{"id":311971,"date":"2025-01-27T04:07:29","date_gmt":"2025-01-27T09:07:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/dangerous-jesus-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/"},"modified":"2025-01-27T10:14:36","modified_gmt":"2025-01-27T15:14:36","slug":"dangerous-jesus-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dangerous-jesus-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/","title":{"rendered":"Dangerous Jesus: Kevin &#8220;KB&#8221; Burgess &#038; Ameen Hudson"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Do you know dangerous Jesus? Podcasters, Kevin &#8220;KB&#8221; Burgess and Ameen Hudson, introduce us to Jesus&#8217; &#8220;South side&#8221; roots and talk about the dangers of misrepresenting Christianity.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is there a masculinity crisis? Podcasters, Kevin &#8220;KB&#8221; Burgess and Ameen Hudson, explore manhood, toxic masculinity, and how to raise godly sons.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":311972,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/749ad403-3612-467a-a823-b261010c4559\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:48","filesize":"26.42M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2025-01-27 04:07:29","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2821],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[10931],"cwp_profile":[9943,9942],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-311971","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-reaching-out","podcast_series-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson-dangerous-jesus","cwp_profile-ameen-hudson","cwp_profile-kevin-kb-burgess","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/01\/image_2dbba3.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/311971\/dangerous-jesus-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/311971\/dangerous-jesus-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ZTDajhDexY\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dangerous-jesus-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/\">Dangerous Jesus: Kevin &#8220;KB&#8221; Burgess &#038; Ameen Hudson<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dangerous-jesus-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/embed\/#?secret=ZTDajhDexY\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Dangerous Jesus: Kevin &#8220;KB&#8221; Burgess &#038; Ameen Hudson&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ZTDajhDexY\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["749ad403-3612-467a-a823-b261010c4559"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/749ad403-3612-467a-a823-b261010c4559\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:28:48"],"filesize":["26.42M"],"_thumbnail_id":["311972"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Learn more about <a href=\"https:\/\/whoiskb.com\/\">KB on his website<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/ameen_hga\">Follow Ameen Hudson on Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/sale\/group-studies-sale\/\">Save 25% on all small group materials at the FamilyLife online shop<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-01-28.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>Dangerous Jesus<\/p>\n<p>Guests: Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess and Ameen Hudson<br \/>\nFrom the series: Dangerous Jesus (Day 1 of 2)<br \/>\nAir date: January 27, 2025<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think one of the best things we've ever done for our marriage is go through small group material on marriage with other couples.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yeah; no question: one of the best things. And we still do it! And right now, we have a 25 percent off discount for you to use some of our great FamilyLife resources, like the new Art of Marriage\u00ae; you could get that\u2014or you could even get our Vertical Marriage\u00ae\u2014and just take some couples through it. It, literally, will change their life. But you ready for this?\u2014it's going to change your life as well. So here's how you get it: just go to FamilyLife.com. You can pick up any resource that you want there and let it bless you and bless others.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Twenty-five percent off: don't miss that!<\/p>\n<p>KB: For so long, for most of our children\u2014at least, for the first eight or nine years\u2014we feel a sense of control:\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Totally.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"I'm shaping this,\u201d \u201cI'm directing this.\u201d But when that autonomy starts to<br \/>\nkick in, it can feel as though we have lost the control. But the truth of the<br \/>\nmatter is we were never in control; that\u2019s God's child.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Alright, so the last time we had these guys in the studio, honestly it was like a hurricane blew. I can't say hurricane in Florida\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yeah, too soon.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014too soon.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It was the most exciting day. I re-listened to it; and I'm like, \u201cI need to be quiet.\u201d I get so excited when these guys are around; I just want to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014cutting them off; talk it over.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It makes you just want to jump in on the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Wow; yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We have KB Burgess and Ameen Hudson back in the studio!<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Whoo!<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Thank for having us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Southside Rabbi\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014in the house.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: In fact, some of our listeners are like, \u201cWhat's Southside Rabbi?\u201d What is that?<\/p>\n<p>KB: It is the name of our podcast. We chose that name because we come from Southside St. Petersburg.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014Florida, not Russia. In this day and age, we need to be clear about that. We\u2019re accepting no money from Russia whatsoever! We are free! And we love America!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Anyways, if you're wondering what the podcast is like, you just got it right there.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Exactly!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There it is.<\/p>\n<p>KB: We're from Southside St. Petersburg. There's this kind of theological connection to Galilee in our mind. Galilee is the place that was considered, in the ancient near East, to be the ghetto. Nazareth in Scripture\u2014other places that Jesus is associated with\u2014it's a place where: \u201cNothing good comes from here.\u201d There are all these perceptions about this place and Jesus loves that place. So much so that, in the book of Acts, Peter's reflecting on Jesus' name\u2014right now in heaven in 2024\u2014he calls him \u201cJesus Christ, the Son of God, of Nazareth.\u201d That name\/that place that is often seen\u2014as we would call the southside of the city\u2014is all the way in heaven, right now, connected to our Savior. He loves these places; so do we.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>KB: And so that's where we're from. And then, we try to follow the Rabbi, our teacher, the Lord Jesus. You get Christ and culture, a lot of jokes, and friendship, and theology in one place.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And you've been friends since what?\u2014middle school?\u2014high school?<\/p>\n<p>KB: High school; high school.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: If you haven't heard these guys, go back on our podcast when they were on; because you guys shared your testimonies\u2014how you met Jesus\u2014it's powerful!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We can't go there today\u2014I mean, we could; but it's there\u2014they can go in the library and listen to it. And we were supposed to, last time, talk about Dangerous Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>KB: We were!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We never even got there. \u201cWhy?\u201d\u2014because we heard your story; it was so compelling.<\/p>\n<p>KB: It's dope.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It did; it really felt like, when you guys left, it was like a fire came in\u2014I mean a good fire, like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014a cleansing.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014a blazing fire of Jesus\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: I love it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014a passion, an excitement,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: Praise God.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014an energy. And then, you left; and we all just fell apart\u2014ahhhhhhh\u2014no, I\u2019m kidding.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You guys are passionate, fiery for Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>KB: I love it; praise God.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it's inspiring.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Amen; amen. We appreciate that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk about Dangerous Jesus: What is it? What's it mean? Why did you write it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Why that title?<\/p>\n<p>KB: The last four years have felt longer than four years. It feels like Dangerous Jesus was like six years ago. But I'm still, daily, hearing from people who are impacted by it. In fact, we were at the Museum of the Bible. There's an event there that happens, I think, once a month called \u201cWorship in the Heart\u201d at this theater that they just opened. We did this super-immersive musical storytelling concert for a room full of fans.<\/p>\n<p>In the Q&amp;A, the last thing that was shared was there was a sister there who, two weeks ago, her husband died.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What?!<\/p>\n<p>KB: She said that she had been praying. She said they have been in ministry for 30 years together. So they had people\u2014they had ministry partners all over the world\u2014everyone was praying. She said she was sure that God was going to deliver her husband, who had been hospitalized.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: He had a knee replacement\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: Had a knee replacement.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014that had gotten an infection.<\/p>\n<p>KB: She said that, on the way to the hospital, she felt as though the Lord said to her: \u201cI'm going to take him home.\u201d She said she slammed her fist against the dashboard: \u201cGod, You can't do that. This is not what we agreed to; there's much more for him to do. All these saints are praying; this is going to be a good look for You, God, to heal him in this moment.\u201d She said she pulled up to the hospital; and while she was in the parking lot, she got the phone call that he had passed away.<\/p>\n<p>She said that every day she's had these mountain moments with God, where she was full-out arguing with Him: \u201cHow could you have done this?\u201d \u201cWhere did we go wrong?\u201d \u201cWhat were these prayers for?\u201d And she said she talked to people all over\u2014trying to get some kind of solution, some kind of answer, some sort of make sense of what felt so senseless\u2014and she told me last night, it was the last thought that was given from the audience. We had the\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The whole audience heard of this.<\/p>\n<p>KB: The whole audience heard this. She said, \u201cI was reading Dangerous Jesus. I was reading the chapter on surrender; and essentially, giving God permission to do what He wants and praise Him anyways. Reading the stories that you shared of how you've had moments when you had to do that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I told this story about me going on this mission trip, [where] we were told that there was a good chance we weren't going to come home. And how I was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Where was the mission trip?<\/p>\n<p>KB: We went to\u2014it was in West Africa\u2014we were told about this opportunity to go strengthen a church that my church had planted in West Africa.<\/p>\n<p>This particular place in West Africa had just gotten out of two civil wars. And those civil wars were surrounded around people who were freed in America\u2014slaves who were freed in America\u2014and sent on a ship to Liberia. They were the descendants, essentially, of American slaves. There were already people in West Africa when they got there, and they kind of took the playbook of the colonizers and began to colonize in West Africa. There was literal conflict around: \u201cWhat was your last name?\u201d If it sounded African, then you were good. If it sounded like it was \u201cJackson\u201d or \u201cBurgess,\u201d then there was conflict. We watched a documentary of what was going on in the country, and it was terrifying.<\/p>\n<p>The story starts with me going to my pastor's house, watching this documentary with the other folks who were supposed to be going on this trip. The documentary was basically showing what felt like hell on earth. The documentary turns off; and then, the pastor walks in front of all of us. We think he's going to be like, \u201cWell, you know how Hollywood likes to overplay things. It's not as bad as you think; don't worry about it. We're going to have an armed guard with us.\u201d He didn't say any of that stuff. He said, \u201cIt's probably just as bad as the documentary is alleging, but no one should go on this trip unless they're willing to give their life up for Jesus.\u201d That's what he said. He said, \u201cI understand if you want to pull out now. Preserving your life is very, very wise; this is good. Some of y'all have new families.\u201d One guy that came out with this\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Were you married at that point?<\/p>\n<p>KB: I had been married for two years at that point.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No kids yet?<\/p>\n<p>KB: No children.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>KB: All these\u2014my vision board\u2014I was just starting to hit stuff; you know what I'm saying?\u2014didn't have an album out or anything yet. I'm like, \u201cLord, life just started working for me, God.\u201d I left my pastor's house and drove home; and on the way home, I was clearly not going on that trip in my mind. I was like, \u201cI'm 22 years old. I'm not about to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cThat's dumb.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014young.\u201d I was like, \u201cYeah, we could do this maybe when I'm 42; but I got life I'm trying to live.\u201d But I need to find a way to get out of it, where I didn't look weak. I thought, \u201cWhen I get home, I'm going to paint this picture to my wife. I'm going to show her, then she's going to shut it down\u2014she's not going to let her husband, a husband of her youth\u2014she's not going to let me go out there and get in the line of fire.\u201d So I got home.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wait, wait; what was the purpose of the trip? What were you supposed to do?<\/p>\n<p>KB: Oh, we were going to strengthen a church there that basically needed resources. Eighteen hours into the jungle, they needed resources\u2014some teaching, some theology stuff\u2014that is serving the community. They were neighboring a Muslim community; and there was some questions of: \u201cHow do we evangelize?\u201d and stuff there. We were supposed to go and do some serving and training.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So you get home.<\/p>\n<p>KB: I get home; I open the door; I walk in. I'm like, \u201cBaby girl, you need to sit down.\u201d She's like, \u201cWhy? I'm trying to finish this meal I'm cooking.\u201d I'm like, \u201cNo, no, no; you want to stop; trust me. Come sit down\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014\"turn the chicken off the stove.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"turn the chicken off, baby girl.\u201d We sit down; and I just begin to, very soberly and dramatically, paint this picture of this war zone that I was about to step into.<\/p>\n<p>Now, let me just say that\u2014sort of it being unknown, and my first interaction with this country was through this documentary\u2014I was overplaying it. It was not as bad as we thought it was going to be\u2014so set that aside\u2014but anyways, it's actually a beautiful place, and I love it. And then, I'm going back.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And let's just make sure: you and your wife loved each other at this time.<\/p>\n<p>KB: We loved each other! Yes, yes, yes. Honeymoon was still\u2014it was the culture of the household.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: She loves you; yes!<\/p>\n<p>KB: Well, honeymoon is still the culture of my household. You know what I'm saying?<\/p>\n<p>But anyways, I sit her down. I start to paint this picture for her; I was like, \u201cOur pastor said that he's making a video for his mother saying: \u2018If I don't come back, I love you.\u2019 There was a missionary that was martyred there recently, so this was going to be dangerous.\u201d I was explaining that to her; and I said, \u201cBaby girl, you know me. I'm K\/B-attitudes,\u201d\u2014you know what I'm saying? \u201cI'm Apostle K\u2014whatever God called me\u2014you know I'm going to go. But we got a marriage here. So we got a family we\u2019re trying to start. What do you think I should do?\u201d And she says, \u201cIs God calling you?\u201d And I said, \u201cI think He is. I mean, I went to school for missions; I think I'm fit for this.\u201d She said, \u201cWell, I think you should go.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, wait; hold on! Wait a minute now; we just got started!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You're Plan A just went away. Plan B?<\/p>\n<p>KB: I was like, \u201cWell, what if I said\/well, what if I don't?\u201d I started getting a little<br \/>\ndefensive; \u201cBut what if I don't come back though?\u201d And she says\u2014and I<br \/>\nquote\u2014\u201cIf you don't come back, God will take care of me. I want you to do<br \/>\nwhat God's calling you to do.\u201d And then, at that moment, it got real. I was<br \/>\nlike, \u201cAll this stuff that I've been saying in my music on stages about the<br \/>\nimmeasurable value of Christ\u2014that \u2018He's worth your life,\u2019\u2014here is my<br \/>\nchance to prove it. I am afraid, and I'm looking for a way around what God<br \/>\nis clearly calling me to. How can I call other people into this when I myself<br \/>\nwon't walk into it?\u201d I called the missions team back; and I said, \u201cI'm going;<br \/>\nand if I don't return, to God be the glory.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When I got there, it was the story of everybody who does these two-, three-week missionary trips; they're like, \u201cI thought I was going to reach them, and God sent me there to be reached.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, did anybody step out?<\/p>\n<p>KB: Everybody leaned in.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Everybody went?<\/p>\n<p>KB: Everybody leaned in. We went and raised the money, and we went and we served. It was very challenging. I had this moment that really capitalized the experience for me when we got to West Africa. We drove 18 hours into the jungle the second night we were there. My room that I was staying in was worse than a prison cell; in fact, it looked exactly like a prison cell. It was a concrete bed, a mosquito net over my head. I started to chuckle because\u2014though I was hungry; though I was wildly uncomfortable, and I wasn't sure what was about to come out of the jungle\u2014I wanted to be there. I would rather be laying on a concrete bed in the middle of the jungle\u2014unable to sleep, and hungry, and a bit concerned\u2014knowing that God is smiling at me. I'd rather be there than to be anywhere else, laid up in luxury and at the devil's sort of pleasure. I'll take God, in the jungle, over the devil, in the penthouse. It wasn't like a cool phrase; I felt it. I felt joy, and fullness, and\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014fully alive.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014alive. In that moment, I felt more safe than I had ever felt in my Christian walk. I found that in the hard place\u2014the perceived hard place\u2014it was easier to see God. As I reflected on living in the easy place\u2014America\u2014how hard it was to see God here, that sort of brought to life these passages in the New Testament where Christ is calling people to surrender it all\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014to lay it all down.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014to walk into the hard thing and to let go: \u201cIf anyone tries to preserve their life,\u201d or \u201cIf they won't give it up for My sake, then they will lose it.\u201d But if you let go, you're going to find something better than what you were holding; and that is in a deep relationship with the God who made you. There is happiness, wholeness, flourishing right there. And that's what I was talking about in that chapter.<\/p>\n<p>The sister read that and started\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yeah, I was going to ask: \u201cHow did she\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: She read that\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014\u201dhow\u2019d that resonate with where she\u2019s living?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: She felt like the Lord was calling her to lean into this challenging, scary, confusing place; and trust Him anyways. As she began to do that, she finally got the peace that was escaping her for the two weeks that she was wrestling with it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You guys have been friends; you've been walking this together a long time. \u201cWhy don't we do that?\u201d \u201cWhy don't we lean in?\u201d \u201cWhy are we playing it safe, Jesus?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Oh, man; I think, number one, it is a human condition for us to be scared of risk. I think, at times, it's good because it prevents you from doing something that could really harm you. But I think that, a lot of the times, God is calling us to hard things. Especially us in the West\/especially American Christianity, we don't get challenged as much to be put in danger for the faith as some of other Christians do\/some of our other brothers and sisters worldwide. I think that we have much more comforts here than a lot of other folks do; I call it like air-conditioned Christianity. As soon as it becomes a little bit uncomfortable, I think that we tend to bristle at it. I think that it's much easier to think about trusting God in theory than it is in practice, because it's always easier for us to say rather than do.<\/p>\n<p>I think that that's why God puts us in circumstances, where we have to trust Him in what we have to do. That's the circumstance you are in. I think that's the circumstance that all of us who are following Jesus for real, who really want Him, we are going to find ourselves in these places where we are going to have to trust Him with something that is very hard. We're all going to experience some level of suffering to some degree.<\/p>\n<p>I do think that the reason that we don't [trust] is because our trust is not as strong as we would like to think it is. I think God exposes that for us so that we can then lean on Him, to say, \u201cLord, I am not trusting You the way that I should. My faith is not as strong as I would like it to be, but I know that You can make it stronger.\u201d I think that that's why God puts us in those circumstances and situations so that we can depend on Him and lean on Him. I think that that is going to be a regular part of the Christian life for all of us. We're going to find ourselves there in different seasons, and in certain circumstances; but I think that God does it to sanctify us. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; when you're saying this, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWe sort of want a safe Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u201cYes, yes; please; not a dangerous One.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We don't\u2014like you said, we run from danger\u2014we want to stay safe in our Christian walk. We say we want danger\u2014I'll tell you a quick story; we've never shared this before\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: As you share this, I think, too, what's even more dangerous is: \u201cWe want our kids to be safe, Jesus. I can walk out with dangerous Jesus, but with my kids\u2026\u201d; because it's easy for them to become our idols.<\/p>\n<p>KB: That's really good; that's powerful.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I took four or five Detroit Lions to\u2014a buddy had a lodge\u2014a long story,<br \/>\nshort: he had these dune buggies. We all get out there, and our wives are<br \/>\nactually in the lodge; and we're out there, messing around. Next thing you<br \/>\nknow, we're getting competitive, trying to race each other. And there is a<br \/>\nkicker and me who had these two\u2014the full cage\u2014so it's called a Honda<br \/>\nPilot. Long story, short\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It's like a go-kart with a cage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We started going so out of control through these woods, through this little jump around. Everybody got off their four wheelers and watched us. They're like, \u201cThis is going to\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u201cThey\u2019re going crazy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I'm trying to beat him; he\u2019s trying to beat me.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It's going to end badly.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We get done. Denny, the guy who owned the place goes, \u201cHey, you guys<br \/>\nreally wanted to get some air?\u201d Our air was like a little two-footer. He<br \/>\ngoes, \u201cGo down there, and go up this hill.\u201d We look down, and I go, \u201cWhat<br \/>\ndo you mean?\u201d He goes, \u201cJust go down to the end of the field and hit it.\u201d<br \/>\nSo we take off, and we misunderstood him\u2014we didn't know it at the<br \/>\ntime\u2014I found out later that's not what he meant.<\/p>\n<p>We're 80 yards away.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But he also said someone very well-known\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He said, \u201cOh, yeah; maybe you can break the record.\u201d That's right; I go, \u201cWhat do you mean \u2018\u2026the record\u2019?\u201d He goes, \u201cJim Zorn\u201d\u2014former NFL quarterback\u2014\"broke the record: four feet. He went four feet.\u201d I go, \u201cI'll break that record.\u201d I go out there; I put the pedal on the metal. I'm going\u2014it's 80 yards, and I'm coming\u2014and getting faster, and faster, and faster. The hill\u2014I am not kidding\u2014is almost as high as this ceiling. All the guys are up, standing on the hill; and I'm coming up. Everything in me is like, \u201cThere's no way! He meant keep your foot down. This is not\u2026\u201d I'm like, \u201cI should take my foot off.\u201d But I'm like, \u201cNope; he said, \u2018Do not\u2026\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u201cKeep it down.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So I never took my foot off. I hit the hill. I'm looking down; every guy is like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They're looking up.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I am 15 feet above them; and then, the thing's starting to tilt. I'm like, \u201cI am going to literally land on the front\/on the nose,\u201d and I do. I hit the front\u2014flip, flip, flip; three times\u2014I mean, it just boom, boom, boom. I'm all strapped in, because it was a five-harness thing. I reach out; turn off the engine. Denny runs out to me; he goes, \u201cDude, I thought you were dead.\u201d I go, \u201cYou told me to do this.\u201d He goes, \u201cDude, I did not mean what you did.\u201d And then he goes, \u201cDing, ding, ding; you broke the record.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat did I do?\u201d He goes, \u201cForty-eight feet.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: What? Forty-eight feet?!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I went 48 feet in the air and landed.<\/p>\n<p>KB: And the other one was four feet?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Four feet! Again, it's crazy.<\/p>\n<p>The only reason I'm telling you this story is it came to my mind when you guys were telling your story. KB, when you're saying that, I thought, \u201cWe don't want to live for Jesus like that. When we come to the scary hill; that Jesus is saying\u2014\u2018Go on a mission trip,\u2019 or \u2018Share the gospel\u2019; whatever it is\u2014we tiptoe. But I think there's a part of us, that Jesus says, \u2018Put the foot down and go, and I'm going to take you on a ride you're going to talk about someday on a podcast.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: That's right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But I think we're so afraid to do it; we never get the thrill. I mean, it was the<br \/>\nstupidest thing ever [that I did]. But when God calls us to do something in faith, we got to step out and do what you said.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: That's the story of the Bible. I mean, a lot of the big stories of faith that we see is God asking people to do hard stuff\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014impossible stuff.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014impossible stuff that we don't know what's on the other side of this: \u201cHey, Gideon, cut your army down.\u201d \u201cWhat do you mean?! This is the ancient near East. The way that people win wars here is who has more men and whose men are better at fighting. You're telling me to get rid of men? The other armies would laugh at us. What do you mean? This is a life-and-death situation. This is: \u2018Get ready to go to war\u2019; we could die.\u201d I think that it's God calling us to hard things. But because we see the power of God\u2014He shows His power in the midst of that\u2014that it's not us.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I guess my question would be: \u201cWhen was the last time that you did something you could not do it apart from God?\u201d\u2014something scary. It\u2019s like what you're saying, KB: \u201cI can't do this. I don't want to do it, and I'm not going to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: That's right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But God's like, \u201cWill you walk on the water with Me?\u201d So KB, end us with the challenge to our listeners of: \u201cWhat could this look like for us?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: Well, I'll give you this kind of framework; then, I'll give the challenge. First is: God doesn't ask us to do hard things for the hardness\u2019 sake. It's not like this is CrossFit; you know what I'm saying? \u201cWe need to live in the\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014\u201cdifficult.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"in nature.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But it is the hard thing for goodness\u2019 sake. Because on the other side\u2014and you know this as being in the professional context with athletes\u2014the harder you train, it makes the work on the field easier. So on the other side of training hard is freedom to do things that your opponent can't do on the field. And then, it also yields rewards that your opponent doesn't get: \u201cI trained harder; I studied the strategy harder. So then, when it came time to execute, that became the easy part actually.\u201d The hardness actually gives the championship because, as the famous words from Muhammad Ali: \u201cYou suffer for the moment, but you'll be a champion for a lifetime.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And this is a principle that we see in Scripture; is that you train yourself for godliness because, when you are godly, you're a better husband; you're a better father; you're a better citizen; you're a better neighbor. Think about who you are\u2014if you're holier, and more righteous, and more kind, and more compassionate\u2014the pathway to all of that is godliness. Jesus is dangerous in that He becomes a danger to all the things that put you in danger, and the means by which he gets you there requires some difficulty. Leaning into it is important.<\/p>\n<p>That's kind of the framework here: we are training for the gold medal\/for the championship. You are training\/following this for the goodness\/for goodness\u2019 sake or the thrill to be able to say you beat that dude's four-foot jump. Practically, I want to leave y'all with this, and I talk about this in Dangerous Jesus: \u201cDo not think that this is largely around God is going to, at some point, ask you to go move to the 10\/40 window; and maybe get martyred,\u201d or \u201cGod is going to ask you to, someday, He's going to ask you to empty out your Bank of America account; go sell every dollar you have.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>God may call you do those things. But it's probably more likely that God is going to talk to you about the simple things in your life; for example:<\/p>\n<p>You know that there might be a relationship that you're in right now that is absolutely bankrupting your faith. This person doesn't care about Jesus like you do. You know that there's no future; this isn't going anywhere. You know that your family, and your pastor, and your friends have been saying, \u201cHe's a problem,\u201d or \u201cI don't know if she's the right choice for you.\u201d I don't know; it might just be cutting off a relationship.<\/p>\n<p>Or leaving a job. It might be starting that business that God has been calling you to.<\/p>\n<p>It may be trusting God with your wayward child. You may have a situation where, all the things that you have trained the child up into, they are departing from it. Instead of leading in your anxiety\u2014leading in your fear, leading in your kind of instability about what might happen\u2014it may be giving them grace; loving them; being patient; trying to create a culture of kindness and mercy that might create a space that, when that child is ready to surrender to Jesus, they know exactly where they need to go. That is a difficult thing to do because we, for so long\u2014for most of our children; at least, for the first eight or nine years\u2014we feel a sense of control:\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Totally.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"I'm shaping this,\u201d \u201cI'm directing this.\u201d But when that<br \/>\nautonomy starts to kick in, it can feel as though we have lost the control. But the truth of the matter is: we<br \/>\nwere never in control; that\u2019s God's child. And to be able to live in such a way where we are creating a culture that demonstrates to that child, who we might be in contention with, that we are trusting God; and we are loving them, even as we may see things that rub us the wrong way.<\/p>\n<p>That's another kind of risky, dangerous thing to do. But brothers and sisters, the stories that I have heard of fruit on the other side of that kind of commitment\u2014sanity for yourself and creating a space, for when the Lord finally breaks through\u2014they know that they had a parent who mirrored the character of Christ\/the character of the Father; and that, when it is time to come home, we know where to go.<\/p>\n<p>Whatever the hard thing might be, there's these small moments of faithfulness that don't need to be extraordinary. It's just these simple means of grace that God gives to us through simple obedience in our lives. That's the hard stuff that I think the Bible is mainly calling you into. And in doing those things, you find the love of Christ that makes you feel alive.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: KB, when you were saying that, I was thinking, \u201cThere's so many parents who listen to us. I would just say this to a parent: \u2018You've been telling your son or daughter that thing about the guy she's dating, or he's dating, and they're not listening. Play this podcast for her\/for him. They're going to listen to KB. They're not going to listen to us, and they're not going to listen to you; but they'll listen to KB and Ameen because [they] speak their language; and sometimes, as parents, we can't get through.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And I\u2019ll also say this, because it's something that's really important to FamilyLife. We're a listener-supported ministry. People\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: I love it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014donate to us. So if this podcast is helping you\/this radio broadcast is helping you, I'm encouraging you to jump in, and say, \u201cI'm going to bless FamilyLife by giving a financial gift.\u201d And by the way, I know that's dangerous.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And here's the deal: if you give, we're going to send you Dangerous Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014any donation\u2014we will send you their book.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yeah, you can give $5 or $5,000; it's really whatever God leads you to give. FamilyLifeToday.com: make a donation there; or you can call us at 800-358-6329. That is 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and the word, TODAY. It\u2019ll bless us, and we'll bless you.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<br \/>\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife.com<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1737992007:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2025-01-27 04:07:29"],"enclosure":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/749ad403-3612-467a-a823-b261010c4559\/audio.mp3"],"_seopress_redirections_type":["301"],"_seopress_redirections_logged_status":["both"],"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":[""],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-311971.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-311971.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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there a masculinity crisis? Podcasters, Kevin \"KB\" Burgess and Ameen Hudson, explore manhood, toxic masculinity, and how to raise godly sons.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Learn more about <a href=\"https:\/\/whoiskb.com\/\">KB on his website<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/ameen_hga\">Follow Ameen Hudson on Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/sale\/group-studies-sale\/\">Save 25% on all small group materials at the FamilyLife online shop<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-01-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>Dangerous Jesus<\/p>\n<p>Guests: Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess and Ameen Hudson<br \/>\nFrom the series: Dangerous Jesus (Day 1 of 2)<br \/>\nAir date: January 27, 2025<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think one of the best things we've ever done for our marriage is go through small group material on marriage with other couples.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yeah; no question: one of the best things. And we still do it! And right now, we have a 25 percent off discount for you to use some of our great FamilyLife resources, like the new Art of Marriage\u00ae; you could get that\u2014or you could even get our Vertical Marriage\u00ae\u2014and just take some couples through it. It, literally, will change their life. But you ready for this?\u2014it's going to change your life as well. So here's how you get it: just go to FamilyLife.com. You can pick up any resource that you want there and let it bless you and bless others.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Twenty-five percent off: don't miss that!<\/p>\n<p>KB: For so long, for most of our children\u2014at least, for the first eight or nine years\u2014we feel a sense of control:\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Totally.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"I'm shaping this,\u201d \u201cI'm directing this.\u201d But when that autonomy starts to<br \/>\nkick in, it can feel as though we have lost the control. But the truth of the<br \/>\nmatter is we were never in control; that\u2019s God's child.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Alright, so the last time we had these guys in the studio, honestly it was like a hurricane blew. I can't say hurricane in Florida\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yeah, too soon.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014too soon.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It was the most exciting day. I re-listened to it; and I'm like, \u201cI need to be quiet.\u201d I get so excited when these guys are around; I just want to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014cutting them off; talk it over.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It makes you just want to jump in on the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Wow; yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We have KB Burgess and Ameen Hudson back in the studio!<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Whoo!<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Thank for having us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Southside Rabbi\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014in the house.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: In fact, some of our listeners are like, \u201cWhat's Southside Rabbi?\u201d What is that?<\/p>\n<p>KB: It is the name of our podcast. We chose that name because we come from Southside St. Petersburg.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014Florida, not Russia. In this day and age, we need to be clear about that. We\u2019re accepting no money from Russia whatsoever! We are free! And we love America!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Anyways, if you're wondering what the podcast is like, you just got it right there.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Exactly!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There it is.<\/p>\n<p>KB: We're from Southside St. Petersburg. There's this kind of theological connection to Galilee in our mind. Galilee is the place that was considered, in the ancient near East, to be the ghetto. Nazareth in Scripture\u2014other places that Jesus is associated with\u2014it's a place where: \u201cNothing good comes from here.\u201d There are all these perceptions about this place and Jesus loves that place. So much so that, in the book of Acts, Peter's reflecting on Jesus' name\u2014right now in heaven in 2024\u2014he calls him \u201cJesus Christ, the Son of God, of Nazareth.\u201d That name\/that place that is often seen\u2014as we would call the southside of the city\u2014is all the way in heaven, right now, connected to our Savior. He loves these places; so do we.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>KB: And so that's where we're from. And then, we try to follow the Rabbi, our teacher, the Lord Jesus. You get Christ and culture, a lot of jokes, and friendship, and theology in one place.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And you've been friends since what?\u2014middle school?\u2014high school?<\/p>\n<p>KB: High school; high school.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: If you haven't heard these guys, go back on our podcast when they were on; because you guys shared your testimonies\u2014how you met Jesus\u2014it's powerful!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We can't go there today\u2014I mean, we could; but it's there\u2014they can go in the library and listen to it. And we were supposed to, last time, talk about Dangerous Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>KB: We were!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We never even got there. \u201cWhy?\u201d\u2014because we heard your story; it was so compelling.<\/p>\n<p>KB: It's dope.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It did; it really felt like, when you guys left, it was like a fire came in\u2014I mean a good fire, like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014a cleansing.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014a blazing fire of Jesus\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: I love it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014a passion, an excitement,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: Praise God.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014an energy. And then, you left; and we all just fell apart\u2014ahhhhhhh\u2014no, I\u2019m kidding.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You guys are passionate, fiery for Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>KB: I love it; praise God.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it's inspiring.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Amen; amen. We appreciate that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk about Dangerous Jesus: What is it? What's it mean? Why did you write it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Why that title?<\/p>\n<p>KB: The last four years have felt longer than four years. It feels like Dangerous Jesus was like six years ago. But I'm still, daily, hearing from people who are impacted by it. In fact, we were at the Museum of the Bible. There's an event there that happens, I think, once a month called \u201cWorship in the Heart\u201d at this theater that they just opened. We did this super-immersive musical storytelling concert for a room full of fans.<\/p>\n<p>In the Q&amp;A, the last thing that was shared was there was a sister there who, two weeks ago, her husband died.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What?!<\/p>\n<p>KB: She said that she had been praying. She said they have been in ministry for 30 years together. So they had people\u2014they had ministry partners all over the world\u2014everyone was praying. She said she was sure that God was going to deliver her husband, who had been hospitalized.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: He had a knee replacement\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: Had a knee replacement.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014that had gotten an infection.<\/p>\n<p>KB: She said that, on the way to the hospital, she felt as though the Lord said to her: \u201cI'm going to take him home.\u201d She said she slammed her fist against the dashboard: \u201cGod, You can't do that. This is not what we agreed to; there's much more for him to do. All these saints are praying; this is going to be a good look for You, God, to heal him in this moment.\u201d She said she pulled up to the hospital; and while she was in the parking lot, she got the phone call that he had passed away.<\/p>\n<p>She said that every day she's had these mountain moments with God, where she was full-out arguing with Him: \u201cHow could you have done this?\u201d \u201cWhere did we go wrong?\u201d \u201cWhat were these prayers for?\u201d And she said she talked to people all over\u2014trying to get some kind of solution, some kind of answer, some sort of make sense of what felt so senseless\u2014and she told me last night, it was the last thought that was given from the audience. We had the\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The whole audience heard of this.<\/p>\n<p>KB: The whole audience heard this. She said, \u201cI was reading Dangerous Jesus. I was reading the chapter on surrender; and essentially, giving God permission to do what He wants and praise Him anyways. Reading the stories that you shared of how you've had moments when you had to do that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I told this story about me going on this mission trip, [where] we were told that there was a good chance we weren't going to come home. And how I was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Where was the mission trip?<\/p>\n<p>KB: We went to\u2014it was in West Africa\u2014we were told about this opportunity to go strengthen a church that my church had planted in West Africa.<\/p>\n<p>This particular place in West Africa had just gotten out of two civil wars. And those civil wars were surrounded around people who were freed in America\u2014slaves who were freed in America\u2014and sent on a ship to Liberia. They were the descendants, essentially, of American slaves. There were already people in West Africa when they got there, and they kind of took the playbook of the colonizers and began to colonize in West Africa. There was literal conflict around: \u201cWhat was your last name?\u201d If it sounded African, then you were good. If it sounded like it was \u201cJackson\u201d or \u201cBurgess,\u201d then there was conflict. We watched a documentary of what was going on in the country, and it was terrifying.<\/p>\n<p>The story starts with me going to my pastor's house, watching this documentary with the other folks who were supposed to be going on this trip. The documentary was basically showing what felt like hell on earth. The documentary turns off; and then, the pastor walks in front of all of us. We think he's going to be like, \u201cWell, you know how Hollywood likes to overplay things. It's not as bad as you think; don't worry about it. We're going to have an armed guard with us.\u201d He didn't say any of that stuff. He said, \u201cIt's probably just as bad as the documentary is alleging, but no one should go on this trip unless they're willing to give their life up for Jesus.\u201d That's what he said. He said, \u201cI understand if you want to pull out now. Preserving your life is very, very wise; this is good. Some of y'all have new families.\u201d One guy that came out with this\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Were you married at that point?<\/p>\n<p>KB: I had been married for two years at that point.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No kids yet?<\/p>\n<p>KB: No children.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>KB: All these\u2014my vision board\u2014I was just starting to hit stuff; you know what I'm saying?\u2014didn't have an album out or anything yet. I'm like, \u201cLord, life just started working for me, God.\u201d I left my pastor's house and drove home; and on the way home, I was clearly not going on that trip in my mind. I was like, \u201cI'm 22 years old. I'm not about to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cThat's dumb.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014young.\u201d I was like, \u201cYeah, we could do this maybe when I'm 42; but I got life I'm trying to live.\u201d But I need to find a way to get out of it, where I didn't look weak. I thought, \u201cWhen I get home, I'm going to paint this picture to my wife. I'm going to show her, then she's going to shut it down\u2014she's not going to let her husband, a husband of her youth\u2014she's not going to let me go out there and get in the line of fire.\u201d So I got home.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wait, wait; what was the purpose of the trip? What were you supposed to do?<\/p>\n<p>KB: Oh, we were going to strengthen a church there that basically needed resources. Eighteen hours into the jungle, they needed resources\u2014some teaching, some theology stuff\u2014that is serving the community. They were neighboring a Muslim community; and there was some questions of: \u201cHow do we evangelize?\u201d and stuff there. We were supposed to go and do some serving and training.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So you get home.<\/p>\n<p>KB: I get home; I open the door; I walk in. I'm like, \u201cBaby girl, you need to sit down.\u201d She's like, \u201cWhy? I'm trying to finish this meal I'm cooking.\u201d I'm like, \u201cNo, no, no; you want to stop; trust me. Come sit down\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014\"turn the chicken off the stove.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"turn the chicken off, baby girl.\u201d We sit down; and I just begin to, very soberly and dramatically, paint this picture of this war zone that I was about to step into.<\/p>\n<p>Now, let me just say that\u2014sort of it being unknown, and my first interaction with this country was through this documentary\u2014I was overplaying it. It was not as bad as we thought it was going to be\u2014so set that aside\u2014but anyways, it's actually a beautiful place, and I love it. And then, I'm going back.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And let's just make sure: you and your wife loved each other at this time.<\/p>\n<p>KB: We loved each other! Yes, yes, yes. Honeymoon was still\u2014it was the culture of the household.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: She loves you; yes!<\/p>\n<p>KB: Well, honeymoon is still the culture of my household. You know what I'm saying?<\/p>\n<p>But anyways, I sit her down. I start to paint this picture for her; I was like, \u201cOur pastor said that he's making a video for his mother saying: \u2018If I don't come back, I love you.\u2019 There was a missionary that was martyred there recently, so this was going to be dangerous.\u201d I was explaining that to her; and I said, \u201cBaby girl, you know me. I'm K\/B-attitudes,\u201d\u2014you know what I'm saying? \u201cI'm Apostle K\u2014whatever God called me\u2014you know I'm going to go. But we got a marriage here. So we got a family we\u2019re trying to start. What do you think I should do?\u201d And she says, \u201cIs God calling you?\u201d And I said, \u201cI think He is. I mean, I went to school for missions; I think I'm fit for this.\u201d She said, \u201cWell, I think you should go.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, wait; hold on! Wait a minute now; we just got started!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You're Plan A just went away. Plan B?<\/p>\n<p>KB: I was like, \u201cWell, what if I said\/well, what if I don't?\u201d I started getting a little<br \/>\ndefensive; \u201cBut what if I don't come back though?\u201d And she says\u2014and I<br \/>\nquote\u2014\u201cIf you don't come back, God will take care of me. I want you to do<br \/>\nwhat God's calling you to do.\u201d And then, at that moment, it got real. I was<br \/>\nlike, \u201cAll this stuff that I've been saying in my music on stages about the<br \/>\nimmeasurable value of Christ\u2014that \u2018He's worth your life,\u2019\u2014here is my<br \/>\nchance to prove it. I am afraid, and I'm looking for a way around what God<br \/>\nis clearly calling me to. How can I call other people into this when I myself<br \/>\nwon't walk into it?\u201d I called the missions team back; and I said, \u201cI'm going;<br \/>\nand if I don't return, to God be the glory.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When I got there, it was the story of everybody who does these two-, three-week missionary trips; they're like, \u201cI thought I was going to reach them, and God sent me there to be reached.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, did anybody step out?<\/p>\n<p>KB: Everybody leaned in.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Everybody went?<\/p>\n<p>KB: Everybody leaned in. We went and raised the money, and we went and we served. It was very challenging. I had this moment that really capitalized the experience for me when we got to West Africa. We drove 18 hours into the jungle the second night we were there. My room that I was staying in was worse than a prison cell; in fact, it looked exactly like a prison cell. It was a concrete bed, a mosquito net over my head. I started to chuckle because\u2014though I was hungry; though I was wildly uncomfortable, and I wasn't sure what was about to come out of the jungle\u2014I wanted to be there. I would rather be laying on a concrete bed in the middle of the jungle\u2014unable to sleep, and hungry, and a bit concerned\u2014knowing that God is smiling at me. I'd rather be there than to be anywhere else, laid up in luxury and at the devil's sort of pleasure. I'll take God, in the jungle, over the devil, in the penthouse. It wasn't like a cool phrase; I felt it. I felt joy, and fullness, and\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014fully alive.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014alive. In that moment, I felt more safe than I had ever felt in my Christian walk. I found that in the hard place\u2014the perceived hard place\u2014it was easier to see God. As I reflected on living in the easy place\u2014America\u2014how hard it was to see God here, that sort of brought to life these passages in the New Testament where Christ is calling people to surrender it all\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014to lay it all down.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014to walk into the hard thing and to let go: \u201cIf anyone tries to preserve their life,\u201d or \u201cIf they won't give it up for My sake, then they will lose it.\u201d But if you let go, you're going to find something better than what you were holding; and that is in a deep relationship with the God who made you. There is happiness, wholeness, flourishing right there. And that's what I was talking about in that chapter.<\/p>\n<p>The sister read that and started\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yeah, I was going to ask: \u201cHow did she\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: She read that\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014\u201dhow\u2019d that resonate with where she\u2019s living?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: She felt like the Lord was calling her to lean into this challenging, scary, confusing place; and trust Him anyways. As she began to do that, she finally got the peace that was escaping her for the two weeks that she was wrestling with it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You guys have been friends; you've been walking this together a long time. \u201cWhy don't we do that?\u201d \u201cWhy don't we lean in?\u201d \u201cWhy are we playing it safe, Jesus?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Oh, man; I think, number one, it is a human condition for us to be scared of risk. I think, at times, it's good because it prevents you from doing something that could really harm you. But I think that, a lot of the times, God is calling us to hard things. Especially us in the West\/especially American Christianity, we don't get challenged as much to be put in danger for the faith as some of other Christians do\/some of our other brothers and sisters worldwide. I think that we have much more comforts here than a lot of other folks do; I call it like air-conditioned Christianity. As soon as it becomes a little bit uncomfortable, I think that we tend to bristle at it. I think that it's much easier to think about trusting God in theory than it is in practice, because it's always easier for us to say rather than do.<\/p>\n<p>I think that that's why God puts us in circumstances, where we have to trust Him in what we have to do. That's the circumstance you are in. I think that's the circumstance that all of us who are following Jesus for real, who really want Him, we are going to find ourselves in these places where we are going to have to trust Him with something that is very hard. We're all going to experience some level of suffering to some degree.<\/p>\n<p>I do think that the reason that we don't [trust] is because our trust is not as strong as we would like to think it is. I think God exposes that for us so that we can then lean on Him, to say, \u201cLord, I am not trusting You the way that I should. My faith is not as strong as I would like it to be, but I know that You can make it stronger.\u201d I think that that's why God puts us in those circumstances and situations so that we can depend on Him and lean on Him. I think that that is going to be a regular part of the Christian life for all of us. We're going to find ourselves there in different seasons, and in certain circumstances; but I think that God does it to sanctify us. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; when you're saying this, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWe sort of want a safe Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u201cYes, yes; please; not a dangerous One.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We don't\u2014like you said, we run from danger\u2014we want to stay safe in our Christian walk. We say we want danger\u2014I'll tell you a quick story; we've never shared this before\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: As you share this, I think, too, what's even more dangerous is: \u201cWe want our kids to be safe, Jesus. I can walk out with dangerous Jesus, but with my kids\u2026\u201d; because it's easy for them to become our idols.<\/p>\n<p>KB: That's really good; that's powerful.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I took four or five Detroit Lions to\u2014a buddy had a lodge\u2014a long story,<br \/>\nshort: he had these dune buggies. We all get out there, and our wives are<br \/>\nactually in the lodge; and we're out there, messing around. Next thing you<br \/>\nknow, we're getting competitive, trying to race each other. And there is a<br \/>\nkicker and me who had these two\u2014the full cage\u2014so it's called a Honda<br \/>\nPilot. Long story, short\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It's like a go-kart with a cage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We started going so out of control through these woods, through this little jump around. Everybody got off their four wheelers and watched us. They're like, \u201cThis is going to\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u201cThey\u2019re going crazy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I'm trying to beat him; he\u2019s trying to beat me.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It's going to end badly.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We get done. Denny, the guy who owned the place goes, \u201cHey, you guys<br \/>\nreally wanted to get some air?\u201d Our air was like a little two-footer. He<br \/>\ngoes, \u201cGo down there, and go up this hill.\u201d We look down, and I go, \u201cWhat<br \/>\ndo you mean?\u201d He goes, \u201cJust go down to the end of the field and hit it.\u201d<br \/>\nSo we take off, and we misunderstood him\u2014we didn't know it at the<br \/>\ntime\u2014I found out later that's not what he meant.<\/p>\n<p>We're 80 yards away.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But he also said someone very well-known\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He said, \u201cOh, yeah; maybe you can break the record.\u201d That's right; I go, \u201cWhat do you mean \u2018\u2026the record\u2019?\u201d He goes, \u201cJim Zorn\u201d\u2014former NFL quarterback\u2014\"broke the record: four feet. He went four feet.\u201d I go, \u201cI'll break that record.\u201d I go out there; I put the pedal on the metal. I'm going\u2014it's 80 yards, and I'm coming\u2014and getting faster, and faster, and faster. The hill\u2014I am not kidding\u2014is almost as high as this ceiling. All the guys are up, standing on the hill; and I'm coming up. Everything in me is like, \u201cThere's no way! He meant keep your foot down. This is not\u2026\u201d I'm like, \u201cI should take my foot off.\u201d But I'm like, \u201cNope; he said, \u2018Do not\u2026\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u201cKeep it down.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So I never took my foot off. I hit the hill. I'm looking down; every guy is like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They're looking up.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I am 15 feet above them; and then, the thing's starting to tilt. I'm like, \u201cI am going to literally land on the front\/on the nose,\u201d and I do. I hit the front\u2014flip, flip, flip; three times\u2014I mean, it just boom, boom, boom. I'm all strapped in, because it was a five-harness thing. I reach out; turn off the engine. Denny runs out to me; he goes, \u201cDude, I thought you were dead.\u201d I go, \u201cYou told me to do this.\u201d He goes, \u201cDude, I did not mean what you did.\u201d And then he goes, \u201cDing, ding, ding; you broke the record.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat did I do?\u201d He goes, \u201cForty-eight feet.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: What? Forty-eight feet?!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I went 48 feet in the air and landed.<\/p>\n<p>KB: And the other one was four feet?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Four feet! Again, it's crazy.<\/p>\n<p>The only reason I'm telling you this story is it came to my mind when you guys were telling your story. KB, when you're saying that, I thought, \u201cWe don't want to live for Jesus like that. When we come to the scary hill; that Jesus is saying\u2014\u2018Go on a mission trip,\u2019 or \u2018Share the gospel\u2019; whatever it is\u2014we tiptoe. But I think there's a part of us, that Jesus says, \u2018Put the foot down and go, and I'm going to take you on a ride you're going to talk about someday on a podcast.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: That's right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But I think we're so afraid to do it; we never get the thrill. I mean, it was the<br \/>\nstupidest thing ever [that I did]. But when God calls us to do something in faith, we got to step out and do what you said.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: That's the story of the Bible. I mean, a lot of the big stories of faith that we see is God asking people to do hard stuff\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014impossible stuff.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014impossible stuff that we don't know what's on the other side of this: \u201cHey, Gideon, cut your army down.\u201d \u201cWhat do you mean?! This is the ancient near East. The way that people win wars here is who has more men and whose men are better at fighting. You're telling me to get rid of men? The other armies would laugh at us. What do you mean? This is a life-and-death situation. This is: \u2018Get ready to go to war\u2019; we could die.\u201d I think that it's God calling us to hard things. But because we see the power of God\u2014He shows His power in the midst of that\u2014that it's not us.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I guess my question would be: \u201cWhen was the last time that you did something you could not do it apart from God?\u201d\u2014something scary. It\u2019s like what you're saying, KB: \u201cI can't do this. I don't want to do it, and I'm not going to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: That's right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But God's like, \u201cWill you walk on the water with Me?\u201d So KB, end us with the challenge to our listeners of: \u201cWhat could this look like for us?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: Well, I'll give you this kind of framework; then, I'll give the challenge. First is: God doesn't ask us to do hard things for the hardness\u2019 sake. It's not like this is CrossFit; you know what I'm saying? \u201cWe need to live in the\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014\u201cdifficult.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"in nature.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But it is the hard thing for goodness\u2019 sake. Because on the other side\u2014and you know this as being in the professional context with athletes\u2014the harder you train, it makes the work on the field easier. So on the other side of training hard is freedom to do things that your opponent can't do on the field. And then, it also yields rewards that your opponent doesn't get: \u201cI trained harder; I studied the strategy harder. So then, when it came time to execute, that became the easy part actually.\u201d The hardness actually gives the championship because, as the famous words from Muhammad Ali: \u201cYou suffer for the moment, but you'll be a champion for a lifetime.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And this is a principle that we see in Scripture; is that you train yourself for godliness because, when you are godly, you're a better husband; you're a better father; you're a better citizen; you're a better neighbor. Think about who you are\u2014if you're holier, and more righteous, and more kind, and more compassionate\u2014the pathway to all of that is godliness. Jesus is dangerous in that He becomes a danger to all the things that put you in danger, and the means by which he gets you there requires some difficulty. Leaning into it is important.<\/p>\n<p>That's kind of the framework here: we are training for the gold medal\/for the championship. You are training\/following this for the goodness\/for goodness\u2019 sake or the thrill to be able to say you beat that dude's four-foot jump. Practically, I want to leave y'all with this, and I talk about this in Dangerous Jesus: \u201cDo not think that this is largely around God is going to, at some point, ask you to go move to the 10\/40 window; and maybe get martyred,\u201d or \u201cGod is going to ask you to, someday, He's going to ask you to empty out your Bank of America account; go sell every dollar you have.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>God may call you do those things. But it's probably more likely that God is going to talk to you about the simple things in your life; for example:<\/p>\n<p>You know that there might be a relationship that you're in right now that is absolutely bankrupting your faith. This person doesn't care about Jesus like you do. You know that there's no future; this isn't going anywhere. You know that your family, and your pastor, and your friends have been saying, \u201cHe's a problem,\u201d or \u201cI don't know if she's the right choice for you.\u201d I don't know; it might just be cutting off a relationship.<\/p>\n<p>Or leaving a job. It might be starting that business that God has been calling you to.<\/p>\n<p>It may be trusting God with your wayward child. You may have a situation where, all the things that you have trained the child up into, they are departing from it. Instead of leading in your anxiety\u2014leading in your fear, leading in your kind of instability about what might happen\u2014it may be giving them grace; loving them; being patient; trying to create a culture of kindness and mercy that might create a space that, when that child is ready to surrender to Jesus, they know exactly where they need to go. That is a difficult thing to do because we, for so long\u2014for most of our children; at least, for the first eight or nine years\u2014we feel a sense of control:\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Totally.<\/p>\n<p>KB: \u2014\"I'm shaping this,\u201d \u201cI'm directing this.\u201d But when that<br \/>\nautonomy starts to kick in, it can feel as though we have lost the control. But the truth of the matter is: we<br \/>\nwere never in control; that\u2019s God's child. And to be able to live in such a way where we are creating a culture that demonstrates to that child, who we might be in contention with, that we are trusting God; and we are loving them, even as we may see things that rub us the wrong way.<\/p>\n<p>That's another kind of risky, dangerous thing to do. But brothers and sisters, the stories that I have heard of fruit on the other side of that kind of commitment\u2014sanity for yourself and creating a space, for when the Lord finally breaks through\u2014they know that they had a parent who mirrored the character of Christ\/the character of the Father; and that, when it is time to come home, we know where to go.<\/p>\n<p>Whatever the hard thing might be, there's these small moments of faithfulness that don't need to be extraordinary. It's just these simple means of grace that God gives to us through simple obedience in our lives. That's the hard stuff that I think the Bible is mainly calling you into. And in doing those things, you find the love of Christ that makes you feel alive.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: KB, when you were saying that, I was thinking, \u201cThere's so many parents who listen to us. I would just say this to a parent: \u2018You've been telling your son or daughter that thing about the guy she's dating, or he's dating, and they're not listening. Play this podcast for her\/for him. They're going to listen to KB. They're not going to listen to us, and they're not going to listen to you; but they'll listen to KB and Ameen because [they] speak their language; and sometimes, as parents, we can't get through.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>KB: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And I\u2019ll also say this, because it's something that's really important to FamilyLife. We're a listener-supported ministry. People\u2014<\/p>\n<p>KB: I love it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014donate to us. So if this podcast is helping you\/this radio broadcast is helping you, I'm encouraging you to jump in, and say, \u201cI'm going to bless FamilyLife by giving a financial gift.\u201d And by the way, I know that's dangerous.<\/p>\n<p>KB: Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And here's the deal: if you give, we're going to send you Dangerous Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014any donation\u2014we will send you their book.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yeah, you can give $5 or $5,000; it's really whatever God leads you to give. FamilyLifeToday.com: make a donation there; or you can call us at 800-358-6329. That is 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and the word, TODAY. It\u2019ll bless us, and we'll bless you.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<br \/>\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife.com<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/311971","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=311971"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/311972"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=311971"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=311971"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=311971"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=311971"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=311971"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=311971"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}