{"id":307540,"date":"2022-08-27T06:00:00","date_gmt":"2022-08-27T10:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/making-the-mundane-matter-in-marriage\/"},"modified":"2022-08-27T06:00:00","modified_gmt":"2022-08-27T10:00:00","slug":"making-the-mundane-matter-in-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/making-the-mundane-matter-in-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"Making the Mundane Matter in Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Gary Thomas, Paul David Tripp, Jonathan Pitts, Dave and Ann Wilson, and Bob Lepine talk about how to face mundane irritants in marriage with transcendent grace.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>You promised for better or worse, but when you got married, did you imagine you&#8217;d have major conflict over things like ice cube trays or damp towels on the floor? Gary Thomas, Paul David Tripp, Jonathan Pitts, Dave and Ann Wilson, and Bob Lepine talk abou<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2022-08-27.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:00","filesize":"25.64M","filesize_raw":"26882886","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[4544,2378,6698,6699,2877],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3142,3647,3158,9536,3097],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-307540","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-conflict-in-marriage","tag-grace-in-marriage","tag-i-do","tag-irritating","tag-marriage","cwp_profile-bob-lepine","cwp_profile-dave-and-ann-wilson","cwp_profile-gary-thomas","cwp_profile-jonathan-pitts","cwp_profile-paul-david-tripp","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307540\/making-the-mundane-matter-in-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307540\/making-the-mundane-matter-in-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Fg84Nxraoo\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/making-the-mundane-matter-in-marriage\/\">Making the Mundane Matter in Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/making-the-mundane-matter-in-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=Fg84Nxraoo\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Making the Mundane Matter in Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Fg84Nxraoo\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2022-08-27.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2022-08-27.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> When you got married, did you have expectations of a fairytale life? You know, after all, Cinderella and Prince Charming were your examples; but then, the honeymoon ended.\n\n<strong>Paul:<\/strong> You walk into the bathroom; there\u2019s a wet towel on the bathroom floor. It probably shouldn\u2019t be there; and you say: \u201cI can\u2019t believe it! He would drop a wet towel on the floor! If he loved me, he would just never drop a wet towel on the floor! My dad was a dropper.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Paul Tripp, and we\u2019re going to talk today about towel droppers, ice cube tray non-fillers, and whether the toilet paper should be over the top or around the back. How does that work?\u2014I don\u2019t know. We\u2019re going to talk about how the mundane things can actually <em>stress<\/em> out a marriage on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. Are you a towel dropper? Or are you <em>married<\/em> to a towel dropper? Needless to say, if you\u2019re married, you probably have some conflict. Maybe it\u2019s over towels on the floor when you least expect it. It doesn\u2019t matter how the fight started\u2014or how the argument or how the conflict started\u2014what really matters is what we do with it. Here\u2019s Paul David Tripp again.\n\n[Recorded Message]\n\n<strong>Paul:<\/strong> If you make that big of a deal out of a wet towel on the floor, your problem is not just that you have a sloppy husband; your problem is you\u2019re full of yourself!\n\nOr you\u2019ll say: \u201cWhy do you drive so jerky? [Laughter] Everywhere we go, it\u2019s so jerky. Look at everybody else\u2014they go [imitating a motor]: \u2018Mmmmmm\u2019\u2014we never go, \u2018Mmmmmm\u2019; we just [bouncing sound]. [Laughter] I have to take Dramamine<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> just to ride with you!\u201d\n\nOr you <em>have <\/em>to be the grammar police: [Laughter] \u201cThat\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the way that word is <em>used<\/em>!\u201d Or you have to be the history police: you know, the other person can <em>never<\/em> tell a complete story without you jumping in.\n\nI had a wife say to me, \u201cI can barely go out to eat with my husband, because he chews like this [chomping sound].\u201d She said, \u201cHe\u2019s got a short upper lip and his teeth show.\u201d I\u2019m thinking, \u201cHe didn\u2019t go to the lip store and say, \u2018Give me the short ones!\u2019?\u201d [Laughter] \u201cI can\u2019t deal with the way he holds his fork,\u201d\u2014seriously?!\n\nOr you\u2019ve heard of the illustration of the toilet paper. I gave that particular illustration on a Friday night. At the end of the time together, a couple came to me and said: \u201cWe had such a rip-roaring battle over the flap of the toilet paper, that we called Charmin,<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> [Laughter] asked for a customer representative.\u201d If you\u2019re, right now, wanting to know what he said, you\u2019re missing the point of this illustration! [Laughter]\n\nListen, I\u2019ve told this in a funny way; but what I\u2019ve described to you is the sad, dark, mournful music of marriage gone bad. The joy is gone; the unity\u2019s gone; the love is dented and broken. You\u2019ll never, ever get beyond that unless you humbly say: \u201c<em>We do that to us<\/em>,\u201d\u2014because there\u2019s something inside of us that says\u2014\u201cI have to have my way.\u201d\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Oh, truth that hurts! That\u2019s Paul David Tripp, talking about just how those little fights escalate; and it\u2019s around that <em>mundane<\/em> stuff. Today, we\u2019re going to take a look at, well, those vows you make at the wedding ceremony: \u201c\u2026for better or worse.\u201d\n\nMaybe it should say, \u201c..for better, or mundane, or boring times in life.\u201d It\u2019s tense to be in those boring times of life\u2014you know what I\u2019m talking about\u2014you wake up; you have your breakfast; get ready; you give your spouse a peck. You go to work; you come home; you eat dinner; you go to bed. And you do it all over, and over, and over, and over again.\n\nIt\u2019s in those times that the little things\u2014like the filling up of the ice cube trays or the towel dropping\u2014that become an irritant. Just ask Gary Thomas, who\u2019s a speaker, author, and friend of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Gary has sort of a towel-dropping story\u2014has to do with an ice cube tray\u2014but he also shares how those little fights <em>escalate<\/em>. It\u2019s always around those little things\/those mundane things.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> There were no neon signs that said, \u201cThis is the direction you\u2019re headed.\u201d There were no signposts, saying, \u201cTurn left to go this direction\u201d; it was just: \u201cThis is what it\u2019s like\u2014serving the Lord, meeting a mortgage, raising kids\u2014this is what happens.\u201d I think the transcendent truth that you\u2019re talking about will change our attitudes as we face that.\n\nAnother time in our marriage\u2014we hadn\u2019t been married that long\u2014one of the issues that kept cropping up with Lisa and me had to do with ice cube trays. Now, the family I grew up in: if you got out an ice cube, you filled up the tray; and you put it back in the freezer so the next person would have a nice, full tray of ice cubes. I\u2019m convinced that\u2019s the biblical way to handle yourself in the kitchen. [Laughter] Unfortunately, my wife grew up in a family that would run that thing down to an ice chip. As long as there was anything you could scrape off with a knife, you weren\u2019t morally obligated to refill the tray and put it back there.\n\nEven though I\u2019m from Seattle, I\u2019m not a big coffee fan; but I\u2019m serious about my Pepsi<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and I like it cold. I pull out this tray, and one little ice chip would pop out. I\u2019d get so frustrated about these ice cube trays. I would share it with Lisa, and she would try to change; but you know, life-long habits can be impossible to break.\n\nOne night, she was speaking romantically to me; she said, \u201cGary, I\u2019m going to love you forever!\u201d I remember telling her: \u201cLisa, I don\u2019t need you to love me forever. I need you to love me for seven seconds.\u201d She said, \u201cWhat are you talking about?!\u201d I said, \u201cWell, I timed how long it takes to fill the ice cube trays and to put them in the freezer.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ooohhh! You are Mr. Romance; aren\u2019t you!?\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, really!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That moment of passion was gone; wasn\u2019t it? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the thing\u2014and this is a dangerous thing for husbands to do\u2014I was praying the next morning. The question came to me\/it dawned on me: \u201cIf it only takes her seven seconds to fill the ice cube trays, how long does it take me?\u201d\u2014well, seven seconds.\n\nThe question I had to grapple with was this: \u201cIs it possible I could be so shallow, so spiritually immature, and so selfish that I would honestly resent the fact that: \u201cHere\u2019s this woman\u2014who had committed her life to me\/who would, ultimately, bear me three children\u2014occasionally put me out for seven seconds, once or twice a week?\u201d\n\nI had to admit: \u201cYes; I am that shallow. I can be that selfish!\u201d It really changed my view. Instead of looking at those little annoyances of marriage that can just begin to fester and cause all kinds of relational poison and toxins, I began to look at it: \u201cYou know what? This is one of the reasons God <em>made<\/em> marriage: to <em>reveal<\/em> to us our sin; to show us, \u2018You know what? You might not be as mature as you thought you were. You were kind of hiding.\u2019\u201d You\u2019re able to do that, sometimes, as a single\u2014if I got into a difficult relationship, I could just have a different roommate or something\u2014but there\u2019s something about this, almost, enforced intimacy of marriage that <em>forced<\/em> me to look at my life in a way that I <em>never<\/em> had before.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Gary Thomas, talking about the festering of sin and, when those little annoyances sit, they start to fester and fester; and they can take over. I\u2019ve witnessed how little annoyances can be the beginning of the end in a roommate situation or in a marriage. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> good!\n\nWe have to be on guard against those little things and the sin in ourselves, but what happens when it\u2019s something kind of baked in?\u2014you know, something that is in our background\/how we were raised? That\u2019s something that Jonathan Pitts is familiar with. He and his late wife, Wynter, came from very different backgrounds. Wait! Why don\u2019t I let Jonathan share this? Here\u2019s Jonathan Pitts, talking with Dave and Ann Wilson and Bob Lepine.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> She grew up with her dad, who was a drug addict. She grew up with her mom and her grandmom in a house. Her mom and her grandmom both gave their lives to the Lord in 1979, the year before she was born. She grew up in a Christian home\u2014a very warm environment in the inner city of Baltimore\u2014lots of craziness going on around her home\u2014but in her home, it was warm.\n\nBut there was no father figure in there; so, one, I had to learn to bring my tone down. I grew up in a family\u2014twin brothers; three sisters. Everybody\u2019s fighting and jockeying for position; you know? We had two very different environments; so that was a struggle, early on\u2014just figuring out how to communicate well.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so I love the honesty in your book. I mean, immediately, I am like, \u201cThis is a couple that\u2019s going to let us in to their marriage!\u201d \u2014slamming doors\/fights\u2014the whole thing! [Laughter] And the story, early in your marriage, where she got lost.\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell that!\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Well, Wynter\u2014she wasn\u2019t a girl, who was really good at following directions, or even knowing where she was\u2014in fact, she hated South Jersey, which is a really rural part of New Jersey; because there are no streetlights, and there are circles, and all of this stuff.\n\nShe leaves because of a fight and gets out of the house. The reality was\u2014she didn\u2019t know where she was going\u2014she has to call me for directions to get home. [Laughter] For me, leaving wasn\u2019t an option. I think for Wynter, it was kind of: \u201cFight or flight\u201d kind of a deal. As she grew up, her dad left\u2014that was one of the struggles she had, early in our marriage\u2014but it wasn\u2019t for me. I watched my parents, who have now been married 45 years\/something like that; so there\u2019s going to be intensity there\u2014there\u2019s going to be all of that\u2014but leaving was never an option.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you work that out, when one of you would kind of shut down? Wynter was more quiet.\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So she would get quiet. Did that frustrate you? How did you guys work that out?\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, early on, it would frustrate me. I would just keep trying to assert myself and force myself\u2014not in like horrible ways but not in a way that was mature\u2014like if I was coming with\/even my intensity I talk with right now\u2014I just had that about me\u2014I had to learn to temper that. The more I did, the more she would receive anything that I had to offer. She also had to learn to kind of step up to the table,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014open up.\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> \u2014even when she didn\u2019t want to; yes. We met in the middle.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The title of your book is <em>Emptied<\/em>. The big idea is that, for marriage to work, we have to go through this process\/this ongoing process of emptying the us\u2014<em>not<\/em> the us\u2014the <em>me<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014empty the <em>me<\/em> out of the relationship so that we can love one another better. In a moment like this, where there\u2019s conflict, and one\u2019s walking out or the other is walking out, that\u2019s where you have to pull back and go: \u201cWhere\u2019s the selfishness in that? Where\u2019s the <em>me<\/em> that is the problem?\u201d and \u201cHow do I empty that?\u201d\n\nWe\u2019re talking to people, who have been in conflict in the last 24 hours, who have maybe not recognized the <em>me<\/em> in the middle of that. What do they <em>do<\/em> when they\u2019re in those moments? How do you drain the <em>me<\/em> out so you can be emptied?\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> The book is really based on Philippians 2:7\u2014you know, it\u2019s\u2014\u201cAlthough Jesus was equal with God, He didn\u2019t take His equality as something to be grasped, but became a servant, humbled Himself to the point of obedience and death on a cross.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s kind of a take on the idea of Jesus\u2014who had <em>every <\/em>right to stay up here [in heaven]\u2014basically comes down to meet somebody, who didn\u2019t deserve to be met\u2014us. The idea is, to be Christ-like, is actually to get rid of <em>anything<\/em> that would be any reason or any excuse as to why we can\u2019t come down to meet\u2014in any relationship, really, but specifically in marriage\u2014to meet our spouse.\n\nHonestly, the goal is emptying ourselves. We found a couple things that we\u2019d be full of that needed to be emptied. The first was sin\u2014like just sin we brought into our marriage\u2014ugly sin; just sin. We\u2019re human; we all bring it in. History, which we all bring in; and expectations, which we all bring in.\n\nSo how do you begin to empty yourselves of <em>those<\/em> things in order to be filled up\u2014and to be filled up with the Spirit?\u2014love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control, which God can\u2019t do if you\u2019re full of all this other stuff and all these reasons as to why you can\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk to the person\u2014and it would probably be me\u2014[Laughter]\u2014 who is going: \u201cOkay; I want to empty. I really value what you\u2019re saying. I do want to empty myself and get rid of the <em>me<\/em> and love her, and love anybody, the way they deserve; but I <em>can\u2019t<\/em>. I just get stuck! How do I <em>empty<\/em> myself?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes; well, first, it\u2019s like we end the book by talking about this reality\u2014that you can only do it, looking at Jesus\u2014\u201c\u2026looking unto Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of your faith.\u201d You, literally, have to look to Him as the solution. In terms of the world, we can all do marriage pretty \u201cokay\u201d; but to do what God\u2019s asked us to do, and to become <em>we<\/em>, that\u2019s not happening without Jesus!\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Wow! Those are some hard words from Jonathan Pitts\u2014hard words to hear, and hard words to act on\u2014you know, it\u2019s not about us; we\u2019re not the center. Is your marriage serving <em>you<\/em>, or is it serving God\u2019s purposes <em>for<\/em> you and your spouse? That\u2019s really what we need to be looking at: Jesus <em>is <\/em>the center. We need to empty ourselves of our expectations, and our history, and our sin; and we need to keep Him the center.\n\nYou know\u2014if you\u2019re in a tough spot in your marriage, and you\u2019re still listening today\u2014you might be questioning me\/you might be saying: \u201cMichelle! What about <em>me<\/em>? My husband doesn\u2019t love me; he doesn\u2019t want to be around me! Well, emptying myself of my expectations just doesn\u2019t seem to be working anymore.\u201d That\u2019s a fair question.\n\nWe need to take a break; but when we come back, we\u2019re going to take a stab at answering that question for you. We\u2019re going to talk about those tough spots in marriage, what some may call the \u201cLeah marriage.\u201d Stay tuned.\n\n[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\n<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. Today, we\u2019ve been talking about marriages going the long haul\u2014and how just the mundane way of life that just happens\u2014and during those mundane times, it can easily be the little things\/the little idiosyncrasies in your spouse that drive you insane!\n\nI also want to address the fact that, sometimes, going the distance in a marriage can be a very lonely place for one spouse or the other. That lonely place is a place of suffering; and it\u2019s so much more than just the towel\u2014and the dropper of the towel\u2014or the ice cube tray. We know this is true because you write letters to us. We receive letters from women and men, who are stuck in loveless marriages. Recently, we received a letter, and it broke Ann Wilson\u2019s heart. Here\u2019s the reading of that letter; she described herself being in a \u201cLeah marriage.\u201d\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Somebody writes and says:\n\nI enjoy your program. I do have a question that I don\u2019t hear anybody speaking about. What about the Leahs of the family?\n\nLeah is the reference to the Old Testament wife\u2014you know the story\u2014Jacob loved Rachel. Rachel\u2019s dad said, \u201cWell, if you want to marry Rachel, you\u2019ve got to marry Leah first.\u201d So she becomes the unwanted wife, living with a husband who didn\u2019t really want her in the first place.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This woman says:\n\nIn a Leah home, a husband is not interested in her or the children. I was listening to your program\u201d\u2014and this was when you guys were talking about <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>\u2014\u201cabout putting your spouse first. My spouse has always made it clear that he never wanted me or our children and has no interest in our marriage.\n\nAs time has gone on, he has been nicer to his children and has stopped <em>hating<\/em> me for ruining his life; but he still doesn\u2019t really speak to me. He rooms with me but has no real relationship and runs from any conversation that doesn\u2019t pertain to TV or immediate needs.\n\nI\u2019m not the only one, but you all make everything sound easy. I would venture to bet that a great number of marriages are not built from love. Most marriages in the Bible weren\u2019t built from love either. I don\u2019t have a love language, because that would be a <em>luxury<\/em> that I\u2019ve never been afforded. Just be advised: your perspective is a little short-sighted.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to cry, just because I cannot imagine the pain\/the loneliness that that woman goes through. That\u2019s really hard!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think there are a lot of people, who live there, honestly. I could see that\u2014as we share, and we talk, and we tell our victory stories\u2014it can feel very much like that\u2014like, \u201cI wish I could just have my husband interact with me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s one of those desperately lonely and hurtful places to be in a marriage. You stop and think about it: \u201cWhy do we get married?\u201d\u2014because there is some hope for another person, who will know us fully and love us, even when he or she knows us.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and that is the hope.\n\nI\u2019m assuming there are a lot of marriages, where people have entered into a covenant, because, maybe, a woman got pregnant and they decided to get married; so maybe there wasn\u2019t a real love there. We\u2019ve been in other countries, where it is an arranged marriage\u2014and they don\u2019t even know each other well, let alone love one another\u2014what does that look like? I think those are great questions.\n\nI would want her to go deeper into the story; because first, I would want to know if there\u2019s any abuse going on. If there\u2019s some sort of physical abuse, or even mental\u2014like torturing kind of thing\u2014I would probably advise her to leave the home. I\u2019m not advising her to divorce, but I\u2019m advising her to get safe and to get help. I would also really encourage her to get with a group of women in a church\/a local church, where they are preaching the gospel and God\u2019s Word. I would want her to be surrounded by people, who are loving her, encouraging her, speaking life into her, telling her what she\u2019s great at; because she\u2019s probably not getting that at home. That can feel very bleak, so those would be the first things I would say.\n\nAnd then, I would go into just talking about Jesus, and how much He loves her\/ how much He sees her. That\u2019s the thing!\u2014when you look at Genesis 29, and you\u2019re talking about Rachel and Leah\u2014as I\u2019ve read it over the years, I\u2019m always struck with\u2014it says, <em>every single time<\/em>: \u201cGod sees her,\u201d\u00a0 \u201cGod saw her,\u201d\u00a0 \u201cGod heard her.\u201d He was always noticing what was going on in Leah\u2019s life, and Rachel, and <em>all<\/em> of us.\n\nI think, for this listener, I would say: \u201cGod <em>sees<\/em> you; He hears you. He has caught every tear, and He\u2019s empathizing with your loneliness and your pain. He wants to come right beside you and enter into it with you if you\u2019ll allow Him to.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m telling you\u2014for the woman who wrote this email\u2014\u201cYou are loved by God! He has a plan for you! He sees you; He knows the marriage you\u2019re in; He\u2019s not surprised by it. He\u2019s wanting you to seek Him first, and He will be there for you.\u201d\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> If you are Leah, and you\u2019re living through that life, that\u2019s a hard life! Ann\u2019s words were hard, but they\u2019re <em>true<\/em>. If you are in that \u201cLeah marriage,\u201d I hope that Ann and Bob\u2019s words encouraged you. You are walking a hard journey\u2014a journey not everyone has\u2014but thank you for doing the hard thing.\n\nYou know, our friend Gary Thomas is famous for posing this question: \u201cWhat if your marriage is more about making you <em>holy<\/em> than it is about making you <em>happy<\/em>?\u201d I know those are hard, hard words to hear; but they are <em>true<\/em>. Here\u2019s Gary again.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I would be grossly overstating things if I said our biggest issue was ice cube trays: that was one principle. I don\u2019t want anybody to think that we have had this ideal marriage, where we haven\u2019t had substantive issues to deal with. I think that will come through, later this week, as we talk.\n\nBut one of the purposes\u2014again, we talk later about the covenant of marriage\u2014we don\u2019t get in front of a church and promise before God, and promise before our friends and family, that we will feed ourselves three times a day for the rest of our lives. Why don\u2019t we do that? Well, we know we\u2019re going to do that: it\u2019s <em>easy<\/em> to do that; we <em>want<\/em> to do that.\n\nThe reason we have marital commitments and covenants is because it presupposes that it\u2019s <em>difficult<\/em>; that it\u2019s not always easy. In fact, in every marriage, there are going to be times, when a couple is going to have to choose: \u201cWill we stay married?\u201d I\u2019m not just talking about divorce; although, certainly, that is part of it. I\u2019m talking about staying married in the sense of: \u201cWill we continue to fall <em>toward<\/em> each other? Will we continue to move toward each other? Will we continue to <em>act <\/em>married?\u201d <em>Every<\/em> marriage is going to face those times.\n\nThe value of this approach\u2014looking at, maybe, God designing marriage to make us holy even more than happy\u2014where it gives us, I think, some added mileage to our commitment\u2014is that it gives us that overall purpose\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> \u2014knowing that: \u201cEven if I have a spouse, who isn\u2019t cooperating, God is using this difficult marriage to shape me in such a way that I can fulfill His purposes for me in my life,\u201d\u2014that God is using this difficult marriage to make me into the type of person He wants me to be and to prepare me for the work He has.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What a nice reminder from Gary Thomas that God is continually working in our lives, and continually sanctifying us\u2014even in a difficult marriage, or even in a difficult spot in your marriage\u2014or even in your singleness. I know there are many times I look around and I\u2019m like: \u201cOuch, God! What are You doing <em>here<\/em>?\u201d But will you still walk through those hard times?\u2014and will you still serve a <em>good <\/em>God?\n\nYou know, we live in a time when nothing seems to satisfy us. We read our Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> feed and we\u2019re like, \u201cHow come my husband didn\u2019t bring me the dozen roses?\u201d Or we watch TV and he [husband] says, after a commercial, \u201cHey, how come you don\u2019t make <em>that<\/em> type of meal for <em>me<\/em>?\u201d You know, we live in a media-saturated life that tells us that somebody\u2019s life is <em>always<\/em> better than ours.\n\nWas it in the Psalms?\u2014I think Psalm 90, where King David says, \u201cOh, satisfy us in the morning with Your lovingkindness, that we may sing for joy and be glad all our days.\u201d Satisfy ourselves in God\u2014that\u2019s what He wants from us\u2014just something to think about\/something to ponder this weekend.\n\nHey, next week, we are going to hear from some college students about balancing college, family, and life. We\u2019ll find out the good and, well, maybe, the not-so-good advice that they received from mom and dad. It will be an insightful conversation. I hope you can join us for that.\n\nThanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. And a big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producers, Marques Holt and Bruce Goff and Meredith Empie. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our production coordinator.\n\nOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\nI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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promised for better or worse, but when you got married, did you imagine you'd have major conflict over things like ice cube trays or damp towels on the floor? Gary Thomas, Paul David Tripp, Jonathan Pitts, Dave and Ann Wilson, and Bob Lepine talk abou","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2022-08-27.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> When you got married, did you have expectations of a fairytale life? You know, after all, Cinderella and Prince Charming were your examples; but then, the honeymoon ended.\n\n<strong>Paul:<\/strong> You walk into the bathroom; there\u2019s a wet towel on the bathroom floor. It probably shouldn\u2019t be there; and you say: \u201cI can\u2019t believe it! He would drop a wet towel on the floor! If he loved me, he would just never drop a wet towel on the floor! My dad was a dropper.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Paul Tripp, and we\u2019re going to talk today about towel droppers, ice cube tray non-fillers, and whether the toilet paper should be over the top or around the back. How does that work?\u2014I don\u2019t know. We\u2019re going to talk about how the mundane things can actually <em>stress<\/em> out a marriage on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. Are you a towel dropper? Or are you <em>married<\/em> to a towel dropper? Needless to say, if you\u2019re married, you probably have some conflict. Maybe it\u2019s over towels on the floor when you least expect it. It doesn\u2019t matter how the fight started\u2014or how the argument or how the conflict started\u2014what really matters is what we do with it. Here\u2019s Paul David Tripp again.\n\n[Recorded Message]\n\n<strong>Paul:<\/strong> If you make that big of a deal out of a wet towel on the floor, your problem is not just that you have a sloppy husband; your problem is you\u2019re full of yourself!\n\nOr you\u2019ll say: \u201cWhy do you drive so jerky? [Laughter] Everywhere we go, it\u2019s so jerky. Look at everybody else\u2014they go [imitating a motor]: \u2018Mmmmmm\u2019\u2014we never go, \u2018Mmmmmm\u2019; we just [bouncing sound]. [Laughter] I have to take Dramamine<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> just to ride with you!\u201d\n\nOr you <em>have <\/em>to be the grammar police: [Laughter] \u201cThat\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the way that word is <em>used<\/em>!\u201d Or you have to be the history police: you know, the other person can <em>never<\/em> tell a complete story without you jumping in.\n\nI had a wife say to me, \u201cI can barely go out to eat with my husband, because he chews like this [chomping sound].\u201d She said, \u201cHe\u2019s got a short upper lip and his teeth show.\u201d I\u2019m thinking, \u201cHe didn\u2019t go to the lip store and say, \u2018Give me the short ones!\u2019?\u201d [Laughter] \u201cI can\u2019t deal with the way he holds his fork,\u201d\u2014seriously?!\n\nOr you\u2019ve heard of the illustration of the toilet paper. I gave that particular illustration on a Friday night. At the end of the time together, a couple came to me and said: \u201cWe had such a rip-roaring battle over the flap of the toilet paper, that we called Charmin,<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> [Laughter] asked for a customer representative.\u201d If you\u2019re, right now, wanting to know what he said, you\u2019re missing the point of this illustration! [Laughter]\n\nListen, I\u2019ve told this in a funny way; but what I\u2019ve described to you is the sad, dark, mournful music of marriage gone bad. The joy is gone; the unity\u2019s gone; the love is dented and broken. You\u2019ll never, ever get beyond that unless you humbly say: \u201c<em>We do that to us<\/em>,\u201d\u2014because there\u2019s something inside of us that says\u2014\u201cI have to have my way.\u201d\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Oh, truth that hurts! That\u2019s Paul David Tripp, talking about just how those little fights escalate; and it\u2019s around that <em>mundane<\/em> stuff. Today, we\u2019re going to take a look at, well, those vows you make at the wedding ceremony: \u201c\u2026for better or worse.\u201d\n\nMaybe it should say, \u201c..for better, or mundane, or boring times in life.\u201d It\u2019s tense to be in those boring times of life\u2014you know what I\u2019m talking about\u2014you wake up; you have your breakfast; get ready; you give your spouse a peck. You go to work; you come home; you eat dinner; you go to bed. And you do it all over, and over, and over, and over again.\n\nIt\u2019s in those times that the little things\u2014like the filling up of the ice cube trays or the towel dropping\u2014that become an irritant. Just ask Gary Thomas, who\u2019s a speaker, author, and friend of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Gary has sort of a towel-dropping story\u2014has to do with an ice cube tray\u2014but he also shares how those little fights <em>escalate<\/em>. It\u2019s always around those little things\/those mundane things.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> There were no neon signs that said, \u201cThis is the direction you\u2019re headed.\u201d There were no signposts, saying, \u201cTurn left to go this direction\u201d; it was just: \u201cThis is what it\u2019s like\u2014serving the Lord, meeting a mortgage, raising kids\u2014this is what happens.\u201d I think the transcendent truth that you\u2019re talking about will change our attitudes as we face that.\n\nAnother time in our marriage\u2014we hadn\u2019t been married that long\u2014one of the issues that kept cropping up with Lisa and me had to do with ice cube trays. Now, the family I grew up in: if you got out an ice cube, you filled up the tray; and you put it back in the freezer so the next person would have a nice, full tray of ice cubes. I\u2019m convinced that\u2019s the biblical way to handle yourself in the kitchen. [Laughter] Unfortunately, my wife grew up in a family that would run that thing down to an ice chip. As long as there was anything you could scrape off with a knife, you weren\u2019t morally obligated to refill the tray and put it back there.\n\nEven though I\u2019m from Seattle, I\u2019m not a big coffee fan; but I\u2019m serious about my Pepsi<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and I like it cold. I pull out this tray, and one little ice chip would pop out. I\u2019d get so frustrated about these ice cube trays. I would share it with Lisa, and she would try to change; but you know, life-long habits can be impossible to break.\n\nOne night, she was speaking romantically to me; she said, \u201cGary, I\u2019m going to love you forever!\u201d I remember telling her: \u201cLisa, I don\u2019t need you to love me forever. I need you to love me for seven seconds.\u201d She said, \u201cWhat are you talking about?!\u201d I said, \u201cWell, I timed how long it takes to fill the ice cube trays and to put them in the freezer.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ooohhh! You are Mr. Romance; aren\u2019t you!?\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, really!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That moment of passion was gone; wasn\u2019t it? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the thing\u2014and this is a dangerous thing for husbands to do\u2014I was praying the next morning. The question came to me\/it dawned on me: \u201cIf it only takes her seven seconds to fill the ice cube trays, how long does it take me?\u201d\u2014well, seven seconds.\n\nThe question I had to grapple with was this: \u201cIs it possible I could be so shallow, so spiritually immature, and so selfish that I would honestly resent the fact that: \u201cHere\u2019s this woman\u2014who had committed her life to me\/who would, ultimately, bear me three children\u2014occasionally put me out for seven seconds, once or twice a week?\u201d\n\nI had to admit: \u201cYes; I am that shallow. I can be that selfish!\u201d It really changed my view. Instead of looking at those little annoyances of marriage that can just begin to fester and cause all kinds of relational poison and toxins, I began to look at it: \u201cYou know what? This is one of the reasons God <em>made<\/em> marriage: to <em>reveal<\/em> to us our sin; to show us, \u2018You know what? You might not be as mature as you thought you were. You were kind of hiding.\u2019\u201d You\u2019re able to do that, sometimes, as a single\u2014if I got into a difficult relationship, I could just have a different roommate or something\u2014but there\u2019s something about this, almost, enforced intimacy of marriage that <em>forced<\/em> me to look at my life in a way that I <em>never<\/em> had before.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Gary Thomas, talking about the festering of sin and, when those little annoyances sit, they start to fester and fester; and they can take over. I\u2019ve witnessed how little annoyances can be the beginning of the end in a roommate situation or in a marriage. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> good!\n\nWe have to be on guard against those little things and the sin in ourselves, but what happens when it\u2019s something kind of baked in?\u2014you know, something that is in our background\/how we were raised? That\u2019s something that Jonathan Pitts is familiar with. He and his late wife, Wynter, came from very different backgrounds. Wait! Why don\u2019t I let Jonathan share this? Here\u2019s Jonathan Pitts, talking with Dave and Ann Wilson and Bob Lepine.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> She grew up with her dad, who was a drug addict. She grew up with her mom and her grandmom in a house. Her mom and her grandmom both gave their lives to the Lord in 1979, the year before she was born. She grew up in a Christian home\u2014a very warm environment in the inner city of Baltimore\u2014lots of craziness going on around her home\u2014but in her home, it was warm.\n\nBut there was no father figure in there; so, one, I had to learn to bring my tone down. I grew up in a family\u2014twin brothers; three sisters. Everybody\u2019s fighting and jockeying for position; you know? We had two very different environments; so that was a struggle, early on\u2014just figuring out how to communicate well.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so I love the honesty in your book. I mean, immediately, I am like, \u201cThis is a couple that\u2019s going to let us in to their marriage!\u201d \u2014slamming doors\/fights\u2014the whole thing! [Laughter] And the story, early in your marriage, where she got lost.\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell that!\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Well, Wynter\u2014she wasn\u2019t a girl, who was really good at following directions, or even knowing where she was\u2014in fact, she hated South Jersey, which is a really rural part of New Jersey; because there are no streetlights, and there are circles, and all of this stuff.\n\nShe leaves because of a fight and gets out of the house. The reality was\u2014she didn\u2019t know where she was going\u2014she has to call me for directions to get home. [Laughter] For me, leaving wasn\u2019t an option. I think for Wynter, it was kind of: \u201cFight or flight\u201d kind of a deal. As she grew up, her dad left\u2014that was one of the struggles she had, early in our marriage\u2014but it wasn\u2019t for me. I watched my parents, who have now been married 45 years\/something like that; so there\u2019s going to be intensity there\u2014there\u2019s going to be all of that\u2014but leaving was never an option.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you work that out, when one of you would kind of shut down? Wynter was more quiet.\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So she would get quiet. Did that frustrate you? How did you guys work that out?\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, early on, it would frustrate me. I would just keep trying to assert myself and force myself\u2014not in like horrible ways but not in a way that was mature\u2014like if I was coming with\/even my intensity I talk with right now\u2014I just had that about me\u2014I had to learn to temper that. The more I did, the more she would receive anything that I had to offer. She also had to learn to kind of step up to the table,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014open up.\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> \u2014even when she didn\u2019t want to; yes. We met in the middle.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The title of your book is <em>Emptied<\/em>. The big idea is that, for marriage to work, we have to go through this process\/this ongoing process of emptying the us\u2014<em>not<\/em> the us\u2014the <em>me<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014empty the <em>me<\/em> out of the relationship so that we can love one another better. In a moment like this, where there\u2019s conflict, and one\u2019s walking out or the other is walking out, that\u2019s where you have to pull back and go: \u201cWhere\u2019s the selfishness in that? Where\u2019s the <em>me<\/em> that is the problem?\u201d and \u201cHow do I empty that?\u201d\n\nWe\u2019re talking to people, who have been in conflict in the last 24 hours, who have maybe not recognized the <em>me<\/em> in the middle of that. What do they <em>do<\/em> when they\u2019re in those moments? How do you drain the <em>me<\/em> out so you can be emptied?\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> The book is really based on Philippians 2:7\u2014you know, it\u2019s\u2014\u201cAlthough Jesus was equal with God, He didn\u2019t take His equality as something to be grasped, but became a servant, humbled Himself to the point of obedience and death on a cross.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s kind of a take on the idea of Jesus\u2014who had <em>every <\/em>right to stay up here [in heaven]\u2014basically comes down to meet somebody, who didn\u2019t deserve to be met\u2014us. The idea is, to be Christ-like, is actually to get rid of <em>anything<\/em> that would be any reason or any excuse as to why we can\u2019t come down to meet\u2014in any relationship, really, but specifically in marriage\u2014to meet our spouse.\n\nHonestly, the goal is emptying ourselves. We found a couple things that we\u2019d be full of that needed to be emptied. The first was sin\u2014like just sin we brought into our marriage\u2014ugly sin; just sin. We\u2019re human; we all bring it in. History, which we all bring in; and expectations, which we all bring in.\n\nSo how do you begin to empty yourselves of <em>those<\/em> things in order to be filled up\u2014and to be filled up with the Spirit?\u2014love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control, which God can\u2019t do if you\u2019re full of all this other stuff and all these reasons as to why you can\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk to the person\u2014and it would probably be me\u2014[Laughter]\u2014 who is going: \u201cOkay; I want to empty. I really value what you\u2019re saying. I do want to empty myself and get rid of the <em>me<\/em> and love her, and love anybody, the way they deserve; but I <em>can\u2019t<\/em>. I just get stuck! How do I <em>empty<\/em> myself?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes; well, first, it\u2019s like we end the book by talking about this reality\u2014that you can only do it, looking at Jesus\u2014\u201c\u2026looking unto Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of your faith.\u201d You, literally, have to look to Him as the solution. In terms of the world, we can all do marriage pretty \u201cokay\u201d; but to do what God\u2019s asked us to do, and to become <em>we<\/em>, that\u2019s not happening without Jesus!\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Wow! Those are some hard words from Jonathan Pitts\u2014hard words to hear, and hard words to act on\u2014you know, it\u2019s not about us; we\u2019re not the center. Is your marriage serving <em>you<\/em>, or is it serving God\u2019s purposes <em>for<\/em> you and your spouse? That\u2019s really what we need to be looking at: Jesus <em>is <\/em>the center. We need to empty ourselves of our expectations, and our history, and our sin; and we need to keep Him the center.\n\nYou know\u2014if you\u2019re in a tough spot in your marriage, and you\u2019re still listening today\u2014you might be questioning me\/you might be saying: \u201cMichelle! What about <em>me<\/em>? My husband doesn\u2019t love me; he doesn\u2019t want to be around me! Well, emptying myself of my expectations just doesn\u2019t seem to be working anymore.\u201d That\u2019s a fair question.\n\nWe need to take a break; but when we come back, we\u2019re going to take a stab at answering that question for you. We\u2019re going to talk about those tough spots in marriage, what some may call the \u201cLeah marriage.\u201d Stay tuned.\n\n[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\n<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. Today, we\u2019ve been talking about marriages going the long haul\u2014and how just the mundane way of life that just happens\u2014and during those mundane times, it can easily be the little things\/the little idiosyncrasies in your spouse that drive you insane!\n\nI also want to address the fact that, sometimes, going the distance in a marriage can be a very lonely place for one spouse or the other. That lonely place is a place of suffering; and it\u2019s so much more than just the towel\u2014and the dropper of the towel\u2014or the ice cube tray. We know this is true because you write letters to us. We receive letters from women and men, who are stuck in loveless marriages. Recently, we received a letter, and it broke Ann Wilson\u2019s heart. Here\u2019s the reading of that letter; she described herself being in a \u201cLeah marriage.\u201d\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Somebody writes and says:\n\nI enjoy your program. I do have a question that I don\u2019t hear anybody speaking about. What about the Leahs of the family?\n\nLeah is the reference to the Old Testament wife\u2014you know the story\u2014Jacob loved Rachel. Rachel\u2019s dad said, \u201cWell, if you want to marry Rachel, you\u2019ve got to marry Leah first.\u201d So she becomes the unwanted wife, living with a husband who didn\u2019t really want her in the first place.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This woman says:\n\nIn a Leah home, a husband is not interested in her or the children. I was listening to your program\u201d\u2014and this was when you guys were talking about <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>\u2014\u201cabout putting your spouse first. My spouse has always made it clear that he never wanted me or our children and has no interest in our marriage.\n\nAs time has gone on, he has been nicer to his children and has stopped <em>hating<\/em> me for ruining his life; but he still doesn\u2019t really speak to me. He rooms with me but has no real relationship and runs from any conversation that doesn\u2019t pertain to TV or immediate needs.\n\nI\u2019m not the only one, but you all make everything sound easy. I would venture to bet that a great number of marriages are not built from love. Most marriages in the Bible weren\u2019t built from love either. I don\u2019t have a love language, because that would be a <em>luxury<\/em> that I\u2019ve never been afforded. Just be advised: your perspective is a little short-sighted.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to cry, just because I cannot imagine the pain\/the loneliness that that woman goes through. That\u2019s really hard!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think there are a lot of people, who live there, honestly. I could see that\u2014as we share, and we talk, and we tell our victory stories\u2014it can feel very much like that\u2014like, \u201cI wish I could just have my husband interact with me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s one of those desperately lonely and hurtful places to be in a marriage. You stop and think about it: \u201cWhy do we get married?\u201d\u2014because there is some hope for another person, who will know us fully and love us, even when he or she knows us.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and that is the hope.\n\nI\u2019m assuming there are a lot of marriages, where people have entered into a covenant, because, maybe, a woman got pregnant and they decided to get married; so maybe there wasn\u2019t a real love there. We\u2019ve been in other countries, where it is an arranged marriage\u2014and they don\u2019t even know each other well, let alone love one another\u2014what does that look like? I think those are great questions.\n\nI would want her to go deeper into the story; because first, I would want to know if there\u2019s any abuse going on. If there\u2019s some sort of physical abuse, or even mental\u2014like torturing kind of thing\u2014I would probably advise her to leave the home. I\u2019m not advising her to divorce, but I\u2019m advising her to get safe and to get help. I would also really encourage her to get with a group of women in a church\/a local church, where they are preaching the gospel and God\u2019s Word. I would want her to be surrounded by people, who are loving her, encouraging her, speaking life into her, telling her what she\u2019s great at; because she\u2019s probably not getting that at home. That can feel very bleak, so those would be the first things I would say.\n\nAnd then, I would go into just talking about Jesus, and how much He loves her\/ how much He sees her. That\u2019s the thing!\u2014when you look at Genesis 29, and you\u2019re talking about Rachel and Leah\u2014as I\u2019ve read it over the years, I\u2019m always struck with\u2014it says, <em>every single time<\/em>: \u201cGod sees her,\u201d\u00a0 \u201cGod saw her,\u201d\u00a0 \u201cGod heard her.\u201d He was always noticing what was going on in Leah\u2019s life, and Rachel, and <em>all<\/em> of us.\n\nI think, for this listener, I would say: \u201cGod <em>sees<\/em> you; He hears you. He has caught every tear, and He\u2019s empathizing with your loneliness and your pain. He wants to come right beside you and enter into it with you if you\u2019ll allow Him to.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m telling you\u2014for the woman who wrote this email\u2014\u201cYou are loved by God! He has a plan for you! He sees you; He knows the marriage you\u2019re in; He\u2019s not surprised by it. He\u2019s wanting you to seek Him first, and He will be there for you.\u201d\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> If you are Leah, and you\u2019re living through that life, that\u2019s a hard life! Ann\u2019s words were hard, but they\u2019re <em>true<\/em>. If you are in that \u201cLeah marriage,\u201d I hope that Ann and Bob\u2019s words encouraged you. You are walking a hard journey\u2014a journey not everyone has\u2014but thank you for doing the hard thing.\n\nYou know, our friend Gary Thomas is famous for posing this question: \u201cWhat if your marriage is more about making you <em>holy<\/em> than it is about making you <em>happy<\/em>?\u201d I know those are hard, hard words to hear; but they are <em>true<\/em>. Here\u2019s Gary again.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I would be grossly overstating things if I said our biggest issue was ice cube trays: that was one principle. I don\u2019t want anybody to think that we have had this ideal marriage, where we haven\u2019t had substantive issues to deal with. I think that will come through, later this week, as we talk.\n\nBut one of the purposes\u2014again, we talk later about the covenant of marriage\u2014we don\u2019t get in front of a church and promise before God, and promise before our friends and family, that we will feed ourselves three times a day for the rest of our lives. Why don\u2019t we do that? Well, we know we\u2019re going to do that: it\u2019s <em>easy<\/em> to do that; we <em>want<\/em> to do that.\n\nThe reason we have marital commitments and covenants is because it presupposes that it\u2019s <em>difficult<\/em>; that it\u2019s not always easy. In fact, in every marriage, there are going to be times, when a couple is going to have to choose: \u201cWill we stay married?\u201d I\u2019m not just talking about divorce; although, certainly, that is part of it. I\u2019m talking about staying married in the sense of: \u201cWill we continue to fall <em>toward<\/em> each other? Will we continue to move toward each other? Will we continue to <em>act <\/em>married?\u201d <em>Every<\/em> marriage is going to face those times.\n\nThe value of this approach\u2014looking at, maybe, God designing marriage to make us holy even more than happy\u2014where it gives us, I think, some added mileage to our commitment\u2014is that it gives us that overall purpose\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Gary:<\/strong> \u2014knowing that: \u201cEven if I have a spouse, who isn\u2019t cooperating, God is using this difficult marriage to shape me in such a way that I can fulfill His purposes for me in my life,\u201d\u2014that God is using this difficult marriage to make me into the type of person He wants me to be and to prepare me for the work He has.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What a nice reminder from Gary Thomas that God is continually working in our lives, and continually sanctifying us\u2014even in a difficult marriage, or even in a difficult spot in your marriage\u2014or even in your singleness. I know there are many times I look around and I\u2019m like: \u201cOuch, God! What are You doing <em>here<\/em>?\u201d But will you still walk through those hard times?\u2014and will you still serve a <em>good <\/em>God?\n\nYou know, we live in a time when nothing seems to satisfy us. We read our Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> feed and we\u2019re like, \u201cHow come my husband didn\u2019t bring me the dozen roses?\u201d Or we watch TV and he [husband] says, after a commercial, \u201cHey, how come you don\u2019t make <em>that<\/em> type of meal for <em>me<\/em>?\u201d You know, we live in a media-saturated life that tells us that somebody\u2019s life is <em>always<\/em> better than ours.\n\nWas it in the Psalms?\u2014I think Psalm 90, where King David says, \u201cOh, satisfy us in the morning with Your lovingkindness, that we may sing for joy and be glad all our days.\u201d Satisfy ourselves in God\u2014that\u2019s what He wants from us\u2014just something to think about\/something to ponder this weekend.\n\nHey, next week, we are going to hear from some college students about balancing college, family, and life. We\u2019ll find out the good and, well, maybe, the not-so-good advice that they received from mom and dad. It will be an insightful conversation. I hope you can join us for that.\n\nThanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. And a big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producers, Marques Holt and Bruce Goff and Meredith Empie. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our production coordinator.\n\nOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\nI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. 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