{"id":315288,"date":"2025-06-04T03:40:28","date_gmt":"2025-06-04T07:40:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/understanding-the-roots-of-your-childs-addictive-behaviors-dr-adrian-hickmon\/"},"modified":"2025-06-17T10:51:47","modified_gmt":"2025-06-17T14:51:47","slug":"understanding-the-roots-of-your-childs-addictive-behaviors-dr-adrian-hickmon","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-the-roots-of-your-childs-addictive-behaviors-dr-adrian-hickmon\/","title":{"rendered":"Understanding the Roots of Your Child&#8217;s Addictive Behaviors &#8211; Dr. Adrian Hickmon"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>On this FamilyLife Today episode, hosted by Dave and Ann Wilson, we feature a segment from the FamilyLife Blended podcast with Ron Deal and guest Dr. Adrian Hickmon, founder of Capstone Treatment Center in Arkansas. The discussion focuses on parenting children with addictive behaviors, such as drugs, alcohol, or pornography. Dr. Hickmon explains the underlying causes of these behaviors, including trauma, isolation, and disconnection, likening them to a &#8220;magma pool&#8221; beneath a volcano.<\/p>\n<p>He advises parents to find facts, triage the situation, and avoid detaching emotionally, instead emphasizing attachment and healthy boundaries. Ron shares a personal story about his son\u2019s near-fatal alcohol incident, illustrating the balance of moving toward a child with love while setting boundaries. The episode underscores the gospel\u2019s rupture-repair-masterpiece model as a framework for family restoration.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If you have a troubled teen, this episode is for you. Dr. Adrian Hickmon discusses kids\u2019 addictive behaviors, urging parents to attach, set boundaries, and heal pain.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":312569,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/ab4d7974-dee0-4d1f-aafa-b2eb00f6ba67\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:22","filesize":"24.17M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2025-06-04 03:40:28","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2841,2873],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9948,3300],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-315288","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-anger-and-rebellion","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","cwp_profile-adrian-hickmon","cwp_profile-ron-deal","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/315288\/understanding-the-roots-of-your-childs-addictive-behaviors-dr-adrian-hickmon","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/315288\/understanding-the-roots-of-your-childs-addictive-behaviors-dr-adrian-hickmon","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"sybv79TFDR\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-the-roots-of-your-childs-addictive-behaviors-dr-adrian-hickmon\/\">Understanding the Roots of Your Child&#8217;s Addictive Behaviors &#8211; Dr. Adrian Hickmon<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-the-roots-of-your-childs-addictive-behaviors-dr-adrian-hickmon\/embed\/#?secret=sybv79TFDR\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Understanding the Roots of Your Child&#8217;s Addictive Behaviors &#8211; Dr. Adrian Hickmon&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"sybv79TFDR\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["ab4d7974-dee0-4d1f-aafa-b2eb00f6ba67"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/ab4d7974-dee0-4d1f-aafa-b2eb00f6ba67\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:26:22"],"filesize":["24.17M"],"_thumbnail_id":["312569"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-blended-podcast\/142-troubled-teens-addiction-help\/\">Listen to the full FamilyLife Blended Podcast online.<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/capstonewellness.com\/\">Contact Capstone Treatment Center for professional help for you or a loved one .<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.summitonstepfamilies.com\/\">Learn more about the Summit on Stepfamily Ministry.<br \/>\n<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Pod cast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-06-04.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/p>\n<p>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/p>\n<p>Understanding the Roots of Your Child\u2019s Addictive Behaviors<\/p>\n<p>Guests: Ron Deal and Adrian Hickmon<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Understanding the Roots of Your Child\u2019s Addictive Behaviors<\/p>\n<p>(Day 1 of 1)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:June 4, 2025<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:A parent's finest hours comes in their darkest hours. I've seen it play out many, many, many times. I didn't plan\u2014when I said, \u201cI do,\u201d with Joanna\u2014that we would face the things that we face with children, with struggles. I had this brilliant plan: \u201cThis is how I'm going to be this dad: follow what my dad did\u201d; and blah, blah, blah, blah. But when it hits you, it's like that's when you become or show your finest hours as a parent.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:I told you last night I got a text from a friend of mine, a dad whose son has been experimenting with drugs; and as a result, somewhat suicidal. We're talking about: \u201cHow do you respond to that?\u201d I think that's a major question for all parents, who have a son or daughter, who's experimenting with drugs, or alcohol, or porn, or sex; and they don't know what to do. Do they seek out professional help? That's why he reached out to me; he's almost asking, \u201cShould I get help?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann:Well, today we're going to listen to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Ron Deal. FamilyLife Blended is the division of FamilyLife that provides so much training and resources for stepfamilies and the church leaders who serve them. But this conversation really is applicable to all parents; because we all know and love a child, who's turned to addictive behaviors. This podcast unpacks why children do that and what parents can do about it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Ron's guest today is Dr. Adrian Hickmon, founder of the Capstone Treatment Center in [Judsonia], Arkansas, which Ron says is one of the most effective inpatient addiction treatment programs for 14- to 26-year-old young men in the country. Dr. Hickmon trained therapists at the university level for many years and has lectured around the world about the model they developed at Capstone.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:And we're only going to hear a small fraction of this discussion, but you can hear the rest of it by pulling up the Family Life Blended podcast and search for Episode 142.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Okay, let's pick up the conversation after Ron asked Adrian to help parents understand what's going on below the surface when a kid is drinking or doing drugs. Here is Adrian's response.<\/p>\n<p>[FamilyLife Blended Podcast Excerpt]<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:There are multiple different\u2014let's say eruptions\u2014of the volcano from drugs, and alcohol, and self-harm, and pornography, and intensity-based sex, and all these things that are addictive behaviors that are steamrolling America, especially youth. Underneath that, there's a magma pool of trauma of isolation, disconnection, attachment, and capacity, lack of purpose and connection with God.<\/p>\n<p>And then, under that, there's a family context in which both of those battlefronts exist. There are families out there that are a part of the problem, but there are others that are not. The thing to remember on that is every single family is the most important part of the solution, and so that's what we try to bring together, and do work with everybody in the family, because that's how you are able to save and turn the direction of the child who\u2019s in jeopardy.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:I want us to talk today about two audiences. I know we got people watching that fall into both of these camps:<\/p>\n<p>The first camp is people who have a child who is actively drinking, drugging, or something. But also want us to talk to the parents, who are going, \u201cNo, that's not happening with my kids; but I know, and love, and care for somebody whose kids are doing that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or \u201cI just want to prevent my kids from going down that road, so what do I need to know? And how do we kind of build strength and resilience into our children and into our household?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Let's just sort of tackle those one at a time. Let's start with somebody who's listening, and they're in a really rough spot with one of their kids; and they have a sense that something's going on\u2014or maybe, they have clarity that: \u201cYes, their child is drinking, drugging, or doing porn, or something,\u201d\u2014what do they do? How do they think about the problem, if you will; and what would be the first things you would just offer them?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:The first thing that I would say in that: almost every time, there's going to be a difference between what mom and dad think on how big the problem is. So first thing I would say is you got to find the facts to know what you're up against. In the book, The Art of War, Sun Tzu says: \u201cKnow your enemy and know yourself.\u201d If you don't know either one of those, you're in trouble; so finding the facts is first.<\/p>\n<p>I had a man call once who wanted his son to come to Capstone. He was pushing me, like a bulldozer, to accept him. I was asking every question I could to find out: \u201cWhat were we up against?\u201d There was one thing: the man was a pastor, and he had found two empty beer cans in the back of his son's truck. I finally said, \u201cSir, we're not going to take your son; he doesn't need to go here. You're taking a machine gun to a rabbit hunt.\u201d There's a balance in the triage, because that's the point these people are at. You don't take a machine gun to a rabbit hunt or a slingshot to a grizzly bear hunt; you got to balance out the triage with the needs.<\/p>\n<p>So find the facts:<\/p>\n<p>Everything from getting someone to look at your computer. The cell phone privacy is out the window in parenting today\u2014all that stuff about privacy is ridiculous\u2014with all the things that the internet offers.<\/p>\n<p>Drug screens\u2014and it's not just your Walmart drug screen; it's like some of them are expensive\u2014but you find out the facts of it.<\/p>\n<p>And the best you can, find the body of information that is the facts; then, you know what you're up against. That's when it's time to triage.<\/p>\n<p>Triage is just like at a train wreck, if they're in that kind of jeopardy. I always tell parents this: \u201cIf you have any reasonable expectation that your son or daughter can turn the direction away from, what we call, the wasteland towards the promised land, without coming to a place like Capstone, then you don't need to come here. But if you don't have any reasonable expectation that it can change, you need to hurry; because you're playing Russian roulette every day.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So triage and finding the facts would be the first thing.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Okay, so a reasonable expectation: \u201cHow do you know what reasonable is?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Every parent is going to have to follow their gut on that. I think asking questions, calling people, talking is one thing. There's a lot of books to read; there's a lot of different things like that. People call us; and our admissions team, which are all therapists, know what this thing is about. That helps them to figure out what's going on.<\/p>\n<p>But then, talk to the people who\u2014we have on our reference list, and I'm not trying to do a commercial for Capstone\u2014but talk to people, who have been in it; and see what they say. That's the most solid litmus test; because anybody who works at a facility can lie, and embellish, and whatever; but people who have been through it.<\/p>\n<p>There are markers that let you know something is off, and this is the main one. I have worked with more than 3,000 families in this situation. I don't have one that, by the time they came to Capstone\u2014came to me for outpatient therapy or sent their child to another program\u2014what they knew, at that point in time, was more than one fourth of what they knew a few weeks later. The problem is always bigger than you think it is; that's pretty significant thing there. I don't have one exception to that.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:So would it be fair to say to somebody, who's listening right now, and they're thinking, \u201cOkay, I know my kid's doing this, this, and this,\u201d\u2014now, multiply that times four\u2014and that's your real problem.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Yeah, three or four; but again,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ron:It's pretty sobering.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Can I say this? This is going to sound crazy\u2014that is your problem\u2014but it is probably, also, the child's solution. When a teen\/ young adult, and an old adult like me, is struggling with drugs, alcohol, pornography, food\u2014which is probably the one most missed in America\u2014any of these things, you know something underneath is going on with that person. Something's hurting and something's missing\u2014there's a void, and there's a pain\u2014if you don't find that, you're not going to ever solve it. Honestly, once it becomes this level of a problem, it is a \u201csolution\u201d to the problem for the person involved in it; but that \u201csolution\u201d will eventually kill them.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:You're saying that the solution that they're pursuing to their real problems is the drug, or the porn, or the food, or the whatever; and so they're going to keep pursuing that unless the pain is revealed and dealt with.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Yes, they have to. I mean, think of it this way. If you can picture a volcano in your mind, and it blows out the top\u2014with pornography, which is usually first\/ the most common one\u2014and you get a giant rock, and you cap that volcanic tube, no more eruption; no more porn\u2014most people; and honestly, the biomedical model is saying: \u201cHey, this is successful; we've got abstinence.\u201d And then, the magma pool keeps boiling; and it blows out on the side of the mountain for drugs and alcohol. You cap it\u2014the magma pool grows; it blows out on another side\u2014which is video game binging and those kinds of things.<\/p>\n<p>If you can imagine a mountain that's got like four or five rocks capped, where the old volcanoes were erupting. You look at that, and you're like, \u201cOkay, what's the real assessment of that?\u201d There's no relief valve. That looks like success, from a biomedical model; but honestly, that person's closer to suicide than they've ever been; there's no relief. It's almost like that Indiana Jones movie\u2014the first one\u2014when he's trying to steal that thing off with that rock. It's booby trapped, and he's trying to slide the sandbag on it. Didn't work out too good for him in that movie. But it's a simultaneous stopping the \u201csolution\u201d that's killing them while you're healing the reason they need it.<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Only Ron Deal could get a guest to talk about Indiana Jones. It was so; I remember that moment forever.<\/p>\n<p>And by the way, you're listening to FamilyLife Today. We're listening to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Ron Deal, and his guest is Dr. Adrian Hickmon, who's pretty amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:I don't know about you, but I'm already thinking of a family who needs to get connected to Capstone and Dr. Hickmon's program. We'll put the link in the show notes for you to CapstoneWellness.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:And remember: to hear the entire interview, you can pull up the Family Life Blended podcast and listen to Episode 142. They talk a lot about pornography\u2014how that impacts kids and what parents can do if their young adult has an addiction\u2014and more, so don't miss that. Okay, let's get back to the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[FamilyLife Blended Podcast Excerpt]<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Okay, so let's go back and chase the trauma piece. I know you've worked so much with this: \u201cChasing the pain behind what's going on.\u201d So back to the volcano\u2014let me just remind our listeners\u2014if there's an eruption into the escape of porn, drink, drug\u2014whatever it might be\u2014that's indicative of some sort of magma that has been heated up, down below. Am I getting that right?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Let me make sure I'm communicating to you the distinction. You take two boys. They drink a couple beers and feel some euphoria. One of them is like: \u201cOkay, I wondered what that was going to feel like. I might do it again; I might not.\u201d The other one is: \u201cOh, I got to have some more of that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Think of it like this: the degree to which there is an internal anxiety from pain, fear, emptiness is a power factor in the enticement level of those two beers. Let's say that there's someone, who\u2019s on a 0 to 10 scale, at a 6 in pain, and emptiness, and fear of whatever; and the person they're with is at a 2. They both drink those two beers. Well, the one that's at a 6, the enticement level to go back and do it again is 3 times that of the 2 [on the scale]. Make sense?<\/p>\n<p>Would the normal person want to feel the euphoria of alcohol?\u2014okay, yeah. But to get into it\u2014to the point that it is an avoidance pattern from your pain\u2014that's when you see it as a problem. You won't ever see it as a problem when it's that experimentation; and then, you leave it alone; because it'll go away on its own. But when you're noticing it, it does mean that there is a magma pool there of some hurt.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:If somebody is sitting here\u2014going: \u201cI think there's some hurt in my kid,\u201d or \u201c\u2026somebody else's kid that I care about,\u201d\u2014how do you chase that pain? How do you do that in an appropriate way? And what kinds of things might they discover there?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Well, the first thing I would say is what you don't do. The classic model on this is: \u201cDetach and practice tough love.\u201d And honestly\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ron:You don't do that. In other words,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:You don't do that.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:\u2014that's detached; meaning, \u201cEmotionally step away from your kid. Just say: \u2018Knock it off,\u2019 and \u2018You're punished until\u2026\u2019\u201d\u2014the whatever.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Well, it's like we had somebody, who went to an intensive after Capstone. The parents worked really hard\u2014kid did too\u2014late-blooming 15-year-old. The place they went to said: \u201cMake him responsible for his recovery,\u201d like he was a 40-year-old alcoholic. Parents go to Al-Anon\u2014and practice tough love\u2014which, thank God, they did not do; because they had learned better by that point in time. \u201cDetach and practice tough love\u201d is, honestly, one of the dumbest things that's ever come down the pipe. \u201cAttach deeper and practice healthy boundaries,\u201d\u2014that's how you can help your child.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:What does that look like?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:And it is about: One, you just go to the basic message of the gospel. The basic message is a rupture-and-repair model. After the repair, you're better off than before the rupture. That's the whole Ephesians 2:10: we\u2019re the masterpiece once we've been made again.<\/p>\n<p>And so, in a family, not avoiding but engaging in all kinds of different things shows kids how there is always, through the restoration process of rupture and repair, something better on the other side of it. It's connection first. It's relationship first\u2014which you might not have the opportunity to do if you're in that crisis\u2014you may have to do just an absolute boundary: \u201cWe're drawing the line; this is what's fixing to happen\u2026\u201d; and then, work on the relationship because you can't let them die if they're so far down into drugs or whatever.<\/p>\n<p>The idea is: first my son, or my daughter, is doing \u201cX,\u201d \u201cY,\u201d and \u201cZ.\u201d \u201cWhat makes that make sense?\u201d\u2014that's the question\u2014not: \u201cWhat makes it right?\u201d\u2014\u201cgood?\u201d\u2014\"bad?\u201d\u2014\u201cugly?\u201d\u2014\"smart?\u201d\u2014\u201cstupid?\u201d\u2014or anything else. It's: \u201cWhat makes it make sense?\u201d And then, believe there is an answer. But the answer is not one domino that fell over and knocked over the rest in the gym; it is like a jigsaw puzzle picture with multiple pieces.<\/p>\n<p>We've had plenty of boys who came to Capstone. I've had plenty of women whom I've worked within private practice, and they have been forcibly raped\u2014they've gone through parents' divorce and parents' death\u2014those are the top-two traumas for a child. And those are giant reasons; never have I seen it be the only reason. It is always in a choreography of a dozen or so more.<\/p>\n<p>I think the main point is most parents look at it, and think it does not make sense; because: \u201cWe have raised our children not to be like that. They know better. They're loved at home,\u201d\u2014and blah, blah, blah. But this is what I'm promising you: there's always a set of answers to that question. If you don't find them, you don't change things; because that's what has to be addressed in that magma pool. Does that make sense?<\/p>\n<p>Ron:It does. And part of what I'm hearing here is: sometimes, we, as parents, have to go: \u201cYeah, there's something I'm not seeing,\u201d and \u201cI have to be open to finding that.\u201d If I just think, \u201cYeah, there's no reason for them to be doing this; they just shouldn't be,\u201d then I'm not listening. I don't have the right antenna up to even move towards my child and try to hear the pain that's going on with them.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:And here's the deal: no matter how astute and committed parents are, Satan wants inside our families. He's brilliant at sneaking in with the stealth-ness of a virus. I've worked with so many families\u2014I have my own family, where my own children have been hurt by different things\u2014it's like I don't know of anybody who grows up, and becomes an adult, who did not go through things that could take them out.<\/p>\n<p>If it weren't for the parents, doing the best job that could be done, they would all be smashed to the point that they can't recover. It's like none of us are immune to that. Nobody can create that kind of fort to keep the bad guys out, if that makes sense to you. So Number One: \u201cIf you are seeing it\u2014you something's off\u2014now, the deal is: \u2018Find out what it is underneath.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ron:That's so good because we all need to hear that, as parents. We all want to be that formidable wall that keeps our kids from having to experience anything, or go through any of this, or make these kinds of choices. I appreciate you saying that; because maybe, another way to say it is: \u201cWe're not all to blame,\u201d and \u201cDon't get into that blame game.\u201d The point is: find out; explore; listen; help put some of the pieces together\u2014if only for you; but maybe, even with and for your child\u2014at least, that's a step towards understanding what that big magma buildup is all about.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Yeah, I guess because I've worked with so many kids who have been sexually abused\u2014I've been sexually abused myself when I was four, not near as severely as many guys at Capstone\u2014but know what a big \u201cT\u201d Trauma it is; the fear of that is probably the greatest fear that parents have. And the thing is: if somebody wants to infiltrate your family, they're probably going to eventually get there if they want it bad enough. The point is: a parent's finest hours are not just in the protection in that kind of scenario; honestly, a parent's finest hours comes in their darkest hours. I've seen it play out many, many, many times.<\/p>\n<p>I didn't plan\u2014when I said, \u201cI do,\u201d with Joanna\u2014that we would face the things that we face with her health, with children, with struggles. I had this brilliant plan\u2014football coach lays out the plan\u2014\u201cThis is how I'm going to be this dad: follow what my dad did\u201d; and blah, blah, blah, blah. But when it hits you, it's like that's when you become or show your finest hours as a parent. On the other side of it, something's better than there was before it started.<\/p>\n<p>The hope of this deal\u2014and honestly, it's just the pattern of the gospel\u2014rupture, repair, and masterpiece. As a dad, when people come\u2014and I'm working with at Capstone\u2014my stomach falls out my shoes; I shed tears; it hurts. But as a therapist, I'm not unconfident at all because of this: \u201cThe gospel says, \u2018Rupture; repair; masterpiece.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p>Dave:We've been listening to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Dr. Adrian Hickmon. Ron Deal, the host of that podcast, now joins us in the studio. Ron, I'll tell you what: I've been preaching for over 30 years; I have actually never heard that phrase\u2014rupture, repair, and masterpiece, which is so beautiful\u2014applied to the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:It really captures and summarizes well what God has done for us. We ruptured it; we broke the relationship. He spent an awful lot of time repairing and creating a way for us to move back towards Him for us to have strong relationship. And then, He didn't stop there; His grace makes us a masterpiece. Ephesians 2:10 [paraphrase]: \u201cWe're God's masterpiece, prepared to do good works, that He has set before us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It's an amazing story, when you stop and you think about that\u2014of course, Adrian's point is parents, family members, churches\u2014who rally around kids, who are having a hard time in a tough place. We need to have that same mentality: \u201cThis can be a story of rupture and repair; and then, masterpiece.\u201d We shouldn't give up.<\/p>\n<p>Did you catch that part where we talked about one of the mistakes we make is detaching from our kids\u2014sort of emotionally pulling back; and then, sort of just saying, \u201cTough love; get it right, kid,\u201d\u2014all that does is move away from our children, and decrease our influence, and increase their pain. What we need to do is: we need to move toward them\u2014attach\u2014he said, \u201cGet closer; come in tighter,\u201d and \u201cAt the same time, have some good boundaries.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Let me tell you a little story. We've talked many times about how Nan and I lost one of our children, Connor, when he was 12 years of age. Fast forward, my youngest son, who was younger than Connor. Now, when he was a young adult in college, Nan and I get a phone call one day, early one morning; and it goes like, \u201cThis is the Fayetteville Hospital. Your son is in our ER. He has been drinking heavily, and we're not sure he is going to survive the alcohol. You need to get here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Nan and I drove two and a half hours, not knowing if we'd lost another child. Now, I got every emotion in the book going on inside of me on that drive\u2014everything from scared to death: \u201cLord, please save him,\u201d \u201cI just want to hug him,\u201d \u201cI hope he survives,\u201d \u201cIf he does survive, I think I'm going to kill him,\u201d\u2014all that stuff that you go through.<\/p>\n<p>Somewhere in there, there is this really strong temptation to detach, to say\u2014\u201cThis hurts way too bad,\u201d \u201cI am way too angry. I can't believe he did this to himself and that he would put us through this pain,\u201d\u2014and so you want to pull back. That is the wrong move, to say, \u201cI'm removing myself from you. I'm not going to talk to you; I'm mad. I'm just going to stay mad,\u201d and \u201cYou better get yourself figured out,\u201d\u2014that detach is about our pain; it's about preserving us\u2014but unfortunately, all it does is keep our child in a worse place, even more in the rupture.<\/p>\n<p>The repair is something we helped to lead with by moving toward. Nan and I talked about it a lot\u2014and we were still very, very angry\u2014but we had to try to contain that. When we got there, he was okay; he did survive. We took him home. There was a lot of car time, where I felt like unloading on him over, and over, and over again; but did not.<\/p>\n<p>Now, we also made it very clear\u2014this is the healthy boundaries part\u2014we also made it very clear to him what we were going to do, going forward. You can't control your young adult; you can't tell them what they're going to do. But I could tell him what I was going to do regarding school\u2014and paying for stuff, and cars, and things that were all under my charge\u2014and he had choices that he could make. That's the healthy boundaries part: \u201cI'm not telling you what you got to do, but I'm going to tell you what I'm going to do. You can decide whether you come along with that or whether you just fend for yourself. Those are your choices.\u201d That's that delicate balance of moving toward, connecting heart: \u201cI'm with you; I love you. We're not leaving. However, here's where we're going to do this,\u201d and \u201cHere's what you can expect from us.\u201d There's a delicate balance in there, but there's something really powerful about having moments of repair that ultimately start a pathway towards changing this kid's life.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:So Ron, did it work? Give us the update. That was quite a while ago.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:That was a change moment, I think, for him. It was a long road; he had to make some hard decisions about friends, and how he was going to spend his time, and all kinds of things. But thankfully, looking back, I would say experimentation with drinking didn't become something bigger than that.<\/p>\n<p>But let me just say, \u201cI know there's somebody listening right now, and you're in the middle of this. It just doesn't feel like there's a lot of hope. Do your part. If you got questions about whether you need help: your kid needs help. That's what Capstone and organizations like that are for\u2014call them\u2014ask\/talk to somebody. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend like this is not a big deal; it is a big deal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Yeah, Ron; that was a powerful, powerful episode conversation. I would agree: \u201cReach out to Capstone.\u201d We've got a link in our show notes; and hopefully, that's your next step.<\/p>\n<p>Ron, while we have you here, give us an update on Family Life Blended.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Well, our Summit on Stepfamily Ministry, that happens every fall, is coming up soon. We would love for people to join, even if you're not sure you need this. If you're a lay leader\u2014you help with marriage ministry or parent education\u2014this is a seminar for you. Two days, in person; we would love to have you join us. The Summit on Stepfamily Ministry: go to FamilyLife.com\/Blended to get all the details.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Thanks, Ron.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife.com<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1750171995:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_f3e99178691bd5668999ed195426d309ed756fa9":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_f3e99178691bd5668999ed195426d309ed756fa9":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:110:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] Understanding the Roots of Your Child's Addictive Behaviors - Dr. Adrian Hickmon\";s:12:\"show_subject\";s:2:\"no\";s:6:\"widget\";i:0;s:14:\"block_template\";N;s:19:\"block_template_part\";N;s:2:\"id\";i:315288;s:18:\"submit_button_text\";s:6:\"Submit\";s:14:\"customThankyou\";s:0:\"\";s:21:\"customThankyouHeading\";s:26:\"Your message has been 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you have a troubled teen, this episode is for you. Dr. Adrian Hickmon discusses kids\u2019 addictive behaviors, urging parents to attach, set boundaries, and heal pain.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-blended-podcast\/142-troubled-teens-addiction-help\/\">Listen to the full FamilyLife Blended Podcast online.<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/capstonewellness.com\/\">Contact Capstone Treatment Center for professional help for you or a loved one .<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.summitonstepfamilies.com\/\">Learn more about the Summit on Stepfamily Ministry.<br \/>\n<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Pod cast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-06-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/p>\n<p>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/p>\n<p>Understanding the Roots of Your Child\u2019s Addictive Behaviors<\/p>\n<p>Guests: Ron Deal and Adrian Hickmon<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Understanding the Roots of Your Child\u2019s Addictive Behaviors<\/p>\n<p>(Day 1 of 1)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:June 4, 2025<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:A parent's finest hours comes in their darkest hours. I've seen it play out many, many, many times. I didn't plan\u2014when I said, \u201cI do,\u201d with Joanna\u2014that we would face the things that we face with children, with struggles. I had this brilliant plan: \u201cThis is how I'm going to be this dad: follow what my dad did\u201d; and blah, blah, blah, blah. But when it hits you, it's like that's when you become or show your finest hours as a parent.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:I told you last night I got a text from a friend of mine, a dad whose son has been experimenting with drugs; and as a result, somewhat suicidal. We're talking about: \u201cHow do you respond to that?\u201d I think that's a major question for all parents, who have a son or daughter, who's experimenting with drugs, or alcohol, or porn, or sex; and they don't know what to do. Do they seek out professional help? That's why he reached out to me; he's almost asking, \u201cShould I get help?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann:Well, today we're going to listen to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Ron Deal. FamilyLife Blended is the division of FamilyLife that provides so much training and resources for stepfamilies and the church leaders who serve them. But this conversation really is applicable to all parents; because we all know and love a child, who's turned to addictive behaviors. This podcast unpacks why children do that and what parents can do about it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Ron's guest today is Dr. Adrian Hickmon, founder of the Capstone Treatment Center in [Judsonia], Arkansas, which Ron says is one of the most effective inpatient addiction treatment programs for 14- to 26-year-old young men in the country. Dr. Hickmon trained therapists at the university level for many years and has lectured around the world about the model they developed at Capstone.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:And we're only going to hear a small fraction of this discussion, but you can hear the rest of it by pulling up the Family Life Blended podcast and search for Episode 142.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Okay, let's pick up the conversation after Ron asked Adrian to help parents understand what's going on below the surface when a kid is drinking or doing drugs. Here is Adrian's response.<\/p>\n<p>[FamilyLife Blended Podcast Excerpt]<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:There are multiple different\u2014let's say eruptions\u2014of the volcano from drugs, and alcohol, and self-harm, and pornography, and intensity-based sex, and all these things that are addictive behaviors that are steamrolling America, especially youth. Underneath that, there's a magma pool of trauma of isolation, disconnection, attachment, and capacity, lack of purpose and connection with God.<\/p>\n<p>And then, under that, there's a family context in which both of those battlefronts exist. There are families out there that are a part of the problem, but there are others that are not. The thing to remember on that is every single family is the most important part of the solution, and so that's what we try to bring together, and do work with everybody in the family, because that's how you are able to save and turn the direction of the child who\u2019s in jeopardy.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:I want us to talk today about two audiences. I know we got people watching that fall into both of these camps:<\/p>\n<p>The first camp is people who have a child who is actively drinking, drugging, or something. But also want us to talk to the parents, who are going, \u201cNo, that's not happening with my kids; but I know, and love, and care for somebody whose kids are doing that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or \u201cI just want to prevent my kids from going down that road, so what do I need to know? And how do we kind of build strength and resilience into our children and into our household?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Let's just sort of tackle those one at a time. Let's start with somebody who's listening, and they're in a really rough spot with one of their kids; and they have a sense that something's going on\u2014or maybe, they have clarity that: \u201cYes, their child is drinking, drugging, or doing porn, or something,\u201d\u2014what do they do? How do they think about the problem, if you will; and what would be the first things you would just offer them?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:The first thing that I would say in that: almost every time, there's going to be a difference between what mom and dad think on how big the problem is. So first thing I would say is you got to find the facts to know what you're up against. In the book, The Art of War, Sun Tzu says: \u201cKnow your enemy and know yourself.\u201d If you don't know either one of those, you're in trouble; so finding the facts is first.<\/p>\n<p>I had a man call once who wanted his son to come to Capstone. He was pushing me, like a bulldozer, to accept him. I was asking every question I could to find out: \u201cWhat were we up against?\u201d There was one thing: the man was a pastor, and he had found two empty beer cans in the back of his son's truck. I finally said, \u201cSir, we're not going to take your son; he doesn't need to go here. You're taking a machine gun to a rabbit hunt.\u201d There's a balance in the triage, because that's the point these people are at. You don't take a machine gun to a rabbit hunt or a slingshot to a grizzly bear hunt; you got to balance out the triage with the needs.<\/p>\n<p>So find the facts:<\/p>\n<p>Everything from getting someone to look at your computer. The cell phone privacy is out the window in parenting today\u2014all that stuff about privacy is ridiculous\u2014with all the things that the internet offers.<\/p>\n<p>Drug screens\u2014and it's not just your Walmart drug screen; it's like some of them are expensive\u2014but you find out the facts of it.<\/p>\n<p>And the best you can, find the body of information that is the facts; then, you know what you're up against. That's when it's time to triage.<\/p>\n<p>Triage is just like at a train wreck, if they're in that kind of jeopardy. I always tell parents this: \u201cIf you have any reasonable expectation that your son or daughter can turn the direction away from, what we call, the wasteland towards the promised land, without coming to a place like Capstone, then you don't need to come here. But if you don't have any reasonable expectation that it can change, you need to hurry; because you're playing Russian roulette every day.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So triage and finding the facts would be the first thing.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Okay, so a reasonable expectation: \u201cHow do you know what reasonable is?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Every parent is going to have to follow their gut on that. I think asking questions, calling people, talking is one thing. There's a lot of books to read; there's a lot of different things like that. People call us; and our admissions team, which are all therapists, know what this thing is about. That helps them to figure out what's going on.<\/p>\n<p>But then, talk to the people who\u2014we have on our reference list, and I'm not trying to do a commercial for Capstone\u2014but talk to people, who have been in it; and see what they say. That's the most solid litmus test; because anybody who works at a facility can lie, and embellish, and whatever; but people who have been through it.<\/p>\n<p>There are markers that let you know something is off, and this is the main one. I have worked with more than 3,000 families in this situation. I don't have one that, by the time they came to Capstone\u2014came to me for outpatient therapy or sent their child to another program\u2014what they knew, at that point in time, was more than one fourth of what they knew a few weeks later. The problem is always bigger than you think it is; that's pretty significant thing there. I don't have one exception to that.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:So would it be fair to say to somebody, who's listening right now, and they're thinking, \u201cOkay, I know my kid's doing this, this, and this,\u201d\u2014now, multiply that times four\u2014and that's your real problem.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Yeah, three or four; but again,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ron:It's pretty sobering.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Can I say this? This is going to sound crazy\u2014that is your problem\u2014but it is probably, also, the child's solution. When a teen\/ young adult, and an old adult like me, is struggling with drugs, alcohol, pornography, food\u2014which is probably the one most missed in America\u2014any of these things, you know something underneath is going on with that person. Something's hurting and something's missing\u2014there's a void, and there's a pain\u2014if you don't find that, you're not going to ever solve it. Honestly, once it becomes this level of a problem, it is a \u201csolution\u201d to the problem for the person involved in it; but that \u201csolution\u201d will eventually kill them.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:You're saying that the solution that they're pursuing to their real problems is the drug, or the porn, or the food, or the whatever; and so they're going to keep pursuing that unless the pain is revealed and dealt with.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Yes, they have to. I mean, think of it this way. If you can picture a volcano in your mind, and it blows out the top\u2014with pornography, which is usually first\/ the most common one\u2014and you get a giant rock, and you cap that volcanic tube, no more eruption; no more porn\u2014most people; and honestly, the biomedical model is saying: \u201cHey, this is successful; we've got abstinence.\u201d And then, the magma pool keeps boiling; and it blows out on the side of the mountain for drugs and alcohol. You cap it\u2014the magma pool grows; it blows out on another side\u2014which is video game binging and those kinds of things.<\/p>\n<p>If you can imagine a mountain that's got like four or five rocks capped, where the old volcanoes were erupting. You look at that, and you're like, \u201cOkay, what's the real assessment of that?\u201d There's no relief valve. That looks like success, from a biomedical model; but honestly, that person's closer to suicide than they've ever been; there's no relief. It's almost like that Indiana Jones movie\u2014the first one\u2014when he's trying to steal that thing off with that rock. It's booby trapped, and he's trying to slide the sandbag on it. Didn't work out too good for him in that movie. But it's a simultaneous stopping the \u201csolution\u201d that's killing them while you're healing the reason they need it.<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Only Ron Deal could get a guest to talk about Indiana Jones. It was so; I remember that moment forever.<\/p>\n<p>And by the way, you're listening to FamilyLife Today. We're listening to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Ron Deal, and his guest is Dr. Adrian Hickmon, who's pretty amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:I don't know about you, but I'm already thinking of a family who needs to get connected to Capstone and Dr. Hickmon's program. We'll put the link in the show notes for you to CapstoneWellness.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:And remember: to hear the entire interview, you can pull up the Family Life Blended podcast and listen to Episode 142. They talk a lot about pornography\u2014how that impacts kids and what parents can do if their young adult has an addiction\u2014and more, so don't miss that. Okay, let's get back to the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[FamilyLife Blended Podcast Excerpt]<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Okay, so let's go back and chase the trauma piece. I know you've worked so much with this: \u201cChasing the pain behind what's going on.\u201d So back to the volcano\u2014let me just remind our listeners\u2014if there's an eruption into the escape of porn, drink, drug\u2014whatever it might be\u2014that's indicative of some sort of magma that has been heated up, down below. Am I getting that right?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Let me make sure I'm communicating to you the distinction. You take two boys. They drink a couple beers and feel some euphoria. One of them is like: \u201cOkay, I wondered what that was going to feel like. I might do it again; I might not.\u201d The other one is: \u201cOh, I got to have some more of that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Think of it like this: the degree to which there is an internal anxiety from pain, fear, emptiness is a power factor in the enticement level of those two beers. Let's say that there's someone, who\u2019s on a 0 to 10 scale, at a 6 in pain, and emptiness, and fear of whatever; and the person they're with is at a 2. They both drink those two beers. Well, the one that's at a 6, the enticement level to go back and do it again is 3 times that of the 2 [on the scale]. Make sense?<\/p>\n<p>Would the normal person want to feel the euphoria of alcohol?\u2014okay, yeah. But to get into it\u2014to the point that it is an avoidance pattern from your pain\u2014that's when you see it as a problem. You won't ever see it as a problem when it's that experimentation; and then, you leave it alone; because it'll go away on its own. But when you're noticing it, it does mean that there is a magma pool there of some hurt.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:If somebody is sitting here\u2014going: \u201cI think there's some hurt in my kid,\u201d or \u201c\u2026somebody else's kid that I care about,\u201d\u2014how do you chase that pain? How do you do that in an appropriate way? And what kinds of things might they discover there?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Well, the first thing I would say is what you don't do. The classic model on this is: \u201cDetach and practice tough love.\u201d And honestly\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ron:You don't do that. In other words,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:You don't do that.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:\u2014that's detached; meaning, \u201cEmotionally step away from your kid. Just say: \u2018Knock it off,\u2019 and \u2018You're punished until\u2026\u2019\u201d\u2014the whatever.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Well, it's like we had somebody, who went to an intensive after Capstone. The parents worked really hard\u2014kid did too\u2014late-blooming 15-year-old. The place they went to said: \u201cMake him responsible for his recovery,\u201d like he was a 40-year-old alcoholic. Parents go to Al-Anon\u2014and practice tough love\u2014which, thank God, they did not do; because they had learned better by that point in time. \u201cDetach and practice tough love\u201d is, honestly, one of the dumbest things that's ever come down the pipe. \u201cAttach deeper and practice healthy boundaries,\u201d\u2014that's how you can help your child.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:What does that look like?<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:And it is about: One, you just go to the basic message of the gospel. The basic message is a rupture-and-repair model. After the repair, you're better off than before the rupture. That's the whole Ephesians 2:10: we\u2019re the masterpiece once we've been made again.<\/p>\n<p>And so, in a family, not avoiding but engaging in all kinds of different things shows kids how there is always, through the restoration process of rupture and repair, something better on the other side of it. It's connection first. It's relationship first\u2014which you might not have the opportunity to do if you're in that crisis\u2014you may have to do just an absolute boundary: \u201cWe're drawing the line; this is what's fixing to happen\u2026\u201d; and then, work on the relationship because you can't let them die if they're so far down into drugs or whatever.<\/p>\n<p>The idea is: first my son, or my daughter, is doing \u201cX,\u201d \u201cY,\u201d and \u201cZ.\u201d \u201cWhat makes that make sense?\u201d\u2014that's the question\u2014not: \u201cWhat makes it right?\u201d\u2014\u201cgood?\u201d\u2014\"bad?\u201d\u2014\u201cugly?\u201d\u2014\"smart?\u201d\u2014\u201cstupid?\u201d\u2014or anything else. It's: \u201cWhat makes it make sense?\u201d And then, believe there is an answer. But the answer is not one domino that fell over and knocked over the rest in the gym; it is like a jigsaw puzzle picture with multiple pieces.<\/p>\n<p>We've had plenty of boys who came to Capstone. I've had plenty of women whom I've worked within private practice, and they have been forcibly raped\u2014they've gone through parents' divorce and parents' death\u2014those are the top-two traumas for a child. And those are giant reasons; never have I seen it be the only reason. It is always in a choreography of a dozen or so more.<\/p>\n<p>I think the main point is most parents look at it, and think it does not make sense; because: \u201cWe have raised our children not to be like that. They know better. They're loved at home,\u201d\u2014and blah, blah, blah. But this is what I'm promising you: there's always a set of answers to that question. If you don't find them, you don't change things; because that's what has to be addressed in that magma pool. Does that make sense?<\/p>\n<p>Ron:It does. And part of what I'm hearing here is: sometimes, we, as parents, have to go: \u201cYeah, there's something I'm not seeing,\u201d and \u201cI have to be open to finding that.\u201d If I just think, \u201cYeah, there's no reason for them to be doing this; they just shouldn't be,\u201d then I'm not listening. I don't have the right antenna up to even move towards my child and try to hear the pain that's going on with them.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:And here's the deal: no matter how astute and committed parents are, Satan wants inside our families. He's brilliant at sneaking in with the stealth-ness of a virus. I've worked with so many families\u2014I have my own family, where my own children have been hurt by different things\u2014it's like I don't know of anybody who grows up, and becomes an adult, who did not go through things that could take them out.<\/p>\n<p>If it weren't for the parents, doing the best job that could be done, they would all be smashed to the point that they can't recover. It's like none of us are immune to that. Nobody can create that kind of fort to keep the bad guys out, if that makes sense to you. So Number One: \u201cIf you are seeing it\u2014you something's off\u2014now, the deal is: \u2018Find out what it is underneath.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ron:That's so good because we all need to hear that, as parents. We all want to be that formidable wall that keeps our kids from having to experience anything, or go through any of this, or make these kinds of choices. I appreciate you saying that; because maybe, another way to say it is: \u201cWe're not all to blame,\u201d and \u201cDon't get into that blame game.\u201d The point is: find out; explore; listen; help put some of the pieces together\u2014if only for you; but maybe, even with and for your child\u2014at least, that's a step towards understanding what that big magma buildup is all about.<\/p>\n<p>Adrian:Yeah, I guess because I've worked with so many kids who have been sexually abused\u2014I've been sexually abused myself when I was four, not near as severely as many guys at Capstone\u2014but know what a big \u201cT\u201d Trauma it is; the fear of that is probably the greatest fear that parents have. And the thing is: if somebody wants to infiltrate your family, they're probably going to eventually get there if they want it bad enough. The point is: a parent's finest hours are not just in the protection in that kind of scenario; honestly, a parent's finest hours comes in their darkest hours. I've seen it play out many, many, many times.<\/p>\n<p>I didn't plan\u2014when I said, \u201cI do,\u201d with Joanna\u2014that we would face the things that we face with her health, with children, with struggles. I had this brilliant plan\u2014football coach lays out the plan\u2014\u201cThis is how I'm going to be this dad: follow what my dad did\u201d; and blah, blah, blah, blah. But when it hits you, it's like that's when you become or show your finest hours as a parent. On the other side of it, something's better than there was before it started.<\/p>\n<p>The hope of this deal\u2014and honestly, it's just the pattern of the gospel\u2014rupture, repair, and masterpiece. As a dad, when people come\u2014and I'm working with at Capstone\u2014my stomach falls out my shoes; I shed tears; it hurts. But as a therapist, I'm not unconfident at all because of this: \u201cThe gospel says, \u2018Rupture; repair; masterpiece.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p>Dave:We've been listening to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Dr. Adrian Hickmon. Ron Deal, the host of that podcast, now joins us in the studio. Ron, I'll tell you what: I've been preaching for over 30 years; I have actually never heard that phrase\u2014rupture, repair, and masterpiece, which is so beautiful\u2014applied to the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:It really captures and summarizes well what God has done for us. We ruptured it; we broke the relationship. He spent an awful lot of time repairing and creating a way for us to move back towards Him for us to have strong relationship. And then, He didn't stop there; His grace makes us a masterpiece. Ephesians 2:10 [paraphrase]: \u201cWe're God's masterpiece, prepared to do good works, that He has set before us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It's an amazing story, when you stop and you think about that\u2014of course, Adrian's point is parents, family members, churches\u2014who rally around kids, who are having a hard time in a tough place. We need to have that same mentality: \u201cThis can be a story of rupture and repair; and then, masterpiece.\u201d We shouldn't give up.<\/p>\n<p>Did you catch that part where we talked about one of the mistakes we make is detaching from our kids\u2014sort of emotionally pulling back; and then, sort of just saying, \u201cTough love; get it right, kid,\u201d\u2014all that does is move away from our children, and decrease our influence, and increase their pain. What we need to do is: we need to move toward them\u2014attach\u2014he said, \u201cGet closer; come in tighter,\u201d and \u201cAt the same time, have some good boundaries.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Let me tell you a little story. We've talked many times about how Nan and I lost one of our children, Connor, when he was 12 years of age. Fast forward, my youngest son, who was younger than Connor. Now, when he was a young adult in college, Nan and I get a phone call one day, early one morning; and it goes like, \u201cThis is the Fayetteville Hospital. Your son is in our ER. He has been drinking heavily, and we're not sure he is going to survive the alcohol. You need to get here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Nan and I drove two and a half hours, not knowing if we'd lost another child. Now, I got every emotion in the book going on inside of me on that drive\u2014everything from scared to death: \u201cLord, please save him,\u201d \u201cI just want to hug him,\u201d \u201cI hope he survives,\u201d \u201cIf he does survive, I think I'm going to kill him,\u201d\u2014all that stuff that you go through.<\/p>\n<p>Somewhere in there, there is this really strong temptation to detach, to say\u2014\u201cThis hurts way too bad,\u201d \u201cI am way too angry. I can't believe he did this to himself and that he would put us through this pain,\u201d\u2014and so you want to pull back. That is the wrong move, to say, \u201cI'm removing myself from you. I'm not going to talk to you; I'm mad. I'm just going to stay mad,\u201d and \u201cYou better get yourself figured out,\u201d\u2014that detach is about our pain; it's about preserving us\u2014but unfortunately, all it does is keep our child in a worse place, even more in the rupture.<\/p>\n<p>The repair is something we helped to lead with by moving toward. Nan and I talked about it a lot\u2014and we were still very, very angry\u2014but we had to try to contain that. When we got there, he was okay; he did survive. We took him home. There was a lot of car time, where I felt like unloading on him over, and over, and over again; but did not.<\/p>\n<p>Now, we also made it very clear\u2014this is the healthy boundaries part\u2014we also made it very clear to him what we were going to do, going forward. You can't control your young adult; you can't tell them what they're going to do. But I could tell him what I was going to do regarding school\u2014and paying for stuff, and cars, and things that were all under my charge\u2014and he had choices that he could make. That's the healthy boundaries part: \u201cI'm not telling you what you got to do, but I'm going to tell you what I'm going to do. You can decide whether you come along with that or whether you just fend for yourself. Those are your choices.\u201d That's that delicate balance of moving toward, connecting heart: \u201cI'm with you; I love you. We're not leaving. However, here's where we're going to do this,\u201d and \u201cHere's what you can expect from us.\u201d There's a delicate balance in there, but there's something really powerful about having moments of repair that ultimately start a pathway towards changing this kid's life.<\/p>\n<p>Ann:So Ron, did it work? Give us the update. That was quite a while ago.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:That was a change moment, I think, for him. It was a long road; he had to make some hard decisions about friends, and how he was going to spend his time, and all kinds of things. But thankfully, looking back, I would say experimentation with drinking didn't become something bigger than that.<\/p>\n<p>But let me just say, \u201cI know there's somebody listening right now, and you're in the middle of this. It just doesn't feel like there's a lot of hope. Do your part. If you got questions about whether you need help: your kid needs help. That's what Capstone and organizations like that are for\u2014call them\u2014ask\/talk to somebody. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend like this is not a big deal; it is a big deal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Yeah, Ron; that was a powerful, powerful episode conversation. I would agree: \u201cReach out to Capstone.\u201d We've got a link in our show notes; and hopefully, that's your next step.<\/p>\n<p>Ron, while we have you here, give us an update on Family Life Blended.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Well, our Summit on Stepfamily Ministry, that happens every fall, is coming up soon. We would love for people to join, even if you're not sure you need this. If you're a lay leader\u2014you help with marriage ministry or parent education\u2014this is a seminar for you. Two days, in person; we would love to have you join us. The Summit on Stepfamily Ministry: go to FamilyLife.com\/Blended to get all the details.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:Thanks, Ron.<\/p>\n<p>Ron:Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. 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