{"id":307734,"date":"2023-05-05T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-05-05T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/whats-behind-their-faith-questions-sean-mcdowell-2\/"},"modified":"2025-01-09T09:44:18","modified_gmt":"2025-01-09T14:44:18","slug":"whats-behind-their-faith-questions-sean-mcdowell-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-behind-their-faith-questions-sean-mcdowell-2\/","title":{"rendered":"What&#8217;s Behind Their Faith Questions? Sean McDowell"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When someone doesn&#8217;t know Jesus, their brain isn&#8217;t the only thing tossing out arguments. Author Sean McDowell looks to deeper hurt behind faith questions.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When someone doesn&#8217;t know Jesus, their brain isn&#8217;t the only thing tossing out arguments. Author Sean McDowell looks to deeper hurt behind faith questions.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-05.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:41","filesize":"56.19M","filesize_raw":"58918790","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2934],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8629],"cwp_profile":[9849],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307734","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-relationships","podcast_series-a-rebels-manifesto-sean-mcdowell","cwp_profile-dr-sean-mcdowell","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307734\/whats-behind-their-faith-questions-sean-mcdowell-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307734\/whats-behind-their-faith-questions-sean-mcdowell-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"86bbF0x1LE\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-behind-their-faith-questions-sean-mcdowell-2\/\">What&#8217;s Behind Their Faith Questions? Sean McDowell<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-behind-their-faith-questions-sean-mcdowell-2\/embed\/#?secret=86bbF0x1LE\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What&#8217;s Behind Their Faith Questions? Sean McDowell&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"86bbF0x1LE\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-05.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-05.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> A digital \u201clike\u201d cannot replace a physical hug. There\u2019s a lot of people who are trying to find their identity through social media or internet alone, apart from real incarnational relationships. I think the pandemic really exacerbated the loneliness that was there before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you think the issues that our kids are dealing with today are different than twenty, twenty-five years ago? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When we were parents and were raising kids in the nineties, early two thousands\u2014isn\u2019t that when we raised them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can hardly remember\u2014are the issues totally different for parents with their kids in 2023? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think they are. Mainly I say that because of social media. It\u2019s totally different. Now are there issues like bullying, loneliness, not being able to get alone; all of that\u2019s true. But it looks different today because of social media, I think. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s heightened today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We thought it was hard when we did it. You talk about now; it\u2019s like, Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There are a lot more places, I think, for kids to escape today than there were before. That\u2019s interesting to navigate as a parent and to know how to navigate that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got help in the studio today to help us [as] parents with these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSean, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Honored to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You are a parent, let alone a professor and a teacher and an author. Your latest book, <em>A Rebel's Manifesto<\/em>. Did you even think of parents when you were writing it? Is that on your radar? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Oh, 100 percent. My first book had ten chapters, because I thought, \u201cWell, you have ten chapters in a book.\u201d Then I went back to write as a parent; I said, \u201cOh, what tool would I use with my kids?\u201d So, 30 chapters, shorter and it\u2019s a set up to read together five, six, seven minutes and then talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The subtitle is <em>Choosing Truth, Real Justice, and Love amid the Noise of Today's World<\/em>. You\u2019ve hit all the topics parents are discussing or want to discuss or need to discuss with their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s a question: Did you do it with your kids; did you talk through these with them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes and no. I haven\u2019t taken them through my book, chapter by chapter, because that\u2019s a little bit weird: \u201cHere, let\u2019s go through Dad\u2019s book.\u201d But what I have done is in class\u2014I have my kids in a private school, and we\u2019ve gone through one of my books chapter by chapter and to discuss it as a class\u2014had them in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had my daughter\u2014kids respond differently\u2014my book before this same format but on sexuality is\u2014I told my daughter; said, \u201cIf you\u2019ll read this, and then just talk with your dad about it over coffee, I\u2019ll buy you a pair of shoes or something like that.\u201d [Laughter] And she did it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve talked about a lot of these topics over the dinner table, in the car, relationally. But I don\u2019t sit down and make my kids go through my book. [Laughter] That would be a little much probably. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is loneliness a factor today more than\u2014that\u2019s probably always been an issue, but is it heightened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I think loneliness has always been there, but I think it is heightened for a couple of reasons. One being social media. It\u2019s not that I think social media is bad, and even smart phones. In some ways it can be good, and it can be great. But a digital \u201clike\u201d cannot replace a physical hug. There\u2019s a lot of people who are trying to find their identity though social media or internet alone, apart from real incarnational relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one reason. I think the other one\u2014I think the pandemic really exacerbated the loneliness that was there before. Really what\u2019s the root of loneliness? It\u2019s broken relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can see going back to the 60\u2019s, the 80\u2019s and 90\u2019s and today, we see divorce overall has increased, relationships are broken, marriage has broken down. Yes, there\u2019s always been loneliness, but I think the tools that we have, what\u2019s been changed through the pandemic: less people going out than in the past than just meeting in the flesh. I think loneliness is more serious than it\u2019s been in a while at least in American history and beyond. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Have you seen that with your college students? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, I have. I\u2019ve seen it with high school students and college students. Now at Biola we have pretty unique students\u2014aren\u2019t just a cross section of any students. They\u2019re coming to get a Christian education, coming to think Christianly. We have an amazing community at Biola. But I would say even amongst some of the best Christian families there are still a lot of kids in my classroom with broken relationships with their parents; a lot more than you would think. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s true in our Christian families. It\u2019s true in our Christian churches. It\u2019s true in our best Christian schools. I don\u2019t make assumptions with my students. The deeper I probe, yes, I see a lot of hurt and brokenness there that you would not expect on the surface.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to a parent who is sensing, \u201cMy daughter is lonely. I can feel it; I can see it.\u201d Talk about the loneliness factor. If I\u2019m seeing that in my home\u2014yet often I think we look as a parent [and] we see our child on a smart phone all day long, and we think, \u201cThey\u2019re not lonely because they\u2019re interacting with their friends.\u201d But there are symptoms in their life that seem to be \u201cMan, their isolated and feeling lonely.\u201d How do we step into that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> First thing I would do is talk with my wife, because chances are she saw it long before I did. [Laughter] If I see it, it\u2019s like flashing red signs and I missed all obvious hints. So, I just make sure \u201cWhat do you see? Are we on the same page?\u201d We would talk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI might, respecting that kid, depending on dynamics, I might go to a sibling and say, \u201cDo you think your brother or sister\u2014I\u2019ve noticed this; I\u2019m just curious if you think, as parents, we\u2019re on this. Do you see anything at school? Do you think we should have any concern?\u201d Without gossiping behind that kid\u2019s back, I might do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut most importantly, I would just go to that kid in the right setting. Maybe I\u2019d say, \u201cI want to take you out to ice cream or take you out to coffee and just chat,\u201d and say, \u201cI just want to hear your heart. Here are some things your mom and I have seen. Are we right to see this? Are you feeling this way? I just want to hear you out. What\u2019s going on?\u201d and talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve found that\u2019s the best way to get to the heart of it. If you notice something significant that concerns you\u2014one of the things that I\u2019ve learned, as a communicator, is I know very quickly when I\u2019m over my depth and out of my expertise and I need a counselor and I need somebody professional to help\u2014so look for those signs. But start by talking with your spouse and then just go into the kid and ask him and open up a conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You write, in that chapter on loneliness, about your dad. How old were you when you first heard about your dad\u2019s background?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I heard about my dad\u2019s background probably as soon as I could speak, because he came from an alcoholic father, his older sister committed suicide, just a <em>broken family<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were sitting around as a family, maybe a decade ago, and my mom was sharing funny stories from growing up in Boston, and my sister, Heather, goes, \u201cDad, share a good memory, a funny story you have when you were a kid.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave and Ann, it was awkward silence. He goes, \u201cKids, I don\u2019t have <em>one<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I\u2019m feeling it right now. It was <em>\u201cNot one<\/em>. Holy cow!\u201d I knew it my whole life but that, about a decade ago, really brought it home; like, \u201cHoly cow! I feel that!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the thing he started sharing maybe about a dozen years ago publicly is that he had been sexually abused. He didn\u2019t suppress it. He had gotten professional help with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember he sat us down as a family, just us, me and my three sisters, and I thought in my mind, \u201cHe\u2019s going to tell us he\u2019s dying of cancer.\u201d That\u2019s how grave it was, and he shared with us, and my sister was in tears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you realize how painful and hurtful that is and the scars that that leaves. <em>That\u2019s so many kids in this generation<\/em>: sexual abuse, bullying, broken relationships. That\u2019s why his story still resonates with Gen Z, because they\u2019re saying, \u201cI felt that, and I\u2019ve experience that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That makes me want to cry for him to not have one memory\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to be able to share. It\u2019s pretty incredible of the legacy now for you guys, for your kids coming from that. It reminds me of you, too, Dave.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I was\u2014Sean, when you were saying that I was thinking, \u201cI would have a similar answer to memories when I was a little boy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMom and Dad divorced. Dad left with his girlfriend. I watched the whole thing when I was a little boy. I didn\u2019t have the sexual abuse. But I know that, and you write about this, all my life I think deep inside there was a little bit of loneliness. I have two brothers and a sister, but they\u2019re ten years older, so they were gone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen the divorce happened for me, I was seven. I had a little brother. He <em>dies of leukemia that year. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m raised basically by a single mom; just me. My escape was sports and music. I just immersed in that. But I think, at the heart of it I was very lonely. I\u2019d come home to our house; nobody was there. My mom was working several jobs to pay. I walk in a house, and I\u2019m alone, so I\u2019d pick up a guitar or I pick up a ball. I became proficient at those things, but I think it was an escape. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow today, you write about it. There\u2019s smart phones, entertainment. You name it, there\u2019s endless means for us to placate our loneliness or our sense of emptiness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Are there counterfeits where we escape? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, to your question at the beginning \u201cWhat makes it different?\u201d The issues at their core are kind of the same. But we\u2019ve never had <em>endless ways<\/em> to distract ourselves. Frankly, a lot of social media releases the same chemicals in your brain that certain drugs do. You get a certain high from it. They\u2019re designed to [make] you addicted to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI used to have my students journal a few years ago. This was a freshman in high school. I said, \u201cWrite for five minutes nonstop; just write \u2018Why do you think we keep ourselves so busy?\u2019\u201d These are freshmen, so most of them didn\u2019t have deep answers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I\u2019ll never forget one girl wrote, \u201cI keep myself busy and distracted so I don\u2019t have to slow down and feel the loneliness in my heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cShe is speaking for <em>many<\/em> in this generation.\u201d Sometimes I just watch social media and try to analyze it. So much of it is \u201cDo you see me? Will you \u201clike\u201d? Will you comment? Am I important?\u201d That\u2019s at the heart of so much of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we don\u2019t give our kids the relationships they need, they\u2019re going to fill it with something else: they\u2019re going to fill it with pornography, they\u2019re going to fill it with success, fill it with sports. Obviously, sports and success aren\u2019t bad; pornography always is, but these are ways of filling up the human heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s always been loneliness. We talked about that. But this generation can distract themselves from dealing with the root issue unlike any generation before. If we\u2019re not intentional and we don\u2019t step in, they\u2019re going to allow themselves to live a life accepting these relational counterfeits. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But as parents, we get so worried about our kids that we react, that we shut things down and we\u2019re not sure how to address the loneliness. I don\u2019t think we\u2019re thinking \u201clonely. Most of the time I\u2019d say, \u201cYou guys are so stinking lazy. You\u2019re getting nothing accomplished.\u201d This was terrible. I\u2019d have to always come back and apologize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we\u2019re not sure how to go about that. Maybe if we say it nicely, they don\u2019t hear us. What has been your experience, Sean, with this whole thing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> First off, I resonate with you. [Laughter] I write books on this, but I apologize to my kids. My wife and I are \u201cLet\u2019s start over, another reboot. This isn\u2019t working.\u201d It\u2019s a process. You\u2019re never going to have it perfectly dialed in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think a lot of parents don\u2019t fight these battles because it\u2019s just easier not to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you give up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> It takes effort; it takes work. And we don\u2019t. What happens? <em>The kid suffers for it<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, we should battle the issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, in the sense of\u2014I think there\u2019s a good amount of data that shows that kids want reasonable boundaries with technology. It\u2019s true in my classroom; it\u2019s true when I speak; it\u2019s true in our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow it has to be reasonable. There are times my kids have told me, \u201cThat\u2019s totally unreasonable,\u201d and we\u2019ve backed off. You negotiate this a little bit. As long as you have reasonable boundaries, you state why, and you hold kids consistently to it, I\u2019ve found, as a whole, they will respond to it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s a start. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think at the end of the day, if we\u2019re not living it ourselves, they\u2019re not going to listen to what we say [and] they\u2019re going to do what we do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTalk about this: You have a chapter on bullying. It\u2019s always been a part of a child\u2019s experience, especially at school.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> It has. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But it seems like a different world now. How do we navigate that one? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I think the obvious huge difference is I remember growing up [in the] 80\u2019s and 90\u2019s, if somebody\u2019s bullied, they could go home and escape it. Worst case scenario go to a different school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow you go home; you can\u2019t escape it. Now <em>other people<\/em> are piling on top of it, so it makes it worse. It\u2019s <em>everywhere<\/em> you go. Also, you can\u2019t even just switch schools, because your reputation goes with you. It can create a fear in this generation: \u201cIf I just say the wrong thing, I\u2019m going to get bullied.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the reality is there are three parties in bullying. There\u2019s the person who\u2019s bullied, there\u2019s the bully and there\u2019s the bystander. As far as I can remember, I\u2019ve never bullied anybody. I was not bullied often. I can think of once or twice. I think growing up I had ways to navigate and protect myself from that that I figured out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut a couple of times I can look back, I remember one time in high school I was a bystander. The kind of kid who could easily get bullied was getting bullied by a senior football player, and I didn\u2019t do anything. I look back at that still to this day when it [comes] to my mind [I feel] a sense of shame and regret and anger. I don\u2019t know what I would do. Maybe I\u2019d just tackle that guy and take one for the team. I don\u2019t know, but I would have done something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody is affected by this even if your kid\u2019s not getting bullied. I still have conversations with my son: \u201cDoes this take place? What do people say? How do you respond?\u201d And try to navigate it. We\u2019re <em>all<\/em> one of those three parties and I think Scripture has something to say to all three of those issues, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Those two things can go together, that loneliness part and the bullying. We can see our kids withdraw because they\u2019re being bullied. So, they withdraw from any kind of social issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a parent you\u2019re watching it. They don\u2019t always open up to us; our kids don\u2019t always open up. Is there a way, do you think, Sean? How would you advise a parent to get into that, to really get into their kid\u2019s hearts?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got to start young and build relationships with our kids. There\u2019s no \u201cJust ask this question, Do this turnkey thing,\u201d because kids are different, and they respond in different ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen the Bible talks about \u201cTrain up a kid in the way that he should go and he will not depart from that,\u201d [Proverbs 22:6, Paraphrased] the analogy that is used is a bow. Each bow used to have its own unique bent because they were not mass produced. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I think about how I connect with the heart of my youngest son, it\u2019s different than my daughter, it\u2019s different than my older son. That takes some wisdom to meet them where they are at, but I build relationships with all of them; I spend time with them. So, when these issues come up, there\u2019s some trust that\u2019s there and I\u2019m more likely to be able to speak into their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What if we haven\u2019t done that; like, \u201cI\u2019ve done a horrible job of that, and I\u2019m seeing my kids are really struggling. Is it too late because I didn\u2019t build that in the early years?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> It\u2019s never too late. Is it going to be harder?\u201d Yes. But all you can do is give yourself grace and then start where you are at.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say for example, as a kid, I might say something like, \u201cIs there a chance we can go to coffee? <em>I just want to hear you out. That\u2019s all I want to do.<\/em> Would you be willing to hear me out and help me better understand you?\u201d<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think most kids would say, \u201cYes.\u201d You say, \u201cI have some regrets in life, and one of them is that I was not more present in your life and didn\u2019t do a better job as a dad,\u201d or \u201ca mom.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cAll you can do is ask for your forgiveness and see if you\u2019d be willing to commit to helping me be a better dad to you.\u201d <em>What more could you do than that?<\/em> Could a kid, like you said in earlier conversation, could a kid still say, \u201cNo, I hate you\u201d? Sure; then you pray for them, and you try again. You don\u2019t give up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKids want relationships with their parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They want it. Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> They do. There\u2019s just hurt and there\u2019s misunderstanding and there\u2019s stupidity because they\u2019re young. [Laughter] But we\u2019ve got to break through that with love and your kindness that leads to repentance, Paul says. [Romans 2:4, Paraphrased]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s my question: Your youngest is ten; your oldest is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014eighteen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014eighteen. Three [children]. I don\u2019t know them. It sounds like you\u2019ve done a lot of good things. What would you say is your biggest parenting mistake or regret? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I guess I\u2019d say a couple of things. It\u2019s a tradeoff for me traveling a decent amount. My dad was probably gone half the time. I don\u2019t want to be gone that much for the way I\u2019m wired, so I travel less than that. But I\u2019m still gone a decent amount, and it\u2019s an ongoing conversation in my mind: \u201cAm I balancing this well?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s something that I\u2019ve had to navigate with my wife and with our kids and try to figure out. I don\u2019t even know that I would do anything differently. But there\u2019s certainly times I\u2019ve been on the road and I\u2019m saying, \u201cWhy am I here? What am I doing at this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s probably a piece of it. I can think of times where I\u2019ve said stuff to my kids that was hurtful. My kids like to make fun of me because my son would study in my office, and he would leave food. I\u2019d say, \u201cDon\u2019t-eat-in-my-office!\u201d He left food and I was so mad. I took this orange and I said, \u201cYou know what, you clean up, and I threw it on the ground. I stormed out of there. In my mind I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m being such an idiot.\u201d I knew it. [Laughter] But they\u2019ll still make fun of me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are stupid things I\u2019ve said and stupid things I did, but to be honest with you, my son graduated last May. When somebody graduates, it puts it in perspective. I don\u2019t have a lot of regrets in my parenting. I don\u2019t know how that lands with some of your audience. You asked me, so I\u2019m going to give you an honest response: I don\u2019t have a lot of regrets. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is super hopeful because of hearing your dad\u2019s story at the beginning [and] how horrendous it was. There\u2019s hope that our kids\u2019 kids and our future generations can be whole and healthy, not perfect by any means. But by the grace of Jesus, there\u2019s hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Amen to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll tell you this: Just because I don\u2019t have regrets doesn\u2019t mean there [haven\u2019t] been times I\u2019ve been at a loss. There [were] times I could tell you where I\u2019d call up a friend and I\u2019d say, \u201cI literally do not even know what to do. I\u2019m at a complete loss how to parent.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you build that relationship over time, chances are it\u2019s going to come through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the relationship will win. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When I think about our time with Sean McDowell, I am always blown away by his grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>He is such a grace giver<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014so wise.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Last time he was here and again, it just hit me, I am so mean to people, I judge people, I am not that nice to people, especially when they have opposing views and maybe they\u2019re angry views against what I believe and what I think. <em>He models a Jesus-type love <\/em>for people.<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s so helpful for us, especially with our own children as we talk about faith issues. <em>A Rebel's Manifesto<\/em>; I didn\u2019t even know being a rebel means being a grace giver in a world where there\u2019s no grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think what impacts me so much is he gives us tools and he\u2019s super practical [with] \u201cWhat does this look like inside our homes and at our dinner table?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am grateful that we have a chance to offer this to you, our listeners. Because I don\u2019t know how you feel, but I need this as a parent and as a grandparent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think what Sean modeled for us is how to be a parent in this world and how to lead our families. I just want to say thank you to those that give financially to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, because you allow us to do this and sit with people like Sean. He is going to change conversations in our homes. That doesn't happen if you don\u2019t partner with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a listener and you have never given before, I say, \u201cJump in.\u201d This is not only helping you. But as you give to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you are helping other families benefit from the kind of programs you just listened to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> That\u2019s great, Dave. The unique thing that is happening this month is that any gift that you give is going to be matched dollar for dollar for the next 12 months. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you join as a FamilyLife partner this month, as a special thank you for partnering with us monthly, we\u2019d love to share with you <em>Drawn Together<\/em>, a couple\u2019s devotional inspired by <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u2019s<em> Art of Marriage<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a devotional with several contributors including Aaron and Jamie Ivy, David and Meg Robbins, Juli Slattery, Ron Deal, Dennis and Barbara Rainey, Bob Lepine, Dave and Ann Wilson and many more. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you could give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that could be a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. The number is 800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve really appreciated the time Dave and Ann had with Sean McDowell. He\u2019s written a book called <em>A Rebel's Manifesto: Choosing Truth, Real Justice, and Love amid the Noise of Today's World, <\/em>and it is noisy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou could pick up a copy of Sean\u2019s book at FamilyLifeToday.com, or again, you could give us a call at 800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, coming up next week Tori Hope and Jacob Petersen are going to be talking to us about fostering children and the complications that come with that along with the glory that can be brought to God in the suffering of fostering children. That\u2019s next week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<a id=\"_Hlk133503283\"><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/a>. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:30:41"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["56.19M"],"filesize_raw":["58918790"],"_edit_lock":["1736433861:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307734.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307734.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top 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someone doesn't know Jesus, their brain isn't the only thing tossing out arguments. Author Sean McDowell looks to deeper hurt behind faith questions.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-05-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> A digital \u201clike\u201d cannot replace a physical hug. There\u2019s a lot of people who are trying to find their identity through social media or internet alone, apart from real incarnational relationships. I think the pandemic really exacerbated the loneliness that was there before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you think the issues that our kids are dealing with today are different than twenty, twenty-five years ago? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When we were parents and were raising kids in the nineties, early two thousands\u2014isn\u2019t that when we raised them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can hardly remember\u2014are the issues totally different for parents with their kids in 2023? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think they are. Mainly I say that because of social media. It\u2019s totally different. Now are there issues like bullying, loneliness, not being able to get alone; all of that\u2019s true. But it looks different today because of social media, I think. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s heightened today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We thought it was hard when we did it. You talk about now; it\u2019s like, Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There are a lot more places, I think, for kids to escape today than there were before. That\u2019s interesting to navigate as a parent and to know how to navigate that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got help in the studio today to help us [as] parents with these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSean, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Honored to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You are a parent, let alone a professor and a teacher and an author. Your latest book, <em>A Rebel's Manifesto<\/em>. Did you even think of parents when you were writing it? Is that on your radar? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Oh, 100 percent. My first book had ten chapters, because I thought, \u201cWell, you have ten chapters in a book.\u201d Then I went back to write as a parent; I said, \u201cOh, what tool would I use with my kids?\u201d So, 30 chapters, shorter and it\u2019s a set up to read together five, six, seven minutes and then talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The subtitle is <em>Choosing Truth, Real Justice, and Love amid the Noise of Today's World<\/em>. You\u2019ve hit all the topics parents are discussing or want to discuss or need to discuss with their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s a question: Did you do it with your kids; did you talk through these with them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes and no. I haven\u2019t taken them through my book, chapter by chapter, because that\u2019s a little bit weird: \u201cHere, let\u2019s go through Dad\u2019s book.\u201d But what I have done is in class\u2014I have my kids in a private school, and we\u2019ve gone through one of my books chapter by chapter and to discuss it as a class\u2014had them in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had my daughter\u2014kids respond differently\u2014my book before this same format but on sexuality is\u2014I told my daughter; said, \u201cIf you\u2019ll read this, and then just talk with your dad about it over coffee, I\u2019ll buy you a pair of shoes or something like that.\u201d [Laughter] And she did it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve talked about a lot of these topics over the dinner table, in the car, relationally. But I don\u2019t sit down and make my kids go through my book. [Laughter] That would be a little much probably. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is loneliness a factor today more than\u2014that\u2019s probably always been an issue, but is it heightened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I think loneliness has always been there, but I think it is heightened for a couple of reasons. One being social media. It\u2019s not that I think social media is bad, and even smart phones. In some ways it can be good, and it can be great. But a digital \u201clike\u201d cannot replace a physical hug. There\u2019s a lot of people who are trying to find their identity though social media or internet alone, apart from real incarnational relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one reason. I think the other one\u2014I think the pandemic really exacerbated the loneliness that was there before. Really what\u2019s the root of loneliness? It\u2019s broken relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can see going back to the 60\u2019s, the 80\u2019s and 90\u2019s and today, we see divorce overall has increased, relationships are broken, marriage has broken down. Yes, there\u2019s always been loneliness, but I think the tools that we have, what\u2019s been changed through the pandemic: less people going out than in the past than just meeting in the flesh. I think loneliness is more serious than it\u2019s been in a while at least in American history and beyond. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Have you seen that with your college students? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, I have. I\u2019ve seen it with high school students and college students. Now at Biola we have pretty unique students\u2014aren\u2019t just a cross section of any students. They\u2019re coming to get a Christian education, coming to think Christianly. We have an amazing community at Biola. But I would say even amongst some of the best Christian families there are still a lot of kids in my classroom with broken relationships with their parents; a lot more than you would think. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s true in our Christian families. It\u2019s true in our Christian churches. It\u2019s true in our best Christian schools. I don\u2019t make assumptions with my students. The deeper I probe, yes, I see a lot of hurt and brokenness there that you would not expect on the surface.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to a parent who is sensing, \u201cMy daughter is lonely. I can feel it; I can see it.\u201d Talk about the loneliness factor. If I\u2019m seeing that in my home\u2014yet often I think we look as a parent [and] we see our child on a smart phone all day long, and we think, \u201cThey\u2019re not lonely because they\u2019re interacting with their friends.\u201d But there are symptoms in their life that seem to be \u201cMan, their isolated and feeling lonely.\u201d How do we step into that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> First thing I would do is talk with my wife, because chances are she saw it long before I did. [Laughter] If I see it, it\u2019s like flashing red signs and I missed all obvious hints. So, I just make sure \u201cWhat do you see? Are we on the same page?\u201d We would talk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI might, respecting that kid, depending on dynamics, I might go to a sibling and say, \u201cDo you think your brother or sister\u2014I\u2019ve noticed this; I\u2019m just curious if you think, as parents, we\u2019re on this. Do you see anything at school? Do you think we should have any concern?\u201d Without gossiping behind that kid\u2019s back, I might do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut most importantly, I would just go to that kid in the right setting. Maybe I\u2019d say, \u201cI want to take you out to ice cream or take you out to coffee and just chat,\u201d and say, \u201cI just want to hear your heart. Here are some things your mom and I have seen. Are we right to see this? Are you feeling this way? I just want to hear you out. What\u2019s going on?\u201d and talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve found that\u2019s the best way to get to the heart of it. If you notice something significant that concerns you\u2014one of the things that I\u2019ve learned, as a communicator, is I know very quickly when I\u2019m over my depth and out of my expertise and I need a counselor and I need somebody professional to help\u2014so look for those signs. But start by talking with your spouse and then just go into the kid and ask him and open up a conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You write, in that chapter on loneliness, about your dad. How old were you when you first heard about your dad\u2019s background?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I heard about my dad\u2019s background probably as soon as I could speak, because he came from an alcoholic father, his older sister committed suicide, just a <em>broken family<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were sitting around as a family, maybe a decade ago, and my mom was sharing funny stories from growing up in Boston, and my sister, Heather, goes, \u201cDad, share a good memory, a funny story you have when you were a kid.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave and Ann, it was awkward silence. He goes, \u201cKids, I don\u2019t have <em>one<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I\u2019m feeling it right now. It was <em>\u201cNot one<\/em>. Holy cow!\u201d I knew it my whole life but that, about a decade ago, really brought it home; like, \u201cHoly cow! I feel that!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the thing he started sharing maybe about a dozen years ago publicly is that he had been sexually abused. He didn\u2019t suppress it. He had gotten professional help with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember he sat us down as a family, just us, me and my three sisters, and I thought in my mind, \u201cHe\u2019s going to tell us he\u2019s dying of cancer.\u201d That\u2019s how grave it was, and he shared with us, and my sister was in tears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you realize how painful and hurtful that is and the scars that that leaves. <em>That\u2019s so many kids in this generation<\/em>: sexual abuse, bullying, broken relationships. That\u2019s why his story still resonates with Gen Z, because they\u2019re saying, \u201cI felt that, and I\u2019ve experience that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That makes me want to cry for him to not have one memory\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to be able to share. It\u2019s pretty incredible of the legacy now for you guys, for your kids coming from that. It reminds me of you, too, Dave.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I was\u2014Sean, when you were saying that I was thinking, \u201cI would have a similar answer to memories when I was a little boy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMom and Dad divorced. Dad left with his girlfriend. I watched the whole thing when I was a little boy. I didn\u2019t have the sexual abuse. But I know that, and you write about this, all my life I think deep inside there was a little bit of loneliness. I have two brothers and a sister, but they\u2019re ten years older, so they were gone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen the divorce happened for me, I was seven. I had a little brother. He <em>dies of leukemia that year. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m raised basically by a single mom; just me. My escape was sports and music. I just immersed in that. But I think, at the heart of it I was very lonely. I\u2019d come home to our house; nobody was there. My mom was working several jobs to pay. I walk in a house, and I\u2019m alone, so I\u2019d pick up a guitar or I pick up a ball. I became proficient at those things, but I think it was an escape. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow today, you write about it. There\u2019s smart phones, entertainment. You name it, there\u2019s endless means for us to placate our loneliness or our sense of emptiness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Are there counterfeits where we escape? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, to your question at the beginning \u201cWhat makes it different?\u201d The issues at their core are kind of the same. But we\u2019ve never had <em>endless ways<\/em> to distract ourselves. Frankly, a lot of social media releases the same chemicals in your brain that certain drugs do. You get a certain high from it. They\u2019re designed to [make] you addicted to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI used to have my students journal a few years ago. This was a freshman in high school. I said, \u201cWrite for five minutes nonstop; just write \u2018Why do you think we keep ourselves so busy?\u2019\u201d These are freshmen, so most of them didn\u2019t have deep answers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I\u2019ll never forget one girl wrote, \u201cI keep myself busy and distracted so I don\u2019t have to slow down and feel the loneliness in my heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cShe is speaking for <em>many<\/em> in this generation.\u201d Sometimes I just watch social media and try to analyze it. So much of it is \u201cDo you see me? Will you \u201clike\u201d? Will you comment? Am I important?\u201d That\u2019s at the heart of so much of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we don\u2019t give our kids the relationships they need, they\u2019re going to fill it with something else: they\u2019re going to fill it with pornography, they\u2019re going to fill it with success, fill it with sports. Obviously, sports and success aren\u2019t bad; pornography always is, but these are ways of filling up the human heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s always been loneliness. We talked about that. But this generation can distract themselves from dealing with the root issue unlike any generation before. If we\u2019re not intentional and we don\u2019t step in, they\u2019re going to allow themselves to live a life accepting these relational counterfeits. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But as parents, we get so worried about our kids that we react, that we shut things down and we\u2019re not sure how to address the loneliness. I don\u2019t think we\u2019re thinking \u201clonely. Most of the time I\u2019d say, \u201cYou guys are so stinking lazy. You\u2019re getting nothing accomplished.\u201d This was terrible. I\u2019d have to always come back and apologize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we\u2019re not sure how to go about that. Maybe if we say it nicely, they don\u2019t hear us. What has been your experience, Sean, with this whole thing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> First off, I resonate with you. [Laughter] I write books on this, but I apologize to my kids. My wife and I are \u201cLet\u2019s start over, another reboot. This isn\u2019t working.\u201d It\u2019s a process. You\u2019re never going to have it perfectly dialed in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think a lot of parents don\u2019t fight these battles because it\u2019s just easier not to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you give up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> It takes effort; it takes work. And we don\u2019t. What happens? <em>The kid suffers for it<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, we should battle the issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, in the sense of\u2014I think there\u2019s a good amount of data that shows that kids want reasonable boundaries with technology. It\u2019s true in my classroom; it\u2019s true when I speak; it\u2019s true in our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow it has to be reasonable. There are times my kids have told me, \u201cThat\u2019s totally unreasonable,\u201d and we\u2019ve backed off. You negotiate this a little bit. As long as you have reasonable boundaries, you state why, and you hold kids consistently to it, I\u2019ve found, as a whole, they will respond to it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s a start. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think at the end of the day, if we\u2019re not living it ourselves, they\u2019re not going to listen to what we say [and] they\u2019re going to do what we do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTalk about this: You have a chapter on bullying. It\u2019s always been a part of a child\u2019s experience, especially at school.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> It has. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But it seems like a different world now. How do we navigate that one? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I think the obvious huge difference is I remember growing up [in the] 80\u2019s and 90\u2019s, if somebody\u2019s bullied, they could go home and escape it. Worst case scenario go to a different school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow you go home; you can\u2019t escape it. Now <em>other people<\/em> are piling on top of it, so it makes it worse. It\u2019s <em>everywhere<\/em> you go. Also, you can\u2019t even just switch schools, because your reputation goes with you. It can create a fear in this generation: \u201cIf I just say the wrong thing, I\u2019m going to get bullied.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the reality is there are three parties in bullying. There\u2019s the person who\u2019s bullied, there\u2019s the bully and there\u2019s the bystander. As far as I can remember, I\u2019ve never bullied anybody. I was not bullied often. I can think of once or twice. I think growing up I had ways to navigate and protect myself from that that I figured out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut a couple of times I can look back, I remember one time in high school I was a bystander. The kind of kid who could easily get bullied was getting bullied by a senior football player, and I didn\u2019t do anything. I look back at that still to this day when it [comes] to my mind [I feel] a sense of shame and regret and anger. I don\u2019t know what I would do. Maybe I\u2019d just tackle that guy and take one for the team. I don\u2019t know, but I would have done something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody is affected by this even if your kid\u2019s not getting bullied. I still have conversations with my son: \u201cDoes this take place? What do people say? How do you respond?\u201d And try to navigate it. We\u2019re <em>all<\/em> one of those three parties and I think Scripture has something to say to all three of those issues, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Those two things can go together, that loneliness part and the bullying. We can see our kids withdraw because they\u2019re being bullied. So, they withdraw from any kind of social issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a parent you\u2019re watching it. They don\u2019t always open up to us; our kids don\u2019t always open up. Is there a way, do you think, Sean? How would you advise a parent to get into that, to really get into their kid\u2019s hearts?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got to start young and build relationships with our kids. There\u2019s no \u201cJust ask this question, Do this turnkey thing,\u201d because kids are different, and they respond in different ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen the Bible talks about \u201cTrain up a kid in the way that he should go and he will not depart from that,\u201d [Proverbs 22:6, Paraphrased] the analogy that is used is a bow. Each bow used to have its own unique bent because they were not mass produced. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I think about how I connect with the heart of my youngest son, it\u2019s different than my daughter, it\u2019s different than my older son. That takes some wisdom to meet them where they are at, but I build relationships with all of them; I spend time with them. So, when these issues come up, there\u2019s some trust that\u2019s there and I\u2019m more likely to be able to speak into their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What if we haven\u2019t done that; like, \u201cI\u2019ve done a horrible job of that, and I\u2019m seeing my kids are really struggling. Is it too late because I didn\u2019t build that in the early years?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> It\u2019s never too late. Is it going to be harder?\u201d Yes. But all you can do is give yourself grace and then start where you are at.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say for example, as a kid, I might say something like, \u201cIs there a chance we can go to coffee? <em>I just want to hear you out. That\u2019s all I want to do.<\/em> Would you be willing to hear me out and help me better understand you?\u201d<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think most kids would say, \u201cYes.\u201d You say, \u201cI have some regrets in life, and one of them is that I was not more present in your life and didn\u2019t do a better job as a dad,\u201d or \u201ca mom.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cAll you can do is ask for your forgiveness and see if you\u2019d be willing to commit to helping me be a better dad to you.\u201d <em>What more could you do than that?<\/em> Could a kid, like you said in earlier conversation, could a kid still say, \u201cNo, I hate you\u201d? Sure; then you pray for them, and you try again. You don\u2019t give up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKids want relationships with their parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They want it. Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> They do. There\u2019s just hurt and there\u2019s misunderstanding and there\u2019s stupidity because they\u2019re young. [Laughter] But we\u2019ve got to break through that with love and your kindness that leads to repentance, Paul says. [Romans 2:4, Paraphrased]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s my question: Your youngest is ten; your oldest is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014eighteen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014eighteen. Three [children]. I don\u2019t know them. It sounds like you\u2019ve done a lot of good things. What would you say is your biggest parenting mistake or regret? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> I guess I\u2019d say a couple of things. It\u2019s a tradeoff for me traveling a decent amount. My dad was probably gone half the time. I don\u2019t want to be gone that much for the way I\u2019m wired, so I travel less than that. But I\u2019m still gone a decent amount, and it\u2019s an ongoing conversation in my mind: \u201cAm I balancing this well?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s something that I\u2019ve had to navigate with my wife and with our kids and try to figure out. I don\u2019t even know that I would do anything differently. But there\u2019s certainly times I\u2019ve been on the road and I\u2019m saying, \u201cWhy am I here? What am I doing at this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s probably a piece of it. I can think of times where I\u2019ve said stuff to my kids that was hurtful. My kids like to make fun of me because my son would study in my office, and he would leave food. I\u2019d say, \u201cDon\u2019t-eat-in-my-office!\u201d He left food and I was so mad. I took this orange and I said, \u201cYou know what, you clean up, and I threw it on the ground. I stormed out of there. In my mind I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m being such an idiot.\u201d I knew it. [Laughter] But they\u2019ll still make fun of me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are stupid things I\u2019ve said and stupid things I did, but to be honest with you, my son graduated last May. When somebody graduates, it puts it in perspective. I don\u2019t have a lot of regrets in my parenting. I don\u2019t know how that lands with some of your audience. You asked me, so I\u2019m going to give you an honest response: I don\u2019t have a lot of regrets. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is super hopeful because of hearing your dad\u2019s story at the beginning [and] how horrendous it was. There\u2019s hope that our kids\u2019 kids and our future generations can be whole and healthy, not perfect by any means. But by the grace of Jesus, there\u2019s hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sean:<\/strong> Amen to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll tell you this: Just because I don\u2019t have regrets doesn\u2019t mean there [haven\u2019t] been times I\u2019ve been at a loss. There [were] times I could tell you where I\u2019d call up a friend and I\u2019d say, \u201cI literally do not even know what to do. I\u2019m at a complete loss how to parent.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you build that relationship over time, chances are it\u2019s going to come through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the relationship will win. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When I think about our time with Sean McDowell, I am always blown away by his grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>He is such a grace giver<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014so wise.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Last time he was here and again, it just hit me, I am so mean to people, I judge people, I am not that nice to people, especially when they have opposing views and maybe they\u2019re angry views against what I believe and what I think. <em>He models a Jesus-type love <\/em>for people.<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s so helpful for us, especially with our own children as we talk about faith issues. <em>A Rebel's Manifesto<\/em>; I didn\u2019t even know being a rebel means being a grace giver in a world where there\u2019s no grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think what impacts me so much is he gives us tools and he\u2019s super practical [with] \u201cWhat does this look like inside our homes and at our dinner table?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am grateful that we have a chance to offer this to you, our listeners. Because I don\u2019t know how you feel, but I need this as a parent and as a grandparent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think what Sean modeled for us is how to be a parent in this world and how to lead our families. I just want to say thank you to those that give financially to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, because you allow us to do this and sit with people like Sean. He is going to change conversations in our homes. That doesn't happen if you don\u2019t partner with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a listener and you have never given before, I say, \u201cJump in.\u201d This is not only helping you. But as you give to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you are helping other families benefit from the kind of programs you just listened to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> That\u2019s great, Dave. The unique thing that is happening this month is that any gift that you give is going to be matched dollar for dollar for the next 12 months. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you join as a FamilyLife partner this month, as a special thank you for partnering with us monthly, we\u2019d love to share with you <em>Drawn Together<\/em>, a couple\u2019s devotional inspired by <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u2019s<em> Art of Marriage<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a devotional with several contributors including Aaron and Jamie Ivy, David and Meg Robbins, Juli Slattery, Ron Deal, Dennis and Barbara Rainey, Bob Lepine, Dave and Ann Wilson and many more. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you could give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, that could be a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. The number is 800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve really appreciated the time Dave and Ann had with Sean McDowell. He\u2019s written a book called <em>A Rebel's Manifesto: Choosing Truth, Real Justice, and Love amid the Noise of Today's World, <\/em>and it is noisy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou could pick up a copy of Sean\u2019s book at FamilyLifeToday.com, or again, you could give us a call at 800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, coming up next week Tori Hope and Jacob Petersen are going to be talking to us about fostering children and the complications that come with that along with the glory that can be brought to God in the suffering of fostering children. That\u2019s next week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a donor supported production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<a id=\"_Hlk133503283\"><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/a>. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/307734","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=307734"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=307734"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=307734"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=307734"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=307734"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=307734"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=307734"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}