{"id":307738,"date":"2023-05-16T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-05-16T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-do-i-do-when-im-angry-with-god-philip-yancey-2\/"},"modified":"2023-05-16T09:15:00","modified_gmt":"2023-05-16T13:15:00","slug":"what-do-i-do-when-im-angry-with-god-philip-yancey-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-do-i-do-when-im-angry-with-god-philip-yancey-2\/","title":{"rendered":"&#8220;What Do I Do when I&#8217;m Angry with God?&#8221; Philip Yancey"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What do you do when you&#8217;re grieved, bitter, or straight-up angry with God? Author Philip Yancey offers powerful ideas for unvarnished emotion.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-16.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:41","filesize":"54.36M","filesize_raw":"57000350","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[2332],"podcast_series":[8632],"cwp_profile":[9834],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307738","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-angry-with-god","podcast_series-disappointment-with-god-philip-yancey","cwp_profile-philip-yancey","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307738\/what-do-i-do-when-im-angry-with-god-philip-yancey-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307738\/what-do-i-do-when-im-angry-with-god-philip-yancey-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Af4MZDeGTR\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-do-i-do-when-im-angry-with-god-philip-yancey-2\/\">&#8220;What Do I Do when I&#8217;m Angry with God?&#8221; Philip Yancey<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-do-i-do-when-im-angry-with-god-philip-yancey-2\/embed\/#?secret=Af4MZDeGTR\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;&#8220;What Do I Do when I&#8217;m Angry with God?&#8221; Philip Yancey&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Af4MZDeGTR\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What do you do when you're grieved, bitter, or straight-up angry with God? Author Philip Yancey offers powerful ideas for unvarnished emotion.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Before we get started today, we have a pretty exciting campaign.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I thought you were going to say it\u2019s our anniversary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> [Laughter] It\u2019s better than our anniversary. It\u2019s the May Match campaign with FamilyLife, where people give a financial gift this month, and really through the whole year it will be doubled.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. And we\u2019re really looking for you to become our partners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What we mean by that is a monthly partner, that you\u2019re giving monthly. We want you to join our family, basically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. You will be joining our family, because we have a team of people that say, \u201cI believe in this ministry so much, every month it\u2019s coming out of my checking account, just like my mortgage.\u201d That\u2019s big time. There is a couple of incentives to do it. You get a free <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup><\/em>gift card that you could go to the <em>Weekend to Remember or<\/em> give away to somebody else. You get insider emails of stuff nobody else knows about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You get a devotional from the <em>Art of Marriage.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. We\u2019re actually in there, and the Ivey\u2019s are in there, David and Meg are in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The Deals.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s a great daily devotional that\u2019s connected with our new <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em>coming out. Really, we\u2019d love you to join our family and be a part of it with us, so that not only your family will be impacted, but your neighbors will be impacted as well. So here\u2019s what you do: go to FamilyLifeToday.com, read the information there, and then jump in and become a partner with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> The Bible is realistic. You don\u2019t have to put on a happy face. God understands. Jesus didn\u2019t put on a happy face. He could have said at the Garden of Gethsemane, \u201cOkay, gather around my little disciples here. I\u2019m going to show you how a real spiritual person handles suffering.\u201d No, He threw Himself on the ground three different times, and said, \u201cGod, if there\u2019s any other way, let me out of this. Let this cup pass.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s Jesus. Then when He\u2019s on the cross He said, \u201cMy God, why have You forsaken Me?\u201d quoting that Psalm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo here\u2019s a question: When\u2019s the last time, or the most recent time you\u2019ve struggled with disappointment with God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You can\u2019t ask me that on the spot!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re so much more spiritual than me, so I\u2019m guessing the answer is \u201cnever,\u201d or \u201cit\u2019s been years.\u201d Mine tend to be more regular.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, I have a lot of times where I\u2019m questioning, \u201cGod, why are You doing this? It just doesn\u2019t seem to make sense.\u201d Or, \u201cWhy are things going like this?\u201d I think as we transitioned out of our church and I saw the pain that you were experiencing, some pain our son was experiencing, I just thought, \u201cI don\u2019t even get it, God. It just feels like this pain\u2014I don\u2019t see any good in it and I don\u2019t see any redemption in it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know you were going to go there. [Laughter] That\u2019s real.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What would you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you bring that up, yes, I can feel it. It\u2019s visceral. But the question I want to dive into today is do you get to a place where you never struggle again with disappointment with God? If there\u2019s anybody that can answer that question\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got him here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014-we\u2019ve got the guy right now. [Laughter] Philip Yancey, Mr. <em>Disappointment with God<\/em> author is back in the studio. Welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you that, Philip. I know you wrote this book decades ago, and you\u2019ve written 25, so it\u2019s just one of many.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And a new one, his memoir, <em>Where the Light Fell, <\/em>we\u2019ve already talked about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. If you didn\u2019t hear our programs on that, listen to those and get the book. But do you ever still struggle with disappointment with God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> There was a turning point for me when I wrote the book, and I\u2019ll answer your question in the long way around. I looked for the most Job-like person I knew, this man named Douglas. He was involved in urban ministry in Chicago, and had become a Jungian therapist, had studied 12 years, was doing very well, had a wife. Then he was involved in an accident. He had nothing to do with it; somebody slammed into his car, and he hit his head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe could no longer read. He saw double every time he tried to read. Here was this scholar who could no longer read. And then a lot of bad things happened. His wife ended up committing suicide, and it was just an awful thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is awful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> It was awful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Terrible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> I know. So I figure if I could interview Job that would be better, but the best I can do is to interview Douglas. So I took him out and said, \u201cDouglas, man, I\u2019ve followed you. You\u2019ve really been through so much, and you didn\u2019t bring any of it on yourself. You\u2019re just one of these innocent people like Job, it seems to me. I just wanted to find out what it\u2019s like to be disappointed with God from your perspective, because if anybody has a right to do that, it\u2019s you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe thought for a minute, and I wasn\u2019t sure if he was having one of his brain gaps, because it became several minutes. And then I realized he was just thinking through when was he disappointed with God. He said, \u201cActually I haven\u2019t felt any disappointment with God.\u201d I said, \u201cDouglas, it\u2019s okay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You can say it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> \u201cI won\u2019t use your name.\u201d [Laughter] \u201cIt\u2019s okay. It\u2019s a whole book about disappointment with God. I need you.\u201d And he said, \u201cWell, what I learned was that life is unfair, and I\u2019ve gotten a really bad draw, but that\u2019s different than saying \u2018God is unfair.\u2019 I\u2019ve learned to separate God from life. I learned that God is as upset about some of the things that happened to me as I am.\u201d I would have a hard time coming up with something recent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tActually that was a turning point for me, where I could say I was disappointed with God. I learned from that. I wrote this book, and I\u2019ve written another book called <em>Where is God When it Hurts? <\/em>So I\u2019ve been called to speak at some pretty hard places, like Newtown, Connecticut\u2014Sandy Hook shootings, Virginia Tech, Columbine, Japan after the tsunami, places like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I stand in front of these grieving parents, I think of going back to Newtown. We went there the week after the tragedy, and it was so sad, because it was right at Christmas time. It was so important for me to be able to say to them, \u201cYou are grieving. God is grieving. You\u2019re upset with the state of this world; God is more upset with the state of this world. I could stand here and say, \u2018God knows what you\u2019re feeling, and God feels it too.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s biblical. I think that\u2019s the way God works. He doesn\u2019t prevent us. Christians die at the same rate as non-Christians, 100 percent. You don\u2019t get a spacesuit that protects you when you follow Jesus. We\u2019re living on a spoiled planet, and things don\u2019t always work out, and life is unfair. I think of Douglas. He absorbed more in one year than I have in my entire life. You just can\u2019t compare these things, and we\u2019re not asked to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re asked to allow God to work in us regardless of our background, in an honest, authentic way, and to somehow put us on the side of good, put us on the side of following Jesus. When I look at what we\u2019re supposed to do as Christians, Paul is very clear in 2 Corinthians chapter 1. He says, \u201cThe comfort that you have received from the God of all comfort, the Father of compassion, I want you to spread abroad to those who don\u2019t have it.\u201d That\u2019s what we\u2019re called to do. We\u2019re to be comfort-dispensers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI get to travel internationally a lot, and in many countries of the world, wherever I\u2019ve been where there have been missionaries, you\u2019ll find clinics and hospitals and educational institutions, and people visiting in prison, and people digging wells. If you go to rural India, for example, and say, \u201cWhat is a Christian?\u201d \u201cWell, I don\u2019t know. I guess it\u2019s one of the major religions in the world.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, do you know anything about it?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWell yes. Once a week this van comes. It has a red cross on the side. If we have broken bones, if we have cuts, if we have eye disease, these people fix it. I guess that\u2019s what a Christian is.\u201d That\u2019s not the whole answer to what a Christian is, but that\u2019s the first thing they sense, the God of all comfort, the Father of compassion. If that\u2019s the first thing the world learns from us as Christians, then that\u2019s a good start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s pretty good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So I love that\u2019s what the Gospel does. It brings hope and it brings physical comfort to so many. As you\u2019re saying, that\u2019s amazing. In all parts of the world, the gospel brings hope and healing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. Philip, you talk, like you said, you\u2019re often called to speak at tragic situations. When those parents walk up to you, who lost a child, feeling like God is hidden, do you ever encourage them to lament that? To go ahead and say that out loud, yell at God, whatever? I\u2019m thinking of Psalm 44, which you put in your book. I\u2019ll read it. It says, \u201cAwake, oh Lord. Why do You sleep? Arouse Yourself. Do not reject us forever. Why do You hid Your face?\u201d It\u2019s like this lament. When we read that I think, \u201cYes, yes. I\u2019ve thought that, I\u2019ve felt that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The honesty of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And yet I grew up always being told, \u201cYou can\u2019t do that.\u201d Even though it\u2019s in the Bible, \u201cYou don\u2019t do that. That\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> --disrespectful and sinful.\u201d Yet I think as we wrestle with our disappointment with God, it\u2019s helpful, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Absolutely. A lot of people think if you go visit somebody in the hospital, Psalms would be a good thing to read. Well you better read them in advance\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Not just pull one out! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip: <\/strong>\u2014because Eugene Petersen says about two-thirds of the Psalms are Psalms of Lament. Like, \u201cGod, You\u2019re not doing a very good job of running the world,\u201d basically. I think it\u2019s just amazing that God would include all those Psalms in there, not to mention Job and Ecclesiastes and Lamentations, and those other books. The Bible is realistic. You don\u2019t have to put on a happy face. God understands. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus didn\u2019t put on a happy face. He could have said at the Garden of Gethsemane, \u201cOkay, gather around my little disciples here. I\u2019m going to show you how a real spiritual person handles suffering.\u201d No, He threw Himself on the ground three different times, and said, \u201cGod, if there\u2019s any other way, let Me out of this. Let this cup pass.\u201d That\u2019s Jesus. And then when He\u2019s on the cross, He said, \u201cMy God, why have You forsaken Me?\u201d quoting that Psalm. He didn\u2019t quote, \u201cThe Lord is My Shepherd.\u201d He quoted the one right before it, Psalm 22.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As a pastor for 30 years, I can remember being in many meetings as we\u2019re discussing the weekend service, and what we\u2019re going to teach and preach and music, you name it. There would be times we were talking about a testimony. \u201cWe need a testimony that gives people hope.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So we\u2019d hear of a miracle story, or a marriage being redeemed or whatever, and we said, \u201cWell, let\u2019s put them on stage. Let\u2019s get that story.\u201d It\u2019s rare\u2014I don\u2019t know if we ever said, \u201cLet\u2019s have a disappointment with God story.\u201d [Laughter] \u201cLet\u2019s bring somebody on stage who\u2014the bow hasn\u2019t been tied yet. They\u2019re in it. We don\u2019t know if they\u2019re going to make it. They don\u2019t know if they\u2019re going to make it. They\u2019re struggling.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo we hurt our people by not allowing that to be something they see? It\u2019s real life. Do you think we hurt?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Where does disappointment come from? It comes from expectations that aren\u2019t met. And if you keep raising those expectations so that you assume that God is going to come at your beck and call and fix you up whenever there\u2019s a problem, you will be disappointed. There\u2019s a guarantee that you will be. What are our expectations? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess I would have to say my expectation is when I look at the New Testament especially, the emphasis is always not on why something happened or some kind of explanation for it, but the promise is something good can come out of it. So that if you look at Romans five, James one, I Peter one, those are passages on suffering, and they all point to how good things can happen, patience, hope, perseverance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow do you develop patience? The only way you get patience is to be in circumstances where the normal response would be impatience. That\u2019s how you learn patience. And we do get the promise that suffering is not a good thing, it\u2019s a bad thing, the kind of suffering we\u2019ve been talking about, but despite that it can be useful. It can be productive, and we can handle suffering if it\u2019s productive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve read a couple books on pain, and these doctors go around and they have a pain chart. They rank pain. The second-most painful condition would be bone cancer. I guess that\u2019s really painful, and they rank other kinds of cancers. But number one by far is not a kind of cancer. It\u2019s childbirth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And we have someone here\u2014there\u2019s only one person here that\u2019s ever experienced that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> That\u2019s right, and the funny thing is, when you go to a hospital, there you\u2019re most likely to find laughter and joy. Why? Because sometimes when you go to the hospital you leave something behind. [Laughter] But when you go to a maternity ward, often you take something home with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you think it\u2019s worth it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The pain is worth it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Yes. How many times have you heard people say, \u201cI will never go through that again,\u201d and yet women do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we do. We keep going through it.\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In the suffering area, how much of the redeeming value of going through suffering is in our hands? We mentioned Joni. She has a perspective that is so rich and beautiful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Joni Eareckson Tada.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Joni Eareckson Tada. Every one of us thinks, \u201cI\u2019m glad that she can have that perspective. Please don\u2019t let me have to go through the same thing.\u201d But at some point, she decided, \u201cI\u2019m not going to be bitter any more. I\u2019m going to find the good,\u201d and she has. So here\u2019s the question, though. Obviously, God does the work, but is there some point where we have to decide, \u201cI\u2019m going to allow His good work to be fleshed out in and through me,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m not.\u201d I can still stay\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s your sermon.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014clench my fists. Is there a \u201cI can be better or bitter, and it\u2019s really my choice?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Suffering works best in community. I think that\u2019s a large part of what the church should be called to do. That\u2019s what 2 Corinthians one is talking about: \u201cSpread abroad the comfort you have already received from God.\u201d There have been some amazing studies on the power of the church. There is a doctor, Harold Koenig, at Duke University, who studies the difference between people who are involved in a church and people who aren\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat the church can do and should do and often does do is take care of the things that keep you from healing through your own body\u2019s properties. Any doctor will tell you, \u201cI can line things up, but the body has to heal the bone, the body has to heal the cells, the body has to stitch it back together. What I need to get rid of is to allow the patient to concentrate only on healing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf they\u2019re concerned with fear, \u2018I\u2019m going to die,\u2019 or anxiety, \u2018What\u2019s going to happen to my family? Who\u2019s going to take care of my kids?\u2019, Who\u2019s going to fix dinner for my family?\u2019\u2014these questions, if they\u2019re connected with a church, very often a church will say, \u201cWe\u2019ll fix dinner for you. We\u2019ll take care of your kids for a while, certainly while you go to the doctor. We\u2019ll look after your dog while you\u2019re in the hospital.\u201d It allows you to give all your energy and strength toward getting well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, he says, \u201cbelonging to a church will extend your life as much as smoking two packs of cigarettes a day will diminish your life.\u201d So the moral is, if you really have to smoke, you better belong to a church. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s kind of an amazing statistic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that something?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Yes, but he has the stats to back it up. That\u2019s what we\u2019re supposed to be doing. Yes, we lament, but the great thing about a body, the great thing about a community, is that there are going to be people who are lamenting with you, and then there are others going to say, \u201cYes, I used to feel like that, and this is what happened, and I\u2019m so grateful now,\u201d like a Joni Eareckson Tada. And the church represents different stages of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA healthy body\u2014I learned this phrase from my collaborator, Dr. Paul Brand. He said, \u201cA healthy body is not a body that feels no pain. That\u2019s a very vulnerable body. The healthy body is a body that attends to the pain of the weakest part,\u201d and that\u2019s what we should be doing as a church, looking for those people in our congregation who are going through the hard stuff, and encouraging people to be honest and authentic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou go to so many churches and, \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d \u201cJust fine.\u201d Actually you know that\u2019s not true, but people want to look good in church. In some ways we ought to be more like an AA group, where you start off with saying, \u201cI\u2019m a mess.\u201d In AA they say, \u201cI\u2019m an alcoholic,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m a drug addict.\u201d We need to say, \u201cI\u2019m struggling right now,\u201d and feel free to do that. Not be punished, but to be rewarded and to be responded to in the best way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember Chuck Swindoll writing something similar. He said the church should be more like a bar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know when you walk in a bar and you sit beside a total stranger and say, \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d They\u2019ll go, \u201cAhhhh, my life\u2019s terrible right now.\u201d \u201cOh, let\u2019s talk about it.\u201d And you go to church and say, \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d they lie.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Yes, you\u2019re right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If they felt like, \u201cOh, this is a safe place. I can say what\u2019s really going on.\u201d \u2014It\u2019s interesting that when I asked you how to process your pain, you go to community. That\u2019s so not thought of, because often in our pain we pull away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If we\u2019re struggling with disappointment with God, we keep it private, we pull it away, especially from the church community, because \u201cnobody else there is struggling like I am.\u201d Yet you just highlighted one of the answers is the body, get to the body. But the body has to be a place where people want to get to. \u201cI know I can bring that there. Those people there are going to receive me, and they\u2019re going to walk with me rather than reject me and say, \u2018No, you\u2019re in sin to struggle with that.\u2019\u201d They\u2019re going to welcome you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> If people are in a church where the congregants aren\u2019t necessarily honest and vulnerable with their pain, would you advise them that they go find a different church?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would. What are you going to say? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Philip:<\/strong> At least a small group. I\u2019ve traveled a lot in different countries, and I think some of it is the American thing. We\u2019re success oriented, you only hear good stories on TV about those who achieve. We kind of transfer that to our churches. But if you go to places where Christianity is a tiny minority, and you can\u2019t advance above a certain level in university or in a job because you\u2019re a Christian. You\u2019re discriminated against like Communist countries, some Islamic countries, then they lean on each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey need each other to get through a day, and that\u2019s where I see real community at work. I\u2019ve been to churches in prisons that are just like that, where people can\u2019t get through a day without leaning on each other and being honest, and having somebody support them and understand them. I think we just need to punch that balloon, that successful American, \u201ceverything\u2019s fine\u201d balloon, because it\u2019s not. The only way we\u2019re going to grow is by depending on other people to help us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was just going to say, everything, I think, Philip you\u2019ve said about the church could also be said about the family. We\u2019re a family and marriage program, and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cMan, if our kids or our spouse felt like this is a community, this family, where I can be me. I can bring victory, I can bring defeat, I can bring celebration, I can bring lament. It\u2019s safe here. Of all the places of my whole life, that\u2019s where I want to run when I\u2019m troubled.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s a haven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI want to run home, because there I\u2019m loved, I\u2019m seen, if I\u2019m crying, they\u2019re going to weep with me. If I\u2019m joyful, they\u2019re going to be joyful with me.\u201d Man, Mom and Dad, create an environment where that\u2019s happening, where your kids want to run to your house because everywhere else it doesn\u2019t feel safe, but there it does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m just thinking about the person, Dave, that maybe is experiencing that or in it right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I think that\u2019s a lot of us. Disappointment with God is a real thing, and as Philip said, it isn\u2019t always the big, tragic, \u201cGod doesn\u2019t come through,\u201d but the little, everyday disappointments that add up\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The ongoing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and you\u2019re just completely disappointed. But let me remind you what Philip said. There is a God. He has a title. He\u2019s the God of All Comfort.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that good?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He will meet you right where you are. I know it\u2019s hard to believe right now, but He is meeting you right now, even through this program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me just say thanks to those of you who make this program possible. You\u2019re donors, you\u2019re FamilyLife partners with us, you give financially, you pray for this program, and you just helped somebody, right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And maybe you\u2019re at a point, too, where you\u2019ve stepped out of that season of pain or discouragement, and you\u2019re thinking, \u201cI want to be that person that brings hope to another family.\u201d So you could partner with us and be a donor to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Hi. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. Yes, Dave and Ann are totally right. Imagine the impact that you can make when your gift is doubled over the next year. When you walk out your front door, or witness what\u2019s going on with so many people, you don\u2019t have to look very hard to see that there\u2019s really a significant need amongst marriages and families. Your gift to FamilyLife helps to reach people who need the hope of Jesus right where God has placed you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo your recurring donation, doubled through the matching gift, will help guide people to God\u2019s plan for marriage and family through our radio broadcasts, through things like our podcasts, through events like the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, through small group resources, website tools, and so many other additional life-changing resources. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo if you want to become a partner you can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com or give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, the number is 800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNon-traditional families are now considered traditional. As churches, how do we meet changing needs and serve them really well? I mean heartfelt well. Well, tomorrow listen to Ron Deal\u2019s conversation with three senior pastors on why and how to love all families, despite the narrative of their past. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor supported production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a <em>Cru<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. 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