{"id":307901,"date":"2023-10-30T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-10-30T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda-2\/"},"modified":"2025-01-08T16:21:43","modified_gmt":"2025-01-08T21:21:43","slug":"why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Why Do I Do What I Don&#8217;t Want to Do? Jonathan Pokluda"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Stuck in habits and vices you hate? Speaker and bestselling author J.P. Pokluda knows there&#8217;s a better, more fulfilling way to live, and it doesn&#8217;t involve looking inside yourself for the answers&#8211;because that&#8217;s not where you&#8217;ll find them. With his signature wit and wisdom, he explains, unpacks, and expands on the age-old virtues Scripture tells us to pursue. Far from being restrictive, these God-given goals for living free you to love and live as you wish you would.<\/p>\n<p>The enemy comes along and sets it in front of you, and just says, \u201cHere, take and eat. Why wouldn\u2019t you?\u201d Like he does with Jesus when He&#8217;s in the desert; he says, \u201cWhy don\u2019t You eat this bread? Look, all of this could be Yours!\u201d He\u2019s still running the same offense.<\/p>\n<p><em fetchpriority=\"high\">I think, as long as we\u2019re under the sun\u2014until we\u2019re in that glorified state, until we\u2019re in the presence of God\u2014that temptation never goes away. There\u2019s always going to be the desires of the flesh [and] the enemy who lures us with the things of the world.<\/em> &#8212; Jonathan Pokluda<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Stuck in habits and vices you hate? Author J.P. Pokluda knows there&#8217;s a more fulfilling way to live.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-10-30.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:04","filesize":"35.81M","filesize_raw":"37544909","date_recorded":"2023-10-30 09:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873,2866],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8695],"cwp_profile":[9594],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307901","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-spiritual-disciplines-essentials-faith","podcast_series-why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda","cwp_profile-jp-pokluda","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307901\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307901\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"1tHfF3q908\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda-2\/\">Why Do I Do What I Don&#8217;t Want to Do? Jonathan Pokluda<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-jonathan-pokluda-2\/embed\/#?secret=1tHfF3q908\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Why Do I Do What I Don&#8217;t Want to Do? Jonathan Pokluda&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"1tHfF3q908\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-10-30.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-10-30.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s a question I\u2019ve never asked you before\u201443 years of marriage\u2014never asked you <em>ever<\/em>. I have <em>no<\/em> idea what your answer might be. [Laughter] How many times a day do you think you sin?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong><em>What<\/em>?! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>The reason I\u2019m asking that: we\u2019ve got a real <em>sinner<\/em> on the air and in the studio. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right! That is a <em>fact<\/em>: chief of sinners. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, I\u2019m kidding. Jonathan Pokluda is with us, JP.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I recently had that conversation; in fact, polled the audience on Instagram.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You did?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cHow many times do you think [you sin]; what would you guess?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Come on!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cIs it less than \u2026?\u201d or \u201cIs it more than \u2026?\u201d I\u2019ve got a hamartiology, the study of sin. [Laughter] I\u2019ve got a lot of thoughts, hot takes on that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I want to know the <em>response<\/em>. What did people say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Most people\u2014in my opinion, to show you my cards\u2014shoot really <em>low<\/em>. And I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, more than you could <em>ever <\/em>imagine\u201d\u2014 your thoughts and the thoughts that you give way to. Sometimes, it\u2019s not a fleeting thought, but a thought that you entertain and all of the things. I think we are much bigger sinners than we realize.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I got the idea when I read the title of your book\u2014your latest book, <em>Why Do I<\/em>\u2014<em>Why Do I<\/em>\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s the <em>longest<\/em> title in the history of books.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here we go! I\u2019ve got to do it <em>right<\/em>: <em>Why Do I Do What I Don\u2019t Want to Do? <\/em>I thought, \u201cIs this your memoir?\u201d Is this what this is?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes; that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>No, it\u2019s Paul\u2019s from Romans.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Actually, when I saw that, I thought, obviously, Romans 7.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I thought, \u201cI\u2019m going to write Dave\u2019s biography.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>There you go! That\u2019s it! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>But I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s <em>exactly <\/em>the question!\u201d And I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve felt the same way. I didn\u2019t come to Christ until I was a junior in college, raised by two alcoholic parents; so I was a <em>wild<\/em> man. I came to Christ, and I really had this thought as a junior in college\u2014I\u2019m on the football team, and I\u2019m thinking: \u201cI am so much worse than all these Christians\u201d (when I started to go to the Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>meetings). I didn\u2019t know what Cru was [before that]. I just thought, \u201cThey are so much better than I was and am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then, when I read Romans 7 for the first time\u2014I can almost tell you where I was in my dorm room\u2014I did not know that\u2019s in the Bible, where Paul says, \u201cI do what I don\u2019t want to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Most relatable chapter, for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes! The subtitle\u2014and you\u2019ve got to tell us what this all means, even though we\u2019ve read it, but our listeners haven\u2019t\u2014<em>Replace Deadly Vices with Life-Giving Virtues<\/em>. I <em>love<\/em> the way you balance the vice and the virtue.<\/p>\n<p>You know what? Some people don\u2019t even know what you do. You\u2019re down in Waco at\u00a0 Harris Creek Baptist Church. Tell our audience what you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, in the past, I got into ministry, focused on young adult ministry. A lot of what I do today is helping parents relate to their Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha child. Now I pastor a church, for the past five years, in Waco, Texas.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019ve been married how many years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Eighteen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>You have two daughters and a son; Weston\u2019s with you here today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I heard you married somebody just like my wife.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>They\u2019re twins, man. [Laughter] You wouldn\u2019t believe!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>They\u2019ve got to meet! They\u2019ve never met.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I need to <em>meet<\/em> her!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You don\u2019t need to\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You need to bring her <em>next <\/em>time. I know that would be fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>What\u2019s really fun is you are on our new <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>We\u2019re revamping that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, we\u2019ll talk about it a little bit later, but man, what a resource. It\u2019s going to change marriages.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s going to serve marriages all over the world; all of the country for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk vices.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You\u2019ve got a long list?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You go through ten, right?\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014from the seven deadly sins? Where did that come from?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That was the inspiration. [When] I grew up, there was a movie that came out about <em>The Seven Deadly Sins<\/em>. That\u2019s not in the Bible in the way that was packaged. It actually comes from a monk, Evagrius Ponticus, [who] packaged it. Thomas Aquinas re-packaged it. You kind of come up with the seven that we had.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s the inspiration behind the book: when you\u2019re doing ministry, you have a front-row seat to people wrecking their lives. You realize it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> a long list of vices that people choose from. It\u2019s not lists of hundreds or even dozens. It really is the same mold that they return to. There\u2019s a lot of overlap as you turn to the chapters. I think people pick up this book and think, \u201cMaybe there\u2019s going to be one or two chapters that relate to me.\u201d The number-one feedback that I got was, \u201cI didn\u2019t realize every single chapter was going to relate to me.\u201d It\u2019s because these are the ten vices that we come face to face,with every single week. These are the temptations that the enemy [often] uses to try to take out believers.<\/p>\n<p>We talk about the ancient battles and the modern wars as well; the book is split into the two. That\u2019s less relevant\u2014I mean, sin\u2019s always been sin; there have always been struggles; there have always been things that the enemy\u2019s used to try to take us out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>As you think of answering this question\u2014I know you could go right to<\/p>\n<p>Romans 8: \u201cThere\u2019s no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,\u201d\u2014but how would you answer it? <em>Why<\/em> do we do what we don\u2019t want to do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think of the ancient narrative\u2014of what I call \u201cThe Original Fall\u201d\u2014that angels are created beings and that God made angels as objects to worship Him. There was one who said, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t want to worship You. I want to be like You. I want to be God.\u201d He\u2019s sent to the earth, and that\u2019s the spirit of the air. The Scripture calls him \u201dthe god of this world\u201d the little \u201cg\u201d god of this world; the prince of the air. The Satanic influence of the world is: \u201cHey, I want to be a god.\u201d We go through life trying to be a god; we try to be as comfortable as we possibly can; to experience as much temporary pleasure as we possibly can; and to be as famous or known and respected as we possibly can.<\/p>\n<p>The interesting thing is, when you turn to Genesis 2, you see that God made us to be like Him. He made us in His image. Not just are we image-bearers, but really, we\u2019re rulers. He said, \u201cI want you to rule over the creatures of the land, the birds of the sky. I want you to name them; I want you to cultivate the land.\u201d You turn to the New Testament, and we\u2019re called to be reconcilers. He says, \u201cThis whole thing was lost because you sinned. I want you to begin to put it back together, to begin to show the world what was meant to be.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think that sin nature in me is still there; that every now and then, it shows up as selfish, self-centered, self-seeking, self-loving, self-exalting: \u201cI want to <em>be<\/em> God. I don\u2019t want to worship God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I remember I was in seminary, decades ago. I don\u2019t know how I ended up in this little house outside of San Bernardino, California to lead a high school Bible study. I don\u2019t know why I remember this, but I sit down with these 16- and 17-year-old kids. I say, \u201cOkay, guys, let\u2019s talk about sin.\u201d It was just boys. I say, \u201cWhy do we sin?\u201d It got really quiet. Finally, one guys says, \u201cWell, because we have a sin nature; and we\u2019re depraved,. He had all the theological answers to it. I say, \u201cThat\u2019s not the answer I thought you\u2019d give me.\u201d They\u2019re like [sounding surprised], \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d I say, \u201cWe sin because we <em>like<\/em> it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, we <em>love <\/em>it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s fun! There\u2019s something in us that\u2019s <em>drawn<\/em> to that. That\u2019s what you\u2019re saying: it\u2019s probably that desire to be in control: \u201cI want to be the god of my life,\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know if you guys have seen this, but I thought, \u201cI\u2019m pretty <em>decent<\/em>.\u201d I gave my life to Jesus in high school, and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m getting this down,\u201d and then I get married.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I\u2019m thinking,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014I know where this is going!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cDave has made me become this different person!\u201d Because I\u2019m realizing I have this anger; I have this frustration; I have control issues.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s a mirror, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s a <em>mirror<\/em>. Did you ever see that? in your marriage?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; I was told marriage is a mirror to show you how selfish you are. To experience that was like, \u201cWhoa, I got hit in the face.\u201d We almost didn\u2019t make it, year two. It\u2019s a part of our story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Did you think it was <em>your <\/em>problem or <em>her <\/em>problem?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>No, I thought it was <em>her <\/em>problem. [Laughter] I mean, all the things! I just remember I thought thoughts that are so embarrassing. And then, we had kids. We had a kid; our first kid.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That mirror got so big. It was like marriage put a mirror in front of me, and then we had <em>a<\/em> kid, a singular child. It was like you put four other marriage mirrors around you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Now, all of a sudden, anywhere you look, it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m the most selfish human being ever!\u201d [Laughter] The wife and the child just want to take away from my happiness. That\u2019s what it felt like. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And you know what I did, as a wife? I thought, \u201c<em>Dave<\/em> is the most selfish creature on the planet.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she was right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>But it was <em>me<\/em>! I<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>So, I think you are right. I think it <em>is<\/em> a mirror.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking about <em>why<\/em> we do what we do; there\u2019s definitely a sin nature that\u2019s there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>But when you come to Christ, you think, \u201cIt\u2019ll go away.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan and Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Hopefully, we\u2019re better; but it doesn\u2019t go away. I remember one time, we had an electric fence for our golden retriever. Duke, as we used to call him, was our homecoming queen; just this most obedient, wonderful dog. That electric fence worked; he <em>never <\/em>left the yard.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Until!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, our <em>neighbor<\/em> gets a dog and puts an electric fence, literally, a foot on their side. They have a fence; we have a fence. Their dog was Rusty; this was <em>years<\/em> ago. Rusty would come out in the backyard, and never cross over, but would just <em>bark<\/em>. Duke would get over there, and you could tell he wanted to go over and play with Rusty, but they both\u2014so, they just sit there and bark at each other. One day, I\u2019m not kidding, I look out\u2014I think I called you over and I said, because Duke kept getting closer, I said: \u201cI think he\u2019s going!\u201d It just looked like, \u201cI know this will hurt, but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cI\u2019m going to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>And he <em>did<\/em>; he just sort of backed up, and he started <em>sprinting<\/em>, and he <em>jumps<\/em> in the air. He literally\u2014you can tell he\u2019s\u2014bzzzzz\u2014and then, he\u2019s [trying to shake it off] running around. I sat there, and I thought, \u201cHe literally did that!\u201d Now, I don\u2019t know, but he literally decided\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014he counted the cost.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014he counted the cost!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014counted the cost, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cThe pain is worth the pleasure!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I, of course, as a preacher, I say, \u201cWe do that <em>every<\/em> day;\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Oh, man.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cbut the consequences are a lot worse,\u201d right? We just don\u2019t do it [refuse to act]. Here\u2019s the question: \u201c<em>Why<\/em> don\u2019t we get better?\u201d I mean, we <em>do<\/em>; we\u2019re <em>redeemed<\/em>. We\u2019re being sanctified, but we <em>still<\/em> do what we don\u2019t want to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I\u2019ve heard it explained as the carrot, the stick, and the donkey. If you think about the cartoon picture of someone dangling a carrot off a stick to make the donkey go, the donkey is our flesh. There\u2019s something in us that wants the carrot. The carrot is actually all that the world has to offer. We\u2019re in this temporary place, and the lusts of the flesh, right? the pride of life? the things that we\u2019re looking around, and we\u2019re saying, \u201cI <em>want<\/em> that.\u201d We have this flesh. You\u2019re baited with everything the world has to offer. The stick is the enemy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>The enemy comes along and sets it in front of you, and just says, \u201cHere, take and eat. Why wouldn\u2019t you?\u201d Like he does with Jesus when He's in the desert; he says, \u201cWhy don\u2019t You eat this bread? Look, all of this could be Yours!\u201d He\u2019s still running the same offense.<\/p>\n<p>I think, as long as we\u2019re under the sun\u2014until we\u2019re in that glorified state, until we\u2019re in the presence of God\u2014that temptation <em>never<\/em> goes away. There\u2019s always going to be the desires of the flesh [and] the enemy who lures us with the things of the world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s why it <em>feels<\/em> like we\u2019re not getting better. Also, experientially, I find this to be true: it seems like the closer we grow to Christ, the more we realize our sin.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s kind of like, when you start off, you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m not that bad. I\u2019m not that bad of a person.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>And then, as you grow closer and closer to Him\u2014as you begin to compare yourself to Him\u2014you\u2019re like, \u201cWow! I\u2019m <em>really<\/em> depraved. I\u2019m <em>really<\/em> fallen. I <em>really<\/em> need a Savior.\u201d Hopefully, our appreciation for Him, and the work He did on the cross, grows. We say, \u201cMan, I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> thankful that God rescued me from my depravity.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Me, too. Let\u2019s talk about the ancient battles, Part One of your book. Let\u2019s go through some of those.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, let\u2019s go.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You start with pride.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think C.S. Lewis said, \u201cIt\u2019s the vice or the sin that made the devil the devil.\u201d That\u2019s that narrative that we covered. I think it\u2019s still foundational to everything we do. All of these vices have overlaps. This one, especially, bleeds into every single one of them. If you think about why we get drunk, or why we\u2019re greedy, or why we lust\u2014or any of it\u2014pride is foundational to all of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, how do we get to\u2014the virtue is humility. How do we get there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think the reason why it\u2019s bifurcated in that way. Every chapter deals with the vice and the virtue. I know you guys have a lot of exposure to church and have done ministry for a while and led churches. The way I think about is: so often, in church, it\u2019s like God is the God of \u201cDon\u2019ts.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave and Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You know, \u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em>\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em> have fun,\u201d \u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em> do this\u2026\u201d [Laughter] \u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em> watch R-rated movies,\u201d \u201c\u2026.curse,\u201d \u201c\u2026consume alcohol,\u201d \u201c\u2026dance,\u201d or whatever the thing is. But what if we focused on\u2014and sometimes, I think we get stuck on defense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Me, too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cThou shalt not\u2026\u201d is the defense. It\u2019s like \u201cI\u2019m putting up my shield; I\u2019m praying; and I\u2019m just trying really, really hard not to sin.\u201d In trying really, really hard not to sin, I\u2019m not doing <em>anything<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat if, rather than trying hard not to be prideful, you just sought out to be humble?\u201d You said, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to be as humble as I can. I\u2019m going to <em>pursue<\/em> humility.\u201d Rather than trying <em>not<\/em> to do this, \u201cI\u2019m going to <em>pursue <\/em>the virtue that God calls us to,\u201d and you stay in that world. That\u2019s where you turn to 1 Peter 5. He says, \u201cClothe yourself, all of you, clothe yourself in humility, for God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Therefore, humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God so that, in due time, He may lift you up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>God\u2019s going to lift you up as you clothe yourself in humility. Why would I want to stay in this place where I\u2019m just trying <em>not <\/em>to be prideful? Why not try to be humble? That\u2019s the premise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you do that? What did it look like in actuality?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Just to pursue humility?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, I talk about a friend of mine, who, every day, he wakes up; he stands in his closet, and as he\u2019s getting dressed, he thinks about: \u201cWhat does my calendar look like today? What are my meetings? The Scripture calls me to clothe myself in humility.\u201d He looks at them, and he says, \u201cI\u2019m going to have to wear <em>a lot<\/em> of humility to that one.\u201d He kind of goes through [his schedule]. He says, \u201cWhat does that need to look like? What does it look like for me to be humble in those meetings?\u201d He lives in that future reality of, \u201cWhat does it look like for me to <em>pursue<\/em> humility with that person? Who is God calling me to be with that person?\u201d That\u2019s <em>one<\/em> of the practical things.<\/p>\n<p>Secondly, I would just say, \u201c<em>Serve<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, that\u2019s good!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Jesus says in Mark 10:45: \u201cFor the Son of Man did not come to <em>be<\/em> served, but to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many.\u201d The antidote to <em>trying <\/em>to be God is to say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be God! God is God! He\u2019s a better God than I will ever be. He\u2019s all-knowing; He\u2019s all-powerful. I\u2019m not all-knowing or all-powerful. He\u2019s got that job covered. How about I be the chief servant?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He leads His disciples through this narrative. He says, \u201cYou know those who are considered as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cYes! The Romans: they just want <em>power<\/em>.\u201d He says, \u201cBut <em>not so <\/em>with you.\u201d He says, \u201cWhoever wants to be first must be last. Whoever wants to be the chief has to be slave of all. The Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Somehow, that falls out of Sunday school or something. [Laughter] I think, as we seek to be Christians, we forget: \u201cOh, a bullseye for us is to be the chief servant,\u201d to literally go through life with eyes to see, \u201cWho can I serve?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And you may not <em>feel <\/em>like doing it or want to do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying, \u201cNo, I\u2019m going to make these steps to do it.\u201d I <em>love <\/em>the closet idea.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>He\u2019s getting ready, thinking through; to me, that\u2019s really praying.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking about <em>you<\/em>, JP. You\u2019re the lead pastor of a church; you\u2019re at the top. It\u2019s an easy place to be full of pride, because the lights are on you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, the people are looking at you. I remember I was teaching with my cofounder of the church back in Michigan, years ago, at a pastors\u2019 conference.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>[Laughter]I\u2019m laughing because of what happened. I\u2019m telling these guys, \u201cHey, people are going to want to crown you king\u2014it\u2019s Old Testament\u2014we want a king. People crown a <em>king<\/em>; they just want\u2014\"<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, honor culture.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I said, \u201cWhen that happens, you got to <em>reject<\/em> it. You\u2019re not the king...\u201d\u2014blah, blah, blah. I\u2019m not kidding! The <em>next <\/em>day, somebody posts on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> something [about] my cofounder, Steve. They said, \u201cSteve Andrews said, \u2018Yesterday was this great quote, \u201cSomebody is going to crown you king.\u201d I said, \u201cI <em>said<\/em> that! Steve <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> say that.\u201d [Laughter] There it was! I\u2019m like, \u201cLook at me!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong><em>Who cares <\/em>who said it? But I was like, \u201cI should get the credit for the quote.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s <em>still <\/em>in there.\u201d You\u2019re right; I think the antidote is [to] serve. Set up the chairs; tear the chairs down. Don\u2019t just be the guy behind the mic, getting all the\u2014am I right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes! And I want to be king. I want to be king. I just want to confess to the world that there\u2019s a part of me that wants to be king. The church that we now lead is this <em>amazing<\/em> gathering of a group of people, God\u2019s people, in the country outside of Waco. [We\u2019re in an] almost 150-year-old Baptist church in the country.<\/p>\n<p>As we moved there\u2014and it\u2019s such a big shift for us\u2014I got on that stage with my family. I said, \u201cIf you are tempted to put me on a pedestal, I <em>promise<\/em> you, I\u2019m going to fall off. Because what you see is what you get, and I\u2019m not going to tell my kids that they need to act right in front of you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cI\u2019m going to raise them to be respectful, but there\u2019s a <em>difference<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave and Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> \u201cI don\u2019t want to teach them perception management. Our family is going to disappoint you. We\u2019re <em>not<\/em> going to manage perception.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll give you something really practical, to go back to your question of, \u201cWhat does it look like?\u201d And this I\u2019ve missed <em>way <\/em>more than I\u2019ve gotten this right; but just this morning, we pulled into the parking lot. There\u2019s a front-row spot. There\u2019s two ways to think about that, right? I can think, \u201cOh, look at the Lord! Won\u2019t He do it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Sorry, but that\u2019s what I do, JP! \u201cThanks, Jesus!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cHe gave me a front-row seat, man.\u201d [Laughter] I can take that spot, <em>or<\/em> something that is even <em>better<\/em>\u2014and I think God made us for this\u2014is, I can say, \u201cOh, man, somebody is going to get that!\u201d (Maybe it\u2019s you!) [Laughter] \u201cSomebody\u2019s going to be so excited they got that front-row seat. I want them to have it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then you take that next\u2014I said seat; parking spot\u2014you take that third or fourth [spot]; maybe you walk a little bit and get some exercise. You give it to someone else, and no one knows that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I mean, now, we\u2019re telling the whole world, but before this, no one would have known that, right? That\u2019s what it looks like! Those kinds of decisions; God is calling us to be a servant. \u201cHow can we serve others?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Let me ask you this\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014well, let me say, too, first: that reminds me of Paul saying, \u201cI beat my flesh and make it my slave.\u201d It reminds me of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014\"so I won\u2019t be disqualified from the race.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was thinking this, JP: I have found it is easier for me to do that at church, as a leader, than it is in my home.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I walk in my home, and there\u2019s a part of me that wants to be king.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Right, right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s like, \u201cHey!\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t snap my fingers, but it\u2019s like\u2014\u201cHey, is anybody going to make me a Coke<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>?\u201d And yet, of <em>all<\/em> the places to serve, and to model for my kids what it looks like to be a servant-leader husband,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014you sound like my wife right now. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>What\u2019s that mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cWe need to teach them to do chores,\u201d right? She\u2019s like, \u201cWell, the way to teach them to do chores is to <em>do<\/em> chores.\u201d [Laughter] I think she, appropriately, said, \u201cIf you just kind of bark at them to do the chores, I think that is going create some bitterness.\u201d And I\u2019m the same way. It\u2019s like I want that in my home\u2014I want to teach them respect; I want to teach them. . . \u2014that\u2019s how you do it. She said, \u201cI think you\u2019re going to have to lead by example here, too.\u201d That\u2019s my job.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, you know what? You must be doing a decent job, because at lunch today, there were a lot of us. Your 11-year-old son, Weston, gathered all the plates at the table and took them to the sink.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>But you know who <em>didn\u2019t<\/em>? This guy, right? His dad!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>His mom\u2019s a good teacher. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>No, I was thinking, \u201cHe\u2019s probably watched both his mom and his dad serve.\u201d That was pretty telling to me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You can tell lot about a person from their kids! Not that that\u2019s the only\u2014but it\u2019s an indicator.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure, it\u2019s not the only way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>People are cringing just now, like, \u201cIs it right now?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>We all know it\u2019s a lot of grace.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>JP, just give us a <em>baby<\/em> step. You\u2019ve given us a bunch of really practical things, but just for right now\u2014a person\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t know,\u201d\u2014give us a little baby step.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jonathan Pokluda on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You\u2019ll hear more from Jonathan about the next baby step you can take here in just a second. But I wanted to let you know that JP, or Jonathan Pokluda, has written a book called <em>Why Do I Do What I Don\u2019t Want to Do?<\/em> Sound familiar? It\u2019s from Scripture. The subtitle of his book is called <em>Replace Deadly Vices with Life-Giving Virtues<\/em>. It gives you some practical advice on how to do that to overcome the cycle of self-destructive bad habits you have.<\/p>\n<p>This book is going to be our gift to you when you partner with us financially. You can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com or give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Feel free to drop us something in the mail if you would like to also. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.<\/p>\n<p>Have you ever wondered what your marriage is for? \u201cWhat is it actually for?\u201d Are you wanting to get more out of what you\u2019ve got? Almost everybody would answer, \u201cYes,\u201d to that. Well, you can join Aaron and Jamie Ivey, Vivian Mabuni, and other <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>contributors this Wednesday, November 1<sup>st<\/sup>. It\u2019s going to be a night of marriage enrichment that you don\u2019t want to miss. You can register at FamilyLife.com\/ComingSoon or at the link in our show notes.<\/p>\n<p>Okay, here\u2019s Jonathan Pokluda about a baby step you can take to overcome the cycle of bad habits in your life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s changing the way you think. Think about that sin, that vice, that\u2019s eating your lunch right now, that you\u2019re thinking, \u201cI\u2019m just having the <em>most<\/em> difficult time getting on top of this. It feels like I\u2019m going to struggle with this forever. I feel so defeated in this area.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It might be materialism: you go on Amazon<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and you just can\u2019t resist clicking; you can\u2019t resist buying. You see the sales, and you can\u2019t resist walking in [the stores]. It may be lust. You\u2019re chasing hash tags; you\u2019re going to websites you know you shouldn\u2019t; or you\u2019re constantly having the second looks, or you\u2019re fantasizing in your mind, right? It might be alcohol. You know that you\u2019re drinking more than you should. You\u2019re getting to this place where you\u2019re trying to hide it, and you\u2019re sneaking it.<\/p>\n<p>Whatever it is, you\u2019re keeping a secret. Think about what the counterpart to that is: \u201cWhat is the life that God is calling you to?\u201d Because if you stay in that mindset of sin, you begin to think, \u201cMan, God wants to rip me off. He wants to keep good from me.\u201d But if you can really embrace this idea that: \u201cNo, He wants to set me free. He wants to give me something <em>better<\/em> than what I have. He wants to give me\u2014or restore\u2014what the enemy is trying to take from me right now. What is it that He is calling me to? What is the virtue\u2014the virtuous life\u2014that He is calling me to?\u201d You begin to pursue that.<\/p>\n<p>You see this in James 1:19. He says, \u201cBe quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry, for a person\u2019s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.\u201d When I give into these vices, I\u2019m actually <em>missing<\/em> <em>out<\/em> on the righteous life that God desires. I\u2019m not talking about the salvific truth. We understand Christ\u2019s righteousness is imputed upon us because of His work; but He calls us to live life by the Spirit and to put to death the deeds of the flesh. That\u2019s where the practical\u2014it\u2019s a little bit ethereal; it\u2019s a little bit of a mind work, but I would begin to think: \u201cWhat is the counterpart to the thing that I continue to fall into, and how can I pursue that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>The battle with lust, embracing authenticity, and overcoming cynicism with optimism\u2014those sound like problems that maybe a lot of us have. Well, JP did as well. Dave and Ann Wilson are going to be joined by him in the studio again tomorrow to talk about all that and much more. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2023 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n"],"duration":["00:26:04"],"show_notes":["<p><strong>Show Notes and Resources<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Click here to sign up for the Art of Marriage live event and <a href=\"http:\/\/familylife.com\/comingsoon\">get notified of when pre-orders are live!<\/a><br \/>\nLearn more about Jonathan Pokluda at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jonathanpokluda.com\/home\">jonathanpokluda.com<\/a><br \/>\nConnect with JP \u2013 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jpokluda\/\">@jpokluda<\/a><br \/>\nFind JP's new book, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-replace-deadly-vices-with-life-giving-virtues\/\">Why Do I Do What I Don't Want to Do? here.<\/a> or receive the book <a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/october-2023\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do\/?cru_source=FLTD24andcru_medium=Icareandcru_campaign=October2023\">when you give a donation<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all of JP's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/jp-pokluda\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all of FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n"],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["35.81M"],"filesize_raw":["37544909"],"_edit_lock":["1736371304:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2023-10-30 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in habits and vices you hate? Author J.P. Pokluda knows there's a more fulfilling way to live.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p><strong>Show Notes and Resources<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Click here to sign up for the Art of Marriage live event and <a href=\"http:\/\/familylife.com\/comingsoon\">get notified of when pre-orders are live!<\/a><br \/>\nLearn more about Jonathan Pokluda at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jonathanpokluda.com\/home\">jonathanpokluda.com<\/a><br \/>\nConnect with JP \u2013 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jpokluda\/\">@jpokluda<\/a><br \/>\nFind JP's new book, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do-replace-deadly-vices-with-life-giving-virtues\/\">Why Do I Do What I Don't Want to Do? here.<\/a> or receive the book <a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/october-2023\/why-do-i-do-what-i-dont-want-to-do\/?cru_source=FLTD24andcru_medium=Icareandcru_campaign=October2023\">when you give a donation<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all of JP's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/jp-pokluda\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all of FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-10-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s a question I\u2019ve never asked you before\u201443 years of marriage\u2014never asked you <em>ever<\/em>. I have <em>no<\/em> idea what your answer might be. [Laughter] How many times a day do you think you sin?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong><em>What<\/em>?! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>The reason I\u2019m asking that: we\u2019ve got a real <em>sinner<\/em> on the air and in the studio. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right! That is a <em>fact<\/em>: chief of sinners. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, I\u2019m kidding. Jonathan Pokluda is with us, JP.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I recently had that conversation; in fact, polled the audience on Instagram.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You did?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cHow many times do you think [you sin]; what would you guess?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Come on!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cIs it less than \u2026?\u201d or \u201cIs it more than \u2026?\u201d I\u2019ve got a hamartiology, the study of sin. [Laughter] I\u2019ve got a lot of thoughts, hot takes on that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I want to know the <em>response<\/em>. What did people say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Most people\u2014in my opinion, to show you my cards\u2014shoot really <em>low<\/em>. And I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, more than you could <em>ever <\/em>imagine\u201d\u2014 your thoughts and the thoughts that you give way to. Sometimes, it\u2019s not a fleeting thought, but a thought that you entertain and all of the things. I think we are much bigger sinners than we realize.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I got the idea when I read the title of your book\u2014your latest book, <em>Why Do I<\/em>\u2014<em>Why Do I<\/em>\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s the <em>longest<\/em> title in the history of books.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here we go! I\u2019ve got to do it <em>right<\/em>: <em>Why Do I Do What I Don\u2019t Want to Do? <\/em>I thought, \u201cIs this your memoir?\u201d Is this what this is?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes; that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>No, it\u2019s Paul\u2019s from Romans.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Actually, when I saw that, I thought, obviously, Romans 7.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I thought, \u201cI\u2019m going to write Dave\u2019s biography.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>There you go! That\u2019s it! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>But I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s <em>exactly <\/em>the question!\u201d And I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve felt the same way. I didn\u2019t come to Christ until I was a junior in college, raised by two alcoholic parents; so I was a <em>wild<\/em> man. I came to Christ, and I really had this thought as a junior in college\u2014I\u2019m on the football team, and I\u2019m thinking: \u201cI am so much worse than all these Christians\u201d (when I started to go to the Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>meetings). I didn\u2019t know what Cru was [before that]. I just thought, \u201cThey are so much better than I was and am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then, when I read Romans 7 for the first time\u2014I can almost tell you where I was in my dorm room\u2014I did not know that\u2019s in the Bible, where Paul says, \u201cI do what I don\u2019t want to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Most relatable chapter, for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes! The subtitle\u2014and you\u2019ve got to tell us what this all means, even though we\u2019ve read it, but our listeners haven\u2019t\u2014<em>Replace Deadly Vices with Life-Giving Virtues<\/em>. I <em>love<\/em> the way you balance the vice and the virtue.<\/p>\n<p>You know what? Some people don\u2019t even know what you do. You\u2019re down in Waco at\u00a0 Harris Creek Baptist Church. Tell our audience what you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, in the past, I got into ministry, focused on young adult ministry. A lot of what I do today is helping parents relate to their Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha child. Now I pastor a church, for the past five years, in Waco, Texas.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019ve been married how many years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Eighteen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>You have two daughters and a son; Weston\u2019s with you here today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I heard you married somebody just like my wife.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>They\u2019re twins, man. [Laughter] You wouldn\u2019t believe!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>They\u2019ve got to meet! They\u2019ve never met.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I need to <em>meet<\/em> her!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You don\u2019t need to\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You need to bring her <em>next <\/em>time. I know that would be fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>What\u2019s really fun is you are on our new <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>We\u2019re revamping that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, we\u2019ll talk about it a little bit later, but man, what a resource. It\u2019s going to change marriages.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s going to serve marriages all over the world; all of the country for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk vices.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You\u2019ve got a long list?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You go through ten, right?\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014from the seven deadly sins? Where did that come from?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That was the inspiration. [When] I grew up, there was a movie that came out about <em>The Seven Deadly Sins<\/em>. That\u2019s not in the Bible in the way that was packaged. It actually comes from a monk, Evagrius Ponticus, [who] packaged it. Thomas Aquinas re-packaged it. You kind of come up with the seven that we had.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s the inspiration behind the book: when you\u2019re doing ministry, you have a front-row seat to people wrecking their lives. You realize it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> a long list of vices that people choose from. It\u2019s not lists of hundreds or even dozens. It really is the same mold that they return to. There\u2019s a lot of overlap as you turn to the chapters. I think people pick up this book and think, \u201cMaybe there\u2019s going to be one or two chapters that relate to me.\u201d The number-one feedback that I got was, \u201cI didn\u2019t realize every single chapter was going to relate to me.\u201d It\u2019s because these are the ten vices that we come face to face,with every single week. These are the temptations that the enemy [often] uses to try to take out believers.<\/p>\n<p>We talk about the ancient battles and the modern wars as well; the book is split into the two. That\u2019s less relevant\u2014I mean, sin\u2019s always been sin; there have always been struggles; there have always been things that the enemy\u2019s used to try to take us out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>As you think of answering this question\u2014I know you could go right to<\/p>\n<p>Romans 8: \u201cThere\u2019s no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,\u201d\u2014but how would you answer it? <em>Why<\/em> do we do what we don\u2019t want to do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think of the ancient narrative\u2014of what I call \u201cThe Original Fall\u201d\u2014that angels are created beings and that God made angels as objects to worship Him. There was one who said, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t want to worship You. I want to be like You. I want to be God.\u201d He\u2019s sent to the earth, and that\u2019s the spirit of the air. The Scripture calls him \u201dthe god of this world\u201d the little \u201cg\u201d god of this world; the prince of the air. The Satanic influence of the world is: \u201cHey, I want to be a god.\u201d We go through life trying to be a god; we try to be as comfortable as we possibly can; to experience as much temporary pleasure as we possibly can; and to be as famous or known and respected as we possibly can.<\/p>\n<p>The interesting thing is, when you turn to Genesis 2, you see that God made us to be like Him. He made us in His image. Not just are we image-bearers, but really, we\u2019re rulers. He said, \u201cI want you to rule over the creatures of the land, the birds of the sky. I want you to name them; I want you to cultivate the land.\u201d You turn to the New Testament, and we\u2019re called to be reconcilers. He says, \u201cThis whole thing was lost because you sinned. I want you to begin to put it back together, to begin to show the world what was meant to be.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think that sin nature in me is still there; that every now and then, it shows up as selfish, self-centered, self-seeking, self-loving, self-exalting: \u201cI want to <em>be<\/em> God. I don\u2019t want to worship God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I remember I was in seminary, decades ago. I don\u2019t know how I ended up in this little house outside of San Bernardino, California to lead a high school Bible study. I don\u2019t know why I remember this, but I sit down with these 16- and 17-year-old kids. I say, \u201cOkay, guys, let\u2019s talk about sin.\u201d It was just boys. I say, \u201cWhy do we sin?\u201d It got really quiet. Finally, one guys says, \u201cWell, because we have a sin nature; and we\u2019re depraved,. He had all the theological answers to it. I say, \u201cThat\u2019s not the answer I thought you\u2019d give me.\u201d They\u2019re like [sounding surprised], \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d I say, \u201cWe sin because we <em>like<\/em> it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, we <em>love <\/em>it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s fun! There\u2019s something in us that\u2019s <em>drawn<\/em> to that. That\u2019s what you\u2019re saying: it\u2019s probably that desire to be in control: \u201cI want to be the god of my life,\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know if you guys have seen this, but I thought, \u201cI\u2019m pretty <em>decent<\/em>.\u201d I gave my life to Jesus in high school, and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m getting this down,\u201d and then I get married.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I\u2019m thinking,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014I know where this is going!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cDave has made me become this different person!\u201d Because I\u2019m realizing I have this anger; I have this frustration; I have control issues.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s a mirror, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s a <em>mirror<\/em>. Did you ever see that? in your marriage?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; I was told marriage is a mirror to show you how selfish you are. To experience that was like, \u201cWhoa, I got hit in the face.\u201d We almost didn\u2019t make it, year two. It\u2019s a part of our story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Did you think it was <em>your <\/em>problem or <em>her <\/em>problem?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>No, I thought it was <em>her <\/em>problem. [Laughter] I mean, all the things! I just remember I thought thoughts that are so embarrassing. And then, we had kids. We had a kid; our first kid.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That mirror got so big. It was like marriage put a mirror in front of me, and then we had <em>a<\/em> kid, a singular child. It was like you put four other marriage mirrors around you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Now, all of a sudden, anywhere you look, it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m the most selfish human being ever!\u201d [Laughter] The wife and the child just want to take away from my happiness. That\u2019s what it felt like. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And you know what I did, as a wife? I thought, \u201c<em>Dave<\/em> is the most selfish creature on the planet.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she was right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>But it was <em>me<\/em>! I<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>So, I think you are right. I think it <em>is<\/em> a mirror.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking about <em>why<\/em> we do what we do; there\u2019s definitely a sin nature that\u2019s there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>But when you come to Christ, you think, \u201cIt\u2019ll go away.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan and Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Hopefully, we\u2019re better; but it doesn\u2019t go away. I remember one time, we had an electric fence for our golden retriever. Duke, as we used to call him, was our homecoming queen; just this most obedient, wonderful dog. That electric fence worked; he <em>never <\/em>left the yard.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Until!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, our <em>neighbor<\/em> gets a dog and puts an electric fence, literally, a foot on their side. They have a fence; we have a fence. Their dog was Rusty; this was <em>years<\/em> ago. Rusty would come out in the backyard, and never cross over, but would just <em>bark<\/em>. Duke would get over there, and you could tell he wanted to go over and play with Rusty, but they both\u2014so, they just sit there and bark at each other. One day, I\u2019m not kidding, I look out\u2014I think I called you over and I said, because Duke kept getting closer, I said: \u201cI think he\u2019s going!\u201d It just looked like, \u201cI know this will hurt, but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cI\u2019m going to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>And he <em>did<\/em>; he just sort of backed up, and he started <em>sprinting<\/em>, and he <em>jumps<\/em> in the air. He literally\u2014you can tell he\u2019s\u2014bzzzzz\u2014and then, he\u2019s [trying to shake it off] running around. I sat there, and I thought, \u201cHe literally did that!\u201d Now, I don\u2019t know, but he literally decided\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014he counted the cost.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014he counted the cost!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014counted the cost, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cThe pain is worth the pleasure!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I, of course, as a preacher, I say, \u201cWe do that <em>every<\/em> day;\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Oh, man.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cbut the consequences are a lot worse,\u201d right? We just don\u2019t do it [refuse to act]. Here\u2019s the question: \u201c<em>Why<\/em> don\u2019t we get better?\u201d I mean, we <em>do<\/em>; we\u2019re <em>redeemed<\/em>. We\u2019re being sanctified, but we <em>still<\/em> do what we don\u2019t want to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I\u2019ve heard it explained as the carrot, the stick, and the donkey. If you think about the cartoon picture of someone dangling a carrot off a stick to make the donkey go, the donkey is our flesh. There\u2019s something in us that wants the carrot. The carrot is actually all that the world has to offer. We\u2019re in this temporary place, and the lusts of the flesh, right? the pride of life? the things that we\u2019re looking around, and we\u2019re saying, \u201cI <em>want<\/em> that.\u201d We have this flesh. You\u2019re baited with everything the world has to offer. The stick is the enemy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>The enemy comes along and sets it in front of you, and just says, \u201cHere, take and eat. Why wouldn\u2019t you?\u201d Like he does with Jesus when He's in the desert; he says, \u201cWhy don\u2019t You eat this bread? Look, all of this could be Yours!\u201d He\u2019s still running the same offense.<\/p>\n<p>I think, as long as we\u2019re under the sun\u2014until we\u2019re in that glorified state, until we\u2019re in the presence of God\u2014that temptation <em>never<\/em> goes away. There\u2019s always going to be the desires of the flesh [and] the enemy who lures us with the things of the world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s why it <em>feels<\/em> like we\u2019re not getting better. Also, experientially, I find this to be true: it seems like the closer we grow to Christ, the more we realize our sin.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s kind of like, when you start off, you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m not that bad. I\u2019m not that bad of a person.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>And then, as you grow closer and closer to Him\u2014as you begin to compare yourself to Him\u2014you\u2019re like, \u201cWow! I\u2019m <em>really<\/em> depraved. I\u2019m <em>really<\/em> fallen. I <em>really<\/em> need a Savior.\u201d Hopefully, our appreciation for Him, and the work He did on the cross, grows. We say, \u201cMan, I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> thankful that God rescued me from my depravity.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Me, too. Let\u2019s talk about the ancient battles, Part One of your book. Let\u2019s go through some of those.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, let\u2019s go.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You start with pride.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think C.S. Lewis said, \u201cIt\u2019s the vice or the sin that made the devil the devil.\u201d That\u2019s that narrative that we covered. I think it\u2019s still foundational to everything we do. All of these vices have overlaps. This one, especially, bleeds into every single one of them. If you think about why we get drunk, or why we\u2019re greedy, or why we lust\u2014or any of it\u2014pride is foundational to all of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, how do we get to\u2014the virtue is humility. How do we get there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I think the reason why it\u2019s bifurcated in that way. Every chapter deals with the vice and the virtue. I know you guys have a lot of exposure to church and have done ministry for a while and led churches. The way I think about is: so often, in church, it\u2019s like God is the God of \u201cDon\u2019ts.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave and Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You know, \u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em>\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em> have fun,\u201d \u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em> do this\u2026\u201d [Laughter] \u201cThou shalt <em>not<\/em> watch R-rated movies,\u201d \u201c\u2026.curse,\u201d \u201c\u2026consume alcohol,\u201d \u201c\u2026dance,\u201d or whatever the thing is. But what if we focused on\u2014and sometimes, I think we get stuck on defense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Me, too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cThou shalt not\u2026\u201d is the defense. It\u2019s like \u201cI\u2019m putting up my shield; I\u2019m praying; and I\u2019m just trying really, really hard not to sin.\u201d In trying really, really hard not to sin, I\u2019m not doing <em>anything<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat if, rather than trying hard not to be prideful, you just sought out to be humble?\u201d You said, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to be as humble as I can. I\u2019m going to <em>pursue<\/em> humility.\u201d Rather than trying <em>not<\/em> to do this, \u201cI\u2019m going to <em>pursue <\/em>the virtue that God calls us to,\u201d and you stay in that world. That\u2019s where you turn to 1 Peter 5. He says, \u201cClothe yourself, all of you, clothe yourself in humility, for God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Therefore, humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God so that, in due time, He may lift you up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>God\u2019s going to lift you up as you clothe yourself in humility. Why would I want to stay in this place where I\u2019m just trying <em>not <\/em>to be prideful? Why not try to be humble? That\u2019s the premise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you do that? What did it look like in actuality?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Just to pursue humility?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, I talk about a friend of mine, who, every day, he wakes up; he stands in his closet, and as he\u2019s getting dressed, he thinks about: \u201cWhat does my calendar look like today? What are my meetings? The Scripture calls me to clothe myself in humility.\u201d He looks at them, and he says, \u201cI\u2019m going to have to wear <em>a lot<\/em> of humility to that one.\u201d He kind of goes through [his schedule]. He says, \u201cWhat does that need to look like? What does it look like for me to be humble in those meetings?\u201d He lives in that future reality of, \u201cWhat does it look like for me to <em>pursue<\/em> humility with that person? Who is God calling me to be with that person?\u201d That\u2019s <em>one<\/em> of the practical things.<\/p>\n<p>Secondly, I would just say, \u201c<em>Serve<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, that\u2019s good!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Jesus says in Mark 10:45: \u201cFor the Son of Man did not come to <em>be<\/em> served, but to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many.\u201d The antidote to <em>trying <\/em>to be God is to say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be God! God is God! He\u2019s a better God than I will ever be. He\u2019s all-knowing; He\u2019s all-powerful. I\u2019m not all-knowing or all-powerful. He\u2019s got that job covered. How about I be the chief servant?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He leads His disciples through this narrative. He says, \u201cYou know those who are considered as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cYes! The Romans: they just want <em>power<\/em>.\u201d He says, \u201cBut <em>not so <\/em>with you.\u201d He says, \u201cWhoever wants to be first must be last. Whoever wants to be the chief has to be slave of all. The Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Somehow, that falls out of Sunday school or something. [Laughter] I think, as we seek to be Christians, we forget: \u201cOh, a bullseye for us is to be the chief servant,\u201d to literally go through life with eyes to see, \u201cWho can I serve?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And you may not <em>feel <\/em>like doing it or want to do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying, \u201cNo, I\u2019m going to make these steps to do it.\u201d I <em>love <\/em>the closet idea.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>He\u2019s getting ready, thinking through; to me, that\u2019s really praying.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking about <em>you<\/em>, JP. You\u2019re the lead pastor of a church; you\u2019re at the top. It\u2019s an easy place to be full of pride, because the lights are on you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, the people are looking at you. I remember I was teaching with my cofounder of the church back in Michigan, years ago, at a pastors\u2019 conference.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>[Laughter]I\u2019m laughing because of what happened. I\u2019m telling these guys, \u201cHey, people are going to want to crown you king\u2014it\u2019s Old Testament\u2014we want a king. People crown a <em>king<\/em>; they just want\u2014\"<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, honor culture.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I said, \u201cWhen that happens, you got to <em>reject<\/em> it. You\u2019re not the king...\u201d\u2014blah, blah, blah. I\u2019m not kidding! The <em>next <\/em>day, somebody posts on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> something [about] my cofounder, Steve. They said, \u201cSteve Andrews said, \u2018Yesterday was this great quote, \u201cSomebody is going to crown you king.\u201d I said, \u201cI <em>said<\/em> that! Steve <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> say that.\u201d [Laughter] There it was! I\u2019m like, \u201cLook at me!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong><em>Who cares <\/em>who said it? But I was like, \u201cI should get the credit for the quote.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s <em>still <\/em>in there.\u201d You\u2019re right; I think the antidote is [to] serve. Set up the chairs; tear the chairs down. Don\u2019t just be the guy behind the mic, getting all the\u2014am I right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes! And I want to be king. I want to be king. I just want to confess to the world that there\u2019s a part of me that wants to be king. The church that we now lead is this <em>amazing<\/em> gathering of a group of people, God\u2019s people, in the country outside of Waco. [We\u2019re in an] almost 150-year-old Baptist church in the country.<\/p>\n<p>As we moved there\u2014and it\u2019s such a big shift for us\u2014I got on that stage with my family. I said, \u201cIf you are tempted to put me on a pedestal, I <em>promise<\/em> you, I\u2019m going to fall off. Because what you see is what you get, and I\u2019m not going to tell my kids that they need to act right in front of you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cI\u2019m going to raise them to be respectful, but there\u2019s a <em>difference<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave and Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> \u201cI don\u2019t want to teach them perception management. Our family is going to disappoint you. We\u2019re <em>not<\/em> going to manage perception.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll give you something really practical, to go back to your question of, \u201cWhat does it look like?\u201d And this I\u2019ve missed <em>way <\/em>more than I\u2019ve gotten this right; but just this morning, we pulled into the parking lot. There\u2019s a front-row spot. There\u2019s two ways to think about that, right? I can think, \u201cOh, look at the Lord! Won\u2019t He do it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Sorry, but that\u2019s what I do, JP! \u201cThanks, Jesus!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cHe gave me a front-row seat, man.\u201d [Laughter] I can take that spot, <em>or<\/em> something that is even <em>better<\/em>\u2014and I think God made us for this\u2014is, I can say, \u201cOh, man, somebody is going to get that!\u201d (Maybe it\u2019s you!) [Laughter] \u201cSomebody\u2019s going to be so excited they got that front-row seat. I want them to have it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then you take that next\u2014I said seat; parking spot\u2014you take that third or fourth [spot]; maybe you walk a little bit and get some exercise. You give it to someone else, and no one knows that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I mean, now, we\u2019re telling the whole world, but before this, no one would have known that, right? That\u2019s what it looks like! Those kinds of decisions; God is calling us to be a servant. \u201cHow can we serve others?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Let me ask you this\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014well, let me say, too, first: that reminds me of Paul saying, \u201cI beat my flesh and make it my slave.\u201d It reminds me of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014\"so I won\u2019t be disqualified from the race.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was thinking this, JP: I have found it is easier for me to do that at church, as a leader, than it is in my home.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I walk in my home, and there\u2019s a part of me that wants to be king.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Right, right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s like, \u201cHey!\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t snap my fingers, but it\u2019s like\u2014\u201cHey, is anybody going to make me a Coke<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>?\u201d And yet, of <em>all<\/em> the places to serve, and to model for my kids what it looks like to be a servant-leader husband,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014you sound like my wife right now. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>What\u2019s that mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u201cWe need to teach them to do chores,\u201d right? She\u2019s like, \u201cWell, the way to teach them to do chores is to <em>do<\/em> chores.\u201d [Laughter] I think she, appropriately, said, \u201cIf you just kind of bark at them to do the chores, I think that is going create some bitterness.\u201d And I\u2019m the same way. It\u2019s like I want that in my home\u2014I want to teach them respect; I want to teach them. . . \u2014that\u2019s how you do it. She said, \u201cI think you\u2019re going to have to lead by example here, too.\u201d That\u2019s my job.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, you know what? You must be doing a decent job, because at lunch today, there were a lot of us. Your 11-year-old son, Weston, gathered all the plates at the table and took them to the sink.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>But you know who <em>didn\u2019t<\/em>? This guy, right? His dad!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>His mom\u2019s a good teacher. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>No, I was thinking, \u201cHe\u2019s probably watched both his mom and his dad serve.\u201d That was pretty telling to me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>You can tell lot about a person from their kids! Not that that\u2019s the only\u2014but it\u2019s an indicator.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure, it\u2019s not the only way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>People are cringing just now, like, \u201cIs it right now?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>We all know it\u2019s a lot of grace.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>JP, just give us a <em>baby<\/em> step. You\u2019ve given us a bunch of really practical things, but just for right now\u2014a person\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t know,\u201d\u2014give us a little baby step.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jonathan Pokluda on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You\u2019ll hear more from Jonathan about the next baby step you can take here in just a second. But I wanted to let you know that JP, or Jonathan Pokluda, has written a book called <em>Why Do I Do What I Don\u2019t Want to Do?<\/em> Sound familiar? It\u2019s from Scripture. The subtitle of his book is called <em>Replace Deadly Vices with Life-Giving Virtues<\/em>. It gives you some practical advice on how to do that to overcome the cycle of self-destructive bad habits you have.<\/p>\n<p>This book is going to be our gift to you when you partner with us financially. You can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com or give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Feel free to drop us something in the mail if you would like to also. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.<\/p>\n<p>Have you ever wondered what your marriage is for? \u201cWhat is it actually for?\u201d Are you wanting to get more out of what you\u2019ve got? Almost everybody would answer, \u201cYes,\u201d to that. Well, you can join Aaron and Jamie Ivey, Vivian Mabuni, and other <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>contributors this Wednesday, November 1<sup>st<\/sup>. It\u2019s going to be a night of marriage enrichment that you don\u2019t want to miss. You can register at FamilyLife.com\/ComingSoon or at the link in our show notes.<\/p>\n<p>Okay, here\u2019s Jonathan Pokluda about a baby step you can take to overcome the cycle of bad habits in your life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>It\u2019s changing the way you think. Think about that sin, that vice, that\u2019s eating your lunch right now, that you\u2019re thinking, \u201cI\u2019m just having the <em>most<\/em> difficult time getting on top of this. It feels like I\u2019m going to struggle with this forever. I feel so defeated in this area.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It might be materialism: you go on Amazon<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and you just can\u2019t resist clicking; you can\u2019t resist buying. You see the sales, and you can\u2019t resist walking in [the stores]. It may be lust. You\u2019re chasing hash tags; you\u2019re going to websites you know you shouldn\u2019t; or you\u2019re constantly having the second looks, or you\u2019re fantasizing in your mind, right? It might be alcohol. You know that you\u2019re drinking more than you should. You\u2019re getting to this place where you\u2019re trying to hide it, and you\u2019re sneaking it.<\/p>\n<p>Whatever it is, you\u2019re keeping a secret. Think about what the counterpart to that is: \u201cWhat is the life that God is calling you to?\u201d Because if you stay in that mindset of sin, you begin to think, \u201cMan, God wants to rip me off. He wants to keep good from me.\u201d But if you can really embrace this idea that: \u201cNo, He wants to set me free. He wants to give me something <em>better<\/em> than what I have. He wants to give me\u2014or restore\u2014what the enemy is trying to take from me right now. What is it that He is calling me to? What is the virtue\u2014the virtuous life\u2014that He is calling me to?\u201d You begin to pursue that.<\/p>\n<p>You see this in James 1:19. He says, \u201cBe quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry, for a person\u2019s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.\u201d When I give into these vices, I\u2019m actually <em>missing<\/em> <em>out<\/em> on the righteous life that God desires. I\u2019m not talking about the salvific truth. We understand Christ\u2019s righteousness is imputed upon us because of His work; but He calls us to live life by the Spirit and to put to death the deeds of the flesh. That\u2019s where the practical\u2014it\u2019s a little bit ethereal; it\u2019s a little bit of a mind work, but I would begin to think: \u201cWhat is the counterpart to the thing that I continue to fall into, and how can I pursue that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Shelby: <\/strong>The battle with lust, embracing authenticity, and overcoming cynicism with optimism\u2014those sound like problems that maybe a lot of us have. Well, JP did as well. Dave and Ann Wilson are going to be joined by him in the studio again tomorrow to talk about all that and much more. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2023 FamilyLife. 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