{"id":307423,"date":"2022-03-01T08:02:11","date_gmt":"2022-03-01T13:02:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/finding-quiet-on-gods-journey-for-you\/"},"modified":"2022-03-01T08:02:11","modified_gmt":"2022-03-01T13:02:11","slug":"finding-quiet-on-gods-journey-for-you","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-quiet-on-gods-journey-for-you\/","title":{"rendered":"Finding Quiet on God&#8217;s Journey for You"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Award-winning musician Jamie Grace has struggled with Tourette&#8217;s, ADHD, &#038; anxiety. Here&#8217;s how she&#8217;s leaning into God&#8217;s journey for her&#8211;and finding quiet.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Award-winning musician Jamie Grace has struggled with Tourette&#8217;s, ADHD, &amp; anxiety. Here&#8217;s how she&#8217;s leaning into God&#8217;s journey for her&#8211;and finding quiet.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-01.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:45","filesize":"23.57M","filesize_raw":"24719672","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873],"tags":[7045,7044],"podcast_series":[8508],"cwp_profile":[9759],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307423","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-finding-quiet","tag-jamie-grace","podcast_series-jamie-grace-finding-quiet","cwp_profile-jamie-grace","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307423\/finding-quiet-on-gods-journey-for-you","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307423\/finding-quiet-on-gods-journey-for-you","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"mQ8hPa1T8G\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-quiet-on-gods-journey-for-you\/\">Finding Quiet on God&#8217;s Journey for You<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-quiet-on-gods-journey-for-you\/embed\/#?secret=mQ8hPa1T8G\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Finding Quiet on God&#8217;s Journey for You&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"mQ8hPa1T8G\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-01.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-01.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I actually really want to know the answer to this question; because I think I know, but I don\u2019t think I know: \u201cWhat are the statements you hear most in your head?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201clike almost on repeat?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cMy husband is so handsome!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was thinking! [Laughter] That\u2019s what I figured you\u2019d say. I didn\u2019t think \u201chandsome,\u201d but I thought \u201cawesome.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026hot.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026wonderful.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026amazing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI can\u2019t believe I got this guy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay, now, seriously\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think I would say that?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, I thought\u2014you\u2019ve never even thought that one time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Maybe in our first year of marriage, but after that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s not true! I think that <em>all<\/em> the time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it\u2019s interesting; the thoughts that come through my head now are different than what used to come into my head.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What are the statements you hear most in your head?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The thoughts that come through my head now are different than what used to come into my head; because I feel like my thoughts in the past have been super toxic: \u201cI\u2019m ugly,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m fat; I need to lose weight,\u201d \u201cI need to be better; I\u2019m <em>failing<\/em>,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m not smart enough,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m not <em>doing<\/em> enough.\u201d It was just a <em>constant <\/em>barrage of that negative self-talk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd <em>nobody<\/em> would have known that; do you think? I mean, we\u2019ve been married \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t41 years; would you have thought those were my thoughts in my head? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not initially; but it didn\u2019t take long, after we were married, to realize you hear that a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I don\u2019t anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think a lot of people hear a lot of negative self-talk. You know, working with pro-athletes for 33 years\u2014of course, people are thinking, \u201cWell, you worked with the Detroit Lions; of course, there was a lot of negative self-talk!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but there was a lot of negative thoughts of guys\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014super-successful guys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that are at the highest level. And you think, \u201cWow! When they line up for a play, they are hearing: \u2018I\u2019m not good enough,\u2019 \u2018I\u2019m not going to be able to make this play.\u2019\u201d You\u2019re like, \u201cWhat in the world!? <em>How<\/em> can that be true?\u201d And that\u2019s a real thing!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I worked with their wives. I mean, these women\u2014some of these women\u2014were supermodels, or they had three degrees; they were <em>so talented<\/em>. And yet, the self-talk that they would share was so surprising; it was: \u201cI\u2019m ugly,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m stupid.\u201d Their lives showed everything <em>but<\/em> that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And the truth is\u2014and we know this\u2014\u201cHow we think is how we live.\u201d Belief\u2014you know me, as a preacher\u2014\u201cBelief dictates behavior.\u201d So whatever I\u2019m believing about myself is going to dictate the way I live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason we\u2019re bringing this up is we\u2019ve got Jamie Grace back in the studio with us. Jamie, first of all, welcome back!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Hello! It\u2019s good to <em>be<\/em> back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, you\u2019re sitting over there, smiling\/looking at us. What are you thinking as we\u2019re talking about this? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Oh, this is so great! At the very, very beginning, I was like: \u201cGuys, I\u2019m right here! [Laughter] You can stop flirting! This is really weird\u2014super cute\u2014but I shouldn\u2019t be here.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut all of that resonates with me, even when you were asking that initial question. Ironically, I do oftentimes pre-flirt with my husband in my head; because when I try to flirt out loud, it doesn\u2019t\u2014you know, I\u2019m not always very successful\u2014so I\u2019ll like practice my flirts in my head.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh, maybe I should try that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> It still doesn\u2019t <em>work<\/em>; I\u2019m not\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Practice your flirts!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you\u2019re good in your head; aren\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> To me, I\u2019m like [guy\u2019s voice], \u201cOh, that\u2019s going to do it!!\u201d And then I\u2019ll say it out loud; and he\u2019s like, \u201cBabe.\u201d [Laughter] I think he\u2019s used to it at this point, but I\u2019m so awkward. There are like fans listening, so I won\u2019t give any examples; but I\u2019m just <em>awkward<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I would love to know what goes on in your head; because you\u2019re very successful. In terms of like being a pro-athlete, you\u2019ve reached that in the singer\/song world; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; Jamie\u2019s a two-time Grammy-nominated singer\/song writer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And a Dove award winner for New Artist in 2012; am I right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie Grace:<\/strong> Yes, that was spot on; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I went on and learned all your songs. I\u2019m going to sing them. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She has a podcast called <em>The Jamie Grace Podcast<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> I do; I do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you really are successful. I mean, as the world looks at you, they would think, \u201cOh, she\u2019s made it!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you\u2019ve written a book called <em>Finding Quiet:<\/em> \u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014<em>My Journey to Peace in an Anxious World.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But in the book, you start talking about the self-talk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> \u2014those daily thoughts, and I still have them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What does it sound like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Very similar to yours, Ann. I mean, I\u2019m a first-time mom with a two-year-old\u2014especially that post-partum season; that six to twelve months\u2014I like to tell people, \u201cI\u2019m still post-partum; because it\u2019s a pandemic, so it didn\u2019t count!\u201d [Laughter] I mean, it\u2019s still that: \u201cOh, you need to lose weight,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not successful,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not doing a good job,\u201d\u2014like it\u2019s constant, and it\u2019s frustrating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve done a lot of work: just like personally in therapy, church small groups\u2014pastor\/me and my pastor\u2014stuff like that. A lot of times what will now start to happen is like a lot of pep talk\u2014you know what I mean?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> \u2014and I\u2019m proud of that. You know, a lot of times, I\u2019ll have this kind of like in my head: \u201cYou\u2019re so dumb,\u201d \u201cThat song is terrible that you wrote.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>But<\/em> I\u2019ll catch myself and kind of like, immediately, start to be like: \u201cBut the song you wrote last week wasn\u2019t that bad,\u201d and \u201cYou did a good job,\u201d \u201cYou know what else you did?\u2014you swept. Maybe it was two weeks ago, but guess what?\u2014you did it!\u201d and \u201cYou cooked dinner, and it was awesome; and your husband liked it,\u201d \u201cOh, good; we\u2019re probably going to kiss later [kissing sounds].\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve definitely done a lot of conscious work to like try to override a lot of those negative thoughts. A lot of times, I\u2019ll like do it out loud as well\u2014like even from a spiritual standpoint\u2014with Scriptures and stuff like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s a journey, and it takes a lot of work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes! So when I catch myself doing that\u2014like mentally [negative self-talk]: \u201cYou\u2019re this\u2026\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re that,\u201d\u2014I\u2019ll start walking through the house, like, \u201cYou are a child of God! You are a daughter of the Most High King!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Some people might think this is cheesy; but I mean, this genuinely\u2014sometimes, I\u2019ll quote my lyrics out loud, not in a way of like [bragging voice]: \u201cLook! I wrote it!\u201d\u2014not like that\u2014but because everything I\u2019ve written is genuinely something the Lord gave to me in a moment of desperation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Give us some lyrics that you would say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; so I have this song called <em>Daughter of the King<\/em>. It says: \u201cThe Maker of skies is the Maker of seas, the Maker of every beautiful thing: He made you; He made you too.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first time I ever said something like that, it was during a show. There was a girl in the middle of the crowd, who was\u2014later I processed\u2014was kind of the outsider in the young adult group that she was in. I just like stopped in the middle of my set; and the Lord told me to tell her, \u201cThe Maker of skies and the Maker of seas; He made your face.\u201d My lyrics aren\u2019t necessarily something that\u2019s like, \u201cOooh, I get to write something catchy.\u201d You know, they really do come from moments of the Lord really speaking to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScripture is obviously way more powerful than anything that I could come up with, so I\u2019ll just start reading Proverbs out loud. Right now, I have a Proverb book on my bathroom mirror. If something else\u2014something from Psalms, or Galatians, or Habakkuk, or whatever it is\u2014speaks to me, in a couple of weeks, I\u2019ll put that up there, too, and just try to speak <em>out loud<\/em> the words of truth; speak out loud the words of wisdom, because it can be so much more powerful than whatever is happening in my head. It can kind of just help get me into a habit of hearing those things and saying those things instead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and think even the song\u2014a very poppy song\u2014I\u2019m guessing this one was one of your Grammy nominations: <em>I Love the Way You Hold Me.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As poppy as that is, that lyric is, in some way, <em>very<\/em> profound\u2014I mean, it\u2019s said over and over in the song\u2014and TobyMac and the whole thing\u2014but then, when you think through what you\u2019re singing\u2014and you know that kids are singing this\u2014you think, \u201cA lot of times, I don\u2019t believe He\u2019s holding me right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m saying it in a song, but I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> believe the thing I\u2019m going through\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014He\u2019s got me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying, \u201cGod is God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cGod is holding me,\u201d\u2014<em>I Love the Way You Hold Me<\/em>\u2014so often, we\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if You are right now.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because the self-talk is: \u201cI\u2019m alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m struggling on my own.\u201d That simple lyric is like, \u201cNo; you\u2019re not.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Anybody who knows me knows that I have\u2014it\u2019s not an obsession, because that\u2019s not a very healthy word\u2014but my big sister is my literal hero; I love her <em>so much<\/em>. We got\u2014for her senior year in college, I was at the same college\u2014and we got an off-campus apartment. I know, we were really cool. It\u2019s a Bible college, so that kind of stuff was just like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You were <em>young<\/em>; how old were you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> We were 16 when we started college. She was 20, in her senior year; and I was like 17\/18.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait, wait, wait! Why were you starting college at 16?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> She\u2019s smarter than I am; I don\u2019t like to take too much credit for my intelligence, even though I do think maybe I\u2019m smart sometimes. The thing is\u2014when you\u2019re the oldest one, I think you\u2019re the smartest\u2014she started reading at three. My mom is just an <em>amazing<\/em> educator, and so she had Morgan reading at three. I just\/I was younger, so I was just doing whatever she was doing. So yes, okay; I think I\u2019m a little bit smart, but I credit a lot to my mom and my sister. I just showed up, and they were already doing the work! [Laughter] I was like, \u201cI might as well help them read stuff.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy sister actually graduated high school at 14 or 13. My mom wasn\u2019t ready for her to go to college, so she just made up a bunch of extra work for her to do for a couple of years until she was ready to go to college. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we were like living in this off-campus apartment, and we were supposed to do that until I was done with college, like that was going to be our thing. I was going to live in this cool apartment for three years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let me add\u2014let\u2019s go back a little bit for the people who\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014for our listeners, who maybe missed our first episode, which: \u201cGo back and listen.\u201d You were given a diagnosis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014at age eleven. Share a little bit, just as a reminder.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I had already been given this diagnosis of Turret\u2019s syndrome, which is a movement disorder\u2014a tic disorder\u2014as well as anxiety\/generalized anxiety disorder\u2014which is as a quick synopsis\u2014\u201cImagine everyday worry times 20, basically, because of neurological stuff; and then, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder; and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, which is OCD and ADHD. \u201c I had <em>all of that<\/em> that I was dealing with on a daily basis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s why I wanted our listeners to know. So now, you\u2019re in college!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; the main stipulation for college was that I went where my sister went. I wasn\u2019t as far along mental health-wise as I, maybe, thought I was going to be to go out of state, which is what I wanted to do; but it\u2019s okay, because we both graduated from a school called Point University in the Southeast, and we really loved it. I loved getting to be near her, so that was a huge blessing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then my sister went off and did the very stereotypical pastor\u2019s daughter Bible college thing and got herself a <em>suitor<\/em>. She gets so mad when I say that word. [Laughter] But she started dating someone, who is now her husband of like twelve years, super-cute; whatever!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How could she do that to you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> <em>I know!!<\/em> So here I am, in this apartment. I\u2019m supposed to be watching <em>Cheetah Girls <\/em>with my sister every night, eating pizza\u2014and they\u2019re sitting on the couch\u2014she started watching like super-hero movies all of a sudden. [Laughter] She\u2019s like, you know, I guess they are like Christian dating, so I\u2019m still in the house. I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is just <em>dumb<\/em>! Be your own accountability. I need to go!\u201d I was <em>miserable<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, that\u2019s how I wrote <em>Hold Me, <\/em>because I was just like, \u201cThis is <em>stupid!\u201d <\/em>[Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s when you wrote <em>Hold Me<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> All of my songs that sound like I\u2019m in a good mood\u2014I was crying\u2014all of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> I was crying my eyes out when I wrote <em>Hold Me. <\/em>I was sitting in my room, all by myself, just like, \u201cI\u2019m going to be single forever,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cNo one\u2019s holding <em>me<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know that about that song, because it\u2019s so filled with joy; and yet, you were saying, \u201cNo.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the other thing I find interesting [about] what you just said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You do\u2014I think it\u2019s your second chapter\u2014you call it the \u201cThe Noise of Feelings.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost how you stifle and hold feelings in. When I read that, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, boy! I do the <em>same<\/em> thing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t like them. I sort of\u2014I cry at movies\u2014I don\u2019t cry in life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you just shared how you <em>express<\/em> your feelings. Talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; well, I really do have a love\/hate relationship with feelings. I do <em>love<\/em> to feel feels. You know, I love\u2014especially when it comes to music\u2014it\u2019s such a safe space for me to feel, whether I\u2019m listening to a heavily emotive song, or I\u2019m playing a very emotional song\/writing something very personal\u2014I <em>really<\/em> do enjoy that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it can oftentimes be difficult, around other humans, for me to go there, emotionally. With my family, sometimes\u2014my mom is so sweet; and she\u2019ll say, \u201cOh, you know, when I\u2019m with your daughter, it reminds me of when you\u2026\u201d\u2014and I\u2019m like, \u201cOoh! No, mom! Nachos;\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cI just can\u2019t do it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you say, \u201cnachos\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes! How about: \u201cJust change the subject\u201d? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt our wedding, I laughed through the <em>entire<\/em> ceremony\u2014not like dis-ing or anything\u2014but I just thought it was funny. I was like, \u201cThis is <em>hilarious<\/em> that I tricked this really hot guy into marrying me.\u201d [Laughter] I was just laughing the whole time. But then I cried later; I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t want all these <em>people <\/em>to see me cry!\u201d It\u2019s so weird; I\u2019ve <em>always<\/em> had a really challenging, back-and-forth relationship with feelings; but as I get older, I\u2019ve just tried to become more and more intentional with choosing to feel and choosing to be okay with feeling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Lord is not mad at me because of my feelings. The Lord is not upset with me for having feelings; you know? I think, for so long, I just wanted\u2014well, I still feel this way sometimes\u2014I just wanted everybody to be happy; I just wanted everybody to be okay, so I never wanted my feelings to interrupt that. I was just always trying to be conscious of: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m dealing with this medical diagnosis.\u201d Again, it\u2019s a journey; I still deal with really bad days of Tourrete\u2019s stuff or anxiety stuff. So I\u2019m just\/even when I\u2019m having those days, I\u2019m constantly thinking, \u201cIs my husband okay?\u201d If I feel too much, then I can\u2019t be conscious if he\u2019s okay. If I <em>feel<\/em> too much, then I\u2019m not looking out for my daughter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen reality is\u2014the Lord has given me a spouse, and that\u2019s a part of marriage\u2014me being able to be open about how I\u2019m feeling and the challenges that I\u2019m facing, and vice versa. And the reality of parenthood and motherhood is that she needs to see me cry. She needs to know that: \u201cMommy gets sad sometimes. Mommy\u2019s working through it, and it\u2019s going to get better\u201d; you know? My own relationship with feelings kind of gets in the way of that sometimes, and kind of just causes me to shut down a little bit and only practice feelings when songs are on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s pretty big. Dave, I\u2019m looking at you, like you can relate to that; because you have run from your feelings, in the past, a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I didn\u2019t know it for decades, but it was a defense mechanism to protect myself. I can remember, you know, being the father and the pastor\u2014doing my sons\u2019 weddings\u2014I can remember standing in the chapel, looking at my son and his new bride, and feeling like, \u201cI can\u2019t <em>feel<\/em>! I should <em>feel<\/em> this moment.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And part of me is like, \u201cWell, I have a job to do; I have to officiate the wedding\u201d; but I think I was <em>afraid. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I know this\u2014from Ann in our marriage\u2014she <em>wants<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes! I want you to feel and emote that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because I think, in some ways, you\u2019re not fully present when we guard your feelings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was reading your book\u2014even about finding quiet and finding peace\u2014sometimes, we\u2019re <em>afraid<\/em> to step into those feelings; and we never get to the other side, which is peace, if we\u2019re willing to go there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It may be scary; it may be uncomfortable, but it\u2019s like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, for me, I feel like, \u201cMan, I want to make the last 30 years of my life <em>feeling <\/em>years\u201d; you know, in the sense that I want to cry at life, not just in a movie theater. Part of that is like I\u2019ve got to be willing to go into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things you say in your book is: \u201cI started to realize that it wasn\u2019t my purpose to bring people joy.\u201d A lot of us, I think\u2014especially as a mom\u2014I could feel that. I <em>do<\/em> feel that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014for my kids; for my friends\u2014I want to bring them joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou say: \u201cInstead, it was my purpose to live a life full of joy in hopes of directing people to see the Source.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; every few months, I go through this\u2014I mean, this is a little bit of my personality; this is a little bit of my anxiety as a human; this is a little bit of my anxiety disorder\u2014but every few months, I go through an \u201cI need to fix the world\u201d phase. I\u2019ve gotten to the point now that I can talk myself out of it within a day now, so that\u2019s a <em>huge<\/em> step! Because the first time I tried to fix the world, I was about seven. It took me <em>months<\/em> to realize, \u201cI\u2019m doing too much.\u201d I have to remind myself that I\u2019m not called to be all things to all people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> You know, I think a lot of times\u2014and this is not to be received as a big, theological unraveling or anything\u2014but I think, a lot of times, as believers, we get caught up in words like \u201cpurpose\u201d and \u201ccalling.\u201d Especially young adults who listen to my podcast; they ask: \u201cWhat am I supposed to do?\u201d \u201cWhat college am I supposed to go to? I don\u2019t want to make the wrong choice!\u201d \u201cWhat career? I don\u2019t want to do the wrong job,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t want to marry the wrong person! How do you know the <em>one<\/em>?\u201d You know, this kind of grand scale of: \u201cWhat is my purpose?\u201d and \u201cWhat is my calling?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, the Lord is like, \u201cI want you to wake up tomorrow and extend grace to everyone you see. That\u2019s your purpose for today\u201d; you know? Just choosing to be more present has allowed me to do that. Even\u2014you know, what you were saying a minute ago about your son\u2019s wedding: \u201cI\u2019m just trying to do the job and, you know, not feel the feels. I\u2019m just trying to complete the task at hand\u201d; you know?\u2014I dealt with a lot of that, getting famous at 17, you know, with my music. My job was to make everybody happy. If I stopped making people happy: \u201cI\u2019m not relevant anymore; I\u2019m not famous anymore,\u201d\u2014and then, I\u2019m seen as a failure\u2014\u201cIf I stop playing 200\/300 shows a year, will people see [me] as not successful?\u201d; you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was one of the main things in my life that really took a hit on my mental health and really took a hit on my feelings. I was so much better at feelings before I was famous. [Laughter] I had such a healthier relationship with feelings before I realized that feelings could easily become a currency; and that it was just my job to keep all the feelings as high and happy as possible, at whatever expense to myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what happens\u2014whether you\u2019re a mom, or an artist, or a dad at a wedding\/a pastor at a wedding\u2014when you\u2019re so caught up with: \u201cLet me just monitor everybody else\u2019s feelings, and create and serve joy on a platter,\u201d as though it\u2019s mine to give; you know? When we\u2019re constantly doing that, then we\u2019re completely neglecting ourselves. We\u2019ve completely avoided every aspect of who God calls us to be and what that purpose looks like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, that\u2019s really where the book started for me: realizing that, by trying to make everybody so happy\u2014by literally, being one of two of the main musical resources for most Christian families in America for like four years, who had young girls\u2014by just stepping into that role of being \u201cit,\u201d I was completely neglecting who God made <em>me<\/em> to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> I was completely neglecting any kind of feeling of just doing the job. There was no connection to my own feelings and my own needs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinding quiet became a literal thing: I walked away from all of it, and I just sat in a quiet house and healed for a long time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that that\u2019s important\u2014what you just said\u2014\u201cI just sat in the house and healed.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think men are like this; but women, maybe, it\u2019s a different way\u2014we\u2019re fixing; we\u2019re helping; we\u2019re taking care of so many people\u2014that, a lot of times, it feels selfish to focus on our own mental health.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I talk to a lot of moms and women, who are <em>really<\/em> struggling with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So Jamie, I think it\u2019s really wise\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to say, \u201cIt\u2019s not selfish; you need to plug into Jesus.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think you\u2019re saying that therapy has really helped, and that can be a great thing. Also, to have some other people\u2014your best friend\u2019s your sister, your mom\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014so you have some other women around you, speaking life and really walking you through some of those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Those things are good; but to go to Jesus too. He says, \u201cCome to Me, all you who are weary\u2026\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014I think that\u2019s the first place to go, and He\u2019ll give us wisdom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Mental health is such a tricky thing sometimes; because we say we want to get better, but a lot of times, the way that we act kind of communicates that we <em>don\u2019t <\/em>want to get better. One of the ways that Jamie Grace has talked with Dave and Ann Wilson today to help us improve in our mental health journey is to lean on other people and discover that, as we invite others <em>into<\/em> our lives, Jesus can work in and through the people, who are around us, to help us on our journey. It\u2019s really just a matter of humbling ourselves and saying, \u201cYes, I need community.\u201d Jamie Grace has written a book called, <em>Finding Quiet: My Journey to Peace in an Anxious World. <\/em>Oh, my goodness, do we live in an anxious world right now. Again, you can find her book at FamilyLifeToday.com and request your copy there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinding quiet is something that we search for all the time in this anxious world. Easter is a time where we can find quiet in unique new ways, because we\u2019re focusing on the quiet Jesus has provided for us in our souls and in our spirits by the fact that He died for our sins and was resurrected, which we\u2019re going to celebrate at Easter very soon. This Lenten season, which are the weeks leading up to Easter, are a time that we need to find peace; we need to find quiet; we need to refocus our hearts on the truth of Who Jesus is and what He\u2019s done for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll this week at FamilyLifeToday.com, if you make a donation of any amount, we will help you focus in a very specific way by sending you a copy of <em>Rich Wounds: The Countless Treasures of the Life, Death, and Triumph of Jesus. <\/em>This is a 30-day devotional that helps you, in this Lenten season, focus appropriately on what\u2019s coming: the celebration of Jesus\u2019s resurrection. We think this is an important book that can act as a devotional for you to help get your heart ready for this Easter season. With a donation of any amount at FamilyLifeToday.com, we would love to send you a copy of <em>Rich Wounds<\/em>, to help you take a deeper look at Jesus\u2019s life and sacrificial death. Again, you can make your donation at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call and order at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf this conversation with Dave and Ann Wilson and Jamie Grace has been encouraging to you, or any of the programs have been helpful for you, we\u2019d love for you to share today\u2019s podcast with a friend or a family member. While you\u2019re there, it could really advance the gospel work of <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>if you\u2019d scroll down and rate and review us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to be talking with David Mathis, the author of <em>Rich Wounds, <\/em>as he helps focus our hearts toward the profound reflections that help us meditate on and marvel at the sacrificial love of Jesus. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:25:45"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.57M"],"filesize_raw":["24719672"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307423.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307423.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776513801;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Award-winning musician Jamie Grace has struggled with Tourette's, ADHD, &amp; anxiety. Here's how she's leaning into God's journey for her--and finding quiet.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-03-01.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I actually really want to know the answer to this question; because I think I know, but I don\u2019t think I know: \u201cWhat are the statements you hear most in your head?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201clike almost on repeat?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cMy husband is so handsome!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was thinking! [Laughter] That\u2019s what I figured you\u2019d say. I didn\u2019t think \u201chandsome,\u201d but I thought \u201cawesome.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026hot.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026wonderful.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026amazing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI can\u2019t believe I got this guy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay, now, seriously\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think I would say that?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, I thought\u2014you\u2019ve never even thought that one time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Maybe in our first year of marriage, but after that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s not true! I think that <em>all<\/em> the time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it\u2019s interesting; the thoughts that come through my head now are different than what used to come into my head.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What are the statements you hear most in your head?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The thoughts that come through my head now are different than what used to come into my head; because I feel like my thoughts in the past have been super toxic: \u201cI\u2019m ugly,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m fat; I need to lose weight,\u201d \u201cI need to be better; I\u2019m <em>failing<\/em>,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m not smart enough,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m not <em>doing<\/em> enough.\u201d It was just a <em>constant <\/em>barrage of that negative self-talk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd <em>nobody<\/em> would have known that; do you think? I mean, we\u2019ve been married \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t41 years; would you have thought those were my thoughts in my head? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not initially; but it didn\u2019t take long, after we were married, to realize you hear that a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I don\u2019t anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think a lot of people hear a lot of negative self-talk. You know, working with pro-athletes for 33 years\u2014of course, people are thinking, \u201cWell, you worked with the Detroit Lions; of course, there was a lot of negative self-talk!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but there was a lot of negative thoughts of guys\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014super-successful guys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that are at the highest level. And you think, \u201cWow! When they line up for a play, they are hearing: \u2018I\u2019m not good enough,\u2019 \u2018I\u2019m not going to be able to make this play.\u2019\u201d You\u2019re like, \u201cWhat in the world!? <em>How<\/em> can that be true?\u201d And that\u2019s a real thing!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I worked with their wives. I mean, these women\u2014some of these women\u2014were supermodels, or they had three degrees; they were <em>so talented<\/em>. And yet, the self-talk that they would share was so surprising; it was: \u201cI\u2019m ugly,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m stupid.\u201d Their lives showed everything <em>but<\/em> that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And the truth is\u2014and we know this\u2014\u201cHow we think is how we live.\u201d Belief\u2014you know me, as a preacher\u2014\u201cBelief dictates behavior.\u201d So whatever I\u2019m believing about myself is going to dictate the way I live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason we\u2019re bringing this up is we\u2019ve got Jamie Grace back in the studio with us. Jamie, first of all, welcome back!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Hello! It\u2019s good to <em>be<\/em> back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, you\u2019re sitting over there, smiling\/looking at us. What are you thinking as we\u2019re talking about this? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Oh, this is so great! At the very, very beginning, I was like: \u201cGuys, I\u2019m right here! [Laughter] You can stop flirting! This is really weird\u2014super cute\u2014but I shouldn\u2019t be here.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut all of that resonates with me, even when you were asking that initial question. Ironically, I do oftentimes pre-flirt with my husband in my head; because when I try to flirt out loud, it doesn\u2019t\u2014you know, I\u2019m not always very successful\u2014so I\u2019ll like practice my flirts in my head.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh, maybe I should try that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> It still doesn\u2019t <em>work<\/em>; I\u2019m not\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Practice your flirts!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you\u2019re good in your head; aren\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> To me, I\u2019m like [guy\u2019s voice], \u201cOh, that\u2019s going to do it!!\u201d And then I\u2019ll say it out loud; and he\u2019s like, \u201cBabe.\u201d [Laughter] I think he\u2019s used to it at this point, but I\u2019m so awkward. There are like fans listening, so I won\u2019t give any examples; but I\u2019m just <em>awkward<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I would love to know what goes on in your head; because you\u2019re very successful. In terms of like being a pro-athlete, you\u2019ve reached that in the singer\/song world; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; Jamie\u2019s a two-time Grammy-nominated singer\/song writer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And a Dove award winner for New Artist in 2012; am I right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie Grace:<\/strong> Yes, that was spot on; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I went on and learned all your songs. I\u2019m going to sing them. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She has a podcast called <em>The Jamie Grace Podcast<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> I do; I do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you really are successful. I mean, as the world looks at you, they would think, \u201cOh, she\u2019s made it!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you\u2019ve written a book called <em>Finding Quiet:<\/em> \u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014<em>My Journey to Peace in an Anxious World.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But in the book, you start talking about the self-talk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> \u2014those daily thoughts, and I still have them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What does it sound like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Very similar to yours, Ann. I mean, I\u2019m a first-time mom with a two-year-old\u2014especially that post-partum season; that six to twelve months\u2014I like to tell people, \u201cI\u2019m still post-partum; because it\u2019s a pandemic, so it didn\u2019t count!\u201d [Laughter] I mean, it\u2019s still that: \u201cOh, you need to lose weight,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not successful,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re not doing a good job,\u201d\u2014like it\u2019s constant, and it\u2019s frustrating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve done a lot of work: just like personally in therapy, church small groups\u2014pastor\/me and my pastor\u2014stuff like that. A lot of times what will now start to happen is like a lot of pep talk\u2014you know what I mean?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> \u2014and I\u2019m proud of that. You know, a lot of times, I\u2019ll have this kind of like in my head: \u201cYou\u2019re so dumb,\u201d \u201cThat song is terrible that you wrote.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>But<\/em> I\u2019ll catch myself and kind of like, immediately, start to be like: \u201cBut the song you wrote last week wasn\u2019t that bad,\u201d and \u201cYou did a good job,\u201d \u201cYou know what else you did?\u2014you swept. Maybe it was two weeks ago, but guess what?\u2014you did it!\u201d and \u201cYou cooked dinner, and it was awesome; and your husband liked it,\u201d \u201cOh, good; we\u2019re probably going to kiss later [kissing sounds].\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve definitely done a lot of conscious work to like try to override a lot of those negative thoughts. A lot of times, I\u2019ll like do it out loud as well\u2014like even from a spiritual standpoint\u2014with Scriptures and stuff like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s a journey, and it takes a lot of work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes! So when I catch myself doing that\u2014like mentally [negative self-talk]: \u201cYou\u2019re this\u2026\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re that,\u201d\u2014I\u2019ll start walking through the house, like, \u201cYou are a child of God! You are a daughter of the Most High King!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Some people might think this is cheesy; but I mean, this genuinely\u2014sometimes, I\u2019ll quote my lyrics out loud, not in a way of like [bragging voice]: \u201cLook! I wrote it!\u201d\u2014not like that\u2014but because everything I\u2019ve written is genuinely something the Lord gave to me in a moment of desperation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Give us some lyrics that you would say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; so I have this song called <em>Daughter of the King<\/em>. It says: \u201cThe Maker of skies is the Maker of seas, the Maker of every beautiful thing: He made you; He made you too.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first time I ever said something like that, it was during a show. There was a girl in the middle of the crowd, who was\u2014later I processed\u2014was kind of the outsider in the young adult group that she was in. I just like stopped in the middle of my set; and the Lord told me to tell her, \u201cThe Maker of skies and the Maker of seas; He made your face.\u201d My lyrics aren\u2019t necessarily something that\u2019s like, \u201cOooh, I get to write something catchy.\u201d You know, they really do come from moments of the Lord really speaking to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScripture is obviously way more powerful than anything that I could come up with, so I\u2019ll just start reading Proverbs out loud. Right now, I have a Proverb book on my bathroom mirror. If something else\u2014something from Psalms, or Galatians, or Habakkuk, or whatever it is\u2014speaks to me, in a couple of weeks, I\u2019ll put that up there, too, and just try to speak <em>out loud<\/em> the words of truth; speak out loud the words of wisdom, because it can be so much more powerful than whatever is happening in my head. It can kind of just help get me into a habit of hearing those things and saying those things instead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and think even the song\u2014a very poppy song\u2014I\u2019m guessing this one was one of your Grammy nominations: <em>I Love the Way You Hold Me.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As poppy as that is, that lyric is, in some way, <em>very<\/em> profound\u2014I mean, it\u2019s said over and over in the song\u2014and TobyMac and the whole thing\u2014but then, when you think through what you\u2019re singing\u2014and you know that kids are singing this\u2014you think, \u201cA lot of times, I don\u2019t believe He\u2019s holding me right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m saying it in a song, but I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> believe the thing I\u2019m going through\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014He\u2019s got me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying, \u201cGod is God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cGod is holding me,\u201d\u2014<em>I Love the Way You Hold Me<\/em>\u2014so often, we\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if You are right now.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because the self-talk is: \u201cI\u2019m alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m struggling on my own.\u201d That simple lyric is like, \u201cNo; you\u2019re not.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Anybody who knows me knows that I have\u2014it\u2019s not an obsession, because that\u2019s not a very healthy word\u2014but my big sister is my literal hero; I love her <em>so much<\/em>. We got\u2014for her senior year in college, I was at the same college\u2014and we got an off-campus apartment. I know, we were really cool. It\u2019s a Bible college, so that kind of stuff was just like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You were <em>young<\/em>; how old were you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> We were 16 when we started college. She was 20, in her senior year; and I was like 17\/18.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait, wait, wait! Why were you starting college at 16?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> She\u2019s smarter than I am; I don\u2019t like to take too much credit for my intelligence, even though I do think maybe I\u2019m smart sometimes. The thing is\u2014when you\u2019re the oldest one, I think you\u2019re the smartest\u2014she started reading at three. My mom is just an <em>amazing<\/em> educator, and so she had Morgan reading at three. I just\/I was younger, so I was just doing whatever she was doing. So yes, okay; I think I\u2019m a little bit smart, but I credit a lot to my mom and my sister. I just showed up, and they were already doing the work! [Laughter] I was like, \u201cI might as well help them read stuff.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy sister actually graduated high school at 14 or 13. My mom wasn\u2019t ready for her to go to college, so she just made up a bunch of extra work for her to do for a couple of years until she was ready to go to college. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we were like living in this off-campus apartment, and we were supposed to do that until I was done with college, like that was going to be our thing. I was going to live in this cool apartment for three years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let me add\u2014let\u2019s go back a little bit for the people who\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014for our listeners, who maybe missed our first episode, which: \u201cGo back and listen.\u201d You were given a diagnosis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014at age eleven. Share a little bit, just as a reminder.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I had already been given this diagnosis of Turret\u2019s syndrome, which is a movement disorder\u2014a tic disorder\u2014as well as anxiety\/generalized anxiety disorder\u2014which is as a quick synopsis\u2014\u201cImagine everyday worry times 20, basically, because of neurological stuff; and then, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder; and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, which is OCD and ADHD. \u201c I had <em>all of that<\/em> that I was dealing with on a daily basis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s why I wanted our listeners to know. So now, you\u2019re in college!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; the main stipulation for college was that I went where my sister went. I wasn\u2019t as far along mental health-wise as I, maybe, thought I was going to be to go out of state, which is what I wanted to do; but it\u2019s okay, because we both graduated from a school called Point University in the Southeast, and we really loved it. I loved getting to be near her, so that was a huge blessing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then my sister went off and did the very stereotypical pastor\u2019s daughter Bible college thing and got herself a <em>suitor<\/em>. She gets so mad when I say that word. [Laughter] But she started dating someone, who is now her husband of like twelve years, super-cute; whatever!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How could she do that to you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> <em>I know!!<\/em> So here I am, in this apartment. I\u2019m supposed to be watching <em>Cheetah Girls <\/em>with my sister every night, eating pizza\u2014and they\u2019re sitting on the couch\u2014she started watching like super-hero movies all of a sudden. [Laughter] She\u2019s like, you know, I guess they are like Christian dating, so I\u2019m still in the house. I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is just <em>dumb<\/em>! Be your own accountability. I need to go!\u201d I was <em>miserable<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, that\u2019s how I wrote <em>Hold Me, <\/em>because I was just like, \u201cThis is <em>stupid!\u201d <\/em>[Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s when you wrote <em>Hold Me<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> All of my songs that sound like I\u2019m in a good mood\u2014I was crying\u2014all of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> I was crying my eyes out when I wrote <em>Hold Me. <\/em>I was sitting in my room, all by myself, just like, \u201cI\u2019m going to be single forever,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cNo one\u2019s holding <em>me<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know that about that song, because it\u2019s so filled with joy; and yet, you were saying, \u201cNo.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the other thing I find interesting [about] what you just said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You do\u2014I think it\u2019s your second chapter\u2014you call it the \u201cThe Noise of Feelings.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost how you stifle and hold feelings in. When I read that, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, boy! I do the <em>same<\/em> thing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t like them. I sort of\u2014I cry at movies\u2014I don\u2019t cry in life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you just shared how you <em>express<\/em> your feelings. Talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; well, I really do have a love\/hate relationship with feelings. I do <em>love<\/em> to feel feels. You know, I love\u2014especially when it comes to music\u2014it\u2019s such a safe space for me to feel, whether I\u2019m listening to a heavily emotive song, or I\u2019m playing a very emotional song\/writing something very personal\u2014I <em>really<\/em> do enjoy that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it can oftentimes be difficult, around other humans, for me to go there, emotionally. With my family, sometimes\u2014my mom is so sweet; and she\u2019ll say, \u201cOh, you know, when I\u2019m with your daughter, it reminds me of when you\u2026\u201d\u2014and I\u2019m like, \u201cOoh! No, mom! Nachos;\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cI just can\u2019t do it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you say, \u201cnachos\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes! How about: \u201cJust change the subject\u201d? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt our wedding, I laughed through the <em>entire<\/em> ceremony\u2014not like dis-ing or anything\u2014but I just thought it was funny. I was like, \u201cThis is <em>hilarious<\/em> that I tricked this really hot guy into marrying me.\u201d [Laughter] I was just laughing the whole time. But then I cried later; I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t want all these <em>people <\/em>to see me cry!\u201d It\u2019s so weird; I\u2019ve <em>always<\/em> had a really challenging, back-and-forth relationship with feelings; but as I get older, I\u2019ve just tried to become more and more intentional with choosing to feel and choosing to be okay with feeling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Lord is not mad at me because of my feelings. The Lord is not upset with me for having feelings; you know? I think, for so long, I just wanted\u2014well, I still feel this way sometimes\u2014I just wanted everybody to be happy; I just wanted everybody to be okay, so I never wanted my feelings to interrupt that. I was just always trying to be conscious of: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m dealing with this medical diagnosis.\u201d Again, it\u2019s a journey; I still deal with really bad days of Tourrete\u2019s stuff or anxiety stuff. So I\u2019m just\/even when I\u2019m having those days, I\u2019m constantly thinking, \u201cIs my husband okay?\u201d If I feel too much, then I can\u2019t be conscious if he\u2019s okay. If I <em>feel<\/em> too much, then I\u2019m not looking out for my daughter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen reality is\u2014the Lord has given me a spouse, and that\u2019s a part of marriage\u2014me being able to be open about how I\u2019m feeling and the challenges that I\u2019m facing, and vice versa. And the reality of parenthood and motherhood is that she needs to see me cry. She needs to know that: \u201cMommy gets sad sometimes. Mommy\u2019s working through it, and it\u2019s going to get better\u201d; you know? My own relationship with feelings kind of gets in the way of that sometimes, and kind of just causes me to shut down a little bit and only practice feelings when songs are on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s pretty big. Dave, I\u2019m looking at you, like you can relate to that; because you have run from your feelings, in the past, a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I didn\u2019t know it for decades, but it was a defense mechanism to protect myself. I can remember, you know, being the father and the pastor\u2014doing my sons\u2019 weddings\u2014I can remember standing in the chapel, looking at my son and his new bride, and feeling like, \u201cI can\u2019t <em>feel<\/em>! I should <em>feel<\/em> this moment.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And part of me is like, \u201cWell, I have a job to do; I have to officiate the wedding\u201d; but I think I was <em>afraid. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I know this\u2014from Ann in our marriage\u2014she <em>wants<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes! I want you to feel and emote that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because I think, in some ways, you\u2019re not fully present when we guard your feelings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was reading your book\u2014even about finding quiet and finding peace\u2014sometimes, we\u2019re <em>afraid<\/em> to step into those feelings; and we never get to the other side, which is peace, if we\u2019re willing to go there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It may be scary; it may be uncomfortable, but it\u2019s like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, for me, I feel like, \u201cMan, I want to make the last 30 years of my life <em>feeling <\/em>years\u201d; you know, in the sense that I want to cry at life, not just in a movie theater. Part of that is like I\u2019ve got to be willing to go into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things you say in your book is: \u201cI started to realize that it wasn\u2019t my purpose to bring people joy.\u201d A lot of us, I think\u2014especially as a mom\u2014I could feel that. I <em>do<\/em> feel that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014for my kids; for my friends\u2014I want to bring them joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou say: \u201cInstead, it was my purpose to live a life full of joy in hopes of directing people to see the Source.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes; every few months, I go through this\u2014I mean, this is a little bit of my personality; this is a little bit of my anxiety as a human; this is a little bit of my anxiety disorder\u2014but every few months, I go through an \u201cI need to fix the world\u201d phase. I\u2019ve gotten to the point now that I can talk myself out of it within a day now, so that\u2019s a <em>huge<\/em> step! Because the first time I tried to fix the world, I was about seven. It took me <em>months<\/em> to realize, \u201cI\u2019m doing too much.\u201d I have to remind myself that I\u2019m not called to be all things to all people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> You know, I think a lot of times\u2014and this is not to be received as a big, theological unraveling or anything\u2014but I think, a lot of times, as believers, we get caught up in words like \u201cpurpose\u201d and \u201ccalling.\u201d Especially young adults who listen to my podcast; they ask: \u201cWhat am I supposed to do?\u201d \u201cWhat college am I supposed to go to? I don\u2019t want to make the wrong choice!\u201d \u201cWhat career? I don\u2019t want to do the wrong job,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t want to marry the wrong person! How do you know the <em>one<\/em>?\u201d You know, this kind of grand scale of: \u201cWhat is my purpose?\u201d and \u201cWhat is my calling?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, the Lord is like, \u201cI want you to wake up tomorrow and extend grace to everyone you see. That\u2019s your purpose for today\u201d; you know? Just choosing to be more present has allowed me to do that. Even\u2014you know, what you were saying a minute ago about your son\u2019s wedding: \u201cI\u2019m just trying to do the job and, you know, not feel the feels. I\u2019m just trying to complete the task at hand\u201d; you know?\u2014I dealt with a lot of that, getting famous at 17, you know, with my music. My job was to make everybody happy. If I stopped making people happy: \u201cI\u2019m not relevant anymore; I\u2019m not famous anymore,\u201d\u2014and then, I\u2019m seen as a failure\u2014\u201cIf I stop playing 200\/300 shows a year, will people see [me] as not successful?\u201d; you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was one of the main things in my life that really took a hit on my mental health and really took a hit on my feelings. I was so much better at feelings before I was famous. [Laughter] I had such a healthier relationship with feelings before I realized that feelings could easily become a currency; and that it was just my job to keep all the feelings as high and happy as possible, at whatever expense to myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what happens\u2014whether you\u2019re a mom, or an artist, or a dad at a wedding\/a pastor at a wedding\u2014when you\u2019re so caught up with: \u201cLet me just monitor everybody else\u2019s feelings, and create and serve joy on a platter,\u201d as though it\u2019s mine to give; you know? When we\u2019re constantly doing that, then we\u2019re completely neglecting ourselves. We\u2019ve completely avoided every aspect of who God calls us to be and what that purpose looks like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, that\u2019s really where the book started for me: realizing that, by trying to make everybody so happy\u2014by literally, being one of two of the main musical resources for most Christian families in America for like four years, who had young girls\u2014by just stepping into that role of being \u201cit,\u201d I was completely neglecting who God made <em>me<\/em> to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> I was completely neglecting any kind of feeling of just doing the job. There was no connection to my own feelings and my own needs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinding quiet became a literal thing: I walked away from all of it, and I just sat in a quiet house and healed for a long time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that that\u2019s important\u2014what you just said\u2014\u201cI just sat in the house and healed.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think men are like this; but women, maybe, it\u2019s a different way\u2014we\u2019re fixing; we\u2019re helping; we\u2019re taking care of so many people\u2014that, a lot of times, it feels selfish to focus on our own mental health.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I talk to a lot of moms and women, who are <em>really<\/em> struggling with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So Jamie, I think it\u2019s really wise\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to say, \u201cIt\u2019s not selfish; you need to plug into Jesus.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think you\u2019re saying that therapy has really helped, and that can be a great thing. Also, to have some other people\u2014your best friend\u2019s your sister, your mom\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014so you have some other women around you, speaking life and really walking you through some of those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Those things are good; but to go to Jesus too. He says, \u201cCome to Me, all you who are weary\u2026\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jamie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014I think that\u2019s the first place to go, and He\u2019ll give us wisdom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Mental health is such a tricky thing sometimes; because we say we want to get better, but a lot of times, the way that we act kind of communicates that we <em>don\u2019t <\/em>want to get better. One of the ways that Jamie Grace has talked with Dave and Ann Wilson today to help us improve in our mental health journey is to lean on other people and discover that, as we invite others <em>into<\/em> our lives, Jesus can work in and through the people, who are around us, to help us on our journey. It\u2019s really just a matter of humbling ourselves and saying, \u201cYes, I need community.\u201d Jamie Grace has written a book called, <em>Finding Quiet: My Journey to Peace in an Anxious World. <\/em>Oh, my goodness, do we live in an anxious world right now. Again, you can find her book at FamilyLifeToday.com and request your copy there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinding quiet is something that we search for all the time in this anxious world. Easter is a time where we can find quiet in unique new ways, because we\u2019re focusing on the quiet Jesus has provided for us in our souls and in our spirits by the fact that He died for our sins and was resurrected, which we\u2019re going to celebrate at Easter very soon. This Lenten season, which are the weeks leading up to Easter, are a time that we need to find peace; we need to find quiet; we need to refocus our hearts on the truth of Who Jesus is and what He\u2019s done for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll this week at FamilyLifeToday.com, if you make a donation of any amount, we will help you focus in a very specific way by sending you a copy of <em>Rich Wounds: The Countless Treasures of the Life, Death, and Triumph of Jesus. <\/em>This is a 30-day devotional that helps you, in this Lenten season, focus appropriately on what\u2019s coming: the celebration of Jesus\u2019s resurrection. We think this is an important book that can act as a devotional for you to help get your heart ready for this Easter season. With a donation of any amount at FamilyLifeToday.com, we would love to send you a copy of <em>Rich Wounds<\/em>, to help you take a deeper look at Jesus\u2019s life and sacrificial death. Again, you can make your donation at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call and order at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf this conversation with Dave and Ann Wilson and Jamie Grace has been encouraging to you, or any of the programs have been helpful for you, we\u2019d love for you to share today\u2019s podcast with a friend or a family member. While you\u2019re there, it could really advance the gospel work of <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>if you\u2019d scroll down and rate and review us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to be talking with David Mathis, the author of <em>Rich Wounds, <\/em>as he helps focus our hearts toward the profound reflections that help us meditate on and marvel at the sacrificial love of Jesus. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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