{"id":307944,"date":"2024-01-02T10:15:00","date_gmt":"2024-01-02T15:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/is-my-kids-faith-their-own-justin-brierley-2\/"},"modified":"2025-05-14T16:06:35","modified_gmt":"2025-05-14T20:06:35","slug":"is-my-kids-faith-their-own-justin-brierley-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-my-kids-faith-their-own-justin-brierley-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Is My Kids&#8217; Faith Their Own? Justin Brierley"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How much should Christian parents protect their kids? Justin Brierley, a parent himself, provides tips on how to equip both us and our kids to confidently tackle tough questions about faith. Turning everyday conversations into faith-building moments!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How much should Christian parents protect their kids? Justin Brierley, a parent, shares tips on equipping us and our kids to face tough faith questions. Turn conversations into faith-building moments!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-02.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:39","filesize":"40.72M","filesize_raw":"42698106","date_recorded":"2024-01-02 10:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2834,2806,2855,2870,2881],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8718],"cwp_profile":[9820],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307944","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-praying-for-your-children","category-spiritual-development","category-teens","category-tweens","category-young-children","podcast_series-the-conversation-youre-avoiding-justin-brierley","cwp_profile-justin-brierley","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307944\/is-my-kids-faith-their-own-justin-brierley-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307944\/is-my-kids-faith-their-own-justin-brierley-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"MQmhscV107\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-my-kids-faith-their-own-justin-brierley-2\/\">Is My Kids&#8217; Faith Their Own? Justin Brierley<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-my-kids-faith-their-own-justin-brierley-2\/embed\/#?secret=MQmhscV107\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Is My Kids&#8217; Faith Their Own? Justin Brierley&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"MQmhscV107\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"How much should Christian parents protect their kids? Justin Brierley, a parent, shares tips on equipping us and our kids to face tough faith questions. Turn conversations into faith-building moments!","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p><strong>Show Notes and Resources<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Connect with Justin Brierley on his website: <a href=\"https:\/\/justinbrierley.com\/\">justinbrierley.com<\/a> or listen to his podcasts: <a href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/1682867001\">Re-Enchanting podcast<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/267142101\">Unbelievable<\/a><br \/>And grab Justin Brierley's book,<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/the-surprising-rebirth-of-belief-in-god-why-new-atheism-grew-old-and-secular-thinkers-are-considering-christianity-again\">The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God in our shop<\/a><br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/january-2024\/you-can-be-a-source-of-hope\/?cru_source=24EGPCandcru_medium=podcastandcru_campaign=January2024\">Give a gift today to help FamilyLife to give hope to more families<\/a>.<br \/>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-02.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I have the opportunity to talk to a lot of moms. I\u2019m hearing more often than ever conversations at the dinner table that are freaking moms out, because their kids are asking more and more questions about faith. They are watching more and more social media that\u2019s contrasting their faith, and going against their faith, and even their moral beliefs. They\u2019re asking me, \u201cHow do I answer some of these questions, especially questions that I don\u2019t even know the answers to about apologetics?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think those are real, valid questions that our kids have. We, as parents, want to answer some of those questions, but we\u2019re not always sure where to go with it; and who can we <em>trust<\/em> with reliable answers from Scripture?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s a good set-up for who we\u2019ve got in the studio today: somebody we can trust\u2014[Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014exactly!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014to help parents, especially in homes with\u2014I think, there is an <em>angst<\/em> in a lot of Christian parents\u2019 soul about what they\u2019re seeing in the culture; and then, they\u2019re seeing in their own family room. Because their own sons and daughters, as teenagers, are walking away from something they\u2019ve tried to instill in them their whole life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Justin Brierley is <em>back<\/em>. [Laughter] He\u2019s going to help us\u2014and he\u2019s a <em>dad<\/em>\u2014I mean, you\u2019re\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014with <em>four<\/em> kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014a parent. How many years have you been married?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Yes; well, now you\u2019re asking. [Laughter] 21 years it will be this year, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You\u2019re one of the world\u2019s foremost thinkers who helps, not just parents, but all of us understand\u2014Ann used the term, apologetics, which is the defense of the faith\u2014understanding thinking. You can help a lot of parents in homes. I love your new book, <em>The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>I think a lot of parents think, \u201cThere\u2019s no belief in God. It\u2019s going <em>away<\/em>, not rebirthing.\u201d Where do we start as parents?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Where do you start? I just want to, first of all, sympathize with parents, because it is that much harder. Maybe a generation ago, if you were a Christian parent, especially, you could sort of raise your kids in a bit of a bubble, I would say.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, it <em>is<\/em> that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>A Christian bubble.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>And you <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> have to contend with <em>constant<\/em> skepticism coming through their<\/p>\n<p>iPhone<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or whatever. I just think a lot of us are having to learn as we go along how to live and be faithful in this technological age we live in. I think some of the lessons that are helpful, of what I\u2019ve learned in the UK\u2014where, I\u2019d say, we are further along this secularization journey than the US.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Because we haven\u2019t had a Christian bubble to put our kids in for quite some time in the UK. We don\u2019t have schools where they can be surrounded by just Christians and that kind of thing. We\u2019ve had to learn, already, \u201cWhat do we do for kids who are constantly surrounded by questions, and objections, and just a secular worldview?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And even the <em>bubble<\/em>! Is that always a <em>good <\/em>thing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Well, exactly. To some extent, I think the problem with the bubble is that, as soon as it comes along, it gets popped. Then you\u2019re left with all the same questions as before. I think what\u2019s really key, and what a lot of parents need to learn now, is that we need to prepare young people, around the dinner table from an early age, for the world that now exists around them (and, actually, has always existed); the secular world.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re in no different position, at the end of the day, to the first Christians who existed. Two thousand years ago, there were lots of alternative options out there in the pagan world that they were surrounded by. And they had this <em>strange<\/em> belief in a Jewish Messiah, who had been raised from the dead, and people were calling them <em>crazy<\/em> for it. Well, you know, people call Christians crazy today for their beliefs. [Laughter] Nothing\u2019s changed that much.<\/p>\n<p>But 2,000 years ago, that community went on and changed the world. It can happen again. We\u2019re now living in this post-Christian era. I think, as parents, the best we can do is actually help our kids to be ready for the questions they\u2019re going to face, rather than trying to pretend that stuff doesn\u2019t exist and shield them from that. Actually, take the opportunity, when you still have the influence, to sit down at the dinner table and say, \u201cHey, I heard this interesting video of someone claiming that God doesn\u2019t exist\u2026\u201d \u201cI heard this other view on sexuality being discussed\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>If you don\u2019t have the conversations with them at <em>this<\/em> point, when you\u2019re a parent with some influence, they\u2019re going to have those conversations somewhere else. Someone else is going to be educating your kids in that area. I think you just have to be absolutely honest and say, \u201cLook, the genie\u2019s out of the bottle. We can\u2019t pretend we live in a Christian bubble anymore. So, let\u2019s take seriously what we\u2019re called to do in terms of actually engaging these questions.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We encourage questions around our dinner table. We have some wonderful conversations. It\u2019s fine if our kids have questions that we can\u2019t even answer at this point, because that\u2019s the whole point. You say, \u201cWell, look, I\u2019m not sure what the answer to that is, but let\u2019s keep the conversation going.\u201d I think the <em>real<\/em> problem for kids is when you shut down a conversation; when you say, \u201cYou\u2019re not allowed to ask that question.\u201d Because kids have an inbuilt kind of detector, that says, \u201cOkay, so Christianity <em>isn\u2019t <\/em>something that\u2019s for real normal life. If I can\u2019t talk about this issue, then it\u2019s obviously something that is just for church on Sundays and doesn\u2019t really apply to the rest of my life.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We <em>have<\/em> to get past that. If Christianity isn\u2019t something you can take with you, and ask all those questions about on Monday morning, then it\u2019s not real. So, for me, it\u2019s important that we accept where we are in the culture as parents, and we accept that God\u2019s calling us to faithfully model Christ to our children in the way we live our lives, but also, in our willingness to encounter their questions and do the best job we can at helping to guide them as they navigate those things.<\/p>\n<p>The thing to realize is, ultimately, we only have so much control really. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s <em>depressing<\/em>!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>I mean, I look at my kids. They are <em>all<\/em> so different. We\u2019ve raised them all, essentially, in the same way; but they are all <em>completely<\/em> different personalities. They\u2019ve got <em>completely<\/em> different questions; <em>completely<\/em> different ways in which I see them starting to put the pieces of Christianity together. And that\u2019s okay. You\u2019ve got to, in the end, entrust them into God\u2019s hands, and that can be <em>scary<\/em>, because we like to sort of be helicopter parents, where everything is planned to within an inch of his life. We\u2019d like it to be like that for their faith journey, but life isn\u2019t like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, you know, I\u2019m also thinking, as I hear you say that, Justin: \u201cThe average Christian parent is [thinking], \u2018Well, I\u2019m not Justin Brierley. I [don\u2019t have] a doctorate in this area, so I\u2019m <em>afraid <\/em>to bring up something that I\u2019m not going to be able to answer adequately and, maybe, <em>I<\/em> don\u2019t even know what <em>I<\/em> believe.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For you, it\u2019s like\u2014okay, you\u2019re one of the best in the world\u2014of course, you have that conversation! What about the average person?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>I think you have to go back to 1 Peter 3:15. Now, most people read that in the context of us being out in the wider world when it says: \u201cAlways be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks you about the reason for the hope that you have,\u201d but that could be around the dinner table.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>It could be with our kids, okay? <em>They\u2019re<\/em> asking us for a reason for the hope that we have. We have to <em>be ready<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Now, yes, for parents, this will mean, when they have difficult questions, saying, \u201cLook, I can\u2019t answer that right now, but I would love to go and find a resource that might help you to think through that.\u201d You don\u2019t have to have all the answers, okay? And it\u2019s okay to be honest with your kids, and say, \u201cI\u2019m still working some of this stuff out.\u201d I think kids respect that kind of honesty and humility in the end.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>But in the end, it is about doing some of the hard work ourselves and being ready, as 1 Peter says, to start to try to point them in the right direction with some of those questions.<\/p>\n<p>It might be a great TikTok channel, where they actually are doing some of this stuff, and it\u2019s right where they are looking anyway. You can say, \u201cLook, I know you are seeing the skeptical stuff over here, but have you seen this <em>great<\/em>\u2014\"<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014oh, every parent is like, \u201cTell me one!\u201d Even your\u2014did you start <em>Unbelievable<\/em>, your radio podcast show?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Yes, I did.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I mean, would <em>that<\/em> be a good resource?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Now, it\u2019s <em>Re-Enchanting<\/em>, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Well, the <em>Unbelievable <\/em>show continues. There\u2019s a vast archive of podcasts and video shows, where we bring these questions into the public arena and debate them. The <em>Re-Enchanting<\/em> podcast is another one, where we\u2019re exploring the Christian worldview with a variety of thinkers.<\/p>\n<p>There is an <em>absolute wealth<\/em> of apologetics material out there. In some ways, we\u2019re more spoiled for choice than we\u2019ve ever been before in terms of where we can point our young people. The problem is, sometimes, we don\u2019t know where to begin.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>The internet is <em>huge<\/em>, and we can\u2019t always tell the good from the bad. I would say, \u201c<em>Do <\/em>the work of actually looking. There are some <em>great<\/em> resources out there and some wonderful ways.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I remember when our 12-year-old son, Jeremy, was telling us, \u201cOh, the kids at school were telling me that Jesus doesn\u2019t exist; it\u2019s just fairytales.\u201d When I was just able to point him to one sort of three-minute video on <em>YouTube<\/em>, just giving some basic historical facts about the existence of Jesus, and it [was] like a lightbulb went off in his head. He\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m going to show my friends this when I get back to school.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, what was it? Every parent is like, \u201c<em>Just tell me the video<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>I\u2019m afraid I can\u2019t even remember the name. I think it was by William Lane Craig, who has a wonderful ministry, Reasonable Faith.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>They\u2019ve done a number of short, animated videos on things like \u201cThe Evidence for Jesus\u201d or \u201cThe Evidence for God\u201d and that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>Most kids, sadly, are probably not going to sit down and read a 70,000-word book, but they might watch a two-minute video. Find out where those resources are, and you might just find there is enough there for them to take the next step.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Now, how <em>certain<\/em> do you feel like we need to be? I\u2019m thinking of Hebrews 11:1. I\u2019ll read it to you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know it: \u201cNow faith is the confidence of what we hope for and <em>assurance <\/em>about what we do not see.\u201d When I read a verse like that, I often feel, \u201cI don\u2019t always feel assurance.\u201d So I\u2019m <em>less of<\/em> [in] my belief in God. The writer of Hebrews is like, \u201cMan, you\u2019ve got to have certainty.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>\u201c\u2026the assurance of things unseen.\u201d The thing for me is that, sometimes, people take that word\u2014faith, that\u2019s being defined there in Hebrews\u2014and they think that it means certainty. That\u2019s <em>not<\/em> what the word means. You could translate the Greek word, <em>pistis<\/em>, a few different ways. But none of the ways are going to mean certainty. It means hope; it means trust. Those are the kinds of ways in which the writer is meaning to define this thing called \u201cfaith.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For me, if faith is about trust rather than just being certain about something\u2014it\u2019s not that we have an iron-cast bullet-proof argument for God or for Christianity. It\u2019s that we have <em>enough<\/em> to be able to trust this. Now, what does trust mean?<\/p>\n<p>I <em>love<\/em> the story of a famous tightrope walker called Blondin in the late 19<sup>th<\/sup> Century, who was famous for crossing Niagara Falls on his tightrope. One day, the King of England came to see his act. He saw Blondin walk across the Falls on the tightrope, and he saw him push a wheelbarrow across the Falls on this tightrope; finally, he put a sack of potatoes in and pushed it back and forth. Finally, Blondin came to the king and said, \u201cDo you believe that I can push a man in a wheelbarrow across the Falls?\u201d The king said, \u201cYes, of course, I do. Of course, I believe that.\u201d He said, \u201cWell, get in then.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>The point of the story is, faith is not just <em>belief<\/em> in something; it\u2019s <em>trusting<\/em> in that thing. That\u2019s the difference, okay? What the king was asked to do by Blondin was to <em>trust<\/em>; not just believe that Blondin could do it, but to trust his own life. That\u2019s where faith comes in. We can <em>believe<\/em> lots of things about the Christian faith. The question is: \u201cDo we entrust our life to it?\u201d That\u2019s where faith come alive. That is the bit where we kind of lean in; where we actually trust our life to something.<\/p>\n<p>For me, that kind of faith is not simply about believing a set of doctrinal statements. As James says, \u201cEven the demons believe and tremble.\u201d Belief is not the key factor. It\u2019s about trust; it\u2019s about: \u201cAm I willing to stake something on this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For some people, the belief may kind of seem to waver, and come and go in their mind. It\u2019s like, \u201cSome days, I feel like I really believe this stuff; and some days, I don\u2019t believe this stuff as much.\u201d What <em>really<\/em> counts is whether you\u2019re trusting in it. However much you feel like you do or don\u2019t believe that thing, does your life look like you are trusting in this? That\u2019s what God is more interested, I think, is where you\u2019re going to step out and do something about your faith.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>So, that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying that would look like: to get in the wheelbarrow is to step out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Don\u2019t get too obsessed with how strongly you believe or not in a set of doctrinal propositions. That will change. It may just depend on what you had for dinner last night and what state of mind you are in. What God\u2019s interested in is people who trust Him. For me, that\u2019s a different\u2014slightly different\u2014thing. That\u2019s having the confidence that these things are true, but actually putting your life on the line because of it\u2014actually, leaning in and doing something about it. For me, that\u2019s far more what faith is supposed to be about. It\u2019s an <em>active<\/em> thing, not just sort of a passive assent to a set doctrines. It\u2019s, \u201cNo, this stuff makes a difference in my life, and I\u2019m going to <em>act<\/em> on it now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, we do it every single day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You did it, jumping on an airplane, to fly. I bet you didn\u2019t go out, and check the engines, and talk to the pilot. We just have enough certainty and evidence that we say, \u201cI\u2019m going to trust this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>And it\u2019s true of every worldview. What a lot of people don\u2019t realize is, it\u2019s not a choice between crazy Christian belief and sort of some kind of neutral thing. If you\u2019re an Atheist, you have a worldview! You\u2019re putting your trust in <em>something<\/em>. You\u2019ve got to kind of give reasons for that just as much as I have. In the end, the key thing is whether it actually works for your life. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>A lot of people find that, even worldviews that they thought were very\u2014you know, that they really believed in\u2014didn\u2019t work in the end. Friends of mine, who were Atheists, found out this wasn\u2019t livable in the end. \u201cEven though I find Christianity to be a bit strange and weird, and I don\u2019t know if I can completely sign up for all these things, there\u2019s something about it that <em>works<\/em>.\u201d Sometimes, that\u2019s where faith is. It\u2019s like stepping out and <em>trying<\/em> it; stepping into this worldview, not having it all sorted in your mind. Sometimes, you just have to take that Kierkegaardian leap of faith.<\/p>\n<p>I tell you, it\u2019s a step of faith, rather than leap. A leap sounds like you\u2019re leaping into the unknown, with nothing to support you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>I think faith is kind of doing something daring, but <em>knowing <\/em>that you\u2019re going to have something solid that will meet it, because that\u2019s been your experience.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>What advice would you have for the parent, we were talking about earlier, [who] is watching their son or daughter\u2014as a teenager, or college-aged student, or whatever age\u2014that they have raised their whole life in the church. They\u2019ve <em>seen<\/em> evidence of faith in their kids, and now, that child is just saying, \u201cI don\u2019t believe this. I\u2019m walking away.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The parent\u2014we said earlier\u2014there\u2019s an <em>angst<\/em>. It\u2019s like, \u201cOh, I never wanted this to happen.\u201d They\u2019re watching it happen. What do they do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>The first thing to know is that God knows what that feels like, because His first children walked away from Him\u2014Adam and Eve. That\u2019s the story, that humans are rebellious. You can have the <em>best<\/em> parents in the world, and kids are still going to do their thing.<\/p>\n<p>The second thing is that there\u2019s some point at which you just have to do that thing. Faith is about trust. It\u2019s about saying, \u201cI <em>don\u2019t know<\/em> what\u2019s going to happen. But God, I\u2019m trusting that You do, and that I can put them in Your hands.\u201d Pray for them, obviously; always keep praying for them. Keep the door open to the questions and the conversations; never shut that down, okay? All you can do is be that loving presence at that point in their life, which is kind of encouraging them to keep the door open to the Christian faith.<\/p>\n<p>You <em>never <\/em>know what the thing is that, ultimately, might make the difference. It might look, right now, like they are going off into a completely different trajectory. But I\u2019ve [heard] too many stories of people who looked like that was the end of the story for them. And then, things turned around\u2014because a life event happened, or someone stepped into their life, or something\u2014a piece of the puzzle\u2014came together in a way that, suddenly, they were like, \u201cOkay, now I understand why this story meant so much to <em>my <\/em>parents and why it could actually mean a lot to me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>As I say, sometimes, that deconstruction is just an important part of the puzzle for people. But don\u2019t give up faith that they could re-construct. Just keep praying and loving them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I want to hear some of those stories, because in your book, <em>The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God<\/em>, you interviewed probably thousands and thousands of people; very intellectual people: atheists, agnostics. Are there some stories\u2014and you share some in your book\u2014of like, \u201cAww, this was a <em>great<\/em> interaction with this person?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Yes, I\u2019ll give you two: one of a personal friend; and then, one is someone whom I met, and interviewed, and speak about in the book at some length.<\/p>\n<p>That person is Paul Kingsnorth. He\u2019s a poet and author in the UK. He\u2019s got the most interesting story, because he\u2019s a celebrated author, who had a big audience as an author and poet; but he had been through this fantastically interesting religious roots in his life.<\/p>\n<p>He sort of had a spell, as a teenaged atheist, when he decided <em>none<\/em> of it was true. He had sort of a nominal Anglican sort of background [and] upbringing, but none of it had stuck. He said to me, even with his sort of teenage atheist faith, he still felt like the world was enchanted. He still loved reading mythology and J.R.R. Tolkien, and he loved being out in nature. There was something about nature that just <em>absolutely<\/em> inspired him.<\/p>\n<p>Eventually, he decided, \u201cNo, atheism doesn\u2019t cut it for me.\u201d And he decided to become a Buddhist. He thought, \u201cMaybe I can look inside and find this kind of transcendent meaning that I\u2019m looking for.\u201d So, believe it or not, he went into Wicca: essentially, a modern form of witchcraft, which he said involves turning up in the woods, and chanting, and basically worshipping nature, essentially. It was taking bits and pieces of Eastern mythology, and combining it with certain Christian rituals, and so on.<\/p>\n<p>But to his great surprise, he was having dinner one evening with his wife, and she said, completely out of the blue, \u201cYou\u2019re going to become a Christian.\u201d [Laughter] He said to her, \u201cWhat are you talking about? Of course, I\u2019m not going to become a Christian.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But within about two years, he had become a Christian. This was through a whole series of circumstances. He started, suddenly, to bump into all kinds of people who followed his work. They turned out to be church leaders, who were interested. He started having dreams about Jesus. God kept chasing him down the hallways. He, eventually, had a profound experience, where he realized, \u201cThis story actually makes sense of my story.\u201d He looked into it. He started to\u2014he entered the Eastern Orthodox Church in the end. He\u2019s got just an extraordinary story.<\/p>\n<p>I look at somebody like Paul Kingsnorth\u2014this highly intellectual Western person, and this adult convert to faith, and I think, \u201cIf it can happen to Paul Kingsnorth, it could happen to anyone.\u201d Now, not everyone is going to have that journey\u2014you know, a quite esoteric journey\u2014through these various religious traditions, dreams, and all kinds of things that eventually led him to faith.<\/p>\n<p>The other story I will share is a personal friend of mine, called Peter Byron, who started listening to my <em>Unbelievable <\/em>show in the mid-2000\u2019s. He was at university at the time. He\u2019d grown up in a Christian family, but had sort of jettisoned it, really, by the time he went to university. One of his flat-mates was an atheist who said, \u201cYou should read this book by Richard Dawkins. Have you read it?\u201d And he thought, \u201cYes! Well, this puts the nail in the coffin of Christianity for me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then, very awkwardly, one of his other house-mates became a Christian. And he says\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>[Laughing]<strong> \u201c<\/strong>Very awkwardly.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>The problem was, he now was living with a devout atheist and a devout Christian. He couldn\u2019t escape the God question. He started to watch <em>YouTube<\/em> videos of the New Atheist people, like Dawkins, and he found their arguments quite persuasive.<\/p>\n<p>But it also led him to start watching some of the people who were responding. One of these people was William Lane Craig. As he did that, he started to realize, \u201cOh, there are some quite persuasive <em>counter<\/em> arguments to this New Atheist stuff.\u201d Increasingly, as he saw these conversations happening, and he started listening to <em>my <\/em>show, where these conversations were happening, he realized, \u201cOh, there\u2019s another story here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Eventually, we became friends. He even came on my show in this sort of agnostic phase, so he was still filled with lots of doubts and questions about Christianity. He eventually ended up <em>helping<\/em> with a tour that we put on with William Lane Craig, back in 2011. It was on that tour that he became a Christian. He had been on this <em>big<\/em> intellectual journey.<\/p>\n<p>One of the funny things Peter Byron says to me now is, \u201cActually, I thank God for Richard Dawkins. I mean, he actually raised the God question for me. I\u2019m a Christian now because of him.\u201d God has a sense of humor, I would say. He can even use the New Atheists to bring people to faith. So, never give up hope. Trust that there\u2019s a bigger picture.<\/p>\n<p>My hope is with the book, especially, that people will see that God\u2019s not finished. There have always been times when the tide of faith goes out, and we\u2019re in one of those moments in our culture. But that\u2019s never the end of the story. If you go back through history, you\u2019ll see times when the tide of faith seem to be going out on the church; but something happened. there was a Wesley, or a Whitefield, a revival; God did something surprising.<\/p>\n<p>I think there is something surprising just around the corner in our culture as well. I <em>sense<\/em> that we\u2019re starting to see the turning of that tide, in that sense. People are questioning the atheists\u2019 story of reality, increasingly, in lots of the circles I move in. And people, I think, are just getting to the point where they might be ready to hear the Christian story again, because all the other stories we\u2019re telling ourselves aren\u2019t working. Once people get to the end of those stories\u2014people like Paul Kingsnorth, who tried all these other stories, they might just find the Christian story is waiting for them after all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that <em>exciting<\/em>? I, for one, <em>love<\/em> to hear people like Justin talk about the interest other people are having in God, because it gives us such an <em>incredible<\/em> opportunity to join God in what He\u2019s doing to bring people to Himself. It\u2019s <em>so<\/em> cool.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Justin Brierley on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Justin\u2019s written a book called <em>The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God<\/em>. This book really outlines the dramatic fall of New Atheism and the birth of a <em>new<\/em> conversation on whether God makes sense out of things like science, history, culture, and the search for meaning.<\/p>\n<p>You can go online and get a copy of Justin Brierley\u2019s book, <em>The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God<\/em>, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Just click on \u201cToday\u2019s Resources.\u201d Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, I just wanted to take a second to thank you if gave to our matching program that happened in December. You know, checks are still coming in, and we don\u2019t have all the numbers just yet. But if you gave, I sincerely want to say how grateful I am for your generosity to help make <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>possible. Thank you so much for giving and supporting this ministry. And even if you <em>didn\u2019t <\/em>give, and you\u2019ve just shared episodes with someone, or even if you just listened, thank you so much for being a part of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I\u2019m really, really thankful.<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, Justin Brierley is back with Dave and Ann Wilson to talk about <em>The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God<\/em>. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2024 FamilyLife. 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