{"id":307741,"date":"2023-05-18T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-05-18T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/its-time-for-life-giving-time-management-jen-pollock-michel-2\/"},"modified":"2025-01-09T09:41:33","modified_gmt":"2025-01-09T14:41:33","slug":"its-time-for-life-giving-time-management-jen-pollock-michel-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/its-time-for-life-giving-time-management-jen-pollock-michel-2\/","title":{"rendered":"It&#8217;s Time for Life-Giving Time Management: Jen Pollock Michel"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Author Jen Pollock Michel shows how to establish life-giving time-management habits &amp; develop a grounded, healthy, life-giving relationship with the clock.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author Jen Pollock Michel shows how to establish life-giving time-management habits &amp; develop a grounded, healthy, life-giving relationship with the clock.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-18.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:12","filesize":"55.32M","filesize_raw":"58002634","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873,2934],"tags":[2330],"podcast_series":[8633],"cwp_profile":[9493],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307741","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-relationships","tag-time-management","podcast_series-in-good-time-jen-pollock-michel","cwp_profile-jen-pollock-michel","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307741\/its-time-for-life-giving-time-management-jen-pollock-michel-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307741\/its-time-for-life-giving-time-management-jen-pollock-michel-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"lUxPSHveK0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/its-time-for-life-giving-time-management-jen-pollock-michel-2\/\">It&#8217;s Time for Life-Giving Time Management: Jen Pollock Michel<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/its-time-for-life-giving-time-management-jen-pollock-michel-2\/embed\/#?secret=lUxPSHveK0\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;It&#8217;s Time for Life-Giving Time Management: Jen Pollock Michel&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"lUxPSHveK0\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-18.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-18.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Before we start the program today, we have an exciting campaign. It goes the whole year. If you jump in and become a financial partner with us, which is a monthly financial giver to <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, you join our family, you help us take this message and God\u2019s Word about marriage, family, legacies to the world, and your gift will be doubled for a whole year!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s exciting because you have access to many things that no one has ever had access [to] before.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like a backstage pass. You sort of get inside the curtain; you get to hear things before anybody else knows. We have a June event coming up, a livestream, that you get insider access to. There\u2019s a lot of cool things that you get.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> [You] get a free gift card to a <em>FamilyLife Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> conference that you could keep or give away.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s big time.\n\nBut the biggest thing is join our family, be a part of changing the world by sacrificially giving. There\u2019s a whole team of people that do this. They\u2019re our partners. They are critical to what this ministry does and what this ministry is going to do.\n\nWe\u2019re inviting you to jump in right now. It\u2019s a great time to do that. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click that button and say, \u201cI want to join the family, I want to be a part of this ministry and I want to be an insider.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Trying to keep up with you on a walk, in an airport, anytime we walk somewhere, you are the fastest walker.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s things to do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Last night we were walking to our neighbors\u2019 house. It was a half mile away, and I felt like I was running.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It says so much about my internal clock. That\u2019s how fast it runs. Isn\u2019t that scary. \u201cWe need to get there.\u201d \u201cWe need to go\u201d \u201cWe need to get some steps in\u201d \u201cWe need to burn some calories.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I get on those moving sidewalks in the airport and she\u2019s still beating me. [Laughter] I\u2019m running and every step I take is multiplied where you are.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that sad though, because I don\u2019t always enjoy the process.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to talk about that today. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.\n\nYou can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife\u2014<\/em>\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong><em> \u2014Today<\/em>!\n\nWe\u2019re going to talk about time and slowing down. I don\u2019t know what all we\u2019re going to talk about today. [Laughter]\n\nWe\u2019ve got Jen Pollock Michel with us. Jen, you\u2019ve written a book on this, so we\u2019re looking at you like you are the guru, expert on time.\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Thank you so much.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you walk fast, Jen?\n\n<strong>Jen: <\/strong>You know what, not as fast as my husband on hikes. If I\u2019m on a hike, I want to just look at the scenery. [Laughter] It\u2019s all about the destination especially for my husband and our younger boys.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> By the way, I haven\u2019t even mentioned you\u2019ve got five kids. You talk about fast. You\u2019ve got to be fast.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, her youngest two are twins, twin boys.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But they\u2019re 15, so it\u2019s slowing down a little bit, or no?\n\n<strong>Jen: <\/strong>It took me a while to write the book on time with the twins. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You had no time. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> No, I didn\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t have any time.\n\nAnyway, the book is called <em>In Good Time: 8 Habits for Reimagining Productivity, Resisting Hurry<\/em>\u2014see that\u2019s where I\u2019m going\u2014<em>and Practicing Peace<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I need this book. Did you need this book; did you need to write this book?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You did?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes, I think probably most of my books have been written primarily, at least initially, for me just trying to solve some questions. I say in this book that I was a reader of time management books for 30 years. I was definitely that person who thought, \u201cIf I could just get some more strategies and figure out how to have a little bit more time, all will be solved.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did it help? Did it work?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I think that there are some wonderful strategies to be learned. They\u2019re not really time management strategies. I think it\u2019s just basic executive functioning. We could also say it\u2019s \u201cadulting\u201d kind of skills. [Laughter] Because I think I have come to conclude you just can\u2019t manage time. That assumes a level of control that I don\u2019t think we have.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Which is scary and creates anxiety in some of us.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t imagine your saying that really.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I know.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> After reading and studying time management you\u2019re saying we can\u2019t manage time.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Even in the beginning of her book, she starts out with \u201cMy alarm went off at five. I give myself 30 minutes. I\u2019m reading the Bible.\u201d You\u2019re very scheduled.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is that because of the time management books that have helped you?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> It\u2019s kind of funny; it\u2019s like the chicken and the egg thing. Do you read time management books because temperamentally you are suited to time management books? I think that\u2019s probably part of it.\n\nI started reading time management books in college. I think that was when I\u2014I can remember my last year of high school feeling really busy: \u201cI\u2019ve got to get all this done.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m so impressed. I feel that busyness, but I\u2019ve never read a time management book. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It might help. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I need one. That\u2019s why we\u2019re talking today.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know when I hear that, I\u2019m not wired that way, I\u2019m not saying that\u2019s better or worse. I\u2019m just saying that is not how I\u2019m wired. Although I love going to leadership conferences. But I\u2019m not wired that way.\n\nI hear from both of you this pressure.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014angst.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that true? You feel like \u201cI need to be efficient; I need to use my time well.\u201d I feel the opposite. [Laughter] \u201cI don\u2019t need to be efficient.\u201d I\u2019m kidding.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I\u2019d like to step into your shoes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that would be something.\n\nBut do you guys\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You should try being married to him. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay, we\u2019re not going there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is awesome because he\u2019s good for me.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes, absolutely.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But do you two <em>feel that<\/em>? Because I know Ann does.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When she\u2019s not productive it\u2019s \u201cWe can be using our time better.\u201d Do you feel the same thing?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Absolutely. I think even in my own Christian formation for the last 30 years is that idea that time is one of those resources that you have, and you better figure out how to steward it well.\n\nI think there\u2019s a good in that. I think that is true. I think time is a gift, and like any gift we are responsible to offer it to God, back to Him, faithfully.\n\nBut I think that pressure to use <em>absolutely every minute<\/em> for something measurable is where it starts to go off the rails a little bit. That\u2019s what I realized in the pandemic. The pandemic is a huge context for this book. You remember we were all stuck inside\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> \u2014not busy in the same ways. Supposedly that should have solved all of our problems, because I always thought, \u201cIf I could be less busy, it would all be great.\u201d Suddenly, I was less busy, and then I just tried to make myself busy with other things; like cleaning out my closets and my garage and all of that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s when people were doing all their home projects.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, so they did just replace that time with more \u201cto dos.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You had a term in your book that I\u2019ve never seen before: \u201ctime anxiety.\u201d What is that?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> It\u2019s funny because people will ask what it is, but I think we all could say we know what it is. We have an anxious relationship with time. I think that can look different for different people.\n\nOn the one hand, we all do feel anxious about the to-do list. I think that women often have so many different kinds of tasks on their to-do lists.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Often, if you\u2019re in a season where you are caring for someone, you\u2019re not really getting things done in the sense of you get it done and it\u2019s done. You get it done and then tomorrow you do it again and, in another hour, maybe you do it again.\n\nThat\u2019s where we start to get into trouble with the category of productivity, which is about measurable output in our lives. I think that there are seasons of life where we don\u2019t create anything measurable or maybe it\u2019s measurable for an hour. [Laughter] And then the next hour you have to do it again.\n\nMaybe you\u2019re in a season of ill health, and you are not able to get things done in the way that you are used to getting things done. That\u2019s where I was at the beginning of the pandemic. Not that I had any of those health crises or anything, but just to see the world in a global crisis. Then to see how I was manufacturing a kind of urgency withing my own home because\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Well, getting busy with different kinds of things. \u201cIf I\u2019m not going to travel, if I\u2019m not going to have to take my kids, chauffeur them around to their activities\u2026\u201d\n\nI really should have been rejoicing and celebrating. I want to situate our family. We have older kids, so while they were home doing remote schooling, they were pretty independent in terms of managing that. But I was left feeling like \u201cI don\u2019t even recognize myself in this new life where I don\u2019t have to hurry around and bop from here to there and end the day breathlessly, so I\u2019ll just invent some things.\u201d\n\nI was reading more time management books. I was making all kinds of lists. I was making lists of people that I was going to check up on and who was I going to call. I was literally writing questions for my mother and my mother-in-law to help them write their memoirs. These are the kinds of projects that I was inventing.\n\nOn the one hand, maybe it was a good thing. But on the other, it was just \u201cWhy am I so tied to a version of myself that is busy, that being part of my identity?\u201d I mean how many times do we narrate our lives according to busyness:\n\n\u201cHow are you?\u201d\n\n\u201cBusy.\u201d\n\n\u201cWas it a good day?\u201d\n\n\u201cYes, I got a lot done.\u201d\n\nThat actually has become the measure for \u201cthe good life.\u201d I think it has to be reexamined. You don\u2019t know if what you\u2014especially as Christians, who\u2019s to say that what you put on your list is the thing that God wanted you to do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Then what about when God calls you to receive interruptions that you didn\u2019t expect?\n\nWhen I look back at the years of being a young mom, I see if I could have adjusted to the time, the pace of that a little bit more quickly\u2014and I remember when I had my twins. My oldest was almost seven and we had seven, five, three essentially and then the twins. I remember receiving that time as a gift. Having a little bit of perspective: \u201cThis is only going to last so long. They\u2019re only going to be babies so long. They\u2019re only going to learn to talk once and learn to walk,\u201d and all of these things.\n\nI think I enjoyed it a little bit more. That\u2019s the hard thing. When you\u2019re in a season, often times, you can\u2019t appreciate it.\n\nIt\u2019s interesting that as I talk to people who have been through seasons of caring for their parents, what I hear from them is \u201cYou\u2019re never going to regret this,\u201d and \u201cEnjoy every moment,\u201d especially with someone who is facing cognitive decline. Just enjoy every conversation that you\u2019re able to have now knowing that won\u2019t always be possible.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is there a way that you two would coach young moms who are in that phase you just talked about, Jen, where they feel like every day is \u201cI\u2019m just serving people. I\u2019m not really feeling like I\u2019m doing anything but changing diapers and cleaning up messes and making meals\u201d?\n\nI know I\u2019ve heard Ann\u2014it felt like \u201cI\u2019ve missed some of that.\u201d You\u2019re acting like \u201cI\u2019m now starting to see some of those moments.\u201d How would you coach a young mom to be able to see that better in good time? How would you help her to make her time better?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> One of the things that we can see in those young years is how formative it is for us. Often, we look at that season as a time out: \u201cI\u2019m taking time out of <em>my life<\/em> to care for these little ones; off ramping what I was doing before,\u201d if that is the case. In some ways it changes our lives, and the attention focuses now on the kids in different ways.\n\nI just want to celebrate for young moms how formative that is. The kind of resilience and endurance and steadfastness; those are words that I use in the book that [have] become so important for me, where you\u2019re in a waiting season. The things that you do regularly are forming you. I would encourage young moms to be hopeful about their own formation in Christ as that is happening in those young years.\n\nMan, if I could go back and tell my younger self to get more help. I\u2019m not even talking about hiring people. I\u2019m just talking about looking around and maybe even getting a bit honest about how hard it was. I didn\u2019t admit that even to my own husband sometimes.\n\nI wish I had admitted it to him. I wish I had looked [for] more help from my church family. Because intergenerationally, I could have looked to some older moms to maybe get some wisdom or some perspective.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to husbands? How can we help? Obviously, I can step in and just be hands and help, but I think sometimes we as husbands are \u201cI don\u2019t know exactly what would be the best thing.\u201d I\u2019ve got two moms here that could maybe give us a word.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I think about how much control I was devoted to. I wanted to receive help but also was sort of divided about that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I loved being in the martyr complex. [Laughter] \u201c<em>I do everything around here. I\u2019m amazing, and you are horrible<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] \u201c<em>You don\u2019t even see me or help me<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There were times\u2014I still want you to answer the question\u2014but there were times where I would step in and then get criticized for not doing it right.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> \u2018You\u2019re not doing it right.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then as a guy we say, \u201cOkay, I tried. I\u2019m going to go play basketball,\u201d or whatever.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think a lot of us men are saying \u201cI want to help. Tell me how.\u201d\u00a0 You guys still haven\u2019t answered the question.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I wish I would have said exactly what I needed to my husband.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cCould you please do this? I could use your help.\u201d Maybe even make him lists: \u201cWhen you come home today, it would be so helpful if you could get these couple of things done for me.\u201d\n\nI was so reluctant to ask for help, just as you said, not only from Dave, but from those around me.\n\nIt would have been a gift to me, and it also would have been a gift to the people around me. I know that if people ask me something, I\u2019m so happy to help, especially those young moms. \u201cI\u2019m there for you. I remember that; I get that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes, I think asking those specific things. I think we have to face even our own guilt in asking. That\u2019s how I felt. I was home with the kids. So, I felt guilty to ask my husband to do things.\n\nWhen I look back on it, that wouldn\u2019t have been a wrong thing to say, \u201cEvery Saturday morning I want to lace up my shoes and go for a really long walk by myself.\u201d\n\nMaybe even having some patterns as a family, so you\u2019re not asking all the time. It can become a rhythm of your family that \u201cMom goes out for a long walk on Saturday mornings, if it\u2019s possible, and Dad takes the kids for donuts.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly what one of my friends did. Every Saturday, he piled the kids in the car. They\u2019d do donuts or Panera. They\u2019d do a carwash. They\u2019d go to the drugstore.\n\nI remember telling one of our sons that. So, every Saturday morning they do their runs; they go get donuts. It\u2019s the first time his wife can just take a break. She doesn\u2019t take a break. She runs around the house and does\u2014\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> \u2014and cleans up.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. [Laughter] \u2013gets things done.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s her break.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I think those are good questions.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We did what we called \u201cBoys Day Out\u201d where I\u2019d take the three boys. Again, that was one of our rhythms. That was a gift. You looked forward to it. \u201cTwo more Fridays and I get Boys Day Out.\u201d The boys loved it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was good for Dave and the kids. I\u2019ll usually tell young moms \u201cYou are giving your husband and your kids a gift\u2014\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014by just saying \u2018Guys, go have fun.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about this: It\u2019s easy, as you\u2019ve already said, especially if you\u2019re trying to manage your time well, to not be fully in time. Does that make any sense?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There would be times when I\u2019d be home and I\u2019d think, \u201cI\u2019m not really in this moment.\u201d Do you experience that a lot as moms because you\u2019re doing so many things and you\u2019re not fully present?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> It\u2019s a funny relationship we have with time. In a lot of ways, when you\u2019re managing the house and running things and you\u2019re very acutely aware of time. [For example], \u201cWe have three minutes, and your shoes are not tied. We have to be in the car because I know that the carpool line\u2026.\u201d I have everything timed out perfectly in some ways. That\u2019s how it ran for me.\n\nSome of the interesting research on time says that when we become least aware of time is when we are fully entering into joy, that it\u2019s your most joyful moments where you completely lose the sense of the clock.\n\nNobody is looking at the clock when you\u2019re hanging out playing a game, having friends over, whatever you\u2019re doing. You lose track of time. That is a huge practice and a habit that all of us can enter into. As we think about time anxiety, we think sometimes we will solve our time anxiety by barreling through the list, getting to the end of it. \u201cWoo. Great! Now I\u2019m all done.\u201d Whereas sometimes you just have to accept the fact that you\u2019re probably not going to get through the list, and really be intentional about joy, moments and habits of joy in your life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that your book is packed with Scripture because there\u2019s a lot of Scripture on time. How do we bring this God-component into this area?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> A lot of times I start with Psalm 90, which I think gives us a helpful perspective on time.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I put it in my notes.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Did you? Very good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You want me to read part of it?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019d love to have your thoughts. I tried to condense it a little bit. But David wrote:\n\nFor a thousand years in your sight\n\nare but as yesterday when it is past,\n\nor as a watch in the night. [4]\n\nFor all our days pass away under your wrath;\n\nwe bring our years to an end like a sigh. [9]\n\nThe years of our life\u2014and this is the one I think a lot of us have heard\u2014\n\nThe years of our life are seventy,\nor even by reason of strength eighty;\nyet their span is but toil and trouble;\nthey are soon gone, and we fly away. [10]\n\nSo teach us to number our days\n\nthat we may get a heart of wisdom. [12]\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> When I talk about this Psalm, I say I\u2019d like to think of it as a musical score. The beginning of the Psalm is all happy major chords. We\u2019re talking about God:\n\nLord, you have been our dwelling place\n\nfrom all generations.\n\nBefore the mountains were formed or,\n\nor ever you brought for the earth and the world,\n\nfrom everlasting to everlasting, you are God. [Psalm 90:1-2, Paraphrased]\n\nYou are immediately introduced in the Psalm to God\u2019s \u201ctime plenty,\u201d which is, I think, where \u201ctime faith\u201d begins. This idea that God is outside of time. God is not panicked by time. Whatever God plans and purposes, He\u2019ll give the time that\u2019s necessary for that.\n\nBut then the score changes and the major chords start to feel like diminished seven minor chords and all this lament grappling with the brevity of our lives. Ultimately, that\u2019s where time anxiety is rooted.\n\nTime management, if we were to be most honest about it, it\u2019s not just about getting things done, it\u2019s about creating meaning, lasting meaning in our lives. As human beings we want that.\n\nThat Psalm introduces us to the paradox of time: that on the one hand it\u2019s plentiful, especially as Christians, because we know that the door is going to close on this life and it\u2019s going to open simultaneously into eternity, but we still have to grapple with the fact that our human lives are brief and we\u2019re not going to get everything done, we\u2019re not going to accomplish everything. There are going to be losses and griefs in our life that remind us \u201cOkay, we\u2019re inhabiting the not yet.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>At the end of a lot of your chapters you have some thoughts to consider and then you have a prayer to pray. As we end this time together, what\u2019s our application? What would you hope the listener takes away?\n\n<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Hi, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jen Pollock Michel on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nWe\u2019re going to hear what Jen thinks is the most important take away from today\u2019s time. But first, she\u2019s written a book called <em>In Good Time<\/em>. It\u2019s a book that unpacks eight practical habits to help you resist hurry, transform any time anxiety you might have and practice the presence of God in the here and now. You can pick up a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nIf your family has been blessed by the ministry of <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, then I\u2019d like to invite you to become a <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partner. Why? It\u2019s to ensure that we\u2019re always here for you on air and online.\n\n<em>FamilyLife<\/em> is a donor-supported ministry. That means it\u2019s only through the generous support of friends like you that we can reach families with the timeless hope of Jesus. That\u2019s what we\u2019re all about here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>.\n\nIf you want to become a partner with us, you can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com or you could give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800, \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nOr you could feel free to drop us something in the mail at FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832.\n\nNow let\u2019s hear what Jen thinks would be a great take away from today\u2019s time.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I hope people will start to think about this wisdom that\u2019s required in time: \u201cTeach us to number our days.\u201d That really does cause us to look up, to say that I can\u2019t know how to number my days apart from looking for a wisdom that doesn\u2019t belong to me.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019ve prayed that, Jen?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Oh, 100 percent: \u201cTeach me to number my days.\u201d I think in many ways my life story has taught me that, that life is very brief. But it\u2019s <em>the wisdom<\/em> that I\u2019m really\u2014because I\u2019m in midlife now\u2014realizing \u201cThat\u2019s what I\u2019m really hungry for; for God to give me that wisdom that I need to make the choices in life that are difficult for all of us.\u201d\n\nI think that amazing thing about that Psalm is that that\u2019s our invitation, to make that petition of God and to know that He does give wisdom and He gives it generously as we know from the apostle James.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> James 1.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When I read that verse for many years, \u201cSo teach us to number our days,\u201d I read it like this: \u201cI\u2019ve got to seize every second. I can\u2019t waste a minute; I can\u2019t waste an hour.\u201d\n\n\u201cTeach us to number our days.\u201d They are short and the rest of the verses where you went \u201cto gain a heart of wisdom.\u201d It isn\u2019t to run around crazy.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI don\u2019t want to miss a minute.\u201d No, it\u2019s actually slow down enough to have wisdom to say, \u201cHow do I best use this day. I might be slowing down.\u201d\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Many of us have an antagonistic relationship with time. But time really is a gift from God. Tomorrow, Jen Pollock Michel is in the studio again with Dave and Ann Wilson to help us understand what the Bible says about the importance of what she calls \u201ceternal time.\u201d That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor supported production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em><a id=\"_Hlk134896113\"><\/a><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a <em>Cru<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. 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Jen Pollock Michel shows how to establish life-giving time-management habits &amp; develop a grounded, healthy, life-giving relationship with the clock.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Before we start the program today, we have an exciting campaign. It goes the whole year. If you jump in and become a financial partner with us, which is a monthly financial giver to <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, you join our family, you help us take this message and God\u2019s Word about marriage, family, legacies to the world, and your gift will be doubled for a whole year!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s exciting because you have access to many things that no one has ever had access [to] before.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like a backstage pass. You sort of get inside the curtain; you get to hear things before anybody else knows. We have a June event coming up, a livestream, that you get insider access to. There\u2019s a lot of cool things that you get.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> [You] get a free gift card to a <em>FamilyLife Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> conference that you could keep or give away.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s big time.\n\nBut the biggest thing is join our family, be a part of changing the world by sacrificially giving. There\u2019s a whole team of people that do this. They\u2019re our partners. They are critical to what this ministry does and what this ministry is going to do.\n\nWe\u2019re inviting you to jump in right now. It\u2019s a great time to do that. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click that button and say, \u201cI want to join the family, I want to be a part of this ministry and I want to be an insider.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Trying to keep up with you on a walk, in an airport, anytime we walk somewhere, you are the fastest walker.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s things to do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Last night we were walking to our neighbors\u2019 house. It was a half mile away, and I felt like I was running.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It says so much about my internal clock. That\u2019s how fast it runs. Isn\u2019t that scary. \u201cWe need to get there.\u201d \u201cWe need to go\u201d \u201cWe need to get some steps in\u201d \u201cWe need to burn some calories.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I get on those moving sidewalks in the airport and she\u2019s still beating me. [Laughter] I\u2019m running and every step I take is multiplied where you are.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that sad though, because I don\u2019t always enjoy the process.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to talk about that today. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.\n\nYou can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife\u2014<\/em>\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong><em> \u2014Today<\/em>!\n\nWe\u2019re going to talk about time and slowing down. I don\u2019t know what all we\u2019re going to talk about today. [Laughter]\n\nWe\u2019ve got Jen Pollock Michel with us. Jen, you\u2019ve written a book on this, so we\u2019re looking at you like you are the guru, expert on time.\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Thank you so much.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you walk fast, Jen?\n\n<strong>Jen: <\/strong>You know what, not as fast as my husband on hikes. If I\u2019m on a hike, I want to just look at the scenery. [Laughter] It\u2019s all about the destination especially for my husband and our younger boys.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> By the way, I haven\u2019t even mentioned you\u2019ve got five kids. You talk about fast. You\u2019ve got to be fast.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, her youngest two are twins, twin boys.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But they\u2019re 15, so it\u2019s slowing down a little bit, or no?\n\n<strong>Jen: <\/strong>It took me a while to write the book on time with the twins. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You had no time. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> No, I didn\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t have any time.\n\nAnyway, the book is called <em>In Good Time: 8 Habits for Reimagining Productivity, Resisting Hurry<\/em>\u2014see that\u2019s where I\u2019m going\u2014<em>and Practicing Peace<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I need this book. Did you need this book; did you need to write this book?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You did?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes, I think probably most of my books have been written primarily, at least initially, for me just trying to solve some questions. I say in this book that I was a reader of time management books for 30 years. I was definitely that person who thought, \u201cIf I could just get some more strategies and figure out how to have a little bit more time, all will be solved.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did it help? Did it work?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I think that there are some wonderful strategies to be learned. They\u2019re not really time management strategies. I think it\u2019s just basic executive functioning. We could also say it\u2019s \u201cadulting\u201d kind of skills. [Laughter] Because I think I have come to conclude you just can\u2019t manage time. That assumes a level of control that I don\u2019t think we have.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Which is scary and creates anxiety in some of us.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t imagine your saying that really.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I know.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> After reading and studying time management you\u2019re saying we can\u2019t manage time.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Even in the beginning of her book, she starts out with \u201cMy alarm went off at five. I give myself 30 minutes. I\u2019m reading the Bible.\u201d You\u2019re very scheduled.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is that because of the time management books that have helped you?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> It\u2019s kind of funny; it\u2019s like the chicken and the egg thing. Do you read time management books because temperamentally you are suited to time management books? I think that\u2019s probably part of it.\n\nI started reading time management books in college. I think that was when I\u2014I can remember my last year of high school feeling really busy: \u201cI\u2019ve got to get all this done.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m so impressed. I feel that busyness, but I\u2019ve never read a time management book. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It might help. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I need one. That\u2019s why we\u2019re talking today.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know when I hear that, I\u2019m not wired that way, I\u2019m not saying that\u2019s better or worse. I\u2019m just saying that is not how I\u2019m wired. Although I love going to leadership conferences. But I\u2019m not wired that way.\n\nI hear from both of you this pressure.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014angst.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that true? You feel like \u201cI need to be efficient; I need to use my time well.\u201d I feel the opposite. [Laughter] \u201cI don\u2019t need to be efficient.\u201d I\u2019m kidding.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I\u2019d like to step into your shoes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that would be something.\n\nBut do you guys\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You should try being married to him. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay, we\u2019re not going there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is awesome because he\u2019s good for me.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes, absolutely.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But do you two <em>feel that<\/em>? Because I know Ann does.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When she\u2019s not productive it\u2019s \u201cWe can be using our time better.\u201d Do you feel the same thing?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Absolutely. I think even in my own Christian formation for the last 30 years is that idea that time is one of those resources that you have, and you better figure out how to steward it well.\n\nI think there\u2019s a good in that. I think that is true. I think time is a gift, and like any gift we are responsible to offer it to God, back to Him, faithfully.\n\nBut I think that pressure to use <em>absolutely every minute<\/em> for something measurable is where it starts to go off the rails a little bit. That\u2019s what I realized in the pandemic. The pandemic is a huge context for this book. You remember we were all stuck inside\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> \u2014not busy in the same ways. Supposedly that should have solved all of our problems, because I always thought, \u201cIf I could be less busy, it would all be great.\u201d Suddenly, I was less busy, and then I just tried to make myself busy with other things; like cleaning out my closets and my garage and all of that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s when people were doing all their home projects.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, so they did just replace that time with more \u201cto dos.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You had a term in your book that I\u2019ve never seen before: \u201ctime anxiety.\u201d What is that?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> It\u2019s funny because people will ask what it is, but I think we all could say we know what it is. We have an anxious relationship with time. I think that can look different for different people.\n\nOn the one hand, we all do feel anxious about the to-do list. I think that women often have so many different kinds of tasks on their to-do lists.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Often, if you\u2019re in a season where you are caring for someone, you\u2019re not really getting things done in the sense of you get it done and it\u2019s done. You get it done and then tomorrow you do it again and, in another hour, maybe you do it again.\n\nThat\u2019s where we start to get into trouble with the category of productivity, which is about measurable output in our lives. I think that there are seasons of life where we don\u2019t create anything measurable or maybe it\u2019s measurable for an hour. [Laughter] And then the next hour you have to do it again.\n\nMaybe you\u2019re in a season of ill health, and you are not able to get things done in the way that you are used to getting things done. That\u2019s where I was at the beginning of the pandemic. Not that I had any of those health crises or anything, but just to see the world in a global crisis. Then to see how I was manufacturing a kind of urgency withing my own home because\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Well, getting busy with different kinds of things. \u201cIf I\u2019m not going to travel, if I\u2019m not going to have to take my kids, chauffeur them around to their activities\u2026\u201d\n\nI really should have been rejoicing and celebrating. I want to situate our family. We have older kids, so while they were home doing remote schooling, they were pretty independent in terms of managing that. But I was left feeling like \u201cI don\u2019t even recognize myself in this new life where I don\u2019t have to hurry around and bop from here to there and end the day breathlessly, so I\u2019ll just invent some things.\u201d\n\nI was reading more time management books. I was making all kinds of lists. I was making lists of people that I was going to check up on and who was I going to call. I was literally writing questions for my mother and my mother-in-law to help them write their memoirs. These are the kinds of projects that I was inventing.\n\nOn the one hand, maybe it was a good thing. But on the other, it was just \u201cWhy am I so tied to a version of myself that is busy, that being part of my identity?\u201d I mean how many times do we narrate our lives according to busyness:\n\n\u201cHow are you?\u201d\n\n\u201cBusy.\u201d\n\n\u201cWas it a good day?\u201d\n\n\u201cYes, I got a lot done.\u201d\n\nThat actually has become the measure for \u201cthe good life.\u201d I think it has to be reexamined. You don\u2019t know if what you\u2014especially as Christians, who\u2019s to say that what you put on your list is the thing that God wanted you to do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Then what about when God calls you to receive interruptions that you didn\u2019t expect?\n\nWhen I look back at the years of being a young mom, I see if I could have adjusted to the time, the pace of that a little bit more quickly\u2014and I remember when I had my twins. My oldest was almost seven and we had seven, five, three essentially and then the twins. I remember receiving that time as a gift. Having a little bit of perspective: \u201cThis is only going to last so long. They\u2019re only going to be babies so long. They\u2019re only going to learn to talk once and learn to walk,\u201d and all of these things.\n\nI think I enjoyed it a little bit more. That\u2019s the hard thing. When you\u2019re in a season, often times, you can\u2019t appreciate it.\n\nIt\u2019s interesting that as I talk to people who have been through seasons of caring for their parents, what I hear from them is \u201cYou\u2019re never going to regret this,\u201d and \u201cEnjoy every moment,\u201d especially with someone who is facing cognitive decline. Just enjoy every conversation that you\u2019re able to have now knowing that won\u2019t always be possible.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is there a way that you two would coach young moms who are in that phase you just talked about, Jen, where they feel like every day is \u201cI\u2019m just serving people. I\u2019m not really feeling like I\u2019m doing anything but changing diapers and cleaning up messes and making meals\u201d?\n\nI know I\u2019ve heard Ann\u2014it felt like \u201cI\u2019ve missed some of that.\u201d You\u2019re acting like \u201cI\u2019m now starting to see some of those moments.\u201d How would you coach a young mom to be able to see that better in good time? How would you help her to make her time better?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> One of the things that we can see in those young years is how formative it is for us. Often, we look at that season as a time out: \u201cI\u2019m taking time out of <em>my life<\/em> to care for these little ones; off ramping what I was doing before,\u201d if that is the case. In some ways it changes our lives, and the attention focuses now on the kids in different ways.\n\nI just want to celebrate for young moms how formative that is. The kind of resilience and endurance and steadfastness; those are words that I use in the book that [have] become so important for me, where you\u2019re in a waiting season. The things that you do regularly are forming you. I would encourage young moms to be hopeful about their own formation in Christ as that is happening in those young years.\n\nMan, if I could go back and tell my younger self to get more help. I\u2019m not even talking about hiring people. I\u2019m just talking about looking around and maybe even getting a bit honest about how hard it was. I didn\u2019t admit that even to my own husband sometimes.\n\nI wish I had admitted it to him. I wish I had looked [for] more help from my church family. Because intergenerationally, I could have looked to some older moms to maybe get some wisdom or some perspective.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to husbands? How can we help? Obviously, I can step in and just be hands and help, but I think sometimes we as husbands are \u201cI don\u2019t know exactly what would be the best thing.\u201d I\u2019ve got two moms here that could maybe give us a word.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I think about how much control I was devoted to. I wanted to receive help but also was sort of divided about that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I loved being in the martyr complex. [Laughter] \u201c<em>I do everything around here. I\u2019m amazing, and you are horrible<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] \u201c<em>You don\u2019t even see me or help me<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There were times\u2014I still want you to answer the question\u2014but there were times where I would step in and then get criticized for not doing it right.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> \u2018You\u2019re not doing it right.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then as a guy we say, \u201cOkay, I tried. I\u2019m going to go play basketball,\u201d or whatever.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think a lot of us men are saying \u201cI want to help. Tell me how.\u201d\u00a0 You guys still haven\u2019t answered the question.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I wish I would have said exactly what I needed to my husband.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cCould you please do this? I could use your help.\u201d Maybe even make him lists: \u201cWhen you come home today, it would be so helpful if you could get these couple of things done for me.\u201d\n\nI was so reluctant to ask for help, just as you said, not only from Dave, but from those around me.\n\nIt would have been a gift to me, and it also would have been a gift to the people around me. I know that if people ask me something, I\u2019m so happy to help, especially those young moms. \u201cI\u2019m there for you. I remember that; I get that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes, I think asking those specific things. I think we have to face even our own guilt in asking. That\u2019s how I felt. I was home with the kids. So, I felt guilty to ask my husband to do things.\n\nWhen I look back on it, that wouldn\u2019t have been a wrong thing to say, \u201cEvery Saturday morning I want to lace up my shoes and go for a really long walk by myself.\u201d\n\nMaybe even having some patterns as a family, so you\u2019re not asking all the time. It can become a rhythm of your family that \u201cMom goes out for a long walk on Saturday mornings, if it\u2019s possible, and Dad takes the kids for donuts.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly what one of my friends did. Every Saturday, he piled the kids in the car. They\u2019d do donuts or Panera. They\u2019d do a carwash. They\u2019d go to the drugstore.\n\nI remember telling one of our sons that. So, every Saturday morning they do their runs; they go get donuts. It\u2019s the first time his wife can just take a break. She doesn\u2019t take a break. She runs around the house and does\u2014\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> \u2014and cleans up.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. [Laughter] \u2013gets things done.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s her break.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I think those are good questions.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We did what we called \u201cBoys Day Out\u201d where I\u2019d take the three boys. Again, that was one of our rhythms. That was a gift. You looked forward to it. \u201cTwo more Fridays and I get Boys Day Out.\u201d The boys loved it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was good for Dave and the kids. I\u2019ll usually tell young moms \u201cYou are giving your husband and your kids a gift\u2014\u201d\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014by just saying \u2018Guys, go have fun.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about this: It\u2019s easy, as you\u2019ve already said, especially if you\u2019re trying to manage your time well, to not be fully in time. Does that make any sense?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There would be times when I\u2019d be home and I\u2019d think, \u201cI\u2019m not really in this moment.\u201d Do you experience that a lot as moms because you\u2019re doing so many things and you\u2019re not fully present?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> It\u2019s a funny relationship we have with time. In a lot of ways, when you\u2019re managing the house and running things and you\u2019re very acutely aware of time. [For example], \u201cWe have three minutes, and your shoes are not tied. We have to be in the car because I know that the carpool line\u2026.\u201d I have everything timed out perfectly in some ways. That\u2019s how it ran for me.\n\nSome of the interesting research on time says that when we become least aware of time is when we are fully entering into joy, that it\u2019s your most joyful moments where you completely lose the sense of the clock.\n\nNobody is looking at the clock when you\u2019re hanging out playing a game, having friends over, whatever you\u2019re doing. You lose track of time. That is a huge practice and a habit that all of us can enter into. As we think about time anxiety, we think sometimes we will solve our time anxiety by barreling through the list, getting to the end of it. \u201cWoo. Great! Now I\u2019m all done.\u201d Whereas sometimes you just have to accept the fact that you\u2019re probably not going to get through the list, and really be intentional about joy, moments and habits of joy in your life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that your book is packed with Scripture because there\u2019s a lot of Scripture on time. How do we bring this God-component into this area?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> A lot of times I start with Psalm 90, which I think gives us a helpful perspective on time.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I put it in my notes.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Did you? Very good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You want me to read part of it?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019d love to have your thoughts. I tried to condense it a little bit. But David wrote:\n\nFor a thousand years in your sight\n\nare but as yesterday when it is past,\n\nor as a watch in the night. [4]\n\nFor all our days pass away under your wrath;\n\nwe bring our years to an end like a sigh. [9]\n\nThe years of our life\u2014and this is the one I think a lot of us have heard\u2014\n\nThe years of our life are seventy,\nor even by reason of strength eighty;\nyet their span is but toil and trouble;\nthey are soon gone, and we fly away. [10]\n\nSo teach us to number our days\n\nthat we may get a heart of wisdom. [12]\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> When I talk about this Psalm, I say I\u2019d like to think of it as a musical score. The beginning of the Psalm is all happy major chords. We\u2019re talking about God:\n\nLord, you have been our dwelling place\n\nfrom all generations.\n\nBefore the mountains were formed or,\n\nor ever you brought for the earth and the world,\n\nfrom everlasting to everlasting, you are God. [Psalm 90:1-2, Paraphrased]\n\nYou are immediately introduced in the Psalm to God\u2019s \u201ctime plenty,\u201d which is, I think, where \u201ctime faith\u201d begins. This idea that God is outside of time. God is not panicked by time. Whatever God plans and purposes, He\u2019ll give the time that\u2019s necessary for that.\n\nBut then the score changes and the major chords start to feel like diminished seven minor chords and all this lament grappling with the brevity of our lives. Ultimately, that\u2019s where time anxiety is rooted.\n\nTime management, if we were to be most honest about it, it\u2019s not just about getting things done, it\u2019s about creating meaning, lasting meaning in our lives. As human beings we want that.\n\nThat Psalm introduces us to the paradox of time: that on the one hand it\u2019s plentiful, especially as Christians, because we know that the door is going to close on this life and it\u2019s going to open simultaneously into eternity, but we still have to grapple with the fact that our human lives are brief and we\u2019re not going to get everything done, we\u2019re not going to accomplish everything. There are going to be losses and griefs in our life that remind us \u201cOkay, we\u2019re inhabiting the not yet.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>At the end of a lot of your chapters you have some thoughts to consider and then you have a prayer to pray. As we end this time together, what\u2019s our application? What would you hope the listener takes away?\n\n<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Hi, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jen Pollock Michel on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nWe\u2019re going to hear what Jen thinks is the most important take away from today\u2019s time. But first, she\u2019s written a book called <em>In Good Time<\/em>. It\u2019s a book that unpacks eight practical habits to help you resist hurry, transform any time anxiety you might have and practice the presence of God in the here and now. You can pick up a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nIf your family has been blessed by the ministry of <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, then I\u2019d like to invite you to become a <em>FamilyLife<\/em> partner. Why? It\u2019s to ensure that we\u2019re always here for you on air and online.\n\n<em>FamilyLife<\/em> is a donor-supported ministry. That means it\u2019s only through the generous support of friends like you that we can reach families with the timeless hope of Jesus. That\u2019s what we\u2019re all about here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>.\n\nIf you want to become a partner with us, you can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com or you could give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800, \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nOr you could feel free to drop us something in the mail at FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832.\n\nNow let\u2019s hear what Jen thinks would be a great take away from today\u2019s time.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> I hope people will start to think about this wisdom that\u2019s required in time: \u201cTeach us to number our days.\u201d That really does cause us to look up, to say that I can\u2019t know how to number my days apart from looking for a wisdom that doesn\u2019t belong to me.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019ve prayed that, Jen?\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Oh, 100 percent: \u201cTeach me to number my days.\u201d I think in many ways my life story has taught me that, that life is very brief. But it\u2019s <em>the wisdom<\/em> that I\u2019m really\u2014because I\u2019m in midlife now\u2014realizing \u201cThat\u2019s what I\u2019m really hungry for; for God to give me that wisdom that I need to make the choices in life that are difficult for all of us.\u201d\n\nI think that amazing thing about that Psalm is that that\u2019s our invitation, to make that petition of God and to know that He does give wisdom and He gives it generously as we know from the apostle James.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> James 1.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When I read that verse for many years, \u201cSo teach us to number our days,\u201d I read it like this: \u201cI\u2019ve got to seize every second. I can\u2019t waste a minute; I can\u2019t waste an hour.\u201d\n\n\u201cTeach us to number our days.\u201d They are short and the rest of the verses where you went \u201cto gain a heart of wisdom.\u201d It isn\u2019t to run around crazy.\n\n<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI don\u2019t want to miss a minute.\u201d No, it\u2019s actually slow down enough to have wisdom to say, \u201cHow do I best use this day. I might be slowing down.\u201d\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Many of us have an antagonistic relationship with time. But time really is a gift from God. Tomorrow, Jen Pollock Michel is in the studio again with Dave and Ann Wilson to help us understand what the Bible says about the importance of what she calls \u201ceternal time.\u201d That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor supported production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em><a id=\"_Hlk134896113\"><\/a><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a <em>Cru<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. 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