{"id":310441,"date":"2024-11-20T03:15:14","date_gmt":"2024-11-20T08:15:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/loneliness-in-the-bible-steve-jennifer-dewitt\/"},"modified":"2024-11-20T03:15:15","modified_gmt":"2024-11-20T08:15:15","slug":"loneliness-in-the-bible-steve-jennifer-dewitt","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loneliness-in-the-bible-steve-jennifer-dewitt\/","title":{"rendered":"Loneliness in the Bible: Steve &#038; Jennifer DeWitt"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>When it comes to coping with loneliness, not all strategies are equal. Loneliness is a natural part of life, but Steve and Jennifer DeWitt argue it can be redeemed when approached biblically. Listen in to their conversation with Dave and Ann Wilson!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When coping with loneliness, not all strategies are equal. Loneliness is a natural part of life, but Steve and Jennifer DeWitt argue it can be redeemed.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":310318,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/0b9f42ab-e54b-4723-bedb-b21701222229\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:35","filesize":"28.05M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2934],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[10895],"cwp_profile":[10884],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-310441","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-relationships","podcast_series-loneliness-dont-hate-it-or-waste-it-steve-jennifer-dewitt","cwp_profile-steve-and-jennifer-dewitt","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/11\/image_e7b8b8.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/310441\/loneliness-in-the-bible-steve-jennifer-dewitt","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/310441\/loneliness-in-the-bible-steve-jennifer-dewitt","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"zqlISUGrZi\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loneliness-in-the-bible-steve-jennifer-dewitt\/\">Loneliness in the Bible: Steve &#038; Jennifer DeWitt<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loneliness-in-the-bible-steve-jennifer-dewitt\/embed\/#?secret=zqlISUGrZi\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Loneliness in the Bible: Steve &#038; Jennifer DeWitt&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"zqlISUGrZi\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["0b9f42ab-e54b-4723-bedb-b21701222229"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/0b9f42ab-e54b-4723-bedb-b21701222229\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:30:35"],"filesize":["28.05M"],"_thumbnail_id":["310318"],"show_notes":["\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Steve DeWitt and hear more of his thoughts on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/steve.dewitt.925\/\">Facebook<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>You can grab your copy of Steve & Jennifer's new book, \"Loneliness: Don't Hate it or Waste it. Redeem it\" <a href=\"https:\/\/www.moodypublishers.com\/loneliness\">here<\/a>\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>Don't miss out on FamilyLife's amazing Black Friday sale: Weekend to Remember gift cards are half off and devotionals are discounted from Nov. 18 to Dec. 2 at <a href=\"http:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>!<br \/>\n<hr>\n<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-11-20.pdf"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nLoneliness in the Bible\r\n\r\nGuests:Steve and Jennifer DeWitt\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Loneliness: Don\u2019t Hate It or Waste It (Day 3 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:November 20, 2024\r\n\r\nShelby: Hey, Shelby Abbott here. Many of us are just tired of the tension and the division that exists in our natural circles of influence: amongst our friends; and our extended family members; and maybe, even around our own kitchen table. Well, how do we do that? How are we supposed to love people and create unity when we live in a culture that's easily-angered and often-offended? It could feel like it's just impossible to dwell in unity with one another. \r\n\r\nWell, that's why I'm excited to invite you to join us, here at FamilyLife, for a five-week video series from our friend\u2014author, and comedian\u2014Amberly Neese. It's called \u201cMoving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World.\u201d And man, that is accurate; isn't it? We are living in a divisive world, and we need to move toward one another. In this five-week series, Amberly guides us on how to build peace in our own backyards when differing thoughts, and opinions, and beliefs threaten to create division. You could sign up, right now, by clicking on the link in the show notes; or you can go to FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround; that's FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround. Or you could click on the link in the show notes. \r\n\r\nAlright, let's hop into today's program.\r\n\r\nSteve:We get rid of loneliness by giving it away: \u201cWhose loneliness can I help meet?\u201d And that inversion of self\u2014the dying to self, the killing of the pride\u2014is the key: \u201cGive your loneliness away.\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nDave:I would say one of the loneliest people I ever knew was my mom. What do you think?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave:You didn't know I was going there.\r\n\r\nAnn: No, for sure!\r\n\r\nDave:Mom and Dad divorced when I was seven\u2014lost my little brother when he was five, within the next three months of that\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah, after the divorce.\r\n\r\nDave:I mean, she was a wonderful, incredible lady; but there was an ache that we all felt in her life. You knew that.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah; I think that\u2014and we've had friends; I lost my sister\u2014so I watched my sister's husband raise four boys. I'm thinking\u2014death of a spouse; I'm thinking widows; of death of a child\u2014there's just an ache. There's a piece of loneliness that I don't think a lot of us know how to deal with that and what to do with it.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; we've been talking the last couple of days with Steve DeWitt. Jennifer's with him, back in the studio, about loneliness. You wrote a book about it; but I mean, you've thought about this a lot. So even when you hear us talk about my mom, and people that experienced loneliness, all I have in my head right now, Steve, is what you've said the last two days. It\u2019s like, \u201cWell, God can redeem that. God can actually meet us in that; it isn't the worst thing in the world. It is dark and it is hard.\u201d But am I right? You've got me thinking about loneliness totally different.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nAnn: Me, too.\r\n\r\nDave:You really do; and you're smiling, like, \u201cThat's what I was hoping\u201d; right?\r\n\r\nSteve:That's the mission. Yeah, absolutely; \u201cLet's turn this inside out and see some good purposes in it.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Well, yesterday was fun; Jennifer, you came into the studio with Steve. You guys have two girls. We heard all about your proposal because, Steve, you were a single pastor of a mega church; and then, you got married to Jennifer at 44 years old.\r\n\r\nDave:Then, the ring came down from heaven; and people are like, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d \r\n\r\nSteve: I wish it came down from heaven; I had to pay for it.\r\n\r\nDave: It, literally, came down.\r\n\r\nAnn: So go back and listen to the last two days; because this is a topic that we all face and feel, and we don't always know what to do with it. But you've done a really good job of helping us see it in a different light.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; so talk to\u2014we mentioned my mom; and there are many people like that, they've lost the spouse\u2014for my mom, lost a spouse and a son; and Ann\u2019s lost her sister\u2014I mean, we've been there. I think a lot of our listeners, at some point, have either personally experienced it or know someone. It feels like the worst feeling in your life: \u201cIt's never going to go away,\u201d and \u201cI can't ever really get over it.\u201d I've met people who have lost a spouse or a child, and they never\u2014it\u2019s in your book\u2014\u201cDon't hate it or waste it; redeem it.\u201d They don't ever get to redemption, so how would you help them?\r\n\r\nSteve:Well, I would, first of all, begin from a point of deep compassion. And I would like to say that about anybody who\u2019s experiencing loneliness for whatever reason, I think we need to have great sympathy for the visceral, ongoing-experience of loneliness. Dave, I think you're right, the loneliness tries to convince us that: \u201cIt will always be this way, that this will never change. There's nothing we can do, and this is our plight.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd that is not true. It's not true biblically; it's not true eschatologically, in terms of God's plan for us in the future. But there are many things that we can do to mitigate loneliness and to redeem it. I\u2019ve talked already, at length, about it. But I would say\u2014for those who are in a marriage, where loneliness is chronically with them, or maybe they've lost a spouse or a loved one\u2014to, again, understand why we feel this way: \u201cWe feel this way because God designed us, as image bearers, to harmonize with Him vertically and with others horizontally.\r\n\r\nIn a fallen world, even the best moments are always going to have a sense of longing for something a little bit more and a little more perfect. If we have suffered in some way\u2014like you described your mom\u2014and our heart certainly goes out to her and her story to not be a victim of that loneliness. This takes great faith and courage, especially in a scenario like you've mentioned, to believe that God can redeem that emotion and that experience. \r\n\r\nI would say that it never fully goes away. I wouldn't want anybody to read this book, thinking, \u201cOh, there's a way to never be lonely again.\u201d No; but there is a way for it not to dominate us, for us not to be victims of it, for us not to obsess over it, for it to move into the background of our emotional experience. I think that is a good goal. And there's steps, through the gospel, to get there.\r\n\r\nAnn: You know who I was just thinking of?\u2014Naomi, in the Bible\u2014she loses her husband; she loses her sons; and she says, \u201cI'm bitter; I'm Mara\u201d; is that how you say it?\u2014pastors?\r\n\r\nSteve:Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: And so even with that, that loneliness must have just been seeping into her. I was going to ask you, as you were talking, Steve: \u201cDoes loneliness\/can it lead into depression?\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve:Oh, absolutely; yeah. And it's funny you bring up [the book of] Ruth. I think it's a great example; Ruth 1, [Naomi] renames herself \u201cBitter.\u201d She has no hope that there's ever a Chapter 4 coming. And yet, we have this great redemptive story, where not only is it redeemed, it leads to the redemption of all humanity. \u201cDoes Naomi have any possible thought, in Chapter 1, that God could bring good from it?\u201d\u2014probably not. And most of us live lives in Chapter 1.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nSteve:Life is lived in Chapter 1; it takes faith to believe Chapter 4 is coming\u2014and yet, the promises of God, the Word of God, the action of God through Jesus\u2014all of these are to convince us, and to help us, in Chapter 1, that Chapter 4 is coming. Only God can bring the Chapter 4s. But as a Christian, we believe that He will; and there's great hope in that.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; and when you're in Chapter 1\u2014I watched my mom do this\u2014you cope. I watched my mom numb her loneliness with alcohol; that was her cope. And I think a lot of us, if we don't understand what to do with our loneliness, we live in bitterness; and we just numb out. I don't know what all the ways are; but I watched alcohol be my mom and dad's escape: \u201cWhen I do this, I feel happy. And as soon as I'm sober, I'm back to bitter.\u201d I literally grew up in a home, where every single night, that's what my mom did. I didn't even realize she was doing it until later, but it was her way to cope with loneliness. I think a lot of people, even in the church\u2014who know some of the Scripture and what you just said: \u201cChapter 4 is a reality because of Christ,\u201d\u2014they numb out. \r\n\r\nAnn: Jennifer, how do you think women\u2014I'm thinking of ways I, as a woman, can do that\u2014you're around women, as a pastor's wife: \u201cHow do you think we cope?\u201d or \u201cWhat can we do instead of embracing, as Steve says, our loneliness?\u201d\r\n\r\nJennifer: I would say that it doesn't have to necessarily be gender-specific. But speaking, as a female, and what I've observed and maybe experienced some of these things. I think that anything that is a delight\u2014that actually, Steve's written a book\/his other book is about enjoying God through beauty [Enjoying God in Everything]. \r\n\r\nAnn: Look at your girl promoting your book on air!\r\n\r\nSteve:Cross promotion; I like it.\r\n\r\nJennifer: But he writes that God created beauty as something to be enjoyed as a foretaste of enjoying Him forever. I think it's anything that you enjoy that you take to the extreme [as a coping mechanism]. So you look for that thing or that experience to fulfill you. And again, it's misplaced because that's not how God designed it. But you can enjoy food, because it helps your body; but you can enjoy it too much. You can enjoy shopping, because you need to get things for your family; and et cetera. I think of sports; it can be relational, like putting expectations on another person to fulfill that need.\r\n\r\nAnn: Golf.\r\n\r\nJennifer: Golf.\r\n\r\nDave: I don\u2019t know why she brought that up. \r\n\r\nJennifer: It can even be status though\u2014I mean, you think of social media\u2014as you think of things that you can just kind of go down. Anything you think of that you can kind of be so distracted that you don't think about something. It can be anything taken to the extreme.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave:And a big one for men, and women, too, is porn. You can talk about it is a superficial answer to loneliness\u2014it's just so\u2014and it's rampant in the church as well as outside the church. It's a numbing to that ache that we've been talking about for three days. \r\n\r\nYou have a whole chapter on contentment. Can you find contentment when you're wrestling through this?\u2014\"I'm alone,\u201d or \u201cI'm feeling alone.\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve:Well, I saw a Facebook post that was kind of funny; it said, \u201cI can do all things through a verse taken out of context,\u201d\u2014referring to Philippians 4:13 and the oft-quoted\u2014\u201cI can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Do you ow many Detroit lions players had that pasted\u2014\r\n\r\nSteve:Oh, yeah?\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014before games? And I always want to say, \u201cGuys, it's not what it's about.\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve: Yes, \u201cLast year, it didn't work.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Yes; right.\r\n\r\nSteve:But it does apply in the category of contentment; that is, contextually, what Paul is saying. In Philippians 4, he basically says that contentment is non-circumstantial; it's non-circumstantial. We want to seek contentment in circumstances or in changing circumstances to align with the desires that we have within us. But in Philippians 4, Paul says, \u201cThe key is not changing my circumstances to meet my desires, but rather changing my desires to meet circumstances that I believe God has sovereignly and providentially placed me within.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd so now, we're kind of back on that faith theme of: \u201cDo I believe that God is good?\u201d \u201cDo I believe that God is sovereign over my life?\u201d \u201cCan I trust Him for things that I wish were different; and maybe, could be, someday, that unknown preferred future?\u201d All of these are things that\u2014again, gospelizing our loneliness is a key\u2014as I view my loneliness, through the cross and through Jesus, who\u2014the ultimate moment of loneliness was\u2014when He cried out, \u201cMy God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?\u201d The humanity of Jesus feeling separation, bearing our sin before His heavenly Father; and yet, that greatest moment of loneliness also is the key to redeeming loneliness as He dies for the guilt, and the sin, and the shame that separates us from other people and, now, brings us, through the gospel, into relationship with God the Father, and the possibility with other people. I mean, it all comes back to Jesus, and it comes back to that moment. \r\n\r\nI would say for the person, who is listening, who is dealing with chronic loneliness: \u201cWhen you pray to Jesus, He understands loneliness; He experienced the greatest loneliness.\u201d To see loneliness in the grander scheme of redemption and to understand that it's part of the fall; it's not a sin. It's also something that is being redeemed. And someday, we will never feel this way again. All of this is biblical gospel macro story of God and redemption. Finding loneliness in that story, I think, helps.\r\n\r\nAnn: It really gives you that hope of heaven. I've told you earlier: I know that there'll be no more tears or pain in heaven, or sickness; but I haven't thought of the loneliness piece. Because, as you've been saying for the last couple days, it's always with us. There's a piece of us, whether it's in the foreground or the background, there's an angst that we all feel. But to think that we won't even have that in heaven is remarkable; it gives us such hope that we won't always experience it. It will be gone. \r\n\r\nDave:So here's a question. I don't even know what you're going to say; I don't remember reading a lot in the book about gender\u2014women, men with loneliness\u2014again, I'm not saying it's totally different. But as a guy, sometimes, I can think women aren't lonely like men are; because they're always talking to each other. When you speak at places, and if it's a crowd of women, they sit right beside each other; and they're talking the whole time; and the speaker walks up. \r\n\r\nMen\u2014you walk in the room\u2014they're sitting three or four chairs apart. If you get anywhere near them, they look at you, like: \u201cWhat are you doing, dude?\u201d And then, that's definitely a reality; there's a difference there. So as men, I used to say at my church that, \u201cMen have LATS.\u201d That was my acrostic to say, \u201cEvery guy I know has LATS\u201d:\r\n\r\nL: Lonely, that was the L\r\n\r\nAnd every guy's like, \u201cOh, he's right.\u201d\r\n\r\nA: Angry\r\n\r\nT: Tired\r\n\r\nS: Spiritually-depleted. \r\n\r\nAgain, we have a lot more than that; but when you say that to men, they go\/they shake their head like, \u201cAh.\u201d And then, women are like, \u201cWhat?\u201d So I think there's a sense that guys feel like women don't feel loneliness like we do, but do they?\r\n\r\nSteve:In fact, there's been studies that say\u2014and I don't have the percentage off the top of my head\u2014but it's perhaps a majority of men who cannot name one significant friend in their life. How many people listening to this broadcast\u2014men, if we really pressed you\u2014\u201cWho would you say is a really close friend in your life?\u201d And in this way I think women naturally are more relationally-aligned and oriented and do better at this. \r\n\r\nBut there are a lot of lonely men, a lot of lonely men. And part of the gospelizing our loneliness, as men, is that we have to understand that our identity is in Jesus Christ. I think a lot of it is fear, for men, to be vulnerable with the struggles of our life\u2014who we really are\u2014we hide; we posture; we pretend. The gospel calls us to be real. And the degree to which we are authentic to who we are is the degree to which we will mitigate loneliness in our life. \r\n\r\nI would urge men: \u201cWe need to be way riskier and way more courageous in relationship building.\u201d Quick story: I met a guy at church one Sunday. I just kind of liked him, and I said, \u201cHey, let's go get coffee.\u201d We're out having coffee, and I just kind of liked him. And we get to the end of the time and I go, \u201cYou know what? I've enjoyed this. I would like to intentionally build a friendship with you.\u201d And that was a big gulp for me; that was a moment, where I was like, \u201cThis out of my comfort zone.\u201d It's sort of like women would be like, \u201cLet's be best friends.\u201d Guys\u2014we don't do that\u2014but I did it with this guy. He says to me\/he goes, \u201cI'm actually feeling the same way.\u201d And that relationship has become one of the most significant friendships in my whole life. But I had to be awkward, and I had to be vulnerable from the get-go.\r\n\r\nAnn: Okay, I'm just asking you guys: \u201cWhat is vulnerable about that?\u201d And it\u2019s risky; why is that? I mean, I just told\u2014I just met Jennifer an hour ago\u2014\u201cWe're going to be friends!\u201d \u201cWe're going to be best friends! I want to hang out with you.\u201d\r\n\r\nJennifer: And I love it.\r\n\r\nSteve: Dave hasn\u2019t said that one time to me yet. \r\n\r\nAnn: I know; why is that?\r\n\r\nDave:\u201cSteve, I was wondering: I really enjoy you,  and I was wondering if we could\u2026\u201d\u2014 my first thought is: \u201cIt feels needy: \u2018You're a needy guy.\u2019\u201d I mean, again, I'm not saying it's true or not. You write in your book about pride\u2014and to really dive into a friendship or a relationship\u2014you have to put away pride: \u201cI need people,\u201d \u201cI need you,\u201d \u201cI'm interested in a relationship with you because\u201d\u2014like you said\u2014\"I like you.\u201d \r\n\r\nI've had that with guys, too; it's like, \u201cI think I could hang out with this guy. This would be great.\u201d And then, there's a little bit of fear in me: \u201cI don't want to come across as some weirdo needy guy.\u201d A woman would be like, \u201cI like you. Can we hang out?\u201d They'd be like, \u201cYeah, let's do it!\u201d A guy\u2014there's a wall, sometimes, comes up\u2014like, \u201cOkay, I've got to be vulnerable here.\u201d And vulnerability is awesome, but it's scary.\r\n\r\nAnn: I've talked to so many women, who are saying, \u201cMy husband has no friends, and I tell my husband, \u2018You should get a friend; you should...\u2019\u201d So this is a real thing. It probably doesn't help for the wives to say, \u201cYou need a friend\u201d; but what do men do with that? You're saying, \u201cPut down the pride\u2014\r\n\r\nDave:No, ask the expert,\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah, I am.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Steve, over there. \r\n\r\nAnn: I'm asking you, Steve; I'm turning towards you: \u201cIf that's common\u2014and men are relating\u2014like, \u2018Yeah, I don't have friends\u2026\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve:Well, this is where I encourage redeeming the ache of loneliness by doing something about it. Loneliness puts a longing in our hearts. We will have a men's breakfast at church\u2014hundreds of men show up\u2014and I know many of them are kind of hoping that maybe they'll connect with somebody, because they feel relationally-distant; they're hoping for a friend. \r\n\r\nI would encourage men to be courageous: \u201cTake the energy, that loneliness provides, and do something about it.\u201d Again, a reminder: \u201cWe get rid of loneliness by giving it away.\u201d So rather than going to a men's thing, and saying, \u201cHey, maybe you can help me,\u201d\u2014go to it, and say, \u201cWhose loneliness can I help meet?\u201d\u2014that inversion of self; the dying to self; the killing of the pride is the key. As we be a friend to some other guy, that loneliness recedes. And so we give it away: \u201cGive your loneliness away.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Well, I think that's true for women though, too, because we can go into a setting, thinking, \u201cNo one's reached out to me; no one has been friendly to me. I want a mentor, but no one has asked me.\u201d You're saying this is probably true for men and women: \u201cPut yourself out there: go serve them; go love them; go.\u201d Is that what you're saying?\u2014for both?\r\n\r\nSteve:It's not having somebody in your life; it's sacrificing for somebody in your life.\r\n\r\nAnn: Right there\u2014we should write that down and put it on our fridge.\r\n\r\nSteve: That is the essence.\r\n\r\nAnn: Say it again.\r\n\r\nSteve: It's not having somebody in your life\u2014it's not adding someone to your life\u2014it's sacrificing for someone in your life. We call that friendship or a relationship, within which we are giving of ourself. But go do that; and then, try to find your loneliness. \r\n\r\nJennifer: I do think there's two things in a woman's life that can be obstacles as well. I think, specifically, we just finished the diaper season with kids. I think life circumstances can torpedo your relationships at times; and you can feel very lonely, especially during the early days of motherhood.\r\n\r\nAnn: For sure. \r\n\r\nJennifer: You don't have the energy to go out; or you really need to be there for your kids, and you can't physically do it. And so I think that is one season of heightened loneliness, particularly for women. \r\n\r\nAnd the second thing, I think that sabotages\u2014maybe, as gentlemen don't want to sound too needy\u2014but women often can be competitive. I think those are some things that can be challenging for the female, as well, in trying to work out the loneliness season.\r\n\r\nAnn: That's a good point. And what I've seen with women is that there's that season of babies, who are in the house: a woman's thinking, \u201cI don't have time to go make new friends. I can't even keep up with my husband, or my job, and all these things going on in my home.\u201d \r\n\r\nThen, I see another phase of empty nesters, where women are feeling a little lost because they had all those kids in their house\u2014or a lot of their friends have been friends that they've made through their kids\u2014and people are moving away as they're getting older. I love the picture of: \u201cIf you're an empty nester, if you would put yourself in that position of that younger woman, with babies in the house, to say, \u2018How can I serve you?\u2019 \u2018What could I do to help you, as a young mom?\u2019 the young mom would probably cry and think you're an angel. It would fill your loneliness needs.\u201d I like this whole idea of sacrificing for our loneliness.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; talk a little bit\u2014I know you, in the book, talk about authenticity and being vulnerable\u2014and how that sort of opens the door for friendship and helps us with our loneliness. Explain that a little bit.\r\n\r\nSteve:Sure; so here, we're talking about the horizontal. The vertical is through Jesus and faith in Christ. But this horizontal dimension, that is so important that God made us for socially, to be in flourishing in relationships with other human beings,  requires something that's counterintuitive to us. Pride wants to hide\u2014ever since Genesis 3\u2014we've worn clothes; we cover up; we hide in the bushes; and all of that adds and compounds loneliness. \r\n\r\nWe have to invert that by knowing who we are in Jesus Christ\u2014my identity is in Him; I'm fully accepted in Christ\u2014now, I can approach other people, not needing their approval, not needing that relationship to find my identity. So now, I'm freer to just be myself, and to be real, and to be authentic. \r\n\r\nWe were talking about Jennie Allen earlier, who's been on your program. She writes about this so well; that: \u201cMake it awkward and do that as quickly as possible. If they can't handle it, they probably weren't going to be your friend anyway.\u201d It's our weaknesses; it's our struggles that people relate to. We want to project strength\u2014we want to be our Facebook page\u2014and none of us are; we are all this very contorted version of that.\r\n\r\nBut that's the basis of real relationships most people can think of: they have friendships with people, and it was a crazy circumstance that started it: \u201cWe had to spend the night at their house at the last minute. We slept on the floor, but we've been friends ever since.\u201d It's those kinds of experiences\u2014where we're real; we're not hiding; we're authentic\u2014that are the building blocks of the relationships that end up being the most meaningful to us. So be risky in that\u2014be real; be yourself\u2014see yourself through the eyes of Christ. I think that loneliness can find its way into the background of our emotions.\r\n\r\nDave:I think I've shared this here before\u2014I don't remember\u2014but when I first moved to Detroit, didn't know anybody. Went there to be the Detroit Lions\u2019 chaplain. I was sort of on my own. We were connected with Athletes in Action, but nobody in the city. I knew I got to have men in my life; that is a non-negotiable. We need community: Ann needs women; I need men; we need couples. I didn't know anybody, so I started going to churches. Ann was pregnant; so a lot of times, I go to church by myself. \r\n\r\nLong story short: I find this group of guys at this one church. They say, \u201cHey, you want to be in our small group?\u201d \u201cYeah,\u201d \u201c\u2026meet weekly.\u201d I'm not kidding; I decided to take a risk. I didn't know Jennie Allen's quote then\u2014because she hadn't written it yet\u2014but: \u201cBe awkward early.\u201d I think the second or third week I opened\u2014I mean, we're going around the room\u2014and I said, \u201cHey guys,\u201d\u2014I bet there were eight guys; and again, I don't know them very well yet\u2014but I said, \u201cI have a confession to make. I looked at the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue this week,\u201d and \u201cI never look at that. My wife won't even let me see it, but I stumbled upon it. I'm just being honest, guys, I blew it. I'm sorry, and I just need to tell you guys.\u201d\r\n\r\nI'm not kidding, the room went, \u201cAre you kidding me?!\u201d They were mad; they were like, \u201cYou looked at that?!\u201d I'm like, \u201cYeah; I mean, just for a second.\u201d And nobody here\u2014\"No, never would we ever do anything like that!\u201d\u2014I mean, they shamed me to death. I remember I got in my car, and I said, \u201cThat's not my group!\u201d I just remember thinking, \u201cHalf of them are probably lying.\u201d And again, I don't know\u2014maybe, they're that righteous\u2014but I just remember thinking, \u201cThis is not going to be a group where you can be honest.\u201d\r\n\r\nI thought, \u201cI got to find other guys\u201d; and I did. I've been with those other guys for over \r\n\r\n30 years; they're brothers. And that authenticity and vulnerability, we need that. I didn't ever connect loneliness to that; but that was all part of what was going on in my soul, your soul, all of our souls. God meets that need in us, vertically, and that's all we need; but He says, \u201cNo, you actually need people, too\u201d; it's the vertical and horizontal. \r\n\r\nSo man, what you've been sharing the last three days, this is powerful.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014and practical. Thanks, both of you, Jennifer and Steve. We all are represented by RK Media, so we want to give a shout out to Roger and Lori Kemp. They're pretty remarkable\u2014and we're praying for you, again, Lori\u2014and also their team: Danny, Allen, Julian, and all of you. We love you guys.\r\n\r\nShelby: I'm Shelby Abbott; and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Steve and Jennifer DeWitt on FamilyLife Today. Steve has written a book called Loneliness: Don't Hate It or Waste It. Redeem It. What a great title, huh? This book really resonates with anybody who might be wrestling with feelings of loneliness, whether you're married, or single, or in leadership. It's a book that really helps you seek biblical insight and practical guidance for transforming your feelings of isolation into meaningful connection with both God and others. You can get your copy of Steve's book by going online, right now, to FamilyLifeToday.com or clicking on the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word TODAY.\r\n\r\nWith all the gift-giving this time of year, I've been thinking about what it really means to give a meaningful gift. It's not just about what's wrapped up. It's really about experiences; it can be about experiences and those moments that last forever, because they exist in our memory. That's why I wanted to remind you about FamilyLife's \r\n\r\n50 percent off Weekend to Remember\u00ae gift cards and 20 percent off devotionals. So whether you or your spouse could use some intentional time to reconnect with one another, or you know a couple who would benefit from connecting with one another, this is the perfect opportunity\/the perfect gift to give. You can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the Black Friday sale banner; because all of our devotionals are 20 percent off, and all of our Weekend to Remember gift cards are \r\n\r\n50 percent off. Again, head over to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Black Friday sale banner. \r\n\r\nNow, coming up tomorrow, I'm excited to say that Dave and Ann Wilson are going to be joined by Jackie Hill Perry; she's always interesting to listen to. Tomorrow, she's going to talk about her new devotional and, really, how many devotionals out there, that exist right now, are pretty superficial. She'll point us to Jesus and do that with style. I'm excited to hear her, and I hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com                                 \r\n\r\n\n"],"_edit_lock":["1732116700:47000"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-310441.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-310441.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{max-width: 100%;width: 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";s:10:\"1776600200\";s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/11\/image_e7b8b8.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"When coping with loneliness, not all strategies are equal. Loneliness is a natural part of life, but Steve and Jennifer DeWitt argue it can be redeemed.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Steve DeWitt and hear more of his thoughts on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/steve.dewitt.925\/\">Facebook<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>You can grab your copy of Steve & Jennifer's new book, \"Loneliness: Don't Hate it or Waste it. Redeem it\" <a href=\"https:\/\/www.moodypublishers.com\/loneliness\">here<\/a>\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>Don't miss out on FamilyLife's amazing Black Friday sale: Weekend to Remember gift cards are half off and devotionals are discounted from Nov. 18 to Dec. 2 at <a href=\"http:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>!<br \/>\n<hr>\n<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-11-20.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nLoneliness in the Bible\r\n\r\nGuests:Steve and Jennifer DeWitt\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Loneliness: Don\u2019t Hate It or Waste It (Day 3 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:November 20, 2024\r\n\r\nShelby: Hey, Shelby Abbott here. Many of us are just tired of the tension and the division that exists in our natural circles of influence: amongst our friends; and our extended family members; and maybe, even around our own kitchen table. Well, how do we do that? How are we supposed to love people and create unity when we live in a culture that's easily-angered and often-offended? It could feel like it's just impossible to dwell in unity with one another. \r\n\r\nWell, that's why I'm excited to invite you to join us, here at FamilyLife, for a five-week video series from our friend\u2014author, and comedian\u2014Amberly Neese. It's called \u201cMoving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World.\u201d And man, that is accurate; isn't it? We are living in a divisive world, and we need to move toward one another. In this five-week series, Amberly guides us on how to build peace in our own backyards when differing thoughts, and opinions, and beliefs threaten to create division. You could sign up, right now, by clicking on the link in the show notes; or you can go to FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround; that's FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround. Or you could click on the link in the show notes. \r\n\r\nAlright, let's hop into today's program.\r\n\r\nSteve:We get rid of loneliness by giving it away: \u201cWhose loneliness can I help meet?\u201d And that inversion of self\u2014the dying to self, the killing of the pride\u2014is the key: \u201cGive your loneliness away.\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\nDave:I would say one of the loneliest people I ever knew was my mom. What do you think?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave:You didn't know I was going there.\r\n\r\nAnn: No, for sure!\r\n\r\nDave:Mom and Dad divorced when I was seven\u2014lost my little brother when he was five, within the next three months of that\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah, after the divorce.\r\n\r\nDave:I mean, she was a wonderful, incredible lady; but there was an ache that we all felt in her life. You knew that.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah; I think that\u2014and we've had friends; I lost my sister\u2014so I watched my sister's husband raise four boys. I'm thinking\u2014death of a spouse; I'm thinking widows; of death of a child\u2014there's just an ache. There's a piece of loneliness that I don't think a lot of us know how to deal with that and what to do with it.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; we've been talking the last couple of days with Steve DeWitt. Jennifer's with him, back in the studio, about loneliness. You wrote a book about it; but I mean, you've thought about this a lot. So even when you hear us talk about my mom, and people that experienced loneliness, all I have in my head right now, Steve, is what you've said the last two days. It\u2019s like, \u201cWell, God can redeem that. God can actually meet us in that; it isn't the worst thing in the world. It is dark and it is hard.\u201d But am I right? You've got me thinking about loneliness totally different.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nAnn: Me, too.\r\n\r\nDave:You really do; and you're smiling, like, \u201cThat's what I was hoping\u201d; right?\r\n\r\nSteve:That's the mission. Yeah, absolutely; \u201cLet's turn this inside out and see some good purposes in it.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Well, yesterday was fun; Jennifer, you came into the studio with Steve. You guys have two girls. We heard all about your proposal because, Steve, you were a single pastor of a mega church; and then, you got married to Jennifer at 44 years old.\r\n\r\nDave:Then, the ring came down from heaven; and people are like, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d \r\n\r\nSteve: I wish it came down from heaven; I had to pay for it.\r\n\r\nDave: It, literally, came down.\r\n\r\nAnn: So go back and listen to the last two days; because this is a topic that we all face and feel, and we don't always know what to do with it. But you've done a really good job of helping us see it in a different light.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; so talk to\u2014we mentioned my mom; and there are many people like that, they've lost the spouse\u2014for my mom, lost a spouse and a son; and Ann\u2019s lost her sister\u2014I mean, we've been there. I think a lot of our listeners, at some point, have either personally experienced it or know someone. It feels like the worst feeling in your life: \u201cIt's never going to go away,\u201d and \u201cI can't ever really get over it.\u201d I've met people who have lost a spouse or a child, and they never\u2014it\u2019s in your book\u2014\u201cDon't hate it or waste it; redeem it.\u201d They don't ever get to redemption, so how would you help them?\r\n\r\nSteve:Well, I would, first of all, begin from a point of deep compassion. And I would like to say that about anybody who\u2019s experiencing loneliness for whatever reason, I think we need to have great sympathy for the visceral, ongoing-experience of loneliness. Dave, I think you're right, the loneliness tries to convince us that: \u201cIt will always be this way, that this will never change. There's nothing we can do, and this is our plight.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd that is not true. It's not true biblically; it's not true eschatologically, in terms of God's plan for us in the future. But there are many things that we can do to mitigate loneliness and to redeem it. I\u2019ve talked already, at length, about it. But I would say\u2014for those who are in a marriage, where loneliness is chronically with them, or maybe they've lost a spouse or a loved one\u2014to, again, understand why we feel this way: \u201cWe feel this way because God designed us, as image bearers, to harmonize with Him vertically and with others horizontally.\r\n\r\nIn a fallen world, even the best moments are always going to have a sense of longing for something a little bit more and a little more perfect. If we have suffered in some way\u2014like you described your mom\u2014and our heart certainly goes out to her and her story to not be a victim of that loneliness. This takes great faith and courage, especially in a scenario like you've mentioned, to believe that God can redeem that emotion and that experience. \r\n\r\nI would say that it never fully goes away. I wouldn't want anybody to read this book, thinking, \u201cOh, there's a way to never be lonely again.\u201d No; but there is a way for it not to dominate us, for us not to be victims of it, for us not to obsess over it, for it to move into the background of our emotional experience. I think that is a good goal. And there's steps, through the gospel, to get there.\r\n\r\nAnn: You know who I was just thinking of?\u2014Naomi, in the Bible\u2014she loses her husband; she loses her sons; and she says, \u201cI'm bitter; I'm Mara\u201d; is that how you say it?\u2014pastors?\r\n\r\nSteve:Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: And so even with that, that loneliness must have just been seeping into her. I was going to ask you, as you were talking, Steve: \u201cDoes loneliness\/can it lead into depression?\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve:Oh, absolutely; yeah. And it's funny you bring up [the book of] Ruth. I think it's a great example; Ruth 1, [Naomi] renames herself \u201cBitter.\u201d She has no hope that there's ever a Chapter 4 coming. And yet, we have this great redemptive story, where not only is it redeemed, it leads to the redemption of all humanity. \u201cDoes Naomi have any possible thought, in Chapter 1, that God could bring good from it?\u201d\u2014probably not. And most of us live lives in Chapter 1.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nSteve:Life is lived in Chapter 1; it takes faith to believe Chapter 4 is coming\u2014and yet, the promises of God, the Word of God, the action of God through Jesus\u2014all of these are to convince us, and to help us, in Chapter 1, that Chapter 4 is coming. Only God can bring the Chapter 4s. But as a Christian, we believe that He will; and there's great hope in that.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; and when you're in Chapter 1\u2014I watched my mom do this\u2014you cope. I watched my mom numb her loneliness with alcohol; that was her cope. And I think a lot of us, if we don't understand what to do with our loneliness, we live in bitterness; and we just numb out. I don't know what all the ways are; but I watched alcohol be my mom and dad's escape: \u201cWhen I do this, I feel happy. And as soon as I'm sober, I'm back to bitter.\u201d I literally grew up in a home, where every single night, that's what my mom did. I didn't even realize she was doing it until later, but it was her way to cope with loneliness. I think a lot of people, even in the church\u2014who know some of the Scripture and what you just said: \u201cChapter 4 is a reality because of Christ,\u201d\u2014they numb out. \r\n\r\nAnn: Jennifer, how do you think women\u2014I'm thinking of ways I, as a woman, can do that\u2014you're around women, as a pastor's wife: \u201cHow do you think we cope?\u201d or \u201cWhat can we do instead of embracing, as Steve says, our loneliness?\u201d\r\n\r\nJennifer: I would say that it doesn't have to necessarily be gender-specific. But speaking, as a female, and what I've observed and maybe experienced some of these things. I think that anything that is a delight\u2014that actually, Steve's written a book\/his other book is about enjoying God through beauty [Enjoying God in Everything]. \r\n\r\nAnn: Look at your girl promoting your book on air!\r\n\r\nSteve:Cross promotion; I like it.\r\n\r\nJennifer: But he writes that God created beauty as something to be enjoyed as a foretaste of enjoying Him forever. I think it's anything that you enjoy that you take to the extreme [as a coping mechanism]. So you look for that thing or that experience to fulfill you. And again, it's misplaced because that's not how God designed it. But you can enjoy food, because it helps your body; but you can enjoy it too much. You can enjoy shopping, because you need to get things for your family; and et cetera. I think of sports; it can be relational, like putting expectations on another person to fulfill that need.\r\n\r\nAnn: Golf.\r\n\r\nJennifer: Golf.\r\n\r\nDave: I don\u2019t know why she brought that up. \r\n\r\nJennifer: It can even be status though\u2014I mean, you think of social media\u2014as you think of things that you can just kind of go down. Anything you think of that you can kind of be so distracted that you don't think about something. It can be anything taken to the extreme.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave:And a big one for men, and women, too, is porn. You can talk about it is a superficial answer to loneliness\u2014it's just so\u2014and it's rampant in the church as well as outside the church. It's a numbing to that ache that we've been talking about for three days. \r\n\r\nYou have a whole chapter on contentment. Can you find contentment when you're wrestling through this?\u2014\"I'm alone,\u201d or \u201cI'm feeling alone.\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve:Well, I saw a Facebook post that was kind of funny; it said, \u201cI can do all things through a verse taken out of context,\u201d\u2014referring to Philippians 4:13 and the oft-quoted\u2014\u201cI can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Do you ow many Detroit lions players had that pasted\u2014\r\n\r\nSteve:Oh, yeah?\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014before games? And I always want to say, \u201cGuys, it's not what it's about.\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve: Yes, \u201cLast year, it didn't work.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Yes; right.\r\n\r\nSteve:But it does apply in the category of contentment; that is, contextually, what Paul is saying. In Philippians 4, he basically says that contentment is non-circumstantial; it's non-circumstantial. We want to seek contentment in circumstances or in changing circumstances to align with the desires that we have within us. But in Philippians 4, Paul says, \u201cThe key is not changing my circumstances to meet my desires, but rather changing my desires to meet circumstances that I believe God has sovereignly and providentially placed me within.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd so now, we're kind of back on that faith theme of: \u201cDo I believe that God is good?\u201d \u201cDo I believe that God is sovereign over my life?\u201d \u201cCan I trust Him for things that I wish were different; and maybe, could be, someday, that unknown preferred future?\u201d All of these are things that\u2014again, gospelizing our loneliness is a key\u2014as I view my loneliness, through the cross and through Jesus, who\u2014the ultimate moment of loneliness was\u2014when He cried out, \u201cMy God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?\u201d The humanity of Jesus feeling separation, bearing our sin before His heavenly Father; and yet, that greatest moment of loneliness also is the key to redeeming loneliness as He dies for the guilt, and the sin, and the shame that separates us from other people and, now, brings us, through the gospel, into relationship with God the Father, and the possibility with other people. I mean, it all comes back to Jesus, and it comes back to that moment. \r\n\r\nI would say for the person, who is listening, who is dealing with chronic loneliness: \u201cWhen you pray to Jesus, He understands loneliness; He experienced the greatest loneliness.\u201d To see loneliness in the grander scheme of redemption and to understand that it's part of the fall; it's not a sin. It's also something that is being redeemed. And someday, we will never feel this way again. All of this is biblical gospel macro story of God and redemption. Finding loneliness in that story, I think, helps.\r\n\r\nAnn: It really gives you that hope of heaven. I've told you earlier: I know that there'll be no more tears or pain in heaven, or sickness; but I haven't thought of the loneliness piece. Because, as you've been saying for the last couple days, it's always with us. There's a piece of us, whether it's in the foreground or the background, there's an angst that we all feel. But to think that we won't even have that in heaven is remarkable; it gives us such hope that we won't always experience it. It will be gone. \r\n\r\nDave:So here's a question. I don't even know what you're going to say; I don't remember reading a lot in the book about gender\u2014women, men with loneliness\u2014again, I'm not saying it's totally different. But as a guy, sometimes, I can think women aren't lonely like men are; because they're always talking to each other. When you speak at places, and if it's a crowd of women, they sit right beside each other; and they're talking the whole time; and the speaker walks up. \r\n\r\nMen\u2014you walk in the room\u2014they're sitting three or four chairs apart. If you get anywhere near them, they look at you, like: \u201cWhat are you doing, dude?\u201d And then, that's definitely a reality; there's a difference there. So as men, I used to say at my church that, \u201cMen have LATS.\u201d That was my acrostic to say, \u201cEvery guy I know has LATS\u201d:\r\n\r\nL: Lonely, that was the L\r\n\r\nAnd every guy's like, \u201cOh, he's right.\u201d\r\n\r\nA: Angry\r\n\r\nT: Tired\r\n\r\nS: Spiritually-depleted. \r\n\r\nAgain, we have a lot more than that; but when you say that to men, they go\/they shake their head like, \u201cAh.\u201d And then, women are like, \u201cWhat?\u201d So I think there's a sense that guys feel like women don't feel loneliness like we do, but do they?\r\n\r\nSteve:In fact, there's been studies that say\u2014and I don't have the percentage off the top of my head\u2014but it's perhaps a majority of men who cannot name one significant friend in their life. How many people listening to this broadcast\u2014men, if we really pressed you\u2014\u201cWho would you say is a really close friend in your life?\u201d And in this way I think women naturally are more relationally-aligned and oriented and do better at this. \r\n\r\nBut there are a lot of lonely men, a lot of lonely men. And part of the gospelizing our loneliness, as men, is that we have to understand that our identity is in Jesus Christ. I think a lot of it is fear, for men, to be vulnerable with the struggles of our life\u2014who we really are\u2014we hide; we posture; we pretend. The gospel calls us to be real. And the degree to which we are authentic to who we are is the degree to which we will mitigate loneliness in our life. \r\n\r\nI would urge men: \u201cWe need to be way riskier and way more courageous in relationship building.\u201d Quick story: I met a guy at church one Sunday. I just kind of liked him, and I said, \u201cHey, let's go get coffee.\u201d We're out having coffee, and I just kind of liked him. And we get to the end of the time and I go, \u201cYou know what? I've enjoyed this. I would like to intentionally build a friendship with you.\u201d And that was a big gulp for me; that was a moment, where I was like, \u201cThis out of my comfort zone.\u201d It's sort of like women would be like, \u201cLet's be best friends.\u201d Guys\u2014we don't do that\u2014but I did it with this guy. He says to me\/he goes, \u201cI'm actually feeling the same way.\u201d And that relationship has become one of the most significant friendships in my whole life. But I had to be awkward, and I had to be vulnerable from the get-go.\r\n\r\nAnn: Okay, I'm just asking you guys: \u201cWhat is vulnerable about that?\u201d And it\u2019s risky; why is that? I mean, I just told\u2014I just met Jennifer an hour ago\u2014\u201cWe're going to be friends!\u201d \u201cWe're going to be best friends! I want to hang out with you.\u201d\r\n\r\nJennifer: And I love it.\r\n\r\nSteve: Dave hasn\u2019t said that one time to me yet. \r\n\r\nAnn: I know; why is that?\r\n\r\nDave:\u201cSteve, I was wondering: I really enjoy you,  and I was wondering if we could\u2026\u201d\u2014 my first thought is: \u201cIt feels needy: \u2018You're a needy guy.\u2019\u201d I mean, again, I'm not saying it's true or not. You write in your book about pride\u2014and to really dive into a friendship or a relationship\u2014you have to put away pride: \u201cI need people,\u201d \u201cI need you,\u201d \u201cI'm interested in a relationship with you because\u201d\u2014like you said\u2014\"I like you.\u201d \r\n\r\nI've had that with guys, too; it's like, \u201cI think I could hang out with this guy. This would be great.\u201d And then, there's a little bit of fear in me: \u201cI don't want to come across as some weirdo needy guy.\u201d A woman would be like, \u201cI like you. Can we hang out?\u201d They'd be like, \u201cYeah, let's do it!\u201d A guy\u2014there's a wall, sometimes, comes up\u2014like, \u201cOkay, I've got to be vulnerable here.\u201d And vulnerability is awesome, but it's scary.\r\n\r\nAnn: I've talked to so many women, who are saying, \u201cMy husband has no friends, and I tell my husband, \u2018You should get a friend; you should...\u2019\u201d So this is a real thing. It probably doesn't help for the wives to say, \u201cYou need a friend\u201d; but what do men do with that? You're saying, \u201cPut down the pride\u2014\r\n\r\nDave:No, ask the expert,\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Yeah, I am.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Steve, over there. \r\n\r\nAnn: I'm asking you, Steve; I'm turning towards you: \u201cIf that's common\u2014and men are relating\u2014like, \u2018Yeah, I don't have friends\u2026\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nSteve:Well, this is where I encourage redeeming the ache of loneliness by doing something about it. Loneliness puts a longing in our hearts. We will have a men's breakfast at church\u2014hundreds of men show up\u2014and I know many of them are kind of hoping that maybe they'll connect with somebody, because they feel relationally-distant; they're hoping for a friend. \r\n\r\nI would encourage men to be courageous: \u201cTake the energy, that loneliness provides, and do something about it.\u201d Again, a reminder: \u201cWe get rid of loneliness by giving it away.\u201d So rather than going to a men's thing, and saying, \u201cHey, maybe you can help me,\u201d\u2014go to it, and say, \u201cWhose loneliness can I help meet?\u201d\u2014that inversion of self; the dying to self; the killing of the pride is the key. As we be a friend to some other guy, that loneliness recedes. And so we give it away: \u201cGive your loneliness away.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Well, I think that's true for women though, too, because we can go into a setting, thinking, \u201cNo one's reached out to me; no one has been friendly to me. I want a mentor, but no one has asked me.\u201d You're saying this is probably true for men and women: \u201cPut yourself out there: go serve them; go love them; go.\u201d Is that what you're saying?\u2014for both?\r\n\r\nSteve:It's not having somebody in your life; it's sacrificing for somebody in your life.\r\n\r\nAnn: Right there\u2014we should write that down and put it on our fridge.\r\n\r\nSteve: That is the essence.\r\n\r\nAnn: Say it again.\r\n\r\nSteve: It's not having somebody in your life\u2014it's not adding someone to your life\u2014it's sacrificing for someone in your life. We call that friendship or a relationship, within which we are giving of ourself. But go do that; and then, try to find your loneliness. \r\n\r\nJennifer: I do think there's two things in a woman's life that can be obstacles as well. I think, specifically, we just finished the diaper season with kids. I think life circumstances can torpedo your relationships at times; and you can feel very lonely, especially during the early days of motherhood.\r\n\r\nAnn: For sure. \r\n\r\nJennifer: You don't have the energy to go out; or you really need to be there for your kids, and you can't physically do it. And so I think that is one season of heightened loneliness, particularly for women. \r\n\r\nAnd the second thing, I think that sabotages\u2014maybe, as gentlemen don't want to sound too needy\u2014but women often can be competitive. I think those are some things that can be challenging for the female, as well, in trying to work out the loneliness season.\r\n\r\nAnn: That's a good point. And what I've seen with women is that there's that season of babies, who are in the house: a woman's thinking, \u201cI don't have time to go make new friends. I can't even keep up with my husband, or my job, and all these things going on in my home.\u201d \r\n\r\nThen, I see another phase of empty nesters, where women are feeling a little lost because they had all those kids in their house\u2014or a lot of their friends have been friends that they've made through their kids\u2014and people are moving away as they're getting older. I love the picture of: \u201cIf you're an empty nester, if you would put yourself in that position of that younger woman, with babies in the house, to say, \u2018How can I serve you?\u2019 \u2018What could I do to help you, as a young mom?\u2019 the young mom would probably cry and think you're an angel. It would fill your loneliness needs.\u201d I like this whole idea of sacrificing for our loneliness.\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah; talk a little bit\u2014I know you, in the book, talk about authenticity and being vulnerable\u2014and how that sort of opens the door for friendship and helps us with our loneliness. Explain that a little bit.\r\n\r\nSteve:Sure; so here, we're talking about the horizontal. The vertical is through Jesus and faith in Christ. But this horizontal dimension, that is so important that God made us for socially, to be in flourishing in relationships with other human beings,  requires something that's counterintuitive to us. Pride wants to hide\u2014ever since Genesis 3\u2014we've worn clothes; we cover up; we hide in the bushes; and all of that adds and compounds loneliness. \r\n\r\nWe have to invert that by knowing who we are in Jesus Christ\u2014my identity is in Him; I'm fully accepted in Christ\u2014now, I can approach other people, not needing their approval, not needing that relationship to find my identity. So now, I'm freer to just be myself, and to be real, and to be authentic. \r\n\r\nWe were talking about Jennie Allen earlier, who's been on your program. She writes about this so well; that: \u201cMake it awkward and do that as quickly as possible. If they can't handle it, they probably weren't going to be your friend anyway.\u201d It's our weaknesses; it's our struggles that people relate to. We want to project strength\u2014we want to be our Facebook page\u2014and none of us are; we are all this very contorted version of that.\r\n\r\nBut that's the basis of real relationships most people can think of: they have friendships with people, and it was a crazy circumstance that started it: \u201cWe had to spend the night at their house at the last minute. We slept on the floor, but we've been friends ever since.\u201d It's those kinds of experiences\u2014where we're real; we're not hiding; we're authentic\u2014that are the building blocks of the relationships that end up being the most meaningful to us. So be risky in that\u2014be real; be yourself\u2014see yourself through the eyes of Christ. I think that loneliness can find its way into the background of our emotions.\r\n\r\nDave:I think I've shared this here before\u2014I don't remember\u2014but when I first moved to Detroit, didn't know anybody. Went there to be the Detroit Lions\u2019 chaplain. I was sort of on my own. We were connected with Athletes in Action, but nobody in the city. I knew I got to have men in my life; that is a non-negotiable. We need community: Ann needs women; I need men; we need couples. I didn't know anybody, so I started going to churches. Ann was pregnant; so a lot of times, I go to church by myself. \r\n\r\nLong story short: I find this group of guys at this one church. They say, \u201cHey, you want to be in our small group?\u201d \u201cYeah,\u201d \u201c\u2026meet weekly.\u201d I'm not kidding; I decided to take a risk. I didn't know Jennie Allen's quote then\u2014because she hadn't written it yet\u2014but: \u201cBe awkward early.\u201d I think the second or third week I opened\u2014I mean, we're going around the room\u2014and I said, \u201cHey guys,\u201d\u2014I bet there were eight guys; and again, I don't know them very well yet\u2014but I said, \u201cI have a confession to make. I looked at the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue this week,\u201d and \u201cI never look at that. My wife won't even let me see it, but I stumbled upon it. I'm just being honest, guys, I blew it. I'm sorry, and I just need to tell you guys.\u201d\r\n\r\nI'm not kidding, the room went, \u201cAre you kidding me?!\u201d They were mad; they were like, \u201cYou looked at that?!\u201d I'm like, \u201cYeah; I mean, just for a second.\u201d And nobody here\u2014\"No, never would we ever do anything like that!\u201d\u2014I mean, they shamed me to death. I remember I got in my car, and I said, \u201cThat's not my group!\u201d I just remember thinking, \u201cHalf of them are probably lying.\u201d And again, I don't know\u2014maybe, they're that righteous\u2014but I just remember thinking, \u201cThis is not going to be a group where you can be honest.\u201d\r\n\r\nI thought, \u201cI got to find other guys\u201d; and I did. I've been with those other guys for over \r\n\r\n30 years; they're brothers. And that authenticity and vulnerability, we need that. I didn't ever connect loneliness to that; but that was all part of what was going on in my soul, your soul, all of our souls. God meets that need in us, vertically, and that's all we need; but He says, \u201cNo, you actually need people, too\u201d; it's the vertical and horizontal. \r\n\r\nSo man, what you've been sharing the last three days, this is powerful.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014and practical. Thanks, both of you, Jennifer and Steve. We all are represented by RK Media, so we want to give a shout out to Roger and Lori Kemp. They're pretty remarkable\u2014and we're praying for you, again, Lori\u2014and also their team: Danny, Allen, Julian, and all of you. We love you guys.\r\n\r\nShelby: I'm Shelby Abbott; and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Steve and Jennifer DeWitt on FamilyLife Today. Steve has written a book called Loneliness: Don't Hate It or Waste It. Redeem It. What a great title, huh? This book really resonates with anybody who might be wrestling with feelings of loneliness, whether you're married, or single, or in leadership. It's a book that really helps you seek biblical insight and practical guidance for transforming your feelings of isolation into meaningful connection with both God and others. You can get your copy of Steve's book by going online, right now, to FamilyLifeToday.com or clicking on the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word TODAY.\r\n\r\nWith all the gift-giving this time of year, I've been thinking about what it really means to give a meaningful gift. It's not just about what's wrapped up. It's really about experiences; it can be about experiences and those moments that last forever, because they exist in our memory. That's why I wanted to remind you about FamilyLife's \r\n\r\n50 percent off Weekend to Remember\u00ae gift cards and 20 percent off devotionals. So whether you or your spouse could use some intentional time to reconnect with one another, or you know a couple who would benefit from connecting with one another, this is the perfect opportunity\/the perfect gift to give. You can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the Black Friday sale banner; because all of our devotionals are 20 percent off, and all of our Weekend to Remember gift cards are \r\n\r\n50 percent off. Again, head over to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Black Friday sale banner. \r\n\r\nNow, coming up tomorrow, I'm excited to say that Dave and Ann Wilson are going to be joined by Jackie Hill Perry; she's always interesting to listen to. Tomorrow, she's going to talk about her new devotional and, really, how many devotionals out there, that exist right now, are pretty superficial. She'll point us to Jesus and do that with style. I'm excited to hear her, and I hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com                                 \r\n\r\n\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/310441","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=310441"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/310318"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=310441"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=310441"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=310441"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=310441"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=310441"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=310441"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}