{"id":307430,"date":"2022-03-08T08:03:07","date_gmt":"2022-03-08T13:03:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/garrett-kell-the-day-my-secrets-got-out\/"},"modified":"2022-03-08T08:03:07","modified_gmt":"2022-03-08T13:03:07","slug":"garrett-kell-the-day-my-secrets-got-out","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/garrett-kell-the-day-my-secrets-got-out\/","title":{"rendered":"Garrett Kell: The Day My Secrets Got Out"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Author and pastor Garrett Kell lived in the agony of his own secrets and porn addiction. But God used his breakdown for healing in Garrett&#8211;&#038; his church.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author and pastor Garrett Kell lived in the agony of his own secrets and porn addiction. But God used his breakdown for healing in Garrett&#8211;&amp; his church.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:49","filesize":"24.55M","filesize_raw":"25742424","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2844,2827],"tags":[7049,4955],"podcast_series":[8510],"cwp_profile":[9760],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307430","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pornography","category-repentance","tag-garrett-kell","tag-preparing-for-marriage","podcast_series-garrett-kell-pure-in-heart","cwp_profile-j-garrett-kell","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307430\/garrett-kell-the-day-my-secrets-got-out","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307430\/garrett-kell-the-day-my-secrets-got-out","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"47vgYchJ4v\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/garrett-kell-the-day-my-secrets-got-out\/\">Garrett Kell: The Day My Secrets Got Out<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/garrett-kell-the-day-my-secrets-got-out\/embed\/#?secret=47vgYchJ4v\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Garrett Kell: The Day My Secrets Got Out&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"47vgYchJ4v\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Today\u2019s conversation on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> covers some sensitive, but important, subjects that might not be good for younger ears; so please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast. Now, let\u2019s jump into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Jesus was <em>very<\/em> patient with sexual sinners; He was very tender with them. But He was <em>hard<\/em> against religious hypocrites. And you\u2019ve got to pick: \u201cAre you going to be a broken, humble sinner, who needs Him; or are you going to be a religious hypocrite?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can remember: often, men in our church would set up appointments to come see me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014constantly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, you know, you\u2019re a pastor\u2014and you talk about different things, and you hit a chord with somebody\u2014so they\u2019ll come in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; so when they\u2019d come in, did you think, \u201cOh, I know what this is about\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, often, they would sort of stumble around; because I could tell they were <em>afraid<\/em> to really talk about why they were there. You know, you\u2019re talking and laughing; but I can sense them getting nervous. Usually\u2014and I\u2019m not kidding\u2014it felt like eight out of ten guys had a porn struggle. Because I had, from the pulpit said, \u201cI have struggled with it,\u201d they felt comfortable, like, \u201cWell, if he struggled with it, I can go in and talk to him about it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut they were a little afraid to bring it up. They\u2019d bring it up\u2014and I\u2019ll never forget this one time\u2014Bruce, one of the drummers in our band\u2014and I played bass, so I knew Bruce really well\u2014he sets up this appointment. I\u2019m like, \u201cWhy would Bruce want to meet? I mean, we talk all the time! We\u2019re in the band together\u201d; right? And he comes in, and he\u2019s hem-hawing around. I finally go, \u201cOkay, Bruce, I know why you\u2019re here.\u201d He goes, \u201cWhy?\u201d I go, \u201cYou\u2019re struggling with porn; I know every guy that I talk to struggles with porn. So that\u2019s okay. Let\u2019s go; let\u2019s talk about it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe goes, \u201cDude! No! I don\u2019t struggle with porn. Why do you say that?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, you know, a lot of guys are like you. They\u2019re hesitant to tell me what\u2019s going on, so I figured that\u2019s what it is.\u201d I go, \u201cWhy are you here?\u201d And he goes, \u201cWell, I just gave my life to Christ, and I was hoping you could like <em>disciple me<\/em>!\u201d [Laughter] I was like, \u201cAwesome, man! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> The drummer got saved\u2014that\u2019s better!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThis is great!\u201d; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019ll take it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never forget that moment; because I got to the point, where I thought, \u201cThis is universal: every guy.\u201d I didn\u2019t meet with women, so I didn\u2019t know their story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I was meeting with the women; and so often, women were saying, \u201cI have no idea what to do. My husband is struggling; I feel like I\u2019m not enough. I feel like this is about me. Help me!\u201d And then, I would also have meetings, where women are saying, \u201c<em>I\u2019m<\/em> struggling with this issue, and I don\u2019t know where to get help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so we\u2019ve got Garrett Kell back with us today\u2014pastor of a church\u2014Del Ray Baptist; did I say it right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re <em>glad <\/em>you\u2019re back. Welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Obviously, we heard your story, which is this epic, awesome, coming-to-Christ story. But then we got into, after you came to Christ\u2014and now, you\u2019ve been pastoring for years\u2014you had this secret sort of struggle that we just talked about, this pornography battle. But we didn\u2019t hear of how you came to start winning this battle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It sounded like you were hiding something, even in ministry, and nobody really knew except you. A lot of us have been there. I know our listeners, if they\u2019re being really honest, may be the only ones who know this battle. Tell us the rest of the story: I mean, what happened? You were pastoring; and yet, when you go home, you\u2019re struggling with pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; I did feel hopeless. You know, as I mentioned, there was a time, where I thought, \u201cI\u2019m just always going to be like this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> And I resolved myself to trying to figure out how to live in the duplicity\u2014it haunts you\u2014a guilty conscience is a gift from the Lord, and I was trying to hide it. Yes, I had been a pastor for about three years, and I had a pattern of\u2014every couple weeks, or every month or two, or something like that\u2014where I would retreat, either for a brief time or a more extended time and indulge in pornography, then feel super guilty and delete my search history, and call a friend and be like, \u201cHey, I just want you to know I\u2019m struggling a little bit. Pray for me!\u201d That pattern just went on, and on, and on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you wallow in that? Were you, in your head, full of shame?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> There were times that I certainly was full of shame. I felt it particularly when I was trying to counsel other people,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014where I felt the weight of my hypocrisy. There were a couple times I think I withheld some really hard words; because I knew, deep down, that I wasn\u2019t living it. I can just see how Satan\u2014he wasn\u2019t just getting me\u2014he was getting a lot of people, because of my sin struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which is interesting\u2014just to make the point that we often think our sin struggle just affects us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It does <em>not<\/em>; it always affects others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Man, oh man! I mean, the people you were ministering to; but if you\u2019re a dad or a mom, it is affecting your family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; because you\u2019re going to come in, and your mind\u2019s going to be elsewhere; or you\u2019re just <em>numb<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> You\u2019re not going to be as in tune with the needs of others; or you\u2019re going to be angry because you\u2019re ticked off: \u201cI did this again!\u201d Just the ripple effect of sin\u2014it <em>never<\/em> just affects you\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> And again, the church I was pastoring\u2014God was blessing it! People were coming to the Lord, and people were growing\u2014He was working in spite of me! During this time, I met my, now, wife. We had\u2014long story; great story\u2014her side is a lot more holy than mine. [Laughter] We met and started dating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was thinking about joining a friend on a church plant; and I said, \u201cYou know what? If I\u2019m going to work with him, I should probably let him know everything.\u201d Because I kind of felt like I just wanted to come clean. I wrote what I now call \u201cthe letter.\u201d In the letter, I chronicled all of my sexual sin from the time I had become a Christian up until then.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had told Carrie about my struggle with pornography. By His grace, the relationship really helped. There had been some distance, but I\u2019d still never been honest about where I had been. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI sent that letter to my buddy, Reid. Carrie and I hopped on a plane to fly up to Jersey, to film our promo video for the church. I get off the plane; I have a voicemail. He says, \u201cHey, let\u2019s meet up at the coffee shop.\u201d We met up at the coffee shop. I had the hardest encounter that I\u2019ve ever had. Reid\u2014he\u2019s a former Division I wrestler\u2014he sat across from me, looked me in the eyes; and he said, \u201cGarrett, I love you. But I read your letter; and I do not, in good conscience, feel like we can more forward with the church plant. To be honest with you, brother, I don\u2019t think you\u2019re qualified to be a pastor right now.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> He said, \u201cYou\u2019re not above reproach. You\u2019ve been living a lie for a long time, and you need to go back; you need to tell your elders\/your fellow pastors what\u2019s been going on.\u201d You know, I started coming up with every excuse: \u201cOh, it\u2019s been a while!\u201d or \u201cHey, you know, things are new now.\u201d He goes, \u201cNo; you\u2019ve been living a lie, and you need to tell the truth.\u201d And I knew he was right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went back home, and I gave the letter to the elders. That began\u20142007\u2014began what I call \u201cthe year of the anvil.\u201d An anvil is a hard metal surface that you lay something on, and you beat it into shape. The Lord used 2007 to break me in all the ways that I needed to [be broken]. Those guys and their families: all they wanted was a church that preached the Bible. All they wanted was to see their friends have a place they could go and hear about Jesus, that wasn\u2019t just mixed in with dead religion. That\u2019s <em>all <\/em>they wanted in a church, and I <em>hurt<\/em> them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey read the letter, and they wanted some time to think about it. We met back up, and they had some very hard words for me. One of them that I still remember\u2014a good friend to this day, his name is Will\u2014he said: \u201cYou know, Garrett, Jesus was <em>very<\/em> patient with sexual sinners; He was very tender with them. But He was <em>hard<\/em> against religious hypocrites,\u201d and \u201cYou\u2019ve got to pick: \u2018Are you going to be a broken, humble sinner, who needs Him; or are you going to be a religious hypocrite?\u2019\u201d And that struck me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he was right. Those were\u2014it was a hard word, but it was the <em>right<\/em> word\u2014I needed to hear it. In a small town, things happen. Word kind of got out about the letter somehow. People started to have questions about: \u201cHey, I heard something\u2019s going on with the pastor.\u201d As you can imagine, in a small town, it mutates. Basically, what they said is: \u201cWhat we need to do is we need to have you come up in front of the church and tell everybody what you did.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter I got done preaching on Sunday, one of the elders got up and said, \u201cI need to let all y\u2019all know\u2014many of you have probably heard\u2014Garrett has some personal things going on\/some personal sin. Tonight, at 6 o\u2019clock, we\u2019re going to meet back here, and he\u2019s going to share about it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Now, we didn\u2019t have meaningful membership; so this was basically, \u201cAnyone in this small town, who wants to hear about the pastor\u2019s sin, come on out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, boy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> So that night, the room was full. It was one of those slow-motion moments. My greatest fears were coming to pass. Because the reason I hadn\u2019t been honest this whole time\u2014like I loved the Lord! I did; I <em>loved<\/em> Him, and I just wanted people to know Him\u2014but I was <em>so afraid <\/em>that people were going to think bad of Jesus, and even more so, I was afraid they were going to think bad of me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just basically went through the whole letter, and told them everything I had done, even as their pastor, in regards to looking at pornography. I wept, and I asked for their forgiveness; told them I would do whatever they wanted me to do. If they wanted me to resign, I would resign; if they wanted me to do\u2014whatever! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m keenly aware that Jesus paid for that as well\u2014as a pastor\u2014but all of that really broke me; it really humbled me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did that look like? You say you were broken; what did that look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Fast-forward a couple weeks\/months\u2014somewhere in there\u2014because we had multiple meetings after this, where there was more of this and constantly confessing. I remember, I got to the place where I had confessed every sin that I could ever think of, and I was lying on the rug in my bedroom. It was one of those plush rugs\u2014really plush\u2014so it was all up in my grill. I remember just lying there, and I remember I had no more tears to cry. I remember saying, \u201cOkay, God; I can\u2019t think of anything else I could confess.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe didn\u2019t speak to me audibly; but it was like He said, \u201cNow, I can work with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause, before, I had been so trying to <em>control<\/em> my sin. You can\u2019t control sin! You\u2019ve got to <em>kill<\/em> it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and your image. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; and that was part of it. My sin was <em>not<\/em> just the pornography. Pornography is never isolated; it\u2019s always tied to 10,000 other things! For me, I was discontent; I was prideful; there were so many things that were feeding it. It was my area of weakness, and it was the easiest thing to run to; so that\u2019s why I think it got me so much. But I felt like I had no more sins to confess; that if somebody walked in the room and said, \u201cHey, I heard something about you,\u201d I would be like, \u201cShoot! Go ahead. Who doesn\u2019t know?\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014like there was <em>nothing<\/em>, you know? I was in the <em>light<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was <em>the hardest <\/em>year of my life. I mean, the church I hurt; my dog died\u2014you know?\u2014I was in a burning accident, where 12 percent of my body was burned: my face, my arm; all of it was 2<sup>nd<\/sup> and 3<sup>rd<\/sup>-degree burns. It was a string of thing, after thing, after thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re engaged at this time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> I was; yes. My wife sent wedding invitations from the burn ward in Dallas. We didn\u2019t know if I\u2019d ever have my face back; we had no idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking she read the letter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014knows about the letter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> She was there for the whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But she\u2019s thinking, \u201cI\u2019m with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; and I don\u2019t think she was blind. I think she was so reminded in this\u2014at one of the meetings, she got up and said\u2014\u201cI just want you guys to know: you\u2019re right that he sinned. We should see this sin as serious. But I want you to know I\u2019m going into my engagement with this man, with eyes wide open. He has repented of this; he\u2019s tried to be humble and confess his sin before you. You\u2019ve got to decide whether you think he\u2019s qualified to be a pastor or not; those are real questions\u2014and you\u2019ve got to think through that\u2014but I want you to know that this man is <em>not<\/em> walking in the darkness anymore.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, she did that because she loved the Lord; but I think she saw it rightly, you know? I <em>had <\/em>repented by this time, and God was very kind; but it was the worst year of my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s one of the things I want to say, for whoever is listening right now, and you think: \u201cI could <em>never<\/em> tell! I could <em>never<\/em> come out into the light,\u201d \u201cYou don\u2019t know what would happen if I told my husband what I\u2019ve been doing,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I told my wife what I\u2019ve been doing,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I told my parents,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I told my church.\u201d I need you to know that it\u2019s going to be <em>hard<\/em>. It may be <em>harder<\/em> than you imagine, but I would <em>not <\/em>trade what I gained from that year for anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got to see my Lord as He is\u2014I lost my sin\u2014but I got Jesus in a fresh way. I wasn\u2019t saved again; I hadn\u2019t lost my salvation, but I knew the intimacy and the joy of the Lord in a way that I don\u2019t think would have ever been possible any other way. Hebrews 12 talks about that: \u201cDiscipline is not enjoyable for the moment,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like the understatement of the New Testament; right?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014he says, \u201cBut it produces the peaceful fruit of righteousness,\u201d and that peace that passes understanding. If you came in here and said, \u201cI know everything about you,\u201d I would <em>not<\/em> be scared; because it\u2019s in the light, and Jesus has paid it all; and I\u2019m <em>free<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt doesn\u2019t mean I couldn\u2019t be tempted. On the plane, when I\u2019m flying here, the guy next to me was watching some show with all kinds of make-out scenes. I\u2019m just like, \u201cOf course!\u201d So I have to turn myself to look the other way. And of course, there\u2019s a part of me that\u2019s like, \u201cWell, maybe one little look.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo! Come on! Jesus is <em>better<\/em>,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the fight, all the way, until we see Him face to face.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want you to know that, if you\u2019re in the midst of that battle, there\u2019s a way out. There\u2019s a way out, and Jesus paved it with His blood. He will walk with you. And whatever it costs you, it will be worth it; because He will <em>never<\/em> leave you or forsake you.<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Listeners can\u2019t see this, but Garrett has his Bible right beside him. I wish you all could see it, because it\u2019s marked up. You can tell that this sucker is worn. You have been in the Word; you can tell that it\u2019s been your lifeline.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It is my life. I lived by lies for so long\u2014both as a non-believer and as a believer\u2014I mean, I got duped. We need His Word; His Word is truth. And He <em>never<\/em> breaks His promises! He <em>always<\/em> keeps them, including this one: that He\u2019s better than sin, and that He will help you to find freedom from whatever bondage you\u2019re in right now. You <em>don\u2019t<\/em> have to always be like that! It doesn\u2019t mean you won\u2019t always struggle, but it does mean you don\u2019t have to be ensnared. There\u2019s a way out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s talk about finding freedom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because I\u2019m guessing\u2014did you end up having to leave that church?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You stayed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> I stayed, by God\u2019s grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So they received you,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> They did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which is a beautiful thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It was a hard year; it was a hard year. I had a lot of offers to go to other places, and even some counsel that I probably should, because it was really hard. But one of the things the Lord convinced me of is that I had made this mess, and I needed to walk through it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know what? What the Lord did in me, He then did in that church. Some people left, and I totally understand why; but there\u2019s something else that left in those days, and that was the spirit of hiding\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014and self-righteousness. People didn\u2019t hide anymore as much. You know, people still struggled with stuff; but the amount of people, who began to confess adulteries, and anger, and stealing, and lying, and their own porn problems\u2014and everything else you can imagine\u2014because all of a sudden, what they saw was that, in the light, there\u2019s safety and grace. It may hurt; but Jesus is going to put the balm of His blood upon you, and He\u2019s going to bring healing; and there\u2019s <em>life <\/em>in the light!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe began to be a community that learned to walk with a new kind of culture: a culture of confession, and repentance, and running to the throne of grace to receive grace and mercy in a time of need. And that really changed because I understood, all of a sudden\u2014I went to a Christian counselor during this time, and his name is John\u2014he was the first brother who helped me to understand that the gospel was not just for non-Christians, but it is for Christians. He helped me to see that the gospel is for broken Christians too. We never graduate from being broken, desperate, needy sinners. We don\u2019t stop that! We need it increasingly so. When we sin, as a believer, we sin with eyes wide open, with the Spirit indwelling us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s all the more grievous; right? \u201cWhere sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.\u201d So praise God that there\u2019s help and there\u2019s hope! We stayed for another three years, and the Lord helped us to complete that chapter in a time. When I left, it wasn\u2019t because of scandal. It was because, \u201cYou know what? I think I\u2019ve led you guys as far as I can.\u201d I went and served under another pastor for about a year\u2014it was kind of my practical PhD\u2014and then I went from there out to help revitalize a church outside of Washington, DC; and I\u2019ve been there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There is a beauty to that. I feel like, when Dave confessed at our church\u2014and I think you had been beyond it, Dave\u2014because you weren\u2019t pastoring when [you] came out of <em>your<\/em> porn struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But when you confessed to the church that that had been a struggle, and that our marriage\u2014like, when we were struggling in our marriage\u2014we would talk about it. We would say: \u201cLeave your mask at the door. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Amen, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cCome in free, in terms of who you are and what you\u2019re struggling with, because we will meet you where you are; because that\u2019s what Jesus does\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s what He does; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHe meets us right where we are.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember when I\u2014I mean, I can see it\u2014back then, we were renting a space; you know? We used to call ourselves: \u201cThe church where, if you can find us, you can join us\u201d; because we had a different hotel or whatever. We were at this Michigan State Management Center the night I decided, \u201cI need to confess my struggle.\u201d We just started\u2014first year\u2014and just a couple hundred people coming at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember my co-founder came up, after I got off the stage; and he just looked at me and he goes, \u201cYou just changed this church.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d And I wasn\u2019t thinking, \u201cI\u2019m setting sort of a core value for us\u201d; but he was like, \u201cYou just set a core value; you just said to this church, \u2018This is a place where you don\u2019t have to fake and hide.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019You can be honest, and Jesus will meet you right there.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And looking back, 30 years later, he was right. It was like it became known as the place where the grace of Jesus will meet you where you are, not where you\u2019re <em>pretending<\/em> to be; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But He won\u2019t\u2014He\u2019s so loving\u2014He won\u2019t let you <em>stay<\/em> there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and He\u2019s going to surround you with a community, which is what you did. You said, \u201cI have to say this out loud to somebody, so they can come into my darkness and bring the light and me out of there\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; and that\u2019s where the next chapter is: learning, then, to live as a Christian like that; so we don\u2019t want it to be just like one big, epic confession\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014and then be like, \u201cThat\u2019s it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> But like, \u201cNow, how do you cultivate the Christian life that is oriented toward heaven\/toward Christ?\u2014where we\u2019re all helping one another\/encouraging one another, \u2018as long as the day is called \u201ctoday,\u201d so that we will not be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.\u2019 How do we learn to confess, on a regular [basis] to one another, and live in the light?\u201d Because anything left in the dark, the devil will use. When you walk in the light, as He is in the light, there\u2019s fellowship and freedom and joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s the way that Christ intends us to follow Him. It\u2019s possible; you know? And there\u2019s no perfect church. I mean, our church isn\u2019t perfect now, by any stretch of the imagination. We\u2019re struggling; you know, we all still want to hide stuff; nobody wants to\u2014you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> We fight against it. We\u2019ll regularly welcome people, and be like, \u201cHey, glad that you\u2019re here. If you\u2019re looking for people who\u2019ve got it all together, you came to the <em>wrong <\/em>place; [Laughter] because <em>they<\/em> are not here! None of us are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> But that\u2019s the Spirit of Christ; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> He welcomes us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, what\u2019s interesting is\u2014your book, <em>Pure in Heart: Sexual Sins and the Promises of God<\/em>\u2014all we\u2019ve covered so far is like the first couple of chapters. [Laughter] I mean, seriously, we\u2019ve got to step into: \u201cWhat does purity look like?\u201d \u201cHow does God deliver us and bring us to victory and freedom?\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes, there\u2019s so much; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, a lot of that is the rest of your book; and I think we need to talk more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I want to say, \u201cWell done!\u2014like the letter\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cthe \u2018letter\u2019 that you wrote\u2014the fact that that was read and then you confessed it and talked about it in front of your whole church\u2014that is <em>not<\/em> an easy thing to do. I can see that you\u2019ve changed your entire life and legacy as a result of that courageous step.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; the Lord gives the strength.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> I was too weak to do that by myself. He brought me to the end of myself, and He used other people to help me; but I do praise Him for it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we do too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It was the best decision I\u2019ve ever made besides following Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I would add this: \u201cIf you\u2019re listening, and you\u2019ve got that secret in the dark, and nobody knows; the dark wins every time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019ve got to choose to do what Garrett did, and say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to write a letter,\u2019 or \u2018I\u2019ve got to make a phone call,\u2019\u2014like\u2014\u2018Somebody\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; don\u2019t wait.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201c\u2019Somebody has to know my struggle.\u2019 Because victory is on the other side of that confession. It\u2019s where it begins: is when you bring it into the light. Today\u2019s your day.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Many of us know that mold festers in the dark\u2014it grows in dark places; it multiplies\u2014and it causes destruction as well. Sin is exactly the same. God wants us to drag our sin, kicking and screaming, into the light; because that\u2019s where healing is. That\u2019s where transformation takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I love about Garrett Kell and his conversation today with Dave and Ann Wilson is that it was a practical and encouraging conversation that really raises the bar, but also saturates us with grace. It helps us to know: \u201cHey, we\u2019re not alone! We\u2019re not alone in our struggles here.\u201d When we\u2019re honest and transparent about them, God will change us; and then, in turn, bring glory to His name so the gospel can go forth. Christians are forgiven failures; and it\u2019s helpful to know that, even pastors are forgiven failures too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGarrett has written a book called <em>Pure in Heart: Sexual Sin and the Promises of God. <\/em>For many of us, who are trapped in sexual sin, we believe that, sometimes, there is <em>just no <\/em>escape. He helps us to <em>know<\/em> that there is good news in the gospel, not just at salvation, but in our present struggles today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you want to find <em>great<\/em> answers to this very common struggle amongst many of us, you can pick up a copy of Garrett Kell\u2019s book, <em>Pure in Heart, <\/em>in our FamilyLife Resource Center. You can head to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to order a copy; or you can give us a call at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd while you\u2019re there, many of you know that <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>is listener-supported. While you\u2019re there, ordering a copy of Garrett\u2019s book, if you make a donation of any amount all this week, we want to send you a copy of Sharon Jaynes\u2019s book, <em>When You Don\u2019t Like Your Story<\/em>. I think it\u2019s very interesting how we\u2019re talking about this topic with Garrett Kell, when it comes to sexual sin, and how the shame of that can really help us feel embarrassed about our story\/about some of the things in our past. That\u2019s why this book by Sharon Jaynes is so incredibly helpful; because we can look at our story and go, \u201cYou know what? I just really don\u2019t like that very much\u201d; but her question is: \u201cWhat if your worst chapters could actually become your greatest victories?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod is in the business of taking the ugly parts of our lives, turning them around, and giving glory to Himself in the process. So when you make a donation of any amount at FamilyLifeToday.com, we\u2019ll send you a copy of Sharon Jaynes\u2019s book, <em>When You Don\u2019t Like Your Story.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to continue talking one more time with Garrett Kell about: \u201cWhat does it mean to run the race with purity from the beginning to the end?\u201d That\u2019s coming up tomorrow; we hope you can join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:49"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.55M"],"filesize_raw":["25742424"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307430.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307430.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and pastor Garrett Kell lived in the agony of his own secrets and porn addiction. But God used his breakdown for healing in Garrett--&amp; his church.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Today\u2019s conversation on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> covers some sensitive, but important, subjects that might not be good for younger ears; so please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast. Now, let\u2019s jump into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Jesus was <em>very<\/em> patient with sexual sinners; He was very tender with them. But He was <em>hard<\/em> against religious hypocrites. And you\u2019ve got to pick: \u201cAre you going to be a broken, humble sinner, who needs Him; or are you going to be a religious hypocrite?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can remember: often, men in our church would set up appointments to come see me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014constantly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, you know, you\u2019re a pastor\u2014and you talk about different things, and you hit a chord with somebody\u2014so they\u2019ll come in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; so when they\u2019d come in, did you think, \u201cOh, I know what this is about\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, often, they would sort of stumble around; because I could tell they were <em>afraid<\/em> to really talk about why they were there. You know, you\u2019re talking and laughing; but I can sense them getting nervous. Usually\u2014and I\u2019m not kidding\u2014it felt like eight out of ten guys had a porn struggle. Because I had, from the pulpit said, \u201cI have struggled with it,\u201d they felt comfortable, like, \u201cWell, if he struggled with it, I can go in and talk to him about it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut they were a little afraid to bring it up. They\u2019d bring it up\u2014and I\u2019ll never forget this one time\u2014Bruce, one of the drummers in our band\u2014and I played bass, so I knew Bruce really well\u2014he sets up this appointment. I\u2019m like, \u201cWhy would Bruce want to meet? I mean, we talk all the time! We\u2019re in the band together\u201d; right? And he comes in, and he\u2019s hem-hawing around. I finally go, \u201cOkay, Bruce, I know why you\u2019re here.\u201d He goes, \u201cWhy?\u201d I go, \u201cYou\u2019re struggling with porn; I know every guy that I talk to struggles with porn. So that\u2019s okay. Let\u2019s go; let\u2019s talk about it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe goes, \u201cDude! No! I don\u2019t struggle with porn. Why do you say that?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, you know, a lot of guys are like you. They\u2019re hesitant to tell me what\u2019s going on, so I figured that\u2019s what it is.\u201d I go, \u201cWhy are you here?\u201d And he goes, \u201cWell, I just gave my life to Christ, and I was hoping you could like <em>disciple me<\/em>!\u201d [Laughter] I was like, \u201cAwesome, man! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> The drummer got saved\u2014that\u2019s better!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThis is great!\u201d; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019ll take it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never forget that moment; because I got to the point, where I thought, \u201cThis is universal: every guy.\u201d I didn\u2019t meet with women, so I didn\u2019t know their story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I was meeting with the women; and so often, women were saying, \u201cI have no idea what to do. My husband is struggling; I feel like I\u2019m not enough. I feel like this is about me. Help me!\u201d And then, I would also have meetings, where women are saying, \u201c<em>I\u2019m<\/em> struggling with this issue, and I don\u2019t know where to get help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so we\u2019ve got Garrett Kell back with us today\u2014pastor of a church\u2014Del Ray Baptist; did I say it right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re <em>glad <\/em>you\u2019re back. Welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Obviously, we heard your story, which is this epic, awesome, coming-to-Christ story. But then we got into, after you came to Christ\u2014and now, you\u2019ve been pastoring for years\u2014you had this secret sort of struggle that we just talked about, this pornography battle. But we didn\u2019t hear of how you came to start winning this battle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It sounded like you were hiding something, even in ministry, and nobody really knew except you. A lot of us have been there. I know our listeners, if they\u2019re being really honest, may be the only ones who know this battle. Tell us the rest of the story: I mean, what happened? You were pastoring; and yet, when you go home, you\u2019re struggling with pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; I did feel hopeless. You know, as I mentioned, there was a time, where I thought, \u201cI\u2019m just always going to be like this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> And I resolved myself to trying to figure out how to live in the duplicity\u2014it haunts you\u2014a guilty conscience is a gift from the Lord, and I was trying to hide it. Yes, I had been a pastor for about three years, and I had a pattern of\u2014every couple weeks, or every month or two, or something like that\u2014where I would retreat, either for a brief time or a more extended time and indulge in pornography, then feel super guilty and delete my search history, and call a friend and be like, \u201cHey, I just want you to know I\u2019m struggling a little bit. Pray for me!\u201d That pattern just went on, and on, and on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you wallow in that? Were you, in your head, full of shame?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> There were times that I certainly was full of shame. I felt it particularly when I was trying to counsel other people,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014where I felt the weight of my hypocrisy. There were a couple times I think I withheld some really hard words; because I knew, deep down, that I wasn\u2019t living it. I can just see how Satan\u2014he wasn\u2019t just getting me\u2014he was getting a lot of people, because of my sin struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which is interesting\u2014just to make the point that we often think our sin struggle just affects us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It does <em>not<\/em>; it always affects others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Man, oh man! I mean, the people you were ministering to; but if you\u2019re a dad or a mom, it is affecting your family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; because you\u2019re going to come in, and your mind\u2019s going to be elsewhere; or you\u2019re just <em>numb<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> You\u2019re not going to be as in tune with the needs of others; or you\u2019re going to be angry because you\u2019re ticked off: \u201cI did this again!\u201d Just the ripple effect of sin\u2014it <em>never<\/em> just affects you\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> And again, the church I was pastoring\u2014God was blessing it! People were coming to the Lord, and people were growing\u2014He was working in spite of me! During this time, I met my, now, wife. We had\u2014long story; great story\u2014her side is a lot more holy than mine. [Laughter] We met and started dating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was thinking about joining a friend on a church plant; and I said, \u201cYou know what? If I\u2019m going to work with him, I should probably let him know everything.\u201d Because I kind of felt like I just wanted to come clean. I wrote what I now call \u201cthe letter.\u201d In the letter, I chronicled all of my sexual sin from the time I had become a Christian up until then.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had told Carrie about my struggle with pornography. By His grace, the relationship really helped. There had been some distance, but I\u2019d still never been honest about where I had been. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI sent that letter to my buddy, Reid. Carrie and I hopped on a plane to fly up to Jersey, to film our promo video for the church. I get off the plane; I have a voicemail. He says, \u201cHey, let\u2019s meet up at the coffee shop.\u201d We met up at the coffee shop. I had the hardest encounter that I\u2019ve ever had. Reid\u2014he\u2019s a former Division I wrestler\u2014he sat across from me, looked me in the eyes; and he said, \u201cGarrett, I love you. But I read your letter; and I do not, in good conscience, feel like we can more forward with the church plant. To be honest with you, brother, I don\u2019t think you\u2019re qualified to be a pastor right now.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> He said, \u201cYou\u2019re not above reproach. You\u2019ve been living a lie for a long time, and you need to go back; you need to tell your elders\/your fellow pastors what\u2019s been going on.\u201d You know, I started coming up with every excuse: \u201cOh, it\u2019s been a while!\u201d or \u201cHey, you know, things are new now.\u201d He goes, \u201cNo; you\u2019ve been living a lie, and you need to tell the truth.\u201d And I knew he was right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went back home, and I gave the letter to the elders. That began\u20142007\u2014began what I call \u201cthe year of the anvil.\u201d An anvil is a hard metal surface that you lay something on, and you beat it into shape. The Lord used 2007 to break me in all the ways that I needed to [be broken]. Those guys and their families: all they wanted was a church that preached the Bible. All they wanted was to see their friends have a place they could go and hear about Jesus, that wasn\u2019t just mixed in with dead religion. That\u2019s <em>all <\/em>they wanted in a church, and I <em>hurt<\/em> them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey read the letter, and they wanted some time to think about it. We met back up, and they had some very hard words for me. One of them that I still remember\u2014a good friend to this day, his name is Will\u2014he said: \u201cYou know, Garrett, Jesus was <em>very<\/em> patient with sexual sinners; He was very tender with them. But He was <em>hard<\/em> against religious hypocrites,\u201d and \u201cYou\u2019ve got to pick: \u2018Are you going to be a broken, humble sinner, who needs Him; or are you going to be a religious hypocrite?\u2019\u201d And that struck me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he was right. Those were\u2014it was a hard word, but it was the <em>right<\/em> word\u2014I needed to hear it. In a small town, things happen. Word kind of got out about the letter somehow. People started to have questions about: \u201cHey, I heard something\u2019s going on with the pastor.\u201d As you can imagine, in a small town, it mutates. Basically, what they said is: \u201cWhat we need to do is we need to have you come up in front of the church and tell everybody what you did.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter I got done preaching on Sunday, one of the elders got up and said, \u201cI need to let all y\u2019all know\u2014many of you have probably heard\u2014Garrett has some personal things going on\/some personal sin. Tonight, at 6 o\u2019clock, we\u2019re going to meet back here, and he\u2019s going to share about it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Now, we didn\u2019t have meaningful membership; so this was basically, \u201cAnyone in this small town, who wants to hear about the pastor\u2019s sin, come on out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, boy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> So that night, the room was full. It was one of those slow-motion moments. My greatest fears were coming to pass. Because the reason I hadn\u2019t been honest this whole time\u2014like I loved the Lord! I did; I <em>loved<\/em> Him, and I just wanted people to know Him\u2014but I was <em>so afraid <\/em>that people were going to think bad of Jesus, and even more so, I was afraid they were going to think bad of me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just basically went through the whole letter, and told them everything I had done, even as their pastor, in regards to looking at pornography. I wept, and I asked for their forgiveness; told them I would do whatever they wanted me to do. If they wanted me to resign, I would resign; if they wanted me to do\u2014whatever! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m keenly aware that Jesus paid for that as well\u2014as a pastor\u2014but all of that really broke me; it really humbled me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did that look like? You say you were broken; what did that look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Fast-forward a couple weeks\/months\u2014somewhere in there\u2014because we had multiple meetings after this, where there was more of this and constantly confessing. I remember, I got to the place where I had confessed every sin that I could ever think of, and I was lying on the rug in my bedroom. It was one of those plush rugs\u2014really plush\u2014so it was all up in my grill. I remember just lying there, and I remember I had no more tears to cry. I remember saying, \u201cOkay, God; I can\u2019t think of anything else I could confess.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe didn\u2019t speak to me audibly; but it was like He said, \u201cNow, I can work with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause, before, I had been so trying to <em>control<\/em> my sin. You can\u2019t control sin! You\u2019ve got to <em>kill<\/em> it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and your image. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; and that was part of it. My sin was <em>not<\/em> just the pornography. Pornography is never isolated; it\u2019s always tied to 10,000 other things! For me, I was discontent; I was prideful; there were so many things that were feeding it. It was my area of weakness, and it was the easiest thing to run to; so that\u2019s why I think it got me so much. But I felt like I had no more sins to confess; that if somebody walked in the room and said, \u201cHey, I heard something about you,\u201d I would be like, \u201cShoot! Go ahead. Who doesn\u2019t know?\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014like there was <em>nothing<\/em>, you know? I was in the <em>light<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was <em>the hardest <\/em>year of my life. I mean, the church I hurt; my dog died\u2014you know?\u2014I was in a burning accident, where 12 percent of my body was burned: my face, my arm; all of it was 2<sup>nd<\/sup> and 3<sup>rd<\/sup>-degree burns. It was a string of thing, after thing, after thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re engaged at this time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> I was; yes. My wife sent wedding invitations from the burn ward in Dallas. We didn\u2019t know if I\u2019d ever have my face back; we had no idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking she read the letter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014knows about the letter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> She was there for the whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But she\u2019s thinking, \u201cI\u2019m with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; and I don\u2019t think she was blind. I think she was so reminded in this\u2014at one of the meetings, she got up and said\u2014\u201cI just want you guys to know: you\u2019re right that he sinned. We should see this sin as serious. But I want you to know I\u2019m going into my engagement with this man, with eyes wide open. He has repented of this; he\u2019s tried to be humble and confess his sin before you. You\u2019ve got to decide whether you think he\u2019s qualified to be a pastor or not; those are real questions\u2014and you\u2019ve got to think through that\u2014but I want you to know that this man is <em>not<\/em> walking in the darkness anymore.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, she did that because she loved the Lord; but I think she saw it rightly, you know? I <em>had <\/em>repented by this time, and God was very kind; but it was the worst year of my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s one of the things I want to say, for whoever is listening right now, and you think: \u201cI could <em>never<\/em> tell! I could <em>never<\/em> come out into the light,\u201d \u201cYou don\u2019t know what would happen if I told my husband what I\u2019ve been doing,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I told my wife what I\u2019ve been doing,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I told my parents,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if I told my church.\u201d I need you to know that it\u2019s going to be <em>hard<\/em>. It may be <em>harder<\/em> than you imagine, but I would <em>not <\/em>trade what I gained from that year for anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got to see my Lord as He is\u2014I lost my sin\u2014but I got Jesus in a fresh way. I wasn\u2019t saved again; I hadn\u2019t lost my salvation, but I knew the intimacy and the joy of the Lord in a way that I don\u2019t think would have ever been possible any other way. Hebrews 12 talks about that: \u201cDiscipline is not enjoyable for the moment,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like the understatement of the New Testament; right?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014he says, \u201cBut it produces the peaceful fruit of righteousness,\u201d and that peace that passes understanding. If you came in here and said, \u201cI know everything about you,\u201d I would <em>not<\/em> be scared; because it\u2019s in the light, and Jesus has paid it all; and I\u2019m <em>free<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt doesn\u2019t mean I couldn\u2019t be tempted. On the plane, when I\u2019m flying here, the guy next to me was watching some show with all kinds of make-out scenes. I\u2019m just like, \u201cOf course!\u201d So I have to turn myself to look the other way. And of course, there\u2019s a part of me that\u2019s like, \u201cWell, maybe one little look.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo! Come on! Jesus is <em>better<\/em>,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the fight, all the way, until we see Him face to face.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want you to know that, if you\u2019re in the midst of that battle, there\u2019s a way out. There\u2019s a way out, and Jesus paved it with His blood. He will walk with you. And whatever it costs you, it will be worth it; because He will <em>never<\/em> leave you or forsake you.<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Listeners can\u2019t see this, but Garrett has his Bible right beside him. I wish you all could see it, because it\u2019s marked up. You can tell that this sucker is worn. You have been in the Word; you can tell that it\u2019s been your lifeline.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It is my life. I lived by lies for so long\u2014both as a non-believer and as a believer\u2014I mean, I got duped. We need His Word; His Word is truth. And He <em>never<\/em> breaks His promises! He <em>always<\/em> keeps them, including this one: that He\u2019s better than sin, and that He will help you to find freedom from whatever bondage you\u2019re in right now. You <em>don\u2019t<\/em> have to always be like that! It doesn\u2019t mean you won\u2019t always struggle, but it does mean you don\u2019t have to be ensnared. There\u2019s a way out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s talk about finding freedom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because I\u2019m guessing\u2014did you end up having to leave that church?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You stayed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> I stayed, by God\u2019s grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So they received you,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> They did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which is a beautiful thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It was a hard year; it was a hard year. I had a lot of offers to go to other places, and even some counsel that I probably should, because it was really hard. But one of the things the Lord convinced me of is that I had made this mess, and I needed to walk through it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know what? What the Lord did in me, He then did in that church. Some people left, and I totally understand why; but there\u2019s something else that left in those days, and that was the spirit of hiding\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014and self-righteousness. People didn\u2019t hide anymore as much. You know, people still struggled with stuff; but the amount of people, who began to confess adulteries, and anger, and stealing, and lying, and their own porn problems\u2014and everything else you can imagine\u2014because all of a sudden, what they saw was that, in the light, there\u2019s safety and grace. It may hurt; but Jesus is going to put the balm of His blood upon you, and He\u2019s going to bring healing; and there\u2019s <em>life <\/em>in the light!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe began to be a community that learned to walk with a new kind of culture: a culture of confession, and repentance, and running to the throne of grace to receive grace and mercy in a time of need. And that really changed because I understood, all of a sudden\u2014I went to a Christian counselor during this time, and his name is John\u2014he was the first brother who helped me to understand that the gospel was not just for non-Christians, but it is for Christians. He helped me to see that the gospel is for broken Christians too. We never graduate from being broken, desperate, needy sinners. We don\u2019t stop that! We need it increasingly so. When we sin, as a believer, we sin with eyes wide open, with the Spirit indwelling us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s all the more grievous; right? \u201cWhere sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.\u201d So praise God that there\u2019s help and there\u2019s hope! We stayed for another three years, and the Lord helped us to complete that chapter in a time. When I left, it wasn\u2019t because of scandal. It was because, \u201cYou know what? I think I\u2019ve led you guys as far as I can.\u201d I went and served under another pastor for about a year\u2014it was kind of my practical PhD\u2014and then I went from there out to help revitalize a church outside of Washington, DC; and I\u2019ve been there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There is a beauty to that. I feel like, when Dave confessed at our church\u2014and I think you had been beyond it, Dave\u2014because you weren\u2019t pastoring when [you] came out of <em>your<\/em> porn struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But when you confessed to the church that that had been a struggle, and that our marriage\u2014like, when we were struggling in our marriage\u2014we would talk about it. We would say: \u201cLeave your mask at the door. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Amen, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cCome in free, in terms of who you are and what you\u2019re struggling with, because we will meet you where you are; because that\u2019s what Jesus does\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s what He does; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHe meets us right where we are.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember when I\u2014I mean, I can see it\u2014back then, we were renting a space; you know? We used to call ourselves: \u201cThe church where, if you can find us, you can join us\u201d; because we had a different hotel or whatever. We were at this Michigan State Management Center the night I decided, \u201cI need to confess my struggle.\u201d We just started\u2014first year\u2014and just a couple hundred people coming at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember my co-founder came up, after I got off the stage; and he just looked at me and he goes, \u201cYou just changed this church.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d And I wasn\u2019t thinking, \u201cI\u2019m setting sort of a core value for us\u201d; but he was like, \u201cYou just set a core value; you just said to this church, \u2018This is a place where you don\u2019t have to fake and hide.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019You can be honest, and Jesus will meet you right there.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And looking back, 30 years later, he was right. It was like it became known as the place where the grace of Jesus will meet you where you are, not where you\u2019re <em>pretending<\/em> to be; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But He won\u2019t\u2014He\u2019s so loving\u2014He won\u2019t let you <em>stay<\/em> there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and He\u2019s going to surround you with a community, which is what you did. You said, \u201cI have to say this out loud to somebody, so they can come into my darkness and bring the light and me out of there\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; and that\u2019s where the next chapter is: learning, then, to live as a Christian like that; so we don\u2019t want it to be just like one big, epic confession\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> \u2014and then be like, \u201cThat\u2019s it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> But like, \u201cNow, how do you cultivate the Christian life that is oriented toward heaven\/toward Christ?\u2014where we\u2019re all helping one another\/encouraging one another, \u2018as long as the day is called \u201ctoday,\u201d so that we will not be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.\u2019 How do we learn to confess, on a regular [basis] to one another, and live in the light?\u201d Because anything left in the dark, the devil will use. When you walk in the light, as He is in the light, there\u2019s fellowship and freedom and joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> That\u2019s the way that Christ intends us to follow Him. It\u2019s possible; you know? And there\u2019s no perfect church. I mean, our church isn\u2019t perfect now, by any stretch of the imagination. We\u2019re struggling; you know, we all still want to hide stuff; nobody wants to\u2014you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> We fight against it. We\u2019ll regularly welcome people, and be like, \u201cHey, glad that you\u2019re here. If you\u2019re looking for people who\u2019ve got it all together, you came to the <em>wrong <\/em>place; [Laughter] because <em>they<\/em> are not here! None of us are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> But that\u2019s the Spirit of Christ; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> He welcomes us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, what\u2019s interesting is\u2014your book, <em>Pure in Heart: Sexual Sins and the Promises of God<\/em>\u2014all we\u2019ve covered so far is like the first couple of chapters. [Laughter] I mean, seriously, we\u2019ve got to step into: \u201cWhat does purity look like?\u201d \u201cHow does God deliver us and bring us to victory and freedom?\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes, there\u2019s so much; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, a lot of that is the rest of your book; and I think we need to talk more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I want to say, \u201cWell done!\u2014like the letter\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cthe \u2018letter\u2019 that you wrote\u2014the fact that that was read and then you confessed it and talked about it in front of your whole church\u2014that is <em>not<\/em> an easy thing to do. I can see that you\u2019ve changed your entire life and legacy as a result of that courageous step.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; the Lord gives the strength.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> I was too weak to do that by myself. He brought me to the end of myself, and He used other people to help me; but I do praise Him for it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we do too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> It was the best decision I\u2019ve ever made besides following Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I would add this: \u201cIf you\u2019re listening, and you\u2019ve got that secret in the dark, and nobody knows; the dark wins every time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019ve got to choose to do what Garrett did, and say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to write a letter,\u2019 or \u2018I\u2019ve got to make a phone call,\u2019\u2014like\u2014\u2018Somebody\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Garrett:<\/strong> Yes; don\u2019t wait.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201c\u2019Somebody has to know my struggle.\u2019 Because victory is on the other side of that confession. It\u2019s where it begins: is when you bring it into the light. Today\u2019s your day.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Many of us know that mold festers in the dark\u2014it grows in dark places; it multiplies\u2014and it causes destruction as well. Sin is exactly the same. God wants us to drag our sin, kicking and screaming, into the light; because that\u2019s where healing is. That\u2019s where transformation takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I love about Garrett Kell and his conversation today with Dave and Ann Wilson is that it was a practical and encouraging conversation that really raises the bar, but also saturates us with grace. It helps us to know: \u201cHey, we\u2019re not alone! We\u2019re not alone in our struggles here.\u201d When we\u2019re honest and transparent about them, God will change us; and then, in turn, bring glory to His name so the gospel can go forth. Christians are forgiven failures; and it\u2019s helpful to know that, even pastors are forgiven failures too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGarrett has written a book called <em>Pure in Heart: Sexual Sin and the Promises of God. <\/em>For many of us, who are trapped in sexual sin, we believe that, sometimes, there is <em>just no <\/em>escape. He helps us to <em>know<\/em> that there is good news in the gospel, not just at salvation, but in our present struggles today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you want to find <em>great<\/em> answers to this very common struggle amongst many of us, you can pick up a copy of Garrett Kell\u2019s book, <em>Pure in Heart, <\/em>in our FamilyLife Resource Center. You can head to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to order a copy; or you can give us a call at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd while you\u2019re there, many of you know that <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>is listener-supported. While you\u2019re there, ordering a copy of Garrett\u2019s book, if you make a donation of any amount all this week, we want to send you a copy of Sharon Jaynes\u2019s book, <em>When You Don\u2019t Like Your Story<\/em>. I think it\u2019s very interesting how we\u2019re talking about this topic with Garrett Kell, when it comes to sexual sin, and how the shame of that can really help us feel embarrassed about our story\/about some of the things in our past. That\u2019s why this book by Sharon Jaynes is so incredibly helpful; because we can look at our story and go, \u201cYou know what? I just really don\u2019t like that very much\u201d; but her question is: \u201cWhat if your worst chapters could actually become your greatest victories?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod is in the business of taking the ugly parts of our lives, turning them around, and giving glory to Himself in the process. So when you make a donation of any amount at FamilyLifeToday.com, we\u2019ll send you a copy of Sharon Jaynes\u2019s book, <em>When You Don\u2019t Like Your Story.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to continue talking one more time with Garrett Kell about: \u201cWhat does it mean to run the race with purity from the beginning to the end?\u201d That\u2019s coming up tomorrow; we hope you can join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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