{"id":317460,"date":"2025-12-16T04:52:22","date_gmt":"2025-12-16T09:52:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund\/"},"modified":"2025-12-16T04:52:23","modified_gmt":"2025-12-16T09:52:23","slug":"to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund\/","title":{"rendered":"To the Tenth Generation: Ray Ortlund"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>When the world feels unsettled and family life feels small \u2014 pastor, author, and ministry leader Ray Ortlund and his wife Jani tip our eyes toward eternity. From Beatles concerts to bedtime prayers, they trace 54 years of everyday love, sharing God\u2019s breathtaking promise to bless families \u201cto a thousand generations.\u201d If you\u2019ve ever wondered whether your family life matters in eternity, this episode will renew your courage \u2014 and your awe.<\/p>\n<p data-pm-slice=\"1 1 []\">Thanks for tuning into FamilyLife Today. If you heard us on your local radio station, don\u2019t worry you have found that same programming here in a full length episode.<\/p>\n<p data-pm-slice=\"1 1 []\"><strong fetchpriority=\"high\">Show Notes and Resources<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p>Get the book: &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/renewalministries.com\/to-the-tenth-generation-your-family-is-gods-plan\/\">To the 10th Generation: God\u2019s Heart for Your Family Far into the Future<\/a>&#8221; by visiting the Ortlund&#8217;s website<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/app\/\">FamilyLife&#8217;s app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife&#8217;s podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.familylife.com\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When the world feels unsettled and family life feels small \u2014 pastor, author, and ministry leader Ray Ortlund and his wife Jani tip our eyes toward eternity.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":312569,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/b2dda255-33b9-4824-9d38-b3a0010992c8\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"01:01:10","filesize":"56.04M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2833,2806],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[11224,9452],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-317460","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-godly-legacy","category-spiritual-development","cwp_profile-jani-ortlund","cwp_profile-ray-ortlund","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/317460\/to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/317460\/to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"iuxVASRGzt\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund\/\">To the Tenth Generation: Ray Ortlund<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund\/embed\/#?secret=iuxVASRGzt\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;To the Tenth Generation: Ray Ortlund&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"iuxVASRGzt\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["b2dda255-33b9-4824-9d38-b3a0010992c8"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/b2dda255-33b9-4824-9d38-b3a0010992c8\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["01:01:10"],"filesize":["56.04M"],"_thumbnail_id":["312569"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-12-16.pdf"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson; Podcast Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nTo the Tenth Generation\r\n\r\nGuests:           Ray and Jani Ortlund \r\n\r\nRelease Date: December 16, 2025\r\n\r\nJani (00:00:00):\r\n\r\nGod has promised: \u201cI want to use your precious family to further My redemptive plan. Your family is crucial in My plan to redeem My world; watch Me.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:00:13):\r\n\r\nAnd when we just bow down before the Lord\u2014and say, \u201dI offer myself to You; I offer my family to You. I bow down; I surrender,\u201d\u2014God says, \u201cNow, that's what I'm talking about\u201d; and He will make it happen.\r\n\r\nJani (00:00:25):\r\n\r\nJust say, \u201cYes.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:00:31):\r\n\r\nAlright. We've got Ray and Jani Ortlund in the studio; what a pleasure to have you. We've had Dane in here many times. He's been on the Love Like You Mean It\u00ae cruise with us and had a great time. I found out something\u2014I don't know, Jani, if you were there\u2014but that Ray got to do; I've never been able to do in my entire life.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:00:51):\r\n\r\nOh, what?\r\n\r\nDave (00:00:51):\r\n\r\nIt is a bucket list that I wish\u2014it'll never happen because it's impossible\u2014but he did something I would've wished I could have done. In fact, I\u2019m going to tell you.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:01:00):\r\n\r\nA Super Bowl ring? Do you have a Super Bowl ring?\r\n\r\nRay: I wish!\r\n\r\nDave (00:01:02):\r\n\r\nI'm getting one of those this year; no. He, in 1968,\u2014\r\n\r\n Ray: \u2014\u201966.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014'66, saw\u2014[strumming guitar and singing] \u201cOh, yeah, I\u2019ll tell you something\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:01:21):\r\n\r\nOh, yeah, baby.\r\n\r\nDave: [singing]\u2014\u201cI want to hold your hand. I want to hold your hand. I want to hold your hand.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay: Oh, man.\r\n\r\nDave (00:01:33):\r\n\r\nYou saw the Beatles! Where? LA Dodger\u2019s Stadium. \r\n\r\nRay: LA Dodger\u2019s Stadium in LA, yeah. \r\n\r\nAnn: What?! You went to the concert?\r\n\r\nRay (00:01:42):\r\n\r\nYes, I heard the Beatles live. \r\n\r\nDave: Well, go ahead and tell them the truth. You didn't hear them; you heard a bunch of girls screaming.\r\n\r\nRay (00:01:45):\r\n\r\nOkay, that's true. It really was fun to see them, the real deal right there. But the sound system\u2014it was 1966\u2014and it was just terrible quality.\r\n\r\nDave (00:01:57):\r\n\r\n\u2014the box amps. The Beatles even said, \u201cWe couldn't hear ourselves.\u201d It was just crazy. And that was their next-to-last ever concert.\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:04):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:05):\r\n\r\nI didn't know that.\r\n\r\nDave (00:02:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, they had one more.\r\n\r\nRay: They flew from there; the next day, they flew to San Francisco; and they quit touring. It was 20,000 screaming teenage girls.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:15):\r\n\r\nAnd did you love The Beatles?\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:16):\r\n\r\nOh, yeah. Are you kidding?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:17):\r\n\r\nWho didn\u2019t, back then, right?\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:19):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (00:02:20):\r\n\r\nWell, take us back. You were married right around then, right?\r\n\r\nJani (00:02:23):\r\n\r\nA few years later.\r\n\r\nDave (00:02:24):\r\n\r\nOkay, \u201968?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:24):\r\n\r\nBut you met when? \r\n\r\nJani: \u201868\u2014September 12th, 1968, about\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:31):\r\n\r\n\u20145:00 pm. I was minding my own business. I was just walking from the dorm to the dining hall.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:36):\r\n\r\n\u2014Wheaton College. \r\n\r\nRay: Yes.\r\n\r\nJani (00:02:39):\r\n\r\nI wasn\u2019t minding my own business.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:39):\r\n\r\nOkay.\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:40):\r\n\r\nThe dining hall opened at 5; it was like five minutes to 5. I was hungry, so I was on my way. I saw over to my left, about 50 feet away, a guy I had met a few days before. He was also on the football team; he was a freshman. I just thought, \u201cI'll say, \u2018Hi,\u2019 on my way.\u201d I walk over; and little do I realize\u2014here is this gorgeous new student on campus. Oh, my goodness.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:03:01):\r\n\r\nShe's a freshman.\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:02):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:03:02):\r\n\r\nAnd you're a\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:03):\r\n\r\n\u2014sophomore. Oh, big sophomore. And oh, my goodness, I just melted. \r\n\r\nDave (00:03:10):\r\n\r\nJani, did you sort of plant yourself over there? Were you trying to\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:03:13):\r\n\r\nMe?\u2014plant myself so I could meet Buddy Ortlund, the football player? \r\n\r\nAnn: Was that his nickname?\u2014Buddy.\r\n\r\nJani: Buddy, yes. He was my roommate's pastor's son in her growing-up years. I had heard all about him and his family; I really wanted to meet him. I almost tripped him on his way to the dining room.\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:34):\r\n\r\nJani was from Minnesota. It was almost\u2014to this California boy\u2014was almost like the mythical far northern land. Oh, my goodness, walking out of that northern mist, here comes this amazing woman.\r\n\r\nJani (00:03:48):\r\n\r\nI had never seen an ocean before; so to meet someone from California, who loved the Lord, and was so cute to boot!\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:58):\r\n\r\nHere's the truth of it. A couple weeks later, I was in a conversation with another freshman guy. I don't know how he knew this, but he had heard through the grapevine that a guy had taken Jani out and tried to put a move on her. She shut him down. I thought, \u201cNo, wait a minute. We're talking about an absolutely gorgeous woman with Christian standards? I am taking her out!\u201d So that was what did it; I called her up, and we just began to fall crazy in love.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:04:29):\r\n\r\nDid you date all through college? \r\n\r\nJani: Yes. \r\n\r\nAnn: And then, when did you get married? \r\n\r\nJani (00:04:34):\r\n\r\nThe week I graduated. He wouldn't marry me until I graduated, so December 18, 1971. I went through summer school to graduate early.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:04:43):\r\n\r\nSo give us a little bit of your history in terms of: How many kids?  How long have you been married now? We can add it up, but you can just tell us.\r\n\r\nJani (00:04:53):\r\n\r\nIt will be 54 years this December we've been married. We have four children; and all married, loving Jesus. Oh, we thank the Lord for that; don't we, darling?\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:04):\r\n\r\n\u201415 grandchildren.\r\n\r\nJani (00:05:05):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:06):\r\n\r\nWe're so grateful; we just feel immeasurably rich. We didn't cook this up. We didn't have a whiteboard and markers; we didn't mastermind this.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:05:17):\r\n\r\nGod's grace.\r\n\r\nRay: God\u2019s grace.\r\n\r\nJani: \u201cNot to us, O LORD; not to us, but to Your name be glory\u201d (Psalm 115).\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:24):\r\n\r\nWell, you know what it's like. You just live each day, and God is the One masterminding the better future we really long for. If we were to draw the plan, it would be inferior to what God gives.\r\n\r\nDave (00:05:39):\r\n\r\nI mean, we sit here; and we hear the story. We think, \u201cOh, it must have been pretty easy, and no struggles.\u201d Were there struggles?\r\n\r\nJani (00:05:45):\r\n\r\nHow long do we have? Oh, my goodness. Do you want to hear about our first fight or our argument yesterday? \r\n\r\nAnn: Let me ask you\u2014because we say this\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (00:05:55):\r\n\r\nI want to hear about the argument yesterday.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:05:57):\r\n\r\nDid you have an argument yesterday?\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:59):\r\n\r\nWell, I wouldn't call it an argument. It was an interesting discussion. \r\n\r\nDave: It doesn't matter what you think.\r\n\r\nJani (00:06:03):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nRay (00:06:03):\r\n\r\nI said to Jani\u2014we were in the Orlando airport\u2014I'm just being me, and I'm annoying her. I can tell that I'm annoying her. I said to her, \u201cHoney, I really like it when you chew me out, because then I feel more comfortable. I feel like you're free to tell me what you really think and feel.\u201d So it was\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (00:06:26):\r\n\r\nDid you chew him out pretty good? \r\n\r\nJani (00:06:28):\r\n\r\nWell, what's your definition of \u201cpretty good,\u201d Dave? I don't think so. \r\n\r\nWe laugh a lot more now in our marriage. \r\n\r\nAnn: We do too. \r\n\r\nJani: Isn't it wonderful? \r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (00:06:40):\r\n\r\nNow why do you think that is? \u2014\"\u2026 a lot more now\u2026\u201d\u2014what happened?\r\n\r\nJani (00:06:44):\r\n\r\nBefore, I was worried that he would never get me; and I would have to fight to be understood and accepted. But through the years, he has proven over and over: \u201cJani, we're going to make this a win-win.\u201d He has done that. So now I can just laugh when he annoys me; tell him.\r\n\r\nRay (00:07:12):\r\n\r\nAnd by now we know we're going to get through the crisis du jour, not because we're so great at it, but because the Lord is present. Underneath are the everlasting arms. We don't always feel that, but we can know that. And even if we forget it\u2014still, underneath, are the everlasting arms\u2014He's not just keeping our faith alive; He's keeping our laughter bubbling as well.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:07:45):\r\n\r\nThat's sweet, isn't it?\r\n\r\nRay (00:07:46):\r\n\r\nYeah, it is.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:07:47):\r\n\r\nLet me ask you: \u201cWhen you got married, did you think you would struggle the way you did?\u201d Because every single couple struggles; there's not a couple living that hasn't gone through some real valleys, whether in life or marriage. Dave and I thought, because we were so in love and because we love Jesus so much, we would not struggle. What did you think?\r\n\r\nDave (00:08:10):\r\n\r\nAnd we did. \r\n\r\nAnn (00:08:11):\r\n\r\nWe did so much.\r\n\r\nDave (00:08:12):\r\n\r\n\u2014immediately.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:08:13):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nDave (00:08:13):\r\n\r\nWe sort of thought: \u201cThe past is buried. It's the old creation; we're new in Christ\u2014\r\n\r\n2 Corinthians 5\u2014which is all true. We thought that meant: \u201cOh, we won't struggle. We love Jesus; we love each other, going into ministry.\u201d And then, we struggled; and we were surprised. \r\n\r\nWas that your story\u2014or no?\u2014you knew you were going to struggle.\r\n\r\nRay (00:08:35):\r\n\r\nOkay, here's my theory on this. Let me try this out on you, honey; tell me what you think.\r\n\r\nJani (00:08:38):\r\n\r\nFirst time on\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:08:40):\r\n\r\nYeah, okay. I think God gives us, as a gift, this crazy euphoria we call romance. Because if we were in our right minds, we would never make the total commitment of marriage. I mean, you're committing, in advance, to what you can't foresee. That's crazy.\r\n\r\nDave (00:09:02):\r\n\r\nMaking a promise\/covenant.\r\n\r\nRay (00:09:04):\r\n\r\nYes. I think God says, \u201cWell, if they were sensible at all, they would never make a commitment. So I'm going to sort of propel them into it.\u201d He sprinkles His pixie dust on us, and we enter into temporary insanity; do the deal. And then, it sort of wears off, with little spikes along the way. But without that surge of crazy, wonderful romance, we might not take the risk. \r\n\r\nI believe that taking the risk of total love, it's not just\u2014okay, you have to be a Christian to be crazy enough to believe this\u2014if Ephesians 5 is telling us the truth about the reality of Christ and the church in romantic love, we've parachuted into a universe where ultimate reality is romance. We're receiving, as married couples, we're receiving the privilege of sort of replicating it on a small scale imperfectly; but really, in our own experience, so that people who will never darken the door of a church to hear the gospel can see the gospel just because we're married.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:10:29):\r\n\r\nExactly.\r\n\r\nRay (00:10:30):\r\n\r\nThat's crazy.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:10:31):\r\n\r\nWhen you love someone, and see all of their flaws, but continue to love them unconditionally; that's the gospel.\r\n\r\nRay (00:10:37):\r\n\r\nIt is.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:10:40):\r\n\r\nDid you know that 40 percent of our ministry support comes in these final weeks of the year? Your gift, in this season, helps us continue sharing the hope of the gospel with families everywhere.\r\n\r\nDave (00:10:53):\r\n\r\nSo come be a part of the team that helps make this ministry possible. How can you do it? You can give at FamilyLifeToday.com, or give us a call at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \r\n\r\nOkay, let's go back to the show. Okay, let's go back to the conversation. \r\n\r\nAnn: [singing] \u201cLet's go back to it.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: Please keep that in.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:11:09):\r\n\r\nWe're talking today about your book, To the Tenth Generation. What is that about? What a good title. Explain everything.\r\n\r\nRay (00:11:25):\r\n\r\nWell, the subtitle\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:11:27):\r\n\r\n\u2014God's Heart for Your Family, Far into the Future. It's a new concept that the Lord gave us\u2014what?\u2014five\/six years ago as the Lord\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:11:39):\r\n\r\nYeah, the Lord gave it to you, honey.\r\n\r\nJani (00:11:41):\r\n\r\nI was sitting, just very innocently reading my Bible; I know this has happened to you and to our listeners. I read through the Bible generally once a year.\r\n\r\nAnn: So do I.\r\n\r\nJani: I was in Deuteronomy 23 of all places.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:11:58):\r\n\r\nReally?!\r\n\r\nJani (00:11:59):\r\n\r\nYes! Deuteronomy 23. I came to the first few verses, 2 and 3, I think they were, where God says, \u201cTell those people groups\u201d\u2014I think it's the Ammonites and the Edomites\u2014\"that they're going to be excluded from My presence, to the tenth generation, because\u201d\u2014and He explained why. \r\n\r\nI stopped, and thought, \u201cWait a minute, that doesn't seem fair!\u201d That question arose in my heart: \u201cLord, I don't get this. This is not what makes sense to me.\u201d I found myself\u2014I'm embarrassed to admit this\u2014judging God's ways, saying, \u201cHow could You?\u2014to the tenth generation?\u201d I prayed about it; I thought about it. I brought it to Ray; we started talking about it. We began thinking about who God really is, not what I make Him out to be by reading one or two verses.\r\n\r\n(00:13:07):\r\n\r\nWe began thinking, throughout all of Scripture\u2014God's bias toward blessing; God's bias toward welcome; God's bias towards receiving us supremely\u2014and His Son; we see it there. I thought, \u201cWell, I've had this question mark. Now, from Deuteronomy 23 on, I'm going to start looking for verses that talk about God's blessing the generations; they're everywhere! I wish we had time to go through all of them. I had just read a few days before that time in Deuteronomy 23, in Deuteronomy 7, where He talks about being the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations.\r\n\r\nRay (00:14:12):\r\n\r\nAmazing.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:14:12):\r\n\r\nThat is amazing.\r\n\r\nJani: \u2014a thousand generations. Over, and over, and over again, if you look through my Bible, you'd see the little symbol 10th on page, after page, after page where God has promised: \u201cI want to use your precious family to further My redemptive plan.\u201d It's: \u201cYour family is crucial in My plan to redeem My world; watch Me.\u201d That's what this book is about. What would you add, hon?\r\n\r\nRay (00:14:47):\r\n\r\nWell, as we thought about some of those Old Testament passages through a gospel lens, exactly what Jani was saying: \u201cIf God had His reasons for excluding certain people\u2014people groups and families to the tenth generation\u2014how much more, in Christ, does He long to bless families to the tenth generation and beyond?\u201d So like you guys, when we got married, we weren't thinking far into the future. We just\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:15:22):\r\n\r\n\u2014the next day.\r\n\r\nRay (00:15:23):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's right. But what we've come to realize is this: \u201cGod has an intergenerational plan for our family.\u201d Here's why that matters: in the United States of America right now, there's a lot of fear; there's a lot of anger, a lot of anxiety, a lot of uncertainty. But God has put covenant promises on His churches and on Christian families as He has not put covenant promises on nations, corporations, sports teams, and so forth. Churches and Christian homes are receiving promises from above that will last: they're durable; they're industrial strength; they\u2019re military grade.\r\n\r\n(00:16:13):\r\n\r\nThese promises of God are going to get us through these hard times. \r\n\r\nJani and I thought it through; we did the math: December 18, 1971; just two of us. We have four kids; they get married. Two become eight in one generational shift. Now those eight have now produced fifteen grandchildren\u2014so two, eight, fifteen\u2014you see where this is going, exponentially. At this point, it starts becoming hypothetical but not implausible. One of those grandchildren is already married, so they're going to have babies. Now, at present trends, our family, in ten generations is going to be 55,000 people.\r\n\r\nDave (00:17:06):\r\n\r\nIs that right?\r\n\r\nRay (00:17:07):\r\n\r\nYes!\r\n\r\nJani (00:17:08):\r\n\r\nAnd it's all our fault. The hope and dream of this book is that families will catch the vision that they really matter to the Lord and that what they're doing today can matter far out into the future.\r\n\r\nRay (00:17:26):\r\n\r\nYes. We\u2019re trivialized by our world every day; we're told in so many ways: \u201cYou don't matter. You might matter as part of a voting block; you might matter as part of a market niche, but you actually don't matter; and your family is only, at best, useful.\u201d\r\n\r\nJani (00:17:45):\r\n\r\nAnd we believe that; we take that in as families. We think, \u201cOh, my family's so boring. It's just a daily routine: get up; feed the kids; do the laundry; go to work.\u201d We don't see the magnificence of the Lord in it. He promises\u2014is it in Exodus 20?\u2014that \u201cEverywhere I cause My name to be remembered, I will come and bless.\u201d\r\n\r\n(00:18:10):\r\n\r\nHis blessing is on the mundane, the boring. Let's not be Christians\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:18:15):\r\n\r\n\u2014the daily, the ordinary\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:18:15):\r\n\r\n\u2014who settle for less than what God has envisioned: His mighty purposes for our families.\r\n\r\nRay (00:18:22):\r\n\r\nWhat we've come to realize is equally true of you and every Christian dad and mom listening. We have our family right now; we also have a future family. We can love our future family right now. We can't control the future, but we can invest in the future. We can give our hearts, our prayers and our devotion right now such that dominoes are going to fall over, far into the future. We're way more significant than we've ever realized. Anyway, this landed on us. It changed how we saw our family and how we treat them.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:19:00):\r\n\r\nYou guys, no wonder there's such a spiritual warfare\u2014a battle going on over the family\u2014because of this impact that we can have on the entire world.\r\n\r\nRay (00:19:11):\r\n\r\nThat's a good point.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:19:12):\r\n\r\nFifty-five thousand people is a city.\r\n\r\nRay (00:19:14):\r\n\r\nSarasota, Florida.\r\n\r\nDave: Yeah, it's a big city.\r\n\r\nJani (00:19:18):\r\n\r\nSo let's be Christian leaders who encourage our fellow Christians that God is bigger than our fear of the future. I can sit here in this chair and be so scared about everything; but God has promised\u2014where?\u2014in Acts 2:39: \u201cFor the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off.\u201d He's promised me already that, if I look to Him, it will have an impact on my children, my great-grandchildren, far into the future for all those who are far off. How big is our God? Isn't that wonderful? We don't need to be scared!\r\n\r\nDave (00:20:03):\r\n\r\nThat's your quote in the second chapter: \u201cHow Big God Is Matters More than How Frightening the Future Is.\u201d I've always said: \u201cThe size of your God is more important than the size of your faith.\u201d Answer this: \u201cHow does a normal Christian get a bigger God? How do we grow in the size of our God?\u201d What would you say?\r\n\r\nRay (00:20:25):\r\n\r\nWell, one thing is to just dare: dare to believe the promises of the Bible. They were paid for, in advance, in full by Christ at His cross. Every bill we run up from then on, God pays it. Let's believe in grace upon grace\u2014John, Chapter 1, verse 16. I love the way Martin Luther taught us how to fight back against Satan's lies; Luther said this from his commentary on Galatians\u2014he said, \u201cWhen the devil comes to us, and says to us, \u2018You are so evil; you're going to be damned,\u2019 we should reply: \u2018Precisely, because you say I am so evil, I will be justified and saved.\u2019 Satan will reply, \u2018No, you will end up damned.\u2019 We will say, \u2018No, for Christ died for my sins. My sins are on His shoulders, not on mine. So Satan, when you tell me how sinful I am, you don't dishearten me at all. In fact, you comfort me.\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nWhen we think we're so\u2014we're failures; we're inadequate; we're disqualified; \u201cI had my chance, but I blew it; God's finished with me,\u201d\u2014now, those are the very people whom God loves, embraces, includes. If we think, \u201cGod could never use me,\u201d we're ready for God to use us.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:21:58):\r\n\r\nThat's such a good reminder.\r\n\r\nJani (00:21:59):\r\n\r\nI would add and emphasize what you've been saying, honey, this way: \u201cHow do we increase our faith?\u201d We go to His Word; we listen to Him.\r\n\r\n(00:22:10):\r\n\r\nAnd we look for those promises that Ray has mentioned, and that we've been sharing; and we pray them: \u201cLord, You said this. Now make it happen today in my life and in my future\u2014in my children's life\u2014over and over and into the tenth generation.\u201d We have several of those promises. \r\n\r\nWe hope your listeners might pick it up and look through it and be encouraged for how God loves the generations. One of my favorite verses is from Isaiah 65, verse 23, says: \u201cThey shall not labor in vain.\u201d Don't you love that word, Ann?\u2014the laboring of a woman\u2014\u201cThey shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord and their descendants with them.\u201d \u201cIt's not just you, Jani; I'm looking at your grandchildren and your great-great grandchildren. Hold fast to Me; it matters, today, for them.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:23:17):\r\n\r\nOne of my favorites is in Luke's Gospel, Chapter 1. Mary says in the Magnificat, and in this wonderful prayer, that she declares when she knows that our Savior, our Messiah is coming through her, she looks\u2014using Old Testament language\u2014she just rejoices in the ways of God\/the strategies of God; how He rolls. \u201cWhat's going on here?\u201d She says in verse 50 of Luke 1: \u201cGod's mercy is for those who fear Him from generation to generation.\u201d In other words, God's not making this up as He goes. He's not, right now, nervously working on Plan B; He's got His plan. Everything is going His way, and His plan includes intergenerational blessing for those who fear Him. \r\n\r\nWhat then does it mean for Jani and me\u2014for you guys\u2014to fear the Lord? Well, my mind goes back to Genesis, Chapter 22, where Abraham puts his son down before God and surrenders his son to the Lord. And the Lord says, \u201cNow I know that you fear Me.\u201d Fear is reverent openness to God. When Jani and I\u2014when you guys, every Christian dad and mom listening\u2014when we just bow down before the Lord, and say, \u201cI'm not good at this, but I offer myself to You. I offer my family to You. I bow down; I surrender now. Be glorified in us,\u201d God says, \u201cNow, that's what I'm talking about.\u201d Blessing kicks in. That's all we have to do guys; we don't have to deserve His grace.\r\n\r\n(00:25:02):\r\n\r\nWe don't have to qualify; we don't have to keep earning it. Our obedience has no purchasing power; we just yield to Him, and He will make it happen.\r\n\r\nJani (00:25:13):\r\n\r\nJust say, \u201cYes.\u201d Just say, \u201cYes,\u201d to Him. That's what our children's book that accompanies this teaches\/helps parents to teach their children.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:25:24):\r\n\r\nAnd what's the title of your children's book?\r\n\r\nJani (00:25:26):\r\n\r\nYour Family Is God's Plan:\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:25:29):\r\n\r\nI love that.\r\n\r\nJani (00:25:29):\r\n\r\n\u2014His Mercy from Generation to Generation is based on Luke 1:50, teaching your child to say, \u201cYes.\u201d When you say, \u201cYes,\u201d to God, no matter how hard it is, you can trust Him.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:25:42):\r\n\r\nI think that, in a nutshell, is everything; because we make it so complicated: \u201cI need to do this,\u201d \u201cI need to go here,\u201d \u201cI need it.\u201d What it really is\u2014and Dave and I did this\u2014I bet you guys did this, too: on our honeymoon night, we knelt at the foot of the bed before we got in the bed, and we prayed that prayer: \u201cGod, we pray\/we give You our marriage. We surrender our lives, our future. And we pray that You would give us a marriage, not a good marriage, but a great marriage that would impact the world for Christ.\u201d \r\n\r\nIn other words, all it did is: \u201cWe give You our lives, God. We don't know what we're doing. We have no idea what's ahead, but we surrender.\u201d That's the prayer for a family. \r\n\r\nThat's it; that's it, you guys. It's the best, the biggest. Jesus is like, \u201cOkay, I got you. Wait until you see the journey\u201d; and it's not easy, but it\u2019s good.\r\n\r\nRay (00:26:35):\r\n\r\nNo, we wouldn't want it to be easy.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:26:38):\r\n\r\nI would, Ray; I would like it to be so. We have a different opinion about that!\r\n\r\nRay (00:26:44):\r\n\r\nI remember reading about Bill and Vonette Bright.\r\n\r\nJani (00:26:47):\r\n\r\nYes!\r\n\r\nRay (00:26:48):\r\n\r\nHe was in the candy business, wasn't he? They came to a threshold in their life together when they took out a piece of paper, as I understand it, and literally signed themselves over to the Lord.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:27:02):\r\n\r\n\u2014a contract. \r\n\r\nRay (00:27:04):\r\n\r\nYeah; every listening dad and mom: \u201cWhat a great idea. Literally, take out a piece of paper and write out a commitment to the Lord.\u201d \r\n\r\nI remember a day in 1988 when I was at a very low point. I was a pastor in Oregon. I was sincere but clueless.\r\n\r\nDave: Been there.\r\n\r\nRay: I wasn't doing a very good job. It was not going well, but I didn't know what else to do. I took out my typewriter, and I typed out the total surrender as best I could articulate it. It wasn't fancy, but I just handed myself over to the Lord. I signed it; I dated it. I came to realize, later, that was a turning point. I didn't orchestrate how things would turn around and get better; I did not do that. All I could do is give the Lord my need. We all deeply believe\u2014the four of us are living proof\u2014God's faithfulness, over the long-term, for people who really don't deserve it.  I love that.\r\n\r\nDave (00:28:17):\r\n\r\nI didn't think of it at the moment; but when I surrendered\u2014when I became a Christian, literally, I just sort of caught my girlfriend\u2014it wasn\u2019t Ann\u2014with another guy. So there was this betrayal that was going on that I sensed. I literally found out it was true. And it was the last straw for me; I was like, \u201cI've been holding onto this; been holding onto my football future\u201d\u2014and just having a second knee surgery\u2014and I'm like, \u201cI'm done. I'm done trying to live my way and get what I want.\u201d It was that moment I was broken. I get on my knees, in my childhood bedroom, and I just said just what you did. I said, \u201cI'm done. I'm not living for me anymore. I repent of my sin. I'm a broken sinner, and I need forgiveness.\u201d\r\n\r\n(00:29:07):\r\n\r\nI knew the gospel\u2014I heard it enough times in the last year\u2014and I just said right there; I said, \u201cI'll go and do and be anything You want me to be. My life is now Yours, whatever You want.\u201d \r\n\r\nI look back in that moment; I didn't feel this. Now, I look back, sort of what you were saying, Ray, it's almost like heaven is looking down. I've said this, sometimes in a sermon, I think Jesus is up there, looking down at me, like this; and I go\u2014I know this isn't theologically accurate, but just go with me here\u2014it's like He looks down at me, and He sees me on my knees. He goes, \u201cHey, Wilson, you serious? You really serious?\u201d And I'm like, \u201cYeah, I'm serious.\u201d He goes, \u201cAlright, you won't believe what I got for you! This is so different than you thought it was, but I'm going to just take you on the journey of your life.\u201d And again, that doesn't mean easy.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:29:50):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nDave (00:29:50):\r\n\r\nI mean difficulties and trials were in the future, but it means: \u201cYou're going to live the life I've created you to live.\u201d Not even thinking, in that moment, that decision affected this; and now, a legacy of Wilsons and grandkids. That was not in my mind there, but it was in God's.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:30:09):\r\n\r\nWhat's crazy is the same night that he did that, I was working a factory job, earning college money to go to school in the summer. The same night I was on an assembly line, shooting screws into dishwasher doors, praying the same prayer: \u201cGod, I feel like I've just been trying to\u2014I'm on the fence\u2014I'm living both sides, the world and for You, I'm done doing that. I give my life to You; I surrender everything. I'll go\u201d\u2014same words\u2014\"I'll go anywhere; I'll do anything. \r\n\r\nRay (00:30:38):\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s amazing.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:30:39):\r\n\r\n\u201cFor the rest of my life, I'm going to follow You.\u201d At the end of my prayer, I said, \u201cAnd God,\u201d\u2014I was dating this other guy\u2014\u201cit seems like that Dave Wilson guy\u201d\u2014we are from the same hometown\u2014\u201cit seems like he is passionate about You. Maybe he could find me somebody to disciple me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:30:57):\r\n\r\nI think she thought I was cute; she wanted to date me.\r\n\r\nAnn: He was very cute!\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:03):\r\n\r\nYou know what I love about this? Every listener who is\u2014this just works for everybody. \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes!\r\n\r\nRay: You don't have to have a PhD.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:31:14):\r\n\r\nDoesn't matter what you\u2019ve done.\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:15):\r\n\r\nYou don't need to be spiritually gigantic. If it were just\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:31:19):\r\n\r\n\u2014His mercy; we've been talking about His mercy. It\u2019s for those who fear Him.\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:21):\r\n\r\nOkay, here's the story from me. I was totally falling in love with Jani, and I called up to ask her out. This was in April, 1969; and she'd already accepted a date with another guy.\r\n\r\nJani (00:31:37):\r\n\r\nGetting jealous enough to commit.\r\n\r\nAnn: Smart!\r\n\r\nDave (00:31:39):\r\n\r\nYou\u2019re playing hard to get. I get it. \r\n\r\nRay: And I thought, \u201cWhat?! This is not good. I need to ask Jani to go steady with me because\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:31:48):\r\n\r\nDo your listeners know what going steady means?\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:50):\r\n\r\nDoes that even work anymore?\r\n\r\nAnn: Now they do.\r\n\r\nDave (00:31:53):\r\n\r\n It\u2019s a thing on Facebook.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:31:53):\r\n\r\nWe know!\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:55):\r\n\r\nTalk about not being theologically sophisticated. I decide: \u201cI'm going to play Bible roulette here. I'm going to just start reading the Bible, because I need guidance from God. I really want to ask her to go study with me, but I don't want to cook this up on my own; because I really want God to be part of this. I'm just going to read the Bible until a verse leaps off the page at me; and then, I'll know what God's answer is.\u201d \r\n\r\nI'm turning to the book of Leviticus.\r\n\r\nDave (00:32:24):\r\n\r\nHey listeners, by the way, this isn't a great way to read the Bible.\r\n\r\nRay (00:32:26):\r\n\r\nNo, no; I don\u2019t.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:32:29):\r\n\r\nLeviticus; you turned to Leviticus? \r\n\r\nRay: Well, I was on my way there; because I was thinking, \u201cThat's the most unhelpful book. So when I get the answer, it will really work.\u201d Then I'm thinking, \u201cNo, Ecclesiastes is even more weird\u201d; so I'm turning to Ecclesiastes. I start reading in Chapter 1, verse 1, having no idea how incredibly relevant Ecclesiastes is. \r\n\r\nDave: Oh, what a book.\r\n\r\nRay (00:32:50):\r\n\r\nI come to Chapter 11, and this is what I read: \u201c Rejoice, oh, young man in your youth and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. Walk in the ways of your heart in the sight of your eyes.\u201d I thought, \u201cWhat? God\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014\u201c\u2026the sight of my eyes?\u201d \r\n\r\nRay: \u2014\"is affirming?\u201d God is saying, \u201cYou like her, don't you? So ask her. I'm not promising she'll say, \u2018Yes\u2019; but treat her right because she belongs to Me. But go ahead and ask her, and I will bless you.\u201d\r\n\r\nJani (00:33:32):\r\n\r\nAnd he did; and I said, \u201cYes.\u201d And here we are, 54 years later. \r\n\r\nDave: You said, \u201cNo,\u201d to that other guy? \r\n\r\nJani: Well, I went out with him; but never again.\r\n\r\nRay (00:33:43):\r\n\r\nYeah; so I called her back; asked her out for the next weekend. She said, \u201cYes.\u201d But the point is\u2014here we are; we\u2019re dopey teenagers\u2014and God loves dopey teenagers. God loves parents who feel inadequate, and exhausted, and worried. God loves\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:34:04):\r\n\r\n\u2014worried grandparents, who are anxious for their young ones.\r\n\r\nRay (00:34:09):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's right. And God is with us.\r\n\r\nLuke (00:34:13):\r\n\r\nHi friends, we're Luke and Kristina Middendorf. I serve as the President of FamilyLife, and we're so glad you're joining us for FamilyLife Today. Did you know that 40 percent of our ministry support comes in at the end of the year? That's why your gift right now makes such a difference.\r\n\r\nKristina (00:34:29):\r\n\r\nAnd this month, every donation you give is matched, dollar for dollar. Your generosity helps families experience the gospel and see God's faithfulness in their story. You can give at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 800-FL-TODAY.\r\n\r\nLuke (00:34:48):\r\n\r\nWe're so grateful for you. Now, let's get back to the conversation.\r\n\r\nDave (00:34:54):\r\n\r\nNow, what do you say to the couple who\u2019s listening\u2014that I'm guessing right now; I was thinking\u2014\u201cYeah, I listen to the Wilsons and the Ortlunds. Their life has been pretty marvelous and special, and they're blessed. God answered their prayer, but we are struggling. \r\n\r\n(00:35:08):\r\n\r\nWe have kids who have walked away from the faith. My husband's walked\u2026\u201d\u2014whatever their struggle is. I know there's people watching or listening; and they're like, \u201cWe're not blessed like these two couples; they have a special blessing. They're in ministry; they're pastors.\u201d You know what I'm saying? I know a lot of people think that our blessing is uniquely better than theirs. Even hearing our stories, like, \u201cLook at God was in it, but He's not with us.\u201d You just said He's with them\u2014and we know He is\u2014but what would you say to that couple who right now is struggling to believe in\u2014  \r\n\r\nAnn (00:35:39):\r\n\r\nThey\u2019re just wanting to give up.\r\n\r\nDave (00:35:39):\r\n\r\n\u2014their life is charmed like ours.\r\n\r\nRay (00:35:44):\r\n\r\nWe were at the low point of our life in 2007. We had the privilege of spending a day with David Paulison, who was a biblical counselor back in Philadelphia.\r\n\r\nDave (00:35:57):\r\n\r\nYeah, I know the name. \r\n\r\nJani (00:35:59):\r\n\r\nHe\u2019s with the Lord now.\r\n\r\nRay (00:36:01):\r\n\r\nAnd he was so wise and so helpful. He said, \u201cOkay, you guys are going through a horrible season in life; and this is going to take a while. So here's what I recommend: why don't you ask the Lord for a verse of Scripture? Ask the Lord for a promise and encouragement. And when the Lord gives it to you, latch onto it; wallpaper your reality with that promise. However dark the nighttime sky might be, you can look up and see that north star; get your bearings; keep going.\u201d Oh, that was so helpful. \r\n\r\nAbout two weeks later, Jani is sitting there, reading 1 Peter, Chapter 5. She reads verse 10; she says, \u201cRay, listen to this!\u201d She reads this verse: \u201cAfter you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.\u201d\r\n\r\nJani (00:37:15):\r\n\r\nWe claimed that promise because of David's kind counsel to us. We wrote it out: put it on our mirror where we brush our teeth; and on our refrigerator door; in the car. We memorized it and asked the Lord: \u201cThis is Your promise to us. We know You will confirm it eventually; maybe, in our lifetime\u201d; and He has. \r\n\r\nRay (00:37:41):\r\n\r\nYes, just one step after another from then on.\r\n\r\nJani (00:37:44):\r\n\r\nWe would encourage people who feel like failures to go to the Word again and look for a promise for them, and hold God to it.\r\n\r\nDave (00:37:56):\r\n\r\n\u201cWallpaper your reality with it.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: What a phrase.\r\n\r\nDave: What a phrase!\r\n\r\nRay (00:38:02):\r\n\r\nIt wasn't a quick fix.\r\n\r\nJani (00:38:03):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nRay (00:38:04):\r\n\r\nWe had a lot of things to work through, but that verse gave us hope. Hope is what gets us through anything.\r\n\r\nJani (00:38:12):\r\n\r\nWe still will say, \u201cOh, that's a 1 Peter 5:10 experience.\u201d We say that about today, being with you, whom we respect so much. \r\n\r\nI might add here about those who feel like they're failures. We do write about that in our book To the Tenth\u2026 Jesus died for failures; He didn't die for successes. Those who are successful don't need Him\u2014it's the weak\u2014that's when He enters in. It's the weak who receive His power, and His strength, and His grace. Where you feel you're failing, that's where Jesus welcomes you most. He doesn't want to just pat you on the back, and say, \u201cHey, way to go. You don't need Me; go on!\u201d He loves it when we come to Him with our failures, and say, \u201cThis is hopeless. There's nothing I can do. Only You can save this situation.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:39:15):\r\n\r\nDo you remember your failure or your struggle\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:39:19):\r\n\r\nOh, yes.\r\n\r\nDave (00:39:19):\r\n\r\n\u2014that put you in that counselor's chair? \r\n\r\nJani (00:39:22):\r\n\r\nWe do.\r\n\r\nRay (00:39:22):\r\n\r\nYeah, it was a ministry catastrophe. I wondered if I had a future in ministry. It wasn't just less blessing than normal; the bottom fell out, and in a particularly humiliating way. I was psychologically incapable of experiencing what the English word, \u201cencouragement,\u201d is talking about. I was not able to trust the Lord. Jani was the one\u2014I said, \u201cSweetheart, let's go on your faith for a while until I can get back on my feet,\u201d\u2014my precious warrior wife got me through that.\r\n\r\nJani (00:40:06):\r\n\r\nBecause I knew what Ray was hearing from a few men in particular that was not true.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:40:14):\r\n\r\nJani, did it make you mad?\r\n\r\nJani (00:40:15):\r\n\r\nOh, I was so angry.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:40:15):\r\n\r\nI was going to say\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:40:17):\r\n\r\nI was so angry, because it was slanderous. It was totally against the gospel. In the middle of it all, Ray's beloved father passed away. And Ray's dad was his hero, my hero. It was just awful.\r\n\r\nRay (00:40:38):\r\n\r\nOn my dad's dying day, we were over in Ireland. He was at the hospital, of course, there in California. The family gathered around his bedside. They sang hymns; they read Scripture. He gave a word of patriarchal blessing to each member of the family before he died. And when we got back, I asked my sister, \u201cWhat did Dad\/what was his word to me?\u201d And dad said to them, \u201cTell Bud ministry isn't everything; Jesus is.\u201d\r\n\r\n(00:41:16):\r\n\r\nI want to say that to all our listeners: \u201cWhatever it is that you feel like you're losing or have lost\u2014ministry really matters, that's why we care; family matters; jobs matter; everything about us matters in the sight of God\u2014but only Jesus is our salvation. And when Jesus is our salvation, other things in life tend, over time, to fall into place. There's hope; there's hope.\u201d I didn't engineer that; I didn't deserve that; I didn't mastermind it. I just received it. \r\n\r\nI would just say to our listeners, who are deeply disheartened and brokenhearted: \u201cWell 1, I wish I could just put my arm around you right now; because you\u2019re my people. Secondly, God is with you. He is your everything. Move all your chips over onto His square.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:42:33):\r\n\r\nI like that.\r\n\r\nRay (00:42:33):\r\n\r\nYeah. Say, \u201cLord, You're my future; You're my hope. I'm going to hang onto You for dear life. I'm going to wallpaper my reality with Your promises. I'm just going to believe\u2014I'm going to defiantly believe\u2014You're going to get me through this.\u201d And He will.\r\n\r\nJani (00:42:55):\r\n\r\nSomething that's helped me in the midst of times when I felt like an utter failure is to ask myself, \u201cWhy does that failure matter so much to me?\u201d There's something about it: part of it is I want my kids in heaven; I want my grandchildren in heaven. I want to run their lives in a way that looks good to me.\r\n\r\n(00:43:21):\r\n\r\nWhen I've gone through hard times in my life, I keep coming back to a verse that God gave me in Psalm 62. Psalm 62:1: \u201cMy soul finds rest in God\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014\"alone.\u201d \r\n\r\nJani: \u2014\"alone.\u201d You know it. And so when I'm struggling with a fear of failure\u2014I'll feel that after today, when I go home and think: \u201cOh, why didn't I say that?\u201d or \u201cWhy did I say that?\u201d\u2014I have to ask myself, \u201cWhat is my soul finding her rest in? Is it being successful on the radio program? Is it\u2026\u201d\u2014whatever it is\u2014\u201cMy soul finds rest in my children following the Lord,\u201d or \u201c\u2026my husband loving me,\u201d\u2014whatever. Those are wonderful things; but I have to ultimately rest in the fact that God is all I need, and He will be enough.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:44:19):\r\n\r\nSo good. \r\n\r\nRay: And in the Magnificat\u2014again, in Luke, Chapter 1, verse 50\u2014Mary did not say: \u201cFor those who deserve Him, His mercy continues from generation to generation\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:44:34):\r\n\r\n\u201cFor those who fear Him\u2026.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:44:36):\r\n\r\nYeah, we just believe. Again, you have to be a Christian to be crazy enough to believe this: that God\u2014the gospel is not God's concession to us; it's not God's Plan B\u2014God loves to give to the undeserving. There is something about Him; we're not like that.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:44:57):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nRay (00:44:58):\r\n\r\nWe deeply believe in the \u201cPay as you go plan\u201d; right? \u201cThat's how life works.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:45:02):\r\n\r\n\u201cEarn it.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:45:03):\r\n\r\n\u201cEarn it, every inch of it.\u201d And God says, \u201cNo; actually, I have different ground rules. I love to give to the undeserving.\u201d Oh, man; where would we be\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:45:13):\r\n\r\nWhere would we be?\r\n\r\nRay (00:45:14):\r\n\r\n\u2014without the grace of God?\r\n\r\nDave (00:45:17):\r\n\r\nI know you talk about this in The Tenth Generation book. What does blessing look like?\u2014when you think, \u201cmarriage\u201d?\u2014when you think, \u201cfamily\u201d?\u2014when you think, \u201cgenerational\u201d? What does that look like; how does God bless?\r\n\r\nRay (00:45:32):\r\n\r\nBlessing is hope coming into our experience. It's that feeling\/that thought: \u201cOh, I've made so many mistakes. There's so much I don't understand; but maybe, my life really is going somewhere. Maybe, God is with me; and God can take this wreckage and make something beautiful out of it.\u201d That sense of what Jani just said: \u201cMy soul finds rest in God alone. He is my better future; He's going to make this happen\u201d; that's blessing coming down, even before things turn around. Blessing takes the form of hope\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:46:30):\r\n\r\nI like that.\r\n\r\nRay (00:46:30):\r\n\r\n\u2014in the mercy of God.\r\n\r\nJani (00:46:31):\r\n\r\nIt comes down before it spreads out.\r\n\r\nRay (00:46:34):\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nJani (00:46:34):\r\n\r\nIt comes down upon us; and then, starts spreading out.\r\n\r\nDave (00:46:38):\r\n\r\nWhat if\u2014I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit\u2014what if the couple listening\u2014or maybe, even a single person's listening, and wishing, and wondering, and hoping to get married\u2014either\/or; but they feel like it isn't coming down. It isn't turning.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:46:57):\r\n\r\nThey're not seeing God's blessing.\r\n\r\nDave (00:46:59):\r\n\r\n\u201cI'm in a valley. It's been a long dark valley, and there's no end in sight. In fact, I know there isn't going to be a quick turnaround the next three months\/six months. It might be years, if ever.\u201d How do you speak to them? They're just in the dark right now.\r\n\r\nRay (00:47:19):\r\n\r\nWell, who isn't in there?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:47:22):\r\n\r\nIt's so true!\r\n\r\nRay (00:47:23):\r\n\r\nI mean, who isn't living?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:47:25):\r\n\r\nPeople would say you guys aren't.\r\n\r\nRay (00:47:26):\r\n\r\nOh, who isn't living a Plan B life? Back when we were seniors in high school\u2014and we were awesome, and the sky was the limit\u2014and we thought of the future; we painted that picture in our minds. Who actually goes on to live that?\u2014nobody.\r\n\r\nJani (00:47:42):\r\n\r\nBut honey, Dave is thinking of those women who aren't married\u2014and that single woman, who is approaching age 45, where she knows she will not be able to bear children\u2014if she's to be given children, they'll be through adoption. He's asking, \u201cWhat do you say to that person?\u201d They do look at us, honey. Come on; I get to be married to Ray Ortlund. \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, Jani. No, you have to be.\r\n\r\nDave (00:48:10):\r\n\r\nThe great Ray Ortlund is your husband!\r\n\r\nJani (00:48:12):\r\n\r\nHe's mine; he's mine, all mine. \r\n\r\nRay: That\u2019s embarrassing, darling.\r\n\r\nDave: All yours. \r\n\r\nJani: Keep that in [the broadcast]; don't take it out. \r\n\r\nBut isn't that what you're asking, Dave?\r\n\r\nDave (00:48:24):\r\n\r\nI was just hoping Ann would say the same thing about her husband; but obviously, she didn't! \r\n\r\nJani: Now's your chance!\r\n\r\nDave:  And there's the end of that moment. That one\u2019s gone!\r\n\r\nAnn: I am married to the great Dave Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave: Blah, blah, blah.\r\n\r\nJani (00:48:31):\r\n\r\nThe thing is: God orchestrates each individual life with individual sorrows and trials for His glory, for His purpose. He's working Ephesians 1; He's working all things according to the counsel of His will. Whether I'm married to Ray for 60 years, or I'm single, He's working it according to the counsel of His will. So we want to keep pointing your listeners to God.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, John Piper wrote that great book, Don't Waste Your Life, that really helped me. I'd like to write a sequel: \u201cHe Will Not Waste Your Life.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:49:18):\r\n\r\nOh, that's good.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:20):\r\n\r\nThe person\/the listener who is thinking, \u201cSomehow, I'm excluded. Somehow, it doesn't work for me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Right, right.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:49:28):\r\n\r\n\u2014or \u201c\u2026for my marriage,\u201d or \u201c\u2026for my family.\u201d \r\n\r\nJani: \u2014 or \u201c\u2026my children.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: \u201cWe're divorced.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: That's what I was talking about.\r\n\r\nAnn: Or \u201cI've been divorced several times.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Many people feel that.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:34):\r\n\r\nYes, yes.\r\n\r\nJani (00:49:35):\r\n\r\nSo teach us.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:37):\r\n\r\nWe're talking about us now, because we are in the same category. Who else is God going to work with? Who's walking up into the presence of God, thinking, \u201cFrankly, You're lucky to have me on Your team. I'm strengthening Your hand. You're welcome.\u201d\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nThe person who's listening to this, thinking, \u201cGod has passed me by; I'm not in that stream of blessing,\u201d\u2014that is the person most ideally primed to receive God's blessing. I would say to that listener, down at rock bottom:\r\n\r\n(00:50:41):\r\n\r\nI ask you to do what Dave did that night\u2014and what I did in 1988 and so many times\u2014just get down on your knees; hand yourself over to God. Tell Him what you're really thinking. Tell Him what you're really feeling. He welcomes your honest reality. Tell Him of your broken heart and hand yourself over to Him completely, withholding nothing. God promises that your life will make an eternal difference\u2014your life\u2014He will not waste your life.\r\n\r\nDave (00:51:20):\r\n\r\nYou got to write that book. \r\n\r\nAnn: You do. \r\n\r\nYou know what came to my mind, Dave?\u2014as you were sharing that, Ray. I thought of your mom. Dave comes from a family of five children; his parents were divorced. I'm thinking about her, because Dave's dad had multiple affairs; an alcoholic; beat them\u2014horrible. So the older children, Dave was 10, 12, 14 years younger than his siblings.\r\n\r\nDave (00:51:49):\r\n\r\nMy little brother dies of leukemia\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:51:51):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's what I'm saying. \r\n\r\nDave (00:51:52):\r\n\r\n\u2014right after the divorce.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:51:52):\r\n\r\nThey go through divorce because the older sibling's like, \u201cMom, you have to get out of this for your safety.\u201d She divorces; moved to another state to be with her parents. Her youngest son and his brother, Dave, was seven\u2014this boy was five; Craig was five\u2014and died of leukemia six weeks after the divorce. \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, my goodness. \r\n\r\nAnn: You talk about a valley. But the thing that I think about with your mom was her heart for Jesus, her surrender to Jesus. Look what we are doing. She got to see so much of that\u2014of you starting a church, thousands of people attending; a marriage; grandkids\u2014she saw that. But the valley\u2014she didn't do anything but surrender; that's it\u2014that's all she did. But that valley that she walked for years.\r\n\r\nDave (00:52:46):\r\n\r\nYeah; I remember, as a seven-year-old when dad left; and then, teenager and watching mom cling to Jesus. I remember laughing, like, \u201cYou're going to believe in a God that let my little brother die and your husband, my dad, leave? You believe in that Guy?\u201d I mocked it. And then, when I was still in high school, she starts dating a guy, a coach of one of my baseball teams. They decided to get married; I'm going to have a dad. He dies a month before the wedding. She never remarried; she just had tragedy after tragedy. \r\n\r\nHearing Ann, right now, say she got to see the tenth generation come to Jesus. Watching her cling to her Jesus; I found that Jesus later. \r\n\r\nI know what you're feeling if you're\u2014when Ray said, \u201cHe's with you; hang on,\u201d\u2014it's true. He is\u2014you don't feel it; you don't see it\u2014He's right there.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:53:53):\r\n\r\nYou can\u2019t control.\r\n\r\nDave (00:53:53):\r\n\r\nHe said earlier: \u201cHis everlasting arms are your strength.\u201d Cling to Him.\r\n\r\nAnn: Surrender. \r\n\r\nDave (00:54:00):\r\n\r\nHe\u2019s there.\r\n\r\nRay (00:54:01):\r\n\r\nAnd your mom faithfully gave herself away to you.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:54:09):\r\n\r\nYes, she did.\r\n\r\nRay (00:54:09):\r\n\r\nAnd that single person, who's listening, I would say, \u201cFind a faithful church, a Jesus-centered gospel-teaching church. Go give your life away. Take a risk; stick your neck out. Go give your life away. And when you walk into heaven, there's going to be this huge fist-bumping, high-fiving team cheer\u2014massive celebration\u2014as you walk in through the grace of Christ. And people are going to come up with tears in their eyes, and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d \u201cThank you,\u201d \u201cThank you.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave (00:54:50):\r\n\r\nWhat a great\u2014you don't know this\u2014transition. We've got a couple audio tributes from a couple of your kids that they recorded. We're going to play them right now. \r\n\r\nRay: What?!\r\n\r\nJani: What?! Get the Kleenex out; oh! \r\n\r\nDave: It's right there.\r\n\r\nBruce,  which one do we want to play first?\r\n\r\nBruce (00:55:14):\r\n\r\nI've got Dane right here.\r\n\r\nDave (00:55:15):\r\n\r\nOkay. Here's your son, Dane. We just asked him to share a few words with you.\r\n\r\nDane (00:55:21):\r\n\r\nI am immensely thankful for my dad and mom, and I love them with all my heart. Respect them greatly and just revere their lives and their great loves. There are really three loves in their hearts that I have watched\u2014and seen lived out, seem proved and demonstrated\u2014and that have been deposited in me. \r\n\r\nOne is a love for the Lord Jesus Christ as a real person, as an actual Savior and Master\u2014not a theory, not a formula, not a force\u2014but an actual Person who is there caring for them and for me. The second great love in their life is a love for the Bible. I can picture my mom reading under a blanket, down on the couch in the living room, early in the morning with her cup of tea every morning. Whenever I would come down, whatever time it was, mom was there, reading Scripture.\r\n\r\n(00:56:16):\r\n\r\nDad likewise has given his life to the study of the Bible\u2014not just the study of it, but living in light of it and working it out in his life\u2014and I greatly respect that. \r\n\r\nAnd a love for the local church. A love for the Lord Jesus Christ, a love for the Bible, and a love for the church. I cannot imagine or consider living a life myself, or leading my own family and living life, that does not centralize the local church. It's unthinkable to me because of what I saw in Dad and Mom and the way they have given their lives to the local church as they should and as not all Christians do. They've been such a godly example in that way. \r\n\r\nSo with regard to the Lord Jesus, with regard to the Scripture, with regard to the local church, and many other things\u2014but those are the three great loves that they have lived out and given to me\u2014and which I am seeking to pass on to my own five children now with deep gratitude, and love, and respect to them and for them. \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, that's sweet.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:57:32):\r\n\r\nSo good!\r\n\r\nRay (00:57:34):\r\n\r\nWow, you guys. \r\n\r\nGavin: Hey Mom and Dad, I want to take a moment and just say, \u201cThank you for your faithfulness to Christ over the years. I've said this to you many times before, but I can't say it enough. I mean it from the bottom of my heart that the way both of you have served Christ over the years, not just in ministry, but just in who you are and how you relate to people\u2014the ways you think things through, the way you care for people genuinely\u2014just the sincere devotion to Christ that is in both of your hearts has more of an impact than you could possibly know. And the consequences of that rumble on day after day in my life for Esther, for each of our five kids, your faithfulness to God matters. And it's making a difference every single day that will last onto eternity. I think it's far beyond what you know. \r\n\r\n(00:58:16):\r\n\r\n\u201cBecause you've been doing it for so long, you're probably not even noticing it as much as others do; it's just instinctive to you. You think about: \u2018Oh, they need us to babysit the kids; we can do that,\u2019 or \u2018Oh, we're going to speak; we want to encourage them,\u2019\u2014it's just who you are; it's just instinctive. You're probably not even aware of how much of a blessing you're being, because it's habitual. It's just how you function\u2014with a heart of service and love toward others and honoring of Christ. \r\n\r\n\u201cThe difference that that makes for me, for my family, and for so many others is incalculable. And only in heaven will the true measure of it be possible to see. So thank you. You've made my life a joy by being faithful to Christ. You've painted the target for me. I know how to live because I just say, \u2018Okay, I want to follow the Lord and serve the Lord.\u2019 And I've seen a model of that in you. Not that you're perfect\u2014none of us are perfect\u2014but you've been a faithful model of serving Christ. So I just want to say, \u2018Thank you,\u2019 and \u2018I love you both from the bottom of my heart.\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:59:26):\r\n\r\nOh gosh, that's so sweet. \r\n\r\nJani: Take me home. \r\n\r\nRay: I think we're done.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:59:35):\r\n\r\nYou guys, that's everything, isn't it? \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, yes. \r\n\r\nJani: Oh, it is; it is.\r\n\r\nAnn: It\u2019s everything.\r\n\r\nJani (00:59:39):\r\n\r\nIt is that your kids love the Lord\u2014everything. Thank you for that! Oh, my goodness!\r\n\r\nAnn (00:59:46):\r\n\r\nWell, this book is so rich. We didn't even get into so many things: \u201cMaking Your Home a Foretaste of Heaven\u201d; there are just so many chapters. There was so much underlined and highlighted. This is a book every parent\/every home should read; because it's inspiring, and it points us back to Jesus. If you're thinking, \u201cWhat is my next step?\u201d\u2014we said it at the beginning\u2014\u201cSurrender\u201d\u2014 every day, it's a re-surrender to God:\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:15):\r\n\r\nAmen.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:16):\r\n\r\n\u2014\"I can't do it. I can't do anything apart from You.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:18):\r\n\r\nAnd after you get off your knees, go to a computer, your phone\u2014whatever\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the show notes. We'll have this book there that you can buy: To the Tenth Generation. You\u2019ll want to get it. \r\n\r\nThank you, guys. Man, what a day.\r\n\r\nJani (01:00:33):\r\n\r\nWhat a privilege to be with you. We thank you.\r\n\r\nRay (01:00:34):\r\n\r\nWe just feel overwhelmed with gratitude to you.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:37):\r\n\r\nYeah, we feel that.\r\n\r\nRay (01:00:38):\r\n\r\nWell, thank you. And our dear listeners, who have allowed us into their day and into their life, we're profoundly grateful. \r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:50):\r\n\r\nHey, thanks for watching. If you liked this episode,\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:53):\r\n\r\nYou better like it.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:53):\r\n\r\n\u2014just hit that \u201cLike\u201d button.\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:55):\r\n\r\nAnd we'd like you to subscribe. All you got to do is go down and hit the \u201cSubscribe\u201d\u2014\r\n\r\nI can't say the word, \u201csubscribe\u201d\u2014hit the \u201cSubscribe\u201d button. I don't think I can say this \r\n\r\nword! \r\n\r\nAnn: I can: \u201csubscribe.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: Look at that! You say it so easily. \u201cSubscribe\u201d; there he goes!\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com                                 \r\n\r\n\n"],"ssp_guid":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/to-the-tenth-generation-ray-ortlund\/"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-317460.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-317460.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container 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the world feels unsettled and family life feels small \u2014 pastor, author, and ministry leader Ray Ortlund and his wife Jani tip our eyes toward eternity.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-12-16.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson; Podcast Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nTo the Tenth Generation\r\n\r\nGuests:           Ray and Jani Ortlund \r\n\r\nRelease Date: December 16, 2025\r\n\r\nJani (00:00:00):\r\n\r\nGod has promised: \u201cI want to use your precious family to further My redemptive plan. Your family is crucial in My plan to redeem My world; watch Me.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:00:13):\r\n\r\nAnd when we just bow down before the Lord\u2014and say, \u201dI offer myself to You; I offer my family to You. I bow down; I surrender,\u201d\u2014God says, \u201cNow, that's what I'm talking about\u201d; and He will make it happen.\r\n\r\nJani (00:00:25):\r\n\r\nJust say, \u201cYes.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:00:31):\r\n\r\nAlright. We've got Ray and Jani Ortlund in the studio; what a pleasure to have you. We've had Dane in here many times. He's been on the Love Like You Mean It\u00ae cruise with us and had a great time. I found out something\u2014I don't know, Jani, if you were there\u2014but that Ray got to do; I've never been able to do in my entire life.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:00:51):\r\n\r\nOh, what?\r\n\r\nDave (00:00:51):\r\n\r\nIt is a bucket list that I wish\u2014it'll never happen because it's impossible\u2014but he did something I would've wished I could have done. In fact, I\u2019m going to tell you.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:01:00):\r\n\r\nA Super Bowl ring? Do you have a Super Bowl ring?\r\n\r\nRay: I wish!\r\n\r\nDave (00:01:02):\r\n\r\nI'm getting one of those this year; no. He, in 1968,\u2014\r\n\r\n Ray: \u2014\u201966.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014'66, saw\u2014[strumming guitar and singing] \u201cOh, yeah, I\u2019ll tell you something\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:01:21):\r\n\r\nOh, yeah, baby.\r\n\r\nDave: [singing]\u2014\u201cI want to hold your hand. I want to hold your hand. I want to hold your hand.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay: Oh, man.\r\n\r\nDave (00:01:33):\r\n\r\nYou saw the Beatles! Where? LA Dodger\u2019s Stadium. \r\n\r\nRay: LA Dodger\u2019s Stadium in LA, yeah. \r\n\r\nAnn: What?! You went to the concert?\r\n\r\nRay (00:01:42):\r\n\r\nYes, I heard the Beatles live. \r\n\r\nDave: Well, go ahead and tell them the truth. You didn't hear them; you heard a bunch of girls screaming.\r\n\r\nRay (00:01:45):\r\n\r\nOkay, that's true. It really was fun to see them, the real deal right there. But the sound system\u2014it was 1966\u2014and it was just terrible quality.\r\n\r\nDave (00:01:57):\r\n\r\n\u2014the box amps. The Beatles even said, \u201cWe couldn't hear ourselves.\u201d It was just crazy. And that was their next-to-last ever concert.\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:04):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:05):\r\n\r\nI didn't know that.\r\n\r\nDave (00:02:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, they had one more.\r\n\r\nRay: They flew from there; the next day, they flew to San Francisco; and they quit touring. It was 20,000 screaming teenage girls.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:15):\r\n\r\nAnd did you love The Beatles?\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:16):\r\n\r\nOh, yeah. Are you kidding?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:17):\r\n\r\nWho didn\u2019t, back then, right?\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:19):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nDave (00:02:20):\r\n\r\nWell, take us back. You were married right around then, right?\r\n\r\nJani (00:02:23):\r\n\r\nA few years later.\r\n\r\nDave (00:02:24):\r\n\r\nOkay, \u201968?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:24):\r\n\r\nBut you met when? \r\n\r\nJani: \u201868\u2014September 12th, 1968, about\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:31):\r\n\r\n\u20145:00 pm. I was minding my own business. I was just walking from the dorm to the dining hall.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:36):\r\n\r\n\u2014Wheaton College. \r\n\r\nRay: Yes.\r\n\r\nJani (00:02:39):\r\n\r\nI wasn\u2019t minding my own business.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:02:39):\r\n\r\nOkay.\r\n\r\nRay (00:02:40):\r\n\r\nThe dining hall opened at 5; it was like five minutes to 5. I was hungry, so I was on my way. I saw over to my left, about 50 feet away, a guy I had met a few days before. He was also on the football team; he was a freshman. I just thought, \u201cI'll say, \u2018Hi,\u2019 on my way.\u201d I walk over; and little do I realize\u2014here is this gorgeous new student on campus. Oh, my goodness.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:03:01):\r\n\r\nShe's a freshman.\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:02):\r\n\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:03:02):\r\n\r\nAnd you're a\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:03):\r\n\r\n\u2014sophomore. Oh, big sophomore. And oh, my goodness, I just melted. \r\n\r\nDave (00:03:10):\r\n\r\nJani, did you sort of plant yourself over there? Were you trying to\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:03:13):\r\n\r\nMe?\u2014plant myself so I could meet Buddy Ortlund, the football player? \r\n\r\nAnn: Was that his nickname?\u2014Buddy.\r\n\r\nJani: Buddy, yes. He was my roommate's pastor's son in her growing-up years. I had heard all about him and his family; I really wanted to meet him. I almost tripped him on his way to the dining room.\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:34):\r\n\r\nJani was from Minnesota. It was almost\u2014to this California boy\u2014was almost like the mythical far northern land. Oh, my goodness, walking out of that northern mist, here comes this amazing woman.\r\n\r\nJani (00:03:48):\r\n\r\nI had never seen an ocean before; so to meet someone from California, who loved the Lord, and was so cute to boot!\r\n\r\nRay (00:03:58):\r\n\r\nHere's the truth of it. A couple weeks later, I was in a conversation with another freshman guy. I don't know how he knew this, but he had heard through the grapevine that a guy had taken Jani out and tried to put a move on her. She shut him down. I thought, \u201cNo, wait a minute. We're talking about an absolutely gorgeous woman with Christian standards? I am taking her out!\u201d So that was what did it; I called her up, and we just began to fall crazy in love.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:04:29):\r\n\r\nDid you date all through college? \r\n\r\nJani: Yes. \r\n\r\nAnn: And then, when did you get married? \r\n\r\nJani (00:04:34):\r\n\r\nThe week I graduated. He wouldn't marry me until I graduated, so December 18, 1971. I went through summer school to graduate early.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:04:43):\r\n\r\nSo give us a little bit of your history in terms of: How many kids?  How long have you been married now? We can add it up, but you can just tell us.\r\n\r\nJani (00:04:53):\r\n\r\nIt will be 54 years this December we've been married. We have four children; and all married, loving Jesus. Oh, we thank the Lord for that; don't we, darling?\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:04):\r\n\r\n\u201415 grandchildren.\r\n\r\nJani (00:05:05):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:06):\r\n\r\nWe're so grateful; we just feel immeasurably rich. We didn't cook this up. We didn't have a whiteboard and markers; we didn't mastermind this.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:05:17):\r\n\r\nGod's grace.\r\n\r\nRay: God\u2019s grace.\r\n\r\nJani: \u201cNot to us, O LORD; not to us, but to Your name be glory\u201d (Psalm 115).\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:24):\r\n\r\nWell, you know what it's like. You just live each day, and God is the One masterminding the better future we really long for. If we were to draw the plan, it would be inferior to what God gives.\r\n\r\nDave (00:05:39):\r\n\r\nI mean, we sit here; and we hear the story. We think, \u201cOh, it must have been pretty easy, and no struggles.\u201d Were there struggles?\r\n\r\nJani (00:05:45):\r\n\r\nHow long do we have? Oh, my goodness. Do you want to hear about our first fight or our argument yesterday? \r\n\r\nAnn: Let me ask you\u2014because we say this\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (00:05:55):\r\n\r\nI want to hear about the argument yesterday.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:05:57):\r\n\r\nDid you have an argument yesterday?\r\n\r\nRay (00:05:59):\r\n\r\nWell, I wouldn't call it an argument. It was an interesting discussion. \r\n\r\nDave: It doesn't matter what you think.\r\n\r\nJani (00:06:03):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nRay (00:06:03):\r\n\r\nI said to Jani\u2014we were in the Orlando airport\u2014I'm just being me, and I'm annoying her. I can tell that I'm annoying her. I said to her, \u201cHoney, I really like it when you chew me out, because then I feel more comfortable. I feel like you're free to tell me what you really think and feel.\u201d So it was\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (00:06:26):\r\n\r\nDid you chew him out pretty good? \r\n\r\nJani (00:06:28):\r\n\r\nWell, what's your definition of \u201cpretty good,\u201d Dave? I don't think so. \r\n\r\nWe laugh a lot more now in our marriage. \r\n\r\nAnn: We do too. \r\n\r\nJani: Isn't it wonderful? \r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah.\r\n\r\nDave (00:06:40):\r\n\r\nNow why do you think that is? \u2014\"\u2026 a lot more now\u2026\u201d\u2014what happened?\r\n\r\nJani (00:06:44):\r\n\r\nBefore, I was worried that he would never get me; and I would have to fight to be understood and accepted. But through the years, he has proven over and over: \u201cJani, we're going to make this a win-win.\u201d He has done that. So now I can just laugh when he annoys me; tell him.\r\n\r\nRay (00:07:12):\r\n\r\nAnd by now we know we're going to get through the crisis du jour, not because we're so great at it, but because the Lord is present. Underneath are the everlasting arms. We don't always feel that, but we can know that. And even if we forget it\u2014still, underneath, are the everlasting arms\u2014He's not just keeping our faith alive; He's keeping our laughter bubbling as well.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:07:45):\r\n\r\nThat's sweet, isn't it?\r\n\r\nRay (00:07:46):\r\n\r\nYeah, it is.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:07:47):\r\n\r\nLet me ask you: \u201cWhen you got married, did you think you would struggle the way you did?\u201d Because every single couple struggles; there's not a couple living that hasn't gone through some real valleys, whether in life or marriage. Dave and I thought, because we were so in love and because we love Jesus so much, we would not struggle. What did you think?\r\n\r\nDave (00:08:10):\r\n\r\nAnd we did. \r\n\r\nAnn (00:08:11):\r\n\r\nWe did so much.\r\n\r\nDave (00:08:12):\r\n\r\n\u2014immediately.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:08:13):\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\nDave (00:08:13):\r\n\r\nWe sort of thought: \u201cThe past is buried. It's the old creation; we're new in Christ\u2014\r\n\r\n2 Corinthians 5\u2014which is all true. We thought that meant: \u201cOh, we won't struggle. We love Jesus; we love each other, going into ministry.\u201d And then, we struggled; and we were surprised. \r\n\r\nWas that your story\u2014or no?\u2014you knew you were going to struggle.\r\n\r\nRay (00:08:35):\r\n\r\nOkay, here's my theory on this. Let me try this out on you, honey; tell me what you think.\r\n\r\nJani (00:08:38):\r\n\r\nFirst time on\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:08:40):\r\n\r\nYeah, okay. I think God gives us, as a gift, this crazy euphoria we call romance. Because if we were in our right minds, we would never make the total commitment of marriage. I mean, you're committing, in advance, to what you can't foresee. That's crazy.\r\n\r\nDave (00:09:02):\r\n\r\nMaking a promise\/covenant.\r\n\r\nRay (00:09:04):\r\n\r\nYes. I think God says, \u201cWell, if they were sensible at all, they would never make a commitment. So I'm going to sort of propel them into it.\u201d He sprinkles His pixie dust on us, and we enter into temporary insanity; do the deal. And then, it sort of wears off, with little spikes along the way. But without that surge of crazy, wonderful romance, we might not take the risk. \r\n\r\nI believe that taking the risk of total love, it's not just\u2014okay, you have to be a Christian to be crazy enough to believe this\u2014if Ephesians 5 is telling us the truth about the reality of Christ and the church in romantic love, we've parachuted into a universe where ultimate reality is romance. We're receiving, as married couples, we're receiving the privilege of sort of replicating it on a small scale imperfectly; but really, in our own experience, so that people who will never darken the door of a church to hear the gospel can see the gospel just because we're married.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:10:29):\r\n\r\nExactly.\r\n\r\nRay (00:10:30):\r\n\r\nThat's crazy.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:10:31):\r\n\r\nWhen you love someone, and see all of their flaws, but continue to love them unconditionally; that's the gospel.\r\n\r\nRay (00:10:37):\r\n\r\nIt is.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:10:40):\r\n\r\nDid you know that 40 percent of our ministry support comes in these final weeks of the year? Your gift, in this season, helps us continue sharing the hope of the gospel with families everywhere.\r\n\r\nDave (00:10:53):\r\n\r\nSo come be a part of the team that helps make this ministry possible. How can you do it? You can give at FamilyLifeToday.com, or give us a call at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \r\n\r\nOkay, let's go back to the show. Okay, let's go back to the conversation. \r\n\r\nAnn: [singing] \u201cLet's go back to it.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: Please keep that in.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:11:09):\r\n\r\nWe're talking today about your book, To the Tenth Generation. What is that about? What a good title. Explain everything.\r\n\r\nRay (00:11:25):\r\n\r\nWell, the subtitle\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:11:27):\r\n\r\n\u2014God's Heart for Your Family, Far into the Future. It's a new concept that the Lord gave us\u2014what?\u2014five\/six years ago as the Lord\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:11:39):\r\n\r\nYeah, the Lord gave it to you, honey.\r\n\r\nJani (00:11:41):\r\n\r\nI was sitting, just very innocently reading my Bible; I know this has happened to you and to our listeners. I read through the Bible generally once a year.\r\n\r\nAnn: So do I.\r\n\r\nJani: I was in Deuteronomy 23 of all places.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:11:58):\r\n\r\nReally?!\r\n\r\nJani (00:11:59):\r\n\r\nYes! Deuteronomy 23. I came to the first few verses, 2 and 3, I think they were, where God says, \u201cTell those people groups\u201d\u2014I think it's the Ammonites and the Edomites\u2014\"that they're going to be excluded from My presence, to the tenth generation, because\u201d\u2014and He explained why. \r\n\r\nI stopped, and thought, \u201cWait a minute, that doesn't seem fair!\u201d That question arose in my heart: \u201cLord, I don't get this. This is not what makes sense to me.\u201d I found myself\u2014I'm embarrassed to admit this\u2014judging God's ways, saying, \u201cHow could You?\u2014to the tenth generation?\u201d I prayed about it; I thought about it. I brought it to Ray; we started talking about it. We began thinking about who God really is, not what I make Him out to be by reading one or two verses.\r\n\r\n(00:13:07):\r\n\r\nWe began thinking, throughout all of Scripture\u2014God's bias toward blessing; God's bias toward welcome; God's bias towards receiving us supremely\u2014and His Son; we see it there. I thought, \u201cWell, I've had this question mark. Now, from Deuteronomy 23 on, I'm going to start looking for verses that talk about God's blessing the generations; they're everywhere! I wish we had time to go through all of them. I had just read a few days before that time in Deuteronomy 23, in Deuteronomy 7, where He talks about being the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations.\r\n\r\nRay (00:14:12):\r\n\r\nAmazing.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:14:12):\r\n\r\nThat is amazing.\r\n\r\nJani: \u2014a thousand generations. Over, and over, and over again, if you look through my Bible, you'd see the little symbol 10th on page, after page, after page where God has promised: \u201cI want to use your precious family to further My redemptive plan.\u201d It's: \u201cYour family is crucial in My plan to redeem My world; watch Me.\u201d That's what this book is about. What would you add, hon?\r\n\r\nRay (00:14:47):\r\n\r\nWell, as we thought about some of those Old Testament passages through a gospel lens, exactly what Jani was saying: \u201cIf God had His reasons for excluding certain people\u2014people groups and families to the tenth generation\u2014how much more, in Christ, does He long to bless families to the tenth generation and beyond?\u201d So like you guys, when we got married, we weren't thinking far into the future. We just\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:15:22):\r\n\r\n\u2014the next day.\r\n\r\nRay (00:15:23):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's right. But what we've come to realize is this: \u201cGod has an intergenerational plan for our family.\u201d Here's why that matters: in the United States of America right now, there's a lot of fear; there's a lot of anger, a lot of anxiety, a lot of uncertainty. But God has put covenant promises on His churches and on Christian families as He has not put covenant promises on nations, corporations, sports teams, and so forth. Churches and Christian homes are receiving promises from above that will last: they're durable; they're industrial strength; they\u2019re military grade.\r\n\r\n(00:16:13):\r\n\r\nThese promises of God are going to get us through these hard times. \r\n\r\nJani and I thought it through; we did the math: December 18, 1971; just two of us. We have four kids; they get married. Two become eight in one generational shift. Now those eight have now produced fifteen grandchildren\u2014so two, eight, fifteen\u2014you see where this is going, exponentially. At this point, it starts becoming hypothetical but not implausible. One of those grandchildren is already married, so they're going to have babies. Now, at present trends, our family, in ten generations is going to be 55,000 people.\r\n\r\nDave (00:17:06):\r\n\r\nIs that right?\r\n\r\nRay (00:17:07):\r\n\r\nYes!\r\n\r\nJani (00:17:08):\r\n\r\nAnd it's all our fault. The hope and dream of this book is that families will catch the vision that they really matter to the Lord and that what they're doing today can matter far out into the future.\r\n\r\nRay (00:17:26):\r\n\r\nYes. We\u2019re trivialized by our world every day; we're told in so many ways: \u201cYou don't matter. You might matter as part of a voting block; you might matter as part of a market niche, but you actually don't matter; and your family is only, at best, useful.\u201d\r\n\r\nJani (00:17:45):\r\n\r\nAnd we believe that; we take that in as families. We think, \u201cOh, my family's so boring. It's just a daily routine: get up; feed the kids; do the laundry; go to work.\u201d We don't see the magnificence of the Lord in it. He promises\u2014is it in Exodus 20?\u2014that \u201cEverywhere I cause My name to be remembered, I will come and bless.\u201d\r\n\r\n(00:18:10):\r\n\r\nHis blessing is on the mundane, the boring. Let's not be Christians\u2014\r\n\r\nRay (00:18:15):\r\n\r\n\u2014the daily, the ordinary\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:18:15):\r\n\r\n\u2014who settle for less than what God has envisioned: His mighty purposes for our families.\r\n\r\nRay (00:18:22):\r\n\r\nWhat we've come to realize is equally true of you and every Christian dad and mom listening. We have our family right now; we also have a future family. We can love our future family right now. We can't control the future, but we can invest in the future. We can give our hearts, our prayers and our devotion right now such that dominoes are going to fall over, far into the future. We're way more significant than we've ever realized. Anyway, this landed on us. It changed how we saw our family and how we treat them.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:19:00):\r\n\r\nYou guys, no wonder there's such a spiritual warfare\u2014a battle going on over the family\u2014because of this impact that we can have on the entire world.\r\n\r\nRay (00:19:11):\r\n\r\nThat's a good point.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:19:12):\r\n\r\nFifty-five thousand people is a city.\r\n\r\nRay (00:19:14):\r\n\r\nSarasota, Florida.\r\n\r\nDave: Yeah, it's a big city.\r\n\r\nJani (00:19:18):\r\n\r\nSo let's be Christian leaders who encourage our fellow Christians that God is bigger than our fear of the future. I can sit here in this chair and be so scared about everything; but God has promised\u2014where?\u2014in Acts 2:39: \u201cFor the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off.\u201d He's promised me already that, if I look to Him, it will have an impact on my children, my great-grandchildren, far into the future for all those who are far off. How big is our God? Isn't that wonderful? We don't need to be scared!\r\n\r\nDave (00:20:03):\r\n\r\nThat's your quote in the second chapter: \u201cHow Big God Is Matters More than How Frightening the Future Is.\u201d I've always said: \u201cThe size of your God is more important than the size of your faith.\u201d Answer this: \u201cHow does a normal Christian get a bigger God? How do we grow in the size of our God?\u201d What would you say?\r\n\r\nRay (00:20:25):\r\n\r\nWell, one thing is to just dare: dare to believe the promises of the Bible. They were paid for, in advance, in full by Christ at His cross. Every bill we run up from then on, God pays it. Let's believe in grace upon grace\u2014John, Chapter 1, verse 16. I love the way Martin Luther taught us how to fight back against Satan's lies; Luther said this from his commentary on Galatians\u2014he said, \u201cWhen the devil comes to us, and says to us, \u2018You are so evil; you're going to be damned,\u2019 we should reply: \u2018Precisely, because you say I am so evil, I will be justified and saved.\u2019 Satan will reply, \u2018No, you will end up damned.\u2019 We will say, \u2018No, for Christ died for my sins. My sins are on His shoulders, not on mine. So Satan, when you tell me how sinful I am, you don't dishearten me at all. In fact, you comfort me.\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nWhen we think we're so\u2014we're failures; we're inadequate; we're disqualified; \u201cI had my chance, but I blew it; God's finished with me,\u201d\u2014now, those are the very people whom God loves, embraces, includes. If we think, \u201cGod could never use me,\u201d we're ready for God to use us.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:21:58):\r\n\r\nThat's such a good reminder.\r\n\r\nJani (00:21:59):\r\n\r\nI would add and emphasize what you've been saying, honey, this way: \u201cHow do we increase our faith?\u201d We go to His Word; we listen to Him.\r\n\r\n(00:22:10):\r\n\r\nAnd we look for those promises that Ray has mentioned, and that we've been sharing; and we pray them: \u201cLord, You said this. Now make it happen today in my life and in my future\u2014in my children's life\u2014over and over and into the tenth generation.\u201d We have several of those promises. \r\n\r\nWe hope your listeners might pick it up and look through it and be encouraged for how God loves the generations. One of my favorite verses is from Isaiah 65, verse 23, says: \u201cThey shall not labor in vain.\u201d Don't you love that word, Ann?\u2014the laboring of a woman\u2014\u201cThey shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord and their descendants with them.\u201d \u201cIt's not just you, Jani; I'm looking at your grandchildren and your great-great grandchildren. Hold fast to Me; it matters, today, for them.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:23:17):\r\n\r\nOne of my favorites is in Luke's Gospel, Chapter 1. Mary says in the Magnificat, and in this wonderful prayer, that she declares when she knows that our Savior, our Messiah is coming through her, she looks\u2014using Old Testament language\u2014she just rejoices in the ways of God\/the strategies of God; how He rolls. \u201cWhat's going on here?\u201d She says in verse 50 of Luke 1: \u201cGod's mercy is for those who fear Him from generation to generation.\u201d In other words, God's not making this up as He goes. He's not, right now, nervously working on Plan B; He's got His plan. Everything is going His way, and His plan includes intergenerational blessing for those who fear Him. \r\n\r\nWhat then does it mean for Jani and me\u2014for you guys\u2014to fear the Lord? Well, my mind goes back to Genesis, Chapter 22, where Abraham puts his son down before God and surrenders his son to the Lord. And the Lord says, \u201cNow I know that you fear Me.\u201d Fear is reverent openness to God. When Jani and I\u2014when you guys, every Christian dad and mom listening\u2014when we just bow down before the Lord, and say, \u201cI'm not good at this, but I offer myself to You. I offer my family to You. I bow down; I surrender now. Be glorified in us,\u201d God says, \u201cNow, that's what I'm talking about.\u201d Blessing kicks in. That's all we have to do guys; we don't have to deserve His grace.\r\n\r\n(00:25:02):\r\n\r\nWe don't have to qualify; we don't have to keep earning it. Our obedience has no purchasing power; we just yield to Him, and He will make it happen.\r\n\r\nJani (00:25:13):\r\n\r\nJust say, \u201cYes.\u201d Just say, \u201cYes,\u201d to Him. That's what our children's book that accompanies this teaches\/helps parents to teach their children.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:25:24):\r\n\r\nAnd what's the title of your children's book?\r\n\r\nJani (00:25:26):\r\n\r\nYour Family Is God's Plan:\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:25:29):\r\n\r\nI love that.\r\n\r\nJani (00:25:29):\r\n\r\n\u2014His Mercy from Generation to Generation is based on Luke 1:50, teaching your child to say, \u201cYes.\u201d When you say, \u201cYes,\u201d to God, no matter how hard it is, you can trust Him.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:25:42):\r\n\r\nI think that, in a nutshell, is everything; because we make it so complicated: \u201cI need to do this,\u201d \u201cI need to go here,\u201d \u201cI need it.\u201d What it really is\u2014and Dave and I did this\u2014I bet you guys did this, too: on our honeymoon night, we knelt at the foot of the bed before we got in the bed, and we prayed that prayer: \u201cGod, we pray\/we give You our marriage. We surrender our lives, our future. And we pray that You would give us a marriage, not a good marriage, but a great marriage that would impact the world for Christ.\u201d \r\n\r\nIn other words, all it did is: \u201cWe give You our lives, God. We don't know what we're doing. We have no idea what's ahead, but we surrender.\u201d That's the prayer for a family. \r\n\r\nThat's it; that's it, you guys. It's the best, the biggest. Jesus is like, \u201cOkay, I got you. Wait until you see the journey\u201d; and it's not easy, but it\u2019s good.\r\n\r\nRay (00:26:35):\r\n\r\nNo, we wouldn't want it to be easy.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:26:38):\r\n\r\nI would, Ray; I would like it to be so. We have a different opinion about that!\r\n\r\nRay (00:26:44):\r\n\r\nI remember reading about Bill and Vonette Bright.\r\n\r\nJani (00:26:47):\r\n\r\nYes!\r\n\r\nRay (00:26:48):\r\n\r\nHe was in the candy business, wasn't he? They came to a threshold in their life together when they took out a piece of paper, as I understand it, and literally signed themselves over to the Lord.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:27:02):\r\n\r\n\u2014a contract. \r\n\r\nRay (00:27:04):\r\n\r\nYeah; every listening dad and mom: \u201cWhat a great idea. Literally, take out a piece of paper and write out a commitment to the Lord.\u201d \r\n\r\nI remember a day in 1988 when I was at a very low point. I was a pastor in Oregon. I was sincere but clueless.\r\n\r\nDave: Been there.\r\n\r\nRay: I wasn't doing a very good job. It was not going well, but I didn't know what else to do. I took out my typewriter, and I typed out the total surrender as best I could articulate it. It wasn't fancy, but I just handed myself over to the Lord. I signed it; I dated it. I came to realize, later, that was a turning point. I didn't orchestrate how things would turn around and get better; I did not do that. All I could do is give the Lord my need. We all deeply believe\u2014the four of us are living proof\u2014God's faithfulness, over the long-term, for people who really don't deserve it.  I love that.\r\n\r\nDave (00:28:17):\r\n\r\nI didn't think of it at the moment; but when I surrendered\u2014when I became a Christian, literally, I just sort of caught my girlfriend\u2014it wasn\u2019t Ann\u2014with another guy. So there was this betrayal that was going on that I sensed. I literally found out it was true. And it was the last straw for me; I was like, \u201cI've been holding onto this; been holding onto my football future\u201d\u2014and just having a second knee surgery\u2014and I'm like, \u201cI'm done. I'm done trying to live my way and get what I want.\u201d It was that moment I was broken. I get on my knees, in my childhood bedroom, and I just said just what you did. I said, \u201cI'm done. I'm not living for me anymore. I repent of my sin. I'm a broken sinner, and I need forgiveness.\u201d\r\n\r\n(00:29:07):\r\n\r\nI knew the gospel\u2014I heard it enough times in the last year\u2014and I just said right there; I said, \u201cI'll go and do and be anything You want me to be. My life is now Yours, whatever You want.\u201d \r\n\r\nI look back in that moment; I didn't feel this. Now, I look back, sort of what you were saying, Ray, it's almost like heaven is looking down. I've said this, sometimes in a sermon, I think Jesus is up there, looking down at me, like this; and I go\u2014I know this isn't theologically accurate, but just go with me here\u2014it's like He looks down at me, and He sees me on my knees. He goes, \u201cHey, Wilson, you serious? You really serious?\u201d And I'm like, \u201cYeah, I'm serious.\u201d He goes, \u201cAlright, you won't believe what I got for you! This is so different than you thought it was, but I'm going to just take you on the journey of your life.\u201d And again, that doesn't mean easy.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:29:50):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nDave (00:29:50):\r\n\r\nI mean difficulties and trials were in the future, but it means: \u201cYou're going to live the life I've created you to live.\u201d Not even thinking, in that moment, that decision affected this; and now, a legacy of Wilsons and grandkids. That was not in my mind there, but it was in God's.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:30:09):\r\n\r\nWhat's crazy is the same night that he did that, I was working a factory job, earning college money to go to school in the summer. The same night I was on an assembly line, shooting screws into dishwasher doors, praying the same prayer: \u201cGod, I feel like I've just been trying to\u2014I'm on the fence\u2014I'm living both sides, the world and for You, I'm done doing that. I give my life to You; I surrender everything. I'll go\u201d\u2014same words\u2014\"I'll go anywhere; I'll do anything. \r\n\r\nRay (00:30:38):\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s amazing.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:30:39):\r\n\r\n\u201cFor the rest of my life, I'm going to follow You.\u201d At the end of my prayer, I said, \u201cAnd God,\u201d\u2014I was dating this other guy\u2014\u201cit seems like that Dave Wilson guy\u201d\u2014we are from the same hometown\u2014\u201cit seems like he is passionate about You. Maybe he could find me somebody to disciple me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:30:57):\r\n\r\nI think she thought I was cute; she wanted to date me.\r\n\r\nAnn: He was very cute!\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:03):\r\n\r\nYou know what I love about this? Every listener who is\u2014this just works for everybody. \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes!\r\n\r\nRay: You don't have to have a PhD.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:31:14):\r\n\r\nDoesn't matter what you\u2019ve done.\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:15):\r\n\r\nYou don't need to be spiritually gigantic. If it were just\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:31:19):\r\n\r\n\u2014His mercy; we've been talking about His mercy. It\u2019s for those who fear Him.\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:21):\r\n\r\nOkay, here's the story from me. I was totally falling in love with Jani, and I called up to ask her out. This was in April, 1969; and she'd already accepted a date with another guy.\r\n\r\nJani (00:31:37):\r\n\r\nGetting jealous enough to commit.\r\n\r\nAnn: Smart!\r\n\r\nDave (00:31:39):\r\n\r\nYou\u2019re playing hard to get. I get it. \r\n\r\nRay: And I thought, \u201cWhat?! This is not good. I need to ask Jani to go steady with me because\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:31:48):\r\n\r\nDo your listeners know what going steady means?\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:50):\r\n\r\nDoes that even work anymore?\r\n\r\nAnn: Now they do.\r\n\r\nDave (00:31:53):\r\n\r\n It\u2019s a thing on Facebook.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:31:53):\r\n\r\nWe know!\r\n\r\nRay (00:31:55):\r\n\r\nTalk about not being theologically sophisticated. I decide: \u201cI'm going to play Bible roulette here. I'm going to just start reading the Bible, because I need guidance from God. I really want to ask her to go study with me, but I don't want to cook this up on my own; because I really want God to be part of this. I'm just going to read the Bible until a verse leaps off the page at me; and then, I'll know what God's answer is.\u201d \r\n\r\nI'm turning to the book of Leviticus.\r\n\r\nDave (00:32:24):\r\n\r\nHey listeners, by the way, this isn't a great way to read the Bible.\r\n\r\nRay (00:32:26):\r\n\r\nNo, no; I don\u2019t.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:32:29):\r\n\r\nLeviticus; you turned to Leviticus? \r\n\r\nRay: Well, I was on my way there; because I was thinking, \u201cThat's the most unhelpful book. So when I get the answer, it will really work.\u201d Then I'm thinking, \u201cNo, Ecclesiastes is even more weird\u201d; so I'm turning to Ecclesiastes. I start reading in Chapter 1, verse 1, having no idea how incredibly relevant Ecclesiastes is. \r\n\r\nDave: Oh, what a book.\r\n\r\nRay (00:32:50):\r\n\r\nI come to Chapter 11, and this is what I read: \u201c Rejoice, oh, young man in your youth and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. Walk in the ways of your heart in the sight of your eyes.\u201d I thought, \u201cWhat? God\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014\u201c\u2026the sight of my eyes?\u201d \r\n\r\nRay: \u2014\"is affirming?\u201d God is saying, \u201cYou like her, don't you? So ask her. I'm not promising she'll say, \u2018Yes\u2019; but treat her right because she belongs to Me. But go ahead and ask her, and I will bless you.\u201d\r\n\r\nJani (00:33:32):\r\n\r\nAnd he did; and I said, \u201cYes.\u201d And here we are, 54 years later. \r\n\r\nDave: You said, \u201cNo,\u201d to that other guy? \r\n\r\nJani: Well, I went out with him; but never again.\r\n\r\nRay (00:33:43):\r\n\r\nYeah; so I called her back; asked her out for the next weekend. She said, \u201cYes.\u201d But the point is\u2014here we are; we\u2019re dopey teenagers\u2014and God loves dopey teenagers. God loves parents who feel inadequate, and exhausted, and worried. God loves\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:34:04):\r\n\r\n\u2014worried grandparents, who are anxious for their young ones.\r\n\r\nRay (00:34:09):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's right. And God is with us.\r\n\r\nLuke (00:34:13):\r\n\r\nHi friends, we're Luke and Kristina Middendorf. I serve as the President of FamilyLife, and we're so glad you're joining us for FamilyLife Today. Did you know that 40 percent of our ministry support comes in at the end of the year? That's why your gift right now makes such a difference.\r\n\r\nKristina (00:34:29):\r\n\r\nAnd this month, every donation you give is matched, dollar for dollar. Your generosity helps families experience the gospel and see God's faithfulness in their story. You can give at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 800-FL-TODAY.\r\n\r\nLuke (00:34:48):\r\n\r\nWe're so grateful for you. Now, let's get back to the conversation.\r\n\r\nDave (00:34:54):\r\n\r\nNow, what do you say to the couple who\u2019s listening\u2014that I'm guessing right now; I was thinking\u2014\u201cYeah, I listen to the Wilsons and the Ortlunds. Their life has been pretty marvelous and special, and they're blessed. God answered their prayer, but we are struggling. \r\n\r\n(00:35:08):\r\n\r\nWe have kids who have walked away from the faith. My husband's walked\u2026\u201d\u2014whatever their struggle is. I know there's people watching or listening; and they're like, \u201cWe're not blessed like these two couples; they have a special blessing. They're in ministry; they're pastors.\u201d You know what I'm saying? I know a lot of people think that our blessing is uniquely better than theirs. Even hearing our stories, like, \u201cLook at God was in it, but He's not with us.\u201d You just said He's with them\u2014and we know He is\u2014but what would you say to that couple who right now is struggling to believe in\u2014  \r\n\r\nAnn (00:35:39):\r\n\r\nThey\u2019re just wanting to give up.\r\n\r\nDave (00:35:39):\r\n\r\n\u2014their life is charmed like ours.\r\n\r\nRay (00:35:44):\r\n\r\nWe were at the low point of our life in 2007. We had the privilege of spending a day with David Paulison, who was a biblical counselor back in Philadelphia.\r\n\r\nDave (00:35:57):\r\n\r\nYeah, I know the name. \r\n\r\nJani (00:35:59):\r\n\r\nHe\u2019s with the Lord now.\r\n\r\nRay (00:36:01):\r\n\r\nAnd he was so wise and so helpful. He said, \u201cOkay, you guys are going through a horrible season in life; and this is going to take a while. So here's what I recommend: why don't you ask the Lord for a verse of Scripture? Ask the Lord for a promise and encouragement. And when the Lord gives it to you, latch onto it; wallpaper your reality with that promise. However dark the nighttime sky might be, you can look up and see that north star; get your bearings; keep going.\u201d Oh, that was so helpful. \r\n\r\nAbout two weeks later, Jani is sitting there, reading 1 Peter, Chapter 5. She reads verse 10; she says, \u201cRay, listen to this!\u201d She reads this verse: \u201cAfter you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.\u201d\r\n\r\nJani (00:37:15):\r\n\r\nWe claimed that promise because of David's kind counsel to us. We wrote it out: put it on our mirror where we brush our teeth; and on our refrigerator door; in the car. We memorized it and asked the Lord: \u201cThis is Your promise to us. We know You will confirm it eventually; maybe, in our lifetime\u201d; and He has. \r\n\r\nRay (00:37:41):\r\n\r\nYes, just one step after another from then on.\r\n\r\nJani (00:37:44):\r\n\r\nWe would encourage people who feel like failures to go to the Word again and look for a promise for them, and hold God to it.\r\n\r\nDave (00:37:56):\r\n\r\n\u201cWallpaper your reality with it.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: What a phrase.\r\n\r\nDave: What a phrase!\r\n\r\nRay (00:38:02):\r\n\r\nIt wasn't a quick fix.\r\n\r\nJani (00:38:03):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nRay (00:38:04):\r\n\r\nWe had a lot of things to work through, but that verse gave us hope. Hope is what gets us through anything.\r\n\r\nJani (00:38:12):\r\n\r\nWe still will say, \u201cOh, that's a 1 Peter 5:10 experience.\u201d We say that about today, being with you, whom we respect so much. \r\n\r\nI might add here about those who feel like they're failures. We do write about that in our book To the Tenth\u2026 Jesus died for failures; He didn't die for successes. Those who are successful don't need Him\u2014it's the weak\u2014that's when He enters in. It's the weak who receive His power, and His strength, and His grace. Where you feel you're failing, that's where Jesus welcomes you most. He doesn't want to just pat you on the back, and say, \u201cHey, way to go. You don't need Me; go on!\u201d He loves it when we come to Him with our failures, and say, \u201cThis is hopeless. There's nothing I can do. Only You can save this situation.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:39:15):\r\n\r\nDo you remember your failure or your struggle\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:39:19):\r\n\r\nOh, yes.\r\n\r\nDave (00:39:19):\r\n\r\n\u2014that put you in that counselor's chair? \r\n\r\nJani (00:39:22):\r\n\r\nWe do.\r\n\r\nRay (00:39:22):\r\n\r\nYeah, it was a ministry catastrophe. I wondered if I had a future in ministry. It wasn't just less blessing than normal; the bottom fell out, and in a particularly humiliating way. I was psychologically incapable of experiencing what the English word, \u201cencouragement,\u201d is talking about. I was not able to trust the Lord. Jani was the one\u2014I said, \u201cSweetheart, let's go on your faith for a while until I can get back on my feet,\u201d\u2014my precious warrior wife got me through that.\r\n\r\nJani (00:40:06):\r\n\r\nBecause I knew what Ray was hearing from a few men in particular that was not true.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:40:14):\r\n\r\nJani, did it make you mad?\r\n\r\nJani (00:40:15):\r\n\r\nOh, I was so angry.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:40:15):\r\n\r\nI was going to say\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:40:17):\r\n\r\nI was so angry, because it was slanderous. It was totally against the gospel. In the middle of it all, Ray's beloved father passed away. And Ray's dad was his hero, my hero. It was just awful.\r\n\r\nRay (00:40:38):\r\n\r\nOn my dad's dying day, we were over in Ireland. He was at the hospital, of course, there in California. The family gathered around his bedside. They sang hymns; they read Scripture. He gave a word of patriarchal blessing to each member of the family before he died. And when we got back, I asked my sister, \u201cWhat did Dad\/what was his word to me?\u201d And dad said to them, \u201cTell Bud ministry isn't everything; Jesus is.\u201d\r\n\r\n(00:41:16):\r\n\r\nI want to say that to all our listeners: \u201cWhatever it is that you feel like you're losing or have lost\u2014ministry really matters, that's why we care; family matters; jobs matter; everything about us matters in the sight of God\u2014but only Jesus is our salvation. And when Jesus is our salvation, other things in life tend, over time, to fall into place. There's hope; there's hope.\u201d I didn't engineer that; I didn't deserve that; I didn't mastermind it. I just received it. \r\n\r\nI would just say to our listeners, who are deeply disheartened and brokenhearted: \u201cWell 1, I wish I could just put my arm around you right now; because you\u2019re my people. Secondly, God is with you. He is your everything. Move all your chips over onto His square.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:42:33):\r\n\r\nI like that.\r\n\r\nRay (00:42:33):\r\n\r\nYeah. Say, \u201cLord, You're my future; You're my hope. I'm going to hang onto You for dear life. I'm going to wallpaper my reality with Your promises. I'm just going to believe\u2014I'm going to defiantly believe\u2014You're going to get me through this.\u201d And He will.\r\n\r\nJani (00:42:55):\r\n\r\nSomething that's helped me in the midst of times when I felt like an utter failure is to ask myself, \u201cWhy does that failure matter so much to me?\u201d There's something about it: part of it is I want my kids in heaven; I want my grandchildren in heaven. I want to run their lives in a way that looks good to me.\r\n\r\n(00:43:21):\r\n\r\nWhen I've gone through hard times in my life, I keep coming back to a verse that God gave me in Psalm 62. Psalm 62:1: \u201cMy soul finds rest in God\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014\"alone.\u201d \r\n\r\nJani: \u2014\"alone.\u201d You know it. And so when I'm struggling with a fear of failure\u2014I'll feel that after today, when I go home and think: \u201cOh, why didn't I say that?\u201d or \u201cWhy did I say that?\u201d\u2014I have to ask myself, \u201cWhat is my soul finding her rest in? Is it being successful on the radio program? Is it\u2026\u201d\u2014whatever it is\u2014\u201cMy soul finds rest in my children following the Lord,\u201d or \u201c\u2026my husband loving me,\u201d\u2014whatever. Those are wonderful things; but I have to ultimately rest in the fact that God is all I need, and He will be enough.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:44:19):\r\n\r\nSo good. \r\n\r\nRay: And in the Magnificat\u2014again, in Luke, Chapter 1, verse 50\u2014Mary did not say: \u201cFor those who deserve Him, His mercy continues from generation to generation\u2014\r\n\r\nJani (00:44:34):\r\n\r\n\u201cFor those who fear Him\u2026.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:44:36):\r\n\r\nYeah, we just believe. Again, you have to be a Christian to be crazy enough to believe this: that God\u2014the gospel is not God's concession to us; it's not God's Plan B\u2014God loves to give to the undeserving. There is something about Him; we're not like that.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:44:57):\r\n\r\nNo.\r\n\r\nRay (00:44:58):\r\n\r\nWe deeply believe in the \u201cPay as you go plan\u201d; right? \u201cThat's how life works.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (00:45:02):\r\n\r\n\u201cEarn it.\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:45:03):\r\n\r\n\u201cEarn it, every inch of it.\u201d And God says, \u201cNo; actually, I have different ground rules. I love to give to the undeserving.\u201d Oh, man; where would we be\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:45:13):\r\n\r\nWhere would we be?\r\n\r\nRay (00:45:14):\r\n\r\n\u2014without the grace of God?\r\n\r\nDave (00:45:17):\r\n\r\nI know you talk about this in The Tenth Generation book. What does blessing look like?\u2014when you think, \u201cmarriage\u201d?\u2014when you think, \u201cfamily\u201d?\u2014when you think, \u201cgenerational\u201d? What does that look like; how does God bless?\r\n\r\nRay (00:45:32):\r\n\r\nBlessing is hope coming into our experience. It's that feeling\/that thought: \u201cOh, I've made so many mistakes. There's so much I don't understand; but maybe, my life really is going somewhere. Maybe, God is with me; and God can take this wreckage and make something beautiful out of it.\u201d That sense of what Jani just said: \u201cMy soul finds rest in God alone. He is my better future; He's going to make this happen\u201d; that's blessing coming down, even before things turn around. Blessing takes the form of hope\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:46:30):\r\n\r\nI like that.\r\n\r\nRay (00:46:30):\r\n\r\n\u2014in the mercy of God.\r\n\r\nJani (00:46:31):\r\n\r\nIt comes down before it spreads out.\r\n\r\nRay (00:46:34):\r\n\r\nThat's good.\r\n\r\nJani (00:46:34):\r\n\r\nIt comes down upon us; and then, starts spreading out.\r\n\r\nDave (00:46:38):\r\n\r\nWhat if\u2014I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit\u2014what if the couple listening\u2014or maybe, even a single person's listening, and wishing, and wondering, and hoping to get married\u2014either\/or; but they feel like it isn't coming down. It isn't turning.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:46:57):\r\n\r\nThey're not seeing God's blessing.\r\n\r\nDave (00:46:59):\r\n\r\n\u201cI'm in a valley. It's been a long dark valley, and there's no end in sight. In fact, I know there isn't going to be a quick turnaround the next three months\/six months. It might be years, if ever.\u201d How do you speak to them? They're just in the dark right now.\r\n\r\nRay (00:47:19):\r\n\r\nWell, who isn't in there?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:47:22):\r\n\r\nIt's so true!\r\n\r\nRay (00:47:23):\r\n\r\nI mean, who isn't living?\r\n\r\nAnn (00:47:25):\r\n\r\nPeople would say you guys aren't.\r\n\r\nRay (00:47:26):\r\n\r\nOh, who isn't living a Plan B life? Back when we were seniors in high school\u2014and we were awesome, and the sky was the limit\u2014and we thought of the future; we painted that picture in our minds. Who actually goes on to live that?\u2014nobody.\r\n\r\nJani (00:47:42):\r\n\r\nBut honey, Dave is thinking of those women who aren't married\u2014and that single woman, who is approaching age 45, where she knows she will not be able to bear children\u2014if she's to be given children, they'll be through adoption. He's asking, \u201cWhat do you say to that person?\u201d They do look at us, honey. Come on; I get to be married to Ray Ortlund. \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, Jani. No, you have to be.\r\n\r\nDave (00:48:10):\r\n\r\nThe great Ray Ortlund is your husband!\r\n\r\nJani (00:48:12):\r\n\r\nHe's mine; he's mine, all mine. \r\n\r\nRay: That\u2019s embarrassing, darling.\r\n\r\nDave: All yours. \r\n\r\nJani: Keep that in [the broadcast]; don't take it out. \r\n\r\nBut isn't that what you're asking, Dave?\r\n\r\nDave (00:48:24):\r\n\r\nI was just hoping Ann would say the same thing about her husband; but obviously, she didn't! \r\n\r\nJani: Now's your chance!\r\n\r\nDave:  And there's the end of that moment. That one\u2019s gone!\r\n\r\nAnn: I am married to the great Dave Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave: Blah, blah, blah.\r\n\r\nJani (00:48:31):\r\n\r\nThe thing is: God orchestrates each individual life with individual sorrows and trials for His glory, for His purpose. He's working Ephesians 1; He's working all things according to the counsel of His will. Whether I'm married to Ray for 60 years, or I'm single, He's working it according to the counsel of His will. So we want to keep pointing your listeners to God.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:06):\r\n\r\nYeah, John Piper wrote that great book, Don't Waste Your Life, that really helped me. I'd like to write a sequel: \u201cHe Will Not Waste Your Life.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn (00:49:18):\r\n\r\nOh, that's good.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:20):\r\n\r\nThe person\/the listener who is thinking, \u201cSomehow, I'm excluded. Somehow, it doesn't work for me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Right, right.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:49:28):\r\n\r\n\u2014or \u201c\u2026for my marriage,\u201d or \u201c\u2026for my family.\u201d \r\n\r\nJani: \u2014 or \u201c\u2026my children.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: \u201cWe're divorced.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: That's what I was talking about.\r\n\r\nAnn: Or \u201cI've been divorced several times.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Many people feel that.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:34):\r\n\r\nYes, yes.\r\n\r\nJani (00:49:35):\r\n\r\nSo teach us.\r\n\r\nRay (00:49:37):\r\n\r\nWe're talking about us now, because we are in the same category. Who else is God going to work with? Who's walking up into the presence of God, thinking, \u201cFrankly, You're lucky to have me on Your team. I'm strengthening Your hand. You're welcome.\u201d\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nThe person who's listening to this, thinking, \u201cGod has passed me by; I'm not in that stream of blessing,\u201d\u2014that is the person most ideally primed to receive God's blessing. I would say to that listener, down at rock bottom:\r\n\r\n(00:50:41):\r\n\r\nI ask you to do what Dave did that night\u2014and what I did in 1988 and so many times\u2014just get down on your knees; hand yourself over to God. Tell Him what you're really thinking. Tell Him what you're really feeling. He welcomes your honest reality. Tell Him of your broken heart and hand yourself over to Him completely, withholding nothing. God promises that your life will make an eternal difference\u2014your life\u2014He will not waste your life.\r\n\r\nDave (00:51:20):\r\n\r\nYou got to write that book. \r\n\r\nAnn: You do. \r\n\r\nYou know what came to my mind, Dave?\u2014as you were sharing that, Ray. I thought of your mom. Dave comes from a family of five children; his parents were divorced. I'm thinking about her, because Dave's dad had multiple affairs; an alcoholic; beat them\u2014horrible. So the older children, Dave was 10, 12, 14 years younger than his siblings.\r\n\r\nDave (00:51:49):\r\n\r\nMy little brother dies of leukemia\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn (00:51:51):\r\n\r\nYeah, that's what I'm saying. \r\n\r\nDave (00:51:52):\r\n\r\n\u2014right after the divorce.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:51:52):\r\n\r\nThey go through divorce because the older sibling's like, \u201cMom, you have to get out of this for your safety.\u201d She divorces; moved to another state to be with her parents. Her youngest son and his brother, Dave, was seven\u2014this boy was five; Craig was five\u2014and died of leukemia six weeks after the divorce. \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, my goodness. \r\n\r\nAnn: You talk about a valley. But the thing that I think about with your mom was her heart for Jesus, her surrender to Jesus. Look what we are doing. She got to see so much of that\u2014of you starting a church, thousands of people attending; a marriage; grandkids\u2014she saw that. But the valley\u2014she didn't do anything but surrender; that's it\u2014that's all she did. But that valley that she walked for years.\r\n\r\nDave (00:52:46):\r\n\r\nYeah; I remember, as a seven-year-old when dad left; and then, teenager and watching mom cling to Jesus. I remember laughing, like, \u201cYou're going to believe in a God that let my little brother die and your husband, my dad, leave? You believe in that Guy?\u201d I mocked it. And then, when I was still in high school, she starts dating a guy, a coach of one of my baseball teams. They decided to get married; I'm going to have a dad. He dies a month before the wedding. She never remarried; she just had tragedy after tragedy. \r\n\r\nHearing Ann, right now, say she got to see the tenth generation come to Jesus. Watching her cling to her Jesus; I found that Jesus later. \r\n\r\nI know what you're feeling if you're\u2014when Ray said, \u201cHe's with you; hang on,\u201d\u2014it's true. He is\u2014you don't feel it; you don't see it\u2014He's right there.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:53:53):\r\n\r\nYou can\u2019t control.\r\n\r\nDave (00:53:53):\r\n\r\nHe said earlier: \u201cHis everlasting arms are your strength.\u201d Cling to Him.\r\n\r\nAnn: Surrender. \r\n\r\nDave (00:54:00):\r\n\r\nHe\u2019s there.\r\n\r\nRay (00:54:01):\r\n\r\nAnd your mom faithfully gave herself away to you.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:54:09):\r\n\r\nYes, she did.\r\n\r\nRay (00:54:09):\r\n\r\nAnd that single person, who's listening, I would say, \u201cFind a faithful church, a Jesus-centered gospel-teaching church. Go give your life away. Take a risk; stick your neck out. Go give your life away. And when you walk into heaven, there's going to be this huge fist-bumping, high-fiving team cheer\u2014massive celebration\u2014as you walk in through the grace of Christ. And people are going to come up with tears in their eyes, and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d \u201cThank you,\u201d \u201cThank you.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave (00:54:50):\r\n\r\nWhat a great\u2014you don't know this\u2014transition. We've got a couple audio tributes from a couple of your kids that they recorded. We're going to play them right now. \r\n\r\nRay: What?!\r\n\r\nJani: What?! Get the Kleenex out; oh! \r\n\r\nDave: It's right there.\r\n\r\nBruce,  which one do we want to play first?\r\n\r\nBruce (00:55:14):\r\n\r\nI've got Dane right here.\r\n\r\nDave (00:55:15):\r\n\r\nOkay. Here's your son, Dane. We just asked him to share a few words with you.\r\n\r\nDane (00:55:21):\r\n\r\nI am immensely thankful for my dad and mom, and I love them with all my heart. Respect them greatly and just revere their lives and their great loves. There are really three loves in their hearts that I have watched\u2014and seen lived out, seem proved and demonstrated\u2014and that have been deposited in me. \r\n\r\nOne is a love for the Lord Jesus Christ as a real person, as an actual Savior and Master\u2014not a theory, not a formula, not a force\u2014but an actual Person who is there caring for them and for me. The second great love in their life is a love for the Bible. I can picture my mom reading under a blanket, down on the couch in the living room, early in the morning with her cup of tea every morning. Whenever I would come down, whatever time it was, mom was there, reading Scripture.\r\n\r\n(00:56:16):\r\n\r\nDad likewise has given his life to the study of the Bible\u2014not just the study of it, but living in light of it and working it out in his life\u2014and I greatly respect that. \r\n\r\nAnd a love for the local church. A love for the Lord Jesus Christ, a love for the Bible, and a love for the church. I cannot imagine or consider living a life myself, or leading my own family and living life, that does not centralize the local church. It's unthinkable to me because of what I saw in Dad and Mom and the way they have given their lives to the local church as they should and as not all Christians do. They've been such a godly example in that way. \r\n\r\nSo with regard to the Lord Jesus, with regard to the Scripture, with regard to the local church, and many other things\u2014but those are the three great loves that they have lived out and given to me\u2014and which I am seeking to pass on to my own five children now with deep gratitude, and love, and respect to them and for them. \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, that's sweet.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:57:32):\r\n\r\nSo good!\r\n\r\nRay (00:57:34):\r\n\r\nWow, you guys. \r\n\r\nGavin: Hey Mom and Dad, I want to take a moment and just say, \u201cThank you for your faithfulness to Christ over the years. I've said this to you many times before, but I can't say it enough. I mean it from the bottom of my heart that the way both of you have served Christ over the years, not just in ministry, but just in who you are and how you relate to people\u2014the ways you think things through, the way you care for people genuinely\u2014just the sincere devotion to Christ that is in both of your hearts has more of an impact than you could possibly know. And the consequences of that rumble on day after day in my life for Esther, for each of our five kids, your faithfulness to God matters. And it's making a difference every single day that will last onto eternity. I think it's far beyond what you know. \r\n\r\n(00:58:16):\r\n\r\n\u201cBecause you've been doing it for so long, you're probably not even noticing it as much as others do; it's just instinctive to you. You think about: \u2018Oh, they need us to babysit the kids; we can do that,\u2019 or \u2018Oh, we're going to speak; we want to encourage them,\u2019\u2014it's just who you are; it's just instinctive. You're probably not even aware of how much of a blessing you're being, because it's habitual. It's just how you function\u2014with a heart of service and love toward others and honoring of Christ. \r\n\r\n\u201cThe difference that that makes for me, for my family, and for so many others is incalculable. And only in heaven will the true measure of it be possible to see. So thank you. You've made my life a joy by being faithful to Christ. You've painted the target for me. I know how to live because I just say, \u2018Okay, I want to follow the Lord and serve the Lord.\u2019 And I've seen a model of that in you. Not that you're perfect\u2014none of us are perfect\u2014but you've been a faithful model of serving Christ. So I just want to say, \u2018Thank you,\u2019 and \u2018I love you both from the bottom of my heart.\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nRay (00:59:26):\r\n\r\nOh gosh, that's so sweet. \r\n\r\nJani: Take me home. \r\n\r\nRay: I think we're done.\r\n\r\nAnn (00:59:35):\r\n\r\nYou guys, that's everything, isn't it? \r\n\r\nRay: Oh, yes. \r\n\r\nJani: Oh, it is; it is.\r\n\r\nAnn: It\u2019s everything.\r\n\r\nJani (00:59:39):\r\n\r\nIt is that your kids love the Lord\u2014everything. Thank you for that! Oh, my goodness!\r\n\r\nAnn (00:59:46):\r\n\r\nWell, this book is so rich. We didn't even get into so many things: \u201cMaking Your Home a Foretaste of Heaven\u201d; there are just so many chapters. There was so much underlined and highlighted. This is a book every parent\/every home should read; because it's inspiring, and it points us back to Jesus. If you're thinking, \u201cWhat is my next step?\u201d\u2014we said it at the beginning\u2014\u201cSurrender\u201d\u2014 every day, it's a re-surrender to God:\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:15):\r\n\r\nAmen.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:16):\r\n\r\n\u2014\"I can't do it. I can't do anything apart from You.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:18):\r\n\r\nAnd after you get off your knees, go to a computer, your phone\u2014whatever\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the show notes. We'll have this book there that you can buy: To the Tenth Generation. You\u2019ll want to get it. \r\n\r\nThank you, guys. Man, what a day.\r\n\r\nJani (01:00:33):\r\n\r\nWhat a privilege to be with you. We thank you.\r\n\r\nRay (01:00:34):\r\n\r\nWe just feel overwhelmed with gratitude to you.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:37):\r\n\r\nYeah, we feel that.\r\n\r\nRay (01:00:38):\r\n\r\nWell, thank you. And our dear listeners, who have allowed us into their day and into their life, we're profoundly grateful. \r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:50):\r\n\r\nHey, thanks for watching. If you liked this episode,\u2014\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:53):\r\n\r\nYou better like it.\r\n\r\nAnn (01:00:53):\r\n\r\n\u2014just hit that \u201cLike\u201d button.\r\n\r\nDave (01:00:55):\r\n\r\nAnd we'd like you to subscribe. All you got to do is go down and hit the \u201cSubscribe\u201d\u2014\r\n\r\nI can't say the word, \u201csubscribe\u201d\u2014hit the \u201cSubscribe\u201d button. I don't think I can say this \r\n\r\nword! \r\n\r\nAnn: I can: \u201csubscribe.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: Look at that! You say it so easily. \u201cSubscribe\u201d; there he goes!\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com                                 \r\n\r\n\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/317460","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=317460"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/312569"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=317460"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=317460"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=317460"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=317460"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=317460"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=317460"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}