\u2014 \r\n\r\nKathy: Okay; but he was in\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014he was a coach.\r\n\r\nKathy: \u2014a coach, who loved athletics.\r\n\r\nAnn (04:42):\r\n\r\nIf he would've asked me a question like that, and put it on me, it would've changed everything.\r\n\r\nKathy (04:49):\r\n\r\nInteresting.\r\n\r\nAnn (04:50):\r\n\r\nInstead,\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (04:50):\r\n\r\nOh, go ahead; tell them what he did. I love Dick Barron; he's amazing.\r\n\r\nAnn (04:54):\r\n\r\nMy dad was amazing.\r\n\r\nDave: He\u2019s with the Lord now.\r\n\r\nAnn: But he said, \u201cI'm not going to talk to you until you change your mind, because you have to go out.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: And he didn\u2019t! \r\n\r\nAnn: He didn't talk to me for seven days. I remember saying to him, \u201cNow, you're just being immature.\u201d \r\n\r\nKathy (05:10):\r\n\r\nYou said that, out loud?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes; I\u2019m pretty spunky, Kathy; you can tell that.\r\n\r\nDave: That's why I married this girl; she doesn't hide anything.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:13):\r\n\r\n\u201cWhat if he would've given me\u2014like, \u201cWhat if he [had said]\u2014\u201cOkay, what would happen if you don't do that?\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (05:18):\r\n\r\nRight, right.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:20):\r\n\r\nAnd \u201cWhat would it look like if you did?\u201d\u2014just to pose some questions, that might've gotten me to thinking: \u201cWhy don't I want to go out?\u201d and \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (05:28):\r\n\r\nExactly.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:30):\r\n\r\nI could have answered that: It was because of fear, and I didn't want to fail. There's so much more underneath some of the things that our kids are doing and asking.\r\n\r\nKathy (05:42):\r\n\r\nAbsolutely.\r\n\r\nAnn (05:42):\r\n\r\nI feel like all of your material is golden.\r\n\r\nDave (05:45):\r\n\r\nHey, I\u2019ll ask one last question before we jump into Start with the Heart.\r\n\r\nKathy (05:48):\r\n\r\nWe started\u2014this is all in Start with the Heart\u2014actually.\r\n\r\nDave (05:51):\r\n\r\nI know it is; isn\u2019t it? \r\n\r\nIt [the question] would be this\u2014because I know a lot of our listeners\u2014this is \u201cTop three,\u201d probably:\r\n\r\n\u201cHow do I ignite my child's spiritual faith?\u201d\u2014that's their dream\u2014\"I want him\u201d or \u201c\u2026her, when they're adults, to walk with God.\u201d They're a middle school kid.\r\n\r\nOr \u201cWhat do I do?\u201d \r\n\r\nOr \u201c\u2026don't I do?\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (06:12):\r\n\r\nThe first thing that comes to mind shouldn't be hard; and that is that we model a vibrant relationship with the God of the Bible. We wake up, talking about Him. They see us honor the Word of God. They see us pull the Word out, randomly on a Thursday morning, not just a Wednesday night, Sunday morning. We talk about what we read in the Word. We talk about the experience we had in our prayer walk. \r\n\r\nI think we teach them how the Holy Spirit leads. One of the questions a lot of young people are asking me is: \u201cDr. Kathy, you talk about the Holy Spirit guiding you. I've heard my mom or my pastor talk about the leading of the Holy Spirit; but Dr. Kathy, I don't know how that works. How do I know if it's I just want to do it versus God is telling me \u2018how to do it.\u2019\u201d \r\n\r\n\u201cHow do we ignite?\u201d\u2014we teach and train; we don't tell and yell. That's, again, part of the passion of the ministry.\r\n\r\nAnn (07:02):\r\n\r\nI'm seeing listeners\u2014if this is me listening\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cTeach and train, and don\u2019t tell and yell.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014I'd be writing down every single one of these things.\r\n\r\nKathy (07:07):\r\n\r\nYeah, I think we teach; and we train. I think we ask: \r\n\r\n\u201cWhat would you like to know about spiritual development or spiritual growth?\u201d\r\n\r\nOr \u201cWhere are you frustrated, in any part of your relationship with God?\u201d\r\n\r\n\u2014to let them\u2014but you know what, Ann? It's like, if they're secure with us\u2014if they trust us, if there's no fear\u2014then, I've asked a son or daughter: \u201cIs there anything that you'd like to grow into? Is there any part of your walk with God that's dissatisfying?\u201d And then, they could be honest with us; and then, we say: \u201cHow can I help with that?\u201d \u201cAre you ready to want some help?\u201d I think we're very bold in that way. \r\n\r\nI'll say again, though, it starts with us modeling a vibrant desire to be in a relationship with God; and the fact that He matters greatly to us\u2014He is not a Sunday-morning, Wednesday-night God\u2014He's a 24\/7, 365 God. I could say much more, but I'll leave it at that for now.\r\n\r\nDave (08:01):\r\n\r\nThat's big.\r\n\r\nAnn (08:02):\r\n\r\nAnd because we're talking about your book, Start with the Heart, I think that is a little segue. All of those things are connecting with your kids' hearts when we know our kids. I think those are so good.\r\n\r\nKathy (08:13):\r\n\r\nOh, thank you.\r\n\r\nDave (08:14):\r\n\r\nSo what does that mean?\u2014\u201cStart with the heart.\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (08:17):\r\n\r\nPrioritize your heart's relationship, and the love that you have\u2014which I pray is unconditional\u2014there's nothing they can do to earn it or to lose it. It's not that they perform for us; they are with us. Securing the heart is: \r\n\r\n\u201cThere's nothing that you can do that would cause me to walk away.\u201d\r\n\r\n\u201cThere's nothing that you can do that would cause me to walk towards you more.\u201d\r\n\r\n\u201cWe just are; we are family, and we are it. We're in this for the long haul, just as God is with us for the long haul.\u201d\r\n\r\nIt's honesty, dependability, responsibility. \r\n\r\nIt's asking to be forgiven, expecting that to happen; but not demanding it in a rude and a bossy kind of a way, if I could put it that way. \r\n\r\nIt's being present. \r\n\r\n(09:08) Securing the heart happens, to you guys, when we like our children. I don't know if you've had children or grandchildren tell you this; but sometimes, when I interview children, they'll say: \u201cWell, my dad has to love me; he doesn't have a choice,\u201d or \u201cGod has to love me,\u201d and \u201cI love that he loves me; but Dr. Kathy, I wish my dad would like me.\u201d And then, when I asked children\u2014and even, back in the day when I taught second graders, forever ago\u2014\u201cWell, what would cause you to feel liked?\u201d The majority of the answer would be: \u201cThey asked to play with me.\u201d \r\n\r\nRather than the kid always saying, \u201cHey, Dad, do you want to shoot hoops?\u201d or \u201cMom, could we play checkers?\u201d or \u201cGrandma, do you have time to color with me?\u201d\u2014when the adult approaches the child, and says: \u201cHey, do you want to color together?\u201d or \u201cDo you want to shoot hoops?\u201d or \u201cWould you like to play checkers?\u201d\u2014the kid feels noticed in that moment; and the child feels valued in that moment. \r\n\r\nAnd then, you know what, you guys? They see the parents sacrifice, when children say, \u201cDaddy put his phone down, and Daddy went outside with me,\u201d\u2014come on! That\u2019s huge! \r\n\r\nAnd I think that's huge between a husband and a wife. When you prioritize, and when you sacrifice, I think kids feel something very different\u2014certainly, that's love, but it's also like\u2014and you know what? When you're liked, you're much more likely to be obedient. When you're liked, you're much more likely to want to be present in that relationship; I think it changes everything.\r\n\r\nDave (10:14):\r\n\r\nIt's interesting you mentioned marriage. Ann's latest book was about: How to Speak Life to Your Husband: When All You Want to Do Is Yell at Him. One of the stories we tell in there is: I was with my men's group on a trip. I said to them, in the rental car\u2014I think four other guys\u2014\"Hey, question number one: \u2018Do you feel like your wife loves you?\u2019\u201d I know all their wives; I know their families. Every guy, within five seconds: \u201cYep, wife loves me.\u201d \u201cSecond question: \u2018Do you feel like your wife likes you?\u2019\u201d Every guy, within five seconds, \u2018Nope.\u2019\u201d They're all like, \u201cWilson, what's this about?!\u201d \r\n\r\nKathy (10:45):\r\n\r\nYeah, what'd you do next?\r\n\r\nDave (10:46):\r\n\r\nIsn't that interesting; isn't it? They all said, \u201cI think she's disappointed.\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy: Oh, how sad. \r\n\r\nDave: \u201cI know she loves me. I know she's not leaving; we're in a covenant marriage. But I feel like, every day, she's critiquing me. She's trying to\u2014it is like I'm a fixer-upper,\u201d\u2014 blah, blah, blah, blah. \r\n\r\nI think we do that in our marriage, and I think our kids feel the same way.\r\n\r\nAnn (11:03):\r\n\r\nI know we do. Because what happens with kids\u2014and this is a good thing\u2014as parents, we're training our kids; we're teaching our kids; we're training them.\r\n\r\nDave (11:12):\r\n\r\nOh, wait, the wait, wait\u2014\"Teach and train; don't yell and tell\u201d\u2014\u201ctell and yell.\u201d Yeah, okay; I got it.\r\n\r\nAnn (11:16):\r\n\r\nBut what happens is we do yell. Sometimes, we fall into these bad habits; especially, when teenagers are having an attitude; or they get\/we say \u201clazy.\u201d And I think what happens is we stop speaking life to our kids or asking them great questions. I think so many kids would say, \u201cYeah, my parents don't like me; because they're always yelling at me,\u201d or \u201c\u2026they're always telling me what to do.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (11:42):\r\n\r\n\u2014or \u201c\u2026not listening to me.\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy: Right.\r\n\r\nAnn (11:45):\r\n\r\nI started this thing, last year, with a couple of our grandkids. The reason I did it again this year is because I said, \u201cWhat\u2019s your favorite thing you did all summer?\u201d They said, \u201cIt's when we walked the river with you.\u201d I'm like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d They said, \u201cYeah, when you told us: \u2018Let's go walk this river.\u2019\u201d They're four; at the time, they were three and five. It was rapids, and it was only like knee deep; but it was an adventure, and it was risky. I was saying, \u201cI know you can do this; it's going to be fun\u201d; I pursued them. \r\n\r\nYou're saying those are the kind of things that, when we pursue kids\u2014we're asking them questions, looking them in the eye\u2014and even asking, that's the chapter title\u2014\u201cHow Are You Doing?\u201d\u2014that's getting into their hearts.\r\n\r\nKathy (12:33):\r\n\r\nYes. What's so important in all of this, you guys, is that we have to believe that our children's job is not to be excellent so we look excellent. Part of the fear here\u2014part of the yelling and part of the we choose to distance from family members\u2014is there's way too many parents today\u2014and I'll just be bold and say this\u2014who believe that the child's job is to perform so that they look good to their peer group on social media, et cetera. Kids become performers; and kids become human doings, former human beings. There's no freedom in that. It's really back to you and your dad\u2014and the whole: \u201cI don't want to run track. I'm fearful that I'll disappoint you.\u201d You perceived that you didn't want your dad disappointed. \r\n\r\nSo can parents recognize that they weren't given children so that they would look good? They weren't given children to perform for them. Children are going to be children; and they're going to make mistakes, because that's how children learn. We have to separate that out. We can teach and train the very best that we can; and we can motivate; and we can pray for them\u2014and they're still children\u2014that's just reality.\r\n\r\nAnn (13:43):\r\n\r\nDave, what's one question about intimacy that you've always wanted to ask but you were too afraid?\r\n\r\nDave (13:49):\r\n\r\nI'm afraid to answer the question you just asked me.\r\n\r\nAnn (13:53):\r\n\r\nMaybe, now is not the appropriate time?\r\n\r\nDave (13:56):\r\n\r\nIntimacy is something that's hard to talk about.\r\n\r\nAnn (13:59):\r\n\r\nWell, what if the questions you're too embarrassed to ask are the ones your marriage actually really needs answered?\r\n\r\nDave (14:07):\r\n\r\nThat's the topic of Marriage After Dark, which is FamilyLife's newest podcast, where a real married couple answers all the questions couples secretly Google about sex. And if you want a stronger connection or deeper intimacy and a healthier marriage, this is your space.\r\n\r\nAnn (14:26):\r\n\r\nAnd right now, it's only available to a select FamilyLife audience. For more, go to FamilyLife.com\/MarriageAfterDark.\r\n\r\nDave (14:36):\r\n\r\nI'll tell you the conversation your marriage needs shouldn't stay in the dark. \r\n\r\nDave: Well, let me ask you\u2014you said, earlier, the child is longing\u2014[they] want to feel loved and accepted for who they are\u2014let's go there: \u201cWhat if they're making decisions, \u2014especially, now, middle school, high school; maybe, older\u2014that we disagree with?\u201d\u2014let's say: \u201cI'm leaving the faith. I don't believe, Mom and Dad, what you've taught me.\u201d As a parent.\u201d How do we love them in that?\r\n\r\nKathy (15:12):\r\n\r\nWe love them obediently, and I don't say that lightly. We're called to love\u2014we're called to stand in the trenches with them and to teach the truth\u2014love is true. Let's look at \r\n\r\n1 Corinthians 13. What if we took that out of the wedding ceremony\u2014or leave it there; leave it in the marriage\u2014leave 1 Corinthians 13 in the marriage. But let's add it to the parenting piece: \u201cLove is enduring; and love is kind; and love is patient, and love is true and tells the truth.\u201d \r\n\r\nWe say to our kids, \u201cI'm disappointed.\u201d You have a right to your disappointment\u2014I tell this to parents all the time\u2014now, you have to be careful what you say and you, you're careful how you communicate that you don't want the kid to be shamed and blamed; and choose to, then, isolate. But you have a right to say, \u201cWhoa; that's somewhat surprising, given the way that we're raising you.\u201d And then, I think we earn the right to say: \u201cWhat makes you think that's true?\u201d or \u201cWhy is that a good idea?\u201d \r\n\r\nOr, again, first question, maybe, is: \u201cWhy do you think this is good for you?\u201d I can almost guarantee you, Dave, they heard something\/they overheard something; they saw something; they experienced someone or something; and they've got this idea, up here; and they're asking\u2014they're telling you\u2014they could have asked you; but rather than asking you, which gives you authority, they don't want you to have, they tell you. And then we need to say, \u201cWhoa.\u201d I think, again, you can say that you're surprised.\r\n\r\nAnn (16:28):\r\n\r\nIt's okay to say that?\r\n\r\nKathy (16:29):\r\n\r\nIf you're raising children with values\u2014and they go against the values, you better be surprised\u2014if your goal, as a mom and a dad, is to raise up children to believe these things. If you have family values\u2014I write in this book, and in other books: \u201cKnow your values,\u201d\u2014and don't assume your kids are going to pick up on them simply because they live with you. Communicate your values: \u201cWe are prolife; here's why\u2026.\u201d \"We are generous in times of want and plenty; here's why\u2026\u201d \r\n\r\nYou have values, and you teach them and model them before your children. If they contradict those values\u2014which, again the Scripture wins: \u201cGod's ways are the right and the best ways; when they go against that, we're not\u2026\u201d\u2014I think, because the culture's chaotic, and the liar is loud, I don't think we should panic or be shocked that that's happening, even if we feel like we're doing a really good job, within the walls of our home. So we say, \u201cOh, boy; that's surprising. Where did that idea come from? It didn't come from within the walls of this house.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd then, again, they might grunt at you that first day; and might not answer that question. But ideally, we hang with them. And if your love is unconditional, you still go out for ice cream; you still do your daddy\/daughter donut date.\r\n\r\nAnn (17:34):\r\n\r\nYou're still acting like you always have; you love them.\r\n\r\nKathy (17:37):\r\n\r\nPlease, absolutely. If you don\u2019t\/if you separate, you'll have fewer opportunities to influence their becoming-beliefs, if I can put it that way. So let's recognize\u2014to the parent\/grandparent listening\u2014these are hard things. We know that there's, maybe, some trauma and some fear in that. We don't want you to parent out of fear. Again, this is why we're here; it's why we have the Holy Scripture, which is accurate and much more practical than a lot of people think. \r\n\r\nAnd if I could say one more thing, it would be: \u201cWe don't make it about us,\u201d\u2014in this moment, where, they come to us: \u201cI'm wondering about dropping out of school\u201d; \u201cI was looking up GED is really easy; and then, I can just go be the entrepreneur\u201d; or again, gender, or premarital sex, or something really big and ugly\/the hairy spider in the corner\u2014those are really scary things. But we don't panic; and we still love them, strong, in those moments. We still hang with them. \r\n\r\nWhat if we also said the good things that are still going on? In other words\u2014here, let me go here\u2014they say that they think they might want to change their gender. It's in the back of your mind and in your prayer corner, if you will. But you still talk about: \r\n\r\n\u201cIn what ways were you creative today?\u201d \r\n\r\n\u201cHey Brian, we're raising you to be generous; how were you generous today?\u201d\r\n\r\nWe still talk about all the other things; because otherwise, all they are is a walking billboard for gender dysfunction; and we don't want that.\r\n\r\nAnn (18:57):\r\n\r\nAnd you've written a book about gender.\r\n\r\nKathy (18:59):\r\n\r\nWe have. \r\n\r\nAnn (18:59):\r\n\r\nIt's called\u2014\r\n\r\nKathy (19:01):\r\n\r\n\u2014Raising Gender-Confident Kids, because we want that. My coauthor is Dr. Jeff Myers, and we're excited about that book. We wrote that because the confusion is real. We wanted to give a tool to the parents who are really concerned, because we don't want them parenting out of fear. There is wisdom in these days of confusion.\r\n\r\nDave (19:17):\r\n\r\nAnd you start this book with: \u201cRelationships Rule.\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (19:20):\r\n\r\nYes. \r\n\r\nDave (19:21):\r\n\r\nAs a parent, what does that mean; and why is that important?\r\n\r\nKathy (19:24):\r\n\r\nYeah, because they've got to know you; and you've got to know them. It's not about performing; it's about relating. It's about love and like, and passion, and forgiveness, and accountability; it's about character, really, in that thing. They're not going to listen to you if they don't think you know them. Why would they? There's a chatbot out there that they think knows them better than a mom\u2014it's really a frightening thing\u2014or the lyricist of that song that they love.\r\n\r\nAnn (19:49):\r\n\r\n\u201cThey get me.\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (19:50):\r\n\r\nYeah; \u201cThey get me\u201d; exactly. You know what it is? \r\n\r\nIt's hanging out; it's being present, without your phone.\r\n\r\nInviting them to cut the carrots. Even if it takes longer for the salad to be prepared, who cares? \r\n\r\nYou make the effort to ask one of your sons to go with you on the errands you\u2019re going to run that night, even though you might be an introvert, and you might want the quiet; you might want to listen to a podcast\u2014I get that\u2014but you're a parent in the moment; and you've got only a few moments left. You sacrifice yourself again; and you say, \u201cHey, come with me to the store. Let's have some talk-time.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (20:19):\r\n\r\nAnd I think, too: \u201cFigure out: \u2018What are the best ways, and the best times, to get to know your kids?\u2019\u201d I know for us: laying down at night, praying for them; we end up\u2014it could start out with five minutes; it could be an hour\u2014and kids don't want to sleep when they're younger. You can lay there for an hour, just talking. And when they get older, it's a little different; but you're still so interested.\r\n\r\nDave (20:39):\r\n\r\nYou get older: it's food, at the kitchen counter, at midnight.\r\n\r\nAnn (20:43):\r\n\r\n\u2014and just asking them: \u201cWhat's going on?\u201d\r\n\r\nI love how practical you get. Is there anything else we can do, as parents, to get to their hearts to really know them? Especially, with a teen, who\u2019s a little more like, \u201cWait,\u201d\u2014suspicious\u2014like, \u201cWait; what are you doing?\u201d\r\n\r\nKathy (20:58):\r\n\r\nI think us being appropriately vulnerable is valuable, sharing age-appropriate things from your past. Don't make something about you in the moment; it's about them. But then, later, you look for the opportunity to talk about, maybe, a vulnerable time in your life: \u201cHow did you handle that fear?\u201d and \u201cWho did you go to for wisdom?\u201d \u201cHow did you become resilient so that you would bounce back from that difficult situation?\u201d I think that's cool.\r\n\r\nAnn (21:19):\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nKathy (21:19):\r\n\r\nI think, talking to the children, one-on-one. We have a tendency\u2014at dinner, there's seven kids at the table\u2014\u201cHow was school?\u201d And they go around the table. No kid, in front of the siblings, is going to talk about the fact that they were teased in school; or that they feel like they made a fool of themselves in front of everybody at the whiteboard. So, ideally, we take time for those one-on-one conversations. Bedtime's huge; they don't like looking at our faces if they're going to disappoint us. They tell us that: they don't want to see your face when they make you mad.\r\n\r\nAnn (21:45):\r\n\r\nIt's true.\r\n\r\nKathy (21:46):\r\n\r\nRight?!\u2014so they like the dark. Even men and women have told me they're more vulnerable in the dark. \r\n\r\nIn the same way, I'm going for a walk, and kicking a rock\u2014because they can't look at you while they're doing that\u2014it's easier, especially for boys, to be vulnerable. Boys will always tell you more when they're busy doing something; they're more shoulder-to-shoulder communicators. Where women are more eyeball-to-eyeball, with the interrogation at the kitchen table. I think you're right, Ann, about choosing the right time and the space. \r\n\r\nAnd what if we did open-ended questions?\u2014\u201cWhat do you want me to know about you today?\u201d\u2014what would they say? I remember doing jury duty, forever ago. There were these two men; and they were in suits and they had the leather briefcases. The courtroom in my city is really in downtown, near all the high-rise buildings. My guess is that they were lawyers\u2014and when we were done, they were going to go\u2014or accountants\u2014and they were going to go to some building. \r\n\r\nI watched these two men begin to interact when we were waiting to see if we would be needed. This one guy says, \u201cSo what\/what's your life all about?\u201d The guy pulled out pictures, and said, \u201cI'm married to the finest woman in Fort Worth.\u201d And then, \u201cCould I show you my kids? They're amazing.\u201d And then, the other guy is like, \u201cOh, my wife is better than yours. And let me show you my kids.\u201d I watched them have a very meaningful, relatively deep conversation about family. I know\u2014if they would've said, \u201dSo what do you do for a living?\u201d \u2014they would've talked for 20 minutes about being an accountant, or a lawyer, or fill in the blank. But they talked about family, because there was this open-ended opportunity to do so.\r\n\r\n(23:09) \u201cWhat do you want me to know about you? Tell me about your day.\u201d Is it, again, an open-ended question? I love asking kids: \u201cWhen were you curious today?\u201d \u201cWhen did you feel hopeful today?\u201d \u201cWhen did you feel helpless today?\u201d and \u201cHow did you handle it?\u201d\u2014asking about their heart; going to that place. \r\n\r\nAgain, you don't have to have all the right answers; you don't have to know what to say when they say, \u201cI was hopeless in this minute.\u201d Then, you say, \u201cWell, how did you handle it?\u201d And God's going to lead you.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:41):\r\n\r\nI really love being with Kathy Koch.\r\n\r\nDave (23:43):\r\n\r\nI knew you were going to say that; of course, you do.\r\n\r\nAnn (23:45):\r\n\r\nYou guys, it's like this fire hose of information, that I'm like, \u201cWait; what'd she say, again?\u201d It's like I need to listen to that over and over.\r\n\r\nDave (23:52):\r\n\r\nI'm like, \u201cI don't know if I can remember it all.\u201d And neither can you; that's why you go get the book. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; click on the link in the show notes and get her book, Start with the Heart; which is, How to Motivate Your Kids to Be Compassionate, Responsible, and Brave (Even When You're Not Around).\r\n\r\nAnn (24:09):\r\n\r\nAnd we'll have her back on tomorrow, so make sure you're back with us.\r\n\r\nDave (24:13):\r\n\r\nOur financial partners are the heartbeat of this ministry. When you join this monthly giving community, you're not just donating, you're building something eternal.\r\n\r\nAnn (24:23):\r\n\r\nAnd we'd be so honored to have you on the journey with us; we really would. So here's the question: \u201cWill you join us today?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (24:33):\r\n\r\nI hope your answer is \u201cYes\u201d; and if it is, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can click the \u201cDonate\u201d button right there, and become a part of the Monthly Partner Program.\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nCelebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?\r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/317913","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=317913"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/295627"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=317913"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=317913"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=317913"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=317913"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=317913"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=317913"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}