{"id":307418,"date":"2022-02-24T08:02:13","date_gmt":"2022-02-24T13:02:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-to-slow-down\/"},"modified":"2022-02-24T08:02:13","modified_gmt":"2022-02-24T13:02:13","slug":"how-to-slow-down","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-slow-down\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Slow Down"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Wondering if there&#8217;s more to life than the daily grind of expectations and demand? Podcaster Ashley Hales shares how to slow down and escape the hustle.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Wondering if there&#8217;s more to life than the daily grind of expectations and demand? Podcaster Ashley Hales shares how to slow down and escape the hustle.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-24.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:54","filesize":"25.55M","filesize_raw":"26786866","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873,2843],"tags":[7042,2432],"podcast_series":[8507],"cwp_profile":[9758],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307418","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-workaholism","tag-everyday-life","tag-the-good-life","podcast_series-a-spacious-life","cwp_profile-ashley-hales","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307418\/how-to-slow-down","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307418\/how-to-slow-down","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"IL56ediKvz\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-slow-down\/\">How to Slow Down<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-slow-down\/embed\/#?secret=IL56ediKvz\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How to Slow Down&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"IL56ediKvz\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-24.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-24.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How long was it after we got married that you realized I\u2019m not the amazing guy you thought I was? [Laughter] Please don\u2019t say like an hour!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Uh, actually, do you want to\/are you really asking me this?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m asking you this. I mean, I <em>know<\/em> it\u2014and our listeners know it\u2014at the six month mark, you said, \u201cMarrying you was the biggest mistake of my life.\u201d [Laughter] So I know it happened at month six, but did it happen before then?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, I just have to\u2014this is what happened.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m sensing that it <em>did<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like honeymoon?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\nProbably a month in, we are driving to staff training for Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We\u2019re driving cross country in our car. It\u2019s this old Saab; it had broken down <em>three<\/em> times.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We call it the \u201cSaab story.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The first two times, we\u2019re like, \u201cOh, Jesus, You\u2019ll take care of us; we trust You.\u201d Then we had spent the night somewhere in <em>nowhere<\/em> Nebraska.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And they supposedly fixed our car.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The next day, it breaks down <em>again<\/em>. I\u2019m like\/I turn to Dave\u2014we had just been married, maybe, three weeks\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cHey,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I did not think you were going to tell this story.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes\u2014like, \u201cshould we pray about it?\u201d\n\nHe goes, \u201cPray! You think there is a god that hears us! He doesn\u2019t hear us! He doesn\u2019t know what is going on!\u201d He gets out of the car. He takes his pants off on the highway\u2014because we took a shortcut, we are in nowhere\/anywhere Nebraska\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re in a desert.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and he takes his shorts off. He is in his underwear, walking down\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, no, no; I put on shorts. I took off my jeans and put on shorts. You\u2019re acting like I\u2019m walking down the\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He is walking down the highway, <em>yelling<\/em>\/yelling at God.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So that was the moment?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am sitting in the car\u2014I\u2019m 19 years old\u2014and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cIs this really the man I married?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The reason I bring it up\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think I was going to go there?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No! <em>Obviously<\/em>, I did not think you were going to go there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Every married couple has a story like that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what? Someday, we\u2019re going to tell the end of that story; because it ends pretty good. But yes, I was thinking every\u2014not just married couple\u2014every person, I think,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014in life.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014has an expectation about what life will be: what their marriage will be; their job\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you can put anything you want in that blank\u2014and usually, if not always, it <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> match up.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to the expectation.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then you are like, \u201cWhat do I do now?\u201d <em>That\u2019s<\/em> universal.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got the woman in the studio today to help us with this <em>universal<\/em> problem. [Laughter] She has written a book about\u2014in fact, who cares about the book?\u2014you\u2019ve <em>lived<\/em> this out in your life. I would just say, \u201cWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Ashley Hales. Thank you for being here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Thank you. It\u2019s such a pleasure, and I do want to hear the end of that story. [Laughter] It sounds amazing.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re over there, laughing at the <em>whole<\/em> thing. I mean, is that similar to a story or two in your life?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Well, we had a story\u2014my husband and I went to Aruba\u2014with like our\/for our honeymoon. We had this cool jeep, and then the seatbelt didn\u2019t work appropriately.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> The next day, he\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m going\u2014I\u2019m the husband\u2014I\u2019m going to take care of this,\u201d\u2014like go do business in there and try to get an upgrade. Then, he came back; and he was feeling really proud of himself. I was like, \u201cWhy do you have to be such a <em>jerk<\/em>?!\u201d [Laughter] So that started off our honeymoon; so there you are.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He went in like the <em>tough<\/em> guy, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to get this to happen.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m like\u2014right; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here is the thing that a lot of people don\u2019t know about you\u2014how long ago was that?\u2014how long have you been married?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> We have almost been married 20 years.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> 20 years, 4 kids later\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, and here we are!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got one of your\/your oldest, Ezra, is on this trip with you to Orlando.\n\n<strong>Ashley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have your doctorate.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I do.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Maybe, we should call you Dr. Ashley.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In what?\u2014PhD\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> \u2014in English Literature.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, I thought I was going to be a professor and do that whole thing and, then, had lots of babies and lots of moves with my husband\u2019s ministry position.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He\u2019s a pastor.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; he is a pastor in Colorado. Yes, God tends to give us different things than <em>we<\/em> planned. Wendell Berry says, \u201cWe live the <em>given<\/em> life and not the planned life.\u201d I\u2019ve held onto that because it gives me some hope in the midst of, when we have all these expectations, and they are dashed often.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, let\u2019s talk about that.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve written a book called <em>A Spacious Life: Trading Hustle and Hurry for the Goodness of Limits<\/em>. You <em>start<\/em> the book with sort of your story of what you hoped and expected and what you got, and how you deal with that. Tell us that story, because it has something to do with limits. As I read it, I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve all experienced this in a different way.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s <em>hard<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I totally related to it. I\u2019m starting the book, like: \u201cYes,\u201d \u201cYes,\u201d and \u201cYes!\u201d [Laughter] So share; take us back to Scotland.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; so a year after my husband and I were married\u2014after we\u2019d gotten through the seatbelt incident\u2014well, we went off to grad school in Edinburgh, Scotland. He did seminary there, and I started a PhD program in English Literature. We kind of felt like: \u201cWe are amazing Americans. We are like cool enough to live outside of America, and we\u2019re obviously smart enough to get into these programs. We can travel around very cheaply, and we have friends from all over the world.\u201d Even though we were eating like ramen, we just kind of felt like, \u201cOkay, life is about to start.\u201d\n\nThen we move back home, and we found ourselves pregnant with Ezra\u2014which was a <em>delight<\/em>\u2014but also not <em>exactly<\/em> my plan. We tried to figure out: \u201cOkay, how are we going to live this kind of adventuresome, gospel-oriented life with\u2026\u201d\u2014we end up having four children in pretty quick succession. I just was hit again and again with my limits: the limits of my body, the limits of my time.\n\nI know so many different things God uses\u2014not necessarily parenting\u2014but it could be marriage; it could be a place you live; or a career\u2014so many things bring us to the end of ourselves. The question is: \u201cWhat are we going to do with that? Is that a doorway into a more spacious life, or are we going to blame God?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was right there with you. Dave and I were married six years before we had kids. We were doing ministry together; we\u2019re thinking, \u201cWe are going to <em>change<\/em> the world together.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Totally.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWe are going to impact this world for Jesus.\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cHaving babies\u2014we\u2019ll just do it [impact the world] with our babies.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right; \u201cWe\u2019ll like just pull them along.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Dave kept doing it, and I was left at <em>home<\/em>. Here, I am, raising these kids\u2014like it\u2019s an <em>amazing<\/em> gift from God\u2014yet, I kept looking outside,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014thinking, \u201cI wish it could have looked like I thought it was going to look.\u201d I didn\u2019t just become a mom really naturally; it was <em>hard<\/em> for me.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think a lot of people, as you said, maybe, it\u2019s their job\u2014it\u2019s not what they thought\u2014their career path; maybe, it\u2019s friends; maybe, women thought, \u201cI thought I would be <em>married<\/em> by now.\u201d There are so many things that are disappointing; and when you say, \u201ca <em>spacious<\/em> life,\u201d what does that mean?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> You know, I love\u2014one of the psalmists in Psalm 18 talks about\u2014\u201cHe has brought me out into a spacious place. He rescued me because He delighted in me.\u201d I just\u2014I <em>love<\/em> that verse\u2014because really what it\/it communicates that there is this sense of spaciousness that is born from God\u2019s rescue, and it\u2019s not something that we create.\n\nOften, you know when we think about a spacious place or a spacious life, we can tend to think: \u201cOh, well, that will happen if I ever get to go to Fiji and stay in one of those huts above the turquoise water; <em>that\u2019s<\/em> a spacious life,\u201d or \u201c\u2026when I get this promotion,\u201d or \u201c\u2026when my kids leave the house,\u201d or \u201c\u2026when my marriage is really thriving and flourishing.\u201d\n\nBut what I think is so <em>beautiful<\/em> about the gospel is that it is actually in our limits\u2014as we press into who Jesus is and we are connected to God\u2014that we can experience that spaciousness.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The question would be: \u201cHow?\u201d\u2014because when limits come in\u2014and I don\u2019t know if this is universal or not, but I think it is\u2014no person I know wants limits. We sort of\/we <em>rebel<\/em> against them, like: \u201cGive me space,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cGive me freedom to accomplish everything God has called me to do,\u201d\u2014and yet, life limits; pain limits\u2014we\u2019ve talked about kids; you name it\u2014which are a gift from God\u2014but you feel like: \u201cI\u2019m sort of pressed in.\u201d It <em>isn\u2019t<\/em> <em>spacious<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how do you find a spacious life in the middle of a <em>limiting<\/em> life?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; I think there are lots of different ways that we tend to deal with our limits. We can kind of try to control them; or we can ignore them and escape from them; we can try to hustle past them; we can fall into shame, often, if we hit a limit, like something is deeply wrong with us; or we blame other people in our circumstances. Those are all really unhealthy ways of dealing with our limits that really started in the Garden of Eden.\n\nBut what is so beautiful is that our limits are actually <em>built<\/em> <em>into<\/em> creation. Before sin entered the world, there were limits; right?\u2014like planets have orbits\/they couldn\u2019t just go wherever they wanted; and the ground had cycles of fallow and flourishing. These were natural, good God-given limits for creation.\n\nI think part of how we learn to live with our limits well is to realize they are good; they are part of God\u2019s <em>good<\/em> creation. He said it was good.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is a <em>great<\/em> point; because a lot of people would say, \u201cGod\u2019s limitations are because He is not a good God,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014like, \u201cWhat kind of God would give us limits?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> But really, it\u2019s so fascinating\u2014the word, \u201ctransgression,\u201d that sometimes we use for sin\u2014actually means to go beyond, to move past something, to bypass limits. One of the first sins\u2014really, Adam and Eve\u2014they are bypassing\/they are transgressing their limits; because instead of choosing to <em>submit<\/em> to God\u2019s authority, they are taking it into their own hands. We do that <em>all<\/em> the time every day.\n\nI think we first have to realize that our God-given limits are good. They are intended for us to flourish. I think we have to remember that limits are good; and that, also, Jesus being both God and man, dealt with limits. As we look at the life of Christ, we can look at the way that He embraced His limits as a pattern for our own lives too.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean by that? What kind of limits did Jesus have?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Well, He was human; so He is leaving heavenly glory, and He is born into flesh. He is a man with a body, living in a place, and among particular people, and in a particular historical moment in time. When He is tempted by Satan\u2014He goes into the wilderness\u2014Satan is like, \u201cFeed Yourself; turn these stones into bread.\u201d He is like, \u201cNo, I\u2019m actually going to choose to <em>wait<\/em> on God,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014\u201cbecause that is who I trust, not Myself, to like hurry and hustle past.\u201d\n\nI think there are so many lessons in the life of Christ that just remind us that, if we actually live God\u2019s way, we will live much more free, much more joyful, and having so much more purpose, even when those limits pinch a little too.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Why is it that we\u2014and maybe, I\u2019m just talking for me, but I think I\u2019m talking for <em>most<\/em> of us\u2014we resist limits? What is it in our DNA\/in our soul that says, \u201cNo, limits are not good\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I think, since Adam and Eve, we have been <em>rebelling<\/em> against God\u2019s good limits. We want the power and control; we want to orchestrate our own lives; we want to be the sovereign masters and monarchs of our own lives. But we know that that always leads to exhaustion; it leads to destruction.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014addiction.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> \u2014addiction; I mean, a <em>million<\/em> different things.\n\nEven if we have a \u201cgood life\u201d\u2014where we\u2019re happily married and things seem to be successful\u2014it\u2019s like we\u2019re on this moving walkway at the airport that just keeps going; right? You can never get to the thing that you think will satisfy you; you know, the goal posts always continually move back. Until we really find ourselves in God\u2019s story, with God\u2019s good guard rails kind of hemming us in, we won\u2019t begin to really experience that kind of joy and peace.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I thought it was interesting that you say, \u201cI wish someone had told me to begin to pay careful attention to my limits, that there was a spacious life in <em>there<\/em> too.\u201d Take us back to\u2014you\u2019re a mom; you have four kids; you have your doctorate\u2014but you were feeling <em>so limited<\/em>. What happened to make you realize, \u201cOh, wait! Maybe, this isn\u2019t a limited life\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I think, like you were saying earlier, I had so much attachment to what our\n\n21<sup>st<\/sup> century American life says is a good life; right?\u2014that you are productive; that you are contributing to society in really visible and measurable ways, like you\u2019re earning money. Here I was\u2014not earning money\u2014I was staying home with our four kiddos, not doing the things that I thought I was supposed to be doing.\n\nBut in those years, particularly, God was inviting me into communion with Himself. All of those times, where I would be praying with a girlfriend\u2014tearful prayers about: \u201cWhat are we doing? Are we messed up on parenting?\u201d or we can\u2019t seem to get our house clean\u2014those were formative years to remind me that Jesus is enough, and His church is enough; and I will <em>never<\/em> really solve my identity problems by being productive, or more efficient, or having certain letters after my name. That, really, all of our limits are an invitation to know God and to make Him known; that\u2019s the point.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One point, early in your book, I was reading this paragraph; and I thought, \u201c<em>So many<\/em> people relate to this <em>feeling<\/em>.\u201d You said\/the questions you were asking: \u201cWhere had the good life gone? Where had <em>I<\/em> gone? Sometimes, I railed at God about why the options had dried up; but more often, I just ignored Him. I\u2019d go to church but not read my Bible. My perfunctory prayers were more out of duty than interest in God\u2019s response. I felt constrained, boxed into a new role.\u201d\n\n<em>Man<\/em>, I\u2019m reading that; I\u2019m like, \u201cThat sounds like a majority of us\u2014or a majority of people in the church\u2014it just feels like I\u2019m either mad at God or, maybe, I\u2019ve even gotten beyond it; I\u2019m just numb. I\u2019m <em>ignoring<\/em> Him, because I feel like this is all His fault.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I think, particularly, being that we don\u2019t tend to value things like caregiving\u2014whether it\u2019s for young moms; or caring for elderly parents; or even teaching; or other professions, where other people are offering care to the same extent\u2014as you know, maybe, the executive in the corner office, who is jet-setting around the world, to the extent that we are not valuing that type of work\u2014those people, especially, can feel invisible in society.\n\nMaybe, it\u2019s just our busy lifestyles; but we haven\u2019t done a great job, as the church, to like provide that sort of safety net and kind of thick community that would allow people to feel <em>seen<\/em>. I think, maybe, that\u2019s the call of the church\u2014is to be that thicker, tighter woven net to begin to value those things that our culture might not value\u2014I think that would be beautiful movement forward.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would add that I think\u2014when we were where you were\u2014and I\u2019m not saying we won\u2019t be there in the future;\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because there are days, and there could be months or seasons in our life where it just feels like we\u2019re being limited again; or we\u2019re in a valley, and He\u2019s not there\u2014yet, I think, even in your experience, and I know in our experience\u2014He often shows up in people\/\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in a person to remind us: \u201cOh, I\u2019m here. And these limits: I actually know all about them. There is a spacious life actually in them. It may not turn out how you think, but I\u2019m here.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s really interesting. If you go back to a highway in Colorado,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014where I\u2019m ripping off my [jeans] and screaming at God. Literally, I start walking down this desert road. There is nobody coming, because we\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There are snakes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014we actually thought, \u201cThe car\u2019s fixed, so we\u2019ll just take a shortcut.\u201d We get off the main drag, which was the <em>worst<\/em> decision in the world, and it breaks down again. I look back, and Ann is literally sitting in the car, looking at her newlywed husband, who is screaming at God as I walk away. Nobody is going to hear me anyway.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Long story short\u2014and it\u2019s a long story\u2014is I start to calm down. Again, I\u2019m out there by myself; and then I pray. I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, God;\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI know You\u2019re here. I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on. We\u2019re supposed to be [there] at a certain time, or we have to pay a late fee.\u201d I\u2019m Mr. Tight Wad; so I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to trust You. Somehow, you\u2019re going to show up.\u201d\n\nAnn gets out of the car.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It looked like we were <em>very<\/em> limited. That\u2019s what it looked like; there were <em>no<\/em> options.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There were <em>no<\/em> hopes of\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley: <\/strong>Right. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014and there is nobody driving down this road; so it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; so we have to just start walking.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> A car comes by about\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We are hitchhiking on the highway.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We stick our thumb out\u201430 minutes between every car\u2014and all of a sudden, this one car comes by.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we <em>prayed<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We probably walked several miles; it\u2019s a hundred degrees. This guy pulls over and gets out, and goes, \u201cHey, is that your Saab back there?\u201d\u2014like he passed it\u2014\u201cYes.\u201d He goes, \u201cWhat\u2019s up?\u201d We go, \u201cWe don\u2019t know. The car is broken; it won\u2019t start.\u201d \u201cWhere are you going?\u201d We are like, \u201cWe are going to Fort Collins, Colorado.\u201d It\u2019s two\/three hours away.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>He goes, \u201cAh! That\u2019s where I\u2019m going!\u201d \u201cReally?!\u201d He goes, \u201cWhere are you going in Fort Collins?\u201d We have to go to the Student Union at Colorado State University. \u201cHuh?! That\u2019s where I\u2019m going!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYou\u2019re on staff with Cru\u201d; because that\u2019s where staff training is going to be. He goes, \u201cNo, I\u2019m a professor at Colorado State University. I need to stop there to get another car.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He goes, \u201cHey, I\u2019ve got a tow rope. How about I just tow you to the Student Union at Colorado State University?\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cAre you serious?!\u201d Long story short, he towed us there. The best thing about it was it was no gas money; it was free. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> See, God\u2019s even got that part. I love it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then he tows us into this parking spot, and we show up five minutes before the deadline ends. You look back on that moment\u2014again, I\u2019m not saying every Saab story in your life, every limit, every valley you\u2019re in, God does it like this\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I would say, Dave, too\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014but He did that day. It was just a reminder: \u201cGod was there. He\u2019s got us.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was a <em>great<\/em> reminder to me; because I was looking at my husband, thinking, \u201cIs this who I married?\u201d Yet, that is where we go a lot of times when we feel like we are limited: \u201cI\u2019m limited by this spouse that I married,\u201d or \u201c\u2026this job that I have\u201d; but when you change your gaze,\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014go vertical.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and you look to God; you go vertical\u2014all of a sudden, you see everything in a different light. It\u2019s the spacious life\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014where God is saying, \u201cI am your Provider. I am your Redeemer. I am your Comforter. I am the One who offers grace\u201d; it\u2019s the gospel.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m going to show you who I am,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cright here, right now.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I see God that way\u2014then I look at Dave in a different way, and I look at my circumstances in a different way\u2014because He is a God who redeems us if we will only look to Him <em>for<\/em> that spacious life.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is so important for us to look at the events of our life from God\u2019s perspective rather than from our perspective to\u2014as much as we are able\u2014see God\u2019s hand in what it is we are going through. One of the things we talk about, regularly, at the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway is that our spouse is God\u2019s perfect gift to us. We don\u2019t always see it that way in marriage. We can think that our spouse is our enemy; but in fact, God has given us a gift in our husband or our wife. We need to <em>embrace<\/em> that gift and see God\u2019s goodness in that gift.\n\nThis is a subject that Ashley Hales has dived into with her book, <em>A Spacious Life<\/em>. The subtitle is <em>Trading Hustle and Hurry for the Goodness of Limits<\/em>. It\u2019s a book that we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book is <em>A Spacious Life<\/em> by Ashley Hales. Order your copy from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, I want to get you ready for a change that is coming next week. To do that, I want to introduce a friend to you, who is with us, Shelby Abbott. Hello, Shelby.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Hey, Bob, how are you?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Shelby has been a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with us in the past. He is an author\/a speaker. He has been on staff with Cru, formerly Campus Crusade for Christ<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, for\u2014how many years?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Twenty-two-and-a-half; that\u2019s a long time.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are doing a podcast. What\u2019s the title of the podcast?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> It\u2019s called <em>A Real Life Loading<\/em>, and that is with FamilyLife.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In the weeks ahead, you are going to be the one who is taking over the responsibility of wrapping up this daily program\/this podcast, and talking with listeners about what we\u2019ve just heard and providing whatever show notes we need to provide for the program.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. You are passing the baton into my metaphorically sweaty palm. [Laughter]\u00a0 Hopefully, I will not blow it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I hope listeners will get a chance to get to know you. In fact, you and I took a few minutes recently and just visited and got a little bit of the background and the details\u2014your history\u2014so if listeners are interested in that, there is a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com where they can hear our conversation. When they hear you next week, and don\u2019t hear me, that\u2019s <em>normal<\/em>; that\u2019s the new normal; right?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Yes; what will <em>you<\/em> be doing from here on out now that you are leaving <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Many of our listeners know that, in addition to the work I\u2019ve done on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, I have been a bi-vocational pastor for more than a decade now. I will be spending more time in the ministry of our local church, where I am the one who does the preaching regularly\u2014still writing, still speaking\u2014but I\u2019m happy to hand this off to you and look forward to you taking things forward. So glad to have you here.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Thank you so much my friend. I really appreciate it, deeply.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Tomorrow, we hope you can be back with us. Ashley Hales is going to be here again\u2014but wait\u2014you\u2019re going to be doing this; do you want to take it from here?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m happy to try\u2014sure; why not?\u2014I mean, it\u2019s going to be my job.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Tell everybody what\u2019s coming up tomorrow.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Now, tomorrow, Ashley Hales will be with us again and talking about the expectations we have in life never really matching up with reality. How do we meet God in the mundane?\u2014because He is there and present just as much as in the exciting moments.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a CruMinistry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\nHow was that? What\u2019d you think?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was outstanding; I can leave <em>now<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Wow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776362607;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Wondering if there's more to life than the daily grind of expectations and demand? Podcaster Ashley Hales shares how to slow down and escape the hustle.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How long was it after we got married that you realized I\u2019m not the amazing guy you thought I was? [Laughter] Please don\u2019t say like an hour!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Uh, actually, do you want to\/are you really asking me this?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m asking you this. I mean, I <em>know<\/em> it\u2014and our listeners know it\u2014at the six month mark, you said, \u201cMarrying you was the biggest mistake of my life.\u201d [Laughter] So I know it happened at month six, but did it happen before then?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, I just have to\u2014this is what happened.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m sensing that it <em>did<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like honeymoon?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\nProbably a month in, we are driving to staff training for Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We\u2019re driving cross country in our car. It\u2019s this old Saab; it had broken down <em>three<\/em> times.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We call it the \u201cSaab story.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The first two times, we\u2019re like, \u201cOh, Jesus, You\u2019ll take care of us; we trust You.\u201d Then we had spent the night somewhere in <em>nowhere<\/em> Nebraska.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And they supposedly fixed our car.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The next day, it breaks down <em>again<\/em>. I\u2019m like\/I turn to Dave\u2014we had just been married, maybe, three weeks\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cHey,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I did not think you were going to tell this story.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes\u2014like, \u201cshould we pray about it?\u201d\n\nHe goes, \u201cPray! You think there is a god that hears us! He doesn\u2019t hear us! He doesn\u2019t know what is going on!\u201d He gets out of the car. He takes his pants off on the highway\u2014because we took a shortcut, we are in nowhere\/anywhere Nebraska\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re in a desert.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and he takes his shorts off. He is in his underwear, walking down\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, no, no; I put on shorts. I took off my jeans and put on shorts. You\u2019re acting like I\u2019m walking down the\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He is walking down the highway, <em>yelling<\/em>\/yelling at God.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So that was the moment?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am sitting in the car\u2014I\u2019m 19 years old\u2014and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cIs this really the man I married?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The reason I bring it up\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think I was going to go there?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No! <em>Obviously<\/em>, I did not think you were going to go there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Every married couple has a story like that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what? Someday, we\u2019re going to tell the end of that story; because it ends pretty good. But yes, I was thinking every\u2014not just married couple\u2014every person, I think,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014in life.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014has an expectation about what life will be: what their marriage will be; their job\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you can put anything you want in that blank\u2014and usually, if not always, it <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> match up.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to the expectation.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then you are like, \u201cWhat do I do now?\u201d <em>That\u2019s<\/em> universal.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got the woman in the studio today to help us with this <em>universal<\/em> problem. [Laughter] She has written a book about\u2014in fact, who cares about the book?\u2014you\u2019ve <em>lived<\/em> this out in your life. I would just say, \u201cWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Ashley Hales. Thank you for being here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Thank you. It\u2019s such a pleasure, and I do want to hear the end of that story. [Laughter] It sounds amazing.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re over there, laughing at the <em>whole<\/em> thing. I mean, is that similar to a story or two in your life?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Well, we had a story\u2014my husband and I went to Aruba\u2014with like our\/for our honeymoon. We had this cool jeep, and then the seatbelt didn\u2019t work appropriately.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> The next day, he\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m going\u2014I\u2019m the husband\u2014I\u2019m going to take care of this,\u201d\u2014like go do business in there and try to get an upgrade. Then, he came back; and he was feeling really proud of himself. I was like, \u201cWhy do you have to be such a <em>jerk<\/em>?!\u201d [Laughter] So that started off our honeymoon; so there you are.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He went in like the <em>tough<\/em> guy, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to get this to happen.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m like\u2014right; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here is the thing that a lot of people don\u2019t know about you\u2014how long ago was that?\u2014how long have you been married?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> We have almost been married 20 years.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> 20 years, 4 kids later\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, and here we are!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got one of your\/your oldest, Ezra, is on this trip with you to Orlando.\n\n<strong>Ashley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have your doctorate.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I do.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Maybe, we should call you Dr. Ashley.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In what?\u2014PhD\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> \u2014in English Literature.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, I thought I was going to be a professor and do that whole thing and, then, had lots of babies and lots of moves with my husband\u2019s ministry position.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He\u2019s a pastor.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; he is a pastor in Colorado. Yes, God tends to give us different things than <em>we<\/em> planned. Wendell Berry says, \u201cWe live the <em>given<\/em> life and not the planned life.\u201d I\u2019ve held onto that because it gives me some hope in the midst of, when we have all these expectations, and they are dashed often.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, let\u2019s talk about that.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve written a book called <em>A Spacious Life: Trading Hustle and Hurry for the Goodness of Limits<\/em>. You <em>start<\/em> the book with sort of your story of what you hoped and expected and what you got, and how you deal with that. Tell us that story, because it has something to do with limits. As I read it, I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve all experienced this in a different way.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s <em>hard<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I totally related to it. I\u2019m starting the book, like: \u201cYes,\u201d \u201cYes,\u201d and \u201cYes!\u201d [Laughter] So share; take us back to Scotland.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; so a year after my husband and I were married\u2014after we\u2019d gotten through the seatbelt incident\u2014well, we went off to grad school in Edinburgh, Scotland. He did seminary there, and I started a PhD program in English Literature. We kind of felt like: \u201cWe are amazing Americans. We are like cool enough to live outside of America, and we\u2019re obviously smart enough to get into these programs. We can travel around very cheaply, and we have friends from all over the world.\u201d Even though we were eating like ramen, we just kind of felt like, \u201cOkay, life is about to start.\u201d\n\nThen we move back home, and we found ourselves pregnant with Ezra\u2014which was a <em>delight<\/em>\u2014but also not <em>exactly<\/em> my plan. We tried to figure out: \u201cOkay, how are we going to live this kind of adventuresome, gospel-oriented life with\u2026\u201d\u2014we end up having four children in pretty quick succession. I just was hit again and again with my limits: the limits of my body, the limits of my time.\n\nI know so many different things God uses\u2014not necessarily parenting\u2014but it could be marriage; it could be a place you live; or a career\u2014so many things bring us to the end of ourselves. The question is: \u201cWhat are we going to do with that? Is that a doorway into a more spacious life, or are we going to blame God?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was right there with you. Dave and I were married six years before we had kids. We were doing ministry together; we\u2019re thinking, \u201cWe are going to <em>change<\/em> the world together.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Totally.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWe are going to impact this world for Jesus.\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cHaving babies\u2014we\u2019ll just do it [impact the world] with our babies.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right; \u201cWe\u2019ll like just pull them along.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Dave kept doing it, and I was left at <em>home<\/em>. Here, I am, raising these kids\u2014like it\u2019s an <em>amazing<\/em> gift from God\u2014yet, I kept looking outside,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014thinking, \u201cI wish it could have looked like I thought it was going to look.\u201d I didn\u2019t just become a mom really naturally; it was <em>hard<\/em> for me.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think a lot of people, as you said, maybe, it\u2019s their job\u2014it\u2019s not what they thought\u2014their career path; maybe, it\u2019s friends; maybe, women thought, \u201cI thought I would be <em>married<\/em> by now.\u201d There are so many things that are disappointing; and when you say, \u201ca <em>spacious<\/em> life,\u201d what does that mean?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> You know, I love\u2014one of the psalmists in Psalm 18 talks about\u2014\u201cHe has brought me out into a spacious place. He rescued me because He delighted in me.\u201d I just\u2014I <em>love<\/em> that verse\u2014because really what it\/it communicates that there is this sense of spaciousness that is born from God\u2019s rescue, and it\u2019s not something that we create.\n\nOften, you know when we think about a spacious place or a spacious life, we can tend to think: \u201cOh, well, that will happen if I ever get to go to Fiji and stay in one of those huts above the turquoise water; <em>that\u2019s<\/em> a spacious life,\u201d or \u201c\u2026when I get this promotion,\u201d or \u201c\u2026when my kids leave the house,\u201d or \u201c\u2026when my marriage is really thriving and flourishing.\u201d\n\nBut what I think is so <em>beautiful<\/em> about the gospel is that it is actually in our limits\u2014as we press into who Jesus is and we are connected to God\u2014that we can experience that spaciousness.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The question would be: \u201cHow?\u201d\u2014because when limits come in\u2014and I don\u2019t know if this is universal or not, but I think it is\u2014no person I know wants limits. We sort of\/we <em>rebel<\/em> against them, like: \u201cGive me space,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cGive me freedom to accomplish everything God has called me to do,\u201d\u2014and yet, life limits; pain limits\u2014we\u2019ve talked about kids; you name it\u2014which are a gift from God\u2014but you feel like: \u201cI\u2019m sort of pressed in.\u201d It <em>isn\u2019t<\/em> <em>spacious<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how do you find a spacious life in the middle of a <em>limiting<\/em> life?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; I think there are lots of different ways that we tend to deal with our limits. We can kind of try to control them; or we can ignore them and escape from them; we can try to hustle past them; we can fall into shame, often, if we hit a limit, like something is deeply wrong with us; or we blame other people in our circumstances. Those are all really unhealthy ways of dealing with our limits that really started in the Garden of Eden.\n\nBut what is so beautiful is that our limits are actually <em>built<\/em> <em>into<\/em> creation. Before sin entered the world, there were limits; right?\u2014like planets have orbits\/they couldn\u2019t just go wherever they wanted; and the ground had cycles of fallow and flourishing. These were natural, good God-given limits for creation.\n\nI think part of how we learn to live with our limits well is to realize they are good; they are part of God\u2019s <em>good<\/em> creation. He said it was good.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is a <em>great<\/em> point; because a lot of people would say, \u201cGod\u2019s limitations are because He is not a good God,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014like, \u201cWhat kind of God would give us limits?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> But really, it\u2019s so fascinating\u2014the word, \u201ctransgression,\u201d that sometimes we use for sin\u2014actually means to go beyond, to move past something, to bypass limits. One of the first sins\u2014really, Adam and Eve\u2014they are bypassing\/they are transgressing their limits; because instead of choosing to <em>submit<\/em> to God\u2019s authority, they are taking it into their own hands. We do that <em>all<\/em> the time every day.\n\nI think we first have to realize that our God-given limits are good. They are intended for us to flourish. I think we have to remember that limits are good; and that, also, Jesus being both God and man, dealt with limits. As we look at the life of Christ, we can look at the way that He embraced His limits as a pattern for our own lives too.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean by that? What kind of limits did Jesus have?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Well, He was human; so He is leaving heavenly glory, and He is born into flesh. He is a man with a body, living in a place, and among particular people, and in a particular historical moment in time. When He is tempted by Satan\u2014He goes into the wilderness\u2014Satan is like, \u201cFeed Yourself; turn these stones into bread.\u201d He is like, \u201cNo, I\u2019m actually going to choose to <em>wait<\/em> on God,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014\u201cbecause that is who I trust, not Myself, to like hurry and hustle past.\u201d\n\nI think there are so many lessons in the life of Christ that just remind us that, if we actually live God\u2019s way, we will live much more free, much more joyful, and having so much more purpose, even when those limits pinch a little too.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Why is it that we\u2014and maybe, I\u2019m just talking for me, but I think I\u2019m talking for <em>most<\/em> of us\u2014we resist limits? What is it in our DNA\/in our soul that says, \u201cNo, limits are not good\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I think, since Adam and Eve, we have been <em>rebelling<\/em> against God\u2019s good limits. We want the power and control; we want to orchestrate our own lives; we want to be the sovereign masters and monarchs of our own lives. But we know that that always leads to exhaustion; it leads to destruction.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014addiction.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> \u2014addiction; I mean, a <em>million<\/em> different things.\n\nEven if we have a \u201cgood life\u201d\u2014where we\u2019re happily married and things seem to be successful\u2014it\u2019s like we\u2019re on this moving walkway at the airport that just keeps going; right? You can never get to the thing that you think will satisfy you; you know, the goal posts always continually move back. Until we really find ourselves in God\u2019s story, with God\u2019s good guard rails kind of hemming us in, we won\u2019t begin to really experience that kind of joy and peace.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I thought it was interesting that you say, \u201cI wish someone had told me to begin to pay careful attention to my limits, that there was a spacious life in <em>there<\/em> too.\u201d Take us back to\u2014you\u2019re a mom; you have four kids; you have your doctorate\u2014but you were feeling <em>so limited<\/em>. What happened to make you realize, \u201cOh, wait! Maybe, this isn\u2019t a limited life\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I think, like you were saying earlier, I had so much attachment to what our\n\n21<sup>st<\/sup> century American life says is a good life; right?\u2014that you are productive; that you are contributing to society in really visible and measurable ways, like you\u2019re earning money. Here I was\u2014not earning money\u2014I was staying home with our four kiddos, not doing the things that I thought I was supposed to be doing.\n\nBut in those years, particularly, God was inviting me into communion with Himself. All of those times, where I would be praying with a girlfriend\u2014tearful prayers about: \u201cWhat are we doing? Are we messed up on parenting?\u201d or we can\u2019t seem to get our house clean\u2014those were formative years to remind me that Jesus is enough, and His church is enough; and I will <em>never<\/em> really solve my identity problems by being productive, or more efficient, or having certain letters after my name. That, really, all of our limits are an invitation to know God and to make Him known; that\u2019s the point.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One point, early in your book, I was reading this paragraph; and I thought, \u201c<em>So many<\/em> people relate to this <em>feeling<\/em>.\u201d You said\/the questions you were asking: \u201cWhere had the good life gone? Where had <em>I<\/em> gone? Sometimes, I railed at God about why the options had dried up; but more often, I just ignored Him. I\u2019d go to church but not read my Bible. My perfunctory prayers were more out of duty than interest in God\u2019s response. I felt constrained, boxed into a new role.\u201d\n\n<em>Man<\/em>, I\u2019m reading that; I\u2019m like, \u201cThat sounds like a majority of us\u2014or a majority of people in the church\u2014it just feels like I\u2019m either mad at God or, maybe, I\u2019ve even gotten beyond it; I\u2019m just numb. I\u2019m <em>ignoring<\/em> Him, because I feel like this is all His fault.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I think, particularly, being that we don\u2019t tend to value things like caregiving\u2014whether it\u2019s for young moms; or caring for elderly parents; or even teaching; or other professions, where other people are offering care to the same extent\u2014as you know, maybe, the executive in the corner office, who is jet-setting around the world, to the extent that we are not valuing that type of work\u2014those people, especially, can feel invisible in society.\n\nMaybe, it\u2019s just our busy lifestyles; but we haven\u2019t done a great job, as the church, to like provide that sort of safety net and kind of thick community that would allow people to feel <em>seen<\/em>. I think, maybe, that\u2019s the call of the church\u2014is to be that thicker, tighter woven net to begin to value those things that our culture might not value\u2014I think that would be beautiful movement forward.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would add that I think\u2014when we were where you were\u2014and I\u2019m not saying we won\u2019t be there in the future;\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because there are days, and there could be months or seasons in our life where it just feels like we\u2019re being limited again; or we\u2019re in a valley, and He\u2019s not there\u2014yet, I think, even in your experience, and I know in our experience\u2014He often shows up in people\/\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in a person to remind us: \u201cOh, I\u2019m here. And these limits: I actually know all about them. There is a spacious life actually in them. It may not turn out how you think, but I\u2019m here.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s really interesting. If you go back to a highway in Colorado,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014where I\u2019m ripping off my [jeans] and screaming at God. Literally, I start walking down this desert road. There is nobody coming, because we\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There are snakes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014we actually thought, \u201cThe car\u2019s fixed, so we\u2019ll just take a shortcut.\u201d We get off the main drag, which was the <em>worst<\/em> decision in the world, and it breaks down again. I look back, and Ann is literally sitting in the car, looking at her newlywed husband, who is screaming at God as I walk away. Nobody is going to hear me anyway.\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Long story short\u2014and it\u2019s a long story\u2014is I start to calm down. Again, I\u2019m out there by myself; and then I pray. I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, God;\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI know You\u2019re here. I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on. We\u2019re supposed to be [there] at a certain time, or we have to pay a late fee.\u201d I\u2019m Mr. Tight Wad; so I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to trust You. Somehow, you\u2019re going to show up.\u201d\n\nAnn gets out of the car.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It looked like we were <em>very<\/em> limited. That\u2019s what it looked like; there were <em>no<\/em> options.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There were <em>no<\/em> hopes of\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley: <\/strong>Right. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014and there is nobody driving down this road; so it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; so we have to just start walking.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> A car comes by about\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We are hitchhiking on the highway.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We stick our thumb out\u201430 minutes between every car\u2014and all of a sudden, this one car comes by.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we <em>prayed<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We probably walked several miles; it\u2019s a hundred degrees. This guy pulls over and gets out, and goes, \u201cHey, is that your Saab back there?\u201d\u2014like he passed it\u2014\u201cYes.\u201d He goes, \u201cWhat\u2019s up?\u201d We go, \u201cWe don\u2019t know. The car is broken; it won\u2019t start.\u201d \u201cWhere are you going?\u201d We are like, \u201cWe are going to Fort Collins, Colorado.\u201d It\u2019s two\/three hours away.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>He goes, \u201cAh! That\u2019s where I\u2019m going!\u201d \u201cReally?!\u201d He goes, \u201cWhere are you going in Fort Collins?\u201d We have to go to the Student Union at Colorado State University. \u201cHuh?! That\u2019s where I\u2019m going!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYou\u2019re on staff with Cru\u201d; because that\u2019s where staff training is going to be. He goes, \u201cNo, I\u2019m a professor at Colorado State University. I need to stop there to get another car.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He goes, \u201cHey, I\u2019ve got a tow rope. How about I just tow you to the Student Union at Colorado State University?\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cAre you serious?!\u201d Long story short, he towed us there. The best thing about it was it was no gas money; it was free. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> See, God\u2019s even got that part. I love it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then he tows us into this parking spot, and we show up five minutes before the deadline ends. You look back on that moment\u2014again, I\u2019m not saying every Saab story in your life, every limit, every valley you\u2019re in, God does it like this\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I would say, Dave, too\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014but He did that day. It was just a reminder: \u201cGod was there. He\u2019s got us.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was a <em>great<\/em> reminder to me; because I was looking at my husband, thinking, \u201cIs this who I married?\u201d Yet, that is where we go a lot of times when we feel like we are limited: \u201cI\u2019m limited by this spouse that I married,\u201d or \u201c\u2026this job that I have\u201d; but when you change your gaze,\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014go vertical.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and you look to God; you go vertical\u2014all of a sudden, you see everything in a different light. It\u2019s the spacious life\u2014\n\n<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014where God is saying, \u201cI am your Provider. I am your Redeemer. I am your Comforter. I am the One who offers grace\u201d; it\u2019s the gospel.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m going to show you who I am,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cright here, right now.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I see God that way\u2014then I look at Dave in a different way, and I look at my circumstances in a different way\u2014because He is a God who redeems us if we will only look to Him <em>for<\/em> that spacious life.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is so important for us to look at the events of our life from God\u2019s perspective rather than from our perspective to\u2014as much as we are able\u2014see God\u2019s hand in what it is we are going through. One of the things we talk about, regularly, at the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway is that our spouse is God\u2019s perfect gift to us. We don\u2019t always see it that way in marriage. We can think that our spouse is our enemy; but in fact, God has given us a gift in our husband or our wife. We need to <em>embrace<\/em> that gift and see God\u2019s goodness in that gift.\n\nThis is a subject that Ashley Hales has dived into with her book, <em>A Spacious Life<\/em>. The subtitle is <em>Trading Hustle and Hurry for the Goodness of Limits<\/em>. It\u2019s a book that we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book is <em>A Spacious Life<\/em> by Ashley Hales. Order your copy from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, I want to get you ready for a change that is coming next week. To do that, I want to introduce a friend to you, who is with us, Shelby Abbott. Hello, Shelby.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Hey, Bob, how are you?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Shelby has been a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with us in the past. He is an author\/a speaker. He has been on staff with Cru, formerly Campus Crusade for Christ<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, for\u2014how many years?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Twenty-two-and-a-half; that\u2019s a long time.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are doing a podcast. What\u2019s the title of the podcast?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> It\u2019s called <em>A Real Life Loading<\/em>, and that is with FamilyLife.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In the weeks ahead, you are going to be the one who is taking over the responsibility of wrapping up this daily program\/this podcast, and talking with listeners about what we\u2019ve just heard and providing whatever show notes we need to provide for the program.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. You are passing the baton into my metaphorically sweaty palm. [Laughter]\u00a0 Hopefully, I will not blow it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I hope listeners will get a chance to get to know you. In fact, you and I took a few minutes recently and just visited and got a little bit of the background and the details\u2014your history\u2014so if listeners are interested in that, there is a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com where they can hear our conversation. When they hear you next week, and don\u2019t hear me, that\u2019s <em>normal<\/em>; that\u2019s the new normal; right?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Yes; what will <em>you<\/em> be doing from here on out now that you are leaving <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Many of our listeners know that, in addition to the work I\u2019ve done on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, I have been a bi-vocational pastor for more than a decade now. I will be spending more time in the ministry of our local church, where I am the one who does the preaching regularly\u2014still writing, still speaking\u2014but I\u2019m happy to hand this off to you and look forward to you taking things forward. So glad to have you here.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Thank you so much my friend. I really appreciate it, deeply.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Tomorrow, we hope you can be back with us. Ashley Hales is going to be here again\u2014but wait\u2014you\u2019re going to be doing this; do you want to take it from here?\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m happy to try\u2014sure; why not?\u2014I mean, it\u2019s going to be my job.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Tell everybody what\u2019s coming up tomorrow.\n\n<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> Now, tomorrow, Ashley Hales will be with us again and talking about the expectations we have in life never really matching up with reality. How do we meet God in the mundane?\u2014because He is there and present just as much as in the exciting moments.\n\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a CruMinistry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\nHow was that? What\u2019d you think?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was outstanding; I can leave <em>now<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Wow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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