{"id":307469,"date":"2022-04-11T08:03:13","date_gmt":"2022-04-11T12:03:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-need-to-know-truth-for-kids-about-body-image\/"},"modified":"2022-04-11T08:03:13","modified_gmt":"2022-04-11T12:03:13","slug":"justin-lindsey-holcomb-need-to-know-truth-for-kids-about-body-image","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-need-to-know-truth-for-kids-about-body-image\/","title":{"rendered":"Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb: Need-to-Know Truth for Kids about Body Image"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>How can we weave confidence and truth into our kids&#8217; body image? Authors Lindsey &#038; Justin Holcomb offer ideas to help kids embrace the image of God in them.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How can we weave confidence and truth into our kids&#8217; body image? Authors Lindsey &amp; Justin Holcomb offer ideas to help kids embrace the image of God in them.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:40","filesize":"24.42M","filesize_raw":"25606593","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2835,2836],"tags":[7070],"podcast_series":[8515],"cwp_profile":[9768],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307469","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-raising-boys","category-raising-girls","tag-justin-holcomb","podcast_series-god-made-me-in-his-image","cwp_profile-justin-lindsey-holcomb","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307469\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-need-to-know-truth-for-kids-about-body-image","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307469\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-need-to-know-truth-for-kids-about-body-image","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"uduNMWr0Mi\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-need-to-know-truth-for-kids-about-body-image\/\">Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb: Need-to-Know Truth for Kids about Body Image<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/justin-lindsey-holcomb-need-to-know-truth-for-kids-about-body-image\/embed\/#?secret=uduNMWr0Mi\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Justin &amp; Lindsey Holcomb: Need-to-Know Truth for Kids about Body Image&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"uduNMWr0Mi\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I have no problem talking about like complimenting them. If I had a son, I'd: \u201cHey, you're a handsome young man\u201d; or [to a daughter:]\u201cYou\u2019re a beautiful girl.\u201d If that's the first thing, and the main thing, that's the problem. I see it on social media <em>all<\/em> the time: \u201cmy beautiful wife\u201d; \u201cmy beautiful kids\u201d\u2014that's great\u2014but the idea that the only adjective most little girls and boys hear is handsome or beautiful\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014that's heartbreaking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So do you remember how old you were when you first started disliking your body? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What makes you think I dislike my body? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know; I've heard it a thousand times, and\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What are you talking about? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I've heard you talk about\u2014I was shocked, when we first got married, when you started talking about it\u2014but I mean, I'm guessing it started when you were a little girl. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I was probably nine or ten. I used to share a room with my older sister; she's six years older. I didn't know it at the time, but she was bulimic. She has a lot of sexual abuse in her background, as I do; but she would binge eat. We'd have these <em>feasts<\/em> in the middle of the night on our bed. I thought it was <em>amazing<\/em> because we were spending time together. I loved it, not knowing that she was going to get rid of her food by vomiting it all up. I ate it all with her, and so I started gaining weight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I also remember this: I remember thinking, \u201cI can't wait to turn into Barbie\u201d; because I thought, \u201cEvery little girl grows up and she becomes Barbie.\u201d I kept waiting, and waiting, and waiting. [Laughter] And I stayed Barbie's little sister, Skipper, who's little and short and kind of square. I thought, \u201cWhat happened?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember when we started dating. I didn't know who Skipper was; you kept saying, \u201cI'm Skipper.\u201d I'm like, \u201cWho\u2019s Skipper?\u201d And I thought you were gorgeous; I still do. I was <em>shocked<\/em> that you didn't think that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You would get mad at me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I responded really well\u2014yes, I\u2019d get mad and say \u201cYou\/that's stu\u2026\"\u2014and then I realized, \u201cOh my goodness. You really do think [that], and you don't like your body.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But that really shaped me. I think it shapes a lot of us, because a lot of us grow up not liking our bodies. And as parents, that's a difficult place to think, \u201cHow can I get my son or daughter to really appreciate the way God made them?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And as parents, it\u2019s critical that we do our job in teaching them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've got in our studio today a couple, Justin and Lindsey Holcomb, with us that are going to help us out. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Thank you for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s a joy to be here and be with you two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, even as you sit there and listen to Ann talk about her journeys, does that sound pretty similar? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> It does. I mean, I think, as little girls growing up, we think\u2014especially, I'm petite too\u2014we think, \u201cI'm going to be tall, long, and lean.\u201d [Laughter] And back then, I mean, we would see things in the magazines. Now, I think it's even worse for little girls and teens as they're looking at everything in social media; it's just in their face constantly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I think this is an important piece in people's lives, because it influences how they think about themselves. This message is coming from:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tthemselves; so sometimes, children think this about themselves just by looking in the mirror and kind of comparing themselves. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\ttheir parents sometimes communicate by words or actions; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\ttheir peers; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tand then the culture. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tJust telling that story is important because, hopefully, it'll open up adults\u2019 eyes of what kind of pressure kids are under right now about body image. That's a big weight. Kids got enough going on\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014to deal with body image from their culture, their parents, themselves, and their peers\u2014that's a big burden. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so you guys care enough about it that you've written, at least, two books\u2014and there's more to come\u2014about body image. The first one: <em>God Made All of Me: A Book to Help Children Protect Their Bodies<\/em>. And what we're going to talk about today is another book called <em>God Made Me in His Image: Helping Children Appreciate Their Bodies<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to ask this, Justin, you're an Episcopalian priest with a PhD; never had that on our program before. [Laughter] Seriously, that is <em>powerful<\/em>. I grew up in a Episcopalian church. My little brother died when I when I was seven; he was five-and-a-half. Reverend Ashton, the priest at that parish, literally was, in a sense, God to us. He represented the heart of God as he walked us through it, so I have a real tender spot in my heart for your church and what you do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Lindsey, you\u2019re an advocate for sexual abuse survivors. Talk about that a little bit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> For the past 20 years, I've been working with victims of domestic violence, sexual abuse, sex trafficking\u2014either as a consultant or boots on the ground\u2014there at the safe house. It has been a tremendous honor to come alongside victims. They've taught me a lot. I\u2019ve worked in women's maximum-security prisons, where they've just shared their story; and out of that\u2014out of hearing that darkness of abuse, and betrayal, and not being dignified\u2014has really propelled us both to speak out for victims: \u201cHow can we share the good news that this is not the end of your story?\u201d and \u201cHow can we equip parents to come alongside their children so that they can help empower and prevent but, also, intercede if something does happen?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> When we met, she was a case manager for a domestic violence shelter while we were dating; and then right after we got married, she was the case manager for a sexual assault crisis center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> One time at dinner when we were dating, you said something like, \u201cWell, don't they do training on this for pastors?\u201d I said, \u201cNot, not much.\u201d That's where the ministry she had at the women's federal prison is where one of our books came from. She was teaching a Bible study to a bunch of women in maximum-security prison. So thanks for dragging me along, hon. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It's really cool though. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> But there's been a lot of great changes at, well, the seminary where Justin teaches. Now, they're doing courses on this that Justin\u2019s teaching. I've come in and kind of helped out a little bit. So that's promising\/that's huge\u2014the number of pastors and those that are serving in ministry that are getting equipped\u2014I think there's been a lot of change in the last three or four years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Our real credibility: we have kids. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> They are 11 and 13; so really, in the midst of it all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and so obviously, as a parent and as a seminary prof\u2014and you've worked with a lot of people in ministry\u2014why did you decide: \u201cWe need to write something to help parents teach body image in a godly way for kids\u201d? What was the angst behind that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> There are <em>two<\/em> things. One was knowing how many Christian leaders\/pastors don't talk about the body at all or really well; there's not much material out there:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tA lot of Christians think that like the afterlife is: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be a disembodied soul, floating around in heaven.\u201d We're going to have resurrected bodies, and that's actually surprising to a lot of Christians. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so that one: it\u2019s more of the theological ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tThe other piece was just the statistics on the issue of body image. Basically, we've kind of decided we're going to write children's books on difficult issues: the first one was child sexual abuse prevention; this one on body image. So trying to find the pain points, where parents feel a burden of they're looking at their kid\/they're hearing their kid talk about themselves\u2014or their watching some of their behavior\u2014and they're thinking, \u201cWhat do I do?\u201d We're trying to create resources; and just realizing, statistically, that like 80 percent of girls diet by the time they're like <em>10<\/em>. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, you have to stop right there. I read that in the last couple pages of your book. We're reading your book\u2014and obviously, it's written for children, and parents to walk through with children\u2014but you get to the end, and you sort of talk to the parents. I'm like, \u201cWait a minute! Ten-year-old girls have already started dieting.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes, 80 percent of girls at 10 have done some type of food restriction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We've got two women in the studio: \u201cDid both of you do that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was a gymnast\u2014I started at <em>eight<\/em>\u2014so around the age of ten is when they started talking about that. Then later, I was in seminary\u2014I was only 21\u2014and I was teaching at an Athletic Club, doing classes; and we had to have our body fat measured once a month. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I don't know if I thought about it when I was ten; but I remember probably reading all those teen magazines, and seeing things; and like it would be in my head. But then I developed an eating disorder in high school; I was anorexic. But the thing for me is nobody ever talked about it. Stuff in my family just wasn't discussed; we didn't really talk about hard topics. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's one thing Justin and I have thought: \u201cWe have an opportunity, as parents\u2014and an obligation\u2014to talk about these things, little bits at a time.\u201d I think people assume like, \u201cOh, the Holcomb\u2019s are always talking about dark topics,\u201d\u2014like the real Debbie Downers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, with these conversations, it needs to be just woven throughout in little bits; so it was: \u201cHow can we equip parents?\u201d\u2014because a lot of our friends just weren't having the conversation because they didn't want to mess it up. They didn't know how to even start: \u201cWhat do I talk about? What do I not?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo really, with this book, it was: \u201cHow can we kind of lay a foundation to start the conversation?\u201d\u2014because parents are the best solution. But also, as we can talk about, moms are one of the biggest problems; and so: \u201cHow can we bring those two together in a really healthy, empowering way?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, with the stats Justin was starting to get into: \u201cBy age five or six, most girls especially, are starting to express concerns about their weight, size, shape.\u201d So we need parents to start reading this book with their three-, four-, five-year-olds, if possible, to kind of start the conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The one that really broke my heart is: \u201cA at age ten, one-third\u2014so 33 percent of girls and 25 percent of boys\u2014say that their number-one concern is their body image. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> But that's the <em>top<\/em> concern. We looked at that and thought, \u201cWell, the Bible has something to say about this. The Christian tradition has something to say about this,\u201d and \u201cThere's some wisdom\u2014 that's not technically\/specifically, Christian\u2014that people need to hear.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe wanted to frame the conversation about body image, because too often that conversation gets co-opted by the patterns of this world. We wanted to frame it with: \u201cWhat does the Bible say about this?\u201d \u201cWhat does God say about you?\u2014about the doctrine of creation, being made in the image of God,\u201d and \u201cHow do you apply that to a child, thinking about their own body?\u201d\u2014and try to thread that needle. And part of this is hoping that some of the parents will take it to heart, too; because they need this book as much as the kids do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Elaborate on that. What do you mean the parents need it?\u2014for their <em>own<\/em> body or are you saying as parents for their kids? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014for themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I think there's a lot of people living with that same pressure from themselves, from their peers, from their culture. Many people have been bestowed an identity when they were young; but even still today, it\u2019s reinforced that their worth is connected to their appearance; and it's reinforced <em>all the time<\/em>. I mean, what do parents say about their little boys?\u2014\u201cHe's a little stud,\u201d or [about a daughter]: \u201cShe's beautiful.\u201d I mean, there's such a focus\/the adjectives people use about other people: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cOh, what about this guy?\u201d\u2014\u201cHe's great! Good-looking dude.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cWhat about her?\u201d\u2014\u201cShe's beautiful.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, it's usually one of the first things people say about other people\u2014and we know that\u2014we know how the game is being played. For the sake of the kids, if more parents have a healthier view of themselves, that'll spill over into the children from the kids\u2019 parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, Lindsey, do we tell our kids they're handsome or they're beautiful? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Well, I think there is definitely opportunity for that. You don't want them to, one day, when they're 30, be like \u201cMy mom never told me I was beautiful.\u201d [Laughter] But if that's the <em>only<\/em> adjective that we're picking up\u2014or if it's kind of different adjectives, but all related around beauty\u2014then that could be troublesome; because then, a child will start to think, \u201cAm I anything but this?\u201d because beauty can be fading; or \u201cWhat if I, one day don't have that?\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I get old and saggy?\u201d So we want to make sure we're highlighting\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014<em>when<\/em>\/<em>when<\/em> we get older. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cThat's happening.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Gravity's going to win. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> But I did read once when we\u2014we do a lot of research before we write these books\u2014and it said the best way to talk about your child's body is to <em>not<\/em> talk about their body; in the sense of, I'm not going to sit down with my 13-year-old and mention weight or size; but I could ask her, like: \u201cHey, how are you feeling about where you are?\u201d\u2014I mean, she's 13\u2014\u201cHow are you feeling? We've been talking about your body's changing\u2026\u201d and all those conversations. There\u2019re ways to have that conversation that are going to be encouraging and empowering without me sitting down and being like: \u201cHey, I'm feeling overweight,\u201d \u201cI'm feeling frumpy. Are <em>you<\/em> feeling overweight?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, so I think it's <em>how<\/em> we have\u2014because I have been sitting around women before, when our girls were little\u2014and we had this neighbor\/she literally would grab her stomach and be like\u2014and I've seen this through countless women\u2014they\u2019ll literally grab areas of their body that they don't feel that strong about and be like, \u201cI really need to diet for this section,\u201d or \u201cI have to lay off such-and-such\u201d; and the kids\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u201cCan\u2019t put the bathing suit on with this here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u2014and the kids are there, and they hear <em>everything<\/em>. You might think they're not, but they do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there's ways, like with our 11- and 13-year-old, it's talking about \u201cHey, you're not liking where you are on the volleyball team; because you're sitting on the bench a lot. What are some things that we can do to grow in skill and strength and kind of get you from A to B?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe talk a lot about grit. We talk a lot about: \u201cWhat are some different things you want to try?\u201d or \u201cI see you really strong in this area. Is there anything else you want to explore? Let's kind of create like a bucket list,\u201d\u2014or if [your child\u2019s] down one day\u2014\u201cOkay, you can be down; but then, at the end of the day, let's make a plan. Let's pray and ask God to give wisdom about some other things you can try.\u201d It's kind of like: \u201cLet's not stay <em>stuck<\/em> in the moment\u201d; but we're also\/we don't sit around and talk about weight or size necessarily. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I have no problem talking about like complimenting them. If I had a son, I'd: \u201cHey, you're a handsome young man,\u201d or [to a daughter:] \u201cYou\u2019re a beautiful girl.\u201d I think, if that's the main thing\u2014if that's the first thing and the main thing\u2014that's the problem. What I see too much are too many men are complimenting their wives and daughters; I see it on social media <em>all<\/em> the time\u2014\u201cmy beautiful wife\u201d \u201cmy beautiful kids\u201d\u2014that's great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEveryone\/like I think I'm with you [Dave]\u2014like I'm\u2014like you [Ann] criticize yourself; [Dave\u2019s like]: \u201cI think you're <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> But the idea that the only adjective most little girls and boys hear is \u201chandsome\u201d or \u201cbeautiful\u201d;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014that's heartbreaking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started doing the <em>opposite<\/em>. Instead of <em>not<\/em> talking about it, I'd be like, \u201cI'd bury it. I'd be like: \u2018You're so smart, and sweet, and kind, and beautiful.\u2019 Like give them the <em>whole<\/em> list.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in there, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> And that's fun because I can\u2014like what I <em>don't<\/em> want to do\u2014maybe moms shouldn't talk to girls about their body; I don't know. But as a dad, I want to be in their <em>head<\/em>. They need to know they're beautiful. I don't want some bozo, who just wants to kiss on them, or get their attention to be the first one to say that. I want them to be so confident about how they think and feel about themselves, spiritually, physically, mentally, socially. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's really important is: the <em>power<\/em>. I mean, going back to the story, when parents criticize their <em>own<\/em> bodies\u2014let alone some of the things we've heard parents say to their children in front of us, which is horrifying\u2014but when they\/when parents criticize their own bodies in front of children, they're teaching their children how to criticize themselves. They're <em>shaping<\/em> them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo to counter that, I think there's a great power in parents loading up those compliments. I mean, it's <em>all<\/em> the time with me. I mean, every night, like I go through: \u201cHow are things?\u201d \u201cYou're so good, socially,\u201d \u201cYou're brilliant,\u201d \u201cI wish you were in <em>my<\/em> grade back then,\u201d\u2014we\u2019ll tell them why. Lindsey says that to them, just watching them light up. You have to bestow an identity to these kids. It might sink in; they might actually believe that we mean it if you say it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It's like mom and dad\u2019s words are going to have power over social media, over the kids at schools. Is that what you\u2019re saying? We think they don't, but they really do have power\u2014our words. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I think, if they feel safe at home and empowered\u2014and like I said, as far as the conversation shouldn't be about their bodies\u2014but if your child\u2019s coming to you and saying, \u201cHey, I feel insecure,\u201d well then, by all means, if they're broaching the topic, let's go there. But I don't think a parent should ever sit down and be like, \u201cHey, I really think you're packing on the weight from such-and-such,\u201d which I think is what some parents do. Or they start to kind of subtly put in messages like: \u201cYou might not want to grab that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I've had a lot of moms come to me and say, \u201cMy 12-year-old daughter, you know, she's right on the brink of hitting puberty; and she's really gained weight. I can tell she's gained like 15 pounds. I can tell she's not feeling good about herself. Should I say anything?\u201d Answer that question for us, guys: \u201cDo we ever say something if it feels like something is going on?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Well, I don't think you ever bring up, like, \u201cHey, you've gained weight.\u201d I think it could be the conversation of: \u201cIs anything bothering you?\u201d or \u201cWhat made you feel happy today? What made you feel sad today?\u201d See if you can draw out: \u201cWhat are the sad\/negative things going on?\u201d And then maybe the parent can piece together: \u201cOkay, she's having friend issues,\u201d or \u201c\u2026grade issues,\u201d or something. \u201cWhat's leading to this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then kind of come up with a bucket list, like: \u201cHey, I see that you're really strong in theatre. Let's dive into that,\u201d or \u201cHey, I find at the end\u2014like I sleep better if I've gone and gotten some fresh air. Let's go walk the track together a couple of times\u201d; make it a family event. Then also encourage them\/say, \u201cWhat are some things that you haven't ever tried before that you want to just maybe one time? Let's go do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat builds that resiliency; that builds that grit that we're always talking about with our girls. But it might help the parent kind of either introduce their child to something new that maybe is physical exercise that they've <em>never<\/em> dove into. But if it's a family thing, it's more like we're doing this as a group\u2014we're hanging out; it's building camaraderie\u2014rather than: \u201cYou need to go run around the lake by yourself.\u201d No one wants to do that; I don't want to do that. But if it's: \u201cLet's go walk, as a family, after dinner, and catch up about the day, and walk the dog,\u201d or \u201c\u2026get some fresh air, because it's going to help us sleep better,\u201d that's just a <em>huge<\/em> life-care lesson that, hopefully, they can take when they're not in your home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I think there's a wiser way to bring that up. So back to the specific question of they seem to be gaining weight. One, that's actually what happens when you grow is you actually do put on weight so you can then shoot up\u2014you put on weight, shoot up\u2014that's normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut two, I think, \u201cReframe it.\u201d This is what you did so well, Lindsey, when they're younger\u2014and still do\u2014is but reframe it from a weight discussion to a <em>health<\/em> discussion. Like make\u2014go <em>broader<\/em>\u2014just be like: \u201cHey, how do you think through like sleeping, eating, health, exercise?\u201d\u2014asking the question would be <em>horrifying<\/em>; there's\/so find a way to get there\u2014do a little bit more work; maybe drop some seeds here and there. Then prepare for a few days to where you might actually see if something comes up from the conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLike be strategic about this. In the way that Lindsey talked about food\u2014I remember her talking about this\u2014there was \u201csometimes food\u201d and \u201canytime food\u201d\u2014not good and bad food\u2014like, \u201cTalk about food;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014for health.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014talk about it for health reasons.\u201d So sometimes food is sweets\u2014it's not bad food\u2014because then you get in their head; and then, \u201cWelcome to your eating disorder pathway.\u201d Or anytime food is all the stuff you want them to eat anyway. I think it's <em>reframing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there is a point of checking in\u2014that's what you're describing, Lindsey\u2014is getting them to talk because, usually, they might actually think that about themselves; they might notice. Someone at school most likely has said something, so there's probably going to be something that was said that was harmful that they'll tell you, and then you can address it. Then you start, saying, \u201cWell, what do you think about that? Well, you know, I want you to be <em>healthy<\/em>; I want your body <em>strong<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, this has happened to our girls; I think we can tell the story. But our girls, 11 and 13\u2014they are stereotypically what our culture would say beautiful\/like <em>stunning<\/em>\u2014and they have been criticized by their peers; one of them was called fat\u2014and she is\/I mean, just that was the word that was used\u2014I hate just saying it because it's just the way that it's used. She's not obese\u2014she's not anything\u2014she's not a rail, but she's also\/I mean, she's an athlete; and the child who said it is just a mean girl. The other one, she had someone commented about her nose and eyebrows, like children will find things to make other kids feel insecure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's a really good chance\u2014going, again, back to the question\u2014someone\u2019s probably said something to <em>all<\/em> of our children. And expect that something is being\u2014you can even ask: \u201cHas anyone ever said something to you that really hurt? Because people used to do that to me all the time.\u201d I tell them\/we tell them stories about that\u2014about how people bring up my eyebrows, my receding hairline, my gray hair\u2014so I tell my girls that. I'm like, \u201cHey, I mean, this doesn't stop. Still, today, people do this. Like this is what people do; they're mean. And so I want to help you deal with it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And yet, even as we close, something happened, Justin, when you talked about Lindsey and your daughters\u2014and even their perspective on their bodies\u2014you got emotional. What was that? Why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin: <\/strong>Because I imagine the kind of identity that the culture has bestowed to them. I know that my little girls have been called fat. They've been made fun of because of their nose or one who feels like she might be too tall, and lanky, or whatever. [Emotion in voice] I also know that Lindsey didn't have a great dad. I know there's voices that they have [in their heads], and I <em>hate<\/em> those voices. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I want to pummel them, and I want to be <em>louder<\/em> than them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want that voice\u2014because that's what God did to me\u2014I mean, I have all these other voices of condemnation, or whatever, from sin or how you been sinned against; and God bestows an identity to me, and that's powerful. And so if I can be a part of doing that to the three women in my life, I\u2019m going to do everything I can for that. So that's\/that is fulfilling stuff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; that's what\/I was picking up on that. I was thinking, \u201cMan, if somebody tonight\u2014if a dad or a mom, or both, lays in bed with their daughter\/son, whether they\u2019re five or fifteen and is the voice of speaking those life words and beauty, that can go so far; because we know our kids are hearing that. We're hearing it\u2014negative thoughts and beliefs about our own body\u2014and if we can be the voice of God for them, to remind them they're made in His image, that\u2019d be a good night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann<\/strong>: \u2014really good night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> That was Dave and Ann Wilson talking with Justin and Lindsey Holcomb on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We'd love to send you a copy of their children's book, <em>God Made Me in His Image<\/em> when you make a donation of any amount this week at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you give us a call with your donation at 1-800-358-6329. You can make that a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you know of anyone who could benefit from today's conversation, you can share this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, it would really help us out if you'd rate and review us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if starting a conversation with your kids about their body image is at all intimidating\u2014read, \u201cYes,\u201d\u2014you're going to want to join Dave and Ann Wilson as they talk, again, with Justin and Lindsey Holcomb. They'll help make it, at least, less intimidating than it may sound. That's coming up tomorrow. We hope you can join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:40"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.42M"],"filesize_raw":["25606593"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307469.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307469.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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can we weave confidence and truth into our kids' body image? Authors Lindsey &amp; Justin Holcomb offer ideas to help kids embrace the image of God in them.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-04-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I have no problem talking about like complimenting them. If I had a son, I'd: \u201cHey, you're a handsome young man\u201d; or [to a daughter:]\u201cYou\u2019re a beautiful girl.\u201d If that's the first thing, and the main thing, that's the problem. I see it on social media <em>all<\/em> the time: \u201cmy beautiful wife\u201d; \u201cmy beautiful kids\u201d\u2014that's great\u2014but the idea that the only adjective most little girls and boys hear is handsome or beautiful\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014that's heartbreaking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So do you remember how old you were when you first started disliking your body? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What makes you think I dislike my body? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know; I've heard it a thousand times, and\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What are you talking about? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I've heard you talk about\u2014I was shocked, when we first got married, when you started talking about it\u2014but I mean, I'm guessing it started when you were a little girl. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I was probably nine or ten. I used to share a room with my older sister; she's six years older. I didn't know it at the time, but she was bulimic. She has a lot of sexual abuse in her background, as I do; but she would binge eat. We'd have these <em>feasts<\/em> in the middle of the night on our bed. I thought it was <em>amazing<\/em> because we were spending time together. I loved it, not knowing that she was going to get rid of her food by vomiting it all up. I ate it all with her, and so I started gaining weight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I also remember this: I remember thinking, \u201cI can't wait to turn into Barbie\u201d; because I thought, \u201cEvery little girl grows up and she becomes Barbie.\u201d I kept waiting, and waiting, and waiting. [Laughter] And I stayed Barbie's little sister, Skipper, who's little and short and kind of square. I thought, \u201cWhat happened?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember when we started dating. I didn't know who Skipper was; you kept saying, \u201cI'm Skipper.\u201d I'm like, \u201cWho\u2019s Skipper?\u201d And I thought you were gorgeous; I still do. I was <em>shocked<\/em> that you didn't think that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You would get mad at me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I responded really well\u2014yes, I\u2019d get mad and say \u201cYou\/that's stu\u2026\"\u2014and then I realized, \u201cOh my goodness. You really do think [that], and you don't like your body.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But that really shaped me. I think it shapes a lot of us, because a lot of us grow up not liking our bodies. And as parents, that's a difficult place to think, \u201cHow can I get my son or daughter to really appreciate the way God made them?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And as parents, it\u2019s critical that we do our job in teaching them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've got in our studio today a couple, Justin and Lindsey Holcomb, with us that are going to help us out. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Thank you for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s a joy to be here and be with you two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, even as you sit there and listen to Ann talk about her journeys, does that sound pretty similar? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> It does. I mean, I think, as little girls growing up, we think\u2014especially, I'm petite too\u2014we think, \u201cI'm going to be tall, long, and lean.\u201d [Laughter] And back then, I mean, we would see things in the magazines. Now, I think it's even worse for little girls and teens as they're looking at everything in social media; it's just in their face constantly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I think this is an important piece in people's lives, because it influences how they think about themselves. This message is coming from:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tthemselves; so sometimes, children think this about themselves just by looking in the mirror and kind of comparing themselves. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\ttheir parents sometimes communicate by words or actions; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\ttheir peers; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tand then the culture. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tJust telling that story is important because, hopefully, it'll open up adults\u2019 eyes of what kind of pressure kids are under right now about body image. That's a big weight. Kids got enough going on\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014to deal with body image from their culture, their parents, themselves, and their peers\u2014that's a big burden. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so you guys care enough about it that you've written, at least, two books\u2014and there's more to come\u2014about body image. The first one: <em>God Made All of Me: A Book to Help Children Protect Their Bodies<\/em>. And what we're going to talk about today is another book called <em>God Made Me in His Image: Helping Children Appreciate Their Bodies<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to ask this, Justin, you're an Episcopalian priest with a PhD; never had that on our program before. [Laughter] Seriously, that is <em>powerful<\/em>. I grew up in a Episcopalian church. My little brother died when I when I was seven; he was five-and-a-half. Reverend Ashton, the priest at that parish, literally was, in a sense, God to us. He represented the heart of God as he walked us through it, so I have a real tender spot in my heart for your church and what you do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Lindsey, you\u2019re an advocate for sexual abuse survivors. Talk about that a little bit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> For the past 20 years, I've been working with victims of domestic violence, sexual abuse, sex trafficking\u2014either as a consultant or boots on the ground\u2014there at the safe house. It has been a tremendous honor to come alongside victims. They've taught me a lot. I\u2019ve worked in women's maximum-security prisons, where they've just shared their story; and out of that\u2014out of hearing that darkness of abuse, and betrayal, and not being dignified\u2014has really propelled us both to speak out for victims: \u201cHow can we share the good news that this is not the end of your story?\u201d and \u201cHow can we equip parents to come alongside their children so that they can help empower and prevent but, also, intercede if something does happen?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> When we met, she was a case manager for a domestic violence shelter while we were dating; and then right after we got married, she was the case manager for a sexual assault crisis center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> One time at dinner when we were dating, you said something like, \u201cWell, don't they do training on this for pastors?\u201d I said, \u201cNot, not much.\u201d That's where the ministry she had at the women's federal prison is where one of our books came from. She was teaching a Bible study to a bunch of women in maximum-security prison. So thanks for dragging me along, hon. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It's really cool though. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> But there's been a lot of great changes at, well, the seminary where Justin teaches. Now, they're doing courses on this that Justin\u2019s teaching. I've come in and kind of helped out a little bit. So that's promising\/that's huge\u2014the number of pastors and those that are serving in ministry that are getting equipped\u2014I think there's been a lot of change in the last three or four years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Our real credibility: we have kids. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> They are 11 and 13; so really, in the midst of it all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and so obviously, as a parent and as a seminary prof\u2014and you've worked with a lot of people in ministry\u2014why did you decide: \u201cWe need to write something to help parents teach body image in a godly way for kids\u201d? What was the angst behind that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> There are <em>two<\/em> things. One was knowing how many Christian leaders\/pastors don't talk about the body at all or really well; there's not much material out there:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tA lot of Christians think that like the afterlife is: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be a disembodied soul, floating around in heaven.\u201d We're going to have resurrected bodies, and that's actually surprising to a lot of Christians. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so that one: it\u2019s more of the theological ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tThe other piece was just the statistics on the issue of body image. Basically, we've kind of decided we're going to write children's books on difficult issues: the first one was child sexual abuse prevention; this one on body image. So trying to find the pain points, where parents feel a burden of they're looking at their kid\/they're hearing their kid talk about themselves\u2014or their watching some of their behavior\u2014and they're thinking, \u201cWhat do I do?\u201d We're trying to create resources; and just realizing, statistically, that like 80 percent of girls diet by the time they're like <em>10<\/em>. \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, you have to stop right there. I read that in the last couple pages of your book. We're reading your book\u2014and obviously, it's written for children, and parents to walk through with children\u2014but you get to the end, and you sort of talk to the parents. I'm like, \u201cWait a minute! Ten-year-old girls have already started dieting.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes, 80 percent of girls at 10 have done some type of food restriction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We've got two women in the studio: \u201cDid both of you do that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was a gymnast\u2014I started at <em>eight<\/em>\u2014so around the age of ten is when they started talking about that. Then later, I was in seminary\u2014I was only 21\u2014and I was teaching at an Athletic Club, doing classes; and we had to have our body fat measured once a month. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I don't know if I thought about it when I was ten; but I remember probably reading all those teen magazines, and seeing things; and like it would be in my head. But then I developed an eating disorder in high school; I was anorexic. But the thing for me is nobody ever talked about it. Stuff in my family just wasn't discussed; we didn't really talk about hard topics. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's one thing Justin and I have thought: \u201cWe have an opportunity, as parents\u2014and an obligation\u2014to talk about these things, little bits at a time.\u201d I think people assume like, \u201cOh, the Holcomb\u2019s are always talking about dark topics,\u201d\u2014like the real Debbie Downers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, with these conversations, it needs to be just woven throughout in little bits; so it was: \u201cHow can we equip parents?\u201d\u2014because a lot of our friends just weren't having the conversation because they didn't want to mess it up. They didn't know how to even start: \u201cWhat do I talk about? What do I not?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo really, with this book, it was: \u201cHow can we kind of lay a foundation to start the conversation?\u201d\u2014because parents are the best solution. But also, as we can talk about, moms are one of the biggest problems; and so: \u201cHow can we bring those two together in a really healthy, empowering way?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, with the stats Justin was starting to get into: \u201cBy age five or six, most girls especially, are starting to express concerns about their weight, size, shape.\u201d So we need parents to start reading this book with their three-, four-, five-year-olds, if possible, to kind of start the conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The one that really broke my heart is: \u201cA at age ten, one-third\u2014so 33 percent of girls and 25 percent of boys\u2014say that their number-one concern is their body image. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> But that's the <em>top<\/em> concern. We looked at that and thought, \u201cWell, the Bible has something to say about this. The Christian tradition has something to say about this,\u201d and \u201cThere's some wisdom\u2014 that's not technically\/specifically, Christian\u2014that people need to hear.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe wanted to frame the conversation about body image, because too often that conversation gets co-opted by the patterns of this world. We wanted to frame it with: \u201cWhat does the Bible say about this?\u201d \u201cWhat does God say about you?\u2014about the doctrine of creation, being made in the image of God,\u201d and \u201cHow do you apply that to a child, thinking about their own body?\u201d\u2014and try to thread that needle. And part of this is hoping that some of the parents will take it to heart, too; because they need this book as much as the kids do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Elaborate on that. What do you mean the parents need it?\u2014for their <em>own<\/em> body or are you saying as parents for their kids? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014for themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I think there's a lot of people living with that same pressure from themselves, from their peers, from their culture. Many people have been bestowed an identity when they were young; but even still today, it\u2019s reinforced that their worth is connected to their appearance; and it's reinforced <em>all the time<\/em>. I mean, what do parents say about their little boys?\u2014\u201cHe's a little stud,\u201d or [about a daughter]: \u201cShe's beautiful.\u201d I mean, there's such a focus\/the adjectives people use about other people: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cOh, what about this guy?\u201d\u2014\u201cHe's great! Good-looking dude.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\u201cWhat about her?\u201d\u2014\u201cShe's beautiful.\u201d \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, it's usually one of the first things people say about other people\u2014and we know that\u2014we know how the game is being played. For the sake of the kids, if more parents have a healthier view of themselves, that'll spill over into the children from the kids\u2019 parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, Lindsey, do we tell our kids they're handsome or they're beautiful? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Well, I think there is definitely opportunity for that. You don't want them to, one day, when they're 30, be like \u201cMy mom never told me I was beautiful.\u201d [Laughter] But if that's the <em>only<\/em> adjective that we're picking up\u2014or if it's kind of different adjectives, but all related around beauty\u2014then that could be troublesome; because then, a child will start to think, \u201cAm I anything but this?\u201d because beauty can be fading; or \u201cWhat if I, one day don't have that?\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I get old and saggy?\u201d So we want to make sure we're highlighting\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014<em>when<\/em>\/<em>when<\/em> we get older. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cThat's happening.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Gravity's going to win. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> But I did read once when we\u2014we do a lot of research before we write these books\u2014and it said the best way to talk about your child's body is to <em>not<\/em> talk about their body; in the sense of, I'm not going to sit down with my 13-year-old and mention weight or size; but I could ask her, like: \u201cHey, how are you feeling about where you are?\u201d\u2014I mean, she's 13\u2014\u201cHow are you feeling? We've been talking about your body's changing\u2026\u201d and all those conversations. There\u2019re ways to have that conversation that are going to be encouraging and empowering without me sitting down and being like: \u201cHey, I'm feeling overweight,\u201d \u201cI'm feeling frumpy. Are <em>you<\/em> feeling overweight?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, so I think it's <em>how<\/em> we have\u2014because I have been sitting around women before, when our girls were little\u2014and we had this neighbor\/she literally would grab her stomach and be like\u2014and I've seen this through countless women\u2014they\u2019ll literally grab areas of their body that they don't feel that strong about and be like, \u201cI really need to diet for this section,\u201d or \u201cI have to lay off such-and-such\u201d; and the kids\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u201cCan\u2019t put the bathing suit on with this here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u2014and the kids are there, and they hear <em>everything<\/em>. You might think they're not, but they do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there's ways, like with our 11- and 13-year-old, it's talking about \u201cHey, you're not liking where you are on the volleyball team; because you're sitting on the bench a lot. What are some things that we can do to grow in skill and strength and kind of get you from A to B?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe talk a lot about grit. We talk a lot about: \u201cWhat are some different things you want to try?\u201d or \u201cI see you really strong in this area. Is there anything else you want to explore? Let's kind of create like a bucket list,\u201d\u2014or if [your child\u2019s] down one day\u2014\u201cOkay, you can be down; but then, at the end of the day, let's make a plan. Let's pray and ask God to give wisdom about some other things you can try.\u201d It's kind of like: \u201cLet's not stay <em>stuck<\/em> in the moment\u201d; but we're also\/we don't sit around and talk about weight or size necessarily. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I have no problem talking about like complimenting them. If I had a son, I'd: \u201cHey, you're a handsome young man,\u201d or [to a daughter:] \u201cYou\u2019re a beautiful girl.\u201d I think, if that's the main thing\u2014if that's the first thing and the main thing\u2014that's the problem. What I see too much are too many men are complimenting their wives and daughters; I see it on social media <em>all<\/em> the time\u2014\u201cmy beautiful wife\u201d \u201cmy beautiful kids\u201d\u2014that's great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEveryone\/like I think I'm with you [Dave]\u2014like I'm\u2014like you [Ann] criticize yourself; [Dave\u2019s like]: \u201cI think you're <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> But the idea that the only adjective most little girls and boys hear is \u201chandsome\u201d or \u201cbeautiful\u201d;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014that's heartbreaking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started doing the <em>opposite<\/em>. Instead of <em>not<\/em> talking about it, I'd be like, \u201cI'd bury it. I'd be like: \u2018You're so smart, and sweet, and kind, and beautiful.\u2019 Like give them the <em>whole<\/em> list.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in there, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> And that's fun because I can\u2014like what I <em>don't<\/em> want to do\u2014maybe moms shouldn't talk to girls about their body; I don't know. But as a dad, I want to be in their <em>head<\/em>. They need to know they're beautiful. I don't want some bozo, who just wants to kiss on them, or get their attention to be the first one to say that. I want them to be so confident about how they think and feel about themselves, spiritually, physically, mentally, socially. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's really important is: the <em>power<\/em>. I mean, going back to the story, when parents criticize their <em>own<\/em> bodies\u2014let alone some of the things we've heard parents say to their children in front of us, which is horrifying\u2014but when they\/when parents criticize their own bodies in front of children, they're teaching their children how to criticize themselves. They're <em>shaping<\/em> them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo to counter that, I think there's a great power in parents loading up those compliments. I mean, it's <em>all<\/em> the time with me. I mean, every night, like I go through: \u201cHow are things?\u201d \u201cYou're so good, socially,\u201d \u201cYou're brilliant,\u201d \u201cI wish you were in <em>my<\/em> grade back then,\u201d\u2014we\u2019ll tell them why. Lindsey says that to them, just watching them light up. You have to bestow an identity to these kids. It might sink in; they might actually believe that we mean it if you say it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It's like mom and dad\u2019s words are going to have power over social media, over the kids at schools. Is that what you\u2019re saying? We think they don't, but they really do have power\u2014our words. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> I think, if they feel safe at home and empowered\u2014and like I said, as far as the conversation shouldn't be about their bodies\u2014but if your child\u2019s coming to you and saying, \u201cHey, I feel insecure,\u201d well then, by all means, if they're broaching the topic, let's go there. But I don't think a parent should ever sit down and be like, \u201cHey, I really think you're packing on the weight from such-and-such,\u201d which I think is what some parents do. Or they start to kind of subtly put in messages like: \u201cYou might not want to grab that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I've had a lot of moms come to me and say, \u201cMy 12-year-old daughter, you know, she's right on the brink of hitting puberty; and she's really gained weight. I can tell she's gained like 15 pounds. I can tell she's not feeling good about herself. Should I say anything?\u201d Answer that question for us, guys: \u201cDo we ever say something if it feels like something is going on?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Well, I don't think you ever bring up, like, \u201cHey, you've gained weight.\u201d I think it could be the conversation of: \u201cIs anything bothering you?\u201d or \u201cWhat made you feel happy today? What made you feel sad today?\u201d See if you can draw out: \u201cWhat are the sad\/negative things going on?\u201d And then maybe the parent can piece together: \u201cOkay, she's having friend issues,\u201d or \u201c\u2026grade issues,\u201d or something. \u201cWhat's leading to this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then kind of come up with a bucket list, like: \u201cHey, I see that you're really strong in theatre. Let's dive into that,\u201d or \u201cHey, I find at the end\u2014like I sleep better if I've gone and gotten some fresh air. Let's go walk the track together a couple of times\u201d; make it a family event. Then also encourage them\/say, \u201cWhat are some things that you haven't ever tried before that you want to just maybe one time? Let's go do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat builds that resiliency; that builds that grit that we're always talking about with our girls. But it might help the parent kind of either introduce their child to something new that maybe is physical exercise that they've <em>never<\/em> dove into. But if it's a family thing, it's more like we're doing this as a group\u2014we're hanging out; it's building camaraderie\u2014rather than: \u201cYou need to go run around the lake by yourself.\u201d No one wants to do that; I don't want to do that. But if it's: \u201cLet's go walk, as a family, after dinner, and catch up about the day, and walk the dog,\u201d or \u201c\u2026get some fresh air, because it's going to help us sleep better,\u201d that's just a <em>huge<\/em> life-care lesson that, hopefully, they can take when they're not in your home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I think there's a wiser way to bring that up. So back to the specific question of they seem to be gaining weight. One, that's actually what happens when you grow is you actually do put on weight so you can then shoot up\u2014you put on weight, shoot up\u2014that's normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut two, I think, \u201cReframe it.\u201d This is what you did so well, Lindsey, when they're younger\u2014and still do\u2014is but reframe it from a weight discussion to a <em>health<\/em> discussion. Like make\u2014go <em>broader<\/em>\u2014just be like: \u201cHey, how do you think through like sleeping, eating, health, exercise?\u201d\u2014asking the question would be <em>horrifying<\/em>; there's\/so find a way to get there\u2014do a little bit more work; maybe drop some seeds here and there. Then prepare for a few days to where you might actually see if something comes up from the conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLike be strategic about this. In the way that Lindsey talked about food\u2014I remember her talking about this\u2014there was \u201csometimes food\u201d and \u201canytime food\u201d\u2014not good and bad food\u2014like, \u201cTalk about food;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014for health.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014talk about it for health reasons.\u201d So sometimes food is sweets\u2014it's not bad food\u2014because then you get in their head; and then, \u201cWelcome to your eating disorder pathway.\u201d Or anytime food is all the stuff you want them to eat anyway. I think it's <em>reframing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there is a point of checking in\u2014that's what you're describing, Lindsey\u2014is getting them to talk because, usually, they might actually think that about themselves; they might notice. Someone at school most likely has said something, so there's probably going to be something that was said that was harmful that they'll tell you, and then you can address it. Then you start, saying, \u201cWell, what do you think about that? Well, you know, I want you to be <em>healthy<\/em>; I want your body <em>strong<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, this has happened to our girls; I think we can tell the story. But our girls, 11 and 13\u2014they are stereotypically what our culture would say beautiful\/like <em>stunning<\/em>\u2014and they have been criticized by their peers; one of them was called fat\u2014and she is\/I mean, just that was the word that was used\u2014I hate just saying it because it's just the way that it's used. She's not obese\u2014she's not anything\u2014she's not a rail, but she's also\/I mean, she's an athlete; and the child who said it is just a mean girl. The other one, she had someone commented about her nose and eyebrows, like children will find things to make other kids feel insecure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's a really good chance\u2014going, again, back to the question\u2014someone\u2019s probably said something to <em>all<\/em> of our children. And expect that something is being\u2014you can even ask: \u201cHas anyone ever said something to you that really hurt? Because people used to do that to me all the time.\u201d I tell them\/we tell them stories about that\u2014about how people bring up my eyebrows, my receding hairline, my gray hair\u2014so I tell my girls that. I'm like, \u201cHey, I mean, this doesn't stop. Still, today, people do this. Like this is what people do; they're mean. And so I want to help you deal with it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And yet, even as we close, something happened, Justin, when you talked about Lindsey and your daughters\u2014and even their perspective on their bodies\u2014you got emotional. What was that? Why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin: <\/strong>Because I imagine the kind of identity that the culture has bestowed to them. I know that my little girls have been called fat. They've been made fun of because of their nose or one who feels like she might be too tall, and lanky, or whatever. [Emotion in voice] I also know that Lindsey didn't have a great dad. I know there's voices that they have [in their heads], and I <em>hate<\/em> those voices. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> I want to pummel them, and I want to be <em>louder<\/em> than them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want that voice\u2014because that's what God did to me\u2014I mean, I have all these other voices of condemnation, or whatever, from sin or how you been sinned against; and God bestows an identity to me, and that's powerful. And so if I can be a part of doing that to the three women in my life, I\u2019m going to do everything I can for that. So that's\/that is fulfilling stuff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; that's what\/I was picking up on that. I was thinking, \u201cMan, if somebody tonight\u2014if a dad or a mom, or both, lays in bed with their daughter\/son, whether they\u2019re five or fifteen and is the voice of speaking those life words and beauty, that can go so far; because we know our kids are hearing that. We're hearing it\u2014negative thoughts and beliefs about our own body\u2014and if we can be the voice of God for them, to remind them they're made in His image, that\u2019d be a good night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann<\/strong>: \u2014really good night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> That was Dave and Ann Wilson talking with Justin and Lindsey Holcomb on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We'd love to send you a copy of their children's book, <em>God Made Me in His Image<\/em> when you make a donation of any amount this week at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you give us a call with your donation at 1-800-358-6329. You can make that a one-time gift or a recurring monthly gift. Again, the number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you know of anyone who could benefit from today's conversation, you can share this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, it would really help us out if you'd rate and review us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if starting a conversation with your kids about their body image is at all intimidating\u2014read, \u201cYes,\u201d\u2014you're going to want to join Dave and Ann Wilson as they talk, again, with Justin and Lindsey Holcomb. They'll help make it, at least, less intimidating than it may sound. That's coming up tomorrow. We hope you can join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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