{"id":307709,"date":"2023-03-15T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-03-15T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/help-someone-i-love-is-deconstructing-their-faith-john-marriott-2\/"},"modified":"2023-03-15T09:15:00","modified_gmt":"2023-03-15T13:15:00","slug":"help-someone-i-love-is-deconstructing-their-faith-john-marriott-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/help-someone-i-love-is-deconstructing-their-faith-john-marriott-2\/","title":{"rendered":"&#8220;Help! Someone I Love is Deconstructing their Faith&#8221;: John Marriott"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>When someone you care about is deconstructing, your pain and fear is real. Dr. John Marriott extends genuine help for trying to prevent faith loss.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tLearn more about John Marriott at johnmarriott.org<br \/>\n \tRead John Marriott&#8217;s article on how to help your kids avoid a crisis of faith.<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When someone you care about is deconstructing, your pain and fear is real. Dr. John Marriott extends genuine help for trying to prevent faith loss.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2023-03-15.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:41","filesize":"48.88M","filesize_raw":"51250941","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[2375],"podcast_series":[8613],"cwp_profile":[3605],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307709","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-deconstructing-faith","podcast_series-walking-with-someone-through-deconstruction-john-marriott","cwp_profile-john-marriott","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307709\/help-someone-i-love-is-deconstructing-their-faith-john-marriott-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307709\/help-someone-i-love-is-deconstructing-their-faith-john-marriott-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"aRWMWBrFjR\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/help-someone-i-love-is-deconstructing-their-faith-john-marriott-2\/\">&#8220;Help! Someone I Love is Deconstructing their Faith&#8221;: John Marriott<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/help-someone-i-love-is-deconstructing-their-faith-john-marriott-2\/embed\/#?secret=aRWMWBrFjR\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;&#8220;Help! Someone I Love is Deconstructing their Faith&#8221;: John Marriott&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"aRWMWBrFjR\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"When someone you care about is deconstructing, your pain and fear is real. Dr. John Marriott extends genuine help for trying to prevent faith loss.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-03-15.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>John:<\/strong> When heartache and hardship and suffering comes into our life, that opens up the door for those thoughts that have kind of been held at bay to come flooding through. So, \u201cI\u2019ve always wondered about this anyway,\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> What can I really trust You for if I can\u2019t trust You for my health? I can\u2019t trust You to make sure that I always have a job. I can\u2019t trust You that my kids are going to follow You. I can\u2019t trust You that my kids aren\u2019t going to get sick. Then what does it mean that You\u2019re good and what does it mean that I can trust You for?\u201d But we only have those questions, I think whenomething like that enters and that can be a catalyst for sure why people end up saying, \u201cNo, I, I don\u2019t believe in this.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Dave Wilson.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u00a0And I\u2019m Ann Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u00a0This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been talking about how the next generation seems to be walking away from the faith, walking away from their parent\u2019s faith, walking away from the church in record numbers, which is really, really scary.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So scary and daunting and we wonder as parents like, \u201cAm I doing anything that\u2019s contributing to our kids or this next generation walking away?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes and we\u2019ve had John Marriott here talking about this. John, we called you the expert. But I mean you\u2019ve studied this; you\u2019ve written about this. We\u2019ve got <em>The Recipe for Disaster <\/em>book, <em>Before You Go <\/em>book. You\u2019ve got other books as well, right John?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes, a couple more. There\u2019s one, its called <em>Going\u2026Going\u2026Gone <\/em>and the subtitle is [<em>Why Believers Lose Their Faith and What Can be Done to Guard Against It<\/em>]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That sounds really exciting there.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Oh yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>Going\u2026Going\u2026Gone<\/em> [Laughter]\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Same topic?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes, same topic. It\u2019s really quite short and it\u2019s free on my website if anyone is interested.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Your website is?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> https:\/\/www.johnmarriott.org\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> And it\u2019s <em>Going, Going, Gone: Why Believers Leave the Faith and What We Can Do to Guard Against It. <\/em>It\u2019s a very short, 150 pages, double spaced, kind of book.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> So it\u2019s small.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good. I mean we know you flew all the way from LA where you are a professor at Biola. You\u2019re interacting with students pretty much every day about this topic. Help us understand why are they going, going, gone? We\u2019ve already talked about intellectual questions, the culture. But as I\u2019ve read all your books, you mention that it\u2019s not just intellectual. And when I read that I\u2019m like, \u201cYou are so right.\u201d You\u2019re working with college students, what other factors are there besides, I don\u2019t believe because there\u2019s not enough evidence? Again, we spent the last two days investigating that so if you want to listen to that go back there. But there\u2019s emotions, what are the other factors?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Everyone who leaves the faith will say they left it because they don\u2019t believe it\u2019s true. They will never say, \u201cI left it because I want to sin. I left it because I\u2019m in rebellion.\u201d And well that might be why deeply the case, at least on the surface for them and speaking charitably of them they will say, \u201cI left because I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s true.\u201d When you ask, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you believe it\u2019s true anymore?\u201d There\u2019s the piece that we talked about last time the intellectual reasons. There\u2019s a direct correlation between the two, right?\n\nIf you have some intellectual problems, not enough evidence, contrary evidence then it\u2019s clear to you\u00a0 that the truth of Christianity doesn\u2019t follow. But then there\u2019s some indirect reasons that cause people to say, \u201cYes, this can\u2019t be true because\u2026\u201d and then there\u2019s some dots that need to be connected. Usually those would be things like, \u201cThis can\u2019t be true because of emotional reasons. Because if Christianity were true this wouldn\u2019t have happened and this wouldn\u2019t have happened and this wouldn\u2019t have happened - and all of those things happened - and I have been so deeply hurt and wounded, it\u2019s pretty clear to me that Christianity can\u2019t be true. Because if it was, then I would have been treated a lot better.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Hmm\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Or experiential reasons, \u201cI live my life in such a way that I follow God, I love God, I was committed to God, I sacrificed for God, and then something tragic happened in my life and I feel like, \u2018Is this what I get?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Or, \u201cWhat kind of a god could allow my pain?\u201d-\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2013for me to suffer like that, or my loved on to suffer like that.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Exactly. Then there is a sense of betrayal there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Hmm\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Right? This is no longer necessarily intellectual, this is deeply personal that God has not done for you, we have kind of a reciprocity agreement with God, right? We give Him what He wants, worship, adoration, obedience. We expect that He\u2019s going to repay the favor and give us what we want.\n\nOn the surface as Christians we know that\u2019s not a proper way to look at things. But I experienced this myself a number of years ago where my wife and I put all of our eggs into one basket and we really had felt the Lord had opened up some opportunities for a ministry that we were trying to start. All of the signs were pointing in this direction. We knew that it would be a little bit of a risk but we were okay taking that because we thought we had seen the hand of the Lord in this.\n\nWithin about a year and a half we were asking ourselves, \u201cWell, which car are we going to sell? When do we have to sell this house? When do we have to move in with your parents?\u201d I got to the point where I started thinking, \u201cSo this is what I get? Really Lord? I\u2019m going to rip my kids out of school, take them away from their friends, have my wife move across the country, live with her parents, feel like a failure. And I\u2019ve lived my life in a fairly consistent pattern of following You to varying degrees of proximity, but it\u2019s always been in the same direction.\u201d People you know, experience this a lot and I had to realize I never thought that I would say something like that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2013You know better, right?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> \u2013I know better.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you still\u2013we all do. Everybody does.-\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2013and that\u2019s, that\u2019s really really difficult, isn\u2019t it? Because it\u2019s personal.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> For sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember when I was in seminary, out in California, I had a bike in our garage stolen. The garage door was up, somebody stole the bike, probably some kid in the neighborhood and I just went on a search to find this\u2013I said, \u201cI\u2019m going to find my bike.\u201d It\u2019s just a pedal bike. Never found it. I remember being mad at God. \u201cHere I am going to seminary, how hard is it for You to bring a bike back into my driveway?\u201d I mean it\u2019s ridiculous but a minor thing like that had me questioning the goodness of God.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh guys, I mean mine is my sister led me to Jesus. She was amazing. Up every morning 4:30 in the Word, at church, raising four boys with her husband. Amazing, like she was my hero. So when she was diagnosed with cancer, lung cancer at forty-four and died five months later, I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t get it.\u201d Like there\u2019s\u2013you always think, \u201cThere will be good in it.\u201d You know you\u2019re always trying to get that silver lining, like there is not a silver lining. Man, I remember being on the floor in my bathroom and I was on my face before God. I remember making a choice and saying, \u201cGod, this makes no sense to me. I don\u2019t see how that can happen and You\u2019re still good. Like it makes no sense to me.\u201d But I remember saying, \u201cBut I will choose to follow You because I\u2019ve seen Your faithfulness and I have nowhere else to turn.\u201d But I could also see how some people could say, \u201cI\u2019m out. I\u2019m out.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I mean doesn\u2019t it seem like this is one of the biggest reasons people walk away? Is just the evil-\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2013the pain-\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> -that God allowed, a good God and powerful God allows evil. And then when it gets personal it\u2019s very easy to throw up your arms and say, \u201cI\u2019m done.\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Oh, for sure. I think that we all have if we think about it much and we\u2019re reflective. There are some things that we believe as Christians that sort of are intention, right? We think that God is in control, we have a certain amount of free will because that\u2019s what makes us morally accountable and responsible. We think that Jesus is a man, but yet He\u2019s 100 percent God. We think that God is three persons yet One Being. God is good and there\u2019s problems in the world, and we\u2019re willing to kind of keep those in the back of our mind when things are going okay, and life is good. But when heartache and hardship and suffering comes into our life, that opens up the door for those thoughts that kind of have been held at bay to come flooding through and say, \u201cYou know I\u2019ve always wondered about this anyway.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Right? What can I really trust You for, if I can\u2019t trust You for my health? I can\u2019t trust You to make sure that I always have a job. I can\u2019t trust You that my kids are going to follow You. I can\u2019t trust You that my kids aren\u2019t going to get sick. Then what does it mean that You\u2019re good? What does it mean that I can trust You for? But we only have those questions, I think when something like that enters. That can be a catalyst for sure why people end up saying, \u201cNo I don\u2019t believe in this anymore.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How\u2019d you navigate your little crisis of faith? You didn\u2019t move in with the in-laws?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> We did not move in with the in-laws, no. [Laughter] That would have been wonderful of course, but it didn\u2019t happen. I\u201dm grateful that it didn\u2019t happen.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well talk-\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2013but it is the parable of the soils. In Luke 8:13 when Jesus said, \u201cThese on the rocky soil are those who when they hear they receive the Word with joy, and these have no firm root -- they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.\u201d Every single one of us are faced with times of temptation for sure.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> And I think that in your story when you said that, \u201cI\u2019m going to trust,\u201d I think that\u2019s where we all have to get to in those times. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a trust, just a blind leap of faith.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think that it\u2019s just believing despite the counter evidence. But I do think that we can at least in the moments say, \u201cAlright, then how do I know that God is good. How do I know that He can take something that\u2019s really bad and turn it into something good?\u201d I think the answers to both of those questions is the cross. We say, \u201cLook, even though all those horrible and hard things happen, how do I explain that God sent His Son into the world to die such a terrible death on a Roman cross?\u201d The only explanation is either it didn\u2019t happen; that God is an insane glory-hound; or that He really is who He claims to be and he really loves us. I think that the third option makes the most sense.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Hmm\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> And then the cross also tells us that God can take the worst of situations, the greatest evil ever committed, and He can turn it into something incredibly good that the entire world benefits from. I think based on that foundation we can say. \u201cAlright, I don\u2019t understand. I don\u2019t know why you\u2019re doing this. I don\u2019t know how this is going to work out for good and I may never see it in my lifetime, but I can trust You because You\u2019ve demonstrated Yourself to be faithful in the past.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s the gospel.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> It is the gospel.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is interesting that every question, whatever it is, is going to be answered by a Person. It really isn\u2019t even the reliability of Scripture, although that\u2019s significant obviously, because it reveals this Person, but if Jesus didn\u2019t live, didn\u2019t die, didn\u2019t raise from the dead as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15, then we can just\u2013our faith is just in vain and we can walk away. But it does come back to that and even as a parent when our children walk through the valley of questions and doubt, that\u2019s where we\u2019ve got to end up taking them back to, is the Person of Jesus. Then the evidence there is overwhelming.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As we said earlier, to be able to talk about that and the evidence that is there, but even having that discussion, \u201cIs it true? Is the resurrection true?\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, but I\u2013here\u2019s what you, you already mentioned, that I\u2019d love to hear more thoughts on. You know it isn\u2019t always intellectual. It could be hurt.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Mmm hmm.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, a person that\u2019s been hurt by the church, by uh, the Christian community, by a Christian, by their parents, you name it. That is significant in people walking away. Talk about that.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Very significant right? It is a great example of how there\u2019s an indirect relationship here why they come to the conclusion that Christianity\u2019s not true. There\u2019s not a one-to-one relationship saying there\u2019s no evidence for your claim. It\u2019s, \u201cIf your claim was true this should be the case, and this should be the case, and this should be the case.\u201d But the opposite is the case. You people treat me worse than my friends who aren\u2019t Christians. You are judgmental. You\u2019re hypocritical. You\u2019re mean-spirited. You only care about being right.\n\nOne of the folks who I interviewed in my dissertation, her name is Lori. She\u2019s since become my friend and she has a really wonderful story, but she came from an abusive home on the east coast. In her early 20\u2019s she moved to the Pacific Northwest. She was not a Christian; she was not a believer; she had no faith in anything at all. She got invited to go to a church, started attending the church, liked it, enjoyed it, heard new things there, went to a retreat at a Bible camp outside of Seattle and committed her life to Christ.\n\nShe got involved at the church. She took on an internship, where she was doing some sort of worship leading. She was helping lead the youth group. She did this for several years. And unfortunately made a really poor choice in a gentleman who she married. She was deeply desirous of getting married, and she settled for a guy who was really bad for her. He physically abused her. He physically abused their daughter, put them both into the hospital.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> hmm\n\n<strong>John: <\/strong>When she got out, in her mind she had no other options to feed her daughter and to care for her daughter than to go back to the lifestyle that she was living on the east coast, which was being a dancer.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> hmm\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> And she went back to doing that. And then she reached out to the church that she went to and said, \u201cHey, I\u2019m in deep trouble here. Can you help us?\u201d \u201cWell, what have you been doing to make money?\u201d \u201cI\u2019m ashamed to tell you this is what I\u2019ve been doing.\u201d They said, \u201cWhat you\u2019re doing is sinful. You should be ashamed of yourself. We\u2019re ashamed of you\u2013\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ahh.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> \u2013and we will not help you and if you ever set foot on the church campus, we\u2019ll call the police because we think that you are a threat to the children here.\u201d That sent her into such a downward spiral that when she reached out to the people who she thought were representatives of Jesus, she said, \u201cIf this is what Christianity produces, it can not possibly be true, and I don\u2019t want to have anything to do with it.\u201d She subsequently left the faith.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Uhhh. I mean it\u2019s so contrary to Jesus\u2019 life. Look who He hung around. And I\u2019m not condoning her lifestyle, but the church should be the place where we open those doors. But you\u2019re saying that\u2019s one of those reasons, those emotional needs not being met is one of the reasons we can leave the church.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and it shows the power of our lives compared to anything else. It\u2019s like what we do, what we say and I\u2019m thinking even as parents, if our kids walk away our life still will speak-\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> mmm hmm\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> -no matter what they\u2019re doing or what they\u2019re thinking. How we live is what\u2019s going to draw them back, more than an argument or a piece of evidence.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Our judgmental attitudes as parents, we have to be super careful of what we\u2019re saying about the other students at our kids\u2019 schools.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember [Laughter] I remember our son; I think he was just a freshman in high school and he was talking about this boy and he\u2019d talked about him before. I said, \u201cIs that the bad kid that smokes pot?\u201d Now think about that comment. [Laughter] And my son stopped for a minute and he said, \u201cIs he bad because he smokes pot Mom? Is that what he is?\u201d Right away, I mean talk about conviction.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019d just put his identity based on what he\u2019s acting out, and I thought, \u201cNo, like that is on\u2013\u201d What a terrible thing to say. But when our kids see how judgmental we can become, even of a lifestyle we may not agree with it, but to label as \u2018what an idiot\u2019 or \u2018bad kid\u2019 or you know. Are you seeing that with college students and your own kids?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Oh yes. One of the significant factors in why children and young people retain their faith is because of the credibility enhancing displays of behavior that they see in their parents.\n\nA study came out from a gentleman whom I\u2019m acquainted with who\u2019s an atheist. And he is interested in why people become religious, why people stay religious. His conclusion is that the reason why people who are raised in Christian homes\u2013one of the big factors in them staying is because their parents engage in what he calls \u2018creds\u2019. \u2018C\u2019 for credibility, \u2018E\u2019 enhancing displays. What he means by that is when people live, it\u2019s very simple right? When people live what they believe, and if you believe something that is beautiful, and if you believe something that is compassionate, and merciful, and stands for truth, like Jesus is full of grace and He\u2019s full of truth. And if you live that way, and you're willing to even sacrifice for what you believe, that really enhances the truthfulness in the eyes of kids. One of the examples that he gives is if dad loves football, but he chooses to go to church on Sunday instead of stay home and watch football, that speaks louder than words do to the kids because they say, \u201cWell dad loves football but he\u2019s going to go to church, he\u2019s choosing it over that. Well, there must be something here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Hmm\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> It may not be consciously thought-\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>John: <\/strong>\u2013but that\u2019s the message that gets sent.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember our kids for Dave\u2019s 50th birthday. I had a surprise birthday party, and our sons were\u2013I don\u2019t remember if they were in college, but they couldn\u2019t come to this gathering I had, but they each wrote a letter. I remember every one of them saying, they\u2019re sitting under his teaching, he\u2019s their pastor. But I remember each one of them in their own way wrote something like, \u201cDad, I\u2019ve heard you preach,\u201d or whatever, \u201cbut the thing that has marked my life is your life.\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Hmm.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Like, \u201cI\u2019m watching you live out what you\u2019re preaching and that\u2019s given you so much credibility and that has helped my faith so much.\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019re right. Our kids are watching us and isn\u2019t that so scary?\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes, and a really significant other component, another relationship is having kind of these secondary influential authority figures in their life that are outside of the immediate family, right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> One of the things that I appreciate so much about the two youth leaders at our church, one is named Kyle, the other Ryan, and um my kids love them. They love them. Because Kyle and Ryan love my kids-\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> -and all the kids in the youth group, right? They take them out for lunch. They spend quality time with them. They\u2019re fully invested in their lives. When you find someone in a worldview or religion you are really drawn to, that you think is really great, that really you recognize has a love for you, you are far more inclined to hear what they have to say and want it to be true, because of your perception of who they are. And so having these other people in our lives and in our kid\u2019s lives can really go a long way to influencing people to hold onto their faith because they find it\u2019s something they actually want to be true.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, one of the things we did as young parents is we prayed for that person in our son\u2019s lives. Because we knew it wasn\u2019t just going to be us, it\u2019s actually going to be somebody that\u2019s not us that might have even more of a role in their faith journey. God provided Frank, and Ryan, and Rob for all three sons at different stages and when they walked in our house or our boys left with them it was just an answer to prayer. It was like, \u201cThank God for, for them.\u201d Because we knew. I think they had just as much impact as we did. Don\u2019t you think?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Absolutely, especially in those teen years when they weren\u2019t necessarily spending as much time with us, they were with their friends more. But that was really a gift for us.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> And one, one really significant relationship, and this will be really encouraging for some folks and maybe not so encouraging for others because not all of us have grandparents that can be there for our kids. But Vern Bankston was a professor at USC. He did a 30-year study on 1,500 families and wanted to see which ones passed on faith and which ones did not pass on faith. One of the key components of families that managed to pass on faith that endured throughout those 35 years to their children, was the relationship that children had with grandparents.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hmm\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s encouraging.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re grandparents now so-\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> - in some ways as a grandparent you think, \u201cWe\u2019re done. We don\u2019t really have the impact.\u201d But we\u2019ve heard that we can have a greater impact than even our own kids-\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> -and that\u2019s exciting.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know that\u2019s like a mission for us as grandparents.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Mmm hmm.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you one last question. If you were looking across the table at a parent that\u2019s got a teenager that says, \u201cDad, or Mom, I don\u2019t think I can believe anymore.\u201d What\u2019s the most important thing they can do in that moment?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019re listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with John Marriott on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Wow! Good question. Don\u2019t miss John\u2019s answer in just a second. But first John has actually written a book called <em>Before You Go: Uncovering Hidden Factors in Faith Loss. <\/em>You can pick up a copy of that book at FamilyLifeToday.com and dive deeper into what we\u2019ve been talking about today.\n\nAnd if you want to help more families get advice and tips, just like what you\u2019ve heard in today\u2019s conversation, would you consider partnering with us at FamilyLife Today? When you give any amount this week, we want to send you a copy of John Marriotts other book called <em>Recipe for Disaster. <\/em>It\u2019s our way of saying thanks to you when you give this week. If you\u2019d like to partner with us, again you can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can give us a call at 800, \u2018F\u2019 as in family, \u2018L\u2019 as in life and then the word TODAY. Alright, so I want to hear the answer to this question, \u201cHow do you respond to a child who says they no longer believe in Jesus?\u201d Here\u2019s John Marriott.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> The most important thing I think they can do in that moment is to say, \u201cRegardless of whether you believe or you don\u2019t believe, at the end of this journey I will always love you, you\u2019ll always be a part of our family. I will always accept you. I will always be proud of you. My love is not conditional upon you believing and affirming the same things that I believe and that I affirm. And I hope that as you go through this journey that you will invite me to be a part of it, so that we can kind of go through it together.\u201d In doing that you keep lines of communication open. You let them know you\u2019re a safe person to talk to, that they have freedom to think, which they\u2019re going to do anyway, but that they can come to you on their terms and talk about these things. I think that is the most important thing that we can do in that moment.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> With all the new generation\u2019s angles on what it means to be quote unquote \u2018spiritual\u2019 it\u2019s easy to be worried for your kids, right? I know it\u2019s easy for me to do that with my kids. Well tomorrow Dave and Ann talk with John Marriott once again who personally went through numerous studies to relay what families can do better to keep their kids faithful. I know you\u2019ll want to tune in for that one.\n\n<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. 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