{"id":311673,"date":"2025-01-13T03:55:28","date_gmt":"2025-01-13T08:55:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage-dave-ashley-willis\/"},"modified":"2025-01-13T03:55:30","modified_gmt":"2025-01-13T08:55:30","slug":"why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage-dave-ashley-willis","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage-dave-ashley-willis\/","title":{"rendered":"Why Emotional Health Matters for Your Marriage: Dave &#038; Ashley Willis"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Why&#8217;s emotional health a big deal in marriage? Bestselling authors Dave &#038; Ashley Willis share their story&#8211;and how vulnerability became their game changer.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why&#8217;s emotional health a big deal in marriage? Bestselling authors Dave &#038; Ashley Willis share their story&#8211;and how vulnerability became their game changer.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/6555f740-e202-4f5e-ab41-b24a0116493d\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:34:00","filesize":"31.17M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[10928],"cwp_profile":[9755],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-311673","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","podcast_series-healthy-intimacy-dave-ashley-willis","cwp_profile-dave-and-ashley-willis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/311673\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage-dave-ashley-willis","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/311673\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage-dave-ashley-willis","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"fS9kl8w5N7\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage-dave-ashley-willis\/\">Why Emotional Health Matters for Your Marriage: Dave &#038; Ashley Willis<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage-dave-ashley-willis\/embed\/#?secret=fS9kl8w5N7\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Why Emotional Health Matters for Your Marriage: Dave &#038; Ashley Willis&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"fS9kl8w5N7\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Why's emotional health a big deal in marriage? Bestselling authors Dave & Ashley Willis share their story--and how vulnerability became their game changer.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/naked-and-healthy-uncover-the-lifestyle-your-mind-body-spirit-and-marriage-need\/\">Purchase \"Naked and Healthy\" on the FamilyLife online shop<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.weekendtoremember.com\">Register to Weekend to Remember<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2025-01-13.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nWhy Emotional Health Matters for Your Marriage\r\n\r\nGuests:Dave and Ashley Willis\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Healthy Intimacy (Day 1 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:January 13, 2025\r\n\r\nDave Willis: Being mentally healthy\u2014what's happening in our mind\u2014is one of the \r\n\r\neasiest things to hide from our spouse. But if we hide what's happening in our minds \r\n\r\nand hearts from one another, it creates a wedge in the marriage, where God wants \r\n\r\nthere to be a bridge, where we can share all of it and bear one another's burdens. And \r\n\r\nso the depth of your honesty really determines the depth of your intimacy.\r\n\r\nAnn: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the re-lationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\r\n\r\nDave: And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nDave: So we don\u2019t often talk about 1999 in our marriage.\r\n\r\nAnn: Oh, 1999; ooh, yes.\r\n\r\nDave: It was one of the tougher years; why?\r\n\r\nAnn: I lost my very best friend to cancer, and it was my sister. She\u2019s my best friend; she led me to Jesus. She died of [emotion in voice]\u2014gosh, I get teary talking about it\u2014she died of lung cancer. My parents had never smoked, and she never did. She was gone within five months, leaving her four sons; and it was really a dark time for us in our lives.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; I mean, it was dark for you; it was dark for everyone really. And as your husband, I\u2019ve always said\u2014you know this\u2014one of the things I love about Ann Wilson is your StrengthsFinders [assessment]: like number two is positivity.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: If you walk in the kitchen one day, and you\u2019re not positive, I like fall on the floor. [Laughter] I can barely function, which is like I\u2019m so codependent on your positivity; but you went through\/our marriage went through 18 months; didn\u2019t it?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, I was grieving; and I could not conjure up anything. I was just at a dark, dark place, questioning everything; and I felt like I had absolutely nothing to give.\r\n\r\nDave: I can remember the day I heard you laugh in the garage; I was in the kitchen. I think it was two years that I hadn\u2019t heard you laugh\/like belly laugh. \r\n\r\nWe\u2019re bringing that up because when one of the spouses, or both, are really struggling emotionally or mentally, it can really impact a marriage.\r\n\r\nAnn: And I think it can lead one or both of you reeling, not knowing where to go, what to do. You\u2019re wondering, \u201cWill our marriage survive this?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; so I\u2019m excited because we\u2019ve got two friends in the studio today, Dave and Ashley Willis, who\u2014I didn\u2019t say Dave and Ann Wilson\u2014Dave and Ashley Willis. \r\n\r\nAnn: Welcome to FamilyLife Today. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave Willis: Thank you!\r\n\r\nAshley: Thank you.\r\n\r\nDave: You\u2019re sitting over there, being so polite. You know you can\u2019t interrupt us, and here you are sitting in the studio. You guys have this amazing ministry that you have committed\u2014has it been two decades or so of your lives?\u2014to helping marriages, like what we just described, thrive in the midst of good times and tough times; right?\r\n\r\nAshley: Yes; I mean, we definitely have walked through some dark times, just like what you described. Yes, it\u2019s our heart to help people navigate these things. Because it\u2019s those times that, even though we are personally going through a hard time, I think we can turn and kind of put it on our spouse and think: \u201cOh, did I marry the wrong person?\u201d or \u201cMaybe the marriage is the problem. Maybe it\u2019s all their fault after all.\u201d \r\n\r\nSo we want to help couples\u2014just like you guys are doing\u2014help them see they can get through these hard times and, not only that, that there\u2019s really kind of a strength you find on the other side of that. When you lean into each other, and really give it to God through that hard time, you can really grow stronger through it.\r\n\r\nDave: Tell us a little bit about Dave and Ashley Willis, because you have, for two decades, at least, really impacted marriages. And then, you start this thing\u2014you\u2019ve got to tell me what this means: Naked Marriage\u2014that\u2019s your ministry; that\u2019s your podcast. The book we\u2019re going to dive in today\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014that\u2019s compelling. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014is Naked and Healthy. Obviously, you have a title like Naked Marriage; that gets people interested. What\u2019s that all about?\r\n\r\nDave Willis: It does; we\u2019re not part of a nudist colony\u2014[Laughter]\u2014just to clarify. Naked Marriage goes back to God\u2019s original design for marriage. The first picture He gave us of marriage is in Genesis, Chapter 2\u2014He says that that first couple, Adam and Eve\u2014they were naked and unashamed. That nakedness wasn\u2019t just a picture of physical intimacy, even though that\u2019s a beautiful part of it; but it\u2019s a picture of having nothing to hide from each other and being completely vulnerable\/completely open. And that\u2019s what God desires for marriage. \r\n\r\nWe\u2019ve tried to build our own marriage that way through all of God\u2019s principles for what a marriage should be\u2014and just be a safe place, where other couples can talk about it\u2014whether it\u2019s sending us messages online, which was happening long before we ever had a podcast or were doing marriage ministry, full time, the way we are now. We\u2019re just trying to point people back to God\u2019s design in a world that\u2019s gotten really confused about issues around sex and marriage, and what it all means, and what it\u2019s all supposed to look like. God\u2019s perfect plan is still perfect, and we\u2019re just trying to help point people back to that.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes\u2014and it\u2019s one of the things I really appreciate about your ministry\u2014is it\u2019s biblical; I mean, it\u2019s centered on the Word of God. It\u2019s vulnerable\u2014that\u2019s the naked part\u2014naked and unashamed. You\u2019re always helping; you\u2019re literally helping couples. \r\n\r\nIt\u2019s real interesting\u2014as I picked up your latest book, Naked and Healthy, it really gets into what we started with\u2014the mind and the emotions; how that affects a marriage\u2014the body or the physical, and the spiritual. \r\n\r\nHere\u2019s the thing: before we even dive into that\u2014because I really want to talk about where we started today: the emotional part of a marriage\u2014but one of the things that we do; and we got to talk about this now, because there\u2019s a promotion going on right now with FamilyLife. You can go to the Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaway half off, and spend Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday morning learning how to build a marriage that God wants you to have. It's a great weekend.\r\n\r\nAnn: It really truly changed our marriage; it changed our life. I feel like it changed our \r\n\r\nlegacy. And so to get half off is an amazing deal off that registration price.\r\n\r\nDave: Yeah; so I'd say, even right now, go online\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014sign \r\n\r\nup; have a great weekend. It's going to literally change your life. \r\n\r\nAlright; so now, talk about the emotional part.\r\n\r\nAnn: You have your own personal story of how this played out in your marriage, where this\u2014the mental and emotional part\u2014affected you in your marriage in a negative way.\r\n\r\nAshley: Very much so. Dave and I got married pretty young; I was actually still in college when we got married. Dave graduated from college one weekend; we got married the next weekend. He started working for the college that I was attending. It was just this fairytale for us; and being na\u00efve and being very young, we just thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve got this.\u201d We were also both communication majors; and so we thought, \u201cWe know how to communicate, and our marriage is just going to be awesome.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave Willis: Yes; \u201cNo problem.\u201d\r\n\r\nAshley: Exactly; \u201cNo problem.\u201d We get married\u2014and you know, we\u2019re in that honeymoon phase\u2014but very quickly, I just noticed that I\u2019m not quite myself. I\u2019m having trouble sleeping. I had these lingering, plaguing, negative thoughts and fears that I had a really hard time shaking off. And then\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Ashley, before you go on, tell me about those thoughts and fears. What was going through your head?\r\n\r\nAshley: Oh my goodness! Really, it was like an onslaught of just trying to\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014I think I went through an identity crisis, really, because we were actually having a little bit of trouble with some family members in the beginning of our marriage. It really threw me for a loop to be honest with you. It was very earth-shattering in my little world. It caused me to have a little bit of a: \u201cWho am I?\u201d because this relationship\u2014that I really had almost just depended on, and defined myself by\u2014was, all of a sudden, just crumbling to the ground. Things weren\u2019t really how I thought they were; it really sent me into a massive depression. \r\n\r\nThen I started having\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: This is year one?\r\n\r\nAshley: This is in the first year. It happened within like the first two weeks. It just\u2014I mean, it was like day after day\u2014I mean, the holidays would come; and it would get worse on the holidays. It was just terrible; it went on for several years. \r\n\r\nAnn: So let me go to you, Dave. So here you are\u2014you\u2019re newly-married, like, \u201cOh, this is going to be amazing!\u201d\u2014and here Ashley is in this phase of life\/in this depression. Were you thinking, \u201cWhat just happened?\u201d Like were you doubting, \u201cWho is she?\u201d \r\n\r\nDave Willis: No, no; I never doubted, \u201cWho is she?\u201d; but I was still completely terrified at the situation. I knew who I married; I never had a doubt in my mind at all about that. I was so thankful, and have been every day of our marriage, that she\u2019s my wife; but I just didn\u2019t know how to help. I didn\u2019t know how to get us\/how to lead through that. I didn\u2019t know what I was supposed to do; I didn\u2019t know what she was supposed to do. \r\n\r\nIt became a time in our marriage, where we really had to lean on God like never before. It was a good way to start out in that way, because it forced us to realize the obvious; which is, \u201cWe can\u2019t do everything in our own strength. We need the Lord.\u201d That isn\u2019t just something we said; like that is something, in that moment, we had to live. We had to say: \u201cGod, help us do this. Show us what to do.\u201d God helped us in a lot of ways through that. It was a slow process. Usually, the healing happens in slow processes; unfortunately. We want it to happen fast, but it\u2019s usually a journey.\r\n\r\nAnn: You were saying how many years?\r\n\r\nAshley: It went on for, at least, four years. I can distinctly remember\u2014like you kind of with depression\u2014anybody who is listening to this, when you\u2019re first depressed, you kind of get used to it. You don\u2019t realize that\u2019s what you\u2019re going through, and you kind of chalk it up to sadness; or \u201cI\u2019m just having problems with this one relationship in my life,\u201d\u2014or whatever it is\u2014you call it circumstantial. \r\n\r\nBut I\u2014looking back, I think it was actually probably even more than four years\u2014but definitely four distinct years, where I would\u2014I mean, I was crying; I would just cry all the time. I literally, just like the commercials you see on TV for antidepressants, I literally felt like this little dark cloud was following me around; and I didn\u2019t want to do the things I once enjoyed. I just felt like a shell of a person. \r\n\r\nI remember that\u2019s when the enemy came in and just really played on that. It was like he just tried to mess with me even more and started kind of feeding me these lies\u2014like: \u201cYou know what? Dave\u2019s going to leave you. You\u2019re not really the woman he married anymore,\u201d and \u201cAre you really saved? Are you really saved if you are thinking these dark thoughts,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if you\u2019re doubting God?\u201d or \u201c\u2026you\u2019re questioning your marriage?\u201d\u2014or whatever it is\u2014\u201cHow dare you even think that\u201d; like, \u201cYou should be ashamed.\u201d I just had all those really terrible lies going through my mind. \r\n\r\nIt got really dark kind of in the midst of that four-year journey, of even thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I even want to live,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t know if I really want to continue living. If this is living, I don\u2019t want it.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: And talk about, spiritually, what did you feel? What were you praying in that time?\r\n\r\nAshley: I would pray; I will tell you there\u2019s never been another time in my life where I\u2019ve \r\n\r\ncried out to the Lord so much. Actually, my depression\u2014as it often does for a lot of \r\n\r\npeople\u2014went into anxiety as well. And I would have anxiety attacks at night, where my \r\n\r\nheart would be beating out of my chest. I'd be in a cold sweat, and I'd have to run to the \r\n\r\nbathroom and physically get ill\u2014because there are physical manifestations for mental \r\n\r\nillness\u2014and I would be in the bathroom just crying and literally, out loud, saying, \u201cLord, \r\n\r\nplease take this away from me. Please just give me hope\u201d; just crying out. A lot of times, \r\n\r\ntoo\u2014because I've heard from a lot of different people who've gone through anxiety and \r\n\r\ndepression\u2014it usually happens at night. It's usually in those wee hours. I would turn on \r\n\r\nChristian television; and I would just be trying to hear from God: \u201cI just need something.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd every time, He would; God always comes right when you need Him. \r\n\r\nBut for me, personally, it wasn't like, \u201cPoof; it's gone.\u201d It was a journey; it was a gradual \r\n\r\nprocess. I did go to Christian counseling; that was a game-changer for me. My Christian\/I actually went to two different ones, because we moved kind of in the middle of my depression. Both of my counselors really kind of helped me to do what the Bible says to do: to take your thoughts captive and to replace them with God\u2019s truth. That was something that I had to learn, because I really felt helpless there for a while. And when I was first going through it, too, I didn't even tell Dave. I know he knew something was up, because I just wasn't quite myself. \r\n\r\nBut when I finally told him, I mean as my spouse, he didn't judge me. He didn\u2019t say, \u201cYou know what? You are right; you are damaged goods. I think I\u2019m going to move on.\u201d He didn\u2019t shame me at all, like, \u201cYou\u2019re not supposed to worry.\u201d Guys listening: \u201cThe worst thing you can say to a depressed person is: \u2018You\u2019re not supposed to worry. Your worry is a sin.\u2019\u201d It just makes us feel worse.\r\n\r\nAnn: Or: \u201cYou\u2019re depressed, again, today?\u201d\r\n\r\nAshley: Yes; \u201cI thought you were over this.\u201d It\u2019s not that easy; it can become a stronghold in your life. But I also want to say, with that, in those prayers\u2014in those moments when I was crying out to God\u2014I\u2019ve never felt Him so close. I literally felt the verse that says He is close to the brokenhearted. Over time, I could see Him giving me beauty for my ashes\u2014because I did; I felt like ashes\u2014I felt like the beautiful life I thought I was going to live with Dave. At the time, I had small children. Even when I was going through this, I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s just burning in flames,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m the one; it\u2019s me. It\u2019s my fault.\u201d I just had to learn that mental illness is no respecter of persons\u2014Christian or not\u2014we can go through this. But God is our healer, and with His help\u2014and if you\u2019re married, please help your spouse; lean into your spouse in this\u2014but with helping each other through this, you can come through it. \r\n\r\nI\u2019ve been on the other side of this for years\u2014praise Jesus\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve been free from anxiety and depression for years; and I\u2019m so, so grateful.\r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019m guessing you guys have met people that the spouse hasn\u2019t responded the way Dave responded to you, Ashley. \r\n\r\nAshley: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: Have you seen a negative toll that it plays out if you don\u2019t respond in a kind, and generous, and grace-giving way?\r\n\r\nDave Willis: Absolutely. I didn\u2019t know what to say during those times\u2014like I didn\u2019t have any\/there was nothing magical that I said or did that helped\u2014but I just knew, \u201cI just need to make sure she knows she\u2019s not going to face this alone.\u201d I just reminded her, over and over, that: \u201cI\u2019m here. We\u2019re going to get through this together.\u201d I was not a perfect husband back then; I don\u2019t want to paint this picture that I was this rock, who was doing everything right; because I was like, in my own ways, kind of messed up then. I was struggling; I felt inadequate and insecure, because I didn\u2019t completely know how to help. \r\n\r\nI was making some choices, part of which\u2014not to dive too deep into this now\u2014but I had \r\n\r\nhad a past struggle, before we got married, with pornography. And I fell back into that in \r\n\r\nthose early years of our marriage. And that put all kinds of strain and confusion \r\n\r\nmentally, spiritually, and otherwise on both of us. And certainly, when that came out, \r\n\r\ndidn't do anything at all to help Ashley to come out of her depression. I mean, if \r\n\r\nanything, it probably made that worse. And so it became another area where in that I \r\n\r\nwasn't helping with the healing. I was actually adding to the wound. And so we had to \r\n\r\ncome together to really find healing in the Lord and grace and hope in the Lord.\r\n\r\nBut if you are dealing with depression or anxiety, the way that Ashley was, some of the things she did\u2014that I just commend her for that God really blessed and used\u2014is like, number one, she chose to hold onto God\u2019s promises, even when she was feeling something different. Our culture kind of says: \u201cYour feelings are always right,\u201d \u201cYour feelings are your god,\u201d \u201cYour feelings are your truth, and you just hold onto that.\u201d But she said, \u201cNo, my feelings are lying to me right now. My feelings are real\u2014I mean, they\u2019re real; and I\u2019m feeling the weight of the world on my shoulders\u2014but even though I don\u2019t feel it right now, I\u2019m holding onto God\u2019s promises that He\u2019s good; He\u2019s with me; He\u2019s for me; and that I\u2019m going to get through this.\u201d She kept feeding her mind things that reinforced that message. \r\n\r\nShe was so disciplined in saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to read the Word today, even though I\u2019m not feeling it. I\u2019m going to put God\u2019s Word in my mind through what I\u2019m listening to and what I\u2019m watching. I\u2019m going to surround myself with people who love me and encouraging voices; because I know I\u2019m really vulnerable right now. If I\u2019m listening to the wrong voices, it could have a really negative impact. I\u2019m going to get into counseling.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd I encouraged her in all those things. But she did the work, and she continued to \r\n\r\nwalk that path; and God did the rest over time. It wasn't quick; but over time, that fog \r\n\r\nreally lifted. And then she used that as part of her testimony and has helped thousands \r\n\r\nof people who are feeling the same thing. And we're in a time right now, just in what our \r\n\r\nworld's been through these last couple years, where there's never been more anxiety, \r\n\r\nand depression, and confusion, and uncertainty. Now, more than ever, we need to do \r\n\r\nthose things that Ashley was doing all those years ago: turn back to the truth of God's \r\n\r\nWord, and to surround ourselves with the right voices; and maybe, detox from all the \r\n\r\nnegative news out there in the world, and say, \u201cI want to just kind of fast from that for a \r\n\r\nwhile; and I want to feed on God's Word and surround myself with people who love me.\u201d\r\n\r\nHealing can happen; God wants you to live with healing. He\u2019s not given us a spirit of fear; He wants to give you a spirit of a sound mind. If you don\u2019t feel that right now, don\u2019t beat yourself up. Don\u2019t convince yourself that it\u2019s because you\u2019re some kind of terrible sinner. This is just part of being a human being. Sometimes, we deal with brokenness; but God wants to carry you through it.\r\n\r\nDave: Now, did either one of you guys ever feel like or sort of blame your marriage for the problems you were having? I think, often, we can get in a marriage\u2014and you go through something like what Ashley was going through\u2014and you [say], \u201cWell, if I wouldn\u2019t have married you\u2026\u201d or \u201cIf I wouldn\u2019t have got married, I\u2019d be in a different place; I\u2019d be okay.\u201d It\u2019s easy to blame the marriage when the marriage isn\u2019t the problem, but did you find yourself ever doing that?\r\n\r\nAshley: I think\u2014I don't want to speak for you\u2014but I think when we were having all that \r\n\r\ntrouble with some family members, I'm sure that crossed your mind. \r\n\r\nDave Willis: No; it really didn't. It really didn't because one of the few things I knew for \r\n\r\nsure is that that I married the right person. And if you're out there\u2014\u201cI don't know if I \r\n\r\nmarried the right person,\u201d\u2014\u201cHey, listen guys, the moment you said, \u2018I do,\u2019 they became \r\n\r\nthe right person. You've committed your life to them; God has made you one.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: But you never struggled with that; she's going through this thing you didn't see \r\n\r\ncoming.\r\n\r\nDave Willis:Man, I struggle with so many things in my life, so many things; but one thing I have not struggled with is saying, like, \u201cOh man, I wish I would have not married her.\u201d Like I\u2019ve really\/honestly, I\u2019ve had all kinds of terrible thoughts, and dumb thoughts, and sinful thoughts; but that thought has never really entered my mind. I\u2019m like, \u201cI know\/I know that I\u2019m with the person that I\u2019m meant to be with for my whole life.\u201d I\u2019m so thankful for her; even in our toughest time\/in her darkest time, I was so thankful to be her husband. If anything, I just felt more of a sense of urgency to remind her of that; because she didn\u2019t believe that, even though it was true.\r\n\r\nYou know, our feelings can lie to us; so I just tried to remind her every way I could, like: \u201cI love you so much,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m so honored to get to be your husband,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to get through this together.\u201d Her mind wouldn\u2019t let her believe it at the time, but it was true; and I kept saying it.\r\n\r\nAshley: Well, I would even say things like, \u201cHey, I know I\u2019m not keeping my end of the bargain here,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m not really who you married; and I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m ever going to be that woman again, so if you want to leave it\u2019s okay.\u201d I would literally say that; I would say, \u201cIt\u2019s okay.\u201d We would have those late nights\u2014\r\n\r\nDave Willis: And I would say, \u201cNo!\u201d\r\n\r\nAshley: I was like: \u201cI'm giving you an out,\u201d \u201cI'm giving you an out.\u201d \r\n\r\nHe just\u2014and it would be [the same with] you guys\u2014\u201cIt's never convenient when \r\n\r\nyou're going through struggles in your marriage, or in life for that matter.\u201d He'd have a \r\n\r\nfull day of work the next day. I was a student, probably a senior in college at this \r\n\r\ntime, and my classes wouldn't start until later; but I'd wake him up usually like 2:00\/3:00 \r\n\r\nin the morning, out of desperation. I would try not to, but I was just so desperate. I'd \r\n\r\nbeen toiling for hours over whatever thoughts I had that night that were plaguing me. \r\n\r\nHe would be in a fog; and I would just say, \u201cI'm feeling so bad, and I got sick \r\n\r\ntonight. I feel so bad. You know what? You shouldn't have to deal with this. I'm a mess; \r\n\r\nI'm just a mess. And clearly, I've done something wrong\u2014completely wrong \r\n\r\nhere\u2014you have an out. You have an out; you deserve so much better than me. You \r\n\r\ndeserve so much better.\u201d And every time, he would say, Ashley, I'm not going \r\n\r\nanywhere.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s a gift. \r\n\r\nAshley: Oh my gosh, yes!\r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s a true gift\u2014that we can say that to our spouse\u2014when they\u2019re struggling. \r\n\r\nI\u2019m thinking, too, of Romans 12:2; and I love that Scripture: \u201cDo not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed\u201d\u2014how?\u2014\u201cby the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God\u2019s will is: His good, pleasing and perfect will.\u201d I think\u2014not being conformed to the world but being transformed by the renewing of our minds\u2014when I was going through my grieving of my sister\u2014and I would say that\u2019s probably the time in my life where I was the most depressed; would you say that, Dave?\r\n\r\nDave: Oh yes; yes, definitely.\r\n\r\nAnn: But I found myself the same, Ashley\u2014like my mind is reeling of: \u201cWhat kind of God would take this 44-year-old woman, who has four kids?\u201d\u2014and then I would be asking, like, \u201cWhat if that happens to me?\u201d Your mind goes crazy, especially at night.\r\n\r\nLearning to take those thoughts captive\u2014man, that was hard\u2014because my whole life, I\u2019d just let my mind go. When you think of captivity, you think of a cage; like you\u2019re going to put those thoughts in a cage and not let them run wild. Learning how to do that can take some time. How did you\/like what was your discipline? How did you do that?\r\n\r\nAshley: One of the most helpful things to me\u2014I actually read a book\u2014and it\u2019s an old Beth Moore book. It\u2019s called Praying God\u2019s Word. One thing Beth Moore put in that book\u2014but this is something anyone listening could do on their own\u2014is there was like a perforated section with just Scripture. She had a little blurb in there, saying like, \u201cListen, even Jesus Himself when He was going through his hardest time in the desert and being tempted, He would quote Scripture to the enemy. He would say, \u2018No, no, no; this is what God says\u2026\u2019 out loud.\u201d There\u2019s so much power in that. Also, even if you\u2019re not saying out loud\u2014which I highly recommend\u2014even surrounding yourself in those places that you frequent\u2014like your car, your bathroom, your bedside table\u2014putting the words there is powerful. That\u2019s how you can be reminded; because as you start to have that thought, you remember that verse and you\u2019re really meditating on that verse. \r\n\r\nI did that; and I still, from time to time, do that. It was just Proverbs 3:5-6\u2014it was probably my verse that I would cling to so much\u2014not trusting in my own understanding. Because at that time, I literally couldn\u2019t trust my own understanding; because my mind was not healthy. It helped me by putting different verses like that\u2014it just really helped bathe\/kind of wash my mind with God\u2019s truth\u2014and it renewed it over time.\r\n\r\nYou know, the things we tend to focus on\u2014actually, this is a Lysa TerKeurst quote that I love\u2014she says, \u201cThe mind feasts on what it focuses on.\u201d I wanted to feast on God\u2019s Word; I didn\u2019t want to feast on the lies of the devil. I wanted to feast on His Word\/on His truth. Truly, when I was feasting on His Word by just focusing on it, it\u2019s healing. I mean, His Word is healing; and it really, really helped me tremendously. I wouldn\u2019t have been able to get through that time without it.\r\n\r\nDave: I\u2019m just thinking of a listener\u2014maybe a couple is going through what you went through\u2014and I know we\u2019re not sitting here, like you never struggle again.\r\n\r\nAshley: Oh, yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I mean, it isn\u2019t like it was done and over; but you have helped so many. I\u2019m just thinking, \u201cMan, you\u2019ve given us like a prescription.\u201d And again, I know there\u2019s no step one, step two; but getting your eyes off of the problem and onto the Lord, getting them in the Word. \r\n\r\nOne of the things that really impacted us in that time period [after Ann\u2019s sister\u2019s death] was worship music.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nAshley: Oh yes, yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I remember we would go to church; and often, I would be in the band, playing. I sort of said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to play for a while. I want to be just standing and singing.\u201d We couldn\u2019t sing; we would just weep. I remember I\u2019d look over, and Ann was on her knees, just weeping\u2014could barely get the words out\u2014but being in [His] presence and going vertical was powerful.\r\n\r\nAnn: There was something about, when you worship, your heart has to become soft and absorbs. Whereas before, wherever I\u2019d go, I\u2019d shut down my heart; because it hurt too badly. But when music came\u2014and worship music\u2014the intimacy of God\u2019s words tended to just pour into my heart. I would just cry, because the emotion of it. I feel like that\u2019s super healing.\r\n\r\nDave: So as you think back to that season of your marriage, how did that journey \r\n\r\nimpact your passion to help people have naked marriages?\r\n\r\nAshley: Oh my goodness; it had a great impact on it; because when I was first going \r\n\r\nthrough my depression, I really hid it from Dave because I didn't want him to see that \r\n\r\npart of me. I think I was thinking like, \u201cWell, this is just going to go away quickly. I don't \r\n\r\nwant him to even know I'm having these dark thoughts.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: \u201cYou don't even need to bring it up.\u201d\r\n\r\nAshley: Right; \u201cI don't even need to bring it up.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Let me ask you: \u201cCould you hide it?\u201d \u201cDid you not see it?\u201d\r\n\r\nDave Willis: As a young husband, I was pretty oblivious to a lot of things. I missed a lot \r\n\r\nof pretty obvious nonverbal cues, but I knew something was off; but\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014didn't know.\r\n\r\nDave Willis: \u2014I didn't know. I was not equipped to really, really know. And in the book,\r\n\r\nwhere we talk about mental health, I think being mentally healthy\u2014what's happening in \r\n\r\nour mind\u2014is one of the easiest things to hide from our spouse. And so you really need \r\n\r\nthe naked marriage [in this area], maybe more even than the other areas, because it's \r\n\r\neasy to hide what's happening in your head\u2014the thoughts, the fears you're struggling \r\n\r\nwith\u2014in my case, the sin I was struggling with, these lustful images in my mind. In \r\n\r\nAshley's case, dealing and wrestling with anxiety, and depression, and fear, and \r\n\r\nuncertainty; and feeling like she had to keep that hidden from us. \r\n\r\nIf we hide what's happening in our minds and hearts from one another, it closes \r\n\r\nus off and creates a wedge in the marriage, where God wants there to be a bridge, \r\n\r\nwhere we can share all of it and bear one another's burdens. And so you've got \r\n\r\nwhatever it is that you're facing\u2014whatever it is in your mind that you haven't really \r\n\r\nrevealed to your spouse\u2014bring that out. It's going to bring your intimacy to a whole new \r\n\r\nlevel because the depth of your honesty really determines the depth of your intimacy.\r\n\r\nBut any form of secrecy cuts us off from healing, and it cuts us off from our spouse. The \r\n\r\nenemy's game is to keep us in isolation\u2014that's always his game plan\u2014is to keep us \r\n\r\nisolated; get us to deal with stuff on our own. God's plan for healing always happens in \r\n\r\nrelationship\u2014a relationship with Him, first and foremost\u2014but then, within marriage \r\n\r\nespecially, it happens within the relationship and being able to confess to each other, \r\n\r\nand pray for each other, and bear that burden together. And so when Ashley really \r\n\r\ntrusted me with her struggle, even though it didn't instantly bring healing\u2014what it did \r\n\r\nis\u2014it instantly started to bring healing in our marriage; because now, we could face it \r\n\r\ntogether. And now, it wasn't as heavy for her to carry; because I was helping carry it too.\r\n\r\nAshley: It's so true. And we always say: \u201cIn marriage, it's never his problem or her \r\n\r\nproblem; it's always our problem.\u201d I didn't realize that at the time; but really, even \r\n\r\nthough I'm the one who's going through mental illness, it's still affecting my marriage. It's \r\n\r\nstill something that Dave is dealing with, whether I'm telling him or not. It wasn't right for \r\n\r\nme to keep it from him. But also, I think what actually motivated me to tell him was just \r\n\r\nout of desperation and needing help. And again, I probably woke him up at 2:00 in the\r\n\r\nmorning and just kind of told him really what's going on. I did feel a release. I felt such a \r\n\r\nrelease, and also a relief of: \u201cHe's seeing all of me; and this man still loves me, and he \r\n\r\nstill wants to be with me. I'm truly naked and unashamed.\u201d Dave\u2014his willingness to \r\n\r\nhear me out, and to be there for me, and kind of hang in the corner with me, so to \r\n\r\nspeak\u2014it really did help me get rid of the shame, because I think shame was a huge \r\n\r\nissue for me back in those days. And when you realize that there's no shame here\u2014that \r\n\r\nyou just need healing; and you need Jesus; and God wants you to bring it out into the \r\n\r\nlight\u2014that's when the healing happens.\r\n\r\nDave: Well, talk to the couple who\u2019s afraid; because bringing something from the dark, \r\n\r\nthat's a secret to your spouse, is a scary thing. And a lot of times, we are so afraid we \r\n\r\ndon't. But you both\u2014I mean, Davey shared your struggle with porn; you shared your \r\n\r\nstruggle with mental health\u2014that's a scary moment to step over that threshold. And yet, \r\n\r\nwe sit here and go, \u201cOh, it's the best thing.\u201d Yet, I know there's a couple going, \u201cMaybe \r\n\r\nfor them, but not for us.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: We're so afraid we'll be rejected.\r\n\r\nDave: Yeah; so what would you say to them?\r\n\r\nDave Willis: Well, I'll say the mistake that I made is that I had to be caught for it to \r\n\r\nreally come out. And what that did is it created an extra barrier of trust to be rebuilt. I \r\n\r\nwish I could go back\u2014and obviously, not have done it at all\u2014but have had the courage \r\n\r\nto share it. Once it did come out, then I got real honest real fast. But I just tell folks: \r\n\r\n\u201cListen, the Bible says it and it's true. What's done in secret is going to be shouted from \r\n\r\nthe rooftops. One way or another what you're hiding is going to come out; it's just going \r\n\r\nto. And so you might as well be the one to take initiative and be the one to bring it out, \r\n\r\nbecause that's going to help the healing process; that's going to help trust be rebuilt \r\n\r\nfaster.\u201d \r\n\r\nIt's going to come out one way or the other, and so you be the one to do it. You \r\n\r\ntrust God to do the rest and actually have that courage and faith to say, \u201cI'm going to \r\n\r\nbring this out. I'm going to be the one to say it and bring it out in the open.\u201d Once we \r\n\r\nbring something from the darkness out into the light, it instantly has less power over us; \r\n\r\nthat's just the way God wires things. I think that she felt some freedom and healing start \r\n\r\nto happen the moment that she brought it out in the open.\r\n\r\nAshley: I did. And vulnerability in marriage is key. But I think the reason so many of us \r\n\r\nare scared to share things like this in marriage is because we live in a culture that says \r\n\r\nyou're crazy if you're going to be that vulnerable. I remember distinctly one time we\u2019re \r\n\r\nhaving this kind of conversation, explaining the naked marriage, to a single man; \r\n\r\nbut he had been dating. The look on his face\u2014he looked at us so perplexed\u2014like, \r\n\r\n\u201cYou're serious. You're serious about saying everything: not having any secrets, and not\r\n\r\n having any hidden bank accounts, and not having passwords on your devices and \r\n\r\nthings like that.\u201d And I was like, \u201cYes, in marriage, in order to have the kind of marriage God wants us to have, you got to put it out on the table.\u201d He kind of paused for a moment; and he said, \u201cI've never trusted someone like that in my entire life, and I don't know if I ever can. That is so scary to me.\u201d I think he used the word, scary. He said, \u201cThat scares me to death.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd my heart kind of sank; because I thought, \u201cThat's just the world we live in.\u201d I think a \r\n\r\nlot of it comes from culture telling us that. But I also think it's because of brokenness. I \r\n\r\nthink that, a lot of times, we don't trust our spouse for something that somebody else did \r\n\r\nto us. Maybe our spouse didn't even do it; but it's like we couldn't really trust our mom or \r\n\r\nour dad, or we couldn't trust\u2014maybe, you were married before; and your previous \r\n\r\nspouse, you couldn't trust them\u2014but I just want to challenge you: \u201cTo trust God and \r\n\r\ntrust God with it.\u201d \r\n\r\nIn our case, with Dave's pornography issue\u2014I was angry; I had my doubts, and I was \r\n\r\ndisgusted\u2014and I felt all those things, but I knew that God was bigger. I knew that Dave \r\n\r\nwasn't defined by his sin just like he knew I wasn't defined by my mental illness. And so \r\n\r\nthat's when we have to dig deep and pray. And just like you were saying, Ann, earlier\u2014\r\n\r\nabout God keeping our hearts soft through worship and through prayer\u2014in marriage, \r\n\r\nthat is so key; because when we are praying together with and for each other, He does \r\n\r\nsomething miraculous, where He really softens our hearts towards each other. We \r\n\r\nbegin to be less afraid because, honestly, prayer is probably one of the most vulnerable \r\n\r\nthings you can do with your spouse and the most intimate thing you can do with your \r\n\r\nspouse. I would encourage couples to start there if they're scared.\r\n\r\nDave: We're Dave and Ann Wilson. We've been talking with Dave and Ashley Willis; I \r\n\r\nlove those guys. \r\n\r\nAnn: I love them.\r\n\r\nDave: They are always great to have on. And their book that you need to get\u2014let me \r\n\r\ntell you: \u201cGet it today,\u201d\u2014is called Naked &amp;amp; Healthy: Uncover the Lifestyle Your Mind, \r\n\r\nBody, Spirit, and Marriage Need. It's a long title, but the book covers all of that. And you \r\n\r\ncan get it today; just go to FamilyLifeToday.com to get that book. Or if you want, give us \r\n\r\na call at 800-358-6329. Again, that's 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word, \r\n\r\nTODAY, to get their book. \r\n\r\nBut I got to tell you something else. We've been talking about being healthy. You want \r\n\r\nto get healthy in your marriage?\u2014come to the Weekend to Remember: marriage \r\n\r\ngetaway that we put on all around the country.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014and it's half price. That sale is going on through January 20; so jump in on this \r\n\r\noffer because it will help your marriage.\r\n\r\nDave: Half off; you can't beat it. I'm telling you: \u201cThis is the time to do it, because it's not \r\n\r\ngoing to be on sale forever.\u201d Go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and you can sign up right \r\n\r\nthere.\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2025 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com                                 \r\n\r\n\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/311673","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=311673"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=311673"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=311673"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=311673"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=311673"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=311673"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=311673"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}