{"id":307447,"date":"2022-03-28T08:04:10","date_gmt":"2022-03-28T12:04:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/enjoying-the-simple-things-in-life\/"},"modified":"2022-03-28T08:04:10","modified_gmt":"2022-03-28T12:04:10","slug":"enjoying-the-simple-things-in-life","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/enjoying-the-simple-things-in-life\/","title":{"rendered":"Enjoying the Simple Things in Life"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Can we enjoy the simple things in life and still honor God? Author Joe Rigney discusses how the the good things God gives us are invitations to know and enjoy him more deeply.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFamilyLIfe&#8217;s Weekend to Remember is on sale<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Can we enjoy the simple things in life and still honor God? Author Joe Rigney discusses how the the good things God gives us are invitations to know and enjoy him more deeply.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-28.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:54","filesize":"25.54M","filesize_raw":"26780646","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[7061],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9689],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307447","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-simple-things","cwp_profile-joe-rigney","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307447\/enjoying-the-simple-things-in-life","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307447\/enjoying-the-simple-things-in-life","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"BgvZqgHZBH\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/enjoying-the-simple-things-in-life\/\">Enjoying the Simple Things in Life<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/enjoying-the-simple-things-in-life\/embed\/#?secret=BgvZqgHZBH\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Enjoying the Simple Things in Life&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"BgvZqgHZBH\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Can we enjoy the simple things in life and still honor God? Author Joe Rigney discusses how the the good things God gives us are invitations to know and enjoy him more deeply.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> When I read the Bible\u2014it says that \u201cYour Word is sweeter than honey,\u201d\/\u201cYour Word is sweeter than pumpkin crunch cake,\u201d\u2014if I\u2019ve never tasted the sweetness of the pumpkin crunch cake, that verse doesn\u2019t mean anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSimilarly, when my kids grow up\u2014and they read: \u201cYour Father loves you,\u201d\u2014will that have any <em>weight<\/em> to it? Will they go, \u201cWell, I know what that\u2019s like; because my dad did tickle fights with me, growing up\u201d?\u00a0 [Laughter] In other words: \u201cWill there be a kind of resonance and experiential-like sensitivity that they have because they grew up my home?\u201d\u2014or this is the scary thing\u2014\u201cWill they grow up, and I will have taught them falsely?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo do you remember the opening of\u2014little drum roll\u2014<em>Raiders of the Lost Ark<\/em>? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I do. I think we stood in line\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u20141981.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Super excited. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We were married one year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I had hair. [Laughter] There you go; that's what I remember.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I remember thinking, \u201cThis is such a <em>fun<\/em> movie. You've got the ark of the covenant in it; and at the end you're like, \u201cThis is how great God is!\u201d I was really excited about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Epic adventure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; we were on staff with Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> at the time. Somebody told me, a few days later, \u201cDid you know that Bill Bright\u201d\u2014the founder of Campus Crusade for Christ<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014\u201cwent to that movie?\u201d I'm like, \u201cYes! Of course, he did; because it was so <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d And they said, \u201cAnd he walked out.\u201d Suddenly, I said\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He walked out; why? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He walked out; why did he walk out?\u201d He said, \u201cYou know, this is a <em>bad<\/em> use of my time. I can go home, and read the Bible, and experience the real truth of it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt like the biggest loser and lack of faith. I thought, every time I'd go to a movie, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cBill Bright would have walked out of this movie; and here I am, enjoying it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And the thing that you think\u2014I don't remember talking about this\u2014but you think, \u201cIf I really love Jesus, I'm not going to love things in this earth like a movie.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthat are enjoyable.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \u201cI'm just\/I'm going to be so in love with Jesus, the things of this world are just going to be not that important anymore: a movie, a football game.\u201d We're getting\/we're getting near my love now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; now, we\u2019re getting in your area.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, this is a really interesting topic. We have a guy sitting in the studio with us today, Joe Rigney. You've <em>written<\/em> about this; this is something you're <em>passionate<\/em> about. I could see it in your face: you're looking over at us like you've had this same dilemma as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Anyway, Joe, let me first say this: \u201cWelcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d We were in your city last time we interviewed, Minnesota\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014Minneapolis\u2014but now, you're in Orlando, Florida, where it's really, really cold here; isn't it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes; it's super cold, all of 70 degrees. [Laughter] I just came\u2014it was -5 when I got on the plane\u2014I get here; and they're like, \u201cSorry it's so cold.\u201d \u201cOh, sure; it's really cold.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We're glad you're here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know you've had a pretty interesting couple few months, where you were just named the second ever president of Bethlehem College and Seminary.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's an esteemed honor: \u201cWay to go; congratulations.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Thanks; I'm very excited. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We feel honored to have somebody so distinguished in our studio today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Should people go there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> People should absolutely go there. [Laughter] Thanks for asking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You're welcome for that plug. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> I would love\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You're wearing a shirt that says \u201cBethlehem College and Seminary\u201d on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> I've got all the gear ready to go. Yes, I'm very excited. I am the second president of Bethlehem College and Seminary\u2014intentionally small Christian liberal arts school\u2014we teach great books in light of the greatest Book for the sake of the Great Commission. We really want students to grow up into maturity. We're with the idea that that's the\u2014joy in Jesus\u2014is the ballast in their boat that helps them to weather the storms and trials of life, because they're going to come. We want our students to be ready for life, not just ready to make a living, but ready\/ready for life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Gee, I want to go to school there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I need\/I\u2019m working on a doctorate; can I get one there? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right; well, we offer Master of Theology.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But here's what we're talking about today, and I thought it'd be fun to sing it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Okay; here we go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because your book, <em>Strangely Bright<\/em>\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014is based on a line of this song\u2014right?\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes, it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you know, <em>Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus<\/em>. So let me sing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I'm not going to sing it perfectly, but\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Are you a singer? Can you sing it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014better than Eleanor\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> I'll sing it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re going to sing it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I'm going to do a little. [Dave and Joe sing a chorus of <em>Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus<\/em>] I noticed you changed a word in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> I did change a word. I have been known to change words to songs sometimes, as apparently, you do too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I do that a little bit; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> But I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let's talk about that concept though, because I've <em>never<\/em> heard anybody write or even think the way you have approached this whole idea. I think it's ingenious to think: \u201cOkay, the song says, you know, when I look full in his wonderful face, the things of this earth will grow strangely <em>dim<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you ask the question: \u201cWhy? Is that really true?\u201d So tell us why that's a discussion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes; good. So the song is a great way into it because\u2014I think the gal's name is Helen Lemmel who wrote that song\u2014I'm almost positive that, in her head, was the passage in Colossians: \u201cSet your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.\u201d She's thinking of a biblical passage and she\u2014don't set your mind on things of the earth, which in that context, is sinful things\u2014you know, sexual immorality, and covetousness, and idolatry, and things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I know that just growing up in church, singing songs like that, you kind of begin to transition\u2014it's not just sinful things that you're supposed\/that grow <em>dim<\/em> when Jesus shows up\u2014but it's just the normal stuff\/the good things. There becomes a tension; because you begin to think, \u201cWell, if Jesus shows up, all of these other things are worthless.\u201d There's a kernel of truth there, which I have\/we have to wrestle with. There's language in the Bible that gets us there, but that's not the whole picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo this tension\u2014there's a real tension both in the Bible\u2014a tension I think that then flows over into our experience of: \u201cHow do I\u2014if I want to love and honor God\/if I want to treasure Him above everything\u201d\u2014that's the way we talk about\/we treasure Jesus\u2014\"if I want that to be my life, what do I do with all of these things that surround me on every side, every day that I live and move, and they're all there. They're so potent, and powerful, and delightful; how do we do that?\u201d So that's the tension.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI spent a lot of time thinking about this over the last, I don't know, 10\/15 years. This book is my best effort to make as accessible as possible how I have tried to wrestle with the Bible over that problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you end up taking a word out\u2014tongue in cheek\u2014you changed it even in the song from \u201cstrangely dim\u201d to \u201cstrangely <em>bright<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes; that's something that's coming out my own experience. I notice that, whenever I'm most full of Jesus\/whenever the Holy Spirit is alive and kicking, I find that my wife and my kids are more delightful. I enjoy them more; they're more what they ought to be. I'm seeing them rightly, because I'm seeing them in the light of His face. Jesus shows I'm seeing them in the light of His face, and they're not dim; they're brighter and more glorious because He's more glorious. That was my experience and that was where kind of the little spin on the song came from: was the things of earth grow strangely <em>bright<\/em>, when Jesus shows up, because they're in their proper place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, I love this dilemma\/this tension because I think there really is a question in our mind: \u201cIf I'm full of Jesus\/if I'm fully obsessed and surrendered\u201d\u2014what did you call?\u2014\u201ctreasured.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u2014\u201ctreasured.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cHe's my treasure, 100 percent.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what Ann experienced is: sometimes, we feel guilt if we have any enjoyment of anything\u2014not sinful things but beautiful things\u2014even of like a movie, or a song, or you mentioned baseball. I say football is much more important, but either way. [Laughter] I mean, there's parts of us\/it's like: \u201cWell, wait; I feel almost guilty, or almost maybe even sinful, to enjoy a pleasure of the world.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Right; I'm trying to put my finger on this low-grade guilt that people have, simply because they're creatures in God's world, enjoying the things that He's made. It's there; it's a real thing. There's reasons for it, because we are sinners, too; we\u2019re not just creatures. We\u2019re sinners; and we're prone to make things be more valuable than they are, and exchange the glory of God for images\u2014and like that\u2014idolatry is a real thing, so I get into that. That's part of the\/what we have to wrestle with if we're going to be whole-Bible people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we <em>start<\/em> from this notion of God made everything, and it's good. Everything created by God is good, and <em>nothing<\/em> is to be rejected if it's received with thanksgiving; that's what Paul says in 1 Timothy 4. There's this <em>need<\/em> to really get into: \u201cHow do we take the passages on the one hand that say things like\u2014\u2018\u2026whom have I in heaven but You?\u2019 and \u2018On earth, there's nothing I desire besides You,\u2019\u2014and then if you say that\/you're in church; you sing a song that expresses that, and then you look down the row and there's your family\u2014and you're going: \u201cDid I <em>mean<\/em> what I just said?\u201d or \u201cWhat about <em>them<\/em>?\u201d and \u201cHow do we bring those together?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was the tension; it's a real one in my heart\/was for a long time. I think I don't live it out perfectly, by any stretch of the imagination; but in terms of knowing what I'm aiming for, I think God is\/has helped me to see, in the Bible, the way forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What are the things that Joe Rigney looks\u2014you said down the aisle and look at your family\u2014are there things in life that you're like, \u201cYou know, I just really <em>love<\/em>\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthis; and there's nothing wrong with loving this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> So you write a book like this, and you're always trying to think of examples. After\/at some point, I started going back through all my examples; and it was: \u201cWell, apparently, I really like my family and food,\u201d [Laughter] because all of the things were that. Now, that's not true; there was others\u2014I'm a sports fan\u2014I like baseball; there\u2019s a whole chapter in this book on baseball and how baseball is a special thing for me. But a lot of it is food and relationships. Some of that's because I think that those are universal for everybody. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! Most listeners are like, \u201cYes!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Not everybody\u2019s going to love baseball; not everybody's going to love football, and not everybody's going to love The Beatles; but everybody's going to love food\u2014some food or other\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Any kind of food you really, really like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u2014and everybody is going to have people that they deeply value and care about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> So it's like those are the ones you really got to deal with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, what's your food?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> My food? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I threw it in the song, that I\u2019ve heard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> You did; you did. So the one that came up\u2014there's actually a really funny story here\u2014is pumpkin crunch cake. It's this dessert that my wife makes. It's a fall\/it sounds\/it sounds like a fall dessert, and it is. It's pumpkin filling with kind of cake mix over the top with lots and lots of butter and walnuts thrown in there, and it's fantastic. It's my favorite deal. She'll make a <em>whole<\/em> thing of it for me. I will eat it for like multiple meals. [Laughter] It's like dessert, and then it's like breakfast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You <em>will<\/em> have it for breakfast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> It's just like a donut; it's the equivalent of a donut. We eat cake all the time for breakfast; we just call them donuts, so it's that. Then I'll have it for lunch. I love this thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my first attempt at a book like this\u2014called <em>The Things of Earth<\/em>; t\u2019s a bigger book than the one we're talking about\u2014I talked about this all the time. Then the most common thing\u2014I'd go speak at a church on this\u2014the most common thing: people will be lining up afterward. I think they're going to want to come up and say, \u201cOh, we really appreciated what you just said,\u201d\u2014which they typically did\u2014but they always had a question; and it was always: \u201cHow do we get the recipe for pumpkin crunch Cake?\u201d [Laughter] I kept getting asked this question; I was like, \u201cOh, what a missed opportunity.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I get to do the second book, the little cousin, <em>Strangely Bright<\/em>. I got to rectify the error and include the recipe in the Appendix, which is also a great way to sell books. Because people, [Laughter] you know, where\u2019s\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You got a cookbook out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes, that's right. There's a little\/it's a little cookbook at the back. Pumpkin crunch cake is the quintessential example. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you put a recipe in a book\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014some people actually go <em>make<\/em> it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We have somebody that made your pumpkin crunch cake\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Did they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014right here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Alright!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Here it is!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Rebecca Markham <em>made your cake<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Rebecca, that\u2019s amazing. I will\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Have you ever done an interview, and you\u2019re eating pumpkin crunch cake at the table at the same time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> No; but man, I got songs; and I got pumpkin crunch cake\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Thank you, Rebecca! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u2014and man, what a good cake. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and ice cream with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Ice cream; this is the way you do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don't think I ever had this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I've <em>never<\/em> had this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness, are you serious?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Rebecca, did you follow the recipe? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> She did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She did; you can tell! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Joe knows. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> And it\u2019s a great example.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You're saying that this shouldn't grow strangely <em>dim<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It's to be strangely <em>bright<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> So I think\/I think this is actually a really good example. The Bible actually gives us an equivalent example. In the Bible they didn't have pumpkin crunch cake\u2014\u201cSorry\/sorry, King David.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But they could have manna. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> But well, what they had was honey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> And in the Scriptures, honey is a regular image that the Bible uses for good things\u2014you know: \u201cThe Scriptures are sweeter than honey\/the drippings of the honeycomb\u201d \u201cMay Your Word be sweeter than honey.\u201d There's a proverb\u2014it\u2019s in Proverbs 24\u2014that says: \u201cMy son, eat honey, because it's good,\u201d and \u201cThe dripping of the honeycomb are sweet to your taste. Know that wisdom is such to your soul.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was a paradigm verse for me, when this is the one that I say, \u201cOkay, if we get this about honey, and then just go out from there, we get it.\u201d So you can substitute pumpkin crunch cake. The idea is: \u201cYour soul has taste buds, just like your tongue does. And you can, according to that passage, train your soul buds by exercising your tongue buds.\u201d Does that make sense? You're training the soul\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I'm doing that right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> You're doing it right now; that's right. But you can't just do it\u2014because if you just eat it, and you don't think about it\u2014but what's happening on my tongue right now with the pumpkin crunch cake is something like what my soul should feel when it encounters God's wisdom. That experience\/that experiential reality of: \u201cMy son, eat honey,\u201d\u2014he's saying to his son\u2014\u201cGo eat some pumpkin crunch cake, and then meditate on that\/think about that experience, and say \u2018know.\u2019 Then having: \u2018Okay, now I got it,\u2019\u2014experiential knowledge\u2014now, <em>know<\/em> wisdom is like that to your soul, which means you can't know what wisdom is like unless you go through honey,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cThe path to understanding God's wisdom is through honey\/through pumpkin crunch cake.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So something of creation reveals\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u2014what God is like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is interesting, because I don\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's a good thing;\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> It's a wonderful thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014it's not a thing to feel guilty about;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> No, no; it's what\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014celebrate it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> God designed the world; this is <em>the<\/em> reason the world exists.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don't know if you guys know this; but many rabbis in Israel will go to an elementary school with five-year-olds. They'll put wax paper down in front of every five-year-old, and they'll put honey on it. Then they'll have the kids taste the honey with their tongues; and then they'll go to Scripture and say, \u201cGod's Word is like this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So it's that same connection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent. My wife was a preschool teacher for a number of years. When they would do Bible time, she would have Skittles<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or something like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> She'd be like: \u201cHere's a Skittle,\u201d and then \u201cWe're going to do our Bible verse.\u201d The goal was to make that exact connection, because that's how the\/that's what the Bible wants us to do. It's how God reveals Himself to creatures like us that He made to receive Him in that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It's interesting, as I'm listening to you, Joe\u2014and when I read <em>Strangely Bright<\/em>\u2014this is <em>critical<\/em> to understand. Here's why\u2014there's a lot of reasons\u2014and I'm telling the author that this matters, but you've written about it\u2014but when I was finishing college, I had a choice to make: \u201cWhat am I going to do with my life?\u201d Everybody's trying to figure that out; right? One of my options was to play in the NFL. As a college quarterback, I was going to get an offer; and I got it. I didn't get drafted; but I got a free agent offer from Cincinnati Bengals, who\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You're not bragging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>almost<\/em> won the Super Bowl, this close. Oh, I'm not bragging at all; I'm just saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere I am, a 22-year-old young man, trying to figure out the future. I'm probably 18\u201418 months to 2 years now\u2014a brand-new Christian, growing like crazy in my faith, I go to my spiritual mentor on the campus and say, \u201cHow do I think about this decision? Should I go try and play in the NFL?\u201d You know what he said? \u201cAbsolutely not, that would be sin.\u201d I'm quoting him; I go, \u201cSin?\u201d He goes \u201cGod\u2019s called you to full-time ministry\u2014you know that; I know that\u2014the NFL is a waste of time. That has nothing to do with ministry.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm sort of paraphrasing; but I walked away, like, \u201cOkay, that's not an option; because I have to do one thing, and it looks just like this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I realize <em>now<\/em>\u2014now, you're looking at a guy; you could tell this guy is not going to play ten years in NFL. If I would have made it, I would have been a backup for a couple years and then out but\u2014and I maybe wouldn't have made it, who knows\u2014but I didn't even consider it an option, because I thought it was things of this world. And things of this world, like football and playing football, and I never considered: \u201cWell, maybe God wants to use <em>that<\/em> as ministry.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd by the way, NFL is not a long-term decision; it's a short-term decision. But I thought, \u201cMan, that's a <em>critical<\/em> understanding; because I bought into what I would say now is not really\u2014I wouldn\u2019t say a lie\u2014but a distortion of truth, like, \u201cNo, there's a lot of ways you can do ministry, based on who you are and what God could do.\u201d And because it may not look a certain way doesn't mean it's second best to God; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Right; the idea there is just God has many different vocations; there's different ways. We want to honor him in whatever you do: \u201cWhether you eat, whether you drink, whatever you do, do everything to the glory of God,\u201d \u201cWhatever you do, work at it with all your heart.\u201d There's a\/there is a broadness in the biblical call to say all kinds of vocations, all kinds of locations, all kinds of any of that\u2014the goal is\u2014\u201cHow do you know God through it, and help others to know God through it?\u201d Like that's the overarching category, which means then that it's as wide as the world is that He's made; so that's right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So apply it this way\u2014you know we're a marriage and family ministry; we're trying to help our listeners pursue the relationships that matter most, which is your family\u2014\u201cHow does this apply in your home?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> There's a lot of ways that it applies in my home. Well, let me back up here and say: \u201cTo the fundamental thing we get with pumpkin crunch cake, which we then take and say, \u2018That's our honey\u2019; and then we say: \u201cThat's everything\/everything that God made is designed to reveal what He is like,\u201d\u2014that's the baseline\u2014that's: \u201cWhy the heavens declare the glory of God,\u201d\u2014it's that principle\u2014and then you just run it. It's not just the heavens that do that; <em>everything<\/em> does that\u2014honey does that; pumpkin crunch cake does that\u2014which means, \u201cMade things make invisible realities visible.\u201d So in Romans\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014general revelation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> General revelation\u2014that's exactly\u2014see, you could\/you\u2019re like,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014seminary!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI want to come to college.\u201d She's like\/she's already got the seminary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe idea there is that God has revealed Himself in the things that He's made\u2014His invisible attributes, His eternal power, His divine nature\u2014clearly perceived in the things that are made. Now, so made things make invisible realities visible; that\u2019s step one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStep two: \u201cYou\u2019re a made thing.\u201d You\u2019re a made thing; you're <em>made<\/em>. Well, okay, so follow the logic; therefore, <em>you<\/em> make invisible attributes visible. That's why God made <em>you<\/em>, which means, now then, you go: \u201cOkay, now, we're back to the home,\u201d which means \u201cWhat's my role in the home as a dad? I want to tell the truth about what God is like.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo the way that we've kind of summarized this in our church is: \u201cI want to be the smile of God to my children.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Say that again; that's good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u201cI want to be the smile of God to my children.\u201d God is a happy God; this is Christianity 101. Within the fellowship of the Trinity, the Father loves the Son, and the Son loves the Father; and then there's an explosion of joy that <em>is<\/em> the Holy Spirit. So there's this: \u201cGod is a <em>happy<\/em> God.\u201d We see window pictures of that when Jesus is on earth, at His baptism\u2014where He comes up out of the water\u2014and the Spirit descends like a dove: \u201cThis is My beloved Son with whom I am well pleased.\u201d That's like the deepest realities there is\u2014like there it\/you don't get deeper than that\u2014there's nothing behind that that's more fundamental than: \u201cGod loves His Son.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, gospel: \u201cGod loves us in Jesus. The same love that He has for His Son is extended to us; because we are united to Christ by faith, and Christ is ours.\u201d So that's fundamental theology\/fundamental gospel. Now, bring it into your home; and it's: \u201cI want that to have experiential <em>weight<\/em> for my family.\u201d It's unbelievable to feel that kind of gravity there, but I want\u2014just like with the we do with the cake here\u2014when I read the Bible and it says that \u201cYour Word is sweeter than honey,\u201d\/\u201dYour word is sweeter than pumpkin crunch cake,\u201d\u2014if I\u2019ve never tasted the sweetness of the pumpkin crunch cake, that verse doesn\u2019t mean anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSimilarly, when my kids grow up\u2014and they read: \u201cYour Father loves you,\u201d\u2014will that have any <em>weight<\/em> to it? Will they go: \u201cWell, I know what that\u2019s like; because my dad did tickle fights with me, all growing up\u201d?\u00a0 [Laughter] In other words, \u201cWill there be a kind of resonance and experiential-like sensitivity that they have, because they grew up my home?\u201d\u2014or this is the scary thing\u2014\u201cWill they grow up, and I will have taught them falsely?\u201d\u2014in other words: \u201cDad\u2019s grumpy,\u201d \u201cDad\u2019s distant\u201d; \u201cDad\u201d\/fathers are grumpy, distant\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re not the smile of God; you\u2019re the frown. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> \u2014the frown of God; that's right. Is that what they'll grow up [with]?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things this does for me is like\u2014again, it puts just the weightiness on\u2014that's true everywhere you go\u2014it's not just in your home, but everywhere you go\u2014but it means: \u201cWhen I come home from work, I'm thinking I want to come into my house with that kind of communication happening, because I'm showing them what God is like or I'm not. I'm showing them what God is really like or I'm lying about God.\u201d Those are the two options\u2014I\u2019m going to speak; I'm going to reveal\u2014it's either going to be truth, or it's going to be lies.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; one other thing I heard\u2014I'm not putting words in your mouth\u2014but if I'm having a tickle fight with my boys on the family room carpet,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I'm worshipping God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> That's right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's a worship God moment, as a husband and a dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joe:<\/strong> Yes; the soundtrack playing in the back of your head, when you're doing the wrestle fight with the kids, is: \u201cThis is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased.\u201d That's the soundtrack that God is saying: \u201cI'm bringing <em>that<\/em> into the room\u201d; and it's something that's sort of offered to all, but you have to actually receive it. You have to have eyes to see that's what this is, and the point of the book is to help people <em>have<\/em> those kinds of eyes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> That was Dave and Ann Wilson talking with Joe Rigney on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> If you'd like a copy of Joe's book, <em>Strangely Bright<\/em>, you can grab it at FamilyLifeToday.com. Or you can give us a call at 1-800-358-6329; that's 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat if I told you that the foundation of your marriage isn't all on you to figure out? Sounds good; right? FamilyLife's <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is three days for you and your spouse to get away, hear from some great speakers, and connect over God's Word. Whether you want to take a road trip or stay close to home, there's a <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>getaway for you. When you sign up this week, you'll get over 40 percent off the regular registration price. You can find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com; or by calling 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you know of anyone who could benefit from today's conversation, you can share this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, it would really help us out if you'd rate and review us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you ever feel guilty for wasting your gifts and talents? Yes, me too. Well, Dave and Ann Wilson will be talking, again, tomorrow with Joe Rigney about how to stop that draining guilt. That's tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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