{"id":315102,"date":"2025-05-27T03:33:31","date_gmt":"2025-05-27T07:33:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/emotional-tools-your-son-can-build-on-for-life-david-thomas-2\/"},"modified":"2025-06-17T10:37:59","modified_gmt":"2025-06-17T14:37:59","slug":"emotional-tools-your-son-can-build-on-for-life-david-thomas-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/emotional-tools-your-son-can-build-on-for-life-david-thomas-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Emotional Tools Your Son Can Build On for Life &#8211; David Thomas"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What emotional skills does your son need? Counselor David Thomas sheds light on common emotional struggles, including anger, anxiety, and depression. Find practical ways you can help your son be resourceful, aware, resilient, and empathetic\u2014breaking patterns of dysfunction and embracing maturity for life.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What emotional skills does your son need? Counselor David Thomas sheds light on common struggles and ways to help your son embrace emotional maturity.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":312569,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/b4b9dc7d-5ccf-4fea-abfc-b2dd01067013\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:47","filesize":"25.48M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2025-05-27 03:33:31","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2850,2835],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8658],"cwp_profile":[9072],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-315102","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character-development","category-raising-boys","podcast_series-raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas","cwp_profile-david-thomas","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/315102\/emotional-tools-your-son-can-build-on-for-life-david-thomas-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/315102\/emotional-tools-your-son-can-build-on-for-life-david-thomas-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Qu3ddfECb9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/emotional-tools-your-son-can-build-on-for-life-david-thomas-2\/\">Emotional Tools Your Son Can Build On for Life &#8211; David Thomas<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/emotional-tools-your-son-can-build-on-for-life-david-thomas-2\/embed\/#?secret=Qu3ddfECb9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Emotional Tools Your Son Can Build On for Life &#8211; David Thomas&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Qu3ddfECb9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What emotional skills does your son need? Counselor David Thomas sheds light on common struggles and ways to help your son embrace emotional maturity.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Learn more about David and his books at his website: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/\">raisingboysandgirls.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Every donation to FamilyLife in May will be matched. <a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/may-2025\/?cru_source=D0002408AT&amp;cru_medium=podcast&amp;cru_campaign=May2025\">Donate today on our website<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-05-27.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/p>\n<p>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/p>\n<p>Emotional Tools Your Son Can Build On for Life<\/p>\n<p>Guest:David Thomas<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Raising Emotionally Healthy Boys (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:May 27, 2025<\/p>\n<p>David: Somewhere around nine to ten, boys begin to channel all primary emotions\u2014fear, anger, sadness, disappointment\u2014into one emotion, and that one emotion is anger.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the<\/p>\n<p>relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So we discovered yesterday on the program that, when you married me, you married an adolescent boy. [Laughter] How did you feel about learning that? Of course, here\u2019s the thing. I think you already knew it. I just learned yesterday: \u201cWow! I was not just immature; I was like an adolescent in my early 20s.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Hon, I thought you were amazing in every way.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You were\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I never thought you were immature\u2014it was later\u2014like ten years later. I'm just<\/p>\n<p>kidding.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So I got immature as I grew up instead of mature.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No, I never thought that. It was an interesting conversation though.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:No, I'm just bringing it up because we have David Thomas back in the studio with us, who's a therapist and a counselor in Nashville. He enlightened me to some things about men and boys. David, welcome back.<\/p>\n<p>David: Thank you for having me back. I was with a mom recently, to whom I said, \u201cHow<\/p>\n<p>many sons do you have?\u201d And she said, \u201cDoes my husband count?\u201d She wanted to<\/p>\n<p>know exactly how many males she was raising that counted in that number. I\u2019m right<\/p>\n<p>there with you. We discovered that I, too, was an adolescent when I got married; so we<\/p>\n<p>share that in common. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019re laughing about it because you wrote this amazing book. We have three sons and now grandkids, so we thought, \u201cWe have to pass this on.\u201d We\u2019ve been handing this out to everybody: Raising Emotionally Strong Boys: Tools Your Son Can Build On for Life. And we're laughing because you talk about the maturity level of girls compared to boys.<\/p>\n<p>Here's something I want your wisdom on because you sit, every day, with families and kids\u2014and walk through this whole\u2014and yesterday, if you missed it, go back<\/p>\n<p>and listen; because you even defined what emotionally strong and healthy looks like.<\/p>\n<p>That's where we realized, \u201cWow! I wasn't.\u201d But here's the thing\u2014and I don't think I'm<\/p>\n<p>that unique in that I thought I was\u2014and most of us do think we are. It's always the<\/p>\n<p>person who\u2019s got the problems: they're the last one to know they have the problems.<\/p>\n<p>And yet, Ann and I get married; and then, I become a dad. I never had a dad; he walked<\/p>\n<p>out when I was seven. I knew I was deficient in some ways, like, \u201cWow, I didn't have a<\/p>\n<p>dad. I'm not sure what to do.\u201d But I thought I was pretty secure emotionally, and it's<\/p>\n<p>probably because I succeeded in different things in life, and thought, \u201cOh, I'm a<\/p>\n<p>college quarterback,\u201d and blah, blah, blah. I was very deficient in the emotional area of<\/p>\n<p>my life!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Now, I\u2019m thinking back on our conversations when we first got married; and we were young. I was 19; Dave was 22. But I can remember asking you, \u201cWhat are you feeling about all this?\u201d And Dave would often say, \u201cI have no idea. I have no idea.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: She would say, \u201cYes, you do. You just don\u2019t want to tell me\u201d; we\u2019d get in fights. I honestly didn\u2019t know; I had never even answered that question. You talked about that yesterday. So let\u2019s talk about emotionally unhealthy\u2014could be men or women.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But we\u2019re adults now; and we have responsibilities to, maybe, be a parent. How were we going to raise an emotionally strong son if we\u2019re not emotionally strong ourselves?<\/p>\n<p>David: I have a friend in Nashville, who started a treatment center for professional men.<\/p>\n<p>The entire population would be adult men\u2014who are doctors, attorneys, CEOs, pastors,<\/p>\n<p>men in leadership\u2014men who have likely been highly successful, vocationally, and have<\/p>\n<p>found themselves in the throes of addiction of some kind. On the first day in arriving,<\/p>\n<p>they do group together. He will put a feelings chart in the center of the space and ask<\/p>\n<p>every man that question: \u201cWhat are you feeling about being here?\u201d He said, \u201cDavid, you<\/p>\n<p>have no idea how many adult men\u2014these are Harvard-educated, Yale-educated, Duke-<\/p>\n<p>educated men; again, who've been highly successful, vocationally\u2014who cannot answer<\/p>\n<p>the question. The answers are even on the floor, but they just don't know.<\/p>\n<p>That connection between the head and the heart is not something I believe men were trained to understand, particularly men of certain generations. My grandfather is a perfect example. My grandfather was wildly successful in the work he did as a builder. My grandfather fought in the war\u2014I am a recipient of the freedom my grandfather fought to bring to me, as an adult, in this moment in time\u2014he came home from the war, having seen friends who died in front of him\u2014not just friends who were lost in front of him\u2014he saw atrocities that most soldiers have seen that are beyond anything I will ever likely see in my lifetime. He came home and was to go right back to work at that point. There weren\u2019t resources in place\u2014there wasn\u2019t support in place\u2014there wasn\u2019t an invitation to say: \u201cYou have witnessed trauma, and there needs to be a space where you can talk about that and figure out what it looks like to live forward in light of that and not carry it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think it is why there are so many men of that generation, in particular, who lived in pain; and as a result, caused pain. I think it\u2019s part of the wisdom of that age-old saying, \u201cHurt people hurt people.\u201d I\u2019ve talked about, in this book, that males who were in pain often cause pain. I talk about how internal pain has an external presentation of some kind, which is why I think adult men lead the stats for substance abuse. To the degree that we don\u2019t learn the name and navigate, it will show up in some way. I think about the wisdom of that passage that says, \u201cOut of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.\u201d It will come out in some way.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: When you say, \u201cname,\u201d name what? What are you referring to?<\/p>\n<p>David: I think\u2014name the feeling; name the experience\u2014for those men sitting in that<\/p>\n<p>circle at group to be able to name:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI feel terrified that I'm in a treatment center right now,\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201c\u2026that I may have just wrecked my marriage,\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201c\u2026that I may have just lost my job,\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u2014whatever it may be. They could not articulate how they were feeling about where they<\/p>\n<p>were and what had happened that brought them there. I think that's the naming part. My<\/p>\n<p>grandfather wasn't invited to name the experience of losing friends and seeing them die<\/p>\n<p>in brutal ways. As I think about that, and the importance of it\u2014and all the ways when we<\/p>\n<p>can't name\u2014that it presents.<\/p>\n<p>One of the things that you said\u2014that I wanted to go back to, that I talk about in the<\/p>\n<p>book, that's lesser known\u2014is that I think overachieving is a way of numbing. I don't<\/p>\n<p>think we talk enough about that. We talk about the obvious of substance abuse, and the<\/p>\n<p>obvious of addiction, and the obvious of infidelity; but we don't talk about overachieving.<\/p>\n<p>I think that's not just true for us, as men, but also for women. I think about the different<\/p>\n<p>ways it presents. I was talking with a mom, just this past week, about how, with anxiety<\/p>\n<p>with girls, often the more out of control they feel internally, they will work to try to control<\/p>\n<p>something externally: people, outcomes, situations, experiences. As I was talking<\/p>\n<p>that through, this mom said to me, \u201cDavid, I'm thinking back to being in college myself.<\/p>\n<p>The majority of girls in my sorority had an eating disorder.\u201d I think about it now\u2014what<\/p>\n<p>we didn't know then; what we know now\u2014my guess would be a lot of them had anxiety<\/p>\n<p>that they were trying to manage through food. Internal pain always has an external<\/p>\n<p>presentation. To the degree that we can't name and navigate that, it's going to come<\/p>\n<p>out sideways in some ways: it could be overachieving; it could be an eating disorder; it<\/p>\n<p>could be addiction.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yeah, mine was definitely the overachieving; and I couldn't see it. That's my<\/p>\n<p>question: \u201cHow do you help a guy?\u201d Again, we could talk about women too; but I'm<\/p>\n<p>thinking of a guy\u2014husband, a dad\u2014who doesn't see it. And then, when his wife, I love<\/p>\n<p>hear what Ann thinks because she could see it in me and would point it out. And often,<\/p>\n<p>the guy will say: \u201cI'm good; I don't need to go to a counselor,\u201d \u201cWe don't need<\/p>\n<p>counseling,\u201d \u201cI don't need counseling; I'm good. Just because I can't name a feeling<\/p>\n<p>right now doesn't mean I am not in touch with my emotions\u201d; when, actually, it does; but<\/p>\n<p>he can't see it. She's stuck, trying to encourage him: \u201cLet's go to a marriage conference<\/p>\n<p>together this weekend,\u201d \u201cNo, we're good. I don't need it.\u201d She's dying over there\u2014and<\/p>\n<p>maybe, his kids are\u2014he doesn't see that; he's not emotionally strong. How do you help<\/p>\n<p>a guy like that get help?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And Dave, I would add, it's not just that you can't name a feeling; because most<\/p>\n<p>wives are like, \u201cIf that was the only problem, I wouldn't be that upset.\u201d When it comes<\/p>\n<p>out in other ways, in a pornography addiction, in anger\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014anger.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Anger\u2019s a big one; that\u2019s when, as a wife\u2014and especially, with boys\u2014we don\u2019t know how to navigate that.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes, and I think it does show up that way for a lot of adult men. I will hear wives speak to that being the primary evidence of when he\u2019s just in the normal day-to-day parenting, the discipline has too much intensity. His words are fueled with so much anger and internal pain, external presentation of some kind. I think it really starts with the foundational acknowledgement that we are made as emotional beings, every one of us.<\/p>\n<p>In the beginning of the book I have a chapter on foundation and identity, and anchoring boys to an accurate definition of what it means to be a man in this world, which we should never be defining outside of the person of Christ, just who He was. If we think about His human experience, we\u2019re told throughout Scripture there\u2019s all kinds of evidence of where He felt the different emotions that we feel throughout His life here on earth. And that Jesus, though He was a man, who was mocked, abused, abandoned, crucified\u2014the worst of human experiences\u2014that He didn\u2019t go off the rails. He was able to deal with the circumstances of His life on earth with humility, with civility, with strength, with emotional strength, all these things that I talk so much about. I think it starts there\u2014just acknowledging we\u2019re made as emotional beings\u2014so therefore, our job is to learn the name and navigate that.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Would you say that, then, to your little boys? Would you teach them that?<\/p>\n<p>David: I would.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you probably do that in your practice.<\/p>\n<p>David: Absolutely. I think it needs to start there with boys; and then, this may feel a little surprising for parents listening to hear\u2014but please stay with me\u2014with adolescent boys, I want to go ahead and share those scary statistics we talked about on the front side of our conversation\/the first episode. In fact, I have some stats on page 73 of this book, that I encourage parents to read to adolescent boys. I think boys need to go into adolescence, understanding, \u201cHey, here\u2019s the vulnerabilities for males in this world.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Will you read those to us?<\/p>\n<p>David: I would be glad to; absolutely. We\u2019re going to go back to some of these realities<\/p>\n<p>that we briefly previewed in Episode One that I think are my starting point. I have a<\/p>\n<p>whole section on anxiety and depression; and within that, I talk about how the American<\/p>\n<p>Journal of Men\u2019s Health says that depression and suicide are ranked as a leading cause<\/p>\n<p>of death among men. Six million men are impacted by depression in the United States<\/p>\n<p>every single year.<\/p>\n<p>This next stat was one of the hardest statistics that I put in the book; but listen to this:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cGlobally, on average\u201d\u2014so around the globe\u2014\"one man dies by suicide every minute of<\/p>\n<p>every day.\u201d Here\u2019s some more stats:<\/p>\n<p>Men are often reluctant to openly discuss their health or how they feel about<\/p>\n<p>the impact of significant life events.<\/p>\n<p>Men are more reluctant to take action when they don\u2019t feel physically or mentally well.<\/p>\n<p>Men engage in more risky activities that are harmful to their health. These behaviors are strongly linked to traditional masculinity.<\/p>\n<p>Men often feel pressure to appear strong and stoic. They resist support and help, and they experience greater amounts of hopelessness and despair.<\/p>\n<p>Anxiety and depression are more common in girls\u2014adolescent females and adult<\/p>\n<p>women\u2014yet, women are more likely to acknowledge a struggle and seek support. I<\/p>\n<p>think those are just important facts that we want to arm boys with, particularly in<\/p>\n<p>adolescence, to understand: \u201cOkay, these are the realities,\u201d no different than\u2014we have<\/p>\n<p>this great data on hand that we\u2019ve now known for quite some time\u2014that it\u2019s important to<\/p>\n<p>talk with adolescents about a history of substance abuse if that exists in your family; to<\/p>\n<p>let those kids know, \u201cYou are more vulnerable to addiction. So where a person, over<\/p>\n<p>here, might drink a beer, and that\u2019s all they want; based on our family history, the<\/p>\n<p>likelihood of you doing that is not very great.\u201d We don\u2019t help kids by keeping that<\/p>\n<p>information away from them, but by arming them. I think this is kind of a similar<\/p>\n<p>philosophy of: \u201cLet\u2019s just talk about these hard realities.\u201d That\u2019s not a scare tactic; it\u2019s<\/p>\n<p>just this reality of: \u201cWe need to be informed and know these are some vulnerabilities<\/p>\n<p>that exist; we\u2019re going to have to work harder.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Again, it goes all the way back to the front-side of development: we have fewer words. If<\/p>\n<p>I were to lastly just build on that, I would say this: you spoke to it well, a few minutes<\/p>\n<p>ago, when you talked about the anger piece. Somewhere around nine to ten, boys<\/p>\n<p>begin to channel all primary emotions\u2014fear, anger, sadness, disappointment\u2014into one<\/p>\n<p>emotion, and that one emotion is anger. If I have fewer words, on the front-side of<\/p>\n<p>development\u2014and then, at some point a little farther down the road in development, I\u2019m<\/p>\n<p>going to start channeling everything toward anger\u2014and then, a little farther down the<\/p>\n<p>road, my tendency to shove things down, and not ask for help, is greater than it is for<\/p>\n<p>the females around me, we have more work to do in this emotional space with the boys<\/p>\n<p>we love, which is part of why I'm so thankful you all would let me come talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think, as a listener\u2014I\u2019m thinking, as a mom\u2014\u201cThat all feels overwhelming and scary to even read those stats.\u201d I\u2019m imagining you and your wife reading those stats to your twin sons.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What did you say after that? Parents are like, \u201cOkay, I can read those; now what?\u201d\u2014\u201cYou\u2019re susceptible to these things,\u201d\u2014where\u2019s the hope?<\/p>\n<p>David: First, I would say to any mom listening\u2014who\u2019s immediately going to a place of: \u201cI feel overwhelmed,\u201d\u2014I end every chapter of this book\u2014I committed to my editor: \u201cI\u2019m ending every chapter with five practical ways you can put these ideas into practice; we\u2019re not waiting to the end of the book.\u201d Every chapter is going to end with five easy things that parents could be doing in the moment, on the ground, putting these principles into practice. I don\u2019t want them to feel overwhelmed.<\/p>\n<p>The bigger hope for me is\u2014I have a great story in this book that I absolutely love about a single mom, who had struggled with anxiety over the course of her life\u2014she said to her son, who was starting to show signs of that; she said, \u201cYou know, buddy, I want to tell you that, if you were to struggle with worry and anxiety like I have over the course of my life, I\u2019m so thankful that we live in a time where we know what to do with that. I know a lot of great skills and strategies to teach you so that you can\u201d\u2014this was her line, which I love; and I\u2019m borrowing it from this wise single mom\u2014\"so that you can carry it with God throughout your life.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I love that language, because it communicated: \u201cIf this goes on\u201d\u2014and anxiety is not something that just magically goes away at your 18th or your 21st birthday\u2014\"but if you struggle with this in different seasons, ongoing, there are good skills and strategies that we know that you can implement in the, day to day; and you will always be able to carry this with God. You\u2019re not alone\u2014you need God every day, all day\u2014and we need community.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Some of the healthiest parents I have worked with in my 25 years of doing this work are parents in recovery. I think they\u2019re some of the healthiest\u2014because they live under the principles of the 12 Steps\u2014which means: \u201cI start every day by acknowledging I struggle, and I need God; and I need community.\u201d Wouldn\u2019t we all be better if we lived from that starting point every day?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: Those things are true for every one of us, whether addiction is part of our story or not. We all need God; we all need community. We all need to wake up and start from a place of acknowledging, \u201cI have a need.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Dave, you were talking about how you feel like you weren\u2019t very good at this; but as a mom, I\u2019ve realized I parented often in fear. I called one of our sons, who was away at school, and I had asked him an opinion on something. He said, \u201cMom, I\u2019m processing some stuff, and I just can\u2019t talk right now.\u201d As a mom, I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat do you mean, \u2018processing stuff\u2019? What kind of things are your processing?\u201d He said, \u201cIt just feels like you are always trying to fix me. You\u2019re always afraid that I was going to fail or do something,\u201d\u2014not fail [academically] because he\u2019s very driven\u2014but fail in terms: morally, or drinking, or partying. He said, \u201cI just need to process some of the pain that I went through, growing up, of trying to be perfect for you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I started crying\u2014because I realized, even that moment, I started defending myself\u2014\u201cWell, hon, it\u2019s because I love you so much. It\u2019s because I see how amazing you are,\u201d\u2014and blah, blah, blah. He said, \u201cBut mom, sometimes I just need to tell you that I\u2019m struggling; and you don\u2019t have to fix it. You don\u2019t have to fix me, Mom.\u201d As a mom, we love our kids so much, and dads do too. We hate for them to be in pain; so instead of letting him be in his pain, I\u2019m trying to throw the life jacket on him, and say, \u201cYou\u2019re fine!\u201d for my own sake. I wish that I would have allowed him to be in his pain, to admit and talk about my own pain; and then, not have to fix him. Is that normal for us to hate our kids to be in that pain?<\/p>\n<p>David: Absolutely, it is. I want to first say to you: what a gift that you could come to him, in that kind of humility, and listen and let him say all of what he needed to say.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I wasn\u2019t very nice at first. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>David: Of course! And it does bring about that instinct of: \u201cI want you to know what all was going on behind the scenes.\u201d What was primarily going on is exactly what you\u2019re asking. There\u2019s not a parent alive who enjoys seeing their kids struggle in any way; it pulls on the deepest parts of who we are, and we want to take away the pain. So I think everything about that makes sense to me.<\/p>\n<p>I think even back to that story of that wise mom: \u201cWatching my kids, in their own different ways, learn to carry struggle with God has been one of the greatest challenges of my parenting\u2014to step back and allow some of that to happen\u2014to know that it is preparing them for their adult lives: to walk with God, to need God.\u201d When we had lunch today, you shared this beautiful story with me about one of your sons and the way you allowed something to happen in his life that you now can see the fruit of, how it deepened his faith, and how it connected some dots for him.<\/p>\n<p>I think for any parent listening, I would want to remind you of that, as I\u2019m reminding myself of that right now: that everything in me wants to fix, and do, and change, and renovate\u2014and add a whole list of words to that\u2014and the ultimate goal is that I would equip my kids so that they can walk with God\u2014and carry their struggle, and their children\u2019s struggle, and their grandchildren\u2019s struggle with God\u2014when I\u2019m no longer here at some point. It is all about the equipping. Our friend, Dan Allender, talks about this relationship being transformative: \u201cIt is the hardest thing I have ever done, and the best thing I have ever done, too.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We sort of thought\u2014I think a lot of us, parents, think, when they are raised and we send them off\u2014\u201cWe\u2019re done,\u201d and we\u2019re not! It\u2019s a different phase of parenting. We wrote a parenting book\u2014we talk about four seasons\u2014the last season is this adult-to-adult. One of the things that I have found fascinating about this season, which is also very hard, is they come to you now, as adult men\u2014or adult women, if you had daughters\u2014and they speak out things that you did that hurt them, or let them down, or failed them. That\u2019s hard to hear, but it\u2019s necessary for them to do that. I did the same with my parents; now, they\u2019re doing it with us.<\/p>\n<p>We can do what Ann was saying, and say, \u201cYes, but I\u2026\u201d; instead, we should just listen and realize that\u2014in your words, David\u2014what\u2019s happening is they\u2019re naming and navigating, as an adult man or woman, now. That\u2019s exactly what our job is, as parents, is to equip them in such a way that they can do that, rather than cut them off; because we\u2019re trying to save our self-esteem, and say, \u201cWe did a good job,\u201d rather than saying, \u201cYes, I\u2019m sorry for that; and in some ways, I\u2019m watching you mature because of that.\u201d Is that true?<\/p>\n<p>David: Absolutely. I think it\u2019s even part of that desire that I think exists for every one of us, as parents, that our kids would outperform us\u2014not just vocationally\u2014but I want my kids to do a better job of parenting than I did.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Me too.<\/p>\n<p>David: I want them to live out so many different parts of their lives differently. If we\u2019re really doing our job, that\u2019s always the great hope that we would get to see some evidence and fruit of that. I have already seen some evidence of that. My sons outperform me at 20, in some places. It\u2019s mind-blowing to me, and it excites me.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: It excites me to think they\u2019re figuring some things out earlier than I did, and I\u2019m grateful for that; I want that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; we got on the plane, flying back from spending a weekend with one of our sons and their kids. Ann said to me, \u201cHe is such a good husband and dad.\u201d I know what she was really saying: \u201cHe is a better man at that age than you were.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No, I\u2019m not saying that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: No, it wasn\u2019t a cutdown at all; but that\u2019s what I saw. It was like, \u201cHe is better, times a hundred, that I was at the same age.\u201d And that is not like I\u2019m jealous; it\u2019s like, \u201cThank you, Jesus.\u201d That\u2019s what we\u2019re called to do; that is a beautiful thing to see.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I remember, as he dropped us off at the airport, we both laid our hands on him and prayed for him, and just thanked God for the things that we had seen in him. It hasn\u2019t been easy, and he struggled; but to see him surrendering his life and his family to Jesus, that\u2019s what we all long for, as parents.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re right, Dave; I don\u2019t think it\u2019s ever too late to apologize. I remember saying to another son this past week, \u201cI\u2019m really sorry that you were feeling so lonely in high school. That must have been really hard for you.\u201d I said, \u201cI don\u2019t know what I would have done, but I wish I would have done a better job at that. That must have felt so lonely.\u201d For him just to say, \u201cIt was; it was really hard\u201d; and for me just to let it sit there.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes; it\u2019s so hard, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>David: But I think what\u2019s happening in those moments\u2014which is even in keeping with the conversation we\u2019re sharing about our kids doing better than we did\u2014I think about those wise words of: \u201cWhatever we don\u2019t transform, we will inevitably transmit.\u201d I think there is incredible truth to that. It\u2019s like if I\u2019m working to transform some things\u2014if I\u2019m working to try and do better than my grandfather could do\u2014because I have more to work with; we know more at this point along the way\u2014and then, my hope is my boys can do better than I am, too. Then, I\u2019m not just transmitting things; I\u2019m working to try to name and navigate things differently than my grandfather knew to do; and my father was able to do better than him. I, hopefully, have raised sons who will know how to do it even better than I could.<\/p>\n<p>I love the legacy of that\u2014even as you\u2019re talking\u2014it does take a lot of\u2014I think to your great story\u2014sitting, and listening, and figuring out how not to speak at times.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m so bad at that. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>David: I know; aren\u2019t we all?! I think we\u2019re being trained against that in this world more than ever. I think it\u2019s one of the worst parts of technology and social media, in particular, is that we\u2019re just invited to comment in real time all the time, like everything needs my opinion or my input in some way. I talk about how we\u2019re being trained against regulation. I worry about that for kids of this generation, who are growing up with that, believing that: \u201cI, somehow, need to give input to that at all times.\u201d When the reality\u2014all of us know\u2014wisdom means: \u201cSometimes, I don\u2019t need to say a word. I just need to sit in that and listen, and there\u2019s nothing needed to contribute to it except silence and humility.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: David, when you just said, \u201cWhat isn\u2019t transformed is transmitted,\u201d I just want to say to the dad, and Ann could speak to the mom if you want.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, I was going to say: \u201c\u2026and to the mom.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s either one. If you\u2019re walking in some struggle\u2014and we all are\u2014I often thought, \u201cI\u2019ve got to get a grip on this for me.\u201d I never thought, \u201cI have to win this battle for my legacy.\u201d Here\u2019s what I know now: this isn\u2019t just about you. If you don\u2019t let God transform your pain or your struggle, it will be passed on\u2014it\u2019s Exodus 20\u2014\u201cThe sins of the father will visit the third and fourth generation.\u201d At the same time, the righteous man will see his legacy blessed for a thousand generations.<\/p>\n<p>So I just want to remind you\u2014if you\u2019re listening: \u201cI\u2019m going to deal with that tomorrow,\u201d\u2014don\u2019t wait. You have to get help; you have to tell somebody. Get a counselor; get a buddy; get another woman\u2014get it out of the dark into the light\u2014get God working in this area, because this isn\u2019t just about you. This is about your son dealing with the same thing, or your daughter. I just want to encourage you, as one man who\u2019s been there, and still walking that road: \u201cDon\u2019t wait. Start the healthy healing process right now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We're Dave and Ann Wilson, and we've been talking with David Thomas about<\/p>\n<p>Raising Emotionally Strong Boys\u2014that's the name of his book. I tell you: what he was<\/p>\n<p>just saying is so hard\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s so hard!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014to sit in silence when you just want to tell them what they should be doing and<\/p>\n<p>thinking.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I just want to react to everything. And so it was really good just to have that<\/p>\n<p>conversation with him. I love David Thomas. I love Sissy Goff, who's with him in their<\/p>\n<p>practice; but man, they just have great stuff out for families and kids.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yeah, we encourage you to get his book, Raising Emotionally Strong Boys,<\/p>\n<p>available wherever books are sold.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife.com<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/315102","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=315102"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/312569"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=315102"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=315102"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=315102"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=315102"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=315102"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=315102"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}