{"id":307471,"date":"2022-04-12T08:02:12","date_gmt":"2022-04-12T12:02:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-kids-and-body-image\/"},"modified":"2022-04-12T08:02:12","modified_gmt":"2022-04-12T12:02:12","slug":"justin-lindsey-holcomb-kids-and-body-image","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-kids-and-body-image\/","title":{"rendered":"Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb: Kids and Body Image"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Real (\u2026occasionally awkward) conversations about body image vitally protect our kids. Authors Justin &#038; Lindsey Holcomb explain these critical conversations.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Real (\u2026occasionally awkward) conversations about body image vitally protect our kids. Authors Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb explain these critical conversations.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:22","filesize":"24.15M","filesize_raw":"25319012","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2835,2836],"tags":[7071],"podcast_series":[8515],"cwp_profile":[9768],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307471","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-raising-boys","category-raising-girls","tag-kids-and-body-image","podcast_series-god-made-me-in-his-image","cwp_profile-justin-lindsey-holcomb","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307471\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-kids-and-body-image","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307471\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-kids-and-body-image","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"5fhiaQtCWD\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-kids-and-body-image\/\">Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb: Kids and Body Image<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-kids-and-body-image\/embed\/#?secret=5fhiaQtCWD\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb: Kids and Body Image&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"5fhiaQtCWD\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The first audience who would have read Genesis\u2014they would have read this and been <em>blown away<\/em>\/dazzled that this phrase would have been used\u2014that they are a representative of some sort that reflects Yahweh, the \u201cI am who I am\u201d? Like: \u201cThat God?\u2014the One who <em>redeemed<\/em> us?\u2014the One who kicked the butts of the Egyptian gods in the plagues and then took us through the Red Sea?\u2014<em>that<\/em> God?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So you\u2019ve been coaching boys and young men for years and years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of my joys in life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; do you see anything different\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because I love football so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you do, actually. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, actually\u2014it isn\u2019t because of football\u2014it\u2019s developing boys into men; that\u2019s what coaching\u2019s all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve been doing it, ages,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014from five years old to eighteen years old.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; basically, to be with my boys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And has it changed in terms of how boys feel about themselves?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; one of the things that I was shocked at, when I was coaching middle school basketball, was\u2014when I played middle school basketball, if you wanted to have a scrimmage, you just said, \u201cHey, you guys take your shirts off. You guys are shirts and skins,\u201d\u2014I remember saying that; this is probably 20 years ago\u2014\u201cHey, let\u2019s go shirts and skins.\u201d And they looked at me, like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cJust take your shirts off; we don\u2019t have different colored jerseys.\u201d And the boys <em>refused <\/em>to take off their shirts. I said, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on here?\u201d I was just na\u00efve. They were like, \u201cWe are <em>not <\/em>taking off our shirts. I do not want another person to see my body without a shirt on.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014body.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And it hit me, right there in the gym, like: \u201cOh, my goodness! They don\u2019t feel good about their body, and they\u2019re not going to let anybody\u2026\u201d And I\u2019m not saying we did it back in the day, and it was right or wrong; I just didn\u2019t realize it was that big of a deal, but it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I went home that night, I remember thinking, as a dad with three sons, how we teach\/how we talk about body\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014not just the spiritual part; because we always think, \u201cOh, it\u2019s only spiritual,\u201d\u2014no; it\u2019s wholistic. It\u2019s <em>really big<\/em> how we, as parents, guide our kids in understanding their bodies. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got two experts with us. [Laughter] They\u2019re experts because they\u2019re parents!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But they\u2019re also experts because they\u2019ve written a book on this. Justin and Lindsey Holcomb are back with us again, back on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Thank you! Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It is <em>always <\/em>good to talk about this, especially with people who are <em>fun<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Fun?! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know about fun!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, Justin and Lindsey are back. You\u2019ve written a couple of books, but the one we\u2019re going to talk about today is <em>God Made Me in His Image: Helping Children Appreciate Their Bodies. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting\u2014your qualifications for this book, really, are being parents\u2014but obviously, Justin, you\u2019re a seminary prof at RTS, right here in Orlando. Am I right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been teaching there for 21 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and an Episcopalian priest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLindsey, you used to be a first-grade teacher. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you do that anymore?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I dabbled in that for a little bit. I\u2019ve kind of done a little bit of everything. I forgot about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, when I looked at your bio, it looked like you have 12 jobs; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Justin, I don\u2019t know about you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Both of them! No, he has had a bunch of jobs too!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> He does that, too; we like to keep busy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut yes, I\u2019ve been doing mostly like victim advocacy work for the last 15\/20 years. A lot of the stories of pain and suffering have given us great motivation for these books to empower and equip parents to then help their children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; well, as I picked up this book\u2014you know, I\u2019ve looked at it\u2014and it\u2019s illustrated so well! You\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, this is a book for children to understand what it means to be made in God\u2019s image.\u201d I want to hear what you have to say about that; but as I read it, I realized: \u201cOh, this is really a book for parents!\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s a little of both, but it\u2019s <em>really <\/em>a book to model, and show, and teach parents: \u201cHow do you talk about this with your kids?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTalk about the title; because it\u2019s like: \u201cGod made me in His image.\u201d How do you explain the image of God to a child?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes; the title\u2014<em>God Made Me in His Image\u2014<\/em>we are going straight from \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 1. We wanted to frame the whole conversation by a doctrine of creation\/a doctrine of humanity in the category in the Christian tradition and the Bible: \u201cHumans are made in God\u2019s image\u201d; and that means something! Every day that God created, God said, \u201cIt is good.\u201d He used the word, <em>tov<\/em>\u2014t-o-v\u2014\u201cgood.\u201d He got to humans on day six and said, \u201cHumans, they\u2019re good, good,\u201d\u2014<em>tov<\/em>, <em>tov<\/em>\u2014very\/like, \u201cThis is special work, the crown jewel of creation.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the image of God means that we <em>reflect<\/em> God in a special way like <em>nothing<\/em> else in creation. But there\u2019s really something\u2014I wanted the <em>imago <\/em>Dei: is the theological way of talking about the image of God\u2014is actually a tool for parents on this topic. Because the image of God\u2014if you look at the history: so if Moses writes Genesis, he\u2019s writing Genesis to a bunch of people, who were slaves in Egypt; and in Egypt, they knew that the pharaoh\/the king\u2014and this is common in the Ancient Near East\u2014they had such a large domain that they couldn\u2019t be everywhere all the time to show their authority and their force, so they would make a statue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, when Moses is writing, \u201cHumans are created in God\u2019s image,\u201d\u2014inspired by God to write this\u2014you know, all the doctrine in Scripture is all in order. So God inspires Moses to write: \u201cYou are made in God\u2019s image.\u201d There\u2019s a little bit of humility\u2014because you\u2019re only an image of God\u2014but there\u2019s <em>a lot<\/em> of dignity: \u201cYou\u2019re an image of <em>God!\u201d <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first audience who would have read Genesis\u2014they would have read this and been <em>blown away<\/em>\/dazzled that this phrase would have been used\u2014that <em>they<\/em> are a representative of some sort that reflects Yahweh, the \u201cI am who I am\u201d; like, \u201cThat God?\u2014the One who <em>redeemed<\/em> us?\u2014the One who kicked the butts of the Egyptian gods in the plagues and then took us through the Red Sea?\u2014<em>that<\/em> God?! We\u2019re an image of that God?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo to be able to take <em>that<\/em>\u2014we actually have a page where we explain that\u2014and give that as a tool to parents to be like: \u201cLet me tell you who you are. You\u2019re not just a great quarterback on your team,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not just a great volleyball player,\u201d or \u201cYou\u2019re not just beautiful,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not just\u2026\u201d\u2014whatever accolade we give them\u2014the <em>top<\/em> identity is: \u201cYou reflect God in a way that <em>nothing<\/em> else in creation can do that.\u201d That\u2019s some dignity; that needs to be repeated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe wanted to\/I think that\u2019s a good tool to give parents and let them explain it\u2014let them unpack that a little bit and apply it how they need to\u2014as they know their kid better than anyone else in the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Lindsey, did you ever struggle with that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I did; mine wasn\u2019t when I was ten. I know some of the stats are 80 percent of ten-year-olds have started dieting, at least, once in their life. I don\u2019t have a strong memory of that, but mine was in high school. This was before social media was a big thing. I can imagine\u2014back then, if social media had been as prevalent\u2014it would have been earlier, like we\u2019re seeing with youth now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMine was in high school. I was dating a guy who was not wonderful, and I think that played into it a lot. I was living in Latin America, where it\u2019s an over-sexualized culture; it was just in your face all the time. I struggled with an eating disorder in high school and a little bit into college. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo now, as we were researching and seeing the statistics that it\u2019s earlier and earlier that girls <em>and boys <\/em>are starting to have these conversations and questions about their bodies and their size, I think it\u2019s even more shocking; because of all that they\u2019re seeing, whether it\u2019s on video games, on social media, in print. They\u2019re just inundated with it constantly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJustin and I decided\/we were like, \u201cWe need to equip parents to have these conversations,\u201d\u2014whether it\u2019s little conversations at dinner or just by reading this book\u2014\u201cHow can we give them a foundation to launch from to then have more, hopefully, as things come up?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> This is across the board for parenting: about sex, about body image, about how to protect your body from sneaky people. Those have to be frequent, well-trod paths of conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And when should that start, you guys?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Oh, two\u2014one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> From the beginning!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> The beginning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really early! And you talk about: \u201cIt\u2019s not just one time\u201d; there are these little pockets, where you\u2019re instilling and asking questions all along the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019ve got to talk about that, because so many Christian parents think even the topic of sex with our kids is: \u201cA one and done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, the birds and the bees at age 11\/12, or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or even predators. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so what does it look like to continue that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It is <em>all the time<\/em>! I mean, honestly, when our girls were babies, Lindsey, changing their diaper, would just be talking to them. Actually, just made it normal to talk about proper names for body parts. Of course, she was doing that just to make it normal\/to set the tone. But also, she was shaping <em>me<\/em>; because I thought, \u201cWhy are we saying this? This is <em>weird<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] She explained why; and I was like, \u201cOh, that makes a lot of sense! Oh, my goodness; I mean, I would not have thought of this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt makes <em>sense<\/em> that most people just go, \u201cWell\u2026\u201d\u2014about sneaky people\/you know, preventing from sexual abuse; body image; and how babies are made\u2014those are not fun conversations, because parents feel <em>awkward<\/em>. But those are <em>really important<\/em> conversations. All the more reason to have, not just \u201cthe talk,\u201d but have <em>numerous<\/em> talks. That\u2019s what Lindsey just kind of modeled to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo to start the conversation\u2014maybe this is a tool for it\u2014don\u2019t have <em>one <\/em>conversation about this; this is just sprinkled throughout your conversations. Be <em>aware<\/em> of this topic and be sensitive to it. Have your eyes open for it; be <em>looking<\/em> for an opportunity. You might not have an open door for a month or two; you might have one as soon as you even get <em>close<\/em> to the subject.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Here\u2019s the thing\u2014if you\u2019re not talking to your kids\u2014two things: somebody else is; and they\u2019re going to hear things at school from their peers; they\u2019re going to hear things from media. So you want to make sure you\u2019re checking in and kind of giving them another perspective\u2014whether you\u2019re watching a show, or you hear something, or it\u2019s at the dinner table\u2014you want to be just another message of truth, of dignity, of honesty; so that, if something happens\u2014I\u2019m talking whether it\u2019s something that\u2019s sexually inappropriate; sexual assault; or if they\u2019re called something at school\u2014\u201c\u2026fat,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re gross,\u201d\u2014whatever the word may be\u2014they will understand, \u201cHey, this is something my parents talk about and understand. I can go and talk with them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhereas, if you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> ever have a conversation, they\u2019re not going to talk to you; because they\u2019re going to think, \u201cMy parent doesn\u2019t know anything about this; I\u2019m going to freak them out!\u201d \u201cThey\u2019re not equipped; they won\u2019t know what to do. So I\u2019m just going to stuff it,\u201d or \u201c\u2026go talk to my girlfriend,\u201d\u2014who won\u2019t know what to say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the more you just kind of weave it throughout, whether it\u2019s talking about predators and sneaky people, or talking about: \u201cHey, your body is <em>strong<\/em> and <em>amazing <\/em>what you just did out there on that athletic field,\u201d or \u201cI see you in this theater class, memorizing those lines. That\u2019s amazing! Tell me, how do you do that?\u201d The more that you kind of make it part of the conversation, it\u2019s not awkward and weird. I didn\u2019t know that parents just did the one-time until we had our girls. A lot of parents would take their daughters away in fifth grade, and go for a weekend away, and have \u201cthe talk.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat are you doing? That\u2019s so awkward!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re thinking, \u201cWe have the talk every day.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014and it\u2019s late!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Well, yes; <em>fifth grade<\/em>! I\u2019m like, \u201cThey already know!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The average age of porn exposure is ten; right? You need to be talking about body image, sexual abuse prevention, sexuality by <em>ten<\/em>; and hopefully, before\u2014because they\u2019re not just hearing about the topic\u2014they\u2019re seeing really graphic images at <em>ten<\/em>!\u2014ten point one was the last stat that I saw. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you were talking about the conversations, I remember my dad telling me, \u201cYou can talk to me about <em>anything!<\/em> I love you unconditionally.\u201d I actually heard the word first from him. I didn\u2019t even know what the word meant, and I asked him. He\u2019s like, \u201cAll the time, no matter what, you can talk to me about <em>anything.<\/em>\u201d He said that so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen finally, it was probably a few years later, I remember thinking, \u201cWe\u2019ll see if he\u2019s true on this one.\u201d I went to him, and I was like, \u201cHey, Dad! I\u2019ve got to talk to you about something. You know how you said we could talk about anything?\u201d He said, \u201cYes.\u201d I was like, \u201cWell, here we go!\u201d It was normal for him. He normalized\u2014like I had <em>shame<\/em>\u2014and when I talked to him, and the way he responded was like, \u201cWell, let\u2019s talk about it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOh, yes, I remember him saying, \u201cI know what that feels like.\u201d Just, literally, all I needed was for my dad to be like, \u201cI know what that feels like\u201d; and it was like <em>gone<\/em>, like he carried the burden; took it away. Parents, that\u2019s a really powerful thing that parents can do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what do you say to the parent, who\u2019s not like your dad\u2014who\u2019s afraid; the mom or the dad\u2014that: \u201cMan, it\u2019s just a scary thing; I don\u2019t talk to anybody else about this!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And they have their <em>own<\/em> brokenness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cI\u2019m not going to talk to my kids, because I wouldn\u2019t know how to do it.\u201d Maybe: \u201cI\u2019m just too afraid.\u201d How would you coach them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> A few things: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe <em>first<\/em> thing I would say is: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cYou might be hurting,\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t want to assume that they are\u2014\u201cBut you might be hurting. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tI think: \u201cWhat would be a wise way to address that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cDo you need to talk to your spouse, or your pastor, a counselor? Maybe there\u2019s pain there that should be addressed.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you go in hot, like, \u201cTry not to screw this up with your kid!\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s a burden that will crush them!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I mean, most parents already feel like failures in regard to parenting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cWe already feel like that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> What I don\u2019t want to do is put a brick in their backpack first; so I want to say:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cWas there a reason that is happening? Was that modeled to you by your parents, that they didn\u2019t do this?\u201d \u201cHow did that work for you? Did you like that, or do you wish they would have been more open?\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tBe thoughtful about yourself; be caring. And then, I would say: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cThis is a <em>great <\/em>opportunity. If you do have pain, you can help steer it in a different direction; you can model it differently to your kids. It doesn\u2019t have to be like this! This can be a moment that God\u2019s going to heal\u2014and give you hope and healing\u2014and then you get to [help your kids].\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s my parents\u2019 story: my parents were abused as kids, like <em>horrible<\/em> stuff! They just determined, \u201cWe\u2019re going to be different!\u201d It\u2019s <em>staggering<\/em> when you see what they are like, as parents, and what their childhood was like. That\u2019s what God does! He brings life out of <em>death<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> He can look at your story of suffering, and the effects of you feeling awkward about this\u2014being emotionally shutdown and being shamed\u2014and He can transform that. That\u2019s what He does; He\u2019s in the business of that. He <em>loves <\/em>doing that kind of stuff! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo that question is: \u201cThat\u2019s what God does!\u201d Go to Him and ask: \u201cTransform me. Teach me; lead me,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cTake away the voice of condemnation. Remind me who I am.\u201d Just all the gospel promises that are there; just bathe in it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was going to say, Justin. I think, to even evaluate your self-talk\/what you\u2019re saying to yourself continually. I know, when I was in my 30s\u2014I can\u2019t remember the book that I was reading\u2014but it had us write down the things that you\u2019re saying to yourself. I remember looking at this list, and they were all negative:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cYou\u2019re not enough,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re failing,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re ugly,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not a good mom\u201d; you know? And I was like, \u201cWait!! This is the self-talk that\u2019s going in my head all day!\u201d It is <em>opposite<\/em> of what God would say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t even know that, actually; because I didn\u2019t know God well enough to know that He\u2019s a God who speaks life. We are image-bearers, and He delights in us. I think to even talk about that with other people is so healthy and good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m also thinking\u2014I remember when I was eight\u2014and I was dealing with my own sexual abuse. I remember feeling <em>so alone; <\/em>no one to talk to\u2014feeling so bad about myself: unworthy\/full of shame\u2014and I had nowhere to go! I think, as parents, if we can just <em>open <\/em>those doors\u2014a little crack of just what you said, Justin: \u201cI know what that feels like!\u201d or \u201cHow are you doing? I remember being eight, and that was a hard time for me,\u201d\u2014just open the doors to our kids\u2019 lives, letting them walk in; or really, we walk to them. I think those are just great <em>first<\/em> steps. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverything you guys talk about is <em>relationship<\/em>: building that relationship with our kids, where the door is open; we\u2019re in constant communication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m sitting here, wondering, \u201cWhat it\u2019s like right now at the Holcomb dinner table?\u201d You\u2019ve got two daughters; at 11 and 13 years old, they\u2019re walking right into a pivotal time in their life. So coach: \u201cI mean, what\u2019s it like at your dinner table?\u201d Part of me thinks Lindsey brings this stuff up every night; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> They\u2019re like: \u201cIt\u2019s a war zone out there, Mom! [Laughter] I was in middle school\u2026\u201d We watch <em>Survivor <\/em>with them, and so they\u2019ll quote some things of <em>Survivor<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut just going back to one thing we said; and then, we can talk about the dinner table. Encouraging parents\u2014you know, we do swim safety with our kids; we have them: \u201cEverybody buckle up properly\u201d; we talk about driving safety and crossing the road safety\u2014\u201cThis is just another piece of that, whether it\u2019s talking about body safety or, like you said, checking in with them and just asking questions.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that removes the burden of: \u201cI\u2019ve got to have this huge speech,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019ve got to have this big conversation.\u201d Ask questions! Ask questions about who they\u2019re sitting with at lunch. You\u2019ll get insight into how they\u2019re doing. Just be ready to listen, but treat it like this is just as important as is teaching them to swim and teaching them those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the dinner table, we\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Let\u2019s be honest! [Laughter] No; don\u2019t be <em>super <\/em>honest, because I\u2019ll look bad. [Laughter] There\u2019s a lot of laughing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u2014a lot of laughing, but there is crying too. I mean, it just depends on the day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Not a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> It depends\u2014like yesterday, there was crying from our seventh grader in middle school; she\u2019s just feeling lonely\u2014and I was able to say to her, \u201cI get it! I\u2019ve had some women, you know, in our 40s, who just turn on you quickly; there\u2019s no rhyme or reason.\u201d She\u2019s experiencing some of that; so I was able to say, \u201cI understand; I get it. Do you want to brainstorm? Or do you want me to just hug you, and let\u2019s just cry it out?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is a <em>great <\/em>question. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u201cWhere are you at?\u201d; you know. And we kind of usually give them a good 12\/24 hours, like, \u201cYou can cry and be bummed! And then we\u2019re going to move from there. We\u2019re not going to just stay there, but we\u2019re going to make a plan and move from there.\u201d But she wasn\u2019t ready; she needed just to cry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do kind of the \u201cbrownie, frownie\u201d of the day; and that gives us insight into how everybody\u2019s doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>huge<\/em>!!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; talk about what that is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The \u201cbrownie, frownie?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because we did that, but we didn\u2019t call it that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u201cWhat\u2019s your high or low?\u201d\u2014brownie\/frownie\u2014somebody came up with this year; I think that was the younger one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Let me jump in\u2014because the reason I said, \u201cLet\u2019s be honest,\u201d\u2014because, if we write books like this, most people listening think we sit around talking about, you know: \u201cWhat are your proper names to your private parts?\u201d [Laughter] \u201cDo you know you\u2019re an image of God?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do those conversations, but what\u2019s most powerful about our dinner time is that there\u2019s <em>real<\/em> honesty. We tell stories about our day. Sometimes, they\u2019re good; sometimes, they\u2019re not good. I\u2019ll talk about, you know, things that happen. Sometimes, I\u2019m thrilled; sometimes, I\u2019m <em>not<\/em>. Honesty is the <em>key<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Lindsey started doing the \u201cbrownie\/frownie\u201d thing: like that\u2019s an easy way! Suddenly, if someone\/they need to talk, they\u2019ll let you know. The vibe at the table of honesty, laughter, and crying is the best; I mean, I am <em>home <\/em>for dinner!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We did that as well. We would have\u2014because we had sons\u2014we had them put a feeling word with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Ooh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Oh, I like that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When they get married, I want them to be able to tell their wives what they <em>feel<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was difficult as <em>little<\/em> boys. You know, like, \u201cI was <em>angry<\/em>!\u201d or \u201cHow was your day?\u201d\u2014\u201cFine\u201d; you know? So getting them to express: \u201cWhat did you <em>feel <\/em>about your day?\u201d\u2014and put a feeling word with it. Those are my favorite parenting moments; because you really get to know your kids, and their fears, and their joys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is what you do in all of your books: is you bring Jesus\/you bring God into it. Because it's the image: \u201cYou\u2019re made in the image of God\u201d; so bringing God into it. I remember our kids saying, \u201c<em>Mom! <\/em>I know <em>you <\/em>love me, and I know <em>God <\/em>loves me! But you know, sometimes, I feel like <em>nobody else<\/em> loves me!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The honesty of that is brilliant to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I haven\u2019t thought about this before, but one of my pastor friends has talked to me about, when he\u2019s preaching, he does story-emotion-desire; like: \u201cWhat are the facts?\u201d \u201cHow do you feel about it?\u201d and \u201cWhat do you want God to do about it?\u201d\u2014you know, your desire.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> He said, \u201cWhen I\u2019m listening to my kids\u201d\u2014and I\u2019m just passing this on; and this is what happens naturally, mostly because of Lindsey; but I\u2019m aware of it, too, at our dinner table:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tSometimes, you\u2019ll hear a story and the emotion. The question I have is: \u201cOkay, what\u2019s the prayer out of that?\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tOr sometimes, you hear the desire and the story; but like, \u201cWhat\u2019s the emotion?\u201d That\u2019s the question you ask: \u201cGive me a feeling word.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tOr they\u2019ll be communicating what they <em>want<\/em> with emotion, \u201cBut what\u2019s the story that happened behind it?\u201d\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tI think having parents listening to their children through: \u201cWhat\u2019s the story?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s the emotion?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s the desire?\u201d and seeing what piece might be missing; because that gives you a question. As soon as you said, \u201cWhat\u2019s the feeling?\u201d I thought, \u201cThat sounds familiar! It sounds like my pastor buddy.\u201d There\u2019s a power in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> And when you were talking about identity\u2014about the negative self-talk\u2014I just want to go back to that. Because the words in the Bible that are used for us\u2014I mean, \u201cimage of God\u201d is really impressive, and that\u2019s for everyone\u2014that\u2019s men, women, Christians, non-Christians; every human is an image of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you\u2019re in Christ, the words that are used if you\u2019re in Christ are berserk! They\u2019re crazy! They\u2019re mind-blowing!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Go through it, Justin. Remind all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u201cRighteous\u201d: \u201cYou\u2019re the righteousness of God.\u201d \u201cPure\u201d?!\u2014like that\u2019s not a word I\u2019m picking for myself\u2014like, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m smart. I\u2019m a pretty good husband and dad. I\u2019m a good teacher.\u201d I\u2019ll come up with some really neat compliments. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cPure, perfect, holy, righteous, without spot blemish or wrinkle\u201d: I\u2019m not going to make those up about myself; but that\u2019s what the Apostle Paul\/he says, \u201cIf you\u2019re in Christ, [you\u2019re] pure, perfect, and righteous.\u201d That\u2019s what people need to hear. I mean, <em>regardless<\/em> of their story\u2014whether they\u2019ve sinned or been sinned against\u2014those are the words people need.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo that negative self-talk\u2014I mean, talk about that\u2014I mean, \u201cIf you don\u2019t have that\/if you don\u2019t have the gospel, the <em>best <\/em>you can come up with is to <em>counter<\/em> the negative self-talk that you have. You\u2019re going to come up with something that\u2019s an equal, like, \u2018I\u2019m damaged goods,\u2019 \u2014\u2018No, you\u2019re not.\u2019 \u2018[I\u2019m] stupid,\u2019 \u2014\u2018No, you\u2019re smart,\u2019 \u2018[I\u2019m] ugly,\u2019\u2014\u2018No, you\u2019re beautiful.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, when you can realize it\u2019s <em>way<\/em> better\u2014pure, perfect, righteous, and holy in Christ\u2014and it\u2019s not coming from you, but it\u2019s coming from the Creator and Redeemer, then it has authority behind it. That has some staying power right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And if there\u2019s <em>anything<\/em> I\u2019ve learned from you\u2014and I\u2019ve learned a lot in these two programs\u2014one of them is <em>huge<\/em>. It\u2019s what you just said: that \u201cWhatever we, as parents, are saying, and dealing with, and believing is passed on. If I\u2019m obsessed with my body every single day, I shouldn\u2019t be shocked when my daughter or son starts saying the same kind of things. But if I\u2019m understanding my <em>imago Dei<\/em>\u201d\u2014the image of God: I am literally righteous; I\u2019m pure in Christ\u2014\u201cand that\u2019s how I live, that will be passed [on].\u201d I\u2019ve got to be very careful what I\u2019m inputting, and watching what I output; because it <em>will <\/em>pass on to my kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So parents, you\u2019re going to want to pick this book up for your kids but, also, for yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>God Made Me in His Image. <\/em>Thanks, you guys!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson talking with Justin and Lindsey Holcomb on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019d love to send you a copy of their children\u2019s book, <em>God Made Me in His Image<\/em>, when you make a donation of any amount this week at\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLifeToday.com. You can do that online or when you give us a call, with your donation, at 1-800-358-6329. You can make that a one-time gift or a recurring, monthly gift as well. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you know anyone who could benefit from today\u2019s conversation, you can share this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And while you\u2019re there, it would really help us out if you could rate and review us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019ll hear from musician and author, Andrew Peterson, on what the resurrection of Christ means for us as we go through both good times and bad. Of course, that\u2019s applicable since Easter is coming up this Sunday. We hope you can join us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:22"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.15M"],"filesize_raw":["25319012"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307471.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307471.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776578615;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Real (\u2026occasionally awkward) conversations about body image vitally protect our kids. Authors Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb explain these critical conversations.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The first audience who would have read Genesis\u2014they would have read this and been <em>blown away<\/em>\/dazzled that this phrase would have been used\u2014that they are a representative of some sort that reflects Yahweh, the \u201cI am who I am\u201d? Like: \u201cThat God?\u2014the One who <em>redeemed<\/em> us?\u2014the One who kicked the butts of the Egyptian gods in the plagues and then took us through the Red Sea?\u2014<em>that<\/em> God?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So you\u2019ve been coaching boys and young men for years and years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of my joys in life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; do you see anything different\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because I love football so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you do, actually. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, actually\u2014it isn\u2019t because of football\u2014it\u2019s developing boys into men; that\u2019s what coaching\u2019s all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve been doing it, ages,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014from five years old to eighteen years old.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; basically, to be with my boys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And has it changed in terms of how boys feel about themselves?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; one of the things that I was shocked at, when I was coaching middle school basketball, was\u2014when I played middle school basketball, if you wanted to have a scrimmage, you just said, \u201cHey, you guys take your shirts off. You guys are shirts and skins,\u201d\u2014I remember saying that; this is probably 20 years ago\u2014\u201cHey, let\u2019s go shirts and skins.\u201d And they looked at me, like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cJust take your shirts off; we don\u2019t have different colored jerseys.\u201d And the boys <em>refused <\/em>to take off their shirts. I said, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on here?\u201d I was just na\u00efve. They were like, \u201cWe are <em>not <\/em>taking off our shirts. I do not want another person to see my body without a shirt on.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014body.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And it hit me, right there in the gym, like: \u201cOh, my goodness! They don\u2019t feel good about their body, and they\u2019re not going to let anybody\u2026\u201d And I\u2019m not saying we did it back in the day, and it was right or wrong; I just didn\u2019t realize it was that big of a deal, but it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I went home that night, I remember thinking, as a dad with three sons, how we teach\/how we talk about body\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014not just the spiritual part; because we always think, \u201cOh, it\u2019s only spiritual,\u201d\u2014no; it\u2019s wholistic. It\u2019s <em>really big<\/em> how we, as parents, guide our kids in understanding their bodies. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got two experts with us. [Laughter] They\u2019re experts because they\u2019re parents!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But they\u2019re also experts because they\u2019ve written a book on this. Justin and Lindsey Holcomb are back with us again, back on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Thank you! Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It is <em>always <\/em>good to talk about this, especially with people who are <em>fun<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Fun?! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know about fun!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, Justin and Lindsey are back. You\u2019ve written a couple of books, but the one we\u2019re going to talk about today is <em>God Made Me in His Image: Helping Children Appreciate Their Bodies. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting\u2014your qualifications for this book, really, are being parents\u2014but obviously, Justin, you\u2019re a seminary prof at RTS, right here in Orlando. Am I right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been teaching there for 21 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and an Episcopalian priest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLindsey, you used to be a first-grade teacher. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you do that anymore?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I dabbled in that for a little bit. I\u2019ve kind of done a little bit of everything. I forgot about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, when I looked at your bio, it looked like you have 12 jobs; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Justin, I don\u2019t know about you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Both of them! No, he has had a bunch of jobs too!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> He does that, too; we like to keep busy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut yes, I\u2019ve been doing mostly like victim advocacy work for the last 15\/20 years. A lot of the stories of pain and suffering have given us great motivation for these books to empower and equip parents to then help their children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; well, as I picked up this book\u2014you know, I\u2019ve looked at it\u2014and it\u2019s illustrated so well! You\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, this is a book for children to understand what it means to be made in God\u2019s image.\u201d I want to hear what you have to say about that; but as I read it, I realized: \u201cOh, this is really a book for parents!\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s a little of both, but it\u2019s <em>really <\/em>a book to model, and show, and teach parents: \u201cHow do you talk about this with your kids?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTalk about the title; because it\u2019s like: \u201cGod made me in His image.\u201d How do you explain the image of God to a child?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes; the title\u2014<em>God Made Me in His Image\u2014<\/em>we are going straight from \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 1. We wanted to frame the whole conversation by a doctrine of creation\/a doctrine of humanity in the category in the Christian tradition and the Bible: \u201cHumans are made in God\u2019s image\u201d; and that means something! Every day that God created, God said, \u201cIt is good.\u201d He used the word, <em>tov<\/em>\u2014t-o-v\u2014\u201cgood.\u201d He got to humans on day six and said, \u201cHumans, they\u2019re good, good,\u201d\u2014<em>tov<\/em>, <em>tov<\/em>\u2014very\/like, \u201cThis is special work, the crown jewel of creation.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the image of God means that we <em>reflect<\/em> God in a special way like <em>nothing<\/em> else in creation. But there\u2019s really something\u2014I wanted the <em>imago <\/em>Dei: is the theological way of talking about the image of God\u2014is actually a tool for parents on this topic. Because the image of God\u2014if you look at the history: so if Moses writes Genesis, he\u2019s writing Genesis to a bunch of people, who were slaves in Egypt; and in Egypt, they knew that the pharaoh\/the king\u2014and this is common in the Ancient Near East\u2014they had such a large domain that they couldn\u2019t be everywhere all the time to show their authority and their force, so they would make a statue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, when Moses is writing, \u201cHumans are created in God\u2019s image,\u201d\u2014inspired by God to write this\u2014you know, all the doctrine in Scripture is all in order. So God inspires Moses to write: \u201cYou are made in God\u2019s image.\u201d There\u2019s a little bit of humility\u2014because you\u2019re only an image of God\u2014but there\u2019s <em>a lot<\/em> of dignity: \u201cYou\u2019re an image of <em>God!\u201d <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first audience who would have read Genesis\u2014they would have read this and been <em>blown away<\/em>\/dazzled that this phrase would have been used\u2014that <em>they<\/em> are a representative of some sort that reflects Yahweh, the \u201cI am who I am\u201d; like, \u201cThat God?\u2014the One who <em>redeemed<\/em> us?\u2014the One who kicked the butts of the Egyptian gods in the plagues and then took us through the Red Sea?\u2014<em>that<\/em> God?! We\u2019re an image of that God?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo to be able to take <em>that<\/em>\u2014we actually have a page where we explain that\u2014and give that as a tool to parents to be like: \u201cLet me tell you who you are. You\u2019re not just a great quarterback on your team,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not just a great volleyball player,\u201d or \u201cYou\u2019re not just beautiful,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not just\u2026\u201d\u2014whatever accolade we give them\u2014the <em>top<\/em> identity is: \u201cYou reflect God in a way that <em>nothing<\/em> else in creation can do that.\u201d That\u2019s some dignity; that needs to be repeated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe wanted to\/I think that\u2019s a good tool to give parents and let them explain it\u2014let them unpack that a little bit and apply it how they need to\u2014as they know their kid better than anyone else in the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Lindsey, did you ever struggle with that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I did; mine wasn\u2019t when I was ten. I know some of the stats are 80 percent of ten-year-olds have started dieting, at least, once in their life. I don\u2019t have a strong memory of that, but mine was in high school. This was before social media was a big thing. I can imagine\u2014back then, if social media had been as prevalent\u2014it would have been earlier, like we\u2019re seeing with youth now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMine was in high school. I was dating a guy who was not wonderful, and I think that played into it a lot. I was living in Latin America, where it\u2019s an over-sexualized culture; it was just in your face all the time. I struggled with an eating disorder in high school and a little bit into college. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo now, as we were researching and seeing the statistics that it\u2019s earlier and earlier that girls <em>and boys <\/em>are starting to have these conversations and questions about their bodies and their size, I think it\u2019s even more shocking; because of all that they\u2019re seeing, whether it\u2019s on video games, on social media, in print. They\u2019re just inundated with it constantly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJustin and I decided\/we were like, \u201cWe need to equip parents to have these conversations,\u201d\u2014whether it\u2019s little conversations at dinner or just by reading this book\u2014\u201cHow can we give them a foundation to launch from to then have more, hopefully, as things come up?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> This is across the board for parenting: about sex, about body image, about how to protect your body from sneaky people. Those have to be frequent, well-trod paths of conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And when should that start, you guys?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Oh, two\u2014one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> From the beginning!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> The beginning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really early! And you talk about: \u201cIt\u2019s not just one time\u201d; there are these little pockets, where you\u2019re instilling and asking questions all along the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019ve got to talk about that, because so many Christian parents think even the topic of sex with our kids is: \u201cA one and done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, the birds and the bees at age 11\/12, or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or even predators. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so what does it look like to continue that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It is <em>all the time<\/em>! I mean, honestly, when our girls were babies, Lindsey, changing their diaper, would just be talking to them. Actually, just made it normal to talk about proper names for body parts. Of course, she was doing that just to make it normal\/to set the tone. But also, she was shaping <em>me<\/em>; because I thought, \u201cWhy are we saying this? This is <em>weird<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] She explained why; and I was like, \u201cOh, that makes a lot of sense! Oh, my goodness; I mean, I would not have thought of this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt makes <em>sense<\/em> that most people just go, \u201cWell\u2026\u201d\u2014about sneaky people\/you know, preventing from sexual abuse; body image; and how babies are made\u2014those are not fun conversations, because parents feel <em>awkward<\/em>. But those are <em>really important<\/em> conversations. All the more reason to have, not just \u201cthe talk,\u201d but have <em>numerous<\/em> talks. That\u2019s what Lindsey just kind of modeled to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo to start the conversation\u2014maybe this is a tool for it\u2014don\u2019t have <em>one <\/em>conversation about this; this is just sprinkled throughout your conversations. Be <em>aware<\/em> of this topic and be sensitive to it. Have your eyes open for it; be <em>looking<\/em> for an opportunity. You might not have an open door for a month or two; you might have one as soon as you even get <em>close<\/em> to the subject.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Here\u2019s the thing\u2014if you\u2019re not talking to your kids\u2014two things: somebody else is; and they\u2019re going to hear things at school from their peers; they\u2019re going to hear things from media. So you want to make sure you\u2019re checking in and kind of giving them another perspective\u2014whether you\u2019re watching a show, or you hear something, or it\u2019s at the dinner table\u2014you want to be just another message of truth, of dignity, of honesty; so that, if something happens\u2014I\u2019m talking whether it\u2019s something that\u2019s sexually inappropriate; sexual assault; or if they\u2019re called something at school\u2014\u201c\u2026fat,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re gross,\u201d\u2014whatever the word may be\u2014they will understand, \u201cHey, this is something my parents talk about and understand. I can go and talk with them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhereas, if you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> ever have a conversation, they\u2019re not going to talk to you; because they\u2019re going to think, \u201cMy parent doesn\u2019t know anything about this; I\u2019m going to freak them out!\u201d \u201cThey\u2019re not equipped; they won\u2019t know what to do. So I\u2019m just going to stuff it,\u201d or \u201c\u2026go talk to my girlfriend,\u201d\u2014who won\u2019t know what to say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the more you just kind of weave it throughout, whether it\u2019s talking about predators and sneaky people, or talking about: \u201cHey, your body is <em>strong<\/em> and <em>amazing <\/em>what you just did out there on that athletic field,\u201d or \u201cI see you in this theater class, memorizing those lines. That\u2019s amazing! Tell me, how do you do that?\u201d The more that you kind of make it part of the conversation, it\u2019s not awkward and weird. I didn\u2019t know that parents just did the one-time until we had our girls. A lot of parents would take their daughters away in fifth grade, and go for a weekend away, and have \u201cthe talk.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat are you doing? That\u2019s so awkward!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re thinking, \u201cWe have the talk every day.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014and it\u2019s late!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Well, yes; <em>fifth grade<\/em>! I\u2019m like, \u201cThey already know!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The average age of porn exposure is ten; right? You need to be talking about body image, sexual abuse prevention, sexuality by <em>ten<\/em>; and hopefully, before\u2014because they\u2019re not just hearing about the topic\u2014they\u2019re seeing really graphic images at <em>ten<\/em>!\u2014ten point one was the last stat that I saw. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you were talking about the conversations, I remember my dad telling me, \u201cYou can talk to me about <em>anything!<\/em> I love you unconditionally.\u201d I actually heard the word first from him. I didn\u2019t even know what the word meant, and I asked him. He\u2019s like, \u201cAll the time, no matter what, you can talk to me about <em>anything.<\/em>\u201d He said that so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen finally, it was probably a few years later, I remember thinking, \u201cWe\u2019ll see if he\u2019s true on this one.\u201d I went to him, and I was like, \u201cHey, Dad! I\u2019ve got to talk to you about something. You know how you said we could talk about anything?\u201d He said, \u201cYes.\u201d I was like, \u201cWell, here we go!\u201d It was normal for him. He normalized\u2014like I had <em>shame<\/em>\u2014and when I talked to him, and the way he responded was like, \u201cWell, let\u2019s talk about it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOh, yes, I remember him saying, \u201cI know what that feels like.\u201d Just, literally, all I needed was for my dad to be like, \u201cI know what that feels like\u201d; and it was like <em>gone<\/em>, like he carried the burden; took it away. Parents, that\u2019s a really powerful thing that parents can do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what do you say to the parent, who\u2019s not like your dad\u2014who\u2019s afraid; the mom or the dad\u2014that: \u201cMan, it\u2019s just a scary thing; I don\u2019t talk to anybody else about this!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And they have their <em>own<\/em> brokenness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cI\u2019m not going to talk to my kids, because I wouldn\u2019t know how to do it.\u201d Maybe: \u201cI\u2019m just too afraid.\u201d How would you coach them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> A few things: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe <em>first<\/em> thing I would say is: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cYou might be hurting,\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t want to assume that they are\u2014\u201cBut you might be hurting. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tI think: \u201cWhat would be a wise way to address that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cDo you need to talk to your spouse, or your pastor, a counselor? Maybe there\u2019s pain there that should be addressed.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you go in hot, like, \u201cTry not to screw this up with your kid!\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s a burden that will crush them!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I mean, most parents already feel like failures in regard to parenting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cWe already feel like that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> What I don\u2019t want to do is put a brick in their backpack first; so I want to say:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cWas there a reason that is happening? Was that modeled to you by your parents, that they didn\u2019t do this?\u201d \u201cHow did that work for you? Did you like that, or do you wish they would have been more open?\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tBe thoughtful about yourself; be caring. And then, I would say: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cThis is a <em>great <\/em>opportunity. If you do have pain, you can help steer it in a different direction; you can model it differently to your kids. It doesn\u2019t have to be like this! This can be a moment that God\u2019s going to heal\u2014and give you hope and healing\u2014and then you get to [help your kids].\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s my parents\u2019 story: my parents were abused as kids, like <em>horrible<\/em> stuff! They just determined, \u201cWe\u2019re going to be different!\u201d It\u2019s <em>staggering<\/em> when you see what they are like, as parents, and what their childhood was like. That\u2019s what God does! He brings life out of <em>death<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> He can look at your story of suffering, and the effects of you feeling awkward about this\u2014being emotionally shutdown and being shamed\u2014and He can transform that. That\u2019s what He does; He\u2019s in the business of that. He <em>loves <\/em>doing that kind of stuff! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo that question is: \u201cThat\u2019s what God does!\u201d Go to Him and ask: \u201cTransform me. Teach me; lead me,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cTake away the voice of condemnation. Remind me who I am.\u201d Just all the gospel promises that are there; just bathe in it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was going to say, Justin. I think, to even evaluate your self-talk\/what you\u2019re saying to yourself continually. I know, when I was in my 30s\u2014I can\u2019t remember the book that I was reading\u2014but it had us write down the things that you\u2019re saying to yourself. I remember looking at this list, and they were all negative:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cYou\u2019re not enough,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re failing,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re ugly,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not a good mom\u201d; you know? And I was like, \u201cWait!! This is the self-talk that\u2019s going in my head all day!\u201d It is <em>opposite<\/em> of what God would say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t even know that, actually; because I didn\u2019t know God well enough to know that He\u2019s a God who speaks life. We are image-bearers, and He delights in us. I think to even talk about that with other people is so healthy and good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m also thinking\u2014I remember when I was eight\u2014and I was dealing with my own sexual abuse. I remember feeling <em>so alone; <\/em>no one to talk to\u2014feeling so bad about myself: unworthy\/full of shame\u2014and I had nowhere to go! I think, as parents, if we can just <em>open <\/em>those doors\u2014a little crack of just what you said, Justin: \u201cI know what that feels like!\u201d or \u201cHow are you doing? I remember being eight, and that was a hard time for me,\u201d\u2014just open the doors to our kids\u2019 lives, letting them walk in; or really, we walk to them. I think those are just great <em>first<\/em> steps. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverything you guys talk about is <em>relationship<\/em>: building that relationship with our kids, where the door is open; we\u2019re in constant communication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m sitting here, wondering, \u201cWhat it\u2019s like right now at the Holcomb dinner table?\u201d You\u2019ve got two daughters; at 11 and 13 years old, they\u2019re walking right into a pivotal time in their life. So coach: \u201cI mean, what\u2019s it like at your dinner table?\u201d Part of me thinks Lindsey brings this stuff up every night; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> They\u2019re like: \u201cIt\u2019s a war zone out there, Mom! [Laughter] I was in middle school\u2026\u201d We watch <em>Survivor <\/em>with them, and so they\u2019ll quote some things of <em>Survivor<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut just going back to one thing we said; and then, we can talk about the dinner table. Encouraging parents\u2014you know, we do swim safety with our kids; we have them: \u201cEverybody buckle up properly\u201d; we talk about driving safety and crossing the road safety\u2014\u201cThis is just another piece of that, whether it\u2019s talking about body safety or, like you said, checking in with them and just asking questions.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that removes the burden of: \u201cI\u2019ve got to have this huge speech,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019ve got to have this big conversation.\u201d Ask questions! Ask questions about who they\u2019re sitting with at lunch. You\u2019ll get insight into how they\u2019re doing. Just be ready to listen, but treat it like this is just as important as is teaching them to swim and teaching them those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the dinner table, we\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Let\u2019s be honest! [Laughter] No; don\u2019t be <em>super <\/em>honest, because I\u2019ll look bad. [Laughter] There\u2019s a lot of laughing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u2014a lot of laughing, but there is crying too. I mean, it just depends on the day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Not a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> It depends\u2014like yesterday, there was crying from our seventh grader in middle school; she\u2019s just feeling lonely\u2014and I was able to say to her, \u201cI get it! I\u2019ve had some women, you know, in our 40s, who just turn on you quickly; there\u2019s no rhyme or reason.\u201d She\u2019s experiencing some of that; so I was able to say, \u201cI understand; I get it. Do you want to brainstorm? Or do you want me to just hug you, and let\u2019s just cry it out?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is a <em>great <\/em>question. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u201cWhere are you at?\u201d; you know. And we kind of usually give them a good 12\/24 hours, like, \u201cYou can cry and be bummed! And then we\u2019re going to move from there. We\u2019re not going to just stay there, but we\u2019re going to make a plan and move from there.\u201d But she wasn\u2019t ready; she needed just to cry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do kind of the \u201cbrownie, frownie\u201d of the day; and that gives us insight into how everybody\u2019s doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>huge<\/em>!!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; talk about what that is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The \u201cbrownie, frownie?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because we did that, but we didn\u2019t call it that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u201cWhat\u2019s your high or low?\u201d\u2014brownie\/frownie\u2014somebody came up with this year; I think that was the younger one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Let me jump in\u2014because the reason I said, \u201cLet\u2019s be honest,\u201d\u2014because, if we write books like this, most people listening think we sit around talking about, you know: \u201cWhat are your proper names to your private parts?\u201d [Laughter] \u201cDo you know you\u2019re an image of God?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do those conversations, but what\u2019s most powerful about our dinner time is that there\u2019s <em>real<\/em> honesty. We tell stories about our day. Sometimes, they\u2019re good; sometimes, they\u2019re not good. I\u2019ll talk about, you know, things that happen. Sometimes, I\u2019m thrilled; sometimes, I\u2019m <em>not<\/em>. Honesty is the <em>key<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Lindsey started doing the \u201cbrownie\/frownie\u201d thing: like that\u2019s an easy way! Suddenly, if someone\/they need to talk, they\u2019ll let you know. The vibe at the table of honesty, laughter, and crying is the best; I mean, I am <em>home <\/em>for dinner!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We did that as well. We would have\u2014because we had sons\u2014we had them put a feeling word with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Ooh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Oh, I like that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When they get married, I want them to be able to tell their wives what they <em>feel<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was difficult as <em>little<\/em> boys. You know, like, \u201cI was <em>angry<\/em>!\u201d or \u201cHow was your day?\u201d\u2014\u201cFine\u201d; you know? So getting them to express: \u201cWhat did you <em>feel <\/em>about your day?\u201d\u2014and put a feeling word with it. Those are my favorite parenting moments; because you really get to know your kids, and their fears, and their joys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is what you do in all of your books: is you bring Jesus\/you bring God into it. Because it's the image: \u201cYou\u2019re made in the image of God\u201d; so bringing God into it. I remember our kids saying, \u201c<em>Mom! <\/em>I know <em>you <\/em>love me, and I know <em>God <\/em>loves me! But you know, sometimes, I feel like <em>nobody else<\/em> loves me!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The honesty of that is brilliant to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I haven\u2019t thought about this before, but one of my pastor friends has talked to me about, when he\u2019s preaching, he does story-emotion-desire; like: \u201cWhat are the facts?\u201d \u201cHow do you feel about it?\u201d and \u201cWhat do you want God to do about it?\u201d\u2014you know, your desire.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> He said, \u201cWhen I\u2019m listening to my kids\u201d\u2014and I\u2019m just passing this on; and this is what happens naturally, mostly because of Lindsey; but I\u2019m aware of it, too, at our dinner table:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tSometimes, you\u2019ll hear a story and the emotion. The question I have is: \u201cOkay, what\u2019s the prayer out of that?\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tOr sometimes, you hear the desire and the story; but like, \u201cWhat\u2019s the emotion?\u201d That\u2019s the question you ask: \u201cGive me a feeling word.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tOr they\u2019ll be communicating what they <em>want<\/em> with emotion, \u201cBut what\u2019s the story that happened behind it?\u201d\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tI think having parents listening to their children through: \u201cWhat\u2019s the story?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s the emotion?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s the desire?\u201d and seeing what piece might be missing; because that gives you a question. As soon as you said, \u201cWhat\u2019s the feeling?\u201d I thought, \u201cThat sounds familiar! It sounds like my pastor buddy.\u201d There\u2019s a power in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> And when you were talking about identity\u2014about the negative self-talk\u2014I just want to go back to that. Because the words in the Bible that are used for us\u2014I mean, \u201cimage of God\u201d is really impressive, and that\u2019s for everyone\u2014that\u2019s men, women, Christians, non-Christians; every human is an image of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you\u2019re in Christ, the words that are used if you\u2019re in Christ are berserk! They\u2019re crazy! They\u2019re mind-blowing!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Go through it, Justin. Remind all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u201cRighteous\u201d: \u201cYou\u2019re the righteousness of God.\u201d \u201cPure\u201d?!\u2014like that\u2019s not a word I\u2019m picking for myself\u2014like, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m smart. I\u2019m a pretty good husband and dad. I\u2019m a good teacher.\u201d I\u2019ll come up with some really neat compliments. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cPure, perfect, holy, righteous, without spot blemish or wrinkle\u201d: I\u2019m not going to make those up about myself; but that\u2019s what the Apostle Paul\/he says, \u201cIf you\u2019re in Christ, [you\u2019re] pure, perfect, and righteous.\u201d That\u2019s what people need to hear. I mean, <em>regardless<\/em> of their story\u2014whether they\u2019ve sinned or been sinned against\u2014those are the words people need.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo that negative self-talk\u2014I mean, talk about that\u2014I mean, \u201cIf you don\u2019t have that\/if you don\u2019t have the gospel, the <em>best <\/em>you can come up with is to <em>counter<\/em> the negative self-talk that you have. You\u2019re going to come up with something that\u2019s an equal, like, \u2018I\u2019m damaged goods,\u2019 \u2014\u2018No, you\u2019re not.\u2019 \u2018[I\u2019m] stupid,\u2019 \u2014\u2018No, you\u2019re smart,\u2019 \u2018[I\u2019m] ugly,\u2019\u2014\u2018No, you\u2019re beautiful.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, when you can realize it\u2019s <em>way<\/em> better\u2014pure, perfect, righteous, and holy in Christ\u2014and it\u2019s not coming from you, but it\u2019s coming from the Creator and Redeemer, then it has authority behind it. That has some staying power right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And if there\u2019s <em>anything<\/em> I\u2019ve learned from you\u2014and I\u2019ve learned a lot in these two programs\u2014one of them is <em>huge<\/em>. It\u2019s what you just said: that \u201cWhatever we, as parents, are saying, and dealing with, and believing is passed on. If I\u2019m obsessed with my body every single day, I shouldn\u2019t be shocked when my daughter or son starts saying the same kind of things. But if I\u2019m understanding my <em>imago Dei<\/em>\u201d\u2014the image of God: I am literally righteous; I\u2019m pure in Christ\u2014\u201cand that\u2019s how I live, that will be passed [on].\u201d I\u2019ve got to be very careful what I\u2019m inputting, and watching what I output; because it <em>will <\/em>pass on to my kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So parents, you\u2019re going to want to pick this book up for your kids but, also, for yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>God Made Me in His Image. <\/em>Thanks, you guys!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson talking with Justin and Lindsey Holcomb on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019d love to send you a copy of their children\u2019s book, <em>God Made Me in His Image<\/em>, when you make a donation of any amount this week at\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLifeToday.com. You can do that online or when you give us a call, with your donation, at 1-800-358-6329. You can make that a one-time gift or a recurring, monthly gift as well. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you know anyone who could benefit from today\u2019s conversation, you can share this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And while you\u2019re there, it would really help us out if you could rate and review us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019ll hear from musician and author, Andrew Peterson, on what the resurrection of Christ means for us as we go through both good times and bad. Of course, that\u2019s applicable since Easter is coming up this Sunday. We hope you can join us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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