{"id":309870,"date":"2024-11-06T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-11-06T08:35:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/family-conflict-in-the-time-of-cancel-culture-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell\/"},"modified":"2024-11-19T04:14:33","modified_gmt":"2024-11-19T09:14:33","slug":"family-conflict-in-the-time-of-cancel-culture-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/family-conflict-in-the-time-of-cancel-culture-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell\/","title":{"rendered":"Family Conflict in the Time of Cancel Culture: Tim Muehlhoff &#038; Sean McDowell"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Do disagreements with family strain relationship at times? Learn to approach family conflict with wisdom and winsomeness in this conversation between Dave and Ann Wilson and Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Do disagreements with family strain relationship at times? Learn to approach family conflict with wisdom and winsomeness with Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":309871,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/c3d94550-068f-41fd-8f3b-b21201129f37\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:35","filesize":"26.22M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2934],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[10882],"cwp_profile":[9849,3245],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-309870","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-relationships","podcast_series-end-the-stalemate-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell","cwp_profile-dr-sean-mcdowell","cwp_profile-tim-muehlhoff","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/11\/image_c255dc.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/309870\/family-conflict-in-the-time-of-cancel-culture-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/309870\/family-conflict-in-the-time-of-cancel-culture-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"6EIEE41Z91\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/family-conflict-in-the-time-of-cancel-culture-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell\/\">Family Conflict in the Time of Cancel Culture: Tim Muehlhoff &#038; Sean McDowell<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/family-conflict-in-the-time-of-cancel-culture-tim-muehlhoff-sean-mcdowell\/embed\/#?secret=6EIEE41Z91\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Family Conflict in the Time of Cancel Culture: Tim Muehlhoff &#038; Sean McDowell&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"6EIEE41Z91\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["c3d94550-068f-41fd-8f3b-b21201129f37"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/c3d94550-068f-41fd-8f3b-b21201129f37\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:28:35"],"filesize":["26.22M"],"_thumbnail_id":["309871"],"show_notes":["\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Tim Muehlhoff and catch more of their thoughts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biola.edu\/blogs\/winsome-conviction\">Winsome Conviction Project<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find previous podcast episodes and articles with Tim <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/profiles\/tim-muehlhoff\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Connect with Sean McDowell and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/seanmcdowell.org\/\">seanmcdowell.org<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find more podcast episodes with Sean <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/profiles\/dr-sean-mcdowell\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>You find find their book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/end-the-stalemate-move-past-cancel-culture-to-meaningful-conversations\/\">End the Stalemate: Moving Past Cancel Culture to Meaningful Conversations<\/a>,\" in our shop!<\/li>\n<li>FamilyLife has a free devotional for you from Amberly Neese: \"Finding Common Ground.\" Sign up at <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/content-offers\/finding-common-ground\/\">familylife.com\/findingcommonground<\/a><br \/>\n<hr>\n<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-11-06.pdf"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nFamily Conflict in the Time of Cancel Culture\r\n\r\nGuests:Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell\r\n\r\nFrom the series:End the Stalemate (Day 3 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:November 6, 2024\r\n\r\nTim: We've got to start to be charitable and be able to talk in favorable ways about people we disagree with. We are spectacularly failing, and we're going to have to have courage to start calling people out.\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife\u2014 \r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Today.\r\n\r\nDave:So we got Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell back in the studio, talking about  End the Stalemate, having meaningful conversations with people that we have different opinions with. And again, you can look them up; their bios are long and weighty.\r\n\r\nAnn: They're both professors and doctors.\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014doctors; they teach students every single day. \r\n\r\nTim: We need to come here more often, Sean.\r\n\r\nSean:Oh man, I'm feeling the love. \r\n\r\nTim: This is awesome; I love this.\r\n\r\nDave:We don't get to say this every day about our guests. Man, oh man; I feel like we're in the presence of royalty. And again,\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014and they both have great podcasts, too.\r\n\r\nDave: Yeah; tell us the names of your podcasts.\r\n\r\nTim: Mine is called Tim Muehlhoff Can Change Your Life podcast. \r\n\r\nDave: Yeah, that's it!\r\n\r\nTim: We have two listeners, my wife\u2014no.\r\n\r\nDave: Your wife's not listening; she's not one of them. \r\n\r\nTim: No, it's called Winsome Conviction podcast. We bring on people we know disagree with each other, and we try to model what it's like to have good engaging conversations.\r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s good.\r\n\r\nSean:Think Biblically, with my co-host, Scott Rae. We want to think, biblically, about every issue under the sun.\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014amazing, amazing teacher.\r\n\r\nSean:Yes, he is; still is.\r\n\r\nDave:I took Hebrew from him. I never thought I'd want to think like he\u2014and J.P. Moreland\u2014made me just realize how thinking is so, so important. Okay,\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: I think, too\u2014let me add this\u2014\u201cIf you're a parent, with young adults or even high school students, listening to either of your podcasts would be really beneficial. One that you could say, \u2018Hey, I just listened to this. I'd love to get your thoughts on this.\u2019\u201d It's like a bridge of conversation that can take place because you guys both do a really good job.\r\n\r\nTim: And Ann, I would add to what you said\u2014I think this was yesterday\u2014\u201cAsk your children what podcasts they listen to and start listening to them, or trade songs:\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nTim: \u2014\u201c\u2019What are the songs that you really resonate with?\u2019\u201d One child, particularly, we trade songs all the time; what a glimpse into the world!\r\n\r\nDave:Well, we're talking about your book, End the Stalemate: Move Past Cancel Culture to Meaningful Conversations\u2014which is really interesting is\u2014you guys don't agree on everything,\u2014\r\n\r\nTim: No.\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014and you wrote a book together!\r\n\r\nTim: We did.\r\n\r\nDave:It's like, \u201cNo, no, no; that can't be possible. You do not agree on everything.\u201d \r\n\r\nI got an email from you about the endorsement: about an area that you guys didn't agree on, like, \u201cDo you guys want to take your endorsement back?\u201d I love the thought that, \u201cOh, my goodness, you're modeling ending the stalemate.\u201d \r\n\r\nWe've already talked about pre-conversation. We need to talk about: \u201cOkay, when we're in the conversation, how do we have this?\u201d We have kids coming home from college this month. The election just happened; your person might not have got elected. That could cause\u2014or they might have; I don't know\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Your kids may not want to come home for Christmas or Thanksgiving because of the political climate in your house. And so we're navigating that, as parents: \u201cWhat's the best way to go about these conversations?\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: \u201cHow do we have healthy conversations?\u201d\r\n\r\nSean:So here's a question for you: \u201cIf you're worried about your kids coming home this Thanksgiving, do you want them coming back home in five Thanksgivings? Do you want them coming back in 20 Thanksgivings, with your grandkids?\u201d You've got to play the long game when it comes to communication. And if they're afraid to come home, now, they could cut ties; and things could go south for a long time. \r\n\r\nWe talked, in our first discussion, Tim raised a point where, sometimes, you cannot prepare when somebody just drops a comment; you're like, \u201cOh, how do I respond?!\u201d\u2014you're emotionally-engaged. Kids coming home for Thanksgiving: you can prepare your heart, and you can prepare your mind. One thing I heard Kara Powell, at Fuller Theological Seminary, say she asks her kids all the time; she says, \u201cTell me what you believe that mom and dad still believe. Tell me something that you now don't believe that we believe, and why.\u201d And just listen\u2014don't get defensive\u2014try to understand. That's a powerful thing to do, in the right time and the right way, with your kids.\r\n\r\nDave:And don't correct them when they say, \u201cI don't believe this anymore.\u201d You don't try and convince them; you just listen.\r\n\r\nSean:At least, not initially. Step number one is: \u201cUnderstand.\u201d But I also want to know the backstory: \u201cWhat led to you changing this? Was there an experience that you had?\u201d\r\n\r\nTim's got a great chapter on \u201cBriccolage,\u201d which is how we put together our belief systems. We'd all like to think that they're lined up by analyzing evidence and looking at the data\u2014that's not true\u2014it's relationships; it's experiences; it's hurts. So \u201cIf you've changed your views,\u201d\u2014could it be, for some kids, they just want to have their identity at something that's different from their parents? I remember telling a kid, who left his faith; and after I figured out for a while, I was like, \u201cOh, my goodness, your parents have controlled everything in your life\u201d; but they couldn't control what he believed, so that was his way of holding back. \r\n\r\nIf a kid changed, I want to know\u2014\u201cWas it a professor?\u201d \u201cWas it a roommate?\u201d \u201cWas it an experience?\u201d\u2014\"Tell me the backstory,\u201d long before I try to correct their beliefs.\r\n\r\nAnn: Have you guys had those conversations with your kids?\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah, I'll be somewhat discreet; but I will say one thing: \u201cDon't freak out when they're talking to you.\u201d\r\n\r\nSean:Exactly.\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah; you can freak out, in the back bedroom, with your spouse. I remember, early on, one of our kids\u2014I want to say this was elementary school\u2014remember: \u201cList the ten most important things in your life.\u201d And mom and dad\u2014the teacher said\u2014is always number one; but then, God was on the list. One of our kids came home with the list, and God was fifth. And he, literally\u2014I'll never forget this\u2014he literally said, \u201cI know you wanted that to be higher, but it's not.\u201d Could we freak out?\u2014yes, in the back bedroom\u2014\u201cLord, we failed! We should have homeschooled,\u201d\u2014something like that; but don't freak out in front of them. \r\n\r\nThis is what we would say as professors: \u201cYou're getting one little slice. It's a photograph; it's not the end product.\u201d But to let my students have office hours, where they're just saying things that might even be a little heretical, because they're in process; they're wrestling. I want to teach them to be good thinkers. \r\n\r\nI would say this: \u201cWhen the child comes home; and now, you're going to have a family conversation\u2014maybe, process the election\u2014I wouldn't do that spontaneously.\u201d If it does come up spontaneously, like, \u201cHey, how did y'all vote?!\u201d I'd be [thinking], \u201cYeah, we're not doing that\u201d; I would say, \u201cHey, what a great question. Two nights from now, let's order pizza. It'd be kind of fun to go around\u2014say, if you want to\u2014\u2018\u2026how I voted and why.\u2019 But give me, at least, two days to prepare.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd then, in our house, there needs to be food; there needs to be a distract. We're all not just going to sit down at a table, and say, \u201cOkay, go first,\u201d\u2014that's too much pressure. So we would have pizza or something\u2014or maybe, even a game on in the background, as weird as that sounds\u2014because you can't just have the intensity build, and build, and build. There has to be distractions\/good distractions. Knowing the Muehlhoff family, you'd have to construct that; you'd have to prepare for that and carefully do it. \r\n\r\nWe have one whole chapter on \u201cHow to Construct a Conversation.\u201d Very quickly: \r\n\r\nOne: \u201cAsk them what they honestly think.\u201d I'm trying not to get defensive. \r\n\r\nSecond: \u201cNow, why do you think that?\u201d The bricolage thing is interesting: \u201cPiece it together for me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Brick-by-brick sort of thing, right?\r\n\r\nTim: Brick-by-brick. \r\n\r\nThe third one is so important: \u201cHere's why I agree. You and I voted differently. But here's where I agree, where I could see why you voted the way you did; that made sense to me,\u201d\u2014find the common ground. \r\n\r\nAnd then, the fourth one is: \u201cAsk clarifications\/more questions\u2014and then, you know it\u2019s going to get flipped\u2014\u2018And now, you're going to go through that same process with me.\u2019\u201d \r\n\r\nYou're going to, literally, go through those four questions. We find that that gives speed bumps so the conversation doesn't get derailed. Again, you have to practice it. That's why\u2014again, at that website\u2014you practice all of these principles.\r\n\r\nAnn: And I would add this: \u201cIf you're in a family\u2014where your kids are married\u2014you're bringing in-laws into the situation who have a different upbringing; maybe different views; maybe a different way that conflict and even conversations are taking place. I think we could have a conversation with our kids\u2014they all know they're incredibly loved\u2014we\u2019re going to love them no matter what\/or what their views are; we're going to love them. However, our daughters-in-law may not be as secure in that love; and so, we're way more cautious, now, in having some of the conversations. Because they may not understand, like, \u201cMan, you can say anything; and I'm going to love you.\u201d We can say that, but we don't know their background. Do you see that at all? Could that be something that\u2014\r\n\r\nSean:Well, I don't have any sons-in-law or daughters-in-law. \r\n\r\nDave: They\u2019re much younger than us. \r\n\r\nAnn: I know that you are. \r\n\r\nSean: So it's theoretical for me. But I think my response would be: \u201cWhy do we freak out in those settings?\u201d And I think one reason is we take it personally.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nSean: We feel like we have failed\u2014which may have nothing to do with it\u2014which makes it about us, not about them. \r\n\r\nAnd \u201cWhy not freak out?\u201d Because, number one, we want to keep the conversation going for a while. I'd much rather have my kid come tell me, and say, \u201cHey, I'm not a Christian\u201d; and keep the conversation going. If you freak out, you shut that down. And also\u2014for the reason you just mentioned\u2014that \u201cIf I freak out, does that communicate that my love for you is conditional?\u201d I don't want to communicate that. \r\n\r\nThere's a lot of reasons not to freak out in the moment. In fact, my dad actually\u2014he told me this\u2014he used to practice, in his mind ahead of time, how he would respond if: \u201cMy daughter said, \u2018Dad, I'm pregnant,\u2019\u201d or if I said, \u201cHey dad, I'm gay,\u201d or if I said, \u201cHey, I decided to drop out of college,\u201d \u201c\u2026I decided to smoke marijuana,\u201d or anything that didn't fit the script that he, maybe, had for my life. And if you practice that, in your mind ahead of time, you're, at least, more likely to respond in a fashion you won\u2019t later regret.\r\n\r\nDave:I mean, do you ever feel like the way to end the stalemate is: \u201cWe're not going to talk about it\u201d? \u201cThere are certain things in our home, we're just not going to go there. We've tried\u2014we know what you think; you know what we think\u2014we're not going to have the conversation.\u201d \r\n\r\nPart of me is like, sometimes\u2014I'm a withdrawer, so I don't want conflict\u2014\"Let's just eat the turkey\u201d; and it's like denial. It's like we can't go there; because there's certain topics that are just so explosive in our home, or in our neighborhood, or in our church, whatever. It's better just not to have the conversation. Is that ever a better policy?\u2014 \u201cWe're not going to agree. Do I just love you in a way that says, \u2018We can't have this conversation\u2019?\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: I have a 40-year friendship. This is a person\u2014we went to college together, Eastern Michigan University\u2014we're in Cru together. We've been through thick and thin. So the trust is there\u2014that you were mentioning\u2014we do not talk about theology when it comes to something called Calvinism or Arminianism\u2014if you understand what that means\u2014\"Does God control everything?\u2019 or \u201cDoes He allow free will to act?\u201d We've had this conversation forever\u2014it never tends to go well\u2014we both feel very strongly and can quote chapter and verse to support our positions. We recently\u2014I would say within the last ten years, we avoid politics\u2014now, we talk about other theological issues: we talk about ethics; we talk about church life; our marriages\u2014but [Calvinism vs. Arminianism], it just doesn't go anywhere. And we have a 40-year track record. \r\n\r\nI do think, if a couple\/a family can legitimately say, \u201cYeah, I think\/I don't know if we need to go here. You have friends you can talk to,\u201d\u2014I think it's okay to bracket. I think, if a marriage or a family, has a million of those, then I might start to think, \u201cI don't know if bracketing needs to be your go-to position; but I do think it's okay to have one or two areas, that we're just going to bracket: \u2018We're not going to go there.\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah. Any thoughts, Sean? I got another question on that unless you have a thought.\r\n\r\nSean:I think I, generally, agree with that. I think the relationship is going to shape it. We have family members we'll see once a week out of a year; and it's like, \u201cLet's have a good time; love on them,\u201d especially if they're not Christians. Of course, I'm not going to bring up politics; because I know they're very different than what we view. But that's different than with my wife. I can't think of any issue\u2014I can't think of one\u2014and the only reason I would say not\u2014if I feel like, \u201cOkay, have you understood my position? I've understood yours,\u201d\u2014we have talked this through; know exactly why we differ and where; and then, we can move on\u2014as opposed to: \u201cI just can't go there; I don't want to talk about it,\u201d\u2014and then, I go, \u201cOkay, then there's something wrong there that is going to come up later; and it's undermining the nature of the relationship.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah, that's good. \r\n\r\nWhat about this?\u2014your adult child has walked away from the faith you've instilled their whole life: \u201cDo you bring it up?\u201d You've talked about it a couple times\u2014you know where they stand; they know where you stand\u2014you've raised them that way. But now, they're at a point, where they're not really warming up to coming back. As a parent, \u201cDo you let it go? Or do you bring it up once every year, twice, three times a month? What do you do?\u201d \r\n\r\nI know there's listeners right there like that: \u201cThat's where my kid is. I don't know what to do. Do I not talk about it? We've had those conversations; they didn't end well,\u201d or \u201cDo I keep trying to understand their perspective? I'm not trying to convince them, but I want to know what they think; and they feel like I'm trying to bring him back.\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: I teach a family communication class. There's the longest study done on children and faith called \u201cFaith and Families.\u201d He said, with prodigal children, the number-one principle is: \u201cKeep the door open, and do not burn that bridge.\u201d I think you let the child know: \u201cWe love you; we accept you. Nothing's ever going to sever this relationship, and you know our values. My goodness, we don't need to talk about this anymore. Mom and I go to church every Sunday, and we know that you've kind of walked away.\u201d \r\n\r\nHe says, in his research, that the vast majority of prodigals eventually come back if the door is kept open\u2014there's a loving attitude\u2014and the warmth of the father, particularly, woos the hearts of the children. And there's a ton of reasons for that we can't go into. I think, \u201cDads, we need to\/man, you need to lead with love.\u201d And I think it's okay to say, \u201cNow, you know Mom and I don't approve of that; I mean, you know that.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014\"but we love you.\u201d\r\n\r\nSean:I would encourage parents, if your kids have walked away, to think about having this conversation: \u201cHey, son,\u201d or \u201cHey, daughter, I understand you don't believe anymore. Would you be willing to sit down for coffee with me and just talk about that journey? All I want to do is understand: \u2018When did you start having questions?\u2019 \u2018Who did you talk with?\u2019 \u2018What was helpful?\u2019 \u2018What were the big questions?\u2019 \u2018Are there any things you miss about your faith?\u2019 \u2018Where are you at, emotionally?\u2019 \u2018How often do you think about God?\u2019 \u2018How do you wish we had parented you differently?\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: That's good.\r\n\r\nSean:That can be painful; but I think that communicates to a kid: \u201cI love you, first; I just want to understand.\u201d And that reinforces the point, that Tim said, that: \u201cThis door is open.\u201d And then, you just ask him, \u201cYou know that I think this is true, and I want you to be a Christian. There's no hiding that; I can't. How much are you open to talking about this?\u201d And there's some kids\u2014like Jesus let the rich young ruler walk away\u2014if this person's like, \u201cI don't want to hear it, ever.\u201d Man, that's hard to [hear]: \u201cnever\u201d; but that tells you their heart is not open. That's going to burn bridges by pushing\u2014even little comments\/\"poking the bear,\u201d even in, like, \u201cThis is fun,\u201d\u2014but sometimes, poking the bear can have a little edge to it. \r\n\r\nAnd other kids would say, \u201cOh, I'm happy to talk about it.\u201d So you got to find out the backstory, and understand it, and just say, \u201cIf you were in my shoes, and you really believed this was true, and you had a kid who walked away, what would you do?\u201d And just listen. It doesn't mean you have to do everything that they say; but if you don't, at least, understand where they're coming from first. You're going to have faulty assumptions that just lead to further conflict and, probably, burn more bridges.\r\n\r\nTim: Sean has a book, with a great researcher, John Marriott called Set Adrift.\r\n\r\nDave:We've had John on; it\u2019s called Set Adrift.\r\n\r\nSean: Yeah, we did it together.\r\n\r\nTim: Oh, okay.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, it was so good.\r\n\r\nDave: So good.\r\n\r\nTim: That needs to be standard.\r\n\r\nDave:Deconstruction\u2014the whole thing\u2014he's one of the best on that.\r\n\r\nAnn: So helpful. \r\n\r\nDave: And I would just add\u2014I know Sean's saying this\u2014but the way Sean even said that\u2014the tone of voice\u2014right? \u201cParents, did you hear that? That's how you have this conversation. And when you hear your son or daughter responding, and you feel something welling up within you to correct them, or to say, \u2018No, that's not what\u2026\u2019 you got to let it go, right? You got to be quiet\/listen.\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: That\u2019s the heart thing, right? We\u2019re back to the heart preparation.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave:Talk post-conversation.\r\n\r\nTim: Okay; this is what we've learned from the Winsome Conviction Project; this one surprised us. We did this one conversation, where we had two academics, who flat-out disagreed with each other, but we brought them together for a conversation. We actually did the pre-conversation. We had a five-hour dinner, where we heard the backstory. We prayed for the evening. The evening went so well. It was packed; everybody was there. As this conversation is happening, I actually have the thought, \u201cHow do you get nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize? Do they send you an email? Does somebody show up?\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: I can say I've never had that thought in my life! \r\n\r\nTim: The two participants finished; they even said, \u201cThis went remarkably well.\u201d Five days later\u2014I kid you not\u2014we get a response from both: \u201cThis was unfair. What you did was really bad for students to see. You manipulated us.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: What?!\r\n\r\nTim: We were dumbfounded! \r\n\r\nHere's what happened: they both went back to their in-groups. By the way, many of those at the in-group weren't even at the event; and it wasn't recorded. So you either had to be there, live, or not. They weren't there; they even admitted they weren't there, but they said, \u201cOh, no, no, no, no, no; remember this about that person,\u201d \u201cRemember this about the person,\u201d \u201cOh, this,\u201d and \u201c\u2026this,\u201d and \u201c\u2026this.\u201d And they got deprogrammed; and then, came back and were actually upset at [us]. So this is going nowhere\u2014end the stalemate will not happen\u2014if we don't deal with our in-groups. \r\n\r\nAnd let me just say\u2014I'm speaking to myself\u2014if we're talking very uncharitably about other people in private, and it's okay\u2014we have that wonderful little phrase, \u201cHey, this is just between you and me,\u201d\u2014and then, we violate every communication principle Paul talks about, right?\u2014slander, gossip; and the stalemate is going to happen. We've got to start to be charitable and be able to talk in favorable ways about people we disagree with. We are spectacularly failing, and we're going to have to have courage to start calling people out. We got to start saying, \u201cHey, the way we talk about the President in our in-group is not good. We can disagree\u2014we're committed to our political values\u2014but we got to start toning things up. We got to start being more Christ-like in our in-house conversations.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:So the private conversations, especially with your in-group,\u2014\r\n\r\nTim: How you talk about people, privately, is how you treat them, publicly. People say, \u201cThat's not true!\u201d And I say, based on Daniel Goleman\u2019s \u201cEmotional Contagion,\u201d the negative feelings that you have created in your in-group, it absolutely bleeds into a conversation; and people pick up on it, on the low road of the brain. This is Goleman; this is his \u201cEmotional contagion\u201d; I really buy it. So yeah, you can put on a positive face, but those negative emotions\u2014because you've cultivated them; stirred them in your in-group\u2014it has to start with the house of God. We have to start being charitable in our private conversations.\r\n\r\nSean:When you just vent\u2014there's some times you're just so frustrated: \u201cGot to get it off my chest,\u201d\u2014is there a time and place for that, ever?\r\n\r\nTim: I don't know; I don't know.\r\n\r\nAnn:Could you do that with your spouse?\r\n\r\nTim: I want to say there's, probably, good venting and bad venting.\r\n\r\nAnn: That's what I think, too.\r\n\r\nTim: There's probably venting that crosses a line. You know what I mean?\u2014\r\n\r\nSean:Yeah, that's probably true.\r\n\r\nTim: \u2014questioning the character of a person. \r\n\r\nWell, I do want to say, with the people in our in-group, or our friends and spouses, I should be able to vent; because I'm really frustrated. Eventually, maybe, my spouse comes back and says, \u201cHey, I'm glad you got that off your chest, but you know that probably wasn't fair towards our pastor,\u201d or \u201c\u2026fair towards Sean,\u201d or something like that. So I don't know, Sean; that's a great question. I want to probably say there's okay forms and there's probably forms that kind of cross a line, a little bit of venting.\r\n\r\nAnn: Would you ever do that, Sean, with your wife?\u2014could you see yourself venting, but saying something kind of nasty about someone?\r\n\r\nSean:Oh, I hope I don't say things that are nasty about somebody. Sometimes, I've said to my wife\/I say, \u201cHonestly, here's how I feel\u2026\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: I think that's good.\r\n\r\nSean:And then, I'll express how I feel. \r\n\r\nTim: I think that's good.\r\n\r\nSean:And then, I'll reflect on it, and be like, \u201cI would never want to say that publicly. And I don't love that I feel that way, but that's honestly how I feel when I see this.\u201d And by the way, I mean it is true; sometimes people say things that are really dumb. Now, there's a difference for me\u2014saying that person is dumb [instead of] what they said was dumb\u2014and these are the kinds of distinctions that are important. But yeah, sure; I vented to my wife; and then, apologized. I'm not venting about her; it's about something else. But sometimes, you just got to get it off your chest; but then, it's worth: \u201cOkay, why was that on my chest? Why is that in my heart? Is there deeper issues maybe that I need to wrestle with?\u201d\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: And I think, too\u2014\r\n\r\nSean:\u2014would be the question. \r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014when I've done that, too, I'm convicted by the Holy Spirit to come back\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014or by me.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014of: \u201cHow should we talk?\u201d and \u201cWhat should our speech be like?\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: Can I make a spiritual point? I think it's okay to vent to God.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes!\r\n\r\nTim: I see it in the Psalms. I see some amazing venting that is borderline: \u201cGod, where were You?! You were asleep when this was happening\u2014the armies of Israel got slaughtered\u2014and where were You?!\u201d God can handle that.\r\n\r\nSean:Those are complaint Psalms, right?\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah, yeah.\r\n\r\nSean:Some of the largest\u2014not the largest group\u2014of all the Psalms are complaint Psalms and prayers that are really honest.\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah! I want to have a place for that.\r\n\r\nDave:And I would just add\u2014this is a whole other topic; and we're out of time\u2014so we can't develop it. But I think you're going to agree with this. The post-talk\u2014and this happens a lot in the church world\u2014as a pastor for 30 plus years, I watched this happen. I don't think church people\/Christians are very good at this. We want to be graceful and tender. And so, when I have a problem with Tim, often in church world, instead of going to Tim, I'll go\u2014I\u2019m saying, \u201cAnn,\u201d\u2014but I\u2019ll go to a friend. or another staff member on this church staff. We'll shut the door, and we'll both talk about Tim. \r\n\r\nAnd sometimes, we'll even say, \u201cWe need to pray for Tim.\u201d And it's like a prayer\u2014it's spiritual\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014gossip.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014but it never gets to Tim. And we even had a policy on our church staff, in the early days: \u201cIf you come in, and you bring up some other staff member, we're stopping it right then.\u201d I'm saying, \u201cGo get them; let's all talk.\u201d They're not allowed to do this [spiritual gossip]. We call it first-person communication [that\u2019s] got to happen. That happened in our church staff, with a couple hundred staff, for twenty-some years.\r\n\r\nTim: Was it positive? Did people receive that? \r\n\r\nDave:It was awesome; it was hard, because people don't do that. But it was like I, literally, put my hand up\u2014like: \u201cGo get Joe,\u201d \u201cNo, no, no,\u201d \u201cGo get him! We're not going to talk about Joe without Joe here. Maybe, you two are going to talk, and I'm going to help you; but we're not having this conversation [without him].\u201d It was really healthy. \r\n\r\nI'm afraid to have that really hard conversation with somebody, so I'll go have it with somebody else. That's what you're saying\u2014that's that post-[talk]\u2014and it's my in-group, and they're going to agree with me. And next thing you know, you now have disunity.\r\n\r\nTim: And it's okay to get counsel. It's okay to sit down and say, \u201cI'm going to talk to Sean. I really do want to, but I don't know how to do it.\u201d It\u2019s totally different than me just saying things about Sean, with no intention of ever going to see him. I do think godly counsel would be good in certain situations.\r\n\r\nAnn: And if the holidays come, and you say some things\u2014because the bear was poked\u2014that you shouldn't have said, it might be a great idea to make a call to have a conversation, and just say, \u201cHey, I'm so sorry; I just blew up. I didn't mean to, and I hope that doesn't reflect how much I love you. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, and please forgive me.\u201d I think that that always goes a long way, even as you guys have both demonstrated.\r\n\r\nDave:Thanks for modeling for us. You even differ on different things, and you love each other, and you've revealed to the whole world: \u201cThis is how you do it, Christlike.\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: I love what Ann said there at the end of our time today. Who hasn't said something that they regret at some point in a heated conversation? Well, maybe the goal isn't always to say everything 100 percent correctly; but instead, maybe to just apologize when you make a mistake. I found that apologizing, when I've messed up, goes a long way with both adults and kids. So let's make a habit of doing that this coming holiday season. \r\n\r\nI'm Shelby Abbott; and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell, on FamilyLife Today. Tim and Sean have written a book called End the Stalemate: Move Past  Cancel Culture to Meaningful Conversations. You can get your copy, right now, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you could click on the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word,  TODAY. \r\n\r\nWe've talked about this today, and the last two days, but many of us are just tired of the tension and division that exists between our family, and our friends, and on social media. And while we read things in the Bible, like Psalm 1:33, that tells us it's good for believers to dwell in unity with one another, we just don't see that very often in today's easily-angered and often-offended culture. \r\n\r\nSo that's why I'm really excited to invite you to join us, here, at FamilyLife for a five-week video series from our friend\u2014author and comedian\u2014Amberly Neese. It's called \u201cMoving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World.\u201d In it, Amberly guides us on how to build peace with those who are closest to us when our differing thoughts, and opinions, and beliefs threaten to create division. You could sign up for this five-week video series for free by clicking on the link in the show notes, or going to FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround. Again, you can find it in the show notes, or head over to FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround. \r\n\r\nAre your kids college-ready? Well, Michael Kruger, author of Surviving Religion 101, examines how to prep teens for surviving their future religion classes and keep the faith at the same time. He'll be here with us tomorrow; we hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com                                 \r\n\r\n\n"],"_edit_lock":["1730917065:47000"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-309870.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-309870.js"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/11\/image_c255dc.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Do disagreements with family strain relationship at times? Learn to approach family conflict with wisdom and winsomeness with Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Tim Muehlhoff and catch more of their thoughts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biola.edu\/blogs\/winsome-conviction\">Winsome Conviction Project<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find previous podcast episodes and articles with Tim <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/profiles\/tim-muehlhoff\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Connect with Sean McDowell and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/seanmcdowell.org\/\">seanmcdowell.org<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find more podcast episodes with Sean <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/profiles\/dr-sean-mcdowell\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>You find find their book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/end-the-stalemate-move-past-cancel-culture-to-meaningful-conversations\/\">End the Stalemate: Moving Past Cancel Culture to Meaningful Conversations<\/a>,\" in our shop!<\/li>\n<li>FamilyLife has a free devotional for you from Amberly Neese: \"Finding Common Ground.\" Sign up at <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/content-offers\/finding-common-ground\/\">familylife.com\/findingcommonground<\/a><br \/>\n<hr>\n<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-11-06.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae with Dave and Ann Wilson - Web Version Transcript\r\n\r\nThis content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.\r\n\r\nFamily Conflict in the Time of Cancel Culture\r\n\r\nGuests:Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell\r\n\r\nFrom the series:End the Stalemate (Day 3 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:November 6, 2024\r\n\r\nTim: We've got to start to be charitable and be able to talk in favorable ways about people we disagree with. We are spectacularly failing, and we're going to have to have courage to start calling people out.\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife\u2014 \r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Today.\r\n\r\nDave:So we got Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell back in the studio, talking about  End the Stalemate, having meaningful conversations with people that we have different opinions with. And again, you can look them up; their bios are long and weighty.\r\n\r\nAnn: They're both professors and doctors.\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014doctors; they teach students every single day. \r\n\r\nTim: We need to come here more often, Sean.\r\n\r\nSean:Oh man, I'm feeling the love. \r\n\r\nTim: This is awesome; I love this.\r\n\r\nDave:We don't get to say this every day about our guests. Man, oh man; I feel like we're in the presence of royalty. And again,\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014and they both have great podcasts, too.\r\n\r\nDave: Yeah; tell us the names of your podcasts.\r\n\r\nTim: Mine is called Tim Muehlhoff Can Change Your Life podcast. \r\n\r\nDave: Yeah, that's it!\r\n\r\nTim: We have two listeners, my wife\u2014no.\r\n\r\nDave: Your wife's not listening; she's not one of them. \r\n\r\nTim: No, it's called Winsome Conviction podcast. We bring on people we know disagree with each other, and we try to model what it's like to have good engaging conversations.\r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s good.\r\n\r\nSean:Think Biblically, with my co-host, Scott Rae. We want to think, biblically, about every issue under the sun.\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014amazing, amazing teacher.\r\n\r\nSean:Yes, he is; still is.\r\n\r\nDave:I took Hebrew from him. I never thought I'd want to think like he\u2014and J.P. Moreland\u2014made me just realize how thinking is so, so important. Okay,\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: I think, too\u2014let me add this\u2014\u201cIf you're a parent, with young adults or even high school students, listening to either of your podcasts would be really beneficial. One that you could say, \u2018Hey, I just listened to this. I'd love to get your thoughts on this.\u2019\u201d It's like a bridge of conversation that can take place because you guys both do a really good job.\r\n\r\nTim: And Ann, I would add to what you said\u2014I think this was yesterday\u2014\u201cAsk your children what podcasts they listen to and start listening to them, or trade songs:\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nTim: \u2014\u201c\u2019What are the songs that you really resonate with?\u2019\u201d One child, particularly, we trade songs all the time; what a glimpse into the world!\r\n\r\nDave:Well, we're talking about your book, End the Stalemate: Move Past Cancel Culture to Meaningful Conversations\u2014which is really interesting is\u2014you guys don't agree on everything,\u2014\r\n\r\nTim: No.\r\n\r\nDave:\u2014and you wrote a book together!\r\n\r\nTim: We did.\r\n\r\nDave:It's like, \u201cNo, no, no; that can't be possible. You do not agree on everything.\u201d \r\n\r\nI got an email from you about the endorsement: about an area that you guys didn't agree on, like, \u201cDo you guys want to take your endorsement back?\u201d I love the thought that, \u201cOh, my goodness, you're modeling ending the stalemate.\u201d \r\n\r\nWe've already talked about pre-conversation. We need to talk about: \u201cOkay, when we're in the conversation, how do we have this?\u201d We have kids coming home from college this month. The election just happened; your person might not have got elected. That could cause\u2014or they might have; I don't know\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Your kids may not want to come home for Christmas or Thanksgiving because of the political climate in your house. And so we're navigating that, as parents: \u201cWhat's the best way to go about these conversations?\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: \u201cHow do we have healthy conversations?\u201d\r\n\r\nSean:So here's a question for you: \u201cIf you're worried about your kids coming home this Thanksgiving, do you want them coming back home in five Thanksgivings? Do you want them coming back in 20 Thanksgivings, with your grandkids?\u201d You've got to play the long game when it comes to communication. And if they're afraid to come home, now, they could cut ties; and things could go south for a long time. \r\n\r\nWe talked, in our first discussion, Tim raised a point where, sometimes, you cannot prepare when somebody just drops a comment; you're like, \u201cOh, how do I respond?!\u201d\u2014you're emotionally-engaged. Kids coming home for Thanksgiving: you can prepare your heart, and you can prepare your mind. One thing I heard Kara Powell, at Fuller Theological Seminary, say she asks her kids all the time; she says, \u201cTell me what you believe that mom and dad still believe. Tell me something that you now don't believe that we believe, and why.\u201d And just listen\u2014don't get defensive\u2014try to understand. That's a powerful thing to do, in the right time and the right way, with your kids.\r\n\r\nDave:And don't correct them when they say, \u201cI don't believe this anymore.\u201d You don't try and convince them; you just listen.\r\n\r\nSean:At least, not initially. Step number one is: \u201cUnderstand.\u201d But I also want to know the backstory: \u201cWhat led to you changing this? Was there an experience that you had?\u201d\r\n\r\nTim's got a great chapter on \u201cBriccolage,\u201d which is how we put together our belief systems. We'd all like to think that they're lined up by analyzing evidence and looking at the data\u2014that's not true\u2014it's relationships; it's experiences; it's hurts. So \u201cIf you've changed your views,\u201d\u2014could it be, for some kids, they just want to have their identity at something that's different from their parents? I remember telling a kid, who left his faith; and after I figured out for a while, I was like, \u201cOh, my goodness, your parents have controlled everything in your life\u201d; but they couldn't control what he believed, so that was his way of holding back. \r\n\r\nIf a kid changed, I want to know\u2014\u201cWas it a professor?\u201d \u201cWas it a roommate?\u201d \u201cWas it an experience?\u201d\u2014\"Tell me the backstory,\u201d long before I try to correct their beliefs.\r\n\r\nAnn: Have you guys had those conversations with your kids?\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah, I'll be somewhat discreet; but I will say one thing: \u201cDon't freak out when they're talking to you.\u201d\r\n\r\nSean:Exactly.\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah; you can freak out, in the back bedroom, with your spouse. I remember, early on, one of our kids\u2014I want to say this was elementary school\u2014remember: \u201cList the ten most important things in your life.\u201d And mom and dad\u2014the teacher said\u2014is always number one; but then, God was on the list. One of our kids came home with the list, and God was fifth. And he, literally\u2014I'll never forget this\u2014he literally said, \u201cI know you wanted that to be higher, but it's not.\u201d Could we freak out?\u2014yes, in the back bedroom\u2014\u201cLord, we failed! We should have homeschooled,\u201d\u2014something like that; but don't freak out in front of them. \r\n\r\nThis is what we would say as professors: \u201cYou're getting one little slice. It's a photograph; it's not the end product.\u201d But to let my students have office hours, where they're just saying things that might even be a little heretical, because they're in process; they're wrestling. I want to teach them to be good thinkers. \r\n\r\nI would say this: \u201cWhen the child comes home; and now, you're going to have a family conversation\u2014maybe, process the election\u2014I wouldn't do that spontaneously.\u201d If it does come up spontaneously, like, \u201cHey, how did y'all vote?!\u201d I'd be [thinking], \u201cYeah, we're not doing that\u201d; I would say, \u201cHey, what a great question. Two nights from now, let's order pizza. It'd be kind of fun to go around\u2014say, if you want to\u2014\u2018\u2026how I voted and why.\u2019 But give me, at least, two days to prepare.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd then, in our house, there needs to be food; there needs to be a distract. We're all not just going to sit down at a table, and say, \u201cOkay, go first,\u201d\u2014that's too much pressure. So we would have pizza or something\u2014or maybe, even a game on in the background, as weird as that sounds\u2014because you can't just have the intensity build, and build, and build. There has to be distractions\/good distractions. Knowing the Muehlhoff family, you'd have to construct that; you'd have to prepare for that and carefully do it. \r\n\r\nWe have one whole chapter on \u201cHow to Construct a Conversation.\u201d Very quickly: \r\n\r\nOne: \u201cAsk them what they honestly think.\u201d I'm trying not to get defensive. \r\n\r\nSecond: \u201cNow, why do you think that?\u201d The bricolage thing is interesting: \u201cPiece it together for me.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Brick-by-brick sort of thing, right?\r\n\r\nTim: Brick-by-brick. \r\n\r\nThe third one is so important: \u201cHere's why I agree. You and I voted differently. But here's where I agree, where I could see why you voted the way you did; that made sense to me,\u201d\u2014find the common ground. \r\n\r\nAnd then, the fourth one is: \u201cAsk clarifications\/more questions\u2014and then, you know it\u2019s going to get flipped\u2014\u2018And now, you're going to go through that same process with me.\u2019\u201d \r\n\r\nYou're going to, literally, go through those four questions. We find that that gives speed bumps so the conversation doesn't get derailed. Again, you have to practice it. That's why\u2014again, at that website\u2014you practice all of these principles.\r\n\r\nAnn: And I would add this: \u201cIf you're in a family\u2014where your kids are married\u2014you're bringing in-laws into the situation who have a different upbringing; maybe different views; maybe a different way that conflict and even conversations are taking place. I think we could have a conversation with our kids\u2014they all know they're incredibly loved\u2014we\u2019re going to love them no matter what\/or what their views are; we're going to love them. However, our daughters-in-law may not be as secure in that love; and so, we're way more cautious, now, in having some of the conversations. Because they may not understand, like, \u201cMan, you can say anything; and I'm going to love you.\u201d We can say that, but we don't know their background. Do you see that at all? Could that be something that\u2014\r\n\r\nSean:Well, I don't have any sons-in-law or daughters-in-law. \r\n\r\nDave: They\u2019re much younger than us. \r\n\r\nAnn: I know that you are. \r\n\r\nSean: So it's theoretical for me. But I think my response would be: \u201cWhy do we freak out in those settings?\u201d And I think one reason is we take it personally.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nSean: We feel like we have failed\u2014which may have nothing to do with it\u2014which makes it about us, not about them. \r\n\r\nAnd \u201cWhy not freak out?\u201d Because, number one, we want to keep the conversation going for a while. I'd much rather have my kid come tell me, and say, \u201cHey, I'm not a Christian\u201d; and keep the conversation going. If you freak out, you shut that down. And also\u2014for the reason you just mentioned\u2014that \u201cIf I freak out, does that communicate that my love for you is conditional?\u201d I don't want to communicate that. \r\n\r\nThere's a lot of reasons not to freak out in the moment. In fact, my dad actually\u2014he told me this\u2014he used to practice, in his mind ahead of time, how he would respond if: \u201cMy daughter said, \u2018Dad, I'm pregnant,\u2019\u201d or if I said, \u201cHey dad, I'm gay,\u201d or if I said, \u201cHey, I decided to drop out of college,\u201d \u201c\u2026I decided to smoke marijuana,\u201d or anything that didn't fit the script that he, maybe, had for my life. And if you practice that, in your mind ahead of time, you're, at least, more likely to respond in a fashion you won\u2019t later regret.\r\n\r\nDave:I mean, do you ever feel like the way to end the stalemate is: \u201cWe're not going to talk about it\u201d? \u201cThere are certain things in our home, we're just not going to go there. We've tried\u2014we know what you think; you know what we think\u2014we're not going to have the conversation.\u201d \r\n\r\nPart of me is like, sometimes\u2014I'm a withdrawer, so I don't want conflict\u2014\"Let's just eat the turkey\u201d; and it's like denial. It's like we can't go there; because there's certain topics that are just so explosive in our home, or in our neighborhood, or in our church, whatever. It's better just not to have the conversation. Is that ever a better policy?\u2014 \u201cWe're not going to agree. Do I just love you in a way that says, \u2018We can't have this conversation\u2019?\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: I have a 40-year friendship. This is a person\u2014we went to college together, Eastern Michigan University\u2014we're in Cru together. We've been through thick and thin. So the trust is there\u2014that you were mentioning\u2014we do not talk about theology when it comes to something called Calvinism or Arminianism\u2014if you understand what that means\u2014\"Does God control everything?\u2019 or \u201cDoes He allow free will to act?\u201d We've had this conversation forever\u2014it never tends to go well\u2014we both feel very strongly and can quote chapter and verse to support our positions. We recently\u2014I would say within the last ten years, we avoid politics\u2014now, we talk about other theological issues: we talk about ethics; we talk about church life; our marriages\u2014but [Calvinism vs. Arminianism], it just doesn't go anywhere. And we have a 40-year track record. \r\n\r\nI do think, if a couple\/a family can legitimately say, \u201cYeah, I think\/I don't know if we need to go here. You have friends you can talk to,\u201d\u2014I think it's okay to bracket. I think, if a marriage or a family, has a million of those, then I might start to think, \u201cI don't know if bracketing needs to be your go-to position; but I do think it's okay to have one or two areas, that we're just going to bracket: \u2018We're not going to go there.\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah. Any thoughts, Sean? I got another question on that unless you have a thought.\r\n\r\nSean:I think I, generally, agree with that. I think the relationship is going to shape it. We have family members we'll see once a week out of a year; and it's like, \u201cLet's have a good time; love on them,\u201d especially if they're not Christians. Of course, I'm not going to bring up politics; because I know they're very different than what we view. But that's different than with my wife. I can't think of any issue\u2014I can't think of one\u2014and the only reason I would say not\u2014if I feel like, \u201cOkay, have you understood my position? I've understood yours,\u201d\u2014we have talked this through; know exactly why we differ and where; and then, we can move on\u2014as opposed to: \u201cI just can't go there; I don't want to talk about it,\u201d\u2014and then, I go, \u201cOkay, then there's something wrong there that is going to come up later; and it's undermining the nature of the relationship.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:Yeah, that's good. \r\n\r\nWhat about this?\u2014your adult child has walked away from the faith you've instilled their whole life: \u201cDo you bring it up?\u201d You've talked about it a couple times\u2014you know where they stand; they know where you stand\u2014you've raised them that way. But now, they're at a point, where they're not really warming up to coming back. As a parent, \u201cDo you let it go? Or do you bring it up once every year, twice, three times a month? What do you do?\u201d \r\n\r\nI know there's listeners right there like that: \u201cThat's where my kid is. I don't know what to do. Do I not talk about it? We've had those conversations; they didn't end well,\u201d or \u201cDo I keep trying to understand their perspective? I'm not trying to convince them, but I want to know what they think; and they feel like I'm trying to bring him back.\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: I teach a family communication class. There's the longest study done on children and faith called \u201cFaith and Families.\u201d He said, with prodigal children, the number-one principle is: \u201cKeep the door open, and do not burn that bridge.\u201d I think you let the child know: \u201cWe love you; we accept you. Nothing's ever going to sever this relationship, and you know our values. My goodness, we don't need to talk about this anymore. Mom and I go to church every Sunday, and we know that you've kind of walked away.\u201d \r\n\r\nHe says, in his research, that the vast majority of prodigals eventually come back if the door is kept open\u2014there's a loving attitude\u2014and the warmth of the father, particularly, woos the hearts of the children. And there's a ton of reasons for that we can't go into. I think, \u201cDads, we need to\/man, you need to lead with love.\u201d And I think it's okay to say, \u201cNow, you know Mom and I don't approve of that; I mean, you know that.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014\"but we love you.\u201d\r\n\r\nSean:I would encourage parents, if your kids have walked away, to think about having this conversation: \u201cHey, son,\u201d or \u201cHey, daughter, I understand you don't believe anymore. Would you be willing to sit down for coffee with me and just talk about that journey? All I want to do is understand: \u2018When did you start having questions?\u2019 \u2018Who did you talk with?\u2019 \u2018What was helpful?\u2019 \u2018What were the big questions?\u2019 \u2018Are there any things you miss about your faith?\u2019 \u2018Where are you at, emotionally?\u2019 \u2018How often do you think about God?\u2019 \u2018How do you wish we had parented you differently?\u2019\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: That's good.\r\n\r\nSean:That can be painful; but I think that communicates to a kid: \u201cI love you, first; I just want to understand.\u201d And that reinforces the point, that Tim said, that: \u201cThis door is open.\u201d And then, you just ask him, \u201cYou know that I think this is true, and I want you to be a Christian. There's no hiding that; I can't. How much are you open to talking about this?\u201d And there's some kids\u2014like Jesus let the rich young ruler walk away\u2014if this person's like, \u201cI don't want to hear it, ever.\u201d Man, that's hard to [hear]: \u201cnever\u201d; but that tells you their heart is not open. That's going to burn bridges by pushing\u2014even little comments\/\"poking the bear,\u201d even in, like, \u201cThis is fun,\u201d\u2014but sometimes, poking the bear can have a little edge to it. \r\n\r\nAnd other kids would say, \u201cOh, I'm happy to talk about it.\u201d So you got to find out the backstory, and understand it, and just say, \u201cIf you were in my shoes, and you really believed this was true, and you had a kid who walked away, what would you do?\u201d And just listen. It doesn't mean you have to do everything that they say; but if you don't, at least, understand where they're coming from first. You're going to have faulty assumptions that just lead to further conflict and, probably, burn more bridges.\r\n\r\nTim: Sean has a book, with a great researcher, John Marriott called Set Adrift.\r\n\r\nDave:We've had John on; it\u2019s called Set Adrift.\r\n\r\nSean: Yeah, we did it together.\r\n\r\nTim: Oh, okay.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, it was so good.\r\n\r\nDave: So good.\r\n\r\nTim: That needs to be standard.\r\n\r\nDave:Deconstruction\u2014the whole thing\u2014he's one of the best on that.\r\n\r\nAnn: So helpful. \r\n\r\nDave: And I would just add\u2014I know Sean's saying this\u2014but the way Sean even said that\u2014the tone of voice\u2014right? \u201cParents, did you hear that? That's how you have this conversation. And when you hear your son or daughter responding, and you feel something welling up within you to correct them, or to say, \u2018No, that's not what\u2026\u2019 you got to let it go, right? You got to be quiet\/listen.\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: That\u2019s the heart thing, right? We\u2019re back to the heart preparation.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave:Talk post-conversation.\r\n\r\nTim: Okay; this is what we've learned from the Winsome Conviction Project; this one surprised us. We did this one conversation, where we had two academics, who flat-out disagreed with each other, but we brought them together for a conversation. We actually did the pre-conversation. We had a five-hour dinner, where we heard the backstory. We prayed for the evening. The evening went so well. It was packed; everybody was there. As this conversation is happening, I actually have the thought, \u201cHow do you get nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize? Do they send you an email? Does somebody show up?\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: I can say I've never had that thought in my life! \r\n\r\nTim: The two participants finished; they even said, \u201cThis went remarkably well.\u201d Five days later\u2014I kid you not\u2014we get a response from both: \u201cThis was unfair. What you did was really bad for students to see. You manipulated us.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: What?!\r\n\r\nTim: We were dumbfounded! \r\n\r\nHere's what happened: they both went back to their in-groups. By the way, many of those at the in-group weren't even at the event; and it wasn't recorded. So you either had to be there, live, or not. They weren't there; they even admitted they weren't there, but they said, \u201cOh, no, no, no, no, no; remember this about that person,\u201d \u201cRemember this about the person,\u201d \u201cOh, this,\u201d and \u201c\u2026this,\u201d and \u201c\u2026this.\u201d And they got deprogrammed; and then, came back and were actually upset at [us]. So this is going nowhere\u2014end the stalemate will not happen\u2014if we don't deal with our in-groups. \r\n\r\nAnd let me just say\u2014I'm speaking to myself\u2014if we're talking very uncharitably about other people in private, and it's okay\u2014we have that wonderful little phrase, \u201cHey, this is just between you and me,\u201d\u2014and then, we violate every communication principle Paul talks about, right?\u2014slander, gossip; and the stalemate is going to happen. We've got to start to be charitable and be able to talk in favorable ways about people we disagree with. We are spectacularly failing, and we're going to have to have courage to start calling people out. We got to start saying, \u201cHey, the way we talk about the President in our in-group is not good. We can disagree\u2014we're committed to our political values\u2014but we got to start toning things up. We got to start being more Christ-like in our in-house conversations.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave:So the private conversations, especially with your in-group,\u2014\r\n\r\nTim: How you talk about people, privately, is how you treat them, publicly. People say, \u201cThat's not true!\u201d And I say, based on Daniel Goleman\u2019s \u201cEmotional Contagion,\u201d the negative feelings that you have created in your in-group, it absolutely bleeds into a conversation; and people pick up on it, on the low road of the brain. This is Goleman; this is his \u201cEmotional contagion\u201d; I really buy it. So yeah, you can put on a positive face, but those negative emotions\u2014because you've cultivated them; stirred them in your in-group\u2014it has to start with the house of God. We have to start being charitable in our private conversations.\r\n\r\nSean:When you just vent\u2014there's some times you're just so frustrated: \u201cGot to get it off my chest,\u201d\u2014is there a time and place for that, ever?\r\n\r\nTim: I don't know; I don't know.\r\n\r\nAnn:Could you do that with your spouse?\r\n\r\nTim: I want to say there's, probably, good venting and bad venting.\r\n\r\nAnn: That's what I think, too.\r\n\r\nTim: There's probably venting that crosses a line. You know what I mean?\u2014\r\n\r\nSean:Yeah, that's probably true.\r\n\r\nTim: \u2014questioning the character of a person. \r\n\r\nWell, I do want to say, with the people in our in-group, or our friends and spouses, I should be able to vent; because I'm really frustrated. Eventually, maybe, my spouse comes back and says, \u201cHey, I'm glad you got that off your chest, but you know that probably wasn't fair towards our pastor,\u201d or \u201c\u2026fair towards Sean,\u201d or something like that. So I don't know, Sean; that's a great question. I want to probably say there's okay forms and there's probably forms that kind of cross a line, a little bit of venting.\r\n\r\nAnn: Would you ever do that, Sean, with your wife?\u2014could you see yourself venting, but saying something kind of nasty about someone?\r\n\r\nSean:Oh, I hope I don't say things that are nasty about somebody. Sometimes, I've said to my wife\/I say, \u201cHonestly, here's how I feel\u2026\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: I think that's good.\r\n\r\nSean:And then, I'll express how I feel. \r\n\r\nTim: I think that's good.\r\n\r\nSean:And then, I'll reflect on it, and be like, \u201cI would never want to say that publicly. And I don't love that I feel that way, but that's honestly how I feel when I see this.\u201d And by the way, I mean it is true; sometimes people say things that are really dumb. Now, there's a difference for me\u2014saying that person is dumb [instead of] what they said was dumb\u2014and these are the kinds of distinctions that are important. But yeah, sure; I vented to my wife; and then, apologized. I'm not venting about her; it's about something else. But sometimes, you just got to get it off your chest; but then, it's worth: \u201cOkay, why was that on my chest? Why is that in my heart? Is there deeper issues maybe that I need to wrestle with?\u201d\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: And I think, too\u2014\r\n\r\nSean:\u2014would be the question. \r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014when I've done that, too, I'm convicted by the Holy Spirit to come back\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014or by me.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014of: \u201cHow should we talk?\u201d and \u201cWhat should our speech be like?\u201d\r\n\r\nTim: Can I make a spiritual point? I think it's okay to vent to God.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes!\r\n\r\nTim: I see it in the Psalms. I see some amazing venting that is borderline: \u201cGod, where were You?! You were asleep when this was happening\u2014the armies of Israel got slaughtered\u2014and where were You?!\u201d God can handle that.\r\n\r\nSean:Those are complaint Psalms, right?\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah, yeah.\r\n\r\nSean:Some of the largest\u2014not the largest group\u2014of all the Psalms are complaint Psalms and prayers that are really honest.\r\n\r\nTim: Yeah! I want to have a place for that.\r\n\r\nDave:And I would just add\u2014this is a whole other topic; and we're out of time\u2014so we can't develop it. But I think you're going to agree with this. The post-talk\u2014and this happens a lot in the church world\u2014as a pastor for 30 plus years, I watched this happen. I don't think church people\/Christians are very good at this. We want to be graceful and tender. And so, when I have a problem with Tim, often in church world, instead of going to Tim, I'll go\u2014I\u2019m saying, \u201cAnn,\u201d\u2014but I\u2019ll go to a friend. or another staff member on this church staff. We'll shut the door, and we'll both talk about Tim. \r\n\r\nAnd sometimes, we'll even say, \u201cWe need to pray for Tim.\u201d And it's like a prayer\u2014it's spiritual\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014gossip.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014but it never gets to Tim. And we even had a policy on our church staff, in the early days: \u201cIf you come in, and you bring up some other staff member, we're stopping it right then.\u201d I'm saying, \u201cGo get them; let's all talk.\u201d They're not allowed to do this [spiritual gossip]. We call it first-person communication [that\u2019s] got to happen. That happened in our church staff, with a couple hundred staff, for twenty-some years.\r\n\r\nTim: Was it positive? Did people receive that? \r\n\r\nDave:It was awesome; it was hard, because people don't do that. But it was like I, literally, put my hand up\u2014like: \u201cGo get Joe,\u201d \u201cNo, no, no,\u201d \u201cGo get him! We're not going to talk about Joe without Joe here. Maybe, you two are going to talk, and I'm going to help you; but we're not having this conversation [without him].\u201d It was really healthy. \r\n\r\nI'm afraid to have that really hard conversation with somebody, so I'll go have it with somebody else. That's what you're saying\u2014that's that post-[talk]\u2014and it's my in-group, and they're going to agree with me. And next thing you know, you now have disunity.\r\n\r\nTim: And it's okay to get counsel. It's okay to sit down and say, \u201cI'm going to talk to Sean. I really do want to, but I don't know how to do it.\u201d It\u2019s totally different than me just saying things about Sean, with no intention of ever going to see him. I do think godly counsel would be good in certain situations.\r\n\r\nAnn: And if the holidays come, and you say some things\u2014because the bear was poked\u2014that you shouldn't have said, it might be a great idea to make a call to have a conversation, and just say, \u201cHey, I'm so sorry; I just blew up. I didn't mean to, and I hope that doesn't reflect how much I love you. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, and please forgive me.\u201d I think that that always goes a long way, even as you guys have both demonstrated.\r\n\r\nDave:Thanks for modeling for us. You even differ on different things, and you love each other, and you've revealed to the whole world: \u201cThis is how you do it, Christlike.\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: I love what Ann said there at the end of our time today. Who hasn't said something that they regret at some point in a heated conversation? Well, maybe the goal isn't always to say everything 100 percent correctly; but instead, maybe to just apologize when you make a mistake. I found that apologizing, when I've messed up, goes a long way with both adults and kids. So let's make a habit of doing that this coming holiday season. \r\n\r\nI'm Shelby Abbott; and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Tim Muehlhoff and Sean McDowell, on FamilyLife Today. Tim and Sean have written a book called End the Stalemate: Move Past  Cancel Culture to Meaningful Conversations. You can get your copy, right now, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you could click on the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word,  TODAY. \r\n\r\nWe've talked about this today, and the last two days, but many of us are just tired of the tension and division that exists between our family, and our friends, and on social media. And while we read things in the Bible, like Psalm 1:33, that tells us it's good for believers to dwell in unity with one another, we just don't see that very often in today's easily-angered and often-offended culture. \r\n\r\nSo that's why I'm really excited to invite you to join us, here, at FamilyLife for a five-week video series from our friend\u2014author and comedian\u2014Amberly Neese. It's called \u201cMoving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World.\u201d In it, Amberly guides us on how to build peace with those who are closest to us when our differing thoughts, and opinions, and beliefs threaten to create division. You could sign up for this five-week video series for free by clicking on the link in the show notes, or going to FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround. Again, you can find it in the show notes, or head over to FamilyLife.com\/FindingCommonGround. \r\n\r\nAre your kids college-ready? Well, Michael Kruger, author of Surviving Religion 101, examines how to prep teens for surviving their future religion classes and keep the faith at the same time. He'll be here with us tomorrow; we hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nIf you\u2019ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife.com                                 \r\n\r\n\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/309870","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=309870"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/309871"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=309870"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=309870"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=309870"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=309870"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=309870"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=309870"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}