{"id":307946,"date":"2024-01-04T10:15:00","date_gmt":"2024-01-04T15:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/new-year-new-us-2\/"},"modified":"2025-01-08T15:54:40","modified_gmt":"2025-01-08T20:54:40","slug":"new-year-new-us-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/new-year-new-us-2\/","title":{"rendered":"New Year, New &#8220;Us&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Today we tried something a little different! Our FamilyLife Today hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson are interviewed by the creators of FamilyLife&#8217;s new Art of Marriage small group resource, Brian Goins and Ed Uszynski. Listen as they share tips on how couples can grow together, get more honest, and choose other practical steps to kickstart a stronger year together.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave and Ann Wilson share tips on how to grow together, get more honest, and choose other practical steps to kickstart a stronger year together.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-04.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:18","filesize":"38.86M","filesize_raw":"40745188","date_recorded":"2024-01-04 10:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2082,2902,2862],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8719],"cwp_profile":[3274,3547],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307946","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-communication","category-resolving-conflict","category-understanding-differences","podcast_series-new-year-new-us-brian-goins-ed-uszynski","cwp_profile-brian-goins","cwp_profile-ed-uszynski","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307946\/new-year-new-us-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307946\/new-year-new-us-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"leqddcnDND\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/new-year-new-us-2\/\">New Year, New &#8220;Us&#8221;<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/new-year-new-us-2\/embed\/#?secret=leqddcnDND\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;New Year, New &#8220;Us&#8221;&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"leqddcnDND\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Dave and Ann Wilson share tips on how to grow together, get more honest, and choose other practical steps to kickstart a stronger year together.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p><strong>Show Notes and Resources<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Listen to the \"\"<a href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/1459310515\">Married with Benefits<\/a>\"\" podcast<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/art-of-marriage-kit\/\">Tune into the \"\"Art of Marriage\"\" series for listeners interested in exploring the reimagined project.<\/a> The Art of Marriage weaves together expert teaching, real-life stories, humorous vignettes, and more to portray both the challenges and the beauty of God's design.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/january-2024\/you-can-be-a-source-of-hope\/?cru_source=24EGPCandcru_medium=podcastandcru_campaign=January2024\">Give a gift today to help FamilyLife to give hope to more families<\/a>.<br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Hey, this is Shelby Abbott. I just wanted to take a second to thank you if you gave to our matching program that happened in December. You know, checks are still coming in; and we don\u2019t have all the numbers yet; but if you gave, I sincerely want to say how grateful I am for your generosity to help make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible. Thank you so much for giving and supporting this ministry. And even if you didn\u2019t give, and you\u2019ve just shared episodes with someone, or even if you just <em>listen<\/em>, thank you for being a part of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, let\u2019s go jump into today\u2019s episode.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>There are those moments that God allows us to build<em>. <\/em>He could have stopped you at any moment in your disobedience: He could have brought somebody into your life; He could have shaken you to the core; He could have<em>\u2014<\/em>but He let that <em>build<\/em>. Why? Because He knew there was a longer trajectory for what that story would tell.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Alright, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, it\u2019s an exciting day. We\u2019ve got a couple guys we love in the studio.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>We <em>love<\/em> these guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Do you love them? I mean, maybe we\u2019re overexaggerating.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes! And we <em>love<\/em> their <em>wives<\/em>. We think they\u2019re pretty\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s what you really love.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I love <em>these guys<\/em>, too. They\u2019re remarkable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. Brian Goins, Ed Uszynsk\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014Uszynski?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>How do you pronounce [tongue tied while trying to pronounce his name]. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Blaming it on my name.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>You\u2019ve got to own this one, man. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m sorry. They\u2019re going to edit that out. It will never see the light of day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>It might be the best part of the whole show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Hey, how many kids? How long have you guys been married?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Twenty-four years; Amy and I just celebrated 24 on October 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. And we have <em>four<\/em> kids: 23, 20, 18, and 12.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, nice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Twenty-seven years\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>--oohhh!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u2014topped you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Even though I\u2019m much younger. [Laughter] And we have <em>three <\/em>kids: 23, 20 (about to be 21), and 15. Yes, so we\u2019ve still got work cut out; we\u2019ve got tail ends that are holding us back from that empty nest stage that you guys get to do now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Are you guys looking forward to the empty nest?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Oh, man!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Nnnnnno.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>You\u2019re not?!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>No, I\u2019m not, man. I\u2019m really not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Ohh.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting: I <em>love<\/em> having our kids be a part of what we\u2019re doing; I really do. I\u2019ll <em>miss<\/em> it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Some of our guests know your voice, Brian, because they\u2019ve heard you and Shaunti together on your podcast. Tell us what the podcast is. How long have you been doing that with Shaunti?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s <em>Married with Benefits<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s <em>so <\/em>good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>It\u2019s a bit sporadic. [Laughter] We have more of a <em>seasonal<\/em> approach to ours. Although those seasons happen to be separated by a few years, maybe. I don\u2019t know if we even planned all this, but \u201cQuestions Every Wife Is Asking\u201d is Season 1; \u201cQuestions Every Husband Is Asking,\u201d because husbands felt left out, is Season 2; and then, \u201cQuestions Every Couple Is Asking about Sex.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You two have also been working on quite a project for several years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>They\u2019ve had a <em>couple<\/em> projects, actually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s right: <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>revised, reimagined.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, we got to be a part of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>And then, the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> [revised].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Is that what we\u2019re talking about today? We\u2019re going to talk a little <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>; what do you think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>was fun to do, because we got to interview people like <em>you<\/em>, you know? It was just an <em>incredible<\/em> two-year experience. It just took us two years to put together. [Laughter] Just two years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, no big deal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I can\u2019t\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You deserve a break.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I can\u2019t wait for listeners all over the world to download this; to go through it\u2014to go through it as small group material\u2014I\u2019m <em>glad <\/em>that it is on RightNow Media, because they have <em>so many<\/em> people who will go through it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, they do; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And it is <em>good<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes. Well, tell us about that, because we got to interview <em>you<\/em>. You\u2019ve seen some of the sessions; you\u2019ve seen some of the clips. What excites <em>you<\/em> about the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019m a woman, so, of course, I\u2019m going to say this: in the original <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>, it was phenomenal as well, but with this <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>, the majority\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u2014are couples.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014are couples. I like hearing the wife\u2019s voice; her perspective; what\u2019s going on. I like that it\u2019s diverse in a lot of different ways\u2014diverse in age, diverse in race. So, I feel like there is something for everyone. I like it. I love it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>My first thought is: it\u2019s a different day, culture-wise today, than it was\u2014what was it, 20 years ago?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>2011, so about 11 or 12 years ago; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, the presenters are very vulnerable and raw. From the word, \u201cGo,\u201d they\u2019re sharing weakness and struggle as well as victory and identity in Christ. I\u2019m not saying the first one didn\u2019t do that; but in that day, that wasn\u2019t commonplace. A generation almost pushed back from that. Now, we have a generation who won\u2019t listen to you unless you are somebody they can relate to with the struggle. You guys captured that. These are people, [where] you are going, \u201cWhoa!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>The first one was <em>so <\/em>good; it was pioneering in so many different ways. When they asked us and entrusted us with this mission of: \u201cWe want you to re-imagine this thing, because so many guides are wearing it out,\u201d\u2014wearing out the DVDs, wearing out the videos. [Laughter] They were like, \u201cWe need something\u2014it needs to be updated.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>In terms of how God used that first one: when we were asked to speak at the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> cruise the first time, there were guys <em>quoting<\/em>: \u201cYou said your marriage is 9.8\u2026!\u201d They were quoting what we said. Everybody!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was like, \u201cWow! God has used this tool all around the world.\u201d It was fascinating to see, \u201cWow, God really is using it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Whatever you have <em>planned<\/em> for this interview\u2014I don\u2019t know what you guys planned. We\u2019re taking over.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, no, no; we\u2019re the hosts.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>No, no, no.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes! I\u2019m going to <em>let <\/em>them take over. Let\u2019s not even <em>think<\/em> about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>It\u2019s just Brian and Ed. This is Brian and Ed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s because you don\u2019t know Brian.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: \u201c<\/strong>The Brian and Ed Show!\u201d Cheers to you! Whoo!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, yes; \u201cThe Bred Show.\u201d We\u2019re taking over.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>We\u2019re toasting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Alright, alright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yay!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You don\u2019t know these guys like I know them. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Are you afraid?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Probably a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Pass me the guitar, because we\u2019ve got\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s right; are you going to sing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, Ed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Because somebody\u2019s got to <em>sing<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Maybe at the end.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Why don\u2019t you sing something?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>If people hang in there, they can hear me at the end.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Sure, you\u2019re up!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>You\u2019re an audiophile; you <em>love<\/em> music. You can quote\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>I love<em> listening<\/em> to music. I don\u2019t sing into microphones.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, yes; no.<\/p>\n<p>When we think about\u2014you guys do such a good job of this\u2014<\/p>\n<p>It was so fun having your story in the first <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>; but in this new version, we\u2019ve got you more of a voice, a consistent voice. I think they show up in every\u2014I think about every episode\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u2014pretty much\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u2014every session.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>But the thing that we <em>love<\/em> about you, and I think the reason why people love the show so much, is just that you guys are real and vulnerable. You lead with authenticity. I have so many people come up to me, at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>or when we\u2019re traveling (Jen and I are traveling), and say, \u201cDo you know Dave and Ann Wilson? I feel like I know them. I feel like they\u2019re my best friends.\u201d [Laughter] Even as we\u2019re sitting at this table\u2014beautiful table that Jim Mitchell built, the producer of\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Shout out to Jim Mitchell.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Shout out to Jim Mitchell.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Shout out! This table is <em>spectacular<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>It is <em>gorgeous<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>It really is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong><em>People<\/em> feel like they are in these two seats right here, that are empty right now. They feel like they\u2019re <em>at the table<\/em> with Dave and Ann, and that\u2019s how they show up in the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>They do, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>So, we\u2019ve got some questions. This is from the people! The people have commissioned us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>The people. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>The people?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>We\u2019re representing the people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, we\u2019re representing the people who just want to [say], \u201cWhat could we ask them what no one else has asked them?\u201d That is what our charge is: the things that most people would like to ask you guys if they could.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Do we really believe this is really from the people?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>This is from the people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>So, besides <em>us<\/em>, favorite guests?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, besides you guys?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, you guys, hands <em>down<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Number 2; who would be Number 2?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, who would be Number 2?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s a <em>long <\/em>drop, but\u2014I don\u2019t know who you\u2019re thinking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I know who <em>you\u2019re <\/em>thinking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Tell me whom I\u2019m thinking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think you\u2019ll think of Philip Yancey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, I\u2019m thinking of Philip Yancey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Aww.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Is that what you were going to say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>And some of it is because he was recent, months ago.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I <em>loved<\/em> him, too, because he shared his memoir: the story of his life. I think we all know the name, Philip Yancey. We know what he has written about, but to hear where he <em>came<\/em> from\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014whoo!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes, yes. I just finished it. It\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em>, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s good, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s <em>shocking<\/em> in some ways.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>But I think I resonated, because he\u2019s almost like a hero.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Because I never knew him, but I read <em>Disappointment with God <\/em>early in my Christian walk. I\u2019d never heard anybody say those things out loud, like, \u201cI\u2019m disappointed with God.\u201d You\u2019re not allowed to say that! Whether you think it or not, you just keep it to yourself; and he <em>voiced<\/em> it and said, \u201cThat\u2019s common, and here is why\u2026\u201d That book, in some ways, changed my life.<\/p>\n<p>To have him, sitting right there,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u2014wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014was pretty cool. It was almost as good as having Paul McCartney in the room, [Laughter] but not quite that good. My <em>real<\/em> hero in life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>I\u2019m sure he\u2019s not going to hear that. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Putting that duet together\u2014that mash-up: Paul McCartney\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u2014Yancey-McCartney. Duets by Yancey-McCartney. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: \u201c<\/strong>That book changed my life.\u201d That\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Ann, anybody else from you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think my favorite interview was actually Ron and Nan Deal. You know, Ron leads our blended ministry, and when they shared their story of Nan\u2019s addiction, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever been in an interview that felt more <em>holy<\/em>. It also felt like all the credit went to Jesus. It was one of the most vulnerable, because Ron is well-known. He\u2019s written a lot of books; he has an <em>amazing<\/em> ministry. For them to come on and say, \u201cHey, this happened,\u201d not 20 years ago, but in the last few years. Whew! They had a lot of courage to bring that about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>We could go on and on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Even mentioning those two\u2014I mean, Yancey tells the <em>truth<\/em> in the way he writes. He\u2019s <em>vulnerable<\/em> about what\u2019s behind the curtain.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave and Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Ron and Nan are <em>super<\/em> vulnerable. they are just telling the truth about painful things. You guys are known for telling the truth. That\u2019s what we just said: people feel like you\u2019re being vulnerable and telling the truth. What motivates you to do that?<\/p>\n<p>I mean, [if] you put yourself out there, you\u2019re going to get <em>hurt<\/em>! People may <em>reject<\/em> you\u2014we\u2019ve been talking about that, just different ways that maybe people haven\u2019t received that well. What motivates you to keep being those kind of people behind the mic?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I shared this the other day, but it brought back memories of going to seminary\u2014when we went to seminary. He was the president, actually, of the seminary, Don Weaver, and his wife, Lois. They were great. They took us under their wings\u2014we were only 22 and 25. They said, \u201cWe want you to not only be mentors, but we want to bring you into our family and our extended family, because we have a small group we have been meeting with for several years. They are people in the neighborhood, people in our community.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, it was a privilege. We didn\u2019t know it, but Don and Lois picked <em>one couple<\/em> out of the school each year. We got to be that couple.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Wow, that\u2019s cool.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Part of that was: \u201cCome to our home every Thursday night. We\u2019ll have dinner and be in our small group.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>You guys, you know, we\u2019re <em>na\u00efve<\/em>; we know <em>nothing<\/em>! We haven\u2019t been Christians very long. We\u2019re trying to do it right and perfectly. We walked in there: \u201cThis is <em>great<\/em>!\u201d They pray. So, Don\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, everybody, let\u2019s just kind of go around and tell us how your week was.\u201d I\u2019m [thinking], \u201cThis is cool. They\u2019re going to talk about Jesus and what God\u2019s showing them in the Bible.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>First person: \u201cI smoked pot all week.\u201d [Laughter] I\u2019m [thinking], \u201cOh, my goodness; where are we?!\u201d You guys, this is back in the \u201880s!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>We are hitting each other under the table, like\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014like, \u201cWhat\u2019s happening?!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And another couple is like, \u201cWe <em>hate<\/em> each other. Our marriage is <em>horrible<\/em>!\u201d [Laughter] And so each\u2014and then, there is girl who\u2019s 21; she goes, \u201cWell, I\u2019m really struggling with my multiple personalities. You guys all know I was possessed.\u201d [We\u2019re thinking]: \u201cAre we just like\u2014?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Okay, \u201cWelcome to the <em>group<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Are you getting pranked right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u201cIs this a set-up?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>What did you guys share?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019re like, [embarrassed voice] \u201cWe yelled at each other.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>We got in the car, and I told Dave, \u201cI don\u2019t even know what just happened,\u201d but it was the most appealing thing. I had <em>never <\/em>heard people be so honest, so <em>raw<\/em>. They just let us all in. I think, once you taste that vulnerability, you can never go back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>At the same time, we journeyed with them for <em>months<\/em>\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Really, more than a year\u2014maybe, two years\u2014and you saw transformation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, you saw real honesty, and you saw growth. That growth probably doesn\u2019t happen when you\u2019re in an environment where they feel safe to be honest.<\/p>\n<p>We had <em>never<\/em> seen that in the church. I grew up with a single mom taking me to church. I wasn\u2019t a believer. I sort of thought it was a joke. And then, when I graduated high school and went to college to play football, I literally said to my mom, \u201cI\u2019m never going to church again.\u201d And I never did. I just saw church as perfect people who are <em>fake<\/em> and never share struggles.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I <em>never<\/em> once, ever, met a person in church who ever said anything but, \u201cJesus is good,\u201d \u201cGod is good,\u201d \u201cMy marriage is\u2026\u201d It was all\u2014and I <em>knew<\/em> this couldn\u2019t be real.<\/p>\n<p>Obviously, there\u2019s a great turn to that story, because I came to Christ in college. I remember thinking, as we started a church, \u201cThis is going to be a safe community, where people are honest.\u201d I always want two things to happen in a Dave Wilson sermon, and the same thing in a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> broadcast\u2014two things: one is, I want somebody listening to [say], \u201cWow! They struggle with the same things we struggle with. It\u2019s like they were in our family room this week. They had the <em>same <\/em>fight we had!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s only the half of it, because that could be the end of it. The other half is, I also want them to [say], \u201cThey know the Holy Spirit, and the power of God and the resurrection, in a way I don\u2019t think I know. They have this struggle, but they have victory.\u201d I hope that happens <em>every single<\/em> program, every single sermon; both that they\u2019re <em>drawn<\/em>\u2014they connect\u2014because they\u2019re like you, but they are also <em>drawn<\/em> to the God that they may not know the way you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>What is it about vulnerability that creates growth? Talk about that, because you guys have said that in a bunch of different ways. How does growth happen when people tell the truth with each other?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think Jesus <em>most<\/em> meets us in our pain. I mean, we want victory; we <em>want <\/em>the good life and not to experience pain, but in pain is where we <em>feel<\/em>\u2014actually, we feel two things, which is what Yancey is getting at: we feel disappointment, and He\u2019s distant, and He\u2019s silent, and He\u2019s hidden; and yet, He\u2019s also <em>so <\/em>present. We\u2019re so needy in that moment that we are desperate, and we feel Him. I think the people who are listening to us are <em>feeling<\/em> that. They want both sides of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Even as you are saying that, I was just thinking of Paul\u2019s phrase [Philippians 3:10], where he says to \u201c\u2026 join Him in the fellowship of His sufferings.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>There it is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, Philippians 3.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Just think, that\u2019s a <em>weird<\/em> combination of words.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to fellowship, and not with just Jesus, but with other fellow believers in suffering.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong><em>And<\/em>\u2014in the same verse: \u201c\u2026in the power of His resurrection.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u201c\u2026the power of His resurrection.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, there\u2019s <em>both<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I always [think]: \u201cI want the power of the resurrection!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Who doesn\u2019t want that? But we run away from fellowship of sufferings, but it\u2019s both\/and.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Some people today are all about authenticity and fellowship of suffering\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u2014but they don\u2019t necessarily turn to the <em>cross<\/em> to get the healing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian and Dave: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>So, we do need <em>both<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Ann, what were you going to say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to say, I\u2019m a visual person. So, the way I see it is: if you want to get a suntan, you go out into the sun. But if you have a mask on your face, you might get sun on your face; but you have a mask on, [so] the sun can\u2019t penetrate. The moment you take off the mask, the sun can shine in. It can bring growth; it can bring healing; it can bring a suntan. The sun is <em>Jesus<\/em>. When somebody takes off their mask in front of me\u2014whew!\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cThere you are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019ll tell you who took off their mask in front of [Him]: <em>everybody<\/em> took off their mask in front of Jesus. <em>Why<\/em>? Because He <em>saw<\/em> all of them, and He loved every piece of them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s <em>compelling<\/em>. It\u2019s not that we just let people sit there and go down into the deep, dark pit of despair, but we give them the hope of the gospel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s a good word picture.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>It is. I know I\u2019m going to preach <em>that<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>I like that. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>I\u2019m <em>stealing<\/em> that!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>That mask!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>I\u2019m taking that. I\u2019m going to use that at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> this weekend in Pittsburgh.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes, I really like that. [Laughter] Can\u2019t wait to use that, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong><em>She<\/em> is the visual queen. You\u2019ve seen the tandem bike and all her things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed:<\/strong> I <em>love <\/em>that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>The last thought on that is, you know, I think I\u2019ve said this sometime this week; we\u2019ve done quite a few\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u2014we\u2019ve done so <em>much<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Ann and I are sitting in this studio right now, as the hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, because of the most painful moment in our marriage. If that hadn\u2019t been on the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014and it wouldn\u2019t had been on there unless Bob Lepine said, \u201cHey, I know this story. Would you be willing to tell it?\u201d Part of me is [thinking], \u201cNo! I don\u2019t want to tell it. It\u2019s a <em>bad <\/em>moment, and I was an <em>idiot<\/em>!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cI\u2019ll just keep that.\u201d But because of that, God [says], \u201cWatch this! I\u2019m going to take that moment and make it your story that connects to all these other people, who sit there and say, \u2018I\u2019m the same way. I think our marriage is a 10, and it\u2019s really a 2.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>And \u2018How in the world can that couple be saying that when we\u2019re\u2026?\u2019\u201d So, yes; it\u2019s the thing that connects people to people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>I know most people have probably heard that story, but for those who haven\u2019t, it is the story about how, ten years into your marriage, Ann, you said, \u201cI\u2019ve lost my feelings for you.\u201d It was that moment of\u2014especially, Dave\u2014\u201cWhat do <em>you<\/em> do in that moment?\u201d What did you <em>feel<\/em>? What did you do with that? Because I think my reaction\u2014I would have such a <em>reaction<\/em>! I would want to <em>react<\/em> to that statement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Get defensive.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Get defensive; get angry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>He had for two years. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>He had for two years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was waiting for her to jump in. I knew she was going to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>So, you said that <em>multiple<\/em> times. It wasn\u2019t just once.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>But Brian, the way I said it was <em>mean<\/em> [during those two years].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cOh, you\u2019re gone <em>again<\/em>? Seriously, do we even <em>know<\/em> who you are anymore? The kids <em>don\u2019t<\/em> know who you are! I <em>don\u2019t<\/em>.\u201d Isn\u2019t that so warm\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u2014and inviting?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and inviting?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>It <em>makes<\/em> me want to change. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>It pushes me to sanctification. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u201cThank you, honey. May I have another?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>[Sarcastically] <em>Right<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, I mean, as you can imagine, I couldn\u2019t hear it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> hear it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Who would <em>want<\/em> to hear that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I remember getting in our little car, as she\u2019s yelling at me, walking out the driveway with kids in her arms, another one dragging on the floor\u2014not on the floor\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u2014floor? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> Wow! What does she do with her kids?! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>But I can remember getting in the car, driving out of our subdivision, just <em>screaming<\/em> mad\u2014so mad at her; so mad at my life\u2014and I\u2019m going to <em>lead<\/em> a Bible study. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Between that driveway and the meeting, I\u2019ve got to get right with God. And then, I come home to this again, and here we are. I\u2019m getting yelled at. So, that night, when she said it, it was a miracle, because it was the <em>first<\/em> time I think I really <em>heard<\/em> it. I didn\u2019t get defensive.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I didn\u2019t say it in a mean way. I just spoke the truth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It was\u2014you could <em>feel <\/em>the finality in her voice. It was like, \u201cI\u2019ve said this. You haven\u2019t heard it, but I\u2019ve lost my feelings for you.\u201d I could [tell] that she was <em>done<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>But I was also saying, \u201cI\u2019m <em>done<\/em>.I\u2019m <em>done<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>She was <em>done<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>What do you think happened that night that you were able to hear it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes, <em>why<\/em> were you able to hear it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Was something, circumstantially, going on with <em>you<\/em> or just\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think it was a supernatural move of God, because I heard the voice of God. It was very loud and clear, not audible, but a Holy Spirit nudge of, \u201cRepent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cThis is <em>not<\/em> her problem. This is <em>yours<\/em>. And it isn\u2019t even horizontal. This is you and Me.\u201d It\u2019s one of those moments where, as a man, you know, \u201cThis is true. I am <em>not <\/em>close to Jesus.\u201d It\u2019s almost like I\u2019m lukewarm. It wasn\u2019t that I had lost my salvation. I wasn\u2019t in moral sin. It was just an apathetic: \u201cI\u2019m busy.\u201d And it\u2019s all God-work; it\u2019s ministry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that interesting? Yes, and people can\u2014I hope people are hearing: \u201cPut whatever situation you want to put in there.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Anybody in Christian ministry\u2014or whatever business, whatever job you have\u2014can become monotonous and become mundane.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>So, just because you\u2019re doing <em>the Lord\u2019s work<\/em> doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re in the Lord\u2019s will.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right, right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Or in the Lord\u2019s favor. I mean, you\u2019re in His favor, but you may not be <em>favorable<\/em> toward God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>But you just got to keep working and keep doing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, you guys probably know this: you can sort of fake it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong><em>Anybody<\/em> can fake it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You can fake the Christian walk, but you know what? You <em>can\u2019t <\/em>in your marriage. It will eventually come out, and it came out.<\/p>\n<p>The long and good part of the story is, it was about me and God. I <em>knew, <\/em>\u201cIf I get right with God, that\u2019s step 1. Step 2 will be, He will help us do the horizontal part; get our marriage better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting, Dave, as I think back on those days where you would get super defensive, I think that\u2019s one of your greatest strengths now, in terms of\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014getting defensive?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Yes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014of receiving. There\u2019s a humbleness in you. If I say something to you, you might be mad when I say it, but you\u2019ll think on it, you\u2019ll pray about it, and you won\u2019t say anything (which I wish I could be like that), and then, you\u2019ll come back and talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>When I\u2019ve heard the boys come to you, as men, saying: \u201cDad, you really dropped the ball here,\u201d or \u201cDad, you really hurt me here,\u201d you are <em>never <\/em>defensive. Even when one of our sons told you our church is <em>dead<\/em>, and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, boy! This is going to be interesting,\u201d [because] you <em>started<\/em> the church, you <em>leaned<\/em> in and you said, \u201cTell me more.\u201d <em>That<\/em> is a <em>great<\/em> quality, man.<\/p>\n<p>You might feel like you had <em>failed<\/em> on that ten-year anniversary, but you have <em>grown<\/em> so much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Gee whiz, this is\u2014I <em>like<\/em> this show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>This is <em>great<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Can we just keep going? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Well, you just keep telling me more about <em>that<\/em>. When I think about\u2014there are those moments that God allows us to build<em>. <\/em>He could have stopped you at any moment in your disobedience. He could have brought somebody into your life; He could have shaken you to the core; He could have done<em>\u2014<\/em>but He let that <em>build<\/em>. Why? Because He knew there was a longer trajectory that story would take.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Interesting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>So, even allowing us to go against each other for so long; but then, to bring you back. And in that moment, you chose repentance rather than defensiveness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>I just think of how many people are out there right now, thinking: \u201cI might be in that moment right now. Maybe I\u2019m in that moment with <em>my <\/em>spouse.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u201cMaybe it\u2019s time.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>\u201cMaybe it\u2019s time. Maybe it\u2019s time.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That moment not only changed the trajectory of your marriage, but because it was captured, and because you guys were open and honest enough to allow yourselves to be vulnerable, it <em>seriously<\/em> has touched <em>millions<\/em> of people. It\u2019s been translated into, now, 17 languages, in the original <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>. I just say, thank you for allowing God to use that story in ways that you <em>never<\/em> imagined or thought.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Yes, and telling the truth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>You don\u2019t think of that at the moment you\u2019re apologizing. You\u2019re [not] like, \u201cOh, I can\u2019t <em>wait<\/em> for God to use <em>this<\/em> story.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, you bet!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>You just want to get beyond the <em>moment<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u201c<em>Millions<\/em> need this. <em>Millions<\/em> need to hear this story.\u201d Yes, you\u2019re not thinking that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>You\u2019re not thinking that. You\u2019re like, \u201cHow do [we] just come back together?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>\u201cI\u2019m a jerk. I don\u2019t want to be a jerk anymore.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Hey, guys! You\u2019re <em>good<\/em> at this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Well, if we\u2019re good, we\u2019d like to go another day. Do you want to go another day?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Let\u2019s <em>do<\/em> it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Is it alright if we go one more day?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>Let\u2019s do one more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Alright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>Are you open to that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>As long as you let me be in control.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong><em>No<\/em>, no; because here\u2019s what I want to ask, because I think this is important. [Laughter] I want to ask tomorrow\u2014I want to start off, because it\u2019s like you had that moment of not liking each other for a <em>couple of years<\/em> that you weren\u2019t liking each other.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, it took a while.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>I\u2019m curious to know if you\u2019ve had any more similar things, where you have seasons of not liking each other. Because I think a lot of couples go through that: \u201cHow do we get out of not liking each other?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Doesn\u2019t <em>every<\/em> couple go through it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ed: <\/strong>I think so. [Laughter] I really do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Shout out to Amy!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>At least, Amy does.<\/p>\n<p><em>Amy<\/em> does. I don\u2019t know about Ed. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Brian Goins and Ed Uszynski on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I love this conversation. They\u2019ve got such great banter there. Be sure to check out Brian Goin\u2019s podcast, <em>Married with Benefits<\/em>. It will be found in the show notes on FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Have you picked out what small group study your group will be using this upcoming spring? Or do you need a way to re-connect with your spouse or your couple friends? Are couples in your church asking you for<em> help <\/em>in their marriages? These are common questions. I\u2019m excited to personally deliver the news to you that the all-new <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> is officially here.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s right! It features a diverse array of new couples and artists who, over the course of six different sessions, unpack six biblical words that describe God\u2019s love for us and how each can be displayed through our messy, imperfect marriages. Yes, even <em>yours<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>So, whether you\u2019re a newlywed, or you\u2019ve been married for decades, FamilyLife\u2019s <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>is your path to a stronger, more beautiful masterpiece of God\u2019s handiwork. You can go to the show notes or ArtofMarriage.com to learn more and order your leader kit. We\u2019re excited to share the all-new <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> with you.<\/p>\n<p>Coming up tomorrow, we wanted more. They said they were going to give us more, so it\u2019s going to happen. We\u2019re going to explore the challenges in marriages and the power of <em>non<\/em>-sexual touch and honest communication with Brian Goins and Ed Uszynski with Dave and Ann Wilson tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2024 FamilyLife. 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