{"id":313961,"date":"2025-04-09T07:00:00","date_gmt":"2025-04-09T11:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/finding-faith-over-perfection-in-the-midst-of-a-messy-house-jennifer-pepito\/"},"modified":"2025-06-17T11:03:18","modified_gmt":"2025-06-17T15:03:18","slug":"finding-faith-over-perfection-in-the-midst-of-a-messy-house-jennifer-pepito","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-faith-over-perfection-in-the-midst-of-a-messy-house-jennifer-pepito\/","title":{"rendered":"Finding Faith Over Perfection in the Midst of a Messy House: Jennifer Pepito"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In this episode, Dave and Ann Wilson discuss the concept of a &#8220;sacred home&#8221; and how to cultivate an environment that prioritizes faith, simplicity, and connection over perfection. The episode opens with a humorous and relatable story about Ann&#8217;s embarrassing moment as a young mom when her parents unexpectedly visited and her house was a mess. Despite the chaos, she emphasizes the importance of creating a home where Jesus is at the center, not one that&#8217;s always perfectly tidy.<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer Pepito shares her wisdom on the importance of simplicity in the home and the role women play in setting the tone for a sacred environment. She discusses the importance of decluttering, minimizing distractions, and ensuring that family time and connection with God are prioritized over maintaining a pristine home. This leads to a conversation about the need for balance in life, and Jennifer talks about the nine habits of rural life that bring peace and stability to mothers. One example she shares is the story of Madeleine L&#8217;Engle, who, despite personal struggles, maintained her commitment to faith and family, illustrating that balance can help moms navigate the chaos of life.<\/p>\n<p>The conversation turns to the topic of forgiveness, both in terms of personal relationships and the necessity of forgiving oneself as a mother. The hosts reflect on how unforgiveness can create bitterness, affecting both personal well-being and family dynamics. They share examples of how bitterness has affected families and relationships, noting that letting go of anger and resentment is crucial for fostering a sacred home environment.<\/p>\n<p>The episode also explores the topic of simplicity, specifically how it can help reduce distractions and allow for more meaningful connection with God and family. The hosts discuss how the culture of busyness, particularly in America, often leads to the accumulation of excess stuff, which becomes overwhelming. Instead, they suggest practicing simplicity by minimizing possessions and focusing on the things that truly matter: family, faith, and purpose.<\/p>\n<p>Finally, Dave and Ann touch on the importance of prayer in creating a sacred home. They share the story of Amy Carmichael, a missionary who was deeply committed to prayer and sought to create a sanctuary for those she served. They emphasize the importance of making prayer a daily priority, even in the midst of a busy family life, and how doing so can align a mother\u2019s heart with God&#8217;s purposes. The episode concludes with an invitation to dive deeper into the principles shared in Jennifer&#8217;s book, Habits for a Sacred Home, which offers practical advice for living a faith-centered life in the home.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>It can be hard to find footing in the midst of a messy house. Author Jennier Pepito shares how faith and simplicity are keys to building a sacred home.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":312569,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/a320b5c8-92b4-4031-899b-b2ab011324cf\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:00","filesize":"22.02M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2025-04-09 07:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2934],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[10971],"cwp_profile":[10970],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-313961","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-relationships","podcast_series-sacred-home-jennifer-pepito","cwp_profile-jennifer-pepito","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/313961\/finding-faith-over-perfection-in-the-midst-of-a-messy-house-jennifer-pepito","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/313961\/finding-faith-over-perfection-in-the-midst-of-a-messy-house-jennifer-pepito","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"GIvsSanKPC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-faith-over-perfection-in-the-midst-of-a-messy-house-jennifer-pepito\/\">Finding Faith Over Perfection in the Midst of a Messy House: Jennifer Pepito<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-faith-over-perfection-in-the-midst-of-a-messy-house-jennifer-pepito\/embed\/#?secret=GIvsSanKPC\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Finding Faith Over Perfection in the Midst of a Messy House: Jennifer Pepito&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"GIvsSanKPC\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["a320b5c8-92b4-4031-899b-b2ab011324cf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/a320b5c8-92b4-4031-899b-b2ab011324cf\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:24:00"],"filesize":["22.02M"],"_thumbnail_id":["312569"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jenniferpepito\">Follow Jennifer Pepito on Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Learn more about \"<a href=\"https:\/\/thepeacefulpress.com\/pages\/restoration-home-community\">The Restoration Home<\/a>\" community, listen to Jennifer's podcast, and find her book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-9-practices-from-history-to-anchor-and-restore-modern-families\">Habits for a Sacred Home<\/a>\" on our shop.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/?s=resurrection+eggs&amp;post_type=product\">Experience the Easter story with Resurrection Eggs<\/a> and explore more resources in our shop<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-04-09.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><\/strong><strong><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/strong> <strong>with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Finding Faith Over Perfection in the Midst of a Messy House<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Guest:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jennifer Pepito<\/p>\n<p>From the series:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sacred Home (Day 3 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 April 9, 2025<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What we are doing as moms is life-changing; it is so powerful. This is not some small thing. I think sometimes we take parenting\u2014there's this dichotomy\u2014because on the one hand, we don't control the outcome; we can't put our identity in parenting; it's a walk of faith. But on the other hand, it's a high and sacred calling; it's worth our time and attention. If God gives you these treasures, then put a little time, and energy, and prayer into raising them up for the Lord as a sacred calling.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 One of my most embarrassing moments, as a young mom, was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love embarrassing moments. I don't even know what you're going to say, but I know I'm going to love it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I have to frame it a little bit. My mom was the cleanest person I've ever met; everything was perfect in our house. My dad was very much like a perfectionist. They decided to surprise me one day, and drive four hours to come and see me, without telling me. The house was an absolute wreck! If you have toddlers, there's food on the floor; there's junk all over. I had a pile of laundry that was so high.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We had two dogs.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 My mom and dad looked at the house: \u201cWhat is happening here?\u201d But I'm trying to raise our kids, focused on Jesus; we're praying\u2014it's chaos, but that was the hope\u2014it is Jesus-centered. I felt like such a failure; and my dad never let me live that down, ever! He's like, \u201cRemember when we came to your house, and it looked like a tornado came through?\u201d But I said, \u201cYeah; but at least, we're seeking Jesus every day.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The reason I bring that up\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I want to know: \u201cWhat's the reason for this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014is because we're talking about a sacred home and what that looks like. Sometimes, we can think of sacred as being perfect. As we've been talking the last two days, that's not at all what it necessarily means.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; we got Jennifer Pepito back in. It's fun to say your name; you know what I mean? Ours is so boring: Wilson. Pepto\u2014that is a pretty cool name.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exciting.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What was your maiden name?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Gy\u00f3ri; it was Hungarian. It\u2019s spelled G-Y-O-R-I.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You went up; you went up.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that one's pretty cool, though.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You guys won't believe it\u2014when I was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I'm real proud of the heritage.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I loved your story; it highlights you might be living a less sacred home if it's perfectly clean all the time. I love the atmosphere of the home; I feel like it is part of the teacher:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>If you can, get rid of some stuff; so it's easier to clean up.<\/li>\n<li>If you can, minimize the toys; your kids can pick up after themselves.<\/li>\n<li>If you can, don't buy as much so you don't have as much to put away.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If you're spending all your time cleaning\u2014and you're not at all looking your kids in the eyes, or connecting with them, or connecting with God\u2014then it's not very sacred, honestly. It might be clean and tidy, but that's not what this is about. This is about having homes that are consecrated to God.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; you said that on the first day. We took a little break before this third one. I was in the restroom; I get my best ideas in the restroom.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014the sound of water.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I thought,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, goodness!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014\"We talked about this the first day: you think sacred home is this perfect little home. We thought it was like: [Playing guitar and singing] \u2018Sweet home that is sacred, where the kids always obey.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's pretty impressive that you came up with that in the bathroom!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I thought, \u201cThat is sort of where we were the first day; it's like, \u2018Does sacred mean tidy?\u2014never a laundry-high thing?\u2019 No; it's these nine habits of rule of life. We've already established that.\u201d If you missed it, go back; because these were life-changing, I believe. I wish we would've heard\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It brings hope to a mom, especially.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; when we had little boys, I wish we'd have heard this.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you know what? I mentioned earlier that one of my favorite habits is balance. So there's stewardship, and simplicity, and prayer, and work\u2014all these habits\u2014but one of my favorites is balance. And the person I use as the hero of the chapter is Madeleine L\u2019Engle, which I don't think many of us would look to as a Christian hero. I don't think many of us would be like, \u201cOh, she's an icon of godly motherhood.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wait; tell us who she is.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She wrote <em>A Wrinkle in Time<\/em> series. Actually, at the time that she was writing, she got a lot of flak from Christians for them being a little out there.<\/p>\n<p>But she was a dedicated Christian. She was reading her Bible, morning and night, and spending time in her church; but at the same time, there's a lot of chaos in her family\u2014she had a grandchild who was in a serious accident; I think a son was an alcoholic\u2014and so there was a lot of chaos. But she kept doing those Christian practices and kept confessing: \u201cJesus is Lord,\u201d in the midst of those trials. I think that is really important for moms to recognize.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I have friends who are going through it; my family has been through it. Things are not perfect\u2014we've had our trials, and our failures, and our experiences, where we could have lost hope\u2014but instead of just recognizing that I'm saved by grace, and start living a licentious life; or trying to just keep on doing works, and putting all the effort into my behavior\u2014there's this balancing act, where we just continually lean on the Lord.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>This is in both of my books: I've talked a lot about forgiveness because I think it was a big key for me shifting from an identity that was based on my works to an identity that was in Christ. I've made a practice even at forgiving myself. I think, as moms\u2014like I mentioned a few days ago\u2014when we start making mistakes as a mom, it's easy to identify by our mistakes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>For me, instead of doing that, I began to have a practice of saying, \u201cGod, thank You for forgiving me of all my sins. And because of Your forgiveness, I choose to forgive myself\u201d; I'm receiving His grace. I'll even name some of the things that I've done that has made me feel those feelings of unrest, like: \u201cGod, I forgive myself for neglecting my child this morning,\u201d \u201cI forgive myself for yelling at my child.\u201d I yelled at my kids; I made all the same mistakes that you might be feeling or making right now.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How important do you feel it is for a mom\u2014and it would be for dad\u2014to forgive someone who\u2019s hurt you? You're talking about forgiving yourself, but somebody else. To create a sacred home, how important is that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You mentioned yesterday you had some trauma in your past. I don't want to go there, but I sort of want to go there; it's like: \u201cHave you had to forgive?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's such a good question. There's a verse\u2014I've been doing a lot of study on this\u2014there's a verse that says, \u201cDon't let the sun go down on your wrath.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Ephesians 4:[26].<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because the devil could get a foothold.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014a foothold; right. And there's a saying\u2014I love this saying; it says\u2014\u201cBitterness is like drinking poison and waiting for your enemy to die.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We're so easily-offended today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes! And it's a crusher for our relationship with God; because the more we hold onto offence, the harder it is for us to experience God. It's not about\u2014you don't have to necessarily be in relationship with somebody who's a perpetrator\u2014forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. I can forgive the person who molested me when I was six years old, but I'm never going to have a relationship with that person.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think, too, as you're talking about that, Jennifer, it can be right next door. I remember going to bed feeling angry, feeling guilty, feeling shame about what I did as a parent that day. I wrestled with that. But the other thing that was going on\u2014it wasn't a huge forgiveness thing\u2014I was mad at Dave a lot, and I was blaming him.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014a lot. And I deserved it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He's right next to me in the bed. What I realized: it was sucking the energy\/the life because I wasn't necessarily forgiving him before the sun went down, or doing it quickly.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If we allow bitterness to take root\u2014now, my focus on my kids\u2014I'm thinking about all the ways Dave has offended me. Do you know what I mean? So I'm not necessarily totally present with my kids; I've got this bitterness and this root of unforgiveness; and that matters. It may not be this tragic thing that happened to you in the past, but it could be just something your husband said today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 When that's in a sacred home, how do you deal with it?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that both of you mentioned that; and especially, talking about how easy it is to blame someone else. You guys talked about that on the last episode too. That is part of why I really want moms to get a vision. Get a vision for the kind of person [you want to be]. If you think you're a victim\u2014if you think you are victimized by the people around you\u2014you're going to behave differently than if you think: \u201cI'm like Corrie ten Boom. I go into hard situations, and I handle them with grace,\u201d \u201cI'm like Amy Carmichael. I suffer in bed for years and years; and I write books, helping people know how to suffer and still lean on the Lord.\u201d If your identity is clear, then you can behave aligned with that identity, even when the struggles come, which they will.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I'm thinking of the Apostle Paul: think about the years he spent in prison. He could have felt like, \u201cGod, You abandoned me. What am I doing here?\u201d If he would've gone that route, we wouldn't have most of the New Testament.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think you're right\u2014it's: \u201cWhere are our eyes?\u201d\u2014are we the victim? Or can we say, \u201cLord, You've placed me here. What do You want me to do? What do You want me to see? How can I serve You in this situation?\u201d That's really good. I like that stability too; that's important.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I want to talk about simplicity. What does that look like? We live in a world\u2014that is so not simple\u2014the more you're doing, the better you are. We brag about it: \u201cI barely had time to eat today.\u201d It's like: \u201cOh, you're the man!\u201d \u201cYou're the woman!\u201d \u201cWay to go!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is a good one for you.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay; that's probably why I'm bringing it up. I can run in a lot of directions all at once; I'm juggling a lot of things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And I do the same.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And simplicity is not a value. Why should it be a value?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think, for me, it's a value because the more I carve out simplicity, the more connected I am to God. When I'm super busy, then I'm more likely to numb out in the downtime; because I'm overwhelmed or overstimulated. And then, my connection to God, my children, and my husband is diminished.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think this also connects for women with their hormones. I know this isn't a health podcast or something; but sometimes, women get ourselves so busy when we actually should be carving out a little bit of space. And then, if we simplify our lives, we could be nicer to the people around us. The hero of that chapter is Sabina Wurmbrand. She was imprisoned by the Communists in Romania.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I've never heard of her.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Her husband, Richard Wurmbrand; she and her husband started The Voice of the Martyrs organization.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, that's right; yes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They originally were ministering to people in Communist countries; and then, later on to people around the world. She was imprisoned for her faith, so her simplicity was kind of a forced simplicity. But even afterwards, her husband was still in prison\u2014the Communists were saying, \u201cDivorce your husband, and you can have stuff again. We'll give you access to fine things,\u201d\u2014and her status\/her social status could have been raised if she had divorced her Christian husband, who was still in jail for preaching the gospel. Basically, she could have chosen comfort over this forced simplicity.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The Bible says: \u201cBetter is one day in Your court than a thousand elsewhere\u201d; I think she got that. I think, sometimes, we don't get it because we're so distracted by all this stuff. Sometimes, we don't understand that, in His presence is fullness of joy, because we haven't given ourselves time to experience that; because we're so busy buying stuff; and then, organizing this stuff that we bought.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I had this one summer where I was traveling a lot; I had a new book out. I got back, and we were trying to organize our house for a move. We were moving to an Airbnb for a little while. I was like, \u201cWhat is all this stuff in my kids' bedroom?\u201d There was so much stuff in the closet, under the bed, in the drawers. I was just completely overwhelmed by it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Part of that was a lack of good habits, leading up to it. Because if we had a better habit of stewardship of our things, leading up to that\u2014if we had a better habit of: \u201cOkay, if you can't take care of the stuff you have, maybe you shouldn't have more stuff,\u201d\u2014in my mom groups, I encourage moms: \u201cDon't have out more toys than your kids can pick up. That's just doing yourself a disservice if they can't take care of their stuff. Just have less stuff.\u201d But I wasn't practicing what I preached there. So there's this big overwhelming circumstance of trying to sort through all this stuff with my son who, at this point, was overwhelmed himself; and just recognizing: \u201cWow, I spent a whole day of my life organizing this. We could have been on a hike; we could have been having a meal together. There's a lot of things we could have done aside from organizing all day.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But that is what we're doing so often in this culture: we're just constantly buying new things; and then, we have to organize this stuff. We see something on Instagram; we're like, \u201cI need to buy this,\u201d even though we have a lot of other things just like it. And then, so much time that could be spent connecting with God, or our children, or our husband, is spent sorting our stuff.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think we're running away from things. We're numbing out on things we don't want to face\u2014some of the realities\u2014and that's our go-to.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It should be a dashboard light flashing when we realize: \u201cI have so much stuff; it doesn't fit in my huge house, so I need a storage unit.\u201d We have the biggest houses in the world\u2014not saying we do, but Americans\u2014and we have storage units; that's not simplicity. So what does that look like in your home?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Simplicity doesn't matter\u2014except that, if our value is to be a connected family; if our value is to nurture children who love God; if our value is to raise people, who are responsible with their things\u2014then, simplicity becomes a habit that we should work towards.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>In our home\u2014for one thing, we move a lot\u2014we have been involved in Christian missions and serving in communities, so we've had enough moves that there is a fairly constant purging of the unused items. But also, we're pretty careful about what we buy. We do think about the impact on the world of some of the things that we buy, or some of the places that we buy from. We don't shop as recreation; we go on a hike together as recreation; or we go\u2014we're in Florida; we spent the day yesterday trying to spot an alligator\u2014we were going on all these little nature trails and stuff, trying to see if we could spot an alligator. So we definitely make\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m guessing you did.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We did not yet, but we're going to go to Alligator Alley this afternoon.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They're going to see it in Alligator Alley. So today will be the day.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, you\u2019ll see them.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The way you spend your time shows your values. And this is why we always are going back to: \u201cWhat's your vision?\u201d and \u201cAudit your time.\u201d Because if you say that your value is people and connection, and spending time with God, or doing ministry, or whatever you say your value is\u2014but you spend all your time watching shows and scrolling Instagram reels\u2014your values and your actual daily life doesn't line up. So how could you just adjust that a little bit to make more time?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I have mostly adults living in my home. It is a little harder to all gather and do this romantic morning time that we did for all those years. \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But I'll stand, in the hallway at the top of the stairs, and we'll all say the Apostles Creed or the Lord's prayer together. I'll stand in the hallway, and I'll read the Bible out loud; because I'm not necessarily in a stage of life where I can gather everyone for hours-long of reading aloud by the fire like we did when they were younger. But I'm also in a consecrated home, and so I'll make some effort every day to nurture my children's spiritual development. They all have their own spiritual disciplines at this point, but it's still my monastery; it's still my sacred home. So I'm still going to take the time to show them: \u201cThat's a value for me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You get that stir stick in the ground, saying, \u201cI\u2019m taking this home for Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let\u2019s talk\u2014let's finish out\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I want to ask one quick one: \u201cWhat did you do about youth sports?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We didn't do a lot. My son plays rugby right now. Another son did a season of football. We did a little bit of it; but\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That is a huge distraction idol. You talk about simplicity: many families I know are running from one soccer game to the orchestra concert. Again, these are all good things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I was going to say, \u201cThose are really\/they can be great things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But they hardly sit down and even have a meal together, because there\u2019s not the time to do that. When our kids were playing football, Ann said, \u201cWe're going to have a meal every night, so we're going to wait until after practice\u201d; and we still did it. But some families don't even do that; because they're so; it's like, \u201cThis is how you raise a family\u201d. And you're saying: \u201cIt doesn't have to be that way.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And use car time. We listened to the Dwell App Bible out loud on the way up this morning; use car time. Use the in-between moments to look your kids in the eyes and assure them of your love.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think there's so much to be gained from some of these community activities\u2014like orchestra, or sports, or whatever it is\u2014\u201cBut are your values being instituted in your family?\u201d; because I think the danger is thinking you have to do the same thing. We had a heart for mission, so we wanted to be able to do short-term missions. We lived as full-time missionaries for a while; that was a priority. And we also had a heart for sort of country life\u2014living in the country, and having gardens, and simple living\u2014those things precluded sports for us, in general, because those were our values.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think, when people try to do too much, that's when you really get in trouble\u2014you're doing multiple sports; and you're trying to homestead also; and you're also trying to do music lessons\u2014that's where you can really get in over your head and cause even some breakdown and burnout.<\/p>\n<p>But if you can pace yourselves\u2014maybe just choose one thing at a time\u2014or make sure you go back to the values of the rule of life. We actually have a rule-of-life template that people can access the Canva.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Throughout the book, at the end of each chapter, there's a chance to write down: \u201cOkay, simplicity is a value; so our goal here is we're going to not buy something new unless we get rid of something,\u201d or \u201cWork is a value; and so we're going to institute three basic chores every day,\u201d or \u201cPrayer is a value\u2026\u201d At the end of the chapter, you can write down what that rule of life is going to be for your family and really start to get some practical applications on it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let's finish by talking about prayer; because with a busy family, with things going on, how do we make that a priority? And why Amy Carmichael as your example?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Of course, Amy Carmichael. It's interesting because, in there, I include a letter that she wrote.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Tell us who she is first.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Amy Carmichael was a missionary in India.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And how long ago was this?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This was around the turn of the century; I think late 1800s.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This was a big deal for a woman to be a missionary in India.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She was rescuing people from sex trafficking is what she was doing, so she was doing something very intense.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014dangerous.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She had a whole school; she was bringing these girls into a home. She was mentoring native Indian people to take care of the women, and they're still going on today. I wrote\u2014it's called Dohnavur Fellowship\u2014I wrote them to ask about their spiritual disciplines today. They still gather twice a day in this home for prayer, over a hundred years after she started.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow; wow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Incredible.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s so incredible. And she would write letters. Some of the inspiration that I have from her is through letters that she was writing, maybe, to her supporters; maybe to the people who worked with her. She says\u2014it's in the book\u2014she says, \u201cWe must be active in prayer. We must be diligent in prayer, because we are touching the very center of the devil's kingdom and power. And we must, not only pray, but also listen; and do not resist even a hint of direction from the Holy Spirit.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think that is so important for moms: we are touching the very center of the devil's kingdom. The devil would not like there to be strong families, because strong families are the foundation for strong churches. If you don't have strong churches, you don't have strong communities. And so what we are doing as moms is life-changing; it is culture-restoring. It is so powerful, and it has to be done with prayer.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I would put that prayer on my wall, because this is not some small thing. I think sometimes we take parenting\u2014there's this dichotomy\u2014because on the one hand, we don't control the outcome. We can't put our identity in parenting. We can't be assured of how it's going to turn out. It's a walk of faith. But on the other hand, it's a high and sacred calling; it's worth our time and attention; it's worth putting effort into. If God gives you these arrows in the hands of a warrior, or these treasures, then put a little time, and energy, and prayer into raising them up for the Lord, as an offering to Jesus, as a ministry, as a sacred calling.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How do we do that, practically speaking? You've done this.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 By the way, that was inspiring right there.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was so inspiring!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That felt like a call to action: \u201cLet's go kick off, and beat somebody; I'm going to win this game.\u201d That was great.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was so good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 These kids need us to be there.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 As a mom, you might want to replay that every day, as you wake up in the morning, as a reminder of: \u201cThis is what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's important.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's a high call.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It is a high call. It's as important as any missionary on the field, any pastor in a church. This is our little flock that we are called to minister to.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think, many times, it's more important; because we are shaping the future through our kids. That's a big deal.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Hey, if you need more help, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp. Again, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1750172698:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_9067434fe8d5166897573792122a33f1c584d396":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_9067434fe8d5166897573792122a33f1c584d396":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:106:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] Finding Faith Over Perfection in the Midst of a Messy House: Jennifer 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";s:10:\"1776600200\";s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"It can be hard to find footing in the midst of a messy house. Author Jennier Pepito shares how faith and simplicity are keys to building a sacred home.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jenniferpepito\">Follow Jennifer Pepito on Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Learn more about \"<a href=\"https:\/\/thepeacefulpress.com\/pages\/restoration-home-community\">The Restoration Home<\/a>\" community, listen to Jennifer's podcast, and find her book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-9-practices-from-history-to-anchor-and-restore-modern-families\">Habits for a Sacred Home<\/a>\" on our shop.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/?s=resurrection+eggs&amp;post_type=product\">Experience the Easter story with Resurrection Eggs<\/a> and explore more resources in our shop<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-04-09.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><\/strong><strong><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/strong> <strong>with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Finding Faith Over Perfection in the Midst of a Messy House<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Guest:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jennifer Pepito<\/p>\n<p>From the series:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sacred Home (Day 3 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 April 9, 2025<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What we are doing as moms is life-changing; it is so powerful. This is not some small thing. I think sometimes we take parenting\u2014there's this dichotomy\u2014because on the one hand, we don't control the outcome; we can't put our identity in parenting; it's a walk of faith. But on the other hand, it's a high and sacred calling; it's worth our time and attention. If God gives you these treasures, then put a little time, and energy, and prayer into raising them up for the Lord as a sacred calling.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 One of my most embarrassing moments, as a young mom, was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love embarrassing moments. I don't even know what you're going to say, but I know I'm going to love it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I have to frame it a little bit. My mom was the cleanest person I've ever met; everything was perfect in our house. My dad was very much like a perfectionist. They decided to surprise me one day, and drive four hours to come and see me, without telling me. The house was an absolute wreck! If you have toddlers, there's food on the floor; there's junk all over. I had a pile of laundry that was so high.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We had two dogs.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 My mom and dad looked at the house: \u201cWhat is happening here?\u201d But I'm trying to raise our kids, focused on Jesus; we're praying\u2014it's chaos, but that was the hope\u2014it is Jesus-centered. I felt like such a failure; and my dad never let me live that down, ever! He's like, \u201cRemember when we came to your house, and it looked like a tornado came through?\u201d But I said, \u201cYeah; but at least, we're seeking Jesus every day.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The reason I bring that up\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I want to know: \u201cWhat's the reason for this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014is because we're talking about a sacred home and what that looks like. Sometimes, we can think of sacred as being perfect. As we've been talking the last two days, that's not at all what it necessarily means.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; we got Jennifer Pepito back in. It's fun to say your name; you know what I mean? Ours is so boring: Wilson. Pepto\u2014that is a pretty cool name.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exciting.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What was your maiden name?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Gy\u00f3ri; it was Hungarian. It\u2019s spelled G-Y-O-R-I.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You went up; you went up.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that one's pretty cool, though.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You guys won't believe it\u2014when I was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I'm real proud of the heritage.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I loved your story; it highlights you might be living a less sacred home if it's perfectly clean all the time. I love the atmosphere of the home; I feel like it is part of the teacher:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>If you can, get rid of some stuff; so it's easier to clean up.<\/li>\n<li>If you can, minimize the toys; your kids can pick up after themselves.<\/li>\n<li>If you can, don't buy as much so you don't have as much to put away.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If you're spending all your time cleaning\u2014and you're not at all looking your kids in the eyes, or connecting with them, or connecting with God\u2014then it's not very sacred, honestly. It might be clean and tidy, but that's not what this is about. This is about having homes that are consecrated to God.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; you said that on the first day. We took a little break before this third one. I was in the restroom; I get my best ideas in the restroom.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014the sound of water.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I thought,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, goodness!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014\"We talked about this the first day: you think sacred home is this perfect little home. We thought it was like: [Playing guitar and singing] \u2018Sweet home that is sacred, where the kids always obey.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's pretty impressive that you came up with that in the bathroom!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I thought, \u201cThat is sort of where we were the first day; it's like, \u2018Does sacred mean tidy?\u2014never a laundry-high thing?\u2019 No; it's these nine habits of rule of life. We've already established that.\u201d If you missed it, go back; because these were life-changing, I believe. I wish we would've heard\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It brings hope to a mom, especially.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; when we had little boys, I wish we'd have heard this.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you know what? I mentioned earlier that one of my favorite habits is balance. So there's stewardship, and simplicity, and prayer, and work\u2014all these habits\u2014but one of my favorites is balance. And the person I use as the hero of the chapter is Madeleine L\u2019Engle, which I don't think many of us would look to as a Christian hero. I don't think many of us would be like, \u201cOh, she's an icon of godly motherhood.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wait; tell us who she is.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She wrote <em>A Wrinkle in Time<\/em> series. Actually, at the time that she was writing, she got a lot of flak from Christians for them being a little out there.<\/p>\n<p>But she was a dedicated Christian. She was reading her Bible, morning and night, and spending time in her church; but at the same time, there's a lot of chaos in her family\u2014she had a grandchild who was in a serious accident; I think a son was an alcoholic\u2014and so there was a lot of chaos. But she kept doing those Christian practices and kept confessing: \u201cJesus is Lord,\u201d in the midst of those trials. I think that is really important for moms to recognize.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I have friends who are going through it; my family has been through it. Things are not perfect\u2014we've had our trials, and our failures, and our experiences, where we could have lost hope\u2014but instead of just recognizing that I'm saved by grace, and start living a licentious life; or trying to just keep on doing works, and putting all the effort into my behavior\u2014there's this balancing act, where we just continually lean on the Lord.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>This is in both of my books: I've talked a lot about forgiveness because I think it was a big key for me shifting from an identity that was based on my works to an identity that was in Christ. I've made a practice even at forgiving myself. I think, as moms\u2014like I mentioned a few days ago\u2014when we start making mistakes as a mom, it's easy to identify by our mistakes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>For me, instead of doing that, I began to have a practice of saying, \u201cGod, thank You for forgiving me of all my sins. And because of Your forgiveness, I choose to forgive myself\u201d; I'm receiving His grace. I'll even name some of the things that I've done that has made me feel those feelings of unrest, like: \u201cGod, I forgive myself for neglecting my child this morning,\u201d \u201cI forgive myself for yelling at my child.\u201d I yelled at my kids; I made all the same mistakes that you might be feeling or making right now.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How important do you feel it is for a mom\u2014and it would be for dad\u2014to forgive someone who\u2019s hurt you? You're talking about forgiving yourself, but somebody else. To create a sacred home, how important is that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You mentioned yesterday you had some trauma in your past. I don't want to go there, but I sort of want to go there; it's like: \u201cHave you had to forgive?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's such a good question. There's a verse\u2014I've been doing a lot of study on this\u2014there's a verse that says, \u201cDon't let the sun go down on your wrath.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Ephesians 4:[26].<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because the devil could get a foothold.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014a foothold; right. And there's a saying\u2014I love this saying; it says\u2014\u201cBitterness is like drinking poison and waiting for your enemy to die.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We're so easily-offended today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes! And it's a crusher for our relationship with God; because the more we hold onto offence, the harder it is for us to experience God. It's not about\u2014you don't have to necessarily be in relationship with somebody who's a perpetrator\u2014forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. I can forgive the person who molested me when I was six years old, but I'm never going to have a relationship with that person.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think, too, as you're talking about that, Jennifer, it can be right next door. I remember going to bed feeling angry, feeling guilty, feeling shame about what I did as a parent that day. I wrestled with that. But the other thing that was going on\u2014it wasn't a huge forgiveness thing\u2014I was mad at Dave a lot, and I was blaming him.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014a lot. And I deserved it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He's right next to me in the bed. What I realized: it was sucking the energy\/the life because I wasn't necessarily forgiving him before the sun went down, or doing it quickly.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If we allow bitterness to take root\u2014now, my focus on my kids\u2014I'm thinking about all the ways Dave has offended me. Do you know what I mean? So I'm not necessarily totally present with my kids; I've got this bitterness and this root of unforgiveness; and that matters. It may not be this tragic thing that happened to you in the past, but it could be just something your husband said today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 When that's in a sacred home, how do you deal with it?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that both of you mentioned that; and especially, talking about how easy it is to blame someone else. You guys talked about that on the last episode too. That is part of why I really want moms to get a vision. Get a vision for the kind of person [you want to be]. If you think you're a victim\u2014if you think you are victimized by the people around you\u2014you're going to behave differently than if you think: \u201cI'm like Corrie ten Boom. I go into hard situations, and I handle them with grace,\u201d \u201cI'm like Amy Carmichael. I suffer in bed for years and years; and I write books, helping people know how to suffer and still lean on the Lord.\u201d If your identity is clear, then you can behave aligned with that identity, even when the struggles come, which they will.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I'm thinking of the Apostle Paul: think about the years he spent in prison. He could have felt like, \u201cGod, You abandoned me. What am I doing here?\u201d If he would've gone that route, we wouldn't have most of the New Testament.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think you're right\u2014it's: \u201cWhere are our eyes?\u201d\u2014are we the victim? Or can we say, \u201cLord, You've placed me here. What do You want me to do? What do You want me to see? How can I serve You in this situation?\u201d That's really good. I like that stability too; that's important.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I want to talk about simplicity. What does that look like? We live in a world\u2014that is so not simple\u2014the more you're doing, the better you are. We brag about it: \u201cI barely had time to eat today.\u201d It's like: \u201cOh, you're the man!\u201d \u201cYou're the woman!\u201d \u201cWay to go!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is a good one for you.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay; that's probably why I'm bringing it up. I can run in a lot of directions all at once; I'm juggling a lot of things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And I do the same.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And simplicity is not a value. Why should it be a value?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think, for me, it's a value because the more I carve out simplicity, the more connected I am to God. When I'm super busy, then I'm more likely to numb out in the downtime; because I'm overwhelmed or overstimulated. And then, my connection to God, my children, and my husband is diminished.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think this also connects for women with their hormones. I know this isn't a health podcast or something; but sometimes, women get ourselves so busy when we actually should be carving out a little bit of space. And then, if we simplify our lives, we could be nicer to the people around us. The hero of that chapter is Sabina Wurmbrand. She was imprisoned by the Communists in Romania.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I've never heard of her.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Her husband, Richard Wurmbrand; she and her husband started The Voice of the Martyrs organization.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, that's right; yes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They originally were ministering to people in Communist countries; and then, later on to people around the world. She was imprisoned for her faith, so her simplicity was kind of a forced simplicity. But even afterwards, her husband was still in prison\u2014the Communists were saying, \u201cDivorce your husband, and you can have stuff again. We'll give you access to fine things,\u201d\u2014and her status\/her social status could have been raised if she had divorced her Christian husband, who was still in jail for preaching the gospel. Basically, she could have chosen comfort over this forced simplicity.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The Bible says: \u201cBetter is one day in Your court than a thousand elsewhere\u201d; I think she got that. I think, sometimes, we don't get it because we're so distracted by all this stuff. Sometimes, we don't understand that, in His presence is fullness of joy, because we haven't given ourselves time to experience that; because we're so busy buying stuff; and then, organizing this stuff that we bought.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I had this one summer where I was traveling a lot; I had a new book out. I got back, and we were trying to organize our house for a move. We were moving to an Airbnb for a little while. I was like, \u201cWhat is all this stuff in my kids' bedroom?\u201d There was so much stuff in the closet, under the bed, in the drawers. I was just completely overwhelmed by it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Part of that was a lack of good habits, leading up to it. Because if we had a better habit of stewardship of our things, leading up to that\u2014if we had a better habit of: \u201cOkay, if you can't take care of the stuff you have, maybe you shouldn't have more stuff,\u201d\u2014in my mom groups, I encourage moms: \u201cDon't have out more toys than your kids can pick up. That's just doing yourself a disservice if they can't take care of their stuff. Just have less stuff.\u201d But I wasn't practicing what I preached there. So there's this big overwhelming circumstance of trying to sort through all this stuff with my son who, at this point, was overwhelmed himself; and just recognizing: \u201cWow, I spent a whole day of my life organizing this. We could have been on a hike; we could have been having a meal together. There's a lot of things we could have done aside from organizing all day.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But that is what we're doing so often in this culture: we're just constantly buying new things; and then, we have to organize this stuff. We see something on Instagram; we're like, \u201cI need to buy this,\u201d even though we have a lot of other things just like it. And then, so much time that could be spent connecting with God, or our children, or our husband, is spent sorting our stuff.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think we're running away from things. We're numbing out on things we don't want to face\u2014some of the realities\u2014and that's our go-to.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It should be a dashboard light flashing when we realize: \u201cI have so much stuff; it doesn't fit in my huge house, so I need a storage unit.\u201d We have the biggest houses in the world\u2014not saying we do, but Americans\u2014and we have storage units; that's not simplicity. So what does that look like in your home?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Simplicity doesn't matter\u2014except that, if our value is to be a connected family; if our value is to nurture children who love God; if our value is to raise people, who are responsible with their things\u2014then, simplicity becomes a habit that we should work towards.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>In our home\u2014for one thing, we move a lot\u2014we have been involved in Christian missions and serving in communities, so we've had enough moves that there is a fairly constant purging of the unused items. But also, we're pretty careful about what we buy. We do think about the impact on the world of some of the things that we buy, or some of the places that we buy from. We don't shop as recreation; we go on a hike together as recreation; or we go\u2014we're in Florida; we spent the day yesterday trying to spot an alligator\u2014we were going on all these little nature trails and stuff, trying to see if we could spot an alligator. So we definitely make\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m guessing you did.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We did not yet, but we're going to go to Alligator Alley this afternoon.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They're going to see it in Alligator Alley. So today will be the day.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, you\u2019ll see them.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The way you spend your time shows your values. And this is why we always are going back to: \u201cWhat's your vision?\u201d and \u201cAudit your time.\u201d Because if you say that your value is people and connection, and spending time with God, or doing ministry, or whatever you say your value is\u2014but you spend all your time watching shows and scrolling Instagram reels\u2014your values and your actual daily life doesn't line up. So how could you just adjust that a little bit to make more time?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I have mostly adults living in my home. It is a little harder to all gather and do this romantic morning time that we did for all those years. \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But I'll stand, in the hallway at the top of the stairs, and we'll all say the Apostles Creed or the Lord's prayer together. I'll stand in the hallway, and I'll read the Bible out loud; because I'm not necessarily in a stage of life where I can gather everyone for hours-long of reading aloud by the fire like we did when they were younger. But I'm also in a consecrated home, and so I'll make some effort every day to nurture my children's spiritual development. They all have their own spiritual disciplines at this point, but it's still my monastery; it's still my sacred home. So I'm still going to take the time to show them: \u201cThat's a value for me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You get that stir stick in the ground, saying, \u201cI\u2019m taking this home for Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let\u2019s talk\u2014let's finish out\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I want to ask one quick one: \u201cWhat did you do about youth sports?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We didn't do a lot. My son plays rugby right now. Another son did a season of football. We did a little bit of it; but\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That is a huge distraction idol. You talk about simplicity: many families I know are running from one soccer game to the orchestra concert. Again, these are all good things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I was going to say, \u201cThose are really\/they can be great things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But they hardly sit down and even have a meal together, because there\u2019s not the time to do that. When our kids were playing football, Ann said, \u201cWe're going to have a meal every night, so we're going to wait until after practice\u201d; and we still did it. But some families don't even do that; because they're so; it's like, \u201cThis is how you raise a family\u201d. And you're saying: \u201cIt doesn't have to be that way.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And use car time. We listened to the Dwell App Bible out loud on the way up this morning; use car time. Use the in-between moments to look your kids in the eyes and assure them of your love.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think there's so much to be gained from some of these community activities\u2014like orchestra, or sports, or whatever it is\u2014\u201cBut are your values being instituted in your family?\u201d; because I think the danger is thinking you have to do the same thing. We had a heart for mission, so we wanted to be able to do short-term missions. We lived as full-time missionaries for a while; that was a priority. And we also had a heart for sort of country life\u2014living in the country, and having gardens, and simple living\u2014those things precluded sports for us, in general, because those were our values.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think, when people try to do too much, that's when you really get in trouble\u2014you're doing multiple sports; and you're trying to homestead also; and you're also trying to do music lessons\u2014that's where you can really get in over your head and cause even some breakdown and burnout.<\/p>\n<p>But if you can pace yourselves\u2014maybe just choose one thing at a time\u2014or make sure you go back to the values of the rule of life. We actually have a rule-of-life template that people can access the Canva.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Throughout the book, at the end of each chapter, there's a chance to write down: \u201cOkay, simplicity is a value; so our goal here is we're going to not buy something new unless we get rid of something,\u201d or \u201cWork is a value; and so we're going to institute three basic chores every day,\u201d or \u201cPrayer is a value\u2026\u201d At the end of the chapter, you can write down what that rule of life is going to be for your family and really start to get some practical applications on it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let's finish by talking about prayer; because with a busy family, with things going on, how do we make that a priority? And why Amy Carmichael as your example?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Of course, Amy Carmichael. It's interesting because, in there, I include a letter that she wrote.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Tell us who she is first.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Amy Carmichael was a missionary in India.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And how long ago was this?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This was around the turn of the century; I think late 1800s.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This was a big deal for a woman to be a missionary in India.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She was rescuing people from sex trafficking is what she was doing, so she was doing something very intense.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014dangerous.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She had a whole school; she was bringing these girls into a home. She was mentoring native Indian people to take care of the women, and they're still going on today. I wrote\u2014it's called Dohnavur Fellowship\u2014I wrote them to ask about their spiritual disciplines today. They still gather twice a day in this home for prayer, over a hundred years after she started.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow; wow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Incredible.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s so incredible. And she would write letters. Some of the inspiration that I have from her is through letters that she was writing, maybe, to her supporters; maybe to the people who worked with her. She says\u2014it's in the book\u2014she says, \u201cWe must be active in prayer. We must be diligent in prayer, because we are touching the very center of the devil's kingdom and power. And we must, not only pray, but also listen; and do not resist even a hint of direction from the Holy Spirit.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think that is so important for moms: we are touching the very center of the devil's kingdom. The devil would not like there to be strong families, because strong families are the foundation for strong churches. If you don't have strong churches, you don't have strong communities. And so what we are doing as moms is life-changing; it is culture-restoring. It is so powerful, and it has to be done with prayer.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I would put that prayer on my wall, because this is not some small thing. I think sometimes we take parenting\u2014there's this dichotomy\u2014because on the one hand, we don't control the outcome. We can't put our identity in parenting. We can't be assured of how it's going to turn out. It's a walk of faith. But on the other hand, it's a high and sacred calling; it's worth our time and attention; it's worth putting effort into. If God gives you these arrows in the hands of a warrior, or these treasures, then put a little time, and energy, and prayer into raising them up for the Lord, as an offering to Jesus, as a ministry, as a sacred calling.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How do we do that, practically speaking? You've done this.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 By the way, that was inspiring right there.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was so inspiring!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That felt like a call to action: \u201cLet's go kick off, and beat somebody; I'm going to win this game.\u201d That was great.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was so good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 These kids need us to be there.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 As a mom, you might want to replay that every day, as you wake up in the morning, as a reminder of: \u201cThis is what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's important.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's a high call.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It is a high call. It's as important as any missionary on the field, any pastor in a church. This is our little flock that we are called to minister to.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think, many times, it's more important; because we are shaping the future through our kids. That's a big deal.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Hey, if you need more help, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp. Again, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2025 FamilyLife. 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