{"id":307658,"date":"2022-12-27T11:15:00","date_gmt":"2022-12-27T16:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia-2\/"},"modified":"2022-12-27T11:15:00","modified_gmt":"2022-12-27T16:15:00","slug":"whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia-2\/","title":{"rendered":"What&#8217;s the Purpose of My Pain? Noe Garcia"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Ever wondered, \u201cHow can God use the mess of my life?\u201d Author Noe Garcia shares his own rock-bottom story, and helps you seek the purpose of your pain.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<br \/>\nReceive four copies (three to give away!) of the book &#8220;The Four Emotions of Christmas&#8221; and a set of greeting cards for your donation of any amount! And now through a special matching opportunity, your gift will be DOUBLED, dollar for dollar:\u00a0https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/build-godly-marriages<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ever wondered, How can God use the mess of my life? Author Noe Garcia shares his own rock-bottom story, and helps you seek the purpose of your pain.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-12-27.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:19","filesize":"46.37M","filesize_raw":"48626954","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846,2822],"tags":[2429],"podcast_series":[8589],"cwp_profile":[9826],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307658","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-purpose-of-pain","podcast_series-whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia","cwp_profile-noe-garcia","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307658\/whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307658\/whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"uLH7v4J0lW\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia-2\/\">What&#8217;s the Purpose of My Pain? Noe Garcia<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-the-purpose-of-my-pain-noe-garcia-2\/embed\/#?secret=uLH7v4J0lW\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What&#8217;s the Purpose of My Pain? Noe Garcia&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"uLH7v4J0lW\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-12-27.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-12-27.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> If I don\u2019t take my thoughts captive, they will take <em>me<\/em> captive; and I will become a prisoner to my thoughts. It\u2019s like the enemy can whisper one thing\u2014and if I\u2019m not careful\u2014I will take the one word and write a novel out of it.\n\nLet\u2019s say I lose my temper with my kids, and I\u2019m telling myself, \u201cYou\u2019re just like your father.\u201d Now, I can take this, and write a novel, and make it true; or I can take the thought captive, bring it before God; and if it doesn\u2019t hold up in His court, I have to fight to <em>dismiss<\/em> it.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We went to a counselor last year. [Laughter] Let\u2019s just tell the world about that moment.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Actually, I did, as I was going through succession in my church. I really needed to sit down and work through some things; but then, this guy was so good\u2014Greg Dempster\u2014and he works with Christian leaders all around the country. I said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to get Ann; we\u2019ve got to bring her back!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbecause she\u2019s super messed-up!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No! I just thought, Ann, your wisdom and insight\u2014we need help for our marriage\u2014and one of the things that Greg drew out\u2014that I <em>knew<\/em>, but never really put my finger on\u2014was how you felt unseen, almost all of your life, especially in your family.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and I mean, I have a great family; my dad was great. But I also knew, as the youngest of four, I felt very unseen\/unnoticed, like my life didn\u2019t matter. And then, you put sexual abuse on top of that\u2014and you put not being able to measure up to the standards of the family in performance\u2014and now, you\u2019ve got a problem. I did; I had a problem, because I was filled with shame. I felt like: \u201cDo I not matter?\u201d \u201cDoes my life not matter?\u201d \u201cWill I ever be good enough?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and one of the things that hit me in that moment with Greg was, on our ten-year anniversary, when you said, \u201cI\u2019ve lost my feelings for you,\u201d you felt unseen by <em>me<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; because I felt like <em>everything<\/em> else was more important to you than me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and so I think this shame that you just mentioned\u2014that you carry; I carry; and I think a lot of us carry\u2014is something we need to understand and get victory over.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because, Dave, I don\u2019t think a lot of us know, when we\u2019re growing up\u2014everything feels so <em>normal<\/em>: \u201cIt\u2019s my life,\u201d\u2014it doesn\u2019t feel like it\u2019s broken; it feels like: \u201cThis is just my life!\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And so, then, you get older, and you <em>see<\/em> your brokenness; you see how you\u2019re messed up. Suddenly, you\u2019re starting to think, \u201cWhere did that come from?\u201d That shame piece\u2014that I think a lot of us feel and we carry\u2014we don\u2019t know what to do with it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and we carry it into our marriages.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> if we don\u2019t do something with it, we\u2019re going to give it to our kids; and it\u2019s going to become a legacy.\n\nWe\u2019ve got some help in the studio with us today\u2014Noe Garcia, who was with us yesterday, is back to talk about\u2014you didn\u2019t know this: you\u2019re going to talk about shame today.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Oh, I love it! [Laughter] Sounds good; let\u2019s do it!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re a pastor in Phoenix; you\u2019ve got four kids and a wife, and a busy life. As you wrote in your book, <em>Repurposed: How God Takes Your Mess and Turns It into His Message<\/em>\u2014as I was listening to you yesterday\u2014you described a life, where you carried shame.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what is that? And how did it manifest in your life?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> You know, the thing about shame is: it just paralyzes you. It makes you focus on the past. You\u2019re <em>stuck <\/em>in the present, because you\u2019re so focused on the past; and it blinds you to the future.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, how would you define it?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Man, I would define shame as this overwhelming emotional state that puts you in a position to where you are living in this false narrative. Here\u2019s what I mean by that: I don\u2019t mean the experiences were not real, but I mean it puts you in this emotional state\u2014this paralyzing state\u2014where you\u2019re continuing to feed yourself these lies:\n<ul>\n \t<li>You\u2019re continuing to be stuck to what <em>is<\/em> true, but you tell yourself you can never get out;<\/li>\n \t<li>You tell yourself it can never change;<\/li>\n \t<li>You tell yourself nobody will understand and accept it.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nYou stay in this state, and shame <em>lies<\/em> to you. It tells you: \u201cGod can never forgive you,\u201d \u201cGod can never use you.\u201d Shame tells you that other people will never understand; they\u2019ll judge you and look at you differently. It paralyzes you.\n\nI think it\u2019s produced from, really, traumatic circumstances\u2014whether it\u2019s decisions that we have made or things that have been done to us\u2014it\u2019s <em>both<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I can remember, as a five-year-old, going through sexual abuse; and it happening, again, to someone that I knew. As a five-year-old, after it happened multiple times, and this last time, I remember thinking, \u201cSomething\u2019s wrong with <em>me.<\/em>\u201d And that was the switch. That\u2019s what I think shame is: \u201cSuddenly, it feels like, \u2018There\u2019s something wrong with <em>me<\/em>.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It isn\u2019t: \u201cI did something bad,\u201d\/[it\u2019s:] \u201cI <em>am<\/em> bad.\u201d\n\nYou mentioned yesterday, as you came out of the home of abuse\u2014you were abused; you were in drugs and alcohol\u2014at the same time, you know, thriving on a basketball court as a way out. But you described, yesterday, that you got to the point, where the shame you were carrying\u2014which was somewhat hidden\u2014put you in a place, where you almost tried to take your life.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes; you know, for me, when you\u2019re sexually abused, your soul is <em>shattered<\/em>. It doesn\u2019t know how to deal with that; you\u2019re covered with shame. You feel like you\u2019ve done something wrong, or you have done something that has brought that on yourself: \u201cWhat did I do that opened the door for that?\u201d\n\nThen, you start living with these emotions, and you start feeling like, \u201cOkay; there\u2019s this shame on me, because of what took place. How do I suppress that feeling of shame?\u201d Here\u2019s what I did: drugs, alcohol, immorality\u2014thinking that that would suppress the feeling of what took place when I was a child\u2014but it only brought more shame.\n\nNow, I was disgusted with myself ,and embarrassed, and shame-filled for what had been done to me;, but then, what I had done to try to cover it up. I can tell myself: \u201cMaybe this wasn\u2019t my fault.\u201d The other: \u201cI did this\u2014I made these decisions\u2014I\u2019m horrible; I\u2019m disgusting; I\u2019m filthy.\u201d\n\nYou feel this, and you feel like you\u2019re drowning. You feel like nobody will ever forgive you. You feel like, if you say these things out loud, people may look at you differently; they\u2019ll treat you differently. It changes your path of life, so you don\u2019t say anything.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you fall into depression?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I fell so deep into depression. You know, if you\u2019ve ever dealt with depression, you just begin to live in this false world, where everything is negative\/everything is bad: every thought, every circumstance. And then, if you do have a moment that is a mountain top moment, you\u2019re afraid to enjoy what\u2019s good; because you don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to be there long. You wire yourself <em>not <\/em>to get attached to the good things; \u201cBecause good things don\u2019t last,\u201d is what I thought. When you\u2019d have these good moments: \u201cDon\u2019t get used to this; this is not real life. This joy\/this happiness is abnormal. Brokenness is normal, so don\u2019t get used to the joy and happiness; because brokenness is where you\u2019re used to living.\u201d\n\nI taught myself and trained myself how to not get too attached to good things. [In] relationships, I would push people away before they got too close; because I didn\u2019t want to get hurt again. Everyone I let in, hurt me; so I taught myself to put people through trial runs: \u201cLet me see how long they\u2019ll stay. Oh, they\u2019ve stayed this long? Let me show them another piece of me; see if they\u2019ll go!\u201d\n\nI began to unfold it: \u201cOh, you\u2019re going to stay? Let me show you some <em>uglier<\/em> stuff to see how long you\u2019ll stay.\u201d It\u2019s like it\u2019s so <em>messed up, <\/em>but I did that. And then, when they\u2019d stay long enough, I thought, \u201cUh-oh! They love me, and I love them. How do I break this off? Is it too late? What am I going to do now?\u201d I would burn the bridge; I would destroy the relationship so that I had the power to destroy it before they destroyed me.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then, you got to the point, where you thought, \u201cI don\u2019t even want to do this anymore.\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes; and so\u2014from five to eighteen\u2014you live your life like that. You\u2019re tired of the broken relationships; you\u2019re tired of the shame; you\u2019re tired of being guilty. And I was guilty. The shame has you running when nobody is chasing; it has you hiding when nobody is looking for you. And I got tired of running, and I got tired of hiding.\n\nOne night, I remember sitting there, not knowing if there was a God\u2014but if there was\u2014asking Him, \u201cPlease, my soul is empty,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m tired,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m broken.\u201d And I\u2019m eighteen! I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m tired of life. I\u2019m tired of pain. I\u2019m tired of not having a father,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s no affirmation; there\u2019s no security; there\u2019s nothing. And I asked Him for a sign. He doesn\u2019t give me a sign, so I sit there and start crying.\n\nI thought, \u201cIf God doesn\u2019t want me or love me, I have no chance in life. There\u2019s no chance if God doesn\u2019t want me.\u201d I thought He didn\u2019t want me. I thought He was like my earthly father, who had just walked out and didn\u2019t even come back. I thought, \u201cIf God doesn\u2019t want me, if my earthly father doesn\u2019t want me\u2014if there are all these broken relationships\u2014what\u2019s the point of living through this?\u201d\n\nBut thankfully, I didn\u2019t succeed. I thought I locked the door; but my friend came in and found me. He was like, \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d I said, \u201cI don\u2019t know\u201d; and I just started crying. I sat there, and I knew something had to change. I\u2019d hit rock-bottom; I was so <em>desperate<\/em>. My soul was so hungry, and I didn\u2019t know how to feed it.\n\nAt this point, I\u2019m playing basketball at the Salvation Army. For about two years, when I\u2019d go play basketball, they\u2019d make you stay for a devotion. I would always make fun of the Christian guys speaking; I just thought they were <em>so cheesy<\/em>; it was the <em>same<\/em> story. \u201cThat\u2019s great for you, but it doesn\u2019t match who I am!\u201d\n\nAnd then, a guy stands up, just got out of prison! [Laughter] Tattoos\u2014I have tattoos!\u2014and I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, you know God?! How do <em>you <\/em>know God?\u201d And so I <em>listened<\/em>. He was sharing about this Jesus, who would forgive you of your sins, and who would\u2014he has my <em>full attention <\/em>because of the way he\/\u201dHe looks like me!\u201d\n\nI\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay, if this is real, I want some of this then; because I know what I just tried to do, and it didn\u2019t work!\u201d I get up during the invitation, and say, \u201cI don\u2019t know if You\u2019re real, but if You are, will You forgive me of my sins? Would You take my life, because I can\u2019t do anything with it.\u201d I surrendered, and I confessed.\n\nAnd let me tell you what happened: it\u2019s like I came, out of living in the dark, out into the light. The things that I cultivated in the dark began to have so much power over my life, because\u2014I didn\u2019t know it then\u2014but that\u2019s where the enemy has his battles, is in the dark.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s an interesting way that you put that: the things you were <em>cultivating<\/em> in the darkness.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean by that?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Well, I gave it life\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, by feeding it.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014by feeding it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I gave it life by feeding into this lie\u2014whether it was in thoughts or in action\u2014I cultivated it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> And it was so <em>powerful<\/em>, and it was so <em>strong<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, and it feels <em>right<\/em> to do it.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Oh, it feels normal. You don\u2019t know you\u2019re doing it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It feels normal. The enemy\u2019s having a field day; he\u2019s producing this fruit out of it. He planted the seeds, and I\u2019m watering it; and the fruit\u2019s being produced. But that\u2019s where he fights: is in the dark.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> When I came out into the light, it was like it lost its <em>power<\/em>. All these things that had shame over my life no longer had this power over me. It\u2019s like, \u201cYou lost. Here I am, fully forgiven. And yes, that\u2019s my reality\u2014yes, I\u2019m ashamed\u2014\u2018But God, being rich in mercy\u2026\u2019\u2014you know, here I am!\u201d\n\nThis is why, even today\/you know, I didn\u2019t start speaking to me being molested until I wrote the book.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Until a year ago, this was all pretty silent?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t tell a lot of stuff.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>Why<\/em> did you decide to start telling it?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Here\u2019s why I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em>: I didn\u2019t hear anybody else talking about it. I had <em>never <\/em>heard a pastor talking about this, <em>ever<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I think, unintentionally, I was groomed to believe: \u201cYou don\u2019t share stuff like that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s not okay.\u201d I still lived in the dark, although I was free in that area of my life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So Noe, here you are now: you\u2019re a new creature in Christ; old things have passed; new things have come.\n\nAnd that happened to me, and I was thinking, \u201cNow, I am a new creature,\u201d and yet, after a while, I was still battling those same thoughts. I didn\u2019t realize, because I had cultivated them for years. I probably had neurological pathways that were deep, man! [Laughter] You know, I\u2019d just go on that path every day. I was still feeding myself these lies of: \u201cYou\u2019re nothing,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re no good,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not worthy,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019ll never succeed,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019ll never do anything worthwhile.\u201d Then, I remember reading Romans 12:2: \u201cDo not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d\n\nHow did that work out for you?\u2014did it change overnight?\u2014or was it a process?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>still<\/em> a process.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; me too.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I <em>know<\/em> these truths; I preach them every Sunday. [Laughter] But I also know that we\u2019re broken people, and that we live in our flesh, and that we have to still deal with the scars of yesterday.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How do we break free? Because, largely, your book\u2019s based on Romans 8, verse 1\u2014one of the most famous\/powerful\u2014\u201cThere\u2019s <em>no condemnation <\/em>for those of us who are in Christ.\u201d If that\u2019s true\u2014and you just said it\/we just said it\u2014then, <em>how <\/em>do we get stuck <em>not<\/em> living a free life?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what happens\u2014and it happens to all of us\u2014when you become a new creature in Christ, there\u2019s still the renewing of your mind. What happens is: when I have moments of\u2014say I lose my temper with my kids, and it reminds me of my father\u2014the enemy will tell me, even day, \u201cSee, you\u2019re not really different. Look at you; you\u2019re just like your father,\u201d\u2014<em>even today!<\/em>\n\nThen, the shame will overwhelm me; I have to battle: \u201cAm I different?\u201d \u201cAm I changed?\u201d That\u2019s what happens today. Let me share this: Romans chapter 8, verse 1: \u201cTherefore, there is <em>now <\/em>no condemnation for those that are in Christ.\u201d The word, \u201ccondemnation,\u201d is a legal term; okay? So picture us in court: your crime is brought before the judge. The judge is saying, \u201cHe is dismissed; he is forgiven\u201d; bang the gavel.\n\nThat term there is saying: \u201cNow\/today, your yesterday, today, and tomorrow are forgiven,\u201d\u2014which means the crime that you commit tomorrow doesn\u2019t have any power before the judge anymore because of what Christ has done. Here\u2019s what happens: when I sin, I have to retrain my thought by doing this\u2014by taking my thoughts captive\u2014if I don\u2019t take my thoughts captive, they will take <em>me<\/em> captive; and I will become a prisoner to my thoughts. It\u2019s like the enemy can whisper one thing\u2014and if I\u2019m not careful\u2014I will take the one word, and write a novel out of it of how I\u2019m horrible.\n\nI take this one word\u2014let\u2019s say I lose my temper with my kids, and I\u2019m telling myself, \u201cYou\u2019re just like your father,\u201d\u2014now, I can take this, and write a novel, and make it true; or I can take this before the courts of heaven, and ask, \u201cIs this a true statement?\u201d I take the thought captive\u2014bring it before God\u2014and if it doesn\u2019t hold up in His court, I have to fight to dismiss it. That takes a lot of work!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was going to say\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That takes intentionality.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that sounds <em>exhausting<\/em>; because we said yesterday,\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014<em>exhausting! <\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014we have <em>thousands <\/em>of thoughts a day\u2014much of them negative\u2014and you\u2019ve got to grab every one and take it captive.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s exhausting, but the novel that we will write with the lies is <em>devastating<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> So we have to pick.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I found that I would have those thoughts at night, when I put my head on the pillow\u2014you, Dave, you go right to sleep!\u2014[Laughter]\u2014I was like, \u201cHow does he do that?\u201d\n\nI would lay in bed at night and just go, over and over, my failures of that day. I will say this: the enemy\/the accuser would go over those stories each day.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I got into this habit of taking\u2014because it\u2019s such a lie! It doesn\u2019t do any good to go over what you\u2019ve\u2014you can confess it: \u201cJesus, I give it to You. I confess it; I\u2019m free!\u201d I picture myself handing the lie that I was believing\u2014or maybe the sin I had committed: \u201cIt\u2019s forgiven,\u201d\u2014so I would <em>hand<\/em> it to Him. Then, I could fall asleep at night.\n\nIt's <em>hard<\/em>, though, not to entertain the lies.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s hard; it\u2019s hard.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really hard.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> And this is what the enemy\u2019s been doing since Genesis 3\u2014the Fall in the garden\u2014what took place was they changed what they thought about God and what they thought about themselves. It\u2019s why they <em>hid<\/em>, because they were filled with <em>shame<\/em>. They were hiding from God.\n\nWhen we sin, what do we think?\u2014\u201cOh, man! How does He view me? Does He still love me? Is He going to use me?\u201d Then we view ourselves differently: \u201cWe\u2019re horrible,\u201d \u201cWe are defined by our failures,\u201d right? And it\u2019s just this ongoing battle, and it\u2019s a lifelong battle. I don\u2019t think it ever stops. I think we get better at the battle, but I don\u2019t think it ever stops.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, are you living in victory now?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> There are days when I\u2019m <em>not<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Man, there are days, where\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You are way too honest. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, you\u2019re not! I love it!!\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Gosh.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m kidding! I love that, because like you, so often the church and the Christian community just hides.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Like Genesis 3, we put on the leaves; we hide. It\u2019s <em>rare<\/em> that somebody brings the darkness to the light, and the light sets you free!\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It does.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you bring it out into the light, you become free. That\u2019s why I <em>love<\/em> you being that honest.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I\u2019m a professional confessor. [Laughter] Honestly, there are people who, you know, if I ever go see a counselor, they\u2019ll say, \u201cIs there anything that you\u2019ve never told anybody?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo! I can\u2019t live that way, man. No! I\u2019m getting it alllll out,\u201d\u2014probably, too much at times, but I just want to be <em>free<\/em>! I don\u2019t want to have any secrets or dirty hands. I want to be free\u2014not perfect\u2014but free!\n\nAnd so, I still have tough days; I\u2019ve got to be honest. If I have a bad day\u2014and I sin in my anger or whatever it may be\u2014man! I\u2019m shaming myself the rest of that day. I wish I could tell you, \u201cNo, every day victory!\u201d But I\u2019m <em>not<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember the day I\u2014the first year of our church: 1990; so it\u2019s 30-some years ago\u2014where I shared, from the pulpit, my struggle with pornography. I remember my co-pastor, Steve, came over and said, \u201cYou just changed this church.\u201d I thought it was bad, like, \u201cOh, did I just lose my job?!\u201d\u2014you know, especially then. He says, \u201cNo, I think you just turned this church into a place, where people will bring their full selves\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\"and say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to be real here.\u2019\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019Will I find acceptance here?\u2019 \u2018Is there victory in Christ here, in the middle of the struggle?\u2019\u201d That\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about, right?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent! This scares churches, and it scared our church. I\u2019m not asking to lower the standard of holiness.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I\u2019m talking about opening the window of grace; because for so long, we had this standard of holiness without this window of grace. But when you open the window of grace, I think it\u2019s easier to pursue the standard of holiness. That\u2019s what I\u2019m trying to do. By me being vulnerable and transparent, I want to help people to know that we <em>are <\/em>imperfect beings, but it doesn\u2019t stop our pursuit of holiness. It\u2019s not one or the other; it can be both.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019re listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Noe Garcia. If you\u2019ve ever been tempted to buy some anti-aging cream, well, stick around! Dave and Ann and Noe have something that\u2019s <em>even<\/em> better. But first, Noe\u2019s book is called <em>Repurposed: How God Turns Your Mess into His Message. <\/em>You can get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com; just click on \u201cToday\u2019s Resources\u201d to find it. Or you can call us at 800-358-6329; that\u2019s 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, earlier today, I was going through some of the reviews of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>I was super-encouraged to read a couple of the messages that have been posted there:\n\n\uf0b7\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 One person said, \u201cThis show has been a blessing to me and my family.\u201d\n\n\uf0b7\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Another person said, \u201cGreat content; great guests; and engaging interviews. This is consistently valuable.\u201d\n\n\uf0b7\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And one other said, \u201cDave and Ann Wilson are so genuine and wise. They have a wide range of guests with different experiences and areas of expertise. I\u2019m super-grateful to have found this podcast. Keep them coming.\u201d\n\nAnd we will keep them coming. Thank you so much for writing those reviews.\n\nYou know, it\u2019s people just like you, who help to make this program possible. And thanks to some generous Ministry Partners, if you give a gift anytime this month, it will be matched, dollar for dollar, until we hit $2.3 million. That\u2019s for a one-time gift; or if you become a monthly Partner, right now, your monthly gifts will be doubled for the next\n\n12 months! Again, you can give today at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; that\u2019s 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAlright, here are Dave and Ann with Noe Garcia.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think one of the things we\u2019re talking about is: \u201cIf you hold onto the secrets and the struggle\u2014and it\u2019s just a hidden secret\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, they\u2019re in the dark.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\"the shame stays.\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Whew!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> First of all, you confess it to God\u2014you find forgiveness\u2014but when you tell a brother or you tell a sister, James 5 says <em>healing<\/em>\u00a0 is where that happens. I think that involves shame.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because then, we can do work on the shame. As long as it\u2019s hidden, it\u2019s in the dark; and the dark wins. Once it comes into the light\u2014am I right?\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> God\u2019s like, \u201cI can now take this and <em>remove<\/em> the shame,\u201d\u2014not instantaneously\u2014\"but I can put you on a path to healing, where you\u2019re going to find freedom.\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s Psalm 32; David says it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> You know, when he kept silent, it says that he felt like \u201cGod\u2019s hand was heavy upon\u201d him. He felt like his body was withering away, day and night. He was miserable! But when he confessed it to the Lord, he found this freedom; he found his refuge!\n\nAbsolutely, it wears you\u2014I believe shame and secrets will wear you down; it\u2019ll tear you down; it will age you!\u2014you will be <em>exhausted<\/em>! So man, I pray for my kids all the time\/I pray that, if they have any secrets in their lives, they can\u2019t sleep or eat until they confess it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes, we prayed that prayer a lot.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s my prayer <em>all<\/em> the time; I pray it over my church too.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Because I know that the enemy wants to take you somewhere with this stuff; so if you get it out into the light, he loses the battle.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The word for today is\u2014here it is\u2014\u201cTake off the mask.\u201d I\u2019m not talking about the pandemic mask\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you\u2019ve got to keep wearing that; maybe that\u2019s the safe thing to do\u2014I\u2019m talking about the fake mask\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014of hiding your struggle. Tell God\u2014tell a brother if you\u2019re a man; tell a sister if you\u2019re a woman; tell a couple if you\u2019re a couple\u2014and let God begin the healing process. I mean, that\u2019s a beautiful story that you\u2019ve shared; that\u2019s the result.\n\nToday\u2019s <em>your<\/em> day to start.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> What if you were going through a crisis while you were struggling with the loss of someone close to you? That might make you angry with God. But what if that happened while you were pastoring a church plant? On <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>Dave and Ann Wilson are joined tomorrow by John Onwuchekwa, who explains the uproar this caused in his life; and how he dealt with the grief, the pain, and, frankly, the liar he became. That\u2019s tomorrow.\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776557012;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Ever wondered, How can God use the mess of my life? Author Noe Garcia shares his own rock-bottom story, and helps you seek the purpose of your pain.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-12-27.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> If I don\u2019t take my thoughts captive, they will take <em>me<\/em> captive; and I will become a prisoner to my thoughts. It\u2019s like the enemy can whisper one thing\u2014and if I\u2019m not careful\u2014I will take the one word and write a novel out of it.\n\nLet\u2019s say I lose my temper with my kids, and I\u2019m telling myself, \u201cYou\u2019re just like your father.\u201d Now, I can take this, and write a novel, and make it true; or I can take the thought captive, bring it before God; and if it doesn\u2019t hold up in His court, I have to fight to <em>dismiss<\/em> it.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We went to a counselor last year. [Laughter] Let\u2019s just tell the world about that moment.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Actually, I did, as I was going through succession in my church. I really needed to sit down and work through some things; but then, this guy was so good\u2014Greg Dempster\u2014and he works with Christian leaders all around the country. I said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to get Ann; we\u2019ve got to bring her back!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbecause she\u2019s super messed-up!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No! I just thought, Ann, your wisdom and insight\u2014we need help for our marriage\u2014and one of the things that Greg drew out\u2014that I <em>knew<\/em>, but never really put my finger on\u2014was how you felt unseen, almost all of your life, especially in your family.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and I mean, I have a great family; my dad was great. But I also knew, as the youngest of four, I felt very unseen\/unnoticed, like my life didn\u2019t matter. And then, you put sexual abuse on top of that\u2014and you put not being able to measure up to the standards of the family in performance\u2014and now, you\u2019ve got a problem. I did; I had a problem, because I was filled with shame. I felt like: \u201cDo I not matter?\u201d \u201cDoes my life not matter?\u201d \u201cWill I ever be good enough?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and one of the things that hit me in that moment with Greg was, on our ten-year anniversary, when you said, \u201cI\u2019ve lost my feelings for you,\u201d you felt unseen by <em>me<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; because I felt like <em>everything<\/em> else was more important to you than me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and so I think this shame that you just mentioned\u2014that you carry; I carry; and I think a lot of us carry\u2014is something we need to understand and get victory over.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because, Dave, I don\u2019t think a lot of us know, when we\u2019re growing up\u2014everything feels so <em>normal<\/em>: \u201cIt\u2019s my life,\u201d\u2014it doesn\u2019t feel like it\u2019s broken; it feels like: \u201cThis is just my life!\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And so, then, you get older, and you <em>see<\/em> your brokenness; you see how you\u2019re messed up. Suddenly, you\u2019re starting to think, \u201cWhere did that come from?\u201d That shame piece\u2014that I think a lot of us feel and we carry\u2014we don\u2019t know what to do with it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and we carry it into our marriages.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> if we don\u2019t do something with it, we\u2019re going to give it to our kids; and it\u2019s going to become a legacy.\n\nWe\u2019ve got some help in the studio with us today\u2014Noe Garcia, who was with us yesterday, is back to talk about\u2014you didn\u2019t know this: you\u2019re going to talk about shame today.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Oh, I love it! [Laughter] Sounds good; let\u2019s do it!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re a pastor in Phoenix; you\u2019ve got four kids and a wife, and a busy life. As you wrote in your book, <em>Repurposed: How God Takes Your Mess and Turns It into His Message<\/em>\u2014as I was listening to you yesterday\u2014you described a life, where you carried shame.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what is that? And how did it manifest in your life?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> You know, the thing about shame is: it just paralyzes you. It makes you focus on the past. You\u2019re <em>stuck <\/em>in the present, because you\u2019re so focused on the past; and it blinds you to the future.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, how would you define it?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Man, I would define shame as this overwhelming emotional state that puts you in a position to where you are living in this false narrative. Here\u2019s what I mean by that: I don\u2019t mean the experiences were not real, but I mean it puts you in this emotional state\u2014this paralyzing state\u2014where you\u2019re continuing to feed yourself these lies:\n<ul>\n \t<li>You\u2019re continuing to be stuck to what <em>is<\/em> true, but you tell yourself you can never get out;<\/li>\n \t<li>You tell yourself it can never change;<\/li>\n \t<li>You tell yourself nobody will understand and accept it.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nYou stay in this state, and shame <em>lies<\/em> to you. It tells you: \u201cGod can never forgive you,\u201d \u201cGod can never use you.\u201d Shame tells you that other people will never understand; they\u2019ll judge you and look at you differently. It paralyzes you.\n\nI think it\u2019s produced from, really, traumatic circumstances\u2014whether it\u2019s decisions that we have made or things that have been done to us\u2014it\u2019s <em>both<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I can remember, as a five-year-old, going through sexual abuse; and it happening, again, to someone that I knew. As a five-year-old, after it happened multiple times, and this last time, I remember thinking, \u201cSomething\u2019s wrong with <em>me.<\/em>\u201d And that was the switch. That\u2019s what I think shame is: \u201cSuddenly, it feels like, \u2018There\u2019s something wrong with <em>me<\/em>.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It isn\u2019t: \u201cI did something bad,\u201d\/[it\u2019s:] \u201cI <em>am<\/em> bad.\u201d\n\nYou mentioned yesterday, as you came out of the home of abuse\u2014you were abused; you were in drugs and alcohol\u2014at the same time, you know, thriving on a basketball court as a way out. But you described, yesterday, that you got to the point, where the shame you were carrying\u2014which was somewhat hidden\u2014put you in a place, where you almost tried to take your life.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes; you know, for me, when you\u2019re sexually abused, your soul is <em>shattered<\/em>. It doesn\u2019t know how to deal with that; you\u2019re covered with shame. You feel like you\u2019ve done something wrong, or you have done something that has brought that on yourself: \u201cWhat did I do that opened the door for that?\u201d\n\nThen, you start living with these emotions, and you start feeling like, \u201cOkay; there\u2019s this shame on me, because of what took place. How do I suppress that feeling of shame?\u201d Here\u2019s what I did: drugs, alcohol, immorality\u2014thinking that that would suppress the feeling of what took place when I was a child\u2014but it only brought more shame.\n\nNow, I was disgusted with myself ,and embarrassed, and shame-filled for what had been done to me;, but then, what I had done to try to cover it up. I can tell myself: \u201cMaybe this wasn\u2019t my fault.\u201d The other: \u201cI did this\u2014I made these decisions\u2014I\u2019m horrible; I\u2019m disgusting; I\u2019m filthy.\u201d\n\nYou feel this, and you feel like you\u2019re drowning. You feel like nobody will ever forgive you. You feel like, if you say these things out loud, people may look at you differently; they\u2019ll treat you differently. It changes your path of life, so you don\u2019t say anything.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you fall into depression?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I fell so deep into depression. You know, if you\u2019ve ever dealt with depression, you just begin to live in this false world, where everything is negative\/everything is bad: every thought, every circumstance. And then, if you do have a moment that is a mountain top moment, you\u2019re afraid to enjoy what\u2019s good; because you don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to be there long. You wire yourself <em>not <\/em>to get attached to the good things; \u201cBecause good things don\u2019t last,\u201d is what I thought. When you\u2019d have these good moments: \u201cDon\u2019t get used to this; this is not real life. This joy\/this happiness is abnormal. Brokenness is normal, so don\u2019t get used to the joy and happiness; because brokenness is where you\u2019re used to living.\u201d\n\nI taught myself and trained myself how to not get too attached to good things. [In] relationships, I would push people away before they got too close; because I didn\u2019t want to get hurt again. Everyone I let in, hurt me; so I taught myself to put people through trial runs: \u201cLet me see how long they\u2019ll stay. Oh, they\u2019ve stayed this long? Let me show them another piece of me; see if they\u2019ll go!\u201d\n\nI began to unfold it: \u201cOh, you\u2019re going to stay? Let me show you some <em>uglier<\/em> stuff to see how long you\u2019ll stay.\u201d It\u2019s like it\u2019s so <em>messed up, <\/em>but I did that. And then, when they\u2019d stay long enough, I thought, \u201cUh-oh! They love me, and I love them. How do I break this off? Is it too late? What am I going to do now?\u201d I would burn the bridge; I would destroy the relationship so that I had the power to destroy it before they destroyed me.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then, you got to the point, where you thought, \u201cI don\u2019t even want to do this anymore.\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes; and so\u2014from five to eighteen\u2014you live your life like that. You\u2019re tired of the broken relationships; you\u2019re tired of the shame; you\u2019re tired of being guilty. And I was guilty. The shame has you running when nobody is chasing; it has you hiding when nobody is looking for you. And I got tired of running, and I got tired of hiding.\n\nOne night, I remember sitting there, not knowing if there was a God\u2014but if there was\u2014asking Him, \u201cPlease, my soul is empty,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m tired,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m broken.\u201d And I\u2019m eighteen! I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m tired of life. I\u2019m tired of pain. I\u2019m tired of not having a father,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s no affirmation; there\u2019s no security; there\u2019s nothing. And I asked Him for a sign. He doesn\u2019t give me a sign, so I sit there and start crying.\n\nI thought, \u201cIf God doesn\u2019t want me or love me, I have no chance in life. There\u2019s no chance if God doesn\u2019t want me.\u201d I thought He didn\u2019t want me. I thought He was like my earthly father, who had just walked out and didn\u2019t even come back. I thought, \u201cIf God doesn\u2019t want me, if my earthly father doesn\u2019t want me\u2014if there are all these broken relationships\u2014what\u2019s the point of living through this?\u201d\n\nBut thankfully, I didn\u2019t succeed. I thought I locked the door; but my friend came in and found me. He was like, \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d I said, \u201cI don\u2019t know\u201d; and I just started crying. I sat there, and I knew something had to change. I\u2019d hit rock-bottom; I was so <em>desperate<\/em>. My soul was so hungry, and I didn\u2019t know how to feed it.\n\nAt this point, I\u2019m playing basketball at the Salvation Army. For about two years, when I\u2019d go play basketball, they\u2019d make you stay for a devotion. I would always make fun of the Christian guys speaking; I just thought they were <em>so cheesy<\/em>; it was the <em>same<\/em> story. \u201cThat\u2019s great for you, but it doesn\u2019t match who I am!\u201d\n\nAnd then, a guy stands up, just got out of prison! [Laughter] Tattoos\u2014I have tattoos!\u2014and I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, you know God?! How do <em>you <\/em>know God?\u201d And so I <em>listened<\/em>. He was sharing about this Jesus, who would forgive you of your sins, and who would\u2014he has my <em>full attention <\/em>because of the way he\/\u201dHe looks like me!\u201d\n\nI\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay, if this is real, I want some of this then; because I know what I just tried to do, and it didn\u2019t work!\u201d I get up during the invitation, and say, \u201cI don\u2019t know if You\u2019re real, but if You are, will You forgive me of my sins? Would You take my life, because I can\u2019t do anything with it.\u201d I surrendered, and I confessed.\n\nAnd let me tell you what happened: it\u2019s like I came, out of living in the dark, out into the light. The things that I cultivated in the dark began to have so much power over my life, because\u2014I didn\u2019t know it then\u2014but that\u2019s where the enemy has his battles, is in the dark.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s an interesting way that you put that: the things you were <em>cultivating<\/em> in the darkness.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean by that?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Well, I gave it life\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, by feeding it.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014by feeding it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I gave it life by feeding into this lie\u2014whether it was in thoughts or in action\u2014I cultivated it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> And it was so <em>powerful<\/em>, and it was so <em>strong<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, and it feels <em>right<\/em> to do it.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Oh, it feels normal. You don\u2019t know you\u2019re doing it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It feels normal. The enemy\u2019s having a field day; he\u2019s producing this fruit out of it. He planted the seeds, and I\u2019m watering it; and the fruit\u2019s being produced. But that\u2019s where he fights: is in the dark.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> When I came out into the light, it was like it lost its <em>power<\/em>. All these things that had shame over my life no longer had this power over me. It\u2019s like, \u201cYou lost. Here I am, fully forgiven. And yes, that\u2019s my reality\u2014yes, I\u2019m ashamed\u2014\u2018But God, being rich in mercy\u2026\u2019\u2014you know, here I am!\u201d\n\nThis is why, even today\/you know, I didn\u2019t start speaking to me being molested until I wrote the book.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Until a year ago, this was all pretty silent?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t tell a lot of stuff.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>Why<\/em> did you decide to start telling it?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Here\u2019s why I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em>: I didn\u2019t hear anybody else talking about it. I had <em>never <\/em>heard a pastor talking about this, <em>ever<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I think, unintentionally, I was groomed to believe: \u201cYou don\u2019t share stuff like that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s not okay.\u201d I still lived in the dark, although I was free in that area of my life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So Noe, here you are now: you\u2019re a new creature in Christ; old things have passed; new things have come.\n\nAnd that happened to me, and I was thinking, \u201cNow, I am a new creature,\u201d and yet, after a while, I was still battling those same thoughts. I didn\u2019t realize, because I had cultivated them for years. I probably had neurological pathways that were deep, man! [Laughter] You know, I\u2019d just go on that path every day. I was still feeding myself these lies of: \u201cYou\u2019re nothing,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re no good,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not worthy,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019ll never succeed,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019ll never do anything worthwhile.\u201d Then, I remember reading Romans 12:2: \u201cDo not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d\n\nHow did that work out for you?\u2014did it change overnight?\u2014or was it a process?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>still<\/em> a process.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; me too.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I <em>know<\/em> these truths; I preach them every Sunday. [Laughter] But I also know that we\u2019re broken people, and that we live in our flesh, and that we have to still deal with the scars of yesterday.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How do we break free? Because, largely, your book\u2019s based on Romans 8, verse 1\u2014one of the most famous\/powerful\u2014\u201cThere\u2019s <em>no condemnation <\/em>for those of us who are in Christ.\u201d If that\u2019s true\u2014and you just said it\/we just said it\u2014then, <em>how <\/em>do we get stuck <em>not<\/em> living a free life?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what happens\u2014and it happens to all of us\u2014when you become a new creature in Christ, there\u2019s still the renewing of your mind. What happens is: when I have moments of\u2014say I lose my temper with my kids, and it reminds me of my father\u2014the enemy will tell me, even day, \u201cSee, you\u2019re not really different. Look at you; you\u2019re just like your father,\u201d\u2014<em>even today!<\/em>\n\nThen, the shame will overwhelm me; I have to battle: \u201cAm I different?\u201d \u201cAm I changed?\u201d That\u2019s what happens today. Let me share this: Romans chapter 8, verse 1: \u201cTherefore, there is <em>now <\/em>no condemnation for those that are in Christ.\u201d The word, \u201ccondemnation,\u201d is a legal term; okay? So picture us in court: your crime is brought before the judge. The judge is saying, \u201cHe is dismissed; he is forgiven\u201d; bang the gavel.\n\nThat term there is saying: \u201cNow\/today, your yesterday, today, and tomorrow are forgiven,\u201d\u2014which means the crime that you commit tomorrow doesn\u2019t have any power before the judge anymore because of what Christ has done. Here\u2019s what happens: when I sin, I have to retrain my thought by doing this\u2014by taking my thoughts captive\u2014if I don\u2019t take my thoughts captive, they will take <em>me<\/em> captive; and I will become a prisoner to my thoughts. It\u2019s like the enemy can whisper one thing\u2014and if I\u2019m not careful\u2014I will take the one word, and write a novel out of it of how I\u2019m horrible.\n\nI take this one word\u2014let\u2019s say I lose my temper with my kids, and I\u2019m telling myself, \u201cYou\u2019re just like your father,\u201d\u2014now, I can take this, and write a novel, and make it true; or I can take this before the courts of heaven, and ask, \u201cIs this a true statement?\u201d I take the thought captive\u2014bring it before God\u2014and if it doesn\u2019t hold up in His court, I have to fight to dismiss it. That takes a lot of work!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was going to say\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That takes intentionality.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that sounds <em>exhausting<\/em>; because we said yesterday,\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014<em>exhausting! <\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014we have <em>thousands <\/em>of thoughts a day\u2014much of them negative\u2014and you\u2019ve got to grab every one and take it captive.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s exhausting, but the novel that we will write with the lies is <em>devastating<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> So we have to pick.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I found that I would have those thoughts at night, when I put my head on the pillow\u2014you, Dave, you go right to sleep!\u2014[Laughter]\u2014I was like, \u201cHow does he do that?\u201d\n\nI would lay in bed at night and just go, over and over, my failures of that day. I will say this: the enemy\/the accuser would go over those stories each day.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I got into this habit of taking\u2014because it\u2019s such a lie! It doesn\u2019t do any good to go over what you\u2019ve\u2014you can confess it: \u201cJesus, I give it to You. I confess it; I\u2019m free!\u201d I picture myself handing the lie that I was believing\u2014or maybe the sin I had committed: \u201cIt\u2019s forgiven,\u201d\u2014so I would <em>hand<\/em> it to Him. Then, I could fall asleep at night.\n\nIt's <em>hard<\/em>, though, not to entertain the lies.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s hard; it\u2019s hard.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really hard.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> And this is what the enemy\u2019s been doing since Genesis 3\u2014the Fall in the garden\u2014what took place was they changed what they thought about God and what they thought about themselves. It\u2019s why they <em>hid<\/em>, because they were filled with <em>shame<\/em>. They were hiding from God.\n\nWhen we sin, what do we think?\u2014\u201cOh, man! How does He view me? Does He still love me? Is He going to use me?\u201d Then we view ourselves differently: \u201cWe\u2019re horrible,\u201d \u201cWe are defined by our failures,\u201d right? And it\u2019s just this ongoing battle, and it\u2019s a lifelong battle. I don\u2019t think it ever stops. I think we get better at the battle, but I don\u2019t think it ever stops.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, are you living in victory now?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> There are days when I\u2019m <em>not<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Man, there are days, where\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You are way too honest. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, you\u2019re not! I love it!!\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Gosh.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m kidding! I love that, because like you, so often the church and the Christian community just hides.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Like Genesis 3, we put on the leaves; we hide. It\u2019s <em>rare<\/em> that somebody brings the darkness to the light, and the light sets you free!\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It does.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you bring it out into the light, you become free. That\u2019s why I <em>love<\/em> you being that honest.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I\u2019m a professional confessor. [Laughter] Honestly, there are people who, you know, if I ever go see a counselor, they\u2019ll say, \u201cIs there anything that you\u2019ve never told anybody?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo! I can\u2019t live that way, man. No! I\u2019m getting it alllll out,\u201d\u2014probably, too much at times, but I just want to be <em>free<\/em>! I don\u2019t want to have any secrets or dirty hands. I want to be free\u2014not perfect\u2014but free!\n\nAnd so, I still have tough days; I\u2019ve got to be honest. If I have a bad day\u2014and I sin in my anger or whatever it may be\u2014man! I\u2019m shaming myself the rest of that day. I wish I could tell you, \u201cNo, every day victory!\u201d But I\u2019m <em>not<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember the day I\u2014the first year of our church: 1990; so it\u2019s 30-some years ago\u2014where I shared, from the pulpit, my struggle with pornography. I remember my co-pastor, Steve, came over and said, \u201cYou just changed this church.\u201d I thought it was bad, like, \u201cOh, did I just lose my job?!\u201d\u2014you know, especially then. He says, \u201cNo, I think you just turned this church into a place, where people will bring their full selves\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\"and say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to be real here.\u2019\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019Will I find acceptance here?\u2019 \u2018Is there victory in Christ here, in the middle of the struggle?\u2019\u201d That\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about, right?\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent! This scares churches, and it scared our church. I\u2019m not asking to lower the standard of holiness.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> I\u2019m talking about opening the window of grace; because for so long, we had this standard of holiness without this window of grace. But when you open the window of grace, I think it\u2019s easier to pursue the standard of holiness. That\u2019s what I\u2019m trying to do. By me being vulnerable and transparent, I want to help people to know that we <em>are <\/em>imperfect beings, but it doesn\u2019t stop our pursuit of holiness. It\u2019s not one or the other; it can be both.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019re listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Noe Garcia. If you\u2019ve ever been tempted to buy some anti-aging cream, well, stick around! Dave and Ann and Noe have something that\u2019s <em>even<\/em> better. But first, Noe\u2019s book is called <em>Repurposed: How God Turns Your Mess into His Message. <\/em>You can get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com; just click on \u201cToday\u2019s Resources\u201d to find it. Or you can call us at 800-358-6329; that\u2019s 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, earlier today, I was going through some of the reviews of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>I was super-encouraged to read a couple of the messages that have been posted there:\n\n\uf0b7\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 One person said, \u201cThis show has been a blessing to me and my family.\u201d\n\n\uf0b7\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Another person said, \u201cGreat content; great guests; and engaging interviews. This is consistently valuable.\u201d\n\n\uf0b7\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And one other said, \u201cDave and Ann Wilson are so genuine and wise. They have a wide range of guests with different experiences and areas of expertise. I\u2019m super-grateful to have found this podcast. Keep them coming.\u201d\n\nAnd we will keep them coming. Thank you so much for writing those reviews.\n\nYou know, it\u2019s people just like you, who help to make this program possible. And thanks to some generous Ministry Partners, if you give a gift anytime this month, it will be matched, dollar for dollar, until we hit $2.3 million. That\u2019s for a one-time gift; or if you become a monthly Partner, right now, your monthly gifts will be doubled for the next\n\n12 months! Again, you can give today at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; that\u2019s 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAlright, here are Dave and Ann with Noe Garcia.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think one of the things we\u2019re talking about is: \u201cIf you hold onto the secrets and the struggle\u2014and it\u2019s just a hidden secret\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, they\u2019re in the dark.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\"the shame stays.\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Whew!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> First of all, you confess it to God\u2014you find forgiveness\u2014but when you tell a brother or you tell a sister, James 5 says <em>healing<\/em>\u00a0 is where that happens. I think that involves shame.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because then, we can do work on the shame. As long as it\u2019s hidden, it\u2019s in the dark; and the dark wins. Once it comes into the light\u2014am I right?\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> God\u2019s like, \u201cI can now take this and <em>remove<\/em> the shame,\u201d\u2014not instantaneously\u2014\"but I can put you on a path to healing, where you\u2019re going to find freedom.\u201d\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> It\u2019s Psalm 32; David says it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> You know, when he kept silent, it says that he felt like \u201cGod\u2019s hand was heavy upon\u201d him. He felt like his body was withering away, day and night. He was miserable! But when he confessed it to the Lord, he found this freedom; he found his refuge!\n\nAbsolutely, it wears you\u2014I believe shame and secrets will wear you down; it\u2019ll tear you down; it will age you!\u2014you will be <em>exhausted<\/em>! So man, I pray for my kids all the time\/I pray that, if they have any secrets in their lives, they can\u2019t sleep or eat until they confess it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes, we prayed that prayer a lot.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s my prayer <em>all<\/em> the time; I pray it over my church too.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> Because I know that the enemy wants to take you somewhere with this stuff; so if you get it out into the light, he loses the battle.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The word for today is\u2014here it is\u2014\u201cTake off the mask.\u201d I\u2019m not talking about the pandemic mask\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you\u2019ve got to keep wearing that; maybe that\u2019s the safe thing to do\u2014I\u2019m talking about the fake mask\u2014\n\n<strong>Noe:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014of hiding your struggle. Tell God\u2014tell a brother if you\u2019re a man; tell a sister if you\u2019re a woman; tell a couple if you\u2019re a couple\u2014and let God begin the healing process. I mean, that\u2019s a beautiful story that you\u2019ve shared; that\u2019s the result.\n\nToday\u2019s <em>your<\/em> day to start.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> What if you were going through a crisis while you were struggling with the loss of someone close to you? That might make you angry with God. But what if that happened while you were pastoring a church plant? On <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>Dave and Ann Wilson are joined tomorrow by John Onwuchekwa, who explains the uproar this caused in his life; and how he dealt with the grief, the pain, and, frankly, the liar he became. That\u2019s tomorrow.\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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