{"id":313924,"date":"2025-04-07T07:00:00","date_gmt":"2025-04-07T11:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-finding-peace-and-purpose-in-motherhood-jennifer-pepito\/"},"modified":"2025-06-17T11:03:39","modified_gmt":"2025-06-17T15:03:39","slug":"habits-for-a-sacred-home-finding-peace-and-purpose-in-motherhood-jennifer-pepito","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-finding-peace-and-purpose-in-motherhood-jennifer-pepito\/","title":{"rendered":"Habits for a Sacred Home &#8211; Finding Peace and Purpose in Motherhood: Jennifer Pepito"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In this podcast episode, Dave and Ann Wilson discuss the concept of a &#8220;sacred home&#8221; with Jennifer Pepito, a mother, author, and entrepreneur. Jennifer, who has seven children and has been homeschooling for years, shares her journey and insights into creating a home environment rooted in faith and devotion to God. She introduces her book &#8220;Habits for a Sacred Home,&#8221; which draws inspiration from the Rule of St. Benedict, focusing on developing habits that bring peace, structure, and connection in the midst of life\u2019s chaos.<\/p>\n<p>The conversation explores the challenges of motherhood, particularly raising children in today\u2019s uncertain world. Jennifer speaks candidly about the struggles of fear, control, and perfectionism, emphasizing the importance of consecrating one\u2019s home to God. Through personal stories, such as her own struggles with perfectionism and a challenging experience with her daughter\u2019s eating disorder, she highlights the significance of grace and attunement to God in creating a peaceful home environment.<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer also addresses the fears and anxieties modern moms face, from worries about homeschooling to concerns over societal changes. Despite the chaotic nature of family life, Jennifer encourages moms to build spiritual disciplines and healthy habits that align with God&#8217;s will for their lives. She stresses that living with a Christ-centered perspective helps moms foster stability, hope, and a sense of purpose in their homes.<\/p>\n<p>In addition to personal insights, the episode delves into practical advice on nurturing sacred homes. Topics like prayer, connecting with children, setting boundaries, and cultivating routines based on faith are discussed. The conversation also touches on the idea of &#8220;sacred chaos,&#8221; suggesting that while homes may not always be perfect, they can still be holy and dedicated to the Lord. The episode encourages listeners to surrender their homes to God, marking them as consecrated spaces where His presence can dwell.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Creating a sacred home takes time, practice, and patience. Author Jennifer Pepito discusses the habits required to find peace in the midst of the chaos.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":312569,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/0b09de62-6b31-423c-838c-b2ab011324d0\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:02","filesize":"24.79M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2025-04-07 07:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2866],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[10971],"cwp_profile":[10970],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-313924","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spiritual-disciplines-essentials-faith","podcast_series-sacred-home-jennifer-pepito","cwp_profile-jennifer-pepito","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/313924\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-finding-peace-and-purpose-in-motherhood-jennifer-pepito","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/313924\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-finding-peace-and-purpose-in-motherhood-jennifer-pepito","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"7Q86dEAm5s\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-finding-peace-and-purpose-in-motherhood-jennifer-pepito\/\">Habits for a Sacred Home &#8211; Finding Peace and Purpose in Motherhood: Jennifer Pepito<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-finding-peace-and-purpose-in-motherhood-jennifer-pepito\/embed\/#?secret=7Q86dEAm5s\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Habits for a Sacred Home &#8211; Finding Peace and Purpose in Motherhood: Jennifer Pepito&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"7Q86dEAm5s\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["0b09de62-6b31-423c-838c-b2ab011324d0"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/0b09de62-6b31-423c-838c-b2ab011324d0\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:27:02"],"filesize":["24.79M"],"_thumbnail_id":["312569"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jenniferpepito\">Follow Jennifer Pepito on Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Learn more about \"<a href=\"https:\/\/thepeacefulpress.com\/pages\/restoration-home-community\">The Restoration Home<\/a>\" community, listen to Jennifer's podcast, and find her book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-9-practices-from-history-to-anchor-and-restore-modern-families\">Habits for a Sacred Home<\/a>\" on our shop.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/?s=resurrection+eggs&amp;post_type=product\">Experience the Easter story with Resurrection Eggs<\/a> and explore more resources in our shop<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-04-07.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><\/strong><strong><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/strong> <strong>with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Habits for a Sacred Home: Finding Peace and Purpose in Motherhood<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Guest:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jennifer Pepito<\/p>\n<p>From the series:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sacred Home (Day 1 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 April 7, 2025<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 If you could describe our home, especially when the boys were in the home, what would be the word?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Chaos.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Chaos? Craziness?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Crazy beautiful chaos. How\u2019s that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Was it beautiful?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Now, I can look back and know: \u201cYes, it's really beautiful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And now, it's just quiet and beautiful.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, it's a little depressing at times.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's pretty quiet; and it's pretty beautiful, because there's not much mess.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Today we're going to talk about a sacred home\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I like that.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014with Jennifer Pepito. She is sitting here; flew all the way from California.<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer, welcome to FamilyLife. Have you ever been here?\u2014never?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No; I'm so excited to be here. I was telling Bobby we showed the <em>Jesus<\/em> film in a little migrant village in Mexico.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What years?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Maybe 20 years ago.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's so cool.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Really?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How did it go?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was a long time ago; I think it was great. In my recollection, people were interested; it was a small village. Really special way to introduce them to Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We're talking about sacred home, but you're sort of on sacred ground.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So true.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Think about it. This is where the <em>Jesus <\/em>film was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014consecrated to the Lord, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; pretty cool.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, talk about sacred home; you have seven children.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I do! We're on a trip here with my son, who's 16\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014that's your youngest.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 that\u2019s my youngest child\u2014and my husband. The other night, we were in the hotel looking at baby pictures with him.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So then, we started looking at our family pictures. I get what you're saying\u2014my kids are pretty much grown up\u2014they're 16 to 31. It is so different. There's still a lot of activity; I have a grandchild around every other week quite a bit. But oh, those days went so fast, Ann.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, the hours did not go fast. It felt like a day was a million years. But then, you look back, like, \u201cWait! It's over?\u201d It's true what they say\u2014when the people say, \u201cOh, it goes so fast. Enjoy it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You blink.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's so true; because I have a lot of kids, and it still went fast. I still look back and would love to rewind and just enjoy those little people a little bit more.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you homeschooled.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I do.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I want to put you on a pedestal right now.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 There's seven kids that you've homeschooled; that's remarkable.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I'll tell our listeners what all you do. I know you wrote <em>Mothering by the Book<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, my first book was really about overcoming fear. In a way, I air my<\/p>\n<p>dirty laundry in that one so that you can see: \u201cIf I can do it, anybody can.\u201d And then, <em>Habits for a Sacred Home<\/em> is all about developing a rule of life and daily practices that can help us weather just the trials of life; because life is hard.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I also have a podcast: <em>Restoration Home<\/em> podcast, and a community that goes along with that, where we support moms in that habit acquisition. It's not easy to make those steps toward a more peaceful and sacred life on our own.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Now, have you always been that entrepreneurial? You do a lot of things;<\/p>\n<p>and I found out, just before we turned on the mics, you got married when<\/p>\n<p>you were 16?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, 17.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, 17.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Don't subtract a year from that early age. But I was a stay-at-<\/p>\n<p>home mom for a long time. We were actually in a church culture that really \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 discouraged women doing anything besides that. It was even kind of<\/p>\n<p>frowned upon to maybe have a blog or something. I started blogging my<\/p>\n<p>missionary stuff.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Did you feel like you're in sin or something?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes! I was like, \u201cI\u2019m going on this side!\u201d I spoke at a few homeschool<\/p>\n<p>conferences: I taught a bread-baking class, pre-Y2K, to help people prep<\/p>\n<p>to be able to bake their own bread.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s awesome, though.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I didn't start my business until 2016. And before that, I had been writing. I<\/p>\n<p>interviewed Elisabeth Elliot for a small magazine\u2014it was just a written email, back \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 and forth\u2014I didn't get to actually talk to her in person. So I've been dabbling for a \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 while, but my business is only about ten years old.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But this topic, when you talk about a sacred home, you're not saying\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Habits: I want to know these habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you're not saying it's perfect.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, no; and who could be perfect?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifeer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 None of us, without Jesus, could be perfect; so I would definitely not want to put people off. But the word, sacred, is really about being consecrated. I think, for all of us as believers\u2014our lives, our homes, our children\u2014we would say we're consecrated to the Lord.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What does that mean?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Dedicated for him. It says in the Word: \u201cIn Him, we live and move and have our being.\u201d I think that really changes the whole perspective; because then, instead of identifying ourselves by how chaotic our present circumstances are, or identifying ourselves by the mistakes we make, we can say: \u201cMy home is dedicated to God. We are consecrated to Him; so despite the pain and struggle of today, I'm going to forgive myself; I'm going to forgive my children; and tomorrow's going to be a fresh day. Here's the goal; here are the habits to work on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The book is based on <em>The Rule of St. Benedict<\/em>. Because we had kind of loved St. Francis of Assisi; we went to Assisi, Italy, one year for Christmas. I hadn't really read much about St. Benedict, except a guy wrote this book about how his rule could be used today to sort of bring more structure to our lives. The book was written more to almost intellectuals. I thought, \u201cThis is so hopeful\u201d; because in 2020 in California, life was a little crazier. It was really\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014during the pandemic days.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, the pandemic. It was sad; it was chaotic. It was really stressful, I think, for a lot of us. So many moms, all of a sudden, had to have their kids at home all the time, who weren't used to that. We didn't know how dangerous it was. It felt kind of like the world was ending, in a sense.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, I remember when I got a package at my front door, at the beginning of the pandemic; I'm like, \u201cCan I touch it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Remember?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, we wiped them down.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014like, \u201cWe can't touch it.\u201d It felt like the end of the world.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right; and then, I read about St. Benedict, who lived during the fall of Rome. The Pagans were overtaking the land, and sacking Rome, and all this crazy stuff. He developed a rule of life\u2014simple little things like stability, and stewardship, and prayer\u2014just simple habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Many people say that the monastic movement saved civilization; because while everyone was kind of going to ruin, they were in their monastery: still scribbling down the Scriptures, and keeping bees, and growing gardens; and in a sense, saving civilization. That idea\u2014that mothers in their homes, reading to their children, having dinner around the table, loving their husbands\u2014these are actually very counter-cultural actions that have revolutionary civilization-saving power.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And benefits to the children, and the home, and the whole atmosphere of<\/p>\n<p>the home.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely; and things that a lot of people can't conceive of anymore. A lot of people don't look their children in the eyes, or they don't have a conversation with their children; they don't work on their marriage. They don't cook a meal and sit around the table, which is proven to lower the risk of drug abuse, lower the risk of obesity. Basic, simple sort of old-fashioned practices have all these really life-changing powers, in a way.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jennifer, you're working with and talking to young moms all the time. What<\/p>\n<p>are the things they're feeling, or dealing with, or struggling with, as young<\/p>\n<p>moms?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think there's a lot of hope in the air right now. I feel like we are, in a way,<\/p>\n<p>in America, on the verge of a reformation of sorts. But I think that moms<\/p>\n<p>are always struggling with fear, honestly:\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014\u201cI'm not doing enough.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Guilt, shame.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The world is scary: \u201cCan we get over this situation?\u201d \u201cCan we get through this situation?\u201d I think there's a lot of fear constantly coming.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cWhat should I do with my kids? Should I homeschool them? Should I put<\/p>\n<p>them in public school? Is it safe to do that?\u201d \u201cAre they safe to be at their<\/p>\n<p>friend's house?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I don't think dads have that much.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You don't?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We have fear, but it's different from what you two just said. I'm like, \u201cI'm<\/p>\n<p>thinking about my work; I'm thinking about the paycheck; I'm thinking<\/p>\n<p>about\u2026\u201d Yes, it\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And with seven, you're thinking about each individual child. We all<\/p>\n<p>do, as moms: \u201cHow are they doing?\u201d \u201cAre they stressing?\u201d \u201cAre they\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We're thinking, \u201cOh, she's got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And especially as they grow\u2014it doesn\u2019t\/I don't want to scare any young<\/p>\n<p>moms listening\u2014but the mental load doesn't diminish as they get older.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, boy; yes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 There's less control. And that's one thing I talk about in the book: you sort<\/p>\n<p>of have to have nerves of steel to parent teens and young adults, because<\/p>\n<p>no longer can you physically move them from place to place or constantly<\/p>\n<p>know exactly what's happening. It's a walk of faith.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I bet you said this to young moms\u2014I've said it too\u2014\"God's not surprised<\/p>\n<p>of where we are in the culture and what's happening in the world. He's<\/p>\n<p>already equipped you, as a mom, to deal with all the things that are going<\/p>\n<p>on in your home, in your community.\u201d I think, when people are living in so<\/p>\n<p>much fear and afraid\u2014for us, grandkids who are coming up, like, \u201cOh,<\/p>\n<p>no!\u201d\u2014God knows exactly who they are, and what they need, and how they<\/p>\n<p>will impact society.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I feel like the practicality of all the things you're saying brings hope to a family; it brings hope to a mom, like, \u201cOh, here's some things that I can do.\u201d It's a reminder of the incredible influence we have as moms. I think it's fascinating\u2014I loved going through this whole thing\u2014the ideas in each chapter, like, \u201cOh, this is so good.\u201d It's such a good reminder, especially for our culture today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 James K.A. Smith says, \u201cWe live in an unshakable kingdom. The kingdom is not in trouble and neither are we.\u201d I feel like we're constantly having to realign our minds with that truth: that we live in an unshakeable kingdom.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes, it is just those small habits; because when we're in fear, we're activating fight and flight. We're going into a part of our brain that's not relational, that can't bring hope to our children. And the problem is\u2014the more afraid we are\u2014the more our children think that they're the cause of our unhappiness; or that they're the cause of our fear; that they're the problem.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And they're thinking, \u201cShould I be afraid?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right! It's not even enough to fake it in a way. That's why we really do need\u2014I love the episodes you guys have been doing with Nan Deal and Debra Fileta\u2014because it's not enough to fake it. We really have to get to the bottom, sometimes, of: \u201cWhere's the lie?\u201d or \u201cWhere's the toxic thought?\u201d I loved what Ron was saying about learning to replace that lie with truth; because we, sometimes, have to talk ourselves into being joyful, and happy, and showing our kids that there's hope in the world. Having that sort of stability\u2014that's one of the habits I talk about\u2014is just having stability. Even if you do have to fake it a little bit, getting to that point where you can bring that hope and peace to the atmosphere; because you are believing the Word of God over your own toxic thoughts.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's really good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love the thought that you said earlier: \u201cSacred is consecrated, because it<\/p>\n<p>means that my home's going to look different. It's set apart; it's consecrated.\u201d I heard a pastor, who was in some country where you could literally be arrested and killed for praying, even before a meal. He said, \u201cA lot of us pastors were there, and we wanted to bless the meal; and we didn't know how to do it.\u201d They came up with this idea: \u201cWe'll just hold our drink up\u201d\u2014or lemonade or our iced tea\u2014\"and we'll go, \u2018For the King!\u2019\u201d That was their way to literally consecrate the meals for the King. It's like: \u201cYour home is for the King, and so you have these habits.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Let's talk about them. So the first one\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, wait; let me say this; because I think she\u2019s got some really good<\/p>\n<p>quotes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She\u2019s got something else. Watch this.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, I like this\u2014because you say this: \u201cHow can we, as a family, be a light<\/p>\n<p>in a dark world? Every single mom, every single dad is thinking that: \u2018We want that.\u2019 I want to create a movement of mothers,\u201d\u2014this is you\u2014\"I want to create a movement of mothers, who are nurturing sacred homes that offer hope and restoration.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That was good. You should have cut me off; that was good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And every single mom is identifying, and saying, \u201cYes and amen to that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So then, we get into the habits that are super practical too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, give us your spin on that. Is that sort of the mantra of your home?\u2014\"We want to be a light\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 For sure; absolutely; yes. I am really\u2014we can't control our kids; I have learned I cannot control my kids\u2014but I am excited that my children love the Lord and are doing their best to follow Him.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You talked about being a light. I think that, when you look at the life of<\/p>\n<p>St. Benedict\u2014I read a biography of him almost at the end of writing this whole book\u2014first, I read <em>The Rule<\/em> [<em>of St. Benedict<\/em>]; and I read stuff about him; and then, I read this little biography. He actually went into a cave for three years, I think;\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014and just was seeking God during those three years. And then, after<\/p>\n<p>that, he came out and wrote <em>The Rule<\/em> [<em>of St. Benedict<\/em>]. I think it's really important to know; because I feel \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 like there was a movement in the \u201880s to have sacred homes, really to have godly homes and godly structures. But a lot of it was based on behavior only and not on an internal change of the heart.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was more external.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014external. And so then, you had these parents, who were very disciplined, and created disciplined homes. But there's a lot of falseness beneath that, and kids can see through that.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think it led to legalism.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 A lot of legalism; and then, disconnection in families, a lot of brokenness. I think a lot of what we've been dealing with even has been maybe based on some of that hypocrisy, and the hurt, and the bitterness. But when you make being with God\u2014attunement to God\u2014the first thing; and then, you tack the habits onto a properly-placed identity, then I think the habits really start creating fruit.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>That's a big part of what we do in my community: is that we're working on these habits every month. Some of the habits we're working on are habits of connection\u2014looking our children in the eyes so they know that we love them\u2014at the same time as we\u2019re working on chore chart training so they know what to do with their time. It's like there's this constant\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014balance<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014sort of balancing act, where we have to be keeping our eyes on Jesus, and connecting with Him, so we have the power to put into place the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>If we have the experience with God\u2014but no habits\u2014then, we won't get anywhere.<\/li>\n<li>But if we have the habit\u2014and no experience with God\u2014the habits will produce no fruit.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's really good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's beautiful and so true.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Our one son is a preacher; and he says, \u201cYou got to focus on the root, not the fruit.\u201d The fruit comes from the root\u2014from your rootedness in Christ\u2014so how do you do that in this crazy\u2014seven kids\u2014busy wife, busy life?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let's go through some of the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, I just want to hit on the root part again; because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay; oh, I see what you're saying.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The saint goes to a cave for three years.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I didn't go to a cave!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We can't; I\u2019m not going to put\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We can\u2019t even go to the bathroom by ourselves.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But actually, I did have a cave moment; because I love being a mom, and<\/p>\n<p>I have been a homeschool student the whole time through; I was so into it. But I did have a misplaced identity in my early years of parenting. I love my kids\u2014a lot of it was done out of love\u2014but there was also a sense of earning my value as a person by being a good mom and a good homeschooler.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014and how they came out.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, how they came out.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>My oldest daughter, when she was around 16 years old, developed an eating disorder. We were in a culture of parents, who if you had problems, you didn't talk about it. Everyone was perfect; you had to be perfect. It was like: \u201cBe perfect and sin not\u201d; it was so intense. And when that happened, I did go into a cave; it was like, \u201cI have, obviously, failed as a mom. I don't know what I'm doing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>There were a few books that were very transformational. One was a Brennan Manning book; there was another one called <em>How to Stop the Pain<\/em>. I just started to get a better understanding of the grace of God\u2014of being hidden in Christ\u2014of being clothed in His righteousness. That just really changed everything; because then, I could keep on trying to attain the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I am a visionary; but sometimes, the systems in place are a struggle for me; and I really love making my kids happy. So sometimes, making all the habits happen\u2014I'm not perfect at this at all\u2014but because being attuned to God is so important to me, I'm not hating myself every day if I make a mistake. I'm able to start every day from square one\/slate clean: \u201cI'm a child; I'm going to throw paint at the wall and see what sticks. I'm going to try my best to pray with my kids today, and lead with patience, and compassion. But if we make a mistake, I'm not going to hate myself, and condemn myself, and give up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Because what really happens is the shame cycle starts\u2014and they don't say: \u201cOh, I made a mistake; and I'll try again tomorrow,\u201d\u2014they say: \u201cI made a mistake. I am a mistake; I can't do this. I'm a terrible mom.\u201d All these lies start infiltrating the way they think\u2014which makes them not try; look grim; not be fun with the kids; not be happy; blame their spouse\u2014all kinds of things happen from that small mistake that throws the whole thing off the rails.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How'd it go with your daughter?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She's in recovery. She\u2019s amazing. She just graduated with her Juris Doctorate. She co-hosts my podcast with me; so she's on a lot of those episodes. We talk a lot about just inviting Jesus to comfort you in some of those places where you have made mistakes. She's had to invite Jesus to comfort her in some of the places where I did put too much pressure on. I've had to do the same for myself, because my issues of perfectionism and performance didn't start in a vacuum either.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let me ask you\u2014because I'm helping to lead a small group of women;<\/p>\n<p>15 young women in their 20s and 30s\u2014most of them have kids. You had<\/p>\n<p>seven. They're saying: \u201cHow do I spend time with Jesus when I've got these kids? I'm not sleeping at night; and I have to go to bed early, because they're going to be up before I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You just took my question. I was literally sitting there, thinking, \u201cI got two moms in the room who have been in that world.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How do you do that? How did you do that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201c\u2018How do you\u2019\u2014I want to hear from both of you\u2014because you had to do it; you had to do it.\u2019\u201d We only had three. We\u2019re like low life, but you had seven.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is the root system. I knew that: \u201cI can't do this apart from walking with Jesus\u201d; so how did you manage that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I do actually think\u2014not to plug homeschooling\u2014I do feel like homeschooling did help me with my spiritual disciplines because, for 27 years, every day, I did what we call \u201cMorning Time\u201d with my children. We would get up in the morning; we would read the Bible together; we would pray together; we'd sing songs with my homeschool curriculum, The Peaceful Press. We read through the Narnia books, which are all these beautiful allegories of Jesus. We read these heroic missionary stories together. We read Amy Carmichael books together in our homeschool. I feel like my\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is why all these people are mentioned in your book; they\u2019re heroes!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh yes, absolutely. I've been reading out loud to my children for 27 years. A lot of these books\u2014like Corrie ten Boom we read out loud; Sabina Wurmbrand\u2014we read these books together. I feel like my spiritual development happened alongside my children.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Interesting.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And there's a little book called <em>Domestic Monastery<\/em> by Ronald Rolheiser. He talks about how the mother at home, who is changing diapers and doing the dishes for her family is as much consecrated to God and as much in Christian service and communion as any nun in a convent. It kind of mirrors what <em>The Practice of the Presence of God<\/em>\u2014Brother Lawrence wrote\u2014about just really inhabiting and being with God throughout your day.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I have a business coach, and he told me to write down my spiritual disciplines. I was taking a walk in nature, playing with my grandbaby, making dinner for the family. Everything I do is done unto the Lord, and I'm enjoying Him as I do it: \u201cLook at the birds today. God, thanks for making the birds.\u201d I don't have a lot of time; I could never get up before my kids. People say, \u201cOh, get up before your kids and have a quiet time. The earlier I got up, the earlier they got up; the radar was on. As soon as I was awake, somebody came wandering in their little cute little stocking feet; and the quiet time was over. Quiet time really had to be sort of an ongoing practicing His presence.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I do think homeschooling was a big advantage in that, because I was able to model for my children spiritual disciplines. Together, we were able to really enjoy being with God together.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Now, do you think that's easy for moms to do?\u2014\u201cIs she like a saint?\u201d\u2014or is that achievable for most moms? Can they do the practicing the presence, the spiritual disciplines, or the rule of life?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I think so. I think we all can.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You sort of have to.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jesus wouldn't give us a job that's impossible. And so for me, it was the same Jennifer\u2014my kids went to school\u2014but especially, in the preschool years, I was struggling: \u201cHow do I do this?\u201d They're just so needy; you're holding a baby all the time.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And by the way, your husband's needy too; he's over here: \u201cWhat about me?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But I think\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He's getting a little shocked over there, honestly.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You learned to talk to God, all day long, about everything. I learned, in the morning\u2014my first \u201cHello,\u201d is to Jesus; and my first surrender is like, \u201cI give You my life today, Lord.\u201d As I'm getting up to get a baby, or to nurse a baby: \u201cI give You my life today, Lord. I surrender everything to You today, Lord.\u201d And then, the same when I go to bed\u2014He's my last \u201cGoodnight,\u201d\u2014Lord, thank You for today. Thank You that You were with me every step.\u201d But I'm praying, all day long, about everything\u2014about my frustrations\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014often, out loud.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014\u201cI'm mad, Jesus. I'm so mad I don't know what I'm doing.\u201d To take your thoughts captive\u2014and even telling; confessing means telling the truth\u2014\u201cThis is what I'm going through, God. I'm struggling with\u201d\u2014whatever it is. That's what He wants\u2014a relationship with us\u2014and to allow our kids to see it. To pray out loud; to pray with them. It's just living every minute in the power of the Holy Spirit.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that you got that; I think it is achievable for every mom. I think we're always thinking about something\u2014and that's the key I think\u2014is just to learn to redirect our thoughts.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because I spent a lot of time, as a young mom, thinking about: \u201cOh, nobody loves me,\u201d \u201cOh, this is so hard.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, me too; \u201cWoe is me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cWhy is my child not sleeping?\u201d There's a lot of: \u201cGod must hate me, because my child's not sleeping at night,\u201d\u2014or whatever it was. My thoughts were very loose, very undisciplined. I think there is a call to take every thought captive to the knowledge of God. It's, sometimes, a learning process;\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I agree.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014but it's available to all of us.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's so\u2014honestly, for a husband\/dad, to hear that from two moms\u2014because in some sense, sacred can sound so clean, and perfect, tidied up. Sacred is messy and chaotic, but it's set apart. You know what I'm saying? So what you're describing is the chaos of being a mom, and living real life with your kids every day, is still a place where you're set apart to be able to have an attunement with God in the middle of it all.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I've shared this before, but I think it's appropriate right now, again. One of the things I've encouraged moms to do is to take your home back for the kingdom for Jesus. I'm a visual person\u2014so when I did a conference\u2014we handed out painting stir sticks. I gave everyone that stirring stick\u2014and I had them write a verse on it\u2014a verse that would capture their vision and their hope for their family, for their kids. \u201cWrite the verse on it; and then, plant it\u2014tap it into the ground\u2014and then, take that ground for King Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think a lot of people have seen <em>The War Room<\/em> with Priscilla Shire and how she takes her home back. She prays over every room: \u201cThis home belongs to You, Jesus.\u201d To me, that's a part of being consecrated or set apart, like, \u201cTake this home back.\u201d Or maybe, it already is His; but again, surrender it to Lord Jesus and let Him be the One who rules and reigns in that home to be consecrated.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We have paint sticks all through our front yard. I move them every time I mow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I had women show me like they're tapping it into the ground.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, cute.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was awesome!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Give us an application for our moms, who are listening right now, as we<\/p>\n<p>close.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that you did the paint sticks. We do something similar when we move into a new home. We will pray over it; we will anoint the doorpost with oil.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014with oil; me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We'll walk the perimeter. That's actually, there's some biblical\u2014and also, in ancient history, they would mark the boundaries of a town, plow around it\u2014I think there's something very significant about just dedicating your home. Even if you haven't done it yet, just praying over it\u2014we would even say a little prayer of repentance\u2014like, \u201cGod, I repent for anything that's happened here before we dwelled here, but we claim this ground for You now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think that's a good place to start is just recognizing; then, take charge of your home. I think sometimes we see other people in our home\u2014especially, from moms of teens and young adults; or husbands who aren't on the same page\u2014we think: \u201cOh, they want to just play video games all day,\u201d or \u201cThey just want to watch these garbage shows.\u201d Well, you just start taking control of your thoughts and you start having spiritual disciplines. You start developing habits of prayer, and rest, and stewardship; and then, trust the Lord with those other people; but don't let their behavior be an excuse for you not to try.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s good; that's really good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's a good starting place.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And tomorrow, we're going to get specifically into all those habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, we haven't even started on one of the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I know! But we will; come back tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Hey, if you need more help, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp. Again, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1750172697:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_f5647c53d501bf1509b02fcca12f2d3db6439039":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_f5647c53d501bf1509b02fcca12f2d3db6439039":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:113:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] Habits for a Sacred Home - Finding Peace and Purpose in Motherhood: Jennifer 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";s:10:\"1776600200\";s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/02\/image_bbee74.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Creating a sacred home takes time, practice, and patience. Author Jennifer Pepito discusses the habits required to find peace in the midst of the chaos.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jenniferpepito\">Follow Jennifer Pepito on Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Learn more about \"<a href=\"https:\/\/thepeacefulpress.com\/pages\/restoration-home-community\">The Restoration Home<\/a>\" community, listen to Jennifer's podcast, and find her book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/habits-for-a-sacred-home-9-practices-from-history-to-anchor-and-restore-modern-families\">Habits for a Sacred Home<\/a>\" on our shop.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/?s=resurrection+eggs&amp;post_type=product\">Experience the Easter story with Resurrection Eggs<\/a> and explore more resources in our shop<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-04-07.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><\/strong><strong><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/strong> <strong>with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Habits for a Sacred Home: Finding Peace and Purpose in Motherhood<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Guest:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jennifer Pepito<\/p>\n<p>From the series:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sacred Home (Day 1 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 April 7, 2025<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 If you could describe our home, especially when the boys were in the home, what would be the word?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Chaos.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Chaos? Craziness?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Crazy beautiful chaos. How\u2019s that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Was it beautiful?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Now, I can look back and know: \u201cYes, it's really beautiful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And now, it's just quiet and beautiful.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, it's a little depressing at times.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's pretty quiet; and it's pretty beautiful, because there's not much mess.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Today we're going to talk about a sacred home\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I like that.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014with Jennifer Pepito. She is sitting here; flew all the way from California.<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer, welcome to FamilyLife. Have you ever been here?\u2014never?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No; I'm so excited to be here. I was telling Bobby we showed the <em>Jesus<\/em> film in a little migrant village in Mexico.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What years?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Maybe 20 years ago.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's so cool.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Really?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How did it go?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was a long time ago; I think it was great. In my recollection, people were interested; it was a small village. Really special way to introduce them to Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We're talking about sacred home, but you're sort of on sacred ground.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So true.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Think about it. This is where the <em>Jesus <\/em>film was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014consecrated to the Lord, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah; pretty cool.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, talk about sacred home; you have seven children.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I do! We're on a trip here with my son, who's 16\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014that's your youngest.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 that\u2019s my youngest child\u2014and my husband. The other night, we were in the hotel looking at baby pictures with him.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So then, we started looking at our family pictures. I get what you're saying\u2014my kids are pretty much grown up\u2014they're 16 to 31. It is so different. There's still a lot of activity; I have a grandchild around every other week quite a bit. But oh, those days went so fast, Ann.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, the hours did not go fast. It felt like a day was a million years. But then, you look back, like, \u201cWait! It's over?\u201d It's true what they say\u2014when the people say, \u201cOh, it goes so fast. Enjoy it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You blink.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It's so true; because I have a lot of kids, and it still went fast. I still look back and would love to rewind and just enjoy those little people a little bit more.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you homeschooled.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I do.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I want to put you on a pedestal right now.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 There's seven kids that you've homeschooled; that's remarkable.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I'll tell our listeners what all you do. I know you wrote <em>Mothering by the Book<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, my first book was really about overcoming fear. In a way, I air my<\/p>\n<p>dirty laundry in that one so that you can see: \u201cIf I can do it, anybody can.\u201d And then, <em>Habits for a Sacred Home<\/em> is all about developing a rule of life and daily practices that can help us weather just the trials of life; because life is hard.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I also have a podcast: <em>Restoration Home<\/em> podcast, and a community that goes along with that, where we support moms in that habit acquisition. It's not easy to make those steps toward a more peaceful and sacred life on our own.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Now, have you always been that entrepreneurial? You do a lot of things;<\/p>\n<p>and I found out, just before we turned on the mics, you got married when<\/p>\n<p>you were 16?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, 17.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, 17.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Don't subtract a year from that early age. But I was a stay-at-<\/p>\n<p>home mom for a long time. We were actually in a church culture that really \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 discouraged women doing anything besides that. It was even kind of<\/p>\n<p>frowned upon to maybe have a blog or something. I started blogging my<\/p>\n<p>missionary stuff.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Did you feel like you're in sin or something?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes! I was like, \u201cI\u2019m going on this side!\u201d I spoke at a few homeschool<\/p>\n<p>conferences: I taught a bread-baking class, pre-Y2K, to help people prep<\/p>\n<p>to be able to bake their own bread.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s awesome, though.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I didn't start my business until 2016. And before that, I had been writing. I<\/p>\n<p>interviewed Elisabeth Elliot for a small magazine\u2014it was just a written email, back \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 and forth\u2014I didn't get to actually talk to her in person. So I've been dabbling for a \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 while, but my business is only about ten years old.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But this topic, when you talk about a sacred home, you're not saying\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Habits: I want to know these habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you're not saying it's perfect.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, no; and who could be perfect?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifeer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 None of us, without Jesus, could be perfect; so I would definitely not want to put people off. But the word, sacred, is really about being consecrated. I think, for all of us as believers\u2014our lives, our homes, our children\u2014we would say we're consecrated to the Lord.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What does that mean?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Dedicated for him. It says in the Word: \u201cIn Him, we live and move and have our being.\u201d I think that really changes the whole perspective; because then, instead of identifying ourselves by how chaotic our present circumstances are, or identifying ourselves by the mistakes we make, we can say: \u201cMy home is dedicated to God. We are consecrated to Him; so despite the pain and struggle of today, I'm going to forgive myself; I'm going to forgive my children; and tomorrow's going to be a fresh day. Here's the goal; here are the habits to work on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The book is based on <em>The Rule of St. Benedict<\/em>. Because we had kind of loved St. Francis of Assisi; we went to Assisi, Italy, one year for Christmas. I hadn't really read much about St. Benedict, except a guy wrote this book about how his rule could be used today to sort of bring more structure to our lives. The book was written more to almost intellectuals. I thought, \u201cThis is so hopeful\u201d; because in 2020 in California, life was a little crazier. It was really\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014during the pandemic days.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, the pandemic. It was sad; it was chaotic. It was really stressful, I think, for a lot of us. So many moms, all of a sudden, had to have their kids at home all the time, who weren't used to that. We didn't know how dangerous it was. It felt kind of like the world was ending, in a sense.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, I remember when I got a package at my front door, at the beginning of the pandemic; I'm like, \u201cCan I touch it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Remember?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, we wiped them down.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014like, \u201cWe can't touch it.\u201d It felt like the end of the world.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right; and then, I read about St. Benedict, who lived during the fall of Rome. The Pagans were overtaking the land, and sacking Rome, and all this crazy stuff. He developed a rule of life\u2014simple little things like stability, and stewardship, and prayer\u2014just simple habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Many people say that the monastic movement saved civilization; because while everyone was kind of going to ruin, they were in their monastery: still scribbling down the Scriptures, and keeping bees, and growing gardens; and in a sense, saving civilization. That idea\u2014that mothers in their homes, reading to their children, having dinner around the table, loving their husbands\u2014these are actually very counter-cultural actions that have revolutionary civilization-saving power.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And benefits to the children, and the home, and the whole atmosphere of<\/p>\n<p>the home.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely; and things that a lot of people can't conceive of anymore. A lot of people don't look their children in the eyes, or they don't have a conversation with their children; they don't work on their marriage. They don't cook a meal and sit around the table, which is proven to lower the risk of drug abuse, lower the risk of obesity. Basic, simple sort of old-fashioned practices have all these really life-changing powers, in a way.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jennifer, you're working with and talking to young moms all the time. What<\/p>\n<p>are the things they're feeling, or dealing with, or struggling with, as young<\/p>\n<p>moms?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think there's a lot of hope in the air right now. I feel like we are, in a way,<\/p>\n<p>in America, on the verge of a reformation of sorts. But I think that moms<\/p>\n<p>are always struggling with fear, honestly:\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014\u201cI'm not doing enough.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Guilt, shame.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The world is scary: \u201cCan we get over this situation?\u201d \u201cCan we get through this situation?\u201d I think there's a lot of fear constantly coming.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cWhat should I do with my kids? Should I homeschool them? Should I put<\/p>\n<p>them in public school? Is it safe to do that?\u201d \u201cAre they safe to be at their<\/p>\n<p>friend's house?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I don't think dads have that much.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You don't?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We have fear, but it's different from what you two just said. I'm like, \u201cI'm<\/p>\n<p>thinking about my work; I'm thinking about the paycheck; I'm thinking<\/p>\n<p>about\u2026\u201d Yes, it\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And with seven, you're thinking about each individual child. We all<\/p>\n<p>do, as moms: \u201cHow are they doing?\u201d \u201cAre they stressing?\u201d \u201cAre they\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We're thinking, \u201cOh, she's got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And especially as they grow\u2014it doesn\u2019t\/I don't want to scare any young<\/p>\n<p>moms listening\u2014but the mental load doesn't diminish as they get older.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, boy; yes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 There's less control. And that's one thing I talk about in the book: you sort<\/p>\n<p>of have to have nerves of steel to parent teens and young adults, because<\/p>\n<p>no longer can you physically move them from place to place or constantly<\/p>\n<p>know exactly what's happening. It's a walk of faith.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I bet you said this to young moms\u2014I've said it too\u2014\"God's not surprised<\/p>\n<p>of where we are in the culture and what's happening in the world. He's<\/p>\n<p>already equipped you, as a mom, to deal with all the things that are going<\/p>\n<p>on in your home, in your community.\u201d I think, when people are living in so<\/p>\n<p>much fear and afraid\u2014for us, grandkids who are coming up, like, \u201cOh,<\/p>\n<p>no!\u201d\u2014God knows exactly who they are, and what they need, and how they<\/p>\n<p>will impact society.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I feel like the practicality of all the things you're saying brings hope to a family; it brings hope to a mom, like, \u201cOh, here's some things that I can do.\u201d It's a reminder of the incredible influence we have as moms. I think it's fascinating\u2014I loved going through this whole thing\u2014the ideas in each chapter, like, \u201cOh, this is so good.\u201d It's such a good reminder, especially for our culture today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 James K.A. Smith says, \u201cWe live in an unshakable kingdom. The kingdom is not in trouble and neither are we.\u201d I feel like we're constantly having to realign our minds with that truth: that we live in an unshakeable kingdom.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes, it is just those small habits; because when we're in fear, we're activating fight and flight. We're going into a part of our brain that's not relational, that can't bring hope to our children. And the problem is\u2014the more afraid we are\u2014the more our children think that they're the cause of our unhappiness; or that they're the cause of our fear; that they're the problem.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And they're thinking, \u201cShould I be afraid?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right! It's not even enough to fake it in a way. That's why we really do need\u2014I love the episodes you guys have been doing with Nan Deal and Debra Fileta\u2014because it's not enough to fake it. We really have to get to the bottom, sometimes, of: \u201cWhere's the lie?\u201d or \u201cWhere's the toxic thought?\u201d I loved what Ron was saying about learning to replace that lie with truth; because we, sometimes, have to talk ourselves into being joyful, and happy, and showing our kids that there's hope in the world. Having that sort of stability\u2014that's one of the habits I talk about\u2014is just having stability. Even if you do have to fake it a little bit, getting to that point where you can bring that hope and peace to the atmosphere; because you are believing the Word of God over your own toxic thoughts.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's really good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love the thought that you said earlier: \u201cSacred is consecrated, because it<\/p>\n<p>means that my home's going to look different. It's set apart; it's consecrated.\u201d I heard a pastor, who was in some country where you could literally be arrested and killed for praying, even before a meal. He said, \u201cA lot of us pastors were there, and we wanted to bless the meal; and we didn't know how to do it.\u201d They came up with this idea: \u201cWe'll just hold our drink up\u201d\u2014or lemonade or our iced tea\u2014\"and we'll go, \u2018For the King!\u2019\u201d That was their way to literally consecrate the meals for the King. It's like: \u201cYour home is for the King, and so you have these habits.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Let's talk about them. So the first one\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, wait; let me say this; because I think she\u2019s got some really good<\/p>\n<p>quotes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She\u2019s got something else. Watch this.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, I like this\u2014because you say this: \u201cHow can we, as a family, be a light<\/p>\n<p>in a dark world? Every single mom, every single dad is thinking that: \u2018We want that.\u2019 I want to create a movement of mothers,\u201d\u2014this is you\u2014\"I want to create a movement of mothers, who are nurturing sacred homes that offer hope and restoration.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That was good. You should have cut me off; that was good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And every single mom is identifying, and saying, \u201cYes and amen to that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So then, we get into the habits that are super practical too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, give us your spin on that. Is that sort of the mantra of your home?\u2014\"We want to be a light\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 For sure; absolutely; yes. I am really\u2014we can't control our kids; I have learned I cannot control my kids\u2014but I am excited that my children love the Lord and are doing their best to follow Him.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You talked about being a light. I think that, when you look at the life of<\/p>\n<p>St. Benedict\u2014I read a biography of him almost at the end of writing this whole book\u2014first, I read <em>The Rule<\/em> [<em>of St. Benedict<\/em>]; and I read stuff about him; and then, I read this little biography. He actually went into a cave for three years, I think;\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014and just was seeking God during those three years. And then, after<\/p>\n<p>that, he came out and wrote <em>The Rule<\/em> [<em>of St. Benedict<\/em>]. I think it's really important to know; because I feel \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 like there was a movement in the \u201880s to have sacred homes, really to have godly homes and godly structures. But a lot of it was based on behavior only and not on an internal change of the heart.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was more external.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014external. And so then, you had these parents, who were very disciplined, and created disciplined homes. But there's a lot of falseness beneath that, and kids can see through that.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think it led to legalism.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 A lot of legalism; and then, disconnection in families, a lot of brokenness. I think a lot of what we've been dealing with even has been maybe based on some of that hypocrisy, and the hurt, and the bitterness. But when you make being with God\u2014attunement to God\u2014the first thing; and then, you tack the habits onto a properly-placed identity, then I think the habits really start creating fruit.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>That's a big part of what we do in my community: is that we're working on these habits every month. Some of the habits we're working on are habits of connection\u2014looking our children in the eyes so they know that we love them\u2014at the same time as we\u2019re working on chore chart training so they know what to do with their time. It's like there's this constant\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014balance<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014sort of balancing act, where we have to be keeping our eyes on Jesus, and connecting with Him, so we have the power to put into place the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>If we have the experience with God\u2014but no habits\u2014then, we won't get anywhere.<\/li>\n<li>But if we have the habit\u2014and no experience with God\u2014the habits will produce no fruit.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's really good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's beautiful and so true.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Our one son is a preacher; and he says, \u201cYou got to focus on the root, not the fruit.\u201d The fruit comes from the root\u2014from your rootedness in Christ\u2014so how do you do that in this crazy\u2014seven kids\u2014busy wife, busy life?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let's go through some of the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, I just want to hit on the root part again; because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay; oh, I see what you're saying.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The saint goes to a cave for three years.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I didn't go to a cave!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We can't; I\u2019m not going to put\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We can\u2019t even go to the bathroom by ourselves.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But actually, I did have a cave moment; because I love being a mom, and<\/p>\n<p>I have been a homeschool student the whole time through; I was so into it. But I did have a misplaced identity in my early years of parenting. I love my kids\u2014a lot of it was done out of love\u2014but there was also a sense of earning my value as a person by being a good mom and a good homeschooler.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014and how they came out.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, how they came out.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>My oldest daughter, when she was around 16 years old, developed an eating disorder. We were in a culture of parents, who if you had problems, you didn't talk about it. Everyone was perfect; you had to be perfect. It was like: \u201cBe perfect and sin not\u201d; it was so intense. And when that happened, I did go into a cave; it was like, \u201cI have, obviously, failed as a mom. I don't know what I'm doing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>There were a few books that were very transformational. One was a Brennan Manning book; there was another one called <em>How to Stop the Pain<\/em>. I just started to get a better understanding of the grace of God\u2014of being hidden in Christ\u2014of being clothed in His righteousness. That just really changed everything; because then, I could keep on trying to attain the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I am a visionary; but sometimes, the systems in place are a struggle for me; and I really love making my kids happy. So sometimes, making all the habits happen\u2014I'm not perfect at this at all\u2014but because being attuned to God is so important to me, I'm not hating myself every day if I make a mistake. I'm able to start every day from square one\/slate clean: \u201cI'm a child; I'm going to throw paint at the wall and see what sticks. I'm going to try my best to pray with my kids today, and lead with patience, and compassion. But if we make a mistake, I'm not going to hate myself, and condemn myself, and give up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Because what really happens is the shame cycle starts\u2014and they don't say: \u201cOh, I made a mistake; and I'll try again tomorrow,\u201d\u2014they say: \u201cI made a mistake. I am a mistake; I can't do this. I'm a terrible mom.\u201d All these lies start infiltrating the way they think\u2014which makes them not try; look grim; not be fun with the kids; not be happy; blame their spouse\u2014all kinds of things happen from that small mistake that throws the whole thing off the rails.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How'd it go with your daughter?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She's in recovery. She\u2019s amazing. She just graduated with her Juris Doctorate. She co-hosts my podcast with me; so she's on a lot of those episodes. We talk a lot about just inviting Jesus to comfort you in some of those places where you have made mistakes. She's had to invite Jesus to comfort her in some of the places where I did put too much pressure on. I've had to do the same for myself, because my issues of perfectionism and performance didn't start in a vacuum either.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let me ask you\u2014because I'm helping to lead a small group of women;<\/p>\n<p>15 young women in their 20s and 30s\u2014most of them have kids. You had<\/p>\n<p>seven. They're saying: \u201cHow do I spend time with Jesus when I've got these kids? I'm not sleeping at night; and I have to go to bed early, because they're going to be up before I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You just took my question. I was literally sitting there, thinking, \u201cI got two moms in the room who have been in that world.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How do you do that? How did you do that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201c\u2018How do you\u2019\u2014I want to hear from both of you\u2014because you had to do it; you had to do it.\u2019\u201d We only had three. We\u2019re like low life, but you had seven.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is the root system. I knew that: \u201cI can't do this apart from walking with Jesus\u201d; so how did you manage that?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I do actually think\u2014not to plug homeschooling\u2014I do feel like homeschooling did help me with my spiritual disciplines because, for 27 years, every day, I did what we call \u201cMorning Time\u201d with my children. We would get up in the morning; we would read the Bible together; we would pray together; we'd sing songs with my homeschool curriculum, The Peaceful Press. We read through the Narnia books, which are all these beautiful allegories of Jesus. We read these heroic missionary stories together. We read Amy Carmichael books together in our homeschool. I feel like my\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is why all these people are mentioned in your book; they\u2019re heroes!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh yes, absolutely. I've been reading out loud to my children for 27 years. A lot of these books\u2014like Corrie ten Boom we read out loud; Sabina Wurmbrand\u2014we read these books together. I feel like my spiritual development happened alongside my children.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Interesting.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And there's a little book called <em>Domestic Monastery<\/em> by Ronald Rolheiser. He talks about how the mother at home, who is changing diapers and doing the dishes for her family is as much consecrated to God and as much in Christian service and communion as any nun in a convent. It kind of mirrors what <em>The Practice of the Presence of God<\/em>\u2014Brother Lawrence wrote\u2014about just really inhabiting and being with God throughout your day.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I have a business coach, and he told me to write down my spiritual disciplines. I was taking a walk in nature, playing with my grandbaby, making dinner for the family. Everything I do is done unto the Lord, and I'm enjoying Him as I do it: \u201cLook at the birds today. God, thanks for making the birds.\u201d I don't have a lot of time; I could never get up before my kids. People say, \u201cOh, get up before your kids and have a quiet time. The earlier I got up, the earlier they got up; the radar was on. As soon as I was awake, somebody came wandering in their little cute little stocking feet; and the quiet time was over. Quiet time really had to be sort of an ongoing practicing His presence.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I do think homeschooling was a big advantage in that, because I was able to model for my children spiritual disciplines. Together, we were able to really enjoy being with God together.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Now, do you think that's easy for moms to do?\u2014\u201cIs she like a saint?\u201d\u2014or is that achievable for most moms? Can they do the practicing the presence, the spiritual disciplines, or the rule of life?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I think so. I think we all can.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You sort of have to.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jesus wouldn't give us a job that's impossible. And so for me, it was the same Jennifer\u2014my kids went to school\u2014but especially, in the preschool years, I was struggling: \u201cHow do I do this?\u201d They're just so needy; you're holding a baby all the time.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And by the way, your husband's needy too; he's over here: \u201cWhat about me?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But I think\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He's getting a little shocked over there, honestly.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You learned to talk to God, all day long, about everything. I learned, in the morning\u2014my first \u201cHello,\u201d is to Jesus; and my first surrender is like, \u201cI give You my life today, Lord.\u201d As I'm getting up to get a baby, or to nurse a baby: \u201cI give You my life today, Lord. I surrender everything to You today, Lord.\u201d And then, the same when I go to bed\u2014He's my last \u201cGoodnight,\u201d\u2014Lord, thank You for today. Thank You that You were with me every step.\u201d But I'm praying, all day long, about everything\u2014about my frustrations\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014often, out loud.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014\u201cI'm mad, Jesus. I'm so mad I don't know what I'm doing.\u201d To take your thoughts captive\u2014and even telling; confessing means telling the truth\u2014\u201cThis is what I'm going through, God. I'm struggling with\u201d\u2014whatever it is. That's what He wants\u2014a relationship with us\u2014and to allow our kids to see it. To pray out loud; to pray with them. It's just living every minute in the power of the Holy Spirit.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that you got that; I think it is achievable for every mom. I think we're always thinking about something\u2014and that's the key I think\u2014is just to learn to redirect our thoughts.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because I spent a lot of time, as a young mom, thinking about: \u201cOh, nobody loves me,\u201d \u201cOh, this is so hard.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, me too; \u201cWoe is me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cWhy is my child not sleeping?\u201d There's a lot of: \u201cGod must hate me, because my child's not sleeping at night,\u201d\u2014or whatever it was. My thoughts were very loose, very undisciplined. I think there is a call to take every thought captive to the knowledge of God. It's, sometimes, a learning process;\u2014<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I agree.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014but it's available to all of us.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's so\u2014honestly, for a husband\/dad, to hear that from two moms\u2014because in some sense, sacred can sound so clean, and perfect, tidied up. Sacred is messy and chaotic, but it's set apart. You know what I'm saying? So what you're describing is the chaos of being a mom, and living real life with your kids every day, is still a place where you're set apart to be able to have an attunement with God in the middle of it all.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I've shared this before, but I think it's appropriate right now, again. One of the things I've encouraged moms to do is to take your home back for the kingdom for Jesus. I'm a visual person\u2014so when I did a conference\u2014we handed out painting stir sticks. I gave everyone that stirring stick\u2014and I had them write a verse on it\u2014a verse that would capture their vision and their hope for their family, for their kids. \u201cWrite the verse on it; and then, plant it\u2014tap it into the ground\u2014and then, take that ground for King Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think a lot of people have seen <em>The War Room<\/em> with Priscilla Shire and how she takes her home back. She prays over every room: \u201cThis home belongs to You, Jesus.\u201d To me, that's a part of being consecrated or set apart, like, \u201cTake this home back.\u201d Or maybe, it already is His; but again, surrender it to Lord Jesus and let Him be the One who rules and reigns in that home to be consecrated.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We have paint sticks all through our front yard. I move them every time I mow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I had women show me like they're tapping it into the ground.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, cute.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was awesome!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Give us an application for our moms, who are listening right now, as we<\/p>\n<p>close.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that you did the paint sticks. We do something similar when we move into a new home. We will pray over it; we will anoint the doorpost with oil.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014with oil; me too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We'll walk the perimeter. That's actually, there's some biblical\u2014and also, in ancient history, they would mark the boundaries of a town, plow around it\u2014I think there's something very significant about just dedicating your home. Even if you haven't done it yet, just praying over it\u2014we would even say a little prayer of repentance\u2014like, \u201cGod, I repent for anything that's happened here before we dwelled here, but we claim this ground for You now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think that's a good place to start is just recognizing; then, take charge of your home. I think sometimes we see other people in our home\u2014especially, from moms of teens and young adults; or husbands who aren't on the same page\u2014we think: \u201cOh, they want to just play video games all day,\u201d or \u201cThey just want to watch these garbage shows.\u201d Well, you just start taking control of your thoughts and you start having spiritual disciplines. You start developing habits of prayer, and rest, and stewardship; and then, trust the Lord with those other people; but don't let their behavior be an excuse for you not to try.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s good; that's really good.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That's a good starting place.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And tomorrow, we're going to get specifically into all those habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dave:\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, we haven't even started on one of the habits.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ann:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I know! But we will; come back tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Hey, if you need more help, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp. Again, you can go to FamilyLife.com\/ParentingHelp.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/313924","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=313924"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/312569"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=313924"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=313924"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=313924"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=313924"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=313924"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=313924"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}