{"id":307752,"date":"2023-05-29T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-05-29T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/where-is-god-in-my-pain-lina-abujamra-2\/"},"modified":"2023-05-29T09:15:00","modified_gmt":"2023-05-29T13:15:00","slug":"where-is-god-in-my-pain-lina-abujamra-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/where-is-god-in-my-pain-lina-abujamra-2\/","title":{"rendered":"&#8220;Where is God In My Pain?&#8221; Lina Abujamra"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Where is God when your heart is breaking? Lina Abujamra&#8217;s life was suddenly nothing like she&#8217;d planned. But now, instantaneously single, she discovered she wasn&#8217;t alone at all.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p>\tVisit Lina&#8217;s website at livingwithpower.org<br \/>\n\tLina&#8217;s facebook: @livingwithpower<br \/>\n\tPurchase Lina&#8217;s book: Fractured Faith: Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction<br \/>\n\tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n\tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n\tHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n\tCheck out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Lina Abujamra&#8217;s life was suddenly nothing like she&#8217;d planned. Where is God when your heart&#8217;s breaking? She writes of fractured faith&mdash;and a God who showed up.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-29.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:29","filesize":"52.16M","filesize_raw":"54692425","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846,2093],"tags":[2324],"podcast_series":[8636],"cwp_profile":[9861],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307752","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","category-women","tag-where-is-god","podcast_series-fractured-faith-finding-my-way-back-to-god-lina-abujamra","cwp_profile-lina-abujamra","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307752\/where-is-god-in-my-pain-lina-abujamra-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307752\/where-is-god-in-my-pain-lina-abujamra-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Bry3Fq7MHg\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/where-is-god-in-my-pain-lina-abujamra-2\/\">&#8220;Where is God In My Pain?&#8221; Lina Abujamra<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/where-is-god-in-my-pain-lina-abujamra-2\/embed\/#?secret=Bry3Fq7MHg\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;&#8220;Where is God In My Pain?&#8221; Lina Abujamra&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Bry3Fq7MHg\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-29.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-29.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> David Robbins here, president of <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u00ae. I wanted to let you know how important you are\u2014you, as a listener, who hear and apply the biblical grace and truth and dive deeper into your relationship with God and the relationships in your home and your family. That is the reason why we are here and we do what we do at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>. You are the people who help others pursue the relationships that matter most. And you can help every home be a godly home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you haven\u2019t already joined us as a <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partner, now is the time. We have some incredible partners who come alongside us with a matching gift for the month of May to anyone who gives a monthly gift. We\u2019re trusting God for 350 new <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partners to give monthly in an ongoing way, and your contribution will be doubled for an entire year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that a lot of people don\u2019t know is that our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partners get some amazing benefits. You\u2019ll not only receive a gift card to attend the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> <em>marriage getaway<\/em> anywhere in the United States at our 80 locations, you\u2019ll also be invited to an exclusive online community with live online events with many of our team of voices like Dave and Ann and many others. As well, you get access to a brand-new, curated library of resources to help you connect more deeply with the relationships on topics that we know that are the topics that people are asking about today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you join us as a <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partner, Meg and I look forward to connecting with you at one of the online events soon. We appreciate you, and thanks for engaging with <em>FamilyLife<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I read a quote in a book that we\u2019re going to talk about today, and I thought that this so resonates with the Christian experience. Do you know what quote I\u2019m going to read?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You read the book, too!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I know. But I want to hear it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This just jumped off the page. You know the author who wrote this: \u201cMy inability to see God in my pain is rooted in the fact that I\u2019m not really looking for God. I\u2019m looking for a god to show up in the way I want him to show up and to give me what I want him to give me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m like, \u201cThat is so true.\u201d We don\u2019t talk about it, but that, I think, is at the heart of our struggle when we\u2019re in pain with God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. And your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, who do we have in here today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have with us Lina Abujamra. Lina, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Well done on saying my name! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Notice I threw it to you to say it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did notice. [Laughter] Your book is called <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>, which is a great title. The subtitle is <em>Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes. I\u2019m a doctor, so \u201cfractured faith\u201d was fitting on a number of reasons. It really concisely says what this book is about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What kind of doctor?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Pediatric ER. I boarded in both specialties and have been practicing it for awhile!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You do a lot of different things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes, you know it\u2019s morphed over the years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> I finished pediatric ER training back some 20 years ago, and I felt God\u2019s call to the ministry while I was doing my fellowship, actually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina: <\/strong>Yes. I was actually coming through what I think was my first big faith crisis. I was engaged in my residency and broke off the engagement two weeks before the wedding, which comes up in <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Whoa, whoa! You\u2019ve got to explain that a little bit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> I know! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You just laid a bomb out there\u2014two weeks before your wedding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I read it in your book, but I\u2019m like, \u201cThat was\u2026.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s true. It\u2019s funny\u2014you can say it quickly and gloss over it, but it really a pastoral thing to pick up on. But it\u2019s true; it was very shaping\u2014it was shocking in some ways. The hardest part of that whole journey was not so much that I ended the engagement. It ended up being a mutual decision. It was the right decision, but behind it was this friendship I had with a Christian young man who honestly deepened my soul. I thought he was the one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt God had spoken about this person forever. We spoke all the time; we were really good friends. We were living in the same city at the time. He ended up marrying someone else, and that gutted me, honestly. I couldn\u2019t even tell that story for maybe ten years. It was like I went through it. People around me all knew, like people who were close to me understood, but I don\u2019t know\u2026.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because it was so painful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> It was glossed over. It was so painful because we never dated; it was like a person who was your best friend. What were you going to say? The whole thing was a mess. And I was the one who had gotten engaged to someone else. There\u2019s so much in there, but the relational thing with God was that in my soul I felt like God had this person for me; even allowing me to break off another engagement two weeks before the wedding, really mutually reached that place, which was already a big decision. It felt like God was confirming what I thought He had for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I went to fellowship really heartbroken. By then I knew that there wasn\u2019t a quick answer to the solution, but I still held on hope that God was going to bring that person back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you feel like it was God\u2019s will?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes! I had a verse! Like, if you grew up in a Christian home where you read your Bible and circled verses\u2014I was a committed believer! I had lived right to the best of my ability. You know, you always have a rolodex of all the sins in your mind, and of course, God\u2019s punishing me for\u2026. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut by and large, I had been as pure as pure can be. I hadn\u2019t willfully sinned in those big, dark ways that you think about. I really thought that God was testing me and that even when I went to fellowship, this guy wasn\u2019t engaged or married or dating anybody at that time. I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s going to be a matter of time before God brings him.\u201d The longer it went, then I heard he started dating this girl who he had dated before. With every passing month, it was evident that this wasn\u2019t going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that first year of fellowship when I was training to be a pediatric ER doctor was really, really hard. It was a lot of wrestling with God to try and understand why He would set me up for disappointment that way. It felt that, this was between God and me. Yes, I was mad about the guy, but I felt like, \u201cGod, You\u2019re the One who told me. You had all those years to make this happen, and You didn\u2019t.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI still a good enough Christian to read my Bible everyday. But sometimes you do that more because there isn\u2019t a fear of God in you, but you\u2019re afraid God will punish you if you don\u2019t. So, you\u2019re still trying to be a good person even though you have all of this angst in your soul. I remember a time in those six months when it was all sort of playing out, where it was becoming evident that this was not going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that point, I was reading in the minor prophets, and I think this was a turning point for me. I hit the book of Hosea. Hosea is a great, great book, of course. <em>Redeeming Love<\/em>, the movie came out. A lot of people may be familiar with the story from that now. It\u2019s the story of unrequited love, but a committed God. I remember feeling like I was in a deep, deep wilderness and darkness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's interesting, because since then, I visited that place again, but for whatever reason, I thought\u2014I don\u2019t know that I could\u2019ve processed this\u2014but I remember thinking, \u201cWhy, God?\u201d That was the first time I saw Hosea chapter 2 verse 14 that says, \u201cBehold, God allures Israel into the wilderness, and there He will turn the valley of trouble into a place of hope.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe fact that God lovingly leads the one He loves to the wilderness just was more than my mind could handle. Even now, I am struck with the emotion of it. I remember starting to see God\u2019s love in that space. The truth is that as Christians, we like the scenario, we like the narrative that says, \u201cAnd then eventually the guy showed up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann and Dave:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> And that never happened. He met someone else. He has a happy family. They\u2019re my Facebook friends; we\u2019ve moved on. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s been an awkward conversation when they\u2019ve read my subsequent books. [Laughter] But the truth is that this wasn\u2019t part of God\u2019s plan for my life. To believe and understand that what I\u2019m living is not Plan B. It\u2019s not like God\u2019s like, \u201cOh, darn. Now I\u2019ve got to figure out what to do with Lina\u2019s life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think for awhile, and part of the set up to my big crisis that led me to write <em>Fractured Faith<\/em> is that I think you sort of feel that you\u2019ve paid your dues, first of all. So, you\u2019ve done your big disappointment with God, so now you\u2019re grown to other things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re mature now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You don\u2019t need to go through it again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> At least not to that level, like you see crisis. But not like this. Also, I think you start to feel like you should know better at that point. For me, when I went through this next season of darkness, it felt like you go back to this contractual relationship with God where you feel like, \u201cGod, I\u2019ve done my part in this Christian life. Why aren\u2019t you doing Yours.\u201d I think we apply it in every way, not just in our love life but in our daily Christian life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, we definitely do it. It\u2019s back to your quote. I think I resonated with your quote so strongly because I\u2019ve done it. \u201cI want the God to give me what I want.\u201d I expect it, sort of, because I\u2019ve earned it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been good!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve paid my dues; He sort of owes me; I\u2019ve been good. Surely it can\u2019t just keep being painful; there\u2019s going to be a turn. Sometimes\u2026.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Also, Lina, there comes a point where I think a lot of listeners will resonate, \u201cDid I hear God wrong?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> You start to second guess yourself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. You\u2019re wondering if you\u2019re not doing things right. You\u2019re continually second guessing and wondering, \u201cWhere is my relationship with God?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> If you follow social media at all, the last couple of years, a lot of conversation on social media will do things\u2014they\u2019ll take Jeremiah 29:11. The verses talk about God giving you a hope and an expected end. You\u2019ve got half of the Christian world that says, \u201cYou can\u2019t apply it to yourself because this is about Israel!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s out of context. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> So, you\u2019re kind of going, \u201cOh. I guess that\u2019s why nothing good has happened in my life.\u201d Then, on the other side, you have others that are like, \u201cNo!\u00a0 You can embrace it for yourself.\u201d I do believe that Scripture is meant to be personal. Do we overinterpret it? Sure! Do we try to make it glossy and rosy and all about me? Of course!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think God constantly reminds us that there\u2019s a bigger story. And by the way, the bigger story is better than we think! Even if it means I\u2019m still single. Our big \u201ca ha\u201d isn\u2019t that you get married and live happily every after. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s not the bow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> That\u2019s not it! I always tell people that when Lazarus got woke up from the dead, the story isn\u2019t that Lazarus woke up from the dead, the story is that Jesus. Period. The story isn\u2019t that Peter walked on water. We think that\u2019s the story. The story is Jesus. I think this is the quote that you just read at the beginning. It\u2019s that. We make it about me coming out of the tomb, me walking on water, me marrying happily ever after, [Laughter] my own little Hallmark<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> movie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Our story. It\u2019s His story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Jesus is the secondary character, and it\u2019s like, \u201cNo. He\u2019s it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> We say it. We say the reason is that He\u2019s enough, He\u2019s all. But we don\u2019t really believe it. This was a jarring \u201ca ha\u201d moment for me, when I sort of wake up and realize, \u201cWow. I say a lot of things that I don\u2019t really live and believe.\u201d Ever crisis that God has allowed me to enter\u2014and not just allowed--but led me into\u2014I think has been an invitation into decluttering, killing the idols, and then a renewing of this passionate relationship that He wants with us\u2014that I think exceeds every relationship here on this Earth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven, as I\u2019ve had a chance to meet you. You\u2019re so happily married, and it\u2019s\u2019 clear you have a deep relationship with each other. And who doesn\u2019t want that, humanly. But I think we can have more with Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But Dave is not my hero. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> That\u2019s it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What?! [Laughter] What are you talking about? I am your hero!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re my hero, but Jesus is my first hero. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I am very, very flawed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I made Dave my hero, I was sorely disappointed. I think everyone is, when they put anything in place of Jesus as an idol.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> This is why so many marriages are not succeeding because I think you think, \u201cIf I meet the one, then everything will be fine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGoing back to that, when I was in that season in Jacksonville, and I started teaching, that was a turning point\u2014Hosea. I started seeing God soften my heart to His goodness, and I eventually\u2014again, by God\u2019s grace; this is how you know that the story\u2019s not yours\u2014how would I end up then, in that season, teaching a Sunday school class. That was the pivotal point. I felt God calling me to ministry, and I did not know what that would look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI didn\u2019t feel God wanted me to bail on medicine, so I somehow knew I would be bivocational. It was intuitive in me. I just thought I\u2019d do both. I\u2019d be like Luke, you know, the guy in the Bible, the doctor. And there were others who did two things\u2014Paul, the Apostle, and I just figured I\u2019d do both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about that call. What happened? How did you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Well, I tell you. It\u2019s a couple of things. I think that\u2019s a really good question. I think a lot of people are trying find out what they are supposed to be doing in life, and they assume, \u201cOh, you\u2019ve been called to ministry; therefore, you have a job, and we don\u2019t.\u201d A job in the Kingdom, and we don\u2019t. I think that\u2019s so false.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> First of all, I was a doctor. There was no reason to think that I\u2019d get a \u201ccall.\u201d All it was for me, was this. First of all, I fell in love with teaching the Bible, more than anything else I\u2019d ever done in church. What that looked like to me was taking Scripture and creating messages that brought it to life and applied in a very understandable way. Just brought it to life; I don\u2019t know how else to say it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI enjoyed the process of creating a sermon, really. I was doing it in the context of a woman\u2019s Sunday school. At the time I was dabbling with writing some newsletters. I knew I had a gift there, so you start seeing your gift. You start doing something, and you see your giftedness. To me, I knew there was maybe something in writing because I would catch all people in church reading the newsletter that I had written for the women in my 30 people Sunday school class. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI never thought about it; I didn\u2019t think I was going to write books at the time. But I loved that moment when I would get up and teach the Bible. I wanted to do it. Now I was praying, \u201cGod\u2026.\u201d Already I was committed to God, and I wanted to live for Him. I loved doing this! \u201cWhat do you want me to do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s almost inevitable! This is my gift now, as a mature Christian who understands, \u201cTeaching\u2019s one of the gifts! God\u2019s given you the gift of teaching!\u201d It\u2019s so evident. To me, when you\u2019re asking God so much, \u201cUse me, use me, use me, use me. Here I am, Lord, send me,\u201d He\u2019s going to show you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the last 20 some years of my life have been wrestling with what that calling looks like\u2014from writing books, to doing podcasts; even now, doing global work in the Middle East.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What\u2019s your ministry called?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> It\u2019s called <em>Living with Power<\/em>. You can find it at <em>livingwithpower.org<\/em>. For awhile it was as a woman\u2019s ministry director at a megachurch, which is sort of the backdrop of <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>. It\u2019s all of those things, which have been my pursuit of teaching God\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWord to people wherever I can in a way that brings us closer to Him and creating a space for revival. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that backdrop; you just sort of dropped it out there, [Laughter] of <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>. I love the thought of this deconstruction\/reconstruction. We\u2019ve got to get there eventually, too, but I\u2019m sure it\u2019s in the story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because in an age of deconstruction, many people are leaving the faith when they\u2019ve experienced pain or fracture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes. That word \u201cdeconstruction\u201d is taken on its own. No one knew what that meant years ago. Now I think people don\u2019t know for sure what that means. Deconstruction is a season where we question the goodness of God, honestly, is how I would summarize it. Basically, it\u2019s a season where the things that have happened in your life related to Christianity and the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst of all, you don\u2019t deconstruct if you\u2019re not a Christian. That\u2019s a premise. You are in some way related to the church and Christianity. Deconstruct, by the way, is a literary word and it was not applied to the church, but in the last, let\u2019s say, five years, it\u2019s become a church and Christian word. It has been applied to a situation where you used to believe certain things about God and Christianity, and you don\u2019t anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome legitimate deconstruction is rooted in things that you shouldn\u2019t have believed. That\u2019s what I bring up a lot in my book. And others, I believe, where things have taken on a cultural tone that has landed people away from the faith. Then you can debate were they ever Christians or not when a person walks away to that degree from their faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhether you use the word deconstruction or not, there\u2019s a lot of Biblical content that talks about people who\u2014even Jesus talking about the seed. There\u2019s a seed that gets thrown in four different grounds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll this to say, I left my fellowship convinced of a couple of things\u2014that God wanted me to practice medicine and that God wanted me in full-time ministry. How they would work out, I didn\u2019t know. So, when God quickly moved me away from Jacksonville into Chicago, where I still live\u2014it\u2019s been 22 years now I\u2019ve been in Chicago\u2014it was a season of my life where I wrote a lot of poetry because it comes out of angst. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBasically, I started doing what I could where I could. I always talked to people about living out their call. I\u2019d say, \u201cYou\u2019re not going to wake up with a big ministry. Just do what you can where you can.\u201d To me, it did look like writing in my private room because I wanted to communicate God\u2019s word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAround that time, the cultural things that were happening were people had blogs\u2014I started a blog. Then, I started looking for a local church. It took me a couple of years, but when I finally found the church, it felt like it was the best church I\u2019d ever been at. Next things I knew I was teaching in some capacity. Next thing I knew I was the woman\u2019s ministry director in what is now looked at as a megachurch in a movement when megachurches were on the rise. That pastor was a megafamous pastor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Which is pretty remarkable, because you\u2019re still an ER doctor and pediatrician.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Well, [Laughter] it\u2019s interesting. When I looked at the ministry God has given me, and I\u2019ve spent a lot of time questioning, because when you have another job, it\u2019s easy to fall back on it and say, \u201cMaybe I misheard God.\u201d You go back to, \u201cHow do you know?\u201d I would constantly, and I\u2019m still tempted to go, \u201cMaybe I\u2019m supposed to be a doctor,\u201d because I haven\u2019t had the level of \u201csuccess\u201d that these other people have had. You know, success and significance in ministry is a whole other section in ministry that we can talk about in this. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you are\u2014you\u2019re given the success sometimes if you look at horizontal ministry that you\u2019re not successful if you\u2019re not growing. Even that pastor in that church would say, \u201cHealthy things grow,\u201d so you felt bad if you weren\u2019t growing. Healthy things grow, but healthy things hibernate. Healthy things get pruned and purged, and all this stuff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStepping into that, it always felt like God was confirming the ministry call by opening doors that I couldn\u2019t open on my own. I would just walk through them, a lot of times with questions and with fears and with, \u201cReally, God? This is it? Why don\u2019t you do it more?\u201d Visionaries have this problem, because we see the end results, it\u2019s hard to slow down and allow God to shape what needs to be shaped here, personally, in my own self, before I\u2019m able to go there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, I don\u2019t think you see yet stuff, practically, in 2002. How could I ever have imagined a world that we had a cell phone where you could do ministry in? In 2010, how could we have ever imagined a world where there were Syrian refugees in my home country of Lebanon, that God would want me to start someday. You couldn\u2019t even write the book because you didn\u2019t know what was going to happen. Things that only God knows.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, how can you then judge God, because you haven\u2019t lived those things yet? It\u2019s like toddlers\u2014I don\u2019t mean it like honestly, if someone\u2019s listening and you\u2019re wrestling with your faith\u2014I don\u2019t think God says, \u201cOh, you\u2019re like a little toddler.\u201d God is so much more compassionate with us. Now I look and think my reactions to the waiting, my reactions to the disappointment, in hindsight feel like what I watch with my eight-year-old nephew, how he interacts with his mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Especially when you like to know the plan, and you\u2019re a planner and you\u2019re strategizing the future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s my question as we wrap this one. For the person listening that\u2019s in your first fracture\u2014which, it could be a relationship like you had; it could be some other expectation, \u201cI thought God would, but He hasn\u2019t.\u201d What would you say? Just one thought for that person, right where they are right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> \u201cJust wait.\u201d I hate that advice, in a way. But honestly, just wait. Don\u2019t react; don\u2019t run\u2014you know, the fight or flight response is so intuitive to all of us. We want to quit the faith. Just wait. Just sit still; it\u2019s what God told the people of Israel so often\u2014just wait; sit still and see the victory that God\u2019s preparing. I really believe it\u2019s coming. The fact that you\u2019re even listening is part of God\u2019s working in your life right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things I love about your story is how you didn\u2019t pull away from God. You kept in His Word. Many times, what we can do is reject God or be mad at Him, and we will not get in the Word where it is. When I\u2019m in the Word\u2014I have to be because it reminds me of His faithfulness, of His goodness. But it\u2019s also that place where God is speaking to me and I\u2019m reminded He is loving. He is with me; He is patient. He is holy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is a little bit, I think, like walking in a gym when you don\u2019t want to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann and Lina: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you said that, I thought, there\u2019s somebody listening right now who\u2019s thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t want to open His Word. I\u2019m mad; I\u2019m hurt. I\u2019m angry.\u201d Open the Word even though you don\u2019t want to and say, \u201cGod, I need to find You. I need to see You. Will You speak?\u201d I think He\u2019ll meet you there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Hi, I\u2019m Shelby Abbot, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Lina Abujamra on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. For many of us, somewhere along the way, the Christianity we knew began to crumble. Lina has communicated to us today and encouraged us that we can find our way back to God and in the process we might just discover that the real God has been waiting for us all along. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLina Abujamra has written a book called <em>Fractured Faith, Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction<\/em>. If you or a loved one are wrestling with deconstruction and questioning your faith in several ways or just minor ways, you can head over today at FamilyLifeToday.com and pick up a copy of Lina\u2019s book. I know it will be helpful as you wrestle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re down to the last three days of the month of May. This has been a super special month for us here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em> because of the matching program that a partner has generously donated to us here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>. That means when you give a gift to <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, every gift you give is going to be matched dollar for dollar. For example, if you make a $50 donation, the donation is actually going to turn into $100. That\u2019s only going to happen for the next three days here in the month of May. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWould your home be able to give hope to somebody who feels hopeless today? We\u2019re looking for 350 new partners this month to join <em>FamilyLife<\/em> as a donor. Perhaps God is calling you to be one of those partners. If that\u2019s the case, go online today to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you could give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that\u2019s 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, Lina Abujamra is joined again with Dave and Ann Wilson in the studio to talk about the wrestling with deconstruction at a point when she felt like God didn\u2019t deliver for her\u2014He actually failed her, and how she spiraled in that process. But how she also found hope. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor supported production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a <em>Cru<\/em><a id=\"_Hlk135747114\"><sup>\u00ae <\/sup><\/a>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:29"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["52.16M"],"filesize_raw":["54692425"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307752.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307752.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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Abujamra's life was suddenly nothing like she'd planned. Where is God when your heart's breaking? She writes of fractured faith&mdash;and a God who showed up.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-29.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> David Robbins here, president of <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u00ae. I wanted to let you know how important you are\u2014you, as a listener, who hear and apply the biblical grace and truth and dive deeper into your relationship with God and the relationships in your home and your family. That is the reason why we are here and we do what we do at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>. You are the people who help others pursue the relationships that matter most. And you can help every home be a godly home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you haven\u2019t already joined us as a <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partner, now is the time. We have some incredible partners who come alongside us with a matching gift for the month of May to anyone who gives a monthly gift. We\u2019re trusting God for 350 new <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partners to give monthly in an ongoing way, and your contribution will be doubled for an entire year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that a lot of people don\u2019t know is that our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partners get some amazing benefits. You\u2019ll not only receive a gift card to attend the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> <em>marriage getaway<\/em> anywhere in the United States at our 80 locations, you\u2019ll also be invited to an exclusive online community with live online events with many of our team of voices like Dave and Ann and many others. As well, you get access to a brand-new, curated library of resources to help you connect more deeply with the relationships on topics that we know that are the topics that people are asking about today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you join us as a <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partner, Meg and I look forward to connecting with you at one of the online events soon. We appreciate you, and thanks for engaging with <em>FamilyLife<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I read a quote in a book that we\u2019re going to talk about today, and I thought that this so resonates with the Christian experience. Do you know what quote I\u2019m going to read?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You read the book, too!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I know. But I want to hear it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This just jumped off the page. You know the author who wrote this: \u201cMy inability to see God in my pain is rooted in the fact that I\u2019m not really looking for God. I\u2019m looking for a god to show up in the way I want him to show up and to give me what I want him to give me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m like, \u201cThat is so true.\u201d We don\u2019t talk about it, but that, I think, is at the heart of our struggle when we\u2019re in pain with God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. And your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, who do we have in here today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have with us Lina Abujamra. Lina, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Well done on saying my name! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Notice I threw it to you to say it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did notice. [Laughter] Your book is called <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>, which is a great title. The subtitle is <em>Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes. I\u2019m a doctor, so \u201cfractured faith\u201d was fitting on a number of reasons. It really concisely says what this book is about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What kind of doctor?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Pediatric ER. I boarded in both specialties and have been practicing it for awhile!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You do a lot of different things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes, you know it\u2019s morphed over the years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> I finished pediatric ER training back some 20 years ago, and I felt God\u2019s call to the ministry while I was doing my fellowship, actually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina: <\/strong>Yes. I was actually coming through what I think was my first big faith crisis. I was engaged in my residency and broke off the engagement two weeks before the wedding, which comes up in <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Whoa, whoa! You\u2019ve got to explain that a little bit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> I know! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You just laid a bomb out there\u2014two weeks before your wedding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I read it in your book, but I\u2019m like, \u201cThat was\u2026.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s true. It\u2019s funny\u2014you can say it quickly and gloss over it, but it really a pastoral thing to pick up on. But it\u2019s true; it was very shaping\u2014it was shocking in some ways. The hardest part of that whole journey was not so much that I ended the engagement. It ended up being a mutual decision. It was the right decision, but behind it was this friendship I had with a Christian young man who honestly deepened my soul. I thought he was the one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt God had spoken about this person forever. We spoke all the time; we were really good friends. We were living in the same city at the time. He ended up marrying someone else, and that gutted me, honestly. I couldn\u2019t even tell that story for maybe ten years. It was like I went through it. People around me all knew, like people who were close to me understood, but I don\u2019t know\u2026.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because it was so painful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> It was glossed over. It was so painful because we never dated; it was like a person who was your best friend. What were you going to say? The whole thing was a mess. And I was the one who had gotten engaged to someone else. There\u2019s so much in there, but the relational thing with God was that in my soul I felt like God had this person for me; even allowing me to break off another engagement two weeks before the wedding, really mutually reached that place, which was already a big decision. It felt like God was confirming what I thought He had for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I went to fellowship really heartbroken. By then I knew that there wasn\u2019t a quick answer to the solution, but I still held on hope that God was going to bring that person back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you feel like it was God\u2019s will?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes! I had a verse! Like, if you grew up in a Christian home where you read your Bible and circled verses\u2014I was a committed believer! I had lived right to the best of my ability. You know, you always have a rolodex of all the sins in your mind, and of course, God\u2019s punishing me for\u2026. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut by and large, I had been as pure as pure can be. I hadn\u2019t willfully sinned in those big, dark ways that you think about. I really thought that God was testing me and that even when I went to fellowship, this guy wasn\u2019t engaged or married or dating anybody at that time. I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s going to be a matter of time before God brings him.\u201d The longer it went, then I heard he started dating this girl who he had dated before. With every passing month, it was evident that this wasn\u2019t going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that first year of fellowship when I was training to be a pediatric ER doctor was really, really hard. It was a lot of wrestling with God to try and understand why He would set me up for disappointment that way. It felt that, this was between God and me. Yes, I was mad about the guy, but I felt like, \u201cGod, You\u2019re the One who told me. You had all those years to make this happen, and You didn\u2019t.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI still a good enough Christian to read my Bible everyday. But sometimes you do that more because there isn\u2019t a fear of God in you, but you\u2019re afraid God will punish you if you don\u2019t. So, you\u2019re still trying to be a good person even though you have all of this angst in your soul. I remember a time in those six months when it was all sort of playing out, where it was becoming evident that this was not going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that point, I was reading in the minor prophets, and I think this was a turning point for me. I hit the book of Hosea. Hosea is a great, great book, of course. <em>Redeeming Love<\/em>, the movie came out. A lot of people may be familiar with the story from that now. It\u2019s the story of unrequited love, but a committed God. I remember feeling like I was in a deep, deep wilderness and darkness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's interesting, because since then, I visited that place again, but for whatever reason, I thought\u2014I don\u2019t know that I could\u2019ve processed this\u2014but I remember thinking, \u201cWhy, God?\u201d That was the first time I saw Hosea chapter 2 verse 14 that says, \u201cBehold, God allures Israel into the wilderness, and there He will turn the valley of trouble into a place of hope.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe fact that God lovingly leads the one He loves to the wilderness just was more than my mind could handle. Even now, I am struck with the emotion of it. I remember starting to see God\u2019s love in that space. The truth is that as Christians, we like the scenario, we like the narrative that says, \u201cAnd then eventually the guy showed up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann and Dave:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> And that never happened. He met someone else. He has a happy family. They\u2019re my Facebook friends; we\u2019ve moved on. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s been an awkward conversation when they\u2019ve read my subsequent books. [Laughter] But the truth is that this wasn\u2019t part of God\u2019s plan for my life. To believe and understand that what I\u2019m living is not Plan B. It\u2019s not like God\u2019s like, \u201cOh, darn. Now I\u2019ve got to figure out what to do with Lina\u2019s life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think for awhile, and part of the set up to my big crisis that led me to write <em>Fractured Faith<\/em> is that I think you sort of feel that you\u2019ve paid your dues, first of all. So, you\u2019ve done your big disappointment with God, so now you\u2019re grown to other things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re mature now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You don\u2019t need to go through it again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> At least not to that level, like you see crisis. But not like this. Also, I think you start to feel like you should know better at that point. For me, when I went through this next season of darkness, it felt like you go back to this contractual relationship with God where you feel like, \u201cGod, I\u2019ve done my part in this Christian life. Why aren\u2019t you doing Yours.\u201d I think we apply it in every way, not just in our love life but in our daily Christian life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, we definitely do it. It\u2019s back to your quote. I think I resonated with your quote so strongly because I\u2019ve done it. \u201cI want the God to give me what I want.\u201d I expect it, sort of, because I\u2019ve earned it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been good!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve paid my dues; He sort of owes me; I\u2019ve been good. Surely it can\u2019t just keep being painful; there\u2019s going to be a turn. Sometimes\u2026.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Also, Lina, there comes a point where I think a lot of listeners will resonate, \u201cDid I hear God wrong?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> You start to second guess yourself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. You\u2019re wondering if you\u2019re not doing things right. You\u2019re continually second guessing and wondering, \u201cWhere is my relationship with God?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> If you follow social media at all, the last couple of years, a lot of conversation on social media will do things\u2014they\u2019ll take Jeremiah 29:11. The verses talk about God giving you a hope and an expected end. You\u2019ve got half of the Christian world that says, \u201cYou can\u2019t apply it to yourself because this is about Israel!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s out of context. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> So, you\u2019re kind of going, \u201cOh. I guess that\u2019s why nothing good has happened in my life.\u201d Then, on the other side, you have others that are like, \u201cNo!\u00a0 You can embrace it for yourself.\u201d I do believe that Scripture is meant to be personal. Do we overinterpret it? Sure! Do we try to make it glossy and rosy and all about me? Of course!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think God constantly reminds us that there\u2019s a bigger story. And by the way, the bigger story is better than we think! Even if it means I\u2019m still single. Our big \u201ca ha\u201d isn\u2019t that you get married and live happily every after. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s not the bow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> That\u2019s not it! I always tell people that when Lazarus got woke up from the dead, the story isn\u2019t that Lazarus woke up from the dead, the story is that Jesus. Period. The story isn\u2019t that Peter walked on water. We think that\u2019s the story. The story is Jesus. I think this is the quote that you just read at the beginning. It\u2019s that. We make it about me coming out of the tomb, me walking on water, me marrying happily ever after, [Laughter] my own little Hallmark<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> movie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Our story. It\u2019s His story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Jesus is the secondary character, and it\u2019s like, \u201cNo. He\u2019s it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> We say it. We say the reason is that He\u2019s enough, He\u2019s all. But we don\u2019t really believe it. This was a jarring \u201ca ha\u201d moment for me, when I sort of wake up and realize, \u201cWow. I say a lot of things that I don\u2019t really live and believe.\u201d Ever crisis that God has allowed me to enter\u2014and not just allowed--but led me into\u2014I think has been an invitation into decluttering, killing the idols, and then a renewing of this passionate relationship that He wants with us\u2014that I think exceeds every relationship here on this Earth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven, as I\u2019ve had a chance to meet you. You\u2019re so happily married, and it\u2019s\u2019 clear you have a deep relationship with each other. And who doesn\u2019t want that, humanly. But I think we can have more with Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But Dave is not my hero. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> That\u2019s it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What?! [Laughter] What are you talking about? I am your hero!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re my hero, but Jesus is my first hero. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I am very, very flawed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I made Dave my hero, I was sorely disappointed. I think everyone is, when they put anything in place of Jesus as an idol.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> This is why so many marriages are not succeeding because I think you think, \u201cIf I meet the one, then everything will be fine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGoing back to that, when I was in that season in Jacksonville, and I started teaching, that was a turning point\u2014Hosea. I started seeing God soften my heart to His goodness, and I eventually\u2014again, by God\u2019s grace; this is how you know that the story\u2019s not yours\u2014how would I end up then, in that season, teaching a Sunday school class. That was the pivotal point. I felt God calling me to ministry, and I did not know what that would look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI didn\u2019t feel God wanted me to bail on medicine, so I somehow knew I would be bivocational. It was intuitive in me. I just thought I\u2019d do both. I\u2019d be like Luke, you know, the guy in the Bible, the doctor. And there were others who did two things\u2014Paul, the Apostle, and I just figured I\u2019d do both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about that call. What happened? How did you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Well, I tell you. It\u2019s a couple of things. I think that\u2019s a really good question. I think a lot of people are trying find out what they are supposed to be doing in life, and they assume, \u201cOh, you\u2019ve been called to ministry; therefore, you have a job, and we don\u2019t.\u201d A job in the Kingdom, and we don\u2019t. I think that\u2019s so false.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> First of all, I was a doctor. There was no reason to think that I\u2019d get a \u201ccall.\u201d All it was for me, was this. First of all, I fell in love with teaching the Bible, more than anything else I\u2019d ever done in church. What that looked like to me was taking Scripture and creating messages that brought it to life and applied in a very understandable way. Just brought it to life; I don\u2019t know how else to say it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI enjoyed the process of creating a sermon, really. I was doing it in the context of a woman\u2019s Sunday school. At the time I was dabbling with writing some newsletters. I knew I had a gift there, so you start seeing your gift. You start doing something, and you see your giftedness. To me, I knew there was maybe something in writing because I would catch all people in church reading the newsletter that I had written for the women in my 30 people Sunday school class. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI never thought about it; I didn\u2019t think I was going to write books at the time. But I loved that moment when I would get up and teach the Bible. I wanted to do it. Now I was praying, \u201cGod\u2026.\u201d Already I was committed to God, and I wanted to live for Him. I loved doing this! \u201cWhat do you want me to do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s almost inevitable! This is my gift now, as a mature Christian who understands, \u201cTeaching\u2019s one of the gifts! God\u2019s given you the gift of teaching!\u201d It\u2019s so evident. To me, when you\u2019re asking God so much, \u201cUse me, use me, use me, use me. Here I am, Lord, send me,\u201d He\u2019s going to show you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the last 20 some years of my life have been wrestling with what that calling looks like\u2014from writing books, to doing podcasts; even now, doing global work in the Middle East.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What\u2019s your ministry called?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> It\u2019s called <em>Living with Power<\/em>. You can find it at <em>livingwithpower.org<\/em>. For awhile it was as a woman\u2019s ministry director at a megachurch, which is sort of the backdrop of <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>. It\u2019s all of those things, which have been my pursuit of teaching God\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWord to people wherever I can in a way that brings us closer to Him and creating a space for revival. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that backdrop; you just sort of dropped it out there, [Laughter] of <em>Fractured Faith<\/em>. I love the thought of this deconstruction\/reconstruction. We\u2019ve got to get there eventually, too, but I\u2019m sure it\u2019s in the story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because in an age of deconstruction, many people are leaving the faith when they\u2019ve experienced pain or fracture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Yes. That word \u201cdeconstruction\u201d is taken on its own. No one knew what that meant years ago. Now I think people don\u2019t know for sure what that means. Deconstruction is a season where we question the goodness of God, honestly, is how I would summarize it. Basically, it\u2019s a season where the things that have happened in your life related to Christianity and the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst of all, you don\u2019t deconstruct if you\u2019re not a Christian. That\u2019s a premise. You are in some way related to the church and Christianity. Deconstruct, by the way, is a literary word and it was not applied to the church, but in the last, let\u2019s say, five years, it\u2019s become a church and Christian word. It has been applied to a situation where you used to believe certain things about God and Christianity, and you don\u2019t anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome legitimate deconstruction is rooted in things that you shouldn\u2019t have believed. That\u2019s what I bring up a lot in my book. And others, I believe, where things have taken on a cultural tone that has landed people away from the faith. Then you can debate were they ever Christians or not when a person walks away to that degree from their faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhether you use the word deconstruction or not, there\u2019s a lot of Biblical content that talks about people who\u2014even Jesus talking about the seed. There\u2019s a seed that gets thrown in four different grounds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll this to say, I left my fellowship convinced of a couple of things\u2014that God wanted me to practice medicine and that God wanted me in full-time ministry. How they would work out, I didn\u2019t know. So, when God quickly moved me away from Jacksonville into Chicago, where I still live\u2014it\u2019s been 22 years now I\u2019ve been in Chicago\u2014it was a season of my life where I wrote a lot of poetry because it comes out of angst. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBasically, I started doing what I could where I could. I always talked to people about living out their call. I\u2019d say, \u201cYou\u2019re not going to wake up with a big ministry. Just do what you can where you can.\u201d To me, it did look like writing in my private room because I wanted to communicate God\u2019s word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAround that time, the cultural things that were happening were people had blogs\u2014I started a blog. Then, I started looking for a local church. It took me a couple of years, but when I finally found the church, it felt like it was the best church I\u2019d ever been at. Next things I knew I was teaching in some capacity. Next thing I knew I was the woman\u2019s ministry director in what is now looked at as a megachurch in a movement when megachurches were on the rise. That pastor was a megafamous pastor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Which is pretty remarkable, because you\u2019re still an ER doctor and pediatrician.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> Well, [Laughter] it\u2019s interesting. When I looked at the ministry God has given me, and I\u2019ve spent a lot of time questioning, because when you have another job, it\u2019s easy to fall back on it and say, \u201cMaybe I misheard God.\u201d You go back to, \u201cHow do you know?\u201d I would constantly, and I\u2019m still tempted to go, \u201cMaybe I\u2019m supposed to be a doctor,\u201d because I haven\u2019t had the level of \u201csuccess\u201d that these other people have had. You know, success and significance in ministry is a whole other section in ministry that we can talk about in this. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you are\u2014you\u2019re given the success sometimes if you look at horizontal ministry that you\u2019re not successful if you\u2019re not growing. Even that pastor in that church would say, \u201cHealthy things grow,\u201d so you felt bad if you weren\u2019t growing. Healthy things grow, but healthy things hibernate. Healthy things get pruned and purged, and all this stuff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStepping into that, it always felt like God was confirming the ministry call by opening doors that I couldn\u2019t open on my own. I would just walk through them, a lot of times with questions and with fears and with, \u201cReally, God? This is it? Why don\u2019t you do it more?\u201d Visionaries have this problem, because we see the end results, it\u2019s hard to slow down and allow God to shape what needs to be shaped here, personally, in my own self, before I\u2019m able to go there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, I don\u2019t think you see yet stuff, practically, in 2002. How could I ever have imagined a world that we had a cell phone where you could do ministry in? In 2010, how could we have ever imagined a world where there were Syrian refugees in my home country of Lebanon, that God would want me to start someday. You couldn\u2019t even write the book because you didn\u2019t know what was going to happen. Things that only God knows.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, how can you then judge God, because you haven\u2019t lived those things yet? It\u2019s like toddlers\u2014I don\u2019t mean it like honestly, if someone\u2019s listening and you\u2019re wrestling with your faith\u2014I don\u2019t think God says, \u201cOh, you\u2019re like a little toddler.\u201d God is so much more compassionate with us. Now I look and think my reactions to the waiting, my reactions to the disappointment, in hindsight feel like what I watch with my eight-year-old nephew, how he interacts with his mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Especially when you like to know the plan, and you\u2019re a planner and you\u2019re strategizing the future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s my question as we wrap this one. For the person listening that\u2019s in your first fracture\u2014which, it could be a relationship like you had; it could be some other expectation, \u201cI thought God would, but He hasn\u2019t.\u201d What would you say? Just one thought for that person, right where they are right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lina:<\/strong> \u201cJust wait.\u201d I hate that advice, in a way. But honestly, just wait. Don\u2019t react; don\u2019t run\u2014you know, the fight or flight response is so intuitive to all of us. We want to quit the faith. Just wait. Just sit still; it\u2019s what God told the people of Israel so often\u2014just wait; sit still and see the victory that God\u2019s preparing. I really believe it\u2019s coming. The fact that you\u2019re even listening is part of God\u2019s working in your life right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things I love about your story is how you didn\u2019t pull away from God. You kept in His Word. Many times, what we can do is reject God or be mad at Him, and we will not get in the Word where it is. When I\u2019m in the Word\u2014I have to be because it reminds me of His faithfulness, of His goodness. But it\u2019s also that place where God is speaking to me and I\u2019m reminded He is loving. He is with me; He is patient. He is holy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is a little bit, I think, like walking in a gym when you don\u2019t want to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann and Lina: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you said that, I thought, there\u2019s somebody listening right now who\u2019s thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t want to open His Word. I\u2019m mad; I\u2019m hurt. I\u2019m angry.\u201d Open the Word even though you don\u2019t want to and say, \u201cGod, I need to find You. I need to see You. Will You speak?\u201d I think He\u2019ll meet you there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Hi, I\u2019m Shelby Abbot, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Lina Abujamra on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. For many of us, somewhere along the way, the Christianity we knew began to crumble. Lina has communicated to us today and encouraged us that we can find our way back to God and in the process we might just discover that the real God has been waiting for us all along. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLina Abujamra has written a book called <em>Fractured Faith, Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction<\/em>. If you or a loved one are wrestling with deconstruction and questioning your faith in several ways or just minor ways, you can head over today at FamilyLifeToday.com and pick up a copy of Lina\u2019s book. I know it will be helpful as you wrestle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re down to the last three days of the month of May. This has been a super special month for us here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em> because of the matching program that a partner has generously donated to us here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>. That means when you give a gift to <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, every gift you give is going to be matched dollar for dollar. For example, if you make a $50 donation, the donation is actually going to turn into $100. That\u2019s only going to happen for the next three days here in the month of May. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWould your home be able to give hope to somebody who feels hopeless today? We\u2019re looking for 350 new partners this month to join <em>FamilyLife<\/em> as a donor. Perhaps God is calling you to be one of those partners. If that\u2019s the case, go online today to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you could give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that\u2019s 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, Lina Abujamra is joined again with Dave and Ann Wilson in the studio to talk about the wrestling with deconstruction at a point when she felt like God didn\u2019t deliver for her\u2014He actually failed her, and how she spiraled in that process. But how she also found hope. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor supported production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a <em>Cru<\/em><a id=\"_Hlk135747114\"><sup>\u00ae <\/sup><\/a>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/307752","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=307752"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=307752"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=307752"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=307752"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=307752"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=307752"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=307752"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}