{"id":307480,"date":"2022-04-19T08:02:08","date_gmt":"2022-04-19T12:02:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/sam-allberry-christians-gender-dysphoria\/"},"modified":"2022-04-19T08:02:08","modified_gmt":"2022-04-19T12:02:08","slug":"sam-allberry-christians-gender-dysphoria","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sam-allberry-christians-gender-dysphoria\/","title":{"rendered":"Sam Allberry: Christians &amp; Gender Dysphoria"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>How can we bring God and the Bible into the painful complexities of gender dysphoria? Author Sam Allberry offers tips to express Jesus&#8217; compassion and help.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How can we bring God and the Bible into the painful complexities of gender dysphoria? Author Sam Allberry offers tips to express Jesus&#8217; compassion and help.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-19.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:33","filesize":"23.4M","filesize_raw":"24534118","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2873,2093],"tags":[7076],"podcast_series":[8517],"cwp_profile":[3448],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307480","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-women","tag-gender-dysphoria","podcast_series-what-god-has-to-say-about-our-bodies","cwp_profile-sam-allberry","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307480\/sam-allberry-christians-gender-dysphoria","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307480\/sam-allberry-christians-gender-dysphoria","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ZaOBnp29Aj\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sam-allberry-christians-gender-dysphoria\/\">Sam Allberry: Christians &amp; Gender Dysphoria<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sam-allberry-christians-gender-dysphoria\/embed\/#?secret=ZaOBnp29Aj\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Sam Allberry: Christians &amp; Gender Dysphoria&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ZaOBnp29Aj\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-19.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-19.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What percentage of people do you think, Dave, look in the mirror and absolutely <em>love<\/em> what they see?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! What percent?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The first number that came to my mind was one percent.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Very, very, very low. I remember\u2014do you remember\u2014the opening to <em>Happy Days<\/em>?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Don\u2019t you remember <em>Happy Days<\/em>?\u2014Fonzie?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s how <em>Happy Days <\/em>started\u2014he looked in the mirror; he was getting ready to do his hair\u2014and he just goes, \u201cOh, I\u2019m perfect\u201d; then he walks away. [Laughter] That was the opening of <em>every<\/em> show of <em>Happy Days. <\/em>I thought, \u201c<em>Nobody<\/em> does that!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Nobody looks in a mirror and goes, \u201cOh, I\u2019m perfect! Look at me! I\u2019m a work of God.\u201d I think\u2014am I wrong?\u2014do you? Do you look in the mirror and go, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing I would change. I just absolutely <em>love<\/em> how I look\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, since the age of 13, I\u2019ve been wanting to change things about me. And before that, I just never thought about it. I think that\u2019s true of the Western culture; I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s true in other parts of the world.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s find out. We\u2019ve got Sam Allberry back with us on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back, Sam.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, we\u2019re talking about this because you wrote a book called <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies. <\/em>It\u2019s really about applying the good news of the gospel to a theology of the body. Obviously, many know you as a pastor, a writer, a speaker, and an apologist.\n\nTalk about the UK. Is it any different there? Do people look in the mirror in the UK and say, \u201cOh, I just look awesome! There\u2019s nothing I want to change,\u201d or is it a struggle there as well as in the US?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> It\u2019s a huge issue in both of our countries and in so many parts of the world. As you rightly say, it\u2019s predominantly a Western thing; but given the kind of globalization of culture and everything else, it seems to be spreading into everywhere.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys, I\u2019m just going to say\u2014this is probably not true, and I\u2019ll probably offend a bunch of people\u2014but we, as women, we feel more sorry for ourselves; because we think, \u201cGuys have it easy!\u201d Women\/we have cycles every month which changes us hormonally. Some of us have babies, and then we have this added weight; and then we lose the weight.\u201d It\u2019s hard! See?\u2014it\u2019s way harder for us as women! Is that true?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think you\u2019re\/I think you\u2019re right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you?!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I do. Sam, do you agree?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I mean, I only have an experience of being a man, so I can\u2019t comment outside with that. [Laughter] But I would imagine so. What I would also say is that it\u2019s harder for men than most people realize.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I agree.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> We\u2019re not always as open and honest about it. But I know a lot of men who have huge angst and anxiety about their bodies and their appearance.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that is true, and it\u2019s become more so. I know that Dave has coached young men for <em>years\u2014<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve coached, you know, for almost 30 years. Thirty years ago, when I was coaching middle school basketball, you could say, in a practice: \u201cHey, you guys take off your shirts. Let\u2019s go skins versus shirts,\u201d\u2014you know, to pick teams. You can<em>not <\/em>say that anymore. They look at you like, \u201cI am <em>not <\/em>taking off my shirt. You can\u2019t ask me to do that. Give me a different color shirt. I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> going to let my peers even see my skin.\u201d\n\nSo it is <em>definitely <\/em>true for men as well as women. Do you feel that, Sam? That it\u2019s even <em>more<\/em> so?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Very much so; it\u2019s increasing. The surveys, that have been done on this, show that, amongst men and women, unhappiness about how we look is just going up, and up, and up, and up.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Lots of reasons for that; but I think, at least, one of those reasons is, with all our kind of online social media stuff, and just with the kind of technology that we live with, the standard of what counts now as being beautiful is almost entirely unrealistic and unattainable. Even the images we\u2019re seeing on the billboards and on the movie screens are not necessarily real: it\u2019s all been photo-shopped, or it\u2019s a Hollywood actor who looks the way they do because they\u2019ve been forced into a certain regime of training and eating that would not be sustainable beyond the lifespan of making that particular movie. But it\u2019s training all of us to think, \u201cWell, if you don\u2019t look like <em>that<\/em>, you\u2019re just kind of a waste of flesh.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, as you said, to <em>look<\/em> like a Hollywood actor is their life\/it\u2019s their job. I remember watching The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, on a talk show. The host of the talk show\u2014this was years ago\u2014he\u2019s [The Rock] got this sculpted physique that\u2019s just unbelievable. It\u2019s just what he does; right?\n\nI\u2019ll never forget: this host asked The Rock: \u201cDo you ever take a day off?\u201d I\u2019ll never forget; The Rock looks at him and goes, \u201cOh, yes; I cheat! Once every six months, I\u2019ll have a slice of pizza!\u201d [Laughter] <em>Once every six months?!<\/em> The truth is, you can\u2019t look like that if you cheat every day. For us to think that\u2019s the normal body\u2014that is <em>not <\/em>the normal body!\n\nBut let\u2019s talk about\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And even The Rock is going to get old, people.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the sections of your book is you talking about \u201cbroken bodies.\u201d One of the big questions in our culture right now is gender. As you think about physical\u2014and our bodies\u2014and the theology of the body from God\u2019s perspective, how would you enter into this question of gender?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s a big issue; and it\u2019s, obviously, a very tender issue. I think we\u2019re aware, with all the discussion going on about transgenderism\u2014we\u2019re particularly aware of that part of the conversation\u2014but it\u2019s actually a much broader conversation. So many men and women I speak to wonder if they\u2019re everything they\u2019re supposed to be, as a man or as a woman. Again, I think that anxiety is on the rise. Even among people within the church, there can be a sense of, you know, \u201cI feel like, if I\u2019m a man, I\u2019m supposed to be this sort of way, and I\u2019m not sure I am,\u201d \u2014or if I\u2019m a woman\u2014\u201cI\u2019m supposed to be like <em>that<\/em>, and I\u2019m not sure I am.\u201d\n\nIt's an area where, again, I think more than we might realize, people are not as comfortable as they may appear to be, even with their own sense of who they are as a man or a woman. Again, we can praise God that we\u2019re not left completely to ourselves to figure these things out; we have the Scriptures, and we need them. It\u2019s one of those areas where we need to be so careful not to say more than the Bible says about what it means to be a man or a woman, and certainly not to say <em>less <\/em>than the Bible says.\n\nI think\u2014and this is very broad brushstrokes\u2014I think sometimes Western culture says <em>less<\/em> than the Bible does, and I think the church sometimes says <em>more<\/em> than the Bible does. I think one of the ways that the Western culture often says <em>less<\/em> than the Bible does is simply by kind of denying that male and female are distinct physical categories at all. The focus is now much more on the inner sense of identity\/the inner sense of self\u2014and who you feel yourself to be\u2014being the real determiner of whether you are a man or a woman.\n\nWhereas, in the Bible, we see that, you know, God created us male and female in\n\nGenesis 1. Jesus reaffirms that in Matthew 19; and very significantly, just a few verses after, Jesus reaffirms that God has made us male and female, He says, \u201cSome are born eunuchs.\u201d He\u2019s saying, you know, the fact that we are male and female doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no complexity; doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no difficulties. There are people, whose experience and feelings of their own gender are not going to be straightforward.\n\nIn the case of the eunuch, Jesus is speaking about people who, in this instance, men who may not have all of the sort of anatomical package that you would expect a normal man to have. Jesus anticipates that there are going to be some complexities to that. So, being male and female doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no such thing as a eunuch\u2014there\u2019s no such thing as complexity\u2014but the presence of a eunuch, similarly, doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no thing as male and female. We need to, again, let the Scriptures show us that\u2014there is brokenness; there is pain; there is confusion\u2014but there are also some fixed points that we can build our understanding around.\n\nAnd I think that the church often goes further than the Bible by sort of adding to what it means to be a man. You know, \u201cIf you\u2019re a man, you\u2019re meant to be shooting stuff,\u201d [Laughter] or \u201c\u2026aggressive and athletic,\u201d or \u201cIf you\u2019re a woman, you\u2019re meant to be\u2026\u201d I remember a friend of mine saying his homeschool textbook said, \u201cGod wants women to be dainty.\u201d He was saying, \u201cThere wasn\u2019t a bracket with a Bible verse next to that sentence, because you can\u2019t\/there isn\u2019t a Bible verse that says that.\u201d\n\nI think sometimes, if our culture sort of obliterates any distinction between man and woman\/male and female, I think sometimes that the church has too narrow a view of what it can look like to be a man and what it can look like to be a woman. We see, within the Scriptures, some wonderfully-varied examples of great, godly men, and some varied examples of great, godly women.\n\nI think of King David. He epitomizes something of the stereotype\u2014you know, he was a warrior; he was a fighter\u2014that fits that kind of stereotype; and yet, David was also artistic. He spent a lot of time playing a harp and writing poems, things that we wouldn\u2019t necessarily associate with being sort of a real man. I think the Bible gives us slightly broader categories than we\u2019ve typically thought in.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Walk us through, Sam\u2014because I\u2019m thinking of our listeners, whose kids are struggling, maybe, with gender dysphoria\u2014they\u2019re confused, and they don\u2019t know. I talk to so many moms who are saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to say. I don\u2019t know how to say it. I don\u2019t know how to bring God and the Bible into this in a way that they would understand and even receive.\u201d\n\nI feel like you\u2019ve really helped us with a biblical context of how to communicate that. Talk to those parents, as their kids are confused: maybe they\u2019re in adolescence; and they\u2019re starting to wonder about themselves, especially in schools and in a culture that\u2019s really highlighting a lot of these things.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; it can be an agonizing situation for a parent to be in and, also, agonizing for the child as well. I think the very first thing we need to do is to be compassionate. Again, the Bible shows us that we don\u2019t have a straightforward relationship with our bodies. Paul says in Romans 8, \u201cCreation is being subjected to frustration.\u201d Our bodies are part of that creation; and so there is all manner of ways our bodies can be a source of pain, and confusion, and hurt.\n\nActually, Christians of all people should be the most instinctively compassionate to someone wrestling with gender dysphoria; because we\u2019ve got the Bible that accounts for how someone can end up feeling that way\u2014someone could even feel so alienated from their own body\/their own flesh; feel so ill at ease in their own skin\u2014we can understand that. The Bible shows us how that can be the case. I think [we are] to show compassion and understanding. Often, in the culture around us, a lot of the thinking and discourse around the issue of gender dysphoria is quite unhelpful and quite unbiblical; but the <em>pain<\/em> is very real. We should be very much alive to that.\n\nWe all have broken bodies. That gives us, even if I don\u2019t know what it <em>feels <\/em>like to wrestle with gender dysphoria, it means I should feel some form of solidarity with that struggling person\u2014because I don\u2019t know what their battle\u2019s like\u2014but I, also, have a broken body.\n\nWe also know, I think, that the answer to our bodily brokenness is not going to be found in our own bodies, not ultimately. Although, culturally, there are options for people who wrestle with gender dysphoria\u2014there are surgeries; there are hormonal treatments; there are all kinds of other things that can be done <em>to <\/em>the body to try to make it feel right for that person\u2014actually, we know, as Christians, that that is not going to be, ultimately, what helps; because underneath that gender dysphoria\/underneath all of our bodily brokenness, is a much deeper brokenness.\n\nTrying to fix one aspect, like our bodily brokenness, without attending to that deeper brokenness, means we won\u2019t really address the heart issues. We see around us instances, tragically, of people who\u2019ve gone through surgeries and transitions, and have ultimately not felt better about themselves. The rates of mental health and suicidal ideation amongst people, who\u2019ve gone through transition, can be so dramatically higher than for the wider population, which just means that we need to remind ourselves that the answer to this kind of bodily brokenness is ultimately the broken body of Jesus. That is where we find healing for our bodies; that\u2019s where we can begin to find peace when it comes to our bodies.\n\nJesus went through ultimate bodily brokenness for us: we know the physical afflictions that He went through; we can barely imagine what those must have been like. But we also know that, in His flesh, He bore our sins: \u201cGod made Him who had no sin to be sin for us.\u201d If I could put it this way, the ultimate experience of being in the wrong flesh was when He, who knew no sin, became sin for us. That is the ultimate dysphoria. And it\u2019s only going to be in <em>that<\/em> that we can find hope for our own. Because of what He\u2019s done, we will one day have bodies that will be perfectly fitted for our service of Christ and His people.\n\nUntil that day, for some people, gender dysphoria may be a life-long battle. I can think of one dear Christian friend of mine, who has wrestled with this his entire life. He just has to keep\u2014as we all do\u2014he has to keep bringing how he feels about himself under the gospel, and reminding himself of what God says about himself. All of us need that; because, again, as we talked about before, we have been fearfully and wonderfully made. By God\u2019s grace\u2014and it can take a long time\u2014with His help, we can begin to receive the body we have as a gift from Him.\n\nAgain, David says, \u201cI praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.\u201d That is not going to happen overnight for someone with gender dysphoria; it can be a battle for them, for decades, to praise God for the body that they\u2019ve been given. But it is a gift to us\u2014our bodies are a gift and a calling from the Lord\u2014they may not be the gift and the calling we would have chosen, and there can be so much about our physical experience in life that we would not have chosen, and that will not ultimately be fixed until the age to come, which is why we need to keep remembering there <em>is <\/em>an age to come; and we will not be disembodied in that age to come. We will have resurrected bodies. This life now\u2014this physical life now\u2014is not the <em>only <\/em>experience of embodied life we\u2019re going to have.\n\nSo, for our dear friends listening, who deal with chronic pain, there will be a time when you feel <em>pain-free<\/em> in your flesh. For those of us getting a little bit older and\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014losing our hair? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> You know, I\u2019m in my mid-40s; and every now and then, I manage to cause myself bizarre amounts of pain just by getting out of bed the wrong way or something. [Laughter] It\u2019s ridiculous. But you know, our best physical days are ahead of us! That\u2019s what it means to have a resurrected body. You know, I may have been in my prime in my early 20s, or whenever it was; but actually, my best physical days are ahead.\n\nI don\u2019t have to constantly look back; I can look <em>forward<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to start <em>using<\/em> that!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a beautiful thought! But I\u2019ve got to say this, Sam: what you just said in the last seven\/eight minutes was <em>such <\/em>a beautiful theology of the body. You started with something I think we really have to lean in[to] a little bit. It was the best response from a parent or a Christ-follower to someone who\u2019s struggling with whatever issue it is with their body, whether [or not it\u2019s] dysphoria, is compassion and empathy.\n\nHelp our parents understand what that would look like, and maybe even what that <em>wouldn\u2019t<\/em> look like. What <em>should<\/em> we or should we <em>not <\/em>do, as a Christ-follower\u2014especially our listeners, who are parents?\u2014 they\u2019re like, \u201cMan, you\u2019re talking to <em>me<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cMy son\u201d or \u201cMy daughter is right there!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because they\u2019re gripped in fear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So many parents are gripped with fear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Coach us up! What should we or should we <em>not<\/em> do?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019re listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Sam Allberry on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019ll hear Sam\u2019s response in just a minute; but first, let me just say that we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Sam\u2019s book, called <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies. <\/em>We\u2019ll send that to you when you make a donation of any amount this week to support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>You can do that at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call with your donation at 1-800-358-6329. That could be a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAlright, now let\u2019s get back to Dave and Ann\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I think what we shouldn\u2019t do\u2014and I\u2019m sure this is obvious\u2014but you know, if someone is expressing pain of something like gender dysphoria, then simply saying, \u201cYou shouldn\u2019t feel that way; you\u2019re not supposed to,\u201d\u2014you know, telling someone to \u201cStop it!\u201d\u2014is never a good first approach to an issue like that. We can\u2019t help experiencing some of these particular pains. We can help how we respond to them, and what we do with them, and what we allow ourselves to think about them and what they might mean or not mean.\n\nI think, you know, when someone is hurting: tenderness, listening well. Let\u2019s not turn, as parents, into Job\u2019s comforters and start kind of diagnosing where that person has clearly gone wrong. Or I\u2019m sure an easy reaction for a parent is to think, \u201cWell, what did <em>I<\/em> do wrong that means you are experiencing this?\u201d You could have done <em>every single thing<\/em> right as a parent\u2014which no one ever has\u2014and your child would still be experiencing the ravages of the fall, because we live in the fallen world. I\u2019ve got to say the doctrine of total depravity, I think, is a comfort to parents; because it means your child is going to experience fallen-ness in every area of life, however good a parent you are or are not.\n\nSo it\u2019s not something simply to sort of swoop in and try to correct; but to come in and understand, and sit alongside, and try and\/you know, we are to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. We can, over time, try to help someone to learn what it might mean to think biblically about a given struggle and a given pain; but the bit that precedes that is someone <em>feeling <\/em>heard, and understood, and sympathized with. And we have a great example of that in our Savior Himself. He\u2019s not unable to sympathize with us, and we can learn from His example and make sure we sympathize well with one another.\n\nI think those would be some of the key things to try to do what we can to understand and not try to go into fix-it mode.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We often say to parents, and we have said it to ourselves, in the first response: \u201cDo not freak out.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cIf you are freaking out, hold it inside.\u201d\n\nI think that that\u2019s super-helpful Sam, of we\u2019re offering empathy, sympathy, understanding, like: \u201cOh, that\u2019s got to be really hard for you, and confusing\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> To love them, to hold them, to hug them. Then you can go into your room, and you can get on your knees. This is what I would say: \u201cJesus, are You hearing this?! I don\u2019t even know what to do.\u201d But to go to the Father, who loves us, and wants to hear us, and longs to help us with whatever situation we\u2019re going through for ourselves or our kids.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And how beautiful would it be if the non-believing world felt like, \u201cThe safest place to go with any struggle I have is to a Christ-follower\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cto a community of Christ-followers,\u201d \u2014\u201cto my parents, who are Christ-followers. It\u2019s safe there; I will be understood there. I can bring my full self there\u2014my spiritual issues, my body issues\u2014you name it. That\u2019s where I\u2019m going to <em>run<\/em> rather than running away. I\u2019m running to that community, because there I find compassion.\u201d\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the picture that the church and we, as parents, should be.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Absolutely; amen to that. \u201cA bruised reed He will not break\u201d; we can trust Jesus with our most tender bruises. He\u2019s not going to stomp all over us; He\u2019s not going to scold us; He\u2019s not going to crush us. So that\u2014again, to what a parent can do\u2014is to show the child: \u201cI will do everything I can to be with you,\u201d and \u201cAs long as you\u2019re wrestling with this, I\u2019m going to be with you in it,\u201d \u201cBut Jesus can understand you in a way that none of the rest of us will be able to do. He\u2019s not unable to sympathize; He gets it more than we do! And He\u2019s going to be tender with you.\u201d\n\nWe can keep showing our precious kids that, whatever they\u2019re going through, they will never find anyone better than Jesus to bring those problems to. And to say, as a parent\u2014I\u2019m sure it\u2019s liberating for parents to say\u2014\u201cI can help you a certain amount; <em>He<\/em> can help you so much more. <em>He<\/em> is the Good Shepherd.\u201d\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>If you know of anyone who could benefit from today\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry, go ahead and tell them about this station; or you can share today\u2019s episode from wherever you get your podcasts as well. And while you\u2019re there, it would really help us out if you would rate and review us.\n\nNow, speaking of the body, if you\u2019ve got a preteen who might be starting to have questions about their body, you should really check out FamilyLife\u2019s <em>Passport2Purity<\/em>\u00ae. It\u2019s a chance for you and your preteen to get away, just the two of you, and listen to solid teaching on how a young person can navigate the changes they\u2019re experiencing as they become a young adult. You can find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nNow, what do we do when we resonate a little too much with what Jesus said about the spirit being willing, but the flesh\u2014or our bodies\u2014being weak?\u2014just give up and down a pint of ice cream in your PJs? Well, probably not. At least, not too often. Well, Sam Allberry will be back tomorrow to talk about what God has to say about our bodies.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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can we bring God and the Bible into the painful complexities of gender dysphoria? Author Sam Allberry offers tips to express Jesus' compassion and help.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-19.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What percentage of people do you think, Dave, look in the mirror and absolutely <em>love<\/em> what they see?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! What percent?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The first number that came to my mind was one percent.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Very, very, very low. I remember\u2014do you remember\u2014the opening to <em>Happy Days<\/em>?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Don\u2019t you remember <em>Happy Days<\/em>?\u2014Fonzie?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s how <em>Happy Days <\/em>started\u2014he looked in the mirror; he was getting ready to do his hair\u2014and he just goes, \u201cOh, I\u2019m perfect\u201d; then he walks away. [Laughter] That was the opening of <em>every<\/em> show of <em>Happy Days. <\/em>I thought, \u201c<em>Nobody<\/em> does that!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Nobody looks in a mirror and goes, \u201cOh, I\u2019m perfect! Look at me! I\u2019m a work of God.\u201d I think\u2014am I wrong?\u2014do you? Do you look in the mirror and go, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing I would change. I just absolutely <em>love<\/em> how I look\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, since the age of 13, I\u2019ve been wanting to change things about me. And before that, I just never thought about it. I think that\u2019s true of the Western culture; I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s true in other parts of the world.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s find out. We\u2019ve got Sam Allberry back with us on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back, Sam.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, we\u2019re talking about this because you wrote a book called <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies. <\/em>It\u2019s really about applying the good news of the gospel to a theology of the body. Obviously, many know you as a pastor, a writer, a speaker, and an apologist.\n\nTalk about the UK. Is it any different there? Do people look in the mirror in the UK and say, \u201cOh, I just look awesome! There\u2019s nothing I want to change,\u201d or is it a struggle there as well as in the US?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> It\u2019s a huge issue in both of our countries and in so many parts of the world. As you rightly say, it\u2019s predominantly a Western thing; but given the kind of globalization of culture and everything else, it seems to be spreading into everywhere.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys, I\u2019m just going to say\u2014this is probably not true, and I\u2019ll probably offend a bunch of people\u2014but we, as women, we feel more sorry for ourselves; because we think, \u201cGuys have it easy!\u201d Women\/we have cycles every month which changes us hormonally. Some of us have babies, and then we have this added weight; and then we lose the weight.\u201d It\u2019s hard! See?\u2014it\u2019s way harder for us as women! Is that true?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think you\u2019re\/I think you\u2019re right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you?!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I do. Sam, do you agree?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I mean, I only have an experience of being a man, so I can\u2019t comment outside with that. [Laughter] But I would imagine so. What I would also say is that it\u2019s harder for men than most people realize.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I agree.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> We\u2019re not always as open and honest about it. But I know a lot of men who have huge angst and anxiety about their bodies and their appearance.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that is true, and it\u2019s become more so. I know that Dave has coached young men for <em>years\u2014<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve coached, you know, for almost 30 years. Thirty years ago, when I was coaching middle school basketball, you could say, in a practice: \u201cHey, you guys take off your shirts. Let\u2019s go skins versus shirts,\u201d\u2014you know, to pick teams. You can<em>not <\/em>say that anymore. They look at you like, \u201cI am <em>not <\/em>taking off my shirt. You can\u2019t ask me to do that. Give me a different color shirt. I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> going to let my peers even see my skin.\u201d\n\nSo it is <em>definitely <\/em>true for men as well as women. Do you feel that, Sam? That it\u2019s even <em>more<\/em> so?\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Very much so; it\u2019s increasing. The surveys, that have been done on this, show that, amongst men and women, unhappiness about how we look is just going up, and up, and up, and up.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Lots of reasons for that; but I think, at least, one of those reasons is, with all our kind of online social media stuff, and just with the kind of technology that we live with, the standard of what counts now as being beautiful is almost entirely unrealistic and unattainable. Even the images we\u2019re seeing on the billboards and on the movie screens are not necessarily real: it\u2019s all been photo-shopped, or it\u2019s a Hollywood actor who looks the way they do because they\u2019ve been forced into a certain regime of training and eating that would not be sustainable beyond the lifespan of making that particular movie. But it\u2019s training all of us to think, \u201cWell, if you don\u2019t look like <em>that<\/em>, you\u2019re just kind of a waste of flesh.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, as you said, to <em>look<\/em> like a Hollywood actor is their life\/it\u2019s their job. I remember watching The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, on a talk show. The host of the talk show\u2014this was years ago\u2014he\u2019s [The Rock] got this sculpted physique that\u2019s just unbelievable. It\u2019s just what he does; right?\n\nI\u2019ll never forget: this host asked The Rock: \u201cDo you ever take a day off?\u201d I\u2019ll never forget; The Rock looks at him and goes, \u201cOh, yes; I cheat! Once every six months, I\u2019ll have a slice of pizza!\u201d [Laughter] <em>Once every six months?!<\/em> The truth is, you can\u2019t look like that if you cheat every day. For us to think that\u2019s the normal body\u2014that is <em>not <\/em>the normal body!\n\nBut let\u2019s talk about\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And even The Rock is going to get old, people.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the sections of your book is you talking about \u201cbroken bodies.\u201d One of the big questions in our culture right now is gender. As you think about physical\u2014and our bodies\u2014and the theology of the body from God\u2019s perspective, how would you enter into this question of gender?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s a big issue; and it\u2019s, obviously, a very tender issue. I think we\u2019re aware, with all the discussion going on about transgenderism\u2014we\u2019re particularly aware of that part of the conversation\u2014but it\u2019s actually a much broader conversation. So many men and women I speak to wonder if they\u2019re everything they\u2019re supposed to be, as a man or as a woman. Again, I think that anxiety is on the rise. Even among people within the church, there can be a sense of, you know, \u201cI feel like, if I\u2019m a man, I\u2019m supposed to be this sort of way, and I\u2019m not sure I am,\u201d \u2014or if I\u2019m a woman\u2014\u201cI\u2019m supposed to be like <em>that<\/em>, and I\u2019m not sure I am.\u201d\n\nIt's an area where, again, I think more than we might realize, people are not as comfortable as they may appear to be, even with their own sense of who they are as a man or a woman. Again, we can praise God that we\u2019re not left completely to ourselves to figure these things out; we have the Scriptures, and we need them. It\u2019s one of those areas where we need to be so careful not to say more than the Bible says about what it means to be a man or a woman, and certainly not to say <em>less <\/em>than the Bible says.\n\nI think\u2014and this is very broad brushstrokes\u2014I think sometimes Western culture says <em>less<\/em> than the Bible does, and I think the church sometimes says <em>more<\/em> than the Bible does. I think one of the ways that the Western culture often says <em>less<\/em> than the Bible does is simply by kind of denying that male and female are distinct physical categories at all. The focus is now much more on the inner sense of identity\/the inner sense of self\u2014and who you feel yourself to be\u2014being the real determiner of whether you are a man or a woman.\n\nWhereas, in the Bible, we see that, you know, God created us male and female in\n\nGenesis 1. Jesus reaffirms that in Matthew 19; and very significantly, just a few verses after, Jesus reaffirms that God has made us male and female, He says, \u201cSome are born eunuchs.\u201d He\u2019s saying, you know, the fact that we are male and female doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no complexity; doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no difficulties. There are people, whose experience and feelings of their own gender are not going to be straightforward.\n\nIn the case of the eunuch, Jesus is speaking about people who, in this instance, men who may not have all of the sort of anatomical package that you would expect a normal man to have. Jesus anticipates that there are going to be some complexities to that. So, being male and female doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no such thing as a eunuch\u2014there\u2019s no such thing as complexity\u2014but the presence of a eunuch, similarly, doesn\u2019t mean there\u2019s no thing as male and female. We need to, again, let the Scriptures show us that\u2014there is brokenness; there is pain; there is confusion\u2014but there are also some fixed points that we can build our understanding around.\n\nAnd I think that the church often goes further than the Bible by sort of adding to what it means to be a man. You know, \u201cIf you\u2019re a man, you\u2019re meant to be shooting stuff,\u201d [Laughter] or \u201c\u2026aggressive and athletic,\u201d or \u201cIf you\u2019re a woman, you\u2019re meant to be\u2026\u201d I remember a friend of mine saying his homeschool textbook said, \u201cGod wants women to be dainty.\u201d He was saying, \u201cThere wasn\u2019t a bracket with a Bible verse next to that sentence, because you can\u2019t\/there isn\u2019t a Bible verse that says that.\u201d\n\nI think sometimes, if our culture sort of obliterates any distinction between man and woman\/male and female, I think sometimes that the church has too narrow a view of what it can look like to be a man and what it can look like to be a woman. We see, within the Scriptures, some wonderfully-varied examples of great, godly men, and some varied examples of great, godly women.\n\nI think of King David. He epitomizes something of the stereotype\u2014you know, he was a warrior; he was a fighter\u2014that fits that kind of stereotype; and yet, David was also artistic. He spent a lot of time playing a harp and writing poems, things that we wouldn\u2019t necessarily associate with being sort of a real man. I think the Bible gives us slightly broader categories than we\u2019ve typically thought in.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Walk us through, Sam\u2014because I\u2019m thinking of our listeners, whose kids are struggling, maybe, with gender dysphoria\u2014they\u2019re confused, and they don\u2019t know. I talk to so many moms who are saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to say. I don\u2019t know how to say it. I don\u2019t know how to bring God and the Bible into this in a way that they would understand and even receive.\u201d\n\nI feel like you\u2019ve really helped us with a biblical context of how to communicate that. Talk to those parents, as their kids are confused: maybe they\u2019re in adolescence; and they\u2019re starting to wonder about themselves, especially in schools and in a culture that\u2019s really highlighting a lot of these things.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes; it can be an agonizing situation for a parent to be in and, also, agonizing for the child as well. I think the very first thing we need to do is to be compassionate. Again, the Bible shows us that we don\u2019t have a straightforward relationship with our bodies. Paul says in Romans 8, \u201cCreation is being subjected to frustration.\u201d Our bodies are part of that creation; and so there is all manner of ways our bodies can be a source of pain, and confusion, and hurt.\n\nActually, Christians of all people should be the most instinctively compassionate to someone wrestling with gender dysphoria; because we\u2019ve got the Bible that accounts for how someone can end up feeling that way\u2014someone could even feel so alienated from their own body\/their own flesh; feel so ill at ease in their own skin\u2014we can understand that. The Bible shows us how that can be the case. I think [we are] to show compassion and understanding. Often, in the culture around us, a lot of the thinking and discourse around the issue of gender dysphoria is quite unhelpful and quite unbiblical; but the <em>pain<\/em> is very real. We should be very much alive to that.\n\nWe all have broken bodies. That gives us, even if I don\u2019t know what it <em>feels <\/em>like to wrestle with gender dysphoria, it means I should feel some form of solidarity with that struggling person\u2014because I don\u2019t know what their battle\u2019s like\u2014but I, also, have a broken body.\n\nWe also know, I think, that the answer to our bodily brokenness is not going to be found in our own bodies, not ultimately. Although, culturally, there are options for people who wrestle with gender dysphoria\u2014there are surgeries; there are hormonal treatments; there are all kinds of other things that can be done <em>to <\/em>the body to try to make it feel right for that person\u2014actually, we know, as Christians, that that is not going to be, ultimately, what helps; because underneath that gender dysphoria\/underneath all of our bodily brokenness, is a much deeper brokenness.\n\nTrying to fix one aspect, like our bodily brokenness, without attending to that deeper brokenness, means we won\u2019t really address the heart issues. We see around us instances, tragically, of people who\u2019ve gone through surgeries and transitions, and have ultimately not felt better about themselves. The rates of mental health and suicidal ideation amongst people, who\u2019ve gone through transition, can be so dramatically higher than for the wider population, which just means that we need to remind ourselves that the answer to this kind of bodily brokenness is ultimately the broken body of Jesus. That is where we find healing for our bodies; that\u2019s where we can begin to find peace when it comes to our bodies.\n\nJesus went through ultimate bodily brokenness for us: we know the physical afflictions that He went through; we can barely imagine what those must have been like. But we also know that, in His flesh, He bore our sins: \u201cGod made Him who had no sin to be sin for us.\u201d If I could put it this way, the ultimate experience of being in the wrong flesh was when He, who knew no sin, became sin for us. That is the ultimate dysphoria. And it\u2019s only going to be in <em>that<\/em> that we can find hope for our own. Because of what He\u2019s done, we will one day have bodies that will be perfectly fitted for our service of Christ and His people.\n\nUntil that day, for some people, gender dysphoria may be a life-long battle. I can think of one dear Christian friend of mine, who has wrestled with this his entire life. He just has to keep\u2014as we all do\u2014he has to keep bringing how he feels about himself under the gospel, and reminding himself of what God says about himself. All of us need that; because, again, as we talked about before, we have been fearfully and wonderfully made. By God\u2019s grace\u2014and it can take a long time\u2014with His help, we can begin to receive the body we have as a gift from Him.\n\nAgain, David says, \u201cI praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.\u201d That is not going to happen overnight for someone with gender dysphoria; it can be a battle for them, for decades, to praise God for the body that they\u2019ve been given. But it is a gift to us\u2014our bodies are a gift and a calling from the Lord\u2014they may not be the gift and the calling we would have chosen, and there can be so much about our physical experience in life that we would not have chosen, and that will not ultimately be fixed until the age to come, which is why we need to keep remembering there <em>is <\/em>an age to come; and we will not be disembodied in that age to come. We will have resurrected bodies. This life now\u2014this physical life now\u2014is not the <em>only <\/em>experience of embodied life we\u2019re going to have.\n\nSo, for our dear friends listening, who deal with chronic pain, there will be a time when you feel <em>pain-free<\/em> in your flesh. For those of us getting a little bit older and\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014losing our hair? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> You know, I\u2019m in my mid-40s; and every now and then, I manage to cause myself bizarre amounts of pain just by getting out of bed the wrong way or something. [Laughter] It\u2019s ridiculous. But you know, our best physical days are ahead of us! That\u2019s what it means to have a resurrected body. You know, I may have been in my prime in my early 20s, or whenever it was; but actually, my best physical days are ahead.\n\nI don\u2019t have to constantly look back; I can look <em>forward<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to start <em>using<\/em> that!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a beautiful thought! But I\u2019ve got to say this, Sam: what you just said in the last seven\/eight minutes was <em>such <\/em>a beautiful theology of the body. You started with something I think we really have to lean in[to] a little bit. It was the best response from a parent or a Christ-follower to someone who\u2019s struggling with whatever issue it is with their body, whether [or not it\u2019s] dysphoria, is compassion and empathy.\n\nHelp our parents understand what that would look like, and maybe even what that <em>wouldn\u2019t<\/em> look like. What <em>should<\/em> we or should we <em>not <\/em>do, as a Christ-follower\u2014especially our listeners, who are parents?\u2014 they\u2019re like, \u201cMan, you\u2019re talking to <em>me<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cMy son\u201d or \u201cMy daughter is right there!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because they\u2019re gripped in fear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So many parents are gripped with fear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Coach us up! What should we or should we <em>not<\/em> do?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019re listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Sam Allberry on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019ll hear Sam\u2019s response in just a minute; but first, let me just say that we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Sam\u2019s book, called <em>What God Has to Say about Our Bodies. <\/em>We\u2019ll send that to you when you make a donation of any amount this week to support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>You can do that at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call with your donation at 1-800-358-6329. That could be a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAlright, now let\u2019s get back to Dave and Ann\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> I think what we shouldn\u2019t do\u2014and I\u2019m sure this is obvious\u2014but you know, if someone is expressing pain of something like gender dysphoria, then simply saying, \u201cYou shouldn\u2019t feel that way; you\u2019re not supposed to,\u201d\u2014you know, telling someone to \u201cStop it!\u201d\u2014is never a good first approach to an issue like that. We can\u2019t help experiencing some of these particular pains. We can help how we respond to them, and what we do with them, and what we allow ourselves to think about them and what they might mean or not mean.\n\nI think, you know, when someone is hurting: tenderness, listening well. Let\u2019s not turn, as parents, into Job\u2019s comforters and start kind of diagnosing where that person has clearly gone wrong. Or I\u2019m sure an easy reaction for a parent is to think, \u201cWell, what did <em>I<\/em> do wrong that means you are experiencing this?\u201d You could have done <em>every single thing<\/em> right as a parent\u2014which no one ever has\u2014and your child would still be experiencing the ravages of the fall, because we live in the fallen world. I\u2019ve got to say the doctrine of total depravity, I think, is a comfort to parents; because it means your child is going to experience fallen-ness in every area of life, however good a parent you are or are not.\n\nSo it\u2019s not something simply to sort of swoop in and try to correct; but to come in and understand, and sit alongside, and try and\/you know, we are to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. We can, over time, try to help someone to learn what it might mean to think biblically about a given struggle and a given pain; but the bit that precedes that is someone <em>feeling <\/em>heard, and understood, and sympathized with. And we have a great example of that in our Savior Himself. He\u2019s not unable to sympathize with us, and we can learn from His example and make sure we sympathize well with one another.\n\nI think those would be some of the key things to try to do what we can to understand and not try to go into fix-it mode.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We often say to parents, and we have said it to ourselves, in the first response: \u201cDo not freak out.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cIf you are freaking out, hold it inside.\u201d\n\nI think that that\u2019s super-helpful Sam, of we\u2019re offering empathy, sympathy, understanding, like: \u201cOh, that\u2019s got to be really hard for you, and confusing\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> To love them, to hold them, to hug them. Then you can go into your room, and you can get on your knees. This is what I would say: \u201cJesus, are You hearing this?! I don\u2019t even know what to do.\u201d But to go to the Father, who loves us, and wants to hear us, and longs to help us with whatever situation we\u2019re going through for ourselves or our kids.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And how beautiful would it be if the non-believing world felt like, \u201cThe safest place to go with any struggle I have is to a Christ-follower\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cto a community of Christ-followers,\u201d \u2014\u201cto my parents, who are Christ-followers. It\u2019s safe there; I will be understood there. I can bring my full self there\u2014my spiritual issues, my body issues\u2014you name it. That\u2019s where I\u2019m going to <em>run<\/em> rather than running away. I\u2019m running to that community, because there I find compassion.\u201d\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the picture that the church and we, as parents, should be.\n\n<strong>Sam:<\/strong> Absolutely; amen to that. \u201cA bruised reed He will not break\u201d; we can trust Jesus with our most tender bruises. He\u2019s not going to stomp all over us; He\u2019s not going to scold us; He\u2019s not going to crush us. So that\u2014again, to what a parent can do\u2014is to show the child: \u201cI will do everything I can to be with you,\u201d and \u201cAs long as you\u2019re wrestling with this, I\u2019m going to be with you in it,\u201d \u201cBut Jesus can understand you in a way that none of the rest of us will be able to do. He\u2019s not unable to sympathize; He gets it more than we do! And He\u2019s going to be tender with you.\u201d\n\nWe can keep showing our precious kids that, whatever they\u2019re going through, they will never find anyone better than Jesus to bring those problems to. And to say, as a parent\u2014I\u2019m sure it\u2019s liberating for parents to say\u2014\u201cI can help you a certain amount; <em>He<\/em> can help you so much more. <em>He<\/em> is the Good Shepherd.\u201d\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>If you know of anyone who could benefit from today\u2019s conversation with Sam Allberry, go ahead and tell them about this station; or you can share today\u2019s episode from wherever you get your podcasts as well. And while you\u2019re there, it would really help us out if you would rate and review us.\n\nNow, speaking of the body, if you\u2019ve got a preteen who might be starting to have questions about their body, you should really check out FamilyLife\u2019s <em>Passport2Purity<\/em>\u00ae. It\u2019s a chance for you and your preteen to get away, just the two of you, and listen to solid teaching on how a young person can navigate the changes they\u2019re experiencing as they become a young adult. You can find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nNow, what do we do when we resonate a little too much with what Jesus said about the spirit being willing, but the flesh\u2014or our bodies\u2014being weak?\u2014just give up and down a pint of ice cream in your PJs? Well, probably not. At least, not too often. Well, Sam Allberry will be back tomorrow to talk about what God has to say about our bodies.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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