{"id":307482,"date":"2022-04-20T08:02:11","date_gmt":"2022-04-20T12:02:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/sam-allberry-winning-the-battle-of-body-and-soul\/"},"modified":"2022-04-20T08:02:11","modified_gmt":"2022-04-20T12:02:11","slug":"sam-allberry-winning-the-battle-of-body-and-soul","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sam-allberry-winning-the-battle-of-body-and-soul\/","title":{"rendered":"Sam Allberry: Winning the Battle of Body and Soul"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Dealing with our bodies&#8217; impulses is a raw, substantial part of our spirituality. Author Sam Allberry gets real about winning the battle, body &amp; soul.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dealing with our bodies&#8217; impulses is a raw, substantial part of our spirituality. Author Sam Allberry gets real about winning the battle, body &amp; soul.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-20.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:51","filesize":"22.75M","filesize_raw":"23850755","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2873,2093],"tags":[7077],"podcast_series":[8517],"cwp_profile":[3448],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307482","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-women","tag-body-and-soul","podcast_series-what-god-has-to-say-about-our-bodies","cwp_profile-sam-allberry","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307482\/sam-allberry-winning-the-battle-of-body-and-soul","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307482\/sam-allberry-winning-the-battle-of-body-and-soul","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"N7vJ6fja1w\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sam-allberry-winning-the-battle-of-body-and-soul\/\">Sam Allberry: Winning the Battle of Body and Soul<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sam-allberry-winning-the-battle-of-body-and-soul\/embed\/#?secret=N7vJ6fja1w\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Sam Allberry: Winning the Battle of Body and Soul&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"N7vJ6fja1w\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-20.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-20.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I can\u2019t avoid the truth that Jesus loves being our Savior. It may be: \u201cWell, I\u2019ve failed Jesus again; and this is time number 374 with this particular sin.\u201d Jesus still loves being our Savior; we will never out-sin His grace.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>Today<\/em>.\n\nWhen I first became a follower of Christ\u2014and again, you know this, Ann\u2014I hadn\u2019t really read the Bible\u2014didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home\u2014didn\u2019t really read the Bible.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You went to church, but you didn\u2019t know the Bible.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I fell asleep at church, so I didn\u2019t listen. I\u2019m starting to read the Bible as a young college-aged man; and I thought, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing in the Bible that I can relate to.\u201d That\u2019s what I thought.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, really.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I thought it\u2019s just this book that\u2019s\u2014it\u2019s not real\u2014it just doesn\u2019t talk about real life.\n\nI\u2019ll never forget\u2014in my first month, I\u2019m reading it on my own\u2014and I stumble across Romans, Chapter 7. I didn\u2019t know what I was reading at the time. Now, I\u2019m an astute Master of Divinity scholar. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, so you\u2019re a brand-new believer; and you\u2019re reading Romans 7.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and I read this\u2014I remember thinking to myself, \u201cThat\u2019s exactly my life right now,\u201d\u2014he said\/Paul wrote in Romans 7:14, \u201cFor we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh,\u00a0sold under sin. I do not understand my actions; for I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.\u201d He wants to do the right thing; but he\u2019s being so honest to say, \u201cBut I struggle; I actually do the wrong thing.\u201d I remember going to my mentor and saying, \u201cWhat is this about? Because this is what I feel; this is my daily struggle.\u201d\n\nIt was like this body of flesh and desires that my body had compared to the spiritual life, and the Holy Spirit of God living in me; there was a war going on that was described in Scripture that I didn\u2019t know what it meant and how to win this war.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because prior to knowing Jesus, you had given in to all of your bodily desires.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and now I\u2019m in Christ, and I\u2019m still struggling. I thought that would all go away, but it\u2019s still there.\n\nIt brings up this topic of the body; the Spirit\/the flesh; the Spirit. I think we all deal with this and we need help. We\u2019ve got help in the studio with us today. We\u2019ve got Sam Allberry, who\u2019s with us to join us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, Sam.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> It\u2019s always good to be with you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re looking at us, smiling about our little struggle here that we deal with. But obviously, I want to hear what you\u2019re thinking about that. But let me introduce you a little bit.\n\nYou\u2019ve written a book called <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies<\/em>. It\u2019s a <em>fascinating<\/em> theology of our bodies. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve ever read anything else like this.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s really unique, but really needed; and the subtitle is <em>How the Gospel Is Good News for Our Physical Selves<\/em>. We know that it\u2019s good news\u2014we know that the good news of Jesus affects our spirit\/our soul\u2014but we don\u2019t often connect the <em>body<\/em> to that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so let\u2019s talk, Sam. You\u2019re smiling about my little struggle with my physical body. I\u2019m guessing we all have that.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that a little bit\u2014this body we live in and this Spirit that lives in us\u2014there is a war.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> There is. I was smiling purely in terms of recognition, because you\u2019re articulating what we <em>all<\/em> feel.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re not laughing at me; you\u2019re laughing with me; right?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m also laughing because you then said, \u201cHere\u2019s all the problems, but don\u2019t worry; we have Sam here to fix it all.\u201d I was wondering if I could pretend to have Wi-Fi problems. [Laughter]\n\nPassages like that in Romans 7\u2014and there are other parts of the Bible, where you get the same kind of real: \u201cThis is what\u2019s going on under the hood in each of us,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s so reassuring; isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Because we sometimes get our heads to the point, where we think the Bible is kind of like an episode of <em>The Waltons<\/em>\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and church is like this: \u201cYou\u2019ve got to have your life together, and then you can come and open the Bible and have all of your life together being affirmed.\u201d\n\nYou realize that people in the Bible are a <em>mess<\/em>; they\u2019re a mess just in the way that we\u2019re a mess. Romans 7 gives expression to what every single person on the planet feels in some way, which is: \u201cThere is something about my desires that is not entirely right.\u201d Even the most kind of cynical, far-from-Christ kind of person still would recognize that not every instinct and impulse within them should be indulged. We feel that battle profoundly.\n\nIt\u2019s interesting: Paul uses the language of the flesh as a kind of short hand for our sinful instincts. By doing so, he\u2019s not meaning to say that the body is evil and only the Spirit within us is good, because the body is affirmed throughout the Bible and by Paul himself. But I think it\u2019s because so much of our experience of our own worse instincts has taken place in our bodies. Our bodies have often been the vehicle for those impulses and instincts; it\u2019s being the crime scene of our sin and other people\u2019s. We bear in our flesh, not just the scars of the sins that we have committed, but as well the shame of sins that have been committed against us\/have often been committed in our bodies. I think Paul is using the flesh for that kind of reason.\n\nBut he then\/he kind of crescendos: \u201cWho can rescue me from this body of death?\u201d And it can feel like that; our impulses are so heading in the wrong direction in so many ways.\n\nThere is great comfort for that experience is expressed by an apostle in the pages of Scripture. We can take some comfort from that. Every single one of us is a mess. If we\u2019re going through that Romans 7-experience ourselves, God is saying to us, \u201cYou are not on your own; you are not the freak here.\u201d\n\nThe trouble is, particularly when we go to church, we can look around and everyone looks as though other people have got their lives together more than we have. That\u2019s because we\u2019re comparing their outsides with their insides, if I can put it that way. Whereas, if we could see inside of them, we would see the very same struggle and battles as well.\n\nAs you come to faith, you begin to realize why that\u2019s the case and how that\u2019s been the case. You\u2019re more aware of the battle now because you\u2019ve have more of a sensitivity to sin and more of a desire to go God\u2019s ways. But as you said, we often think, \u201cOh, well, now I\u2019m a Christian, and this will all get sorted out and I\u2019ll be fixed; give myself a couple of weeks. Basically, these things will all sort themselves out; and I\u2019ll kind of move forward in a sort of happy coherent kind of way.\u201d\n\nWe realize that\u2019s not the case. We do have the gift of the Spirit; we do have new hearts. But as I sometimes put it, we have new creation software on old creation hardware. For as long as we are in these bodies, we will still be wrestling with our sinful nature\/with all of those instincts of the flesh that Paul is talking about.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about, from your experience and biblically, how do you win that battle with the flesh? You go to another book that Paul wrote in Galatians, verse 16,\n\nChapter 5; he says, \u201cBut I say walk by the Spirit,\u201d\u2014capital \u201cS\u201d, Holy Spirit\u2014\u201cand you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d\n\nI can remember one of my first years in ministry\u2014I\u2019ve written about this\u2014standing in front of a TV that had pornography on it\u2014this is back before there is the internet\u2014and feeling this\/I felt like overwhelming desire to look. It was like, \u201cWow!\u201d I remember standing there, going, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve ever felt a desire this strong against what God wants me to do.\u201d I just thought, \u201cI\u2019m going to struggle a little bit; but in Christ, the struggle won\u2019t be as strong as before.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m standing there, going, \u201cThis is a <em>powerful<\/em> urge.\u201d The flesh\/the desire to do the wrong thing\u2014to look at something I shouldn\u2019t have any reason to look at: \u201cI\u2019m a married man; I\u2019m a follower of Christ,\u201d\u2014was so strong. It struck me that: \u201cWow, <em>this is a battle<\/em>.\u201d At the same time, I know Paul\u2019s words: \u201cWalk by the Spirit; you will not gratify these desires,\u201d I was having.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And, Dave, it can be <em>food<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It can be anything.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of Paul saying, \u201cI beat my body, and I make it my slave.\u201d Those words are so descriptive of the battle.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that: \u201cHow do you walk by the Spirit and win this battle?\u201d I\u2019m guessing you <em>never<\/em> struggle like that, like we do; so talk about it.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; there are just three very easy steps, which I took twenty years ago, and I haven\u2019t sinned ever since then. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I figured, yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s very counterintuitive. Again, it\u2019s where we need to have the gospel on repeat in our own hearts. Because again, the flesh has its own fleshly way of dealing with the flesh. And we think, \u201cOkay, I need to man up. I need to do the equivalent of gulping down some spiritual protein shakes and <em>just kind of fight harder<\/em>, out of my own strength.\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s just <em>not<\/em> the answer. Paul shows us that in Romans 7: that the more you try to do that in your own strength, the deeper in you get. It\u2019s like trying to flail your way out of quick sand; you end up going down more and more.\n\nIt\u2019s Titus 2\u2014says\u2014\u201cIt is the grace of God that teaches us to say, \u2018No,\u2019 to ungodliness.\u201d [Titus 2:12] The only way we can fight these very, very deep-seated impulses that we find within us is we need to keep <em>receiving<\/em> the grace of God.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How do we do that?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Paul shows us; because the general shape of Paul\u2019s letters is to show us who we are in Christ and then to tell us how to start living that out. We need to receive and understand our new identities as Christian men and women. Romans 6 has a lot on this; he wants us to realize that sin is no longer who we are. The very first command that comes in the whole letter of Romans is Romans 6, it\u2019s either verse 13 or 18, or something like that, where he says, \u201c\u2026consider yourselves dead to sin [Romans 6:11].\u201d He doesn\u2019t say, \u201cStop sinning.\u201d He says, \u201c\u2026consider yourselves dead to sin.\u201d In other words, you need to <em>think<\/em> about yourself in a new way now; because you are not that guy any more.\n\nWhat our sinful nature tells us\/what the devil tells us is: \u201cStop trying to be this Christian version of yourself that you\u2019re clearly not. This is who you are\u2026\u201d \u201cThis is what you do\u2026\u201d \u201cThis is how we roll; have at it.\u201d\n\nPaul is trying to say: \u201cNo, no, that is who you <em>were<\/em>. But that <em>you<\/em> has died now; there\u2019s a new you on the block, and the new you is the real you. So it is now not holiness that is going against the grain of who you are. It\u2019s sin that\u2019s now going against the grain of who you really are. You will never be more truly who you are in your deepest core than when you\u2019re following Christ.\u201d\n\nI needed to know that, because all of us have various besetting sins that feel like they\u2019re the big ticket sins in our lives. I remember having a bit of a breakthrough with a particular sin in my own life when I realized: \u201cI don\u2019t have to commit that sin anymore. Paul says I\u2019m no longer under the mastery of that sin; I\u2019m under Christ instead.\u201d It doesn\u2019t mean I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> sin.\n<ul>\n \t<li>But it does mean, every time I do sin, I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> have to; because sin doesn\u2019t have that authority over me anymore. That\u2019s part of it: is trying to understand who we now are in Jesus and realizing that, actually, it\u2019s that who Christ has made us to be in Him that helps us then to walk in His ways\/be who you now are in Jesus.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>I think the other thing is simply remembering that our righteousness is in Jesus. This is not a matching-grant thing, where He\u2019ll put up most of the righteousness if we kind of add our own little bit. All of our righteousness is in Jesus.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nSo as I\u2019m wrestling with certain impulses in my heart, I can think, \u201cJesus has already lived righteously in that area of life for me. This particular way I can feel my body wanting to be misused and to commit sin, Jesus <em>never<\/em> did that. In that particular area of life, He was <em>always<\/em> righteous; he obeyed God and honored God <em>perfectly<\/em> with His body because He knew that I couldn\u2019t.\u201d There is a completion there that has already been prepared for me that I have now stepped into.\n\nSo I don\u2019t need to fight this in order to be in God\u2019s good graces, and to look my heavenly Father in the eye, or to look my Christian brother and sister in the eye. God has already counted me righteous in Christ, which then actually makes it safe for me to say to God and to other Christians, \u201cThis is what\u2019s going on in my heart right now.\u201d It\u2019s safe to say that because it\u2019s not threatening my standing with God or my place in His family.\n\nAs my friend and pastor, Ray Ortlund\u2014I\u2019ve heard him say this a few times\u2014\u201cWe don\u2019t defeat sin by the sort of gritting our teeth and force of willpower; we confess it to death.\u201d I\u2019ve often found that it\u2019s been the articulation of: \u201cThis is the crazy going on in my heart right now that I\u2019m dealing with.\u201d Just articulating that feels like it has already done something to that sin, because I\u2019ve been able to step outside of it and name it\u2014to show it in its true light to another Christian brother\u2014and that does change my relationship to that sin.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wasn\u2019t it Ray, he was just on [our program] talking about having a men\u2019s group and having teaching.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, \u201cThe Death of Porn.\u201d\n\n<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Oh, yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was Ray.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> And then we walk in the light with one another. So we receive the teaching\u2014we do our heavy doctrine\u2014and then we\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, now we confess our sins to each other.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what he talked about: confessing sins, where guys would just confess their sins to one another and how it was setting men free; because as they\u2019re talking about it; they\u2019re hearing the Word; they\u2019re confessing to one another. It was like\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, that was going to be my question to you, Sam. Is that what you would say to the person, who has made mistakes with their body\/they\u2019ve sinned with their body?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or maybe <em>against<\/em> them.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or against them? They\u2019ve lost that flesh\/Spirit battle often. They just feel defeated, and they hide often. They\u2019ve sort of given up, like, \u201cI\u2019ve tried; it doesn\u2019t work.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s hopeless.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to them? And even the parent\u2014is maybe watching their child struggle with that\u2014how would you counsel them?\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson talking with Sam Allberry on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We\u2019re going to hear Sam\u2019s response in just a moment. But first, let me just say that we\u2019d love to send you a copy of his brand-new book, <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies<\/em>. We\u2019d love to give you a copy when you make a donation of any amount this week to support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can do that in a couple of ways: one, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can give us a call with your donation at 1-800-358-6329. That donation can be a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAlright, now let\u2019s get back to Dave and Ann\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I think I would say you\u2019re describing every single human being\/every single Christian. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s true.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> We are, by definition, people who have been defeated by sin. That\u2019s why we\u2019re Christians and that\u2019s what qualifies us to be Christians; because we needed a champion to come and to fight that enemy for us, because we couldn\u2019t fight that enemy on our own.\n\nThe fact that Jesus has done that for us doesn\u2019t mean that we\u2019re now \u201cOkay,\u201d\u2014impervious to sin\u2014far from it. But it does mean that the grace we\u2019ve received from Jesus, we receive afresh every single day. Every single day, we can stand again in the righteousness that Christ has provided for us through His death and resurrection; and every day, we can come to Him in our need. That\u2019s what He expects.\n\nI was thinking the other day of that wonderful verse in Hebrews 12 [verse 2], where: \u201cFor the joy set before Him, He endured the cross\u2026\u201d It made me think, \u201cJesus knew the pain\u201d; we know that from the Garden of Gethsemane. He <em>knew<\/em> what He was stepping into in dying for us; and yet, Hebrews says: \u201cFor the joy set before Him\u2026\u201d He could see through that pain to the far horizon on the other side, and He knew that that would be a place of joy.\n\nI can\u2019t avoid the truth that Jesus <em>loves<\/em> being our Savior. To our defeated friends, listening to this\u2014and it may be: \u201cWell, I failed Jesus again; and this is time number 374 with this particular sin,\u201d\u2014Jesus still loves being our Savior; we will never out-sin His grace. You may feel as though <em>your sin<\/em> is going to be the one that actually crosses that red line and is going to be just too much for Jesus to deal with. But in the nicest possible way: \u201cYou\u2019re not that special,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because Romans 5: \u201cWhere sin abounds, grace abounds all the more [Romans 5:20].\u201d\n\nThere\u2019s always more grace in Jesus than sin in us; He\u2019s bigger than our sin, and His Spirit\u2019s within us. We don\u2019t have to deal with this on our own now; we can talk to Him about it. It\u2019s okay to come before Him with the worst things in our lives and to do that with His people. It\u2019s <em>healing<\/em> to do that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It just, like as you\u2019re talking, it just brings tears to my eyes. I think, so often, we think of Jesus as a God of judgment. We know that He hates our sin, but I think we often think that He hates <em>us<\/em> when we sin.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; no, He hates the enemy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, \u201c<em>He hates the enemy<\/em>\u201d; that\u2019s a good way to say it. Because I think\u2014\n<ul>\n \t<li>if we\u2019re not in God\u2019s Word;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>if we\u2019re not with God\u2019s people, [where] we\u2019re confessing;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>we\u2019re [not] in a healthy place, [where] people are reminding us of the great love of the Father and the Son\u2014<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\u2014we can get lost. I think a lot of us want to just give up, because we keep getting defeated.\n\nThe gospel that you are presenting is so attractional that it makes me want to <em>run<\/em> to Jesus. That\u2019s what Jesus does: He\u2019s saying, \u201cCome\/come to Me all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest [Matthew 11:28].\u201d\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; and there\u2019s not a limited number of runs that we\u2019re allowed to have so that\u2019s not a one-and-done thing\u2014that\u2019s every day\u2014with fresh weariness, there is fresh grace and rest available to us in Christ.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, I think the thing that I didn\u2019t realize that day, standing in front of the TV with the struggle with my flesh, that I learned and I hopefully am <em>never<\/em> going to stop learning, is\u2014I was standing there, as I said, and thought, \u201cWow, the power of this desire to do wrong is beyond powerful,\u201d\u2014I didn\u2019t realize it would be that strong\u2014I [also] did not know the other side, which is the power of God in me that resides literally in this temple\/this body is more powerful than my power\/my struggle to sin. It became one of my life verses\u2014Ephesians 3:20, where Paul says, \u201cNow to Him who is able\u201d\u2014right?\u2014\u201cto do immeasurably more than what we even imagine or think according to the power that is within us.\u201d He\u2019s talking about the Holy Spirit\/the power of God.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s not this perfect thing that I\u2019ll never sin again; but there is a power of God in us that can enable us to win over the flesh. And all of the things we talked about are part of that winning: having community\/confessing. We can never underestimate the literal power of the Holy Spirit of God in us is a powerful victory that we can access and live out in our struggle against our body.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think for our listeners to realize: \u201cHe loves you,\u201d \u201cHe\u2019s <em>longing<\/em> to be with you.\u201d So for us to be with Him\u2014to be in the Word\u2014it brings us life; it brings us hope; it brings us help.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. If you know of anyone who could benefit from today\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry, and I\u2019m sure you know someone, why don\u2019t you go ahead and tell them about this station? Or you can share today\u2019s episode from wherever you get your podcasts. While you\u2019re there, it would really help us out if you\u2019d rate and review us.\n\nI\u2019ve got with me today the president of FamilyLife, David Robbins. David, how great is it that we can have guests like Sam Allberry on to discuss such important topics that are relevant to all of us?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> I really appreciate when we can have conversations like we\u2019ve had today at FamilyLife. Because one of the things at FamilyLife we are most about is helping families experience time together around timeless truth.\n\nIt\u2019s one thing to hear truth, like Sam did so beautifully today about what God has to say about our bodies, but it\u2019s another thing for a parent and a kid to have time, looking at each other in the eye, and processing it together and what it means in our everyday lives. It\u2019s why one of the resources FamilyLife is most known for is <em>Passport2Purity<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Meg and I have used it with our three oldest kids. It\u2019s a <em>phenomenal<\/em> resource that allows you to get a weekend away and talk about with your kids their changing body\/this formative time in their lives.\n\nI would encourage you: \u201cIf you are a parent\u2014whether it\u2019s picking up Sam\u2019s resource about what God has to say about our bodies or <em>Passport2Purity<\/em> is another resource available to you\u2014take time, and not just read, but process it together with your kids.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s all about intentionality. Again, we believe in this book so much that, with a donation of any amount, we\u2019ll send you a copy of Sam Allberry\u2019s, <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies.<\/em>\n\nNow, I\u2019m a runner; and I remember when my coach would say to me, \u201cWhat do you do when you see the finish line?\u201d The answer was always, \u201cYou speed up.\u201d That\u2019s good workout advice, of course; and it could also be good <em>life<\/em> advice. Robert Wolgemuth wrote a book called <em>Gun Lap<\/em>. He\u2019ll join Dave and Ann tomorrow to talk about running well and finishing well. That\u2019s tomorrow; we hope you can join us.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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with our bodies' impulses is a raw, substantial part of our spirituality. Author Sam Allberry gets real about winning the battle, body &amp; soul.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I can\u2019t avoid the truth that Jesus loves being our Savior. It may be: \u201cWell, I\u2019ve failed Jesus again; and this is time number 374 with this particular sin.\u201d Jesus still loves being our Savior; we will never out-sin His grace.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>Today<\/em>.\n\nWhen I first became a follower of Christ\u2014and again, you know this, Ann\u2014I hadn\u2019t really read the Bible\u2014didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home\u2014didn\u2019t really read the Bible.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You went to church, but you didn\u2019t know the Bible.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I fell asleep at church, so I didn\u2019t listen. I\u2019m starting to read the Bible as a young college-aged man; and I thought, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing in the Bible that I can relate to.\u201d That\u2019s what I thought.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, really.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I thought it\u2019s just this book that\u2019s\u2014it\u2019s not real\u2014it just doesn\u2019t talk about real life.\n\nI\u2019ll never forget\u2014in my first month, I\u2019m reading it on my own\u2014and I stumble across Romans, Chapter 7. I didn\u2019t know what I was reading at the time. Now, I\u2019m an astute Master of Divinity scholar. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, so you\u2019re a brand-new believer; and you\u2019re reading Romans 7.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and I read this\u2014I remember thinking to myself, \u201cThat\u2019s exactly my life right now,\u201d\u2014he said\/Paul wrote in Romans 7:14, \u201cFor we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh,\u00a0sold under sin. I do not understand my actions; for I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.\u201d He wants to do the right thing; but he\u2019s being so honest to say, \u201cBut I struggle; I actually do the wrong thing.\u201d I remember going to my mentor and saying, \u201cWhat is this about? Because this is what I feel; this is my daily struggle.\u201d\n\nIt was like this body of flesh and desires that my body had compared to the spiritual life, and the Holy Spirit of God living in me; there was a war going on that was described in Scripture that I didn\u2019t know what it meant and how to win this war.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because prior to knowing Jesus, you had given in to all of your bodily desires.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and now I\u2019m in Christ, and I\u2019m still struggling. I thought that would all go away, but it\u2019s still there.\n\nIt brings up this topic of the body; the Spirit\/the flesh; the Spirit. I think we all deal with this and we need help. We\u2019ve got help in the studio with us today. We\u2019ve got Sam Allberry, who\u2019s with us to join us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, Sam.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> It\u2019s always good to be with you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re looking at us, smiling about our little struggle here that we deal with. But obviously, I want to hear what you\u2019re thinking about that. But let me introduce you a little bit.\n\nYou\u2019ve written a book called <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies<\/em>. It\u2019s a <em>fascinating<\/em> theology of our bodies. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve ever read anything else like this.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s really unique, but really needed; and the subtitle is <em>How the Gospel Is Good News for Our Physical Selves<\/em>. We know that it\u2019s good news\u2014we know that the good news of Jesus affects our spirit\/our soul\u2014but we don\u2019t often connect the <em>body<\/em> to that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so let\u2019s talk, Sam. You\u2019re smiling about my little struggle with my physical body. I\u2019m guessing we all have that.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that a little bit\u2014this body we live in and this Spirit that lives in us\u2014there is a war.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> There is. I was smiling purely in terms of recognition, because you\u2019re articulating what we <em>all<\/em> feel.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re not laughing at me; you\u2019re laughing with me; right?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m also laughing because you then said, \u201cHere\u2019s all the problems, but don\u2019t worry; we have Sam here to fix it all.\u201d I was wondering if I could pretend to have Wi-Fi problems. [Laughter]\n\nPassages like that in Romans 7\u2014and there are other parts of the Bible, where you get the same kind of real: \u201cThis is what\u2019s going on under the hood in each of us,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s so reassuring; isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Because we sometimes get our heads to the point, where we think the Bible is kind of like an episode of <em>The Waltons<\/em>\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and church is like this: \u201cYou\u2019ve got to have your life together, and then you can come and open the Bible and have all of your life together being affirmed.\u201d\n\nYou realize that people in the Bible are a <em>mess<\/em>; they\u2019re a mess just in the way that we\u2019re a mess. Romans 7 gives expression to what every single person on the planet feels in some way, which is: \u201cThere is something about my desires that is not entirely right.\u201d Even the most kind of cynical, far-from-Christ kind of person still would recognize that not every instinct and impulse within them should be indulged. We feel that battle profoundly.\n\nIt\u2019s interesting: Paul uses the language of the flesh as a kind of short hand for our sinful instincts. By doing so, he\u2019s not meaning to say that the body is evil and only the Spirit within us is good, because the body is affirmed throughout the Bible and by Paul himself. But I think it\u2019s because so much of our experience of our own worse instincts has taken place in our bodies. Our bodies have often been the vehicle for those impulses and instincts; it\u2019s being the crime scene of our sin and other people\u2019s. We bear in our flesh, not just the scars of the sins that we have committed, but as well the shame of sins that have been committed against us\/have often been committed in our bodies. I think Paul is using the flesh for that kind of reason.\n\nBut he then\/he kind of crescendos: \u201cWho can rescue me from this body of death?\u201d And it can feel like that; our impulses are so heading in the wrong direction in so many ways.\n\nThere is great comfort for that experience is expressed by an apostle in the pages of Scripture. We can take some comfort from that. Every single one of us is a mess. If we\u2019re going through that Romans 7-experience ourselves, God is saying to us, \u201cYou are not on your own; you are not the freak here.\u201d\n\nThe trouble is, particularly when we go to church, we can look around and everyone looks as though other people have got their lives together more than we have. That\u2019s because we\u2019re comparing their outsides with their insides, if I can put it that way. Whereas, if we could see inside of them, we would see the very same struggle and battles as well.\n\nAs you come to faith, you begin to realize why that\u2019s the case and how that\u2019s been the case. You\u2019re more aware of the battle now because you\u2019ve have more of a sensitivity to sin and more of a desire to go God\u2019s ways. But as you said, we often think, \u201cOh, well, now I\u2019m a Christian, and this will all get sorted out and I\u2019ll be fixed; give myself a couple of weeks. Basically, these things will all sort themselves out; and I\u2019ll kind of move forward in a sort of happy coherent kind of way.\u201d\n\nWe realize that\u2019s not the case. We do have the gift of the Spirit; we do have new hearts. But as I sometimes put it, we have new creation software on old creation hardware. For as long as we are in these bodies, we will still be wrestling with our sinful nature\/with all of those instincts of the flesh that Paul is talking about.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about, from your experience and biblically, how do you win that battle with the flesh? You go to another book that Paul wrote in Galatians, verse 16,\n\nChapter 5; he says, \u201cBut I say walk by the Spirit,\u201d\u2014capital \u201cS\u201d, Holy Spirit\u2014\u201cand you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d\n\nI can remember one of my first years in ministry\u2014I\u2019ve written about this\u2014standing in front of a TV that had pornography on it\u2014this is back before there is the internet\u2014and feeling this\/I felt like overwhelming desire to look. It was like, \u201cWow!\u201d I remember standing there, going, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve ever felt a desire this strong against what God wants me to do.\u201d I just thought, \u201cI\u2019m going to struggle a little bit; but in Christ, the struggle won\u2019t be as strong as before.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m standing there, going, \u201cThis is a <em>powerful<\/em> urge.\u201d The flesh\/the desire to do the wrong thing\u2014to look at something I shouldn\u2019t have any reason to look at: \u201cI\u2019m a married man; I\u2019m a follower of Christ,\u201d\u2014was so strong. It struck me that: \u201cWow, <em>this is a battle<\/em>.\u201d At the same time, I know Paul\u2019s words: \u201cWalk by the Spirit; you will not gratify these desires,\u201d I was having.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And, Dave, it can be <em>food<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It can be anything.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of Paul saying, \u201cI beat my body, and I make it my slave.\u201d Those words are so descriptive of the battle.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that: \u201cHow do you walk by the Spirit and win this battle?\u201d I\u2019m guessing you <em>never<\/em> struggle like that, like we do; so talk about it.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; there are just three very easy steps, which I took twenty years ago, and I haven\u2019t sinned ever since then. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I figured, yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s very counterintuitive. Again, it\u2019s where we need to have the gospel on repeat in our own hearts. Because again, the flesh has its own fleshly way of dealing with the flesh. And we think, \u201cOkay, I need to man up. I need to do the equivalent of gulping down some spiritual protein shakes and <em>just kind of fight harder<\/em>, out of my own strength.\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s just <em>not<\/em> the answer. Paul shows us that in Romans 7: that the more you try to do that in your own strength, the deeper in you get. It\u2019s like trying to flail your way out of quick sand; you end up going down more and more.\n\nIt\u2019s Titus 2\u2014says\u2014\u201cIt is the grace of God that teaches us to say, \u2018No,\u2019 to ungodliness.\u201d [Titus 2:12] The only way we can fight these very, very deep-seated impulses that we find within us is we need to keep <em>receiving<\/em> the grace of God.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How do we do that?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Paul shows us; because the general shape of Paul\u2019s letters is to show us who we are in Christ and then to tell us how to start living that out. We need to receive and understand our new identities as Christian men and women. Romans 6 has a lot on this; he wants us to realize that sin is no longer who we are. The very first command that comes in the whole letter of Romans is Romans 6, it\u2019s either verse 13 or 18, or something like that, where he says, \u201c\u2026consider yourselves dead to sin [Romans 6:11].\u201d He doesn\u2019t say, \u201cStop sinning.\u201d He says, \u201c\u2026consider yourselves dead to sin.\u201d In other words, you need to <em>think<\/em> about yourself in a new way now; because you are not that guy any more.\n\nWhat our sinful nature tells us\/what the devil tells us is: \u201cStop trying to be this Christian version of yourself that you\u2019re clearly not. This is who you are\u2026\u201d \u201cThis is what you do\u2026\u201d \u201cThis is how we roll; have at it.\u201d\n\nPaul is trying to say: \u201cNo, no, that is who you <em>were<\/em>. But that <em>you<\/em> has died now; there\u2019s a new you on the block, and the new you is the real you. So it is now not holiness that is going against the grain of who you are. It\u2019s sin that\u2019s now going against the grain of who you really are. You will never be more truly who you are in your deepest core than when you\u2019re following Christ.\u201d\n\nI needed to know that, because all of us have various besetting sins that feel like they\u2019re the big ticket sins in our lives. I remember having a bit of a breakthrough with a particular sin in my own life when I realized: \u201cI don\u2019t have to commit that sin anymore. Paul says I\u2019m no longer under the mastery of that sin; I\u2019m under Christ instead.\u201d It doesn\u2019t mean I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> sin.\n<ul>\n \t<li>But it does mean, every time I do sin, I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> have to; because sin doesn\u2019t have that authority over me anymore. That\u2019s part of it: is trying to understand who we now are in Jesus and realizing that, actually, it\u2019s that who Christ has made us to be in Him that helps us then to walk in His ways\/be who you now are in Jesus.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>I think the other thing is simply remembering that our righteousness is in Jesus. This is not a matching-grant thing, where He\u2019ll put up most of the righteousness if we kind of add our own little bit. All of our righteousness is in Jesus.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nSo as I\u2019m wrestling with certain impulses in my heart, I can think, \u201cJesus has already lived righteously in that area of life for me. This particular way I can feel my body wanting to be misused and to commit sin, Jesus <em>never<\/em> did that. In that particular area of life, He was <em>always<\/em> righteous; he obeyed God and honored God <em>perfectly<\/em> with His body because He knew that I couldn\u2019t.\u201d There is a completion there that has already been prepared for me that I have now stepped into.\n\nSo I don\u2019t need to fight this in order to be in God\u2019s good graces, and to look my heavenly Father in the eye, or to look my Christian brother and sister in the eye. God has already counted me righteous in Christ, which then actually makes it safe for me to say to God and to other Christians, \u201cThis is what\u2019s going on in my heart right now.\u201d It\u2019s safe to say that because it\u2019s not threatening my standing with God or my place in His family.\n\nAs my friend and pastor, Ray Ortlund\u2014I\u2019ve heard him say this a few times\u2014\u201cWe don\u2019t defeat sin by the sort of gritting our teeth and force of willpower; we confess it to death.\u201d I\u2019ve often found that it\u2019s been the articulation of: \u201cThis is the crazy going on in my heart right now that I\u2019m dealing with.\u201d Just articulating that feels like it has already done something to that sin, because I\u2019ve been able to step outside of it and name it\u2014to show it in its true light to another Christian brother\u2014and that does change my relationship to that sin.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wasn\u2019t it Ray, he was just on [our program] talking about having a men\u2019s group and having teaching.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, \u201cThe Death of Porn.\u201d\n\n<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Oh, yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was Ray.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> And then we walk in the light with one another. So we receive the teaching\u2014we do our heavy doctrine\u2014and then we\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, now we confess our sins to each other.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what he talked about: confessing sins, where guys would just confess their sins to one another and how it was setting men free; because as they\u2019re talking about it; they\u2019re hearing the Word; they\u2019re confessing to one another. It was like\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, that was going to be my question to you, Sam. Is that what you would say to the person, who has made mistakes with their body\/they\u2019ve sinned with their body?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or maybe <em>against<\/em> them.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or against them? They\u2019ve lost that flesh\/Spirit battle often. They just feel defeated, and they hide often. They\u2019ve sort of given up, like, \u201cI\u2019ve tried; it doesn\u2019t work.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s hopeless.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to them? And even the parent\u2014is maybe watching their child struggle with that\u2014how would you counsel them?\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson talking with Sam Allberry on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We\u2019re going to hear Sam\u2019s response in just a moment. But first, let me just say that we\u2019d love to send you a copy of his brand-new book, <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies<\/em>. We\u2019d love to give you a copy when you make a donation of any amount this week to support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can do that in a couple of ways: one, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can give us a call with your donation at 1-800-358-6329. That donation can be a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAlright, now let\u2019s get back to Dave and Ann\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I think I would say you\u2019re describing every single human being\/every single Christian. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s true.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> We are, by definition, people who have been defeated by sin. That\u2019s why we\u2019re Christians and that\u2019s what qualifies us to be Christians; because we needed a champion to come and to fight that enemy for us, because we couldn\u2019t fight that enemy on our own.\n\nThe fact that Jesus has done that for us doesn\u2019t mean that we\u2019re now \u201cOkay,\u201d\u2014impervious to sin\u2014far from it. But it does mean that the grace we\u2019ve received from Jesus, we receive afresh every single day. Every single day, we can stand again in the righteousness that Christ has provided for us through His death and resurrection; and every day, we can come to Him in our need. That\u2019s what He expects.\n\nI was thinking the other day of that wonderful verse in Hebrews 12 [verse 2], where: \u201cFor the joy set before Him, He endured the cross\u2026\u201d It made me think, \u201cJesus knew the pain\u201d; we know that from the Garden of Gethsemane. He <em>knew<\/em> what He was stepping into in dying for us; and yet, Hebrews says: \u201cFor the joy set before Him\u2026\u201d He could see through that pain to the far horizon on the other side, and He knew that that would be a place of joy.\n\nI can\u2019t avoid the truth that Jesus <em>loves<\/em> being our Savior. To our defeated friends, listening to this\u2014and it may be: \u201cWell, I failed Jesus again; and this is time number 374 with this particular sin,\u201d\u2014Jesus still loves being our Savior; we will never out-sin His grace. You may feel as though <em>your sin<\/em> is going to be the one that actually crosses that red line and is going to be just too much for Jesus to deal with. But in the nicest possible way: \u201cYou\u2019re not that special,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because Romans 5: \u201cWhere sin abounds, grace abounds all the more [Romans 5:20].\u201d\n\nThere\u2019s always more grace in Jesus than sin in us; He\u2019s bigger than our sin, and His Spirit\u2019s within us. We don\u2019t have to deal with this on our own now; we can talk to Him about it. It\u2019s okay to come before Him with the worst things in our lives and to do that with His people. It\u2019s <em>healing<\/em> to do that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It just, like as you\u2019re talking, it just brings tears to my eyes. I think, so often, we think of Jesus as a God of judgment. We know that He hates our sin, but I think we often think that He hates <em>us<\/em> when we sin.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; no, He hates the enemy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, \u201c<em>He hates the enemy<\/em>\u201d; that\u2019s a good way to say it. Because I think\u2014\n<ul>\n \t<li>if we\u2019re not in God\u2019s Word;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>if we\u2019re not with God\u2019s people, [where] we\u2019re confessing;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>we\u2019re [not] in a healthy place, [where] people are reminding us of the great love of the Father and the Son\u2014<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\u2014we can get lost. I think a lot of us want to just give up, because we keep getting defeated.\n\nThe gospel that you are presenting is so attractional that it makes me want to <em>run<\/em> to Jesus. That\u2019s what Jesus does: He\u2019s saying, \u201cCome\/come to Me all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest [Matthew 11:28].\u201d\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; and there\u2019s not a limited number of runs that we\u2019re allowed to have so that\u2019s not a one-and-done thing\u2014that\u2019s every day\u2014with fresh weariness, there is fresh grace and rest available to us in Christ.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, I think the thing that I didn\u2019t realize that day, standing in front of the TV with the struggle with my flesh, that I learned and I hopefully am <em>never<\/em> going to stop learning, is\u2014I was standing there, as I said, and thought, \u201cWow, the power of this desire to do wrong is beyond powerful,\u201d\u2014I didn\u2019t realize it would be that strong\u2014I [also] did not know the other side, which is the power of God in me that resides literally in this temple\/this body is more powerful than my power\/my struggle to sin. It became one of my life verses\u2014Ephesians 3:20, where Paul says, \u201cNow to Him who is able\u201d\u2014right?\u2014\u201cto do immeasurably more than what we even imagine or think according to the power that is within us.\u201d He\u2019s talking about the Holy Spirit\/the power of God.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s not this perfect thing that I\u2019ll never sin again; but there is a power of God in us that can enable us to win over the flesh. And all of the things we talked about are part of that winning: having community\/confessing. We can never underestimate the literal power of the Holy Spirit of God in us is a powerful victory that we can access and live out in our struggle against our body.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think for our listeners to realize: \u201cHe loves you,\u201d \u201cHe\u2019s <em>longing<\/em> to be with you.\u201d So for us to be with Him\u2014to be in the Word\u2014it brings us life; it brings us hope; it brings us help.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. If you know of anyone who could benefit from today\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry, and I\u2019m sure you know someone, why don\u2019t you go ahead and tell them about this station? Or you can share today\u2019s episode from wherever you get your podcasts. While you\u2019re there, it would really help us out if you\u2019d rate and review us.\n\nI\u2019ve got with me today the president of FamilyLife, David Robbins. David, how great is it that we can have guests like Sam Allberry on to discuss such important topics that are relevant to all of us?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> I really appreciate when we can have conversations like we\u2019ve had today at FamilyLife. Because one of the things at FamilyLife we are most about is helping families experience time together around timeless truth.\n\nIt\u2019s one thing to hear truth, like Sam did so beautifully today about what God has to say about our bodies, but it\u2019s another thing for a parent and a kid to have time, looking at each other in the eye, and processing it together and what it means in our everyday lives. It\u2019s why one of the resources FamilyLife is most known for is <em>Passport2Purity<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Meg and I have used it with our three oldest kids. It\u2019s a <em>phenomenal<\/em> resource that allows you to get a weekend away and talk about with your kids their changing body\/this formative time in their lives.\n\nI would encourage you: \u201cIf you are a parent\u2014whether it\u2019s picking up Sam\u2019s resource about what God has to say about our bodies or <em>Passport2Purity<\/em> is another resource available to you\u2014take time, and not just read, but process it together with your kids.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s all about intentionality. Again, we believe in this book so much that, with a donation of any amount, we\u2019ll send you a copy of Sam Allberry\u2019s, <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies.<\/em>\n\nNow, I\u2019m a runner; and I remember when my coach would say to me, \u201cWhat do you do when you see the finish line?\u201d The answer was always, \u201cYou speed up.\u201d That\u2019s good workout advice, of course; and it could also be good <em>life<\/em> advice. Robert Wolgemuth wrote a book called <em>Gun Lap<\/em>. He\u2019ll join Dave and Ann tomorrow to talk about running well and finishing well. That\u2019s tomorrow; we hope you can join us.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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