{"id":315100,"date":"2025-05-26T03:33:22","date_gmt":"2025-05-26T07:33:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas-2\/"},"modified":"2025-06-17T10:38:08","modified_gmt":"2025-06-17T14:38:08","slug":"raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Raising Emotionally Healthy Boys &#8211; David Thomas"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What\u2019s it take to raise emotionally strong boys? Veteran counselor David Thomas knows males typically aren\u2019t equipped with skills to name and navigate their experience\u2014and the fallout is grave. Thomas lays out strategies to equip boys for a powerful present and future.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What\u2019s it take to raise emotionally strong boys? Counselor David Thomas lays out vital strategies to equip boys for a powerful present and future.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":312569,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/4f7f1ac3-1841-46b0-9473-b2dd0106701a\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:07","filesize":"23.95M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2025-05-26 03:33:22","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2850,2835],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8658],"cwp_profile":[9072],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-315100","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character-development","category-raising-boys","podcast_series-raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas","cwp_profile-david-thomas","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/315100\/raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/315100\/raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Gxhl9rjxDw\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas-2\/\">Raising Emotionally Healthy Boys &#8211; David Thomas<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/raising-emotionally-healthy-boys-david-thomas-2\/embed\/#?secret=Gxhl9rjxDw\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Raising Emotionally Healthy Boys &#8211; David Thomas&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Gxhl9rjxDw\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What\u2019s it take to raise emotionally strong boys? Counselor David Thomas lays out vital strategies to equip boys for a powerful present and future.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Learn more about David and his books at his website: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/\">raisingboysandgirls.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Every donation to FamilyLife in May will be matched. <a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/may-2025\/?cru_source=D0002408AT&amp;cru_medium=podcast&amp;cru_campaign=May2025\">Donate today on our website<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-05-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/p>\n<p>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/p>\n<p>Raising Emotionally Healthy Boys<\/p>\n<p>Guest:David Thomas<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Raising Emotionally Healthy Boys (Day 1 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:May 26, 2025<\/p>\n<p>David: Developmental theorists would say most girls finish adolescence somewhere around 19 to 20. They would say, for boys, it\u2019s 22 to 25.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the<\/p>\n<p>relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>Dave:And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m sitting here with a mom of boys! You are, I think, the greatest mother of boys. Of course, I might be a little biased.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think you\u2019re very biased!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But you were fantastic as a mom of boys!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s easy to say that looking back, you know? Because when I was in the midst of it, I felt like I was failing miserably.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m just telling you, I\u2019m just your husband, and I\u2019m not biased at all. [Laughter] I mean, even this weekend, watching you with our grandsons, you walk in and light up a boy\u2019s life! You understand boys like I\u2019ve never seen.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Aww, thanks.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019ve got one question for you, because we\u2019re going to talk about raising boys today; emotionally healthy boys. What would you say is the most important advice you could give a mom?\u2014or a dad?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I mean, the first thought\u2014this is crazy\u2014that comes to my mind is: \u201cEmbrace the physical chaos\u201d; that\u2019s the first thing. It feels like chaos with little boys, because they just don\u2019t sit very often, and they\u2019re physical, and they\u2019re loud. So, as a mom, if you\u2019re trying to get a house that\u2019s quiet and in order, you\u2019re going to be super frustrated! [Laughter] Because it\u2019s pretty chaotic with little boys, in a good way, and it can be really draining physically.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: After spending a weekend with three grandsons and a granddaughter, my head is still banging around in my head. It's like my skull is like just like the whole weekend was awesome, but it was chaotic. We\u2019ve got the expert in the studio. You\u2019re not a boy mom; you\u2019re a boy dad and a father of a daughter as well: David Thomas. It\u2019s your first time ever on FamilyLife Today?<\/p>\n<p>David: I am so grateful to be here with the two of you. . And I'm going to say I'm not married to your amazing wife, but I will say I get everything you're saying from the time we've spent together. It makes sense to me why you would have said what you just said, and that\u2019s been my experience so far with you.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: David!<\/p>\n<p>David: [You\u2019re] a really intentional mother of boys. It\u2019s been fun to hear you tell stories.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019re so nice! That means a lot.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You can tell, already you\u2019re a counselor. You can just tell by the way you\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He\u2019s empathetic!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014you have been encouraging to us. Tell our listeners what you do sort of every single day of your life.<\/p>\n<p>David: I have been the Director of Family Counseling at an amazing place in Nashville,<\/p>\n<p>Tennessee, called Daystar Counseling Ministries. I work with an incredible team, the<\/p>\n<p>majority of whom are human; but we have five therapy dogs on staff. I work with<\/p>\n<p>great canines and humans. The whole focus for us is the pediatric population\u2014so we<\/p>\n<p>work just with kids, adolescents, and families\u2014that's our whole focus. I have long-said<\/p>\n<p>and always believed: \u201cIf you go to work every day, and you get to hang out with kids and<\/p>\n<p>dogs, what a great gig.\u201d I have a really good day job; and out of that work, I have written<\/p>\n<p>some books and had some incredible opportunities just to travel around the country and<\/p>\n<p>talk about different aspects of parenting. I\u2019m super grateful those opportunities that led<\/p>\n<p>me to be with the two of you today and sharing conversations.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s so sweet.<\/p>\n<p>David: Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The book we\u2019re going to talk about today: Raising Emotionally Strong Boys:<\/p>\n<p>Tools Your Son Can Build on for Life. I got to tell you, David, when I picked this up\u2014and<\/p>\n<p>again, I'm a boy dad\u2014I wish I'd have had daughters; we didn't have any. And now, we<\/p>\n<p>have daughters-in-law and granddaughters, which is awesome and amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And let\u2019s just let our listeners know that David had twin boys.<\/p>\n<p>David: We had a shocking journey in that my firstborn, as you shared, was a girl. We went to our ultrasound for our second pregnancy\u2014we got pregnant a year later\u2014and we were incredibly grateful, and went for the ultrasound as you do. We walked in the door and said to the technician, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re really old school. We don\u2019t want to know what we\u2019re having. We didn\u2019t know my daughter was a girl until the day she was born. Make a note in the chart, but don\u2019t tell us.\u201d Y\u2019all, I can still remember where I was standing in that room as the technician looked up, and she said, \u201cI see two heads.\u201d I remember thinking, \u201cWhy are you smiling if the baby has two heads?\u201d [Laughter] Nothing about that looked or sounded right to me! [Laughter] I was genuinely that shocked; we have no history of multiples. My wife had not gained extra weight. Her counts weren't different. Here we are at the ultrasound, midway through, finding this out for the first time. Knowing that multiples always come early, I said to the technician at that point, \u201cOkay, actually, change of plans, we do need to know, since we\u2019re so far behind. I\u2019m going to lie down next to my wife; and then, you tell us what we\u2019re having.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Did you?<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes! I laid down on the bed next to her in the middle of this ultrasound. [Laughter] And she said, \u201cTwo boys.\u201d We are still recovering from that news, 20 years later. [Laughter] So, [I\u2019m the] father of a daughter and twin sons. I don\u2019t know if the two of you would say this has been true in your life\u2014but I\u2019m sure, for me\u2014that those three human beings have been the greatest teachers of my life.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>David: I\u2019ve had some incredible teachers and mentors in my life that I\u2019m thankful for, but I have learned more from being a student of those three people than I have in any other relationship.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think though, David, what you said is true: I used to think, \u201cOh, I can\u2019t wait! God has chosen me to be their parent, because I\u2019m going to instill this knowledge and this wealth of spiritual maturity to my children.\u201d And then, I got along the road, and thought, \u201cOh! This isn\u2019t about my kids\u2014changing them\u2014as much as it is this whole process is changing me!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s making me see my flaws; it\u2019s making me see my weaknesses; it\u2019s making me depend on God.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Having boys, and having had a girl first, were they different?<\/p>\n<p>David: Oh, my goodness, were they different! [Laughter] And not even just having a girl, but a first-born girl. And that is not to say that every first-born girl meets the criteria of a first-born, but it is to say a lot do, which is to mean that my daughter, like a lot of first-born girls, is conscientious; she\u2019s a rule-follower. I could run down a long list of things that are true about her that stay true; that were not as true [for our boys].<\/p>\n<p>In fact, you know ,maybe my best example of this would be, when she was a senior in high school, she was in the middle of applying for scholarships to college\u2014applying to colleges and applying for scholarships\u2014she would come home, repeatedly, and say things to my wife and me like, \u201cHey, I just want to let you both know that I applied for this scholarship today. I\u2019ll hear back in two weeks.\u201d We didn\u2019t even know that scholarship existed. [Laughter] We certainly didn\u2019t know the deadlines. She applied to more colleges than I knew. We sat down with a college counselor; and I was like, \u201cOh, I actually wasn\u2019t aware she had applied to that school as well,\u201d\u2014she was so on top of things, on her game, had a spreadsheet\u2014all those things.<\/p>\n<p>I remember looking at my wife, at one point, and saying, \u201cLet\u2019s just enjoy this, okay? Because it will not go down the same next time. We may drag those two through the process.\u201d And my sons are amazing\u2014they brought very incredible strengths to that process\u2014but it looked different, as you both know. It looks vastly different; their strengths are different. And they were maybe even greater because of her \u201cfirst-bornness\u201d\u2014I\u2019ll make up that word\u2014that has made the entire journey look different.<\/p>\n<p>The other thing we laugh about is we were given one of those kits at a baby shower when my daughter was born, where you plug in the sockets and you lock the cabinet shut. And we moved in that process and we somehow forgot to put all those things up in the kitchen, and in the socket\/in the outlets. And we found it like a year later, and I said to my wife, \u201cOh my goodness, we never even used this; how embarrassing.\u201d But we didn't need it. She would find things on the floor and bring it to us. They [the twins] would find things on the floor and put it in their mouth or up their nose. So we couldn't lock down enough of the kitchen cabinets with those boys. My daughter\u2014just the way she operated in the world\u2014it was such a different experience.<\/p>\n<p>It was such a learning curve, not only to jump from girls to boys; but obviously, one to three.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: My daughter was not two when my sons were born, so we had three children<\/p>\n<p>under three. We had three in diapers. I was driving a Nissan Sentra; my wife was<\/p>\n<p>driving a Toyota Camry. We didn't even own a car big enough to put three seats in.<\/p>\n<p>People would just come by our house and drop off diapers on the front porch, say,<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBless you. We hope this is helpful in some way\u201d; because we were overwhelmed with<\/p>\n<p>parenting three children under the age of two.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Were you a therapist at that time?<\/p>\n<p>David: I was.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And so, you had tools, going in.<\/p>\n<p>David: In my head, I had those tools. [Laughter] Every therapist, who\u2019s transparent and honest, will say to you, \u201cAll of what you know\u201d\u2014and my wife\u2019s a teacher; she\u2019d say the same\u2014\u201cAll of what works with other kids\u201d\u2014in terms of our vocations\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: \u2014\u201cdoes not always work with your own.\u201d You get humbled in a remarkable way to learn that this book knowledge\u2014this thing I\u2019m communicating to parents\u2014doesn\u2019t always work exactly the way I\u2019d like it to work in my own home. So it\u2019s part of where they\u2019ve been these great teachers of humbling me, and I think, even allowing me, hopefully, over the course of my work, to be present with parents in a different way; because I understand the reality that the three of us know\u2014you can do so many of the right things; and you can read all the right books and listen to the right podcasts\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: \u2014and things [can] just be really hard and not go as planned. Knowing that God is creating opportunities, as you beautifully said, for our growth\/for our transformation as much as for our kids.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk about, you know, as a therapist and as a dad, the differences between a daughter and a son. And I know they\u2019re unique to every\u2014there are generalities that don\u2019t cross over; you know that better than anybody\u2014but there are differences.<\/p>\n<p>David: There are.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, Ann just mentioned even the physicality.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I have a sister and two brothers, and all of us had boys. So my parents had<\/p>\n<p>12 grandsons.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So when we would get together\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh!<\/p>\n<p>David: \u2014chaos, to use your word.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It was. Yes, beyond\u2014things flying, and you had to wear a helmet to walk<\/p>\n<p>through the family room\u2014some nephews get it. It was crazy. And I'm not saying<\/p>\n<p>daughters don't do that as well, but there are differences.<\/p>\n<p>David: There are.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And you wrote about raising emotionally strong boys. So, I want to get there in a second: why emotionally strong, because a lot of people would think, \u201cJust raise strong boys.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But talk a little bit about differences.<\/p>\n<p>David: Well, I think one is the very thing you\u2019re pointing to, which is just so wise to highlight on the front side, is their energy is different. We know that, early on, girls have advanced abilities to regulate themselves differently than boys. It\u2019s why\u2014to the great point you made earlier\u2014they have more physicality to who they are as people in this world, and even to their emotional experience.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s something I talk about in the book: that research would show us that toddler-aged boys are more prone, in a classroom, biting, hitting, kicking, screaming, throwing. It\u2019s that need for release that exists in them that is different in a lot of girls. It\u2019s why a lot of adolescent boys are prone to punching holes in drywall. I don\u2019t hear that story about girls as often. It's not to say it can\u2019t happen, but it is to say that energy\u2014that physicality, that intensity\u2014is something that we have to work to create\u2014in the book I call it\u2014\u201chealthy outward movement.\u201d Otherwise, it will come out, but it may not be healthy; or boys will turn inward on themselves, and neither of those is a helpful, healthy direction. To your great question: I think it starts with understanding their energy; and then, kind of placing that in the context of their emotionality.<\/p>\n<p>The other thing that I would say is, you know, pediatricians would report that at 16\/18-month well visits, most girls are saying around 100 words; most boys are saying around 30. If her general vocabulary is larger, it makes sense that her emotional vocabulary would be larger as well; so we\u2019re going to have to labor longer with boys to help them develop a more full, expansive, emotional vocabulary.<\/p>\n<p>I love that you asked that question, right out of the gate, because it simply means we always want to be thinking about these unique, God-given strengths that exist, that make their hardwiring different, or we could simply miss a lot of opportunities. We could simply place expectations on our sons that aren\u2019t helpful for them.<\/p>\n<p>Can I throw out one last one?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Sure!<\/p>\n<p>David: Developmental theorists would say most girls finish adolescence somewhere around 19 to 20. They would say, for boys, it\u2019s 22 to 25. That\u2019s significant! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s significant.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Do you know why Ann\u2019s laughing right now? Because she married me at 22. I know that laugh; it was like, \u201cI married an adolescent.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And it was sort of like I was not mature yet.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m laughing though, because we had one of our sons say, \u201cI don\u2019t think I was emotionally mature until I was 25.\u201d For him to say that now, as a 30-some-year-old; he\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t think I even knew who I was!\u201d It felt like he said, \u201cMy wife knew exactly who she was and how to respond emotionally.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: I love his transparency. I think a lot of adult males can\u2019t say that. Your reality was my reality. I was 24 when we got engaged; 25 when we got married. I remember my wife came to a class I taught on boy development. At one point, I shared that reality that I just shared. On the drive home, I said, \u201cSweetheart, you married an adolescent.\u201d She said, \u201cI know.\u201d [Laughter] It's no surprise to her!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They knew long before we did.<\/p>\n<p>David: Long before we did; absolutely. I think, if we are embracing that kind of wisdom, and knowing that to be true\u2014that God designed us to finish out adolescence in different times\u2014then it allows us to accurately place the finish line at 25 for boys. He might get there a little bit earlier\u2014but somewhere in that 22-25 space\u2014as opposed to, you know, I think we launch boys out into the world sometimes around 17, 18, 19, saying, \u201cGo be a grownup.\u201d He could have a good eight years of adolescence left.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s where\u2014in some previous work I\u2019ve written on boys\u2014I talk about how intentional I want to encourage parents to be with the summers of a boy\u2019s college years. I think there\u2019s so much learning that happens in the classroom between 18 and 22; but I think the summers of those years: I want boys working\u2014I want them doing internships, and practicums, and missions experiences\u2014where there is so much growth and learning happening to honor their development and all of the growth that still needs to be taking place in that time that I think is as pivotal as whatever kind of learning that\u2019s happening in the classroom as well.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s really wise. And you want them doing those kinds of things in the summer versus what?<\/p>\n<p>David: Nothing, which is where I think a lot of boys, sadly\u2014this day and age more than ever\u2014are going to land. I have a section in the new book about how often I sit with boys who say, \u201cI just want to chill summer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: And if I drill down on that, I know what that always means: \u201cI don\u2019t want a bedtime; I don\u2019t want a wake time; I don\u2019t want any expectations; I don\u2019t want any chores; I don\u2019t want a summer job; I don\u2019t want a schedule. I want unlimited screen time.\u201d There\u2019s a lot of ways that I think boys would define a \u201cchill summer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: Because they aren\u2019t self-actualized enough to structure that time well for themselves, they need us to help them structure it. Again, honoring development; my sons need that differently than my daughter needed that. They\u2019re 20; where she was at 20 looked very different\u2014because I understand development\u2014than where they are right now.<\/p>\n<p>All of the ways that I think that might help us think; for example, you know, I sit with a lot of families who would say to me, \u201cDavid, I think my son might benefit from a gap year. I think it could be helpful for him to do some work for a year before he goes to college and have a better understanding of the value of money, a better understanding of the value of education, and so many things.\u201d And that\u2019s not a right decision for every boy, but I\u2019m not surprised when it\u2019s a right decision for more boys than girls. I don\u2019t sit with as many parents of girls who would see evidence. That\u2019s not to say girls don\u2019t benefit from that; there are some who do. But again, we are really looking at all of what\u2019s true about growth and development and these differences we\u2019re discussing, I think it would mean we would make some different decisions on behalf of the amazing sons that we love, to honor their development.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; well, let\u2019s talk \u201cemotionally strong.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: I would love to.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because, even in your title, as I picked up your book, I thought, \u201cWhat does that look like? How does that work?\u201d I remember\u2014I\u2019ve shared this here before\u2014you know I have three sons. Steve, with whom we started a church together, had three daughters.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I can\u2019t believe you\u2019re sharing this.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, this was fascinating. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>David: I can\u2019t wait for this.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Fascinating or bad?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019ll see! Maybe it\u2019ll get edited out; Steve knows this story. They were visiting, and we were jumping in our minivan. I remember two of their daughters\u2014probably, middle school age\u2014would you say?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No, elementary, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Elementary\u201410\/11 years old; probably, 9, 10, 11\u2014started talking about who wants to sit in the captain\u2019s seats behind me. I\u2019m in the driver\u2019s seat, getting ready to drive out of our driveway. They were arguing about: \u201cNo, I want the seat,\u201d \u201cI want the seat!\u201d They keep going back and forth. There\u2019s this conversation going on; I\u2019m sitting there, like I want to get going. I got frustrated. I\u2019m embarrassed to say this; I, literally, turned around, and I said, \u201cJust punch her in the arm, and take the seat!\u201d [Laughter] Because I had never in my life heard two boys communicate; they just pushed each other out of the way and grabbed a seat, and that\u2019s how life went; and we\u2019re off.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is why God gave us sons and not daughters. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, there are two questions there: one is, there\u2019s a sense that they were more emotionally healthy than boys were at that time. But I\u2019m setting you up for a later question: here\u2019s a dad who\u2019s not emotionally healthy; how is an immature, emotionally unhealthy dad going to raise emotionally healthy boys or daughters? We\u2019ll save that one.<\/p>\n<p>But talk about this: what do you mean by \u201cemotionally strong\u201d? Help us, as parents, understand: \u201cThat\u2019s what we\u2019re were trying to do. What does that look like?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: If I were going to give the Cliff Notes version of what I think emotional strength is, it would be this: I think it\u2019s a boy\u2019s ability\u2014a male\u2019s ability\u2014to name and navigate his experience; to understand what I\u2019m feeling and what to do with it. As simple as that sounds, the three of us know we\u2019re living in a world where, I would argue, the higher percentage of males don\u2019t know how to name and navigate their experience.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I one hundred percent agree.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When you said that, I was thinking, \u201cMost men, even now\u2014 40, 50, 60 years old\u2014I think it\u2019s really difficult. I\u2019m not saying I know if women can or not; but I know, as a guy, that\u2019s not easy.<\/p>\n<p>David: It\u2019s not; and I think it\u2019s a part of why adult men in this world lead some of the scariest statistics that are out there. We, as males, lead the stats for infidelity, internet pornography, substance abuse, and suicide. If you think about just those four, the common denominator being\u2014it is a male\u2019s attempt to try to numb out or avoid whatever it is that he\u2019s feeling: \u2018I can\u2019t name it,\u2019 \u2018I can\u2019t navigate it\u2019; so I want to figure out how to shut it down in some way.\u201d It\u2019s why, interestingly enough, the stats are higher\u2014for girls, adolescent females, and adult women\u2014to struggle with anxiety and depression; and yet, more males die by suicide. It\u2019s connected to that reality that we don\u2019t know how to recognize the struggle, and we don\u2019t know how to ask well for help.<\/p>\n<p>I came across this fascinating data as I was doing the research for this book, even on the number of women\u2014adult women\u2014who go every year for their well visit with their doctor versus men. It\u2019s like we just don\u2019t attend to our health: our physical health, our emotional health, and often our spiritual health. We don\u2019t know how to ask for help when we\u2019re struggling in any of those categories; whereas you, as women, generally-speaking do.<\/p>\n<p>And even the way you do relationships: I have a whole section in the book on the strength of connection. The way you build relationships; the ways you are transparent, often, in relationships. And again, hear me say, there are women who don\u2019t know how to do that well, and there are men who do; but generally-speaking, I come across more men who don\u2019t. In 25 years of doing this work, I commonly sit with families, unfortunately, who are in the middle of one of those categories I named: husbands who\u2019ve been unfaithful in their marriage, husbands who are in the throes of addiction. I have, for over two decades, sat in the residual of what that looks like in marriages and in kids.<\/p>\n<p>This book felt connected to that old quote, Desmond Tutu said, \u201cAt some point we've got to just stop fishing people out of the river, and we need to go upstream and figure out why they're falling in.\u201d That, for me, was really the passion of this book: \u201cI want to, on my watch, just say that I knew to do everything I could possibly think to do to be a preventionist in this work.\u201d I spend a lot of my days as an interventionist, helping families on the other side of these struggles; and it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, how much more could I be talking about what we could be doing with boys, on the front-side of development; and be doing with adolescent boys in the middle of development; and be doing with adult men, even farther down the road in development, to be developing in these ways to change those statistics?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I laugh about this\u2014a mom I met a couple of weeks ago\u2014I wrote a workbook for elementary-aged boys to go with this book, Raising Emotionally Strong Boys.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s sitting right here.<\/p>\n<p>David: And it\u2019s called Strong and Smart. The mom said to me, \u201cDavid, I bought your workbook for my seven-year-old son, but I\u2019m mostly using it with my thirty-seven-year-old husband.\u201d [Laughter] I said, \u201cThat\u2019s fair! That\u2019s fair! You use it with whatever age male is in your household.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The thing that I say in the front of the book\u2014and that I want folks to hear me say so strongly right now is\u2014it\u2019s never too late. It's never too late! It turns out you can teach an old dog new tricks. It turns out we can learn new things. I have another seven-year-old boy who\u2019s doing the workbook with his grandfather. When he told me that story, y\u2019all, I almost wept. The thought of a little seven-year-old boy doing this with his grandfather in his sixties\u2014and that they\u2019re learning these things together\u2014it overwhelms me. It overwhelms me on so many levels:<\/p>\n<p>One, I think about what that grandfather\u2019s last seasons of marriage might look like differently if he could name and navigate his experience.<\/p>\n<p>Two, the gift of this little boy getting to sit, front row, to one of the adult men he trusts the most in this world, doing this work in front of him. I just think that\u2019s what I hope can happen for so many dads is that they can allow the boys they love to be sitting, front row, and watching what it looks like to learn new skills, and how that impacts relationships.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, we have so much more to talk about! We do! But David, I wish I had had this book with our young boys. Don\u2019t you, Dave?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And Dave, I thought it was so humble of you to say, \u201cI wasn\u2019t an emotionally strong man.\u201d That is so humble of you to even say that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Can we [redact] that from the broadcast?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: No, it\u2019s definitely true. And the sad thing is: I didn\u2019t know it. I think most men\u2014and women\u2014if they\u2019re there, don\u2019t know it when they\u2019re in it. What you just said: I\u2019m in my 60s, and you know what? It\u2019s not over! I can continue to grow emotionally strong.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Even with grown men now, who are my sons; and with my daughters-in-law) I hope that\u2019s an encouragement\u2014to any man, and mom, listening right now, wherever you are\u2014what you just said, David, it\u2019s like: \u201cYou\u2019re still alive; you can still grow.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And God\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You may need to go back and say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry!\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014to your sons, who are grown men now\u2014I\u2019ve had to do [it] and say, \u201cI didn\u2019t know what I didn\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cI didn\u2019t do it with malicious intent, but I failed in many ways. I\u2019m sorry. Can we go forward from here?\u201d And hopefully, there\u2019s forgiveness there, and you can move forward.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today. We're Ann and Dave Wilson; and we've been talking<\/p>\n<p>with David Thomas, who is pretty great. We've been talking about his book, Raising<\/p>\n<p>Emotionally Healthy Boys.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It's a book you got to get.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And Dave, I'm really glad that you shared that about your relationship with our<\/p>\n<p>boys, because nobody does it perfectly.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, no. We still have conversations, and we always will; but we didn't have<\/p>\n<p>David's book when we're raising our sons. But you can have it: Raising Emotional<\/p>\n<p>Healthy Boys. You want to have this. You've got little boys in the house, or even<\/p>\n<p>teenagers, get it wherever you buy your books\u2014just go to Amazon or wherever\u2014get<\/p>\n<p>that book. It's going to, literally, help you and, maybe, change your legacy.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife.com<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/315100","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=315100"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/312569"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=315100"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=315100"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=315100"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=315100"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=315100"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=315100"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}