{"id":307416,"date":"2022-02-22T08:03:10","date_gmt":"2022-02-22T13:03:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/parenting-passing-on-healthy-habits-for-kids\/"},"modified":"2022-02-22T08:03:10","modified_gmt":"2022-02-22T13:03:10","slug":"parenting-passing-on-healthy-habits-for-kids","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-passing-on-healthy-habits-for-kids\/","title":{"rendered":"Parenting: Passing On Healthy Habits For Kids"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What kinds of things do you want your kids to learn from you? On FamilyLife Today, authors Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey guide parents to understand and build habits that will provide lasting joy.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Joy-filled kids know how to work for and wait for what is truly satisfying in life. Authors Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey share life habits to instill in emotionally mature kids.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-22.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:17","filesize":"24.98M","filesize_raw":"26189675","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2850,2806],"tags":[7040],"podcast_series":[8506],"cwp_profile":[9589,9588],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307416","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character-development","category-spiritual-development","tag-reactive-parenting","podcast_series-4-habits-of-joy-filled-kids","cwp_profile-chris-coursey","cwp_profile-marcus-warner","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307416\/parenting-passing-on-healthy-habits-for-kids","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307416\/parenting-passing-on-healthy-habits-for-kids","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"YuIuIyVYl8\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-passing-on-healthy-habits-for-kids\/\">Parenting: Passing On Healthy Habits For Kids<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-passing-on-healthy-habits-for-kids\/embed\/#?secret=YuIuIyVYl8\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Parenting: Passing On Healthy Habits For Kids&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"YuIuIyVYl8\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-22.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-22.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Instead of saying we want to raise mature kids\u2014which can sound like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s labor intensive,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like we want to raise joy-filled kids; but it\u2019s really the same thing; it\u2019s like: \u201cHow do you handle the big emotions and still be okay?\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nI talk to a lot of moms and dads, but especially moms. I think most of them would say, \u201cI want my home to be filled with joy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I think every parent wants that. I\u2019ve got to say this: \u201cI think you achieve that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014joy?\u2014in our home? Ohhh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I knew you\u2019d be surprised. You are the most joy-filled joy-giver I\u2019ve ever been around in my life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s nice!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it is\u2014it\u2019s just like, when you walk in a room\u2014now, as a grandma, Noni, you walk in\u2014I mean, the grandkids they know <em>joy<\/em> just came in. When they see me, it\u2019s not so much joy; [Laughter] but when they see you, it\u2019s <em>joy<\/em>.\n\nI think every parent is hoping their kids and their grandkids would say, \u201cMy home, if it wasn\u2019t completely joy-filled, it was a sense of joy in that home.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re all attracted to joy, and we all want to be around those people.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And so we need to talk to two joy-givers. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They are sitting in the studio today. Dr. Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey are with us\u2014back again\u2014written a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em>.\n\nSo first of all, let\u2019s say welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Thank you; it\u2019s good to be back.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes; we appreciate it, Dave.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So let me ask you this\u2014I\u2019m going to just start right here, because you\u2019ve written on this\u2014we call you our brain guys, because you\u2019ve studied the brain and how that affects this whole thing. We did write a parenting book, and we never thought of joy being in the title. Even as I look at yours, I would think parents would be: \u201cOh, I want to raise <em>mature<\/em> kids,\u201d or \u201c\u2026well-rounded kids,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201c\u2026responsible.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and you say <em>joy-filled<\/em>.\n\nI know why; but I want you to tell our listeners: \u201cWhy do you start there?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, we start with joy because that\u2019s the fuel in which you\u2019re either going to live your life on\u2014fear or joy\u2014and we want our kids to run on the fuel of joy; because if I have a joy-filled kid, that kid\u2019s going to treat life as an adventure; right? They\u2019re not going to be afraid of things that might cause them shame, because they can recover from shame. They\u2019re not going to be afraid of things that are going to cause them anger or upset; because they know, \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m going to be okay if I feel that emotion.\u201d\n\nSo it <em>is<\/em> maturity; but instead of saying, \u201cWe want to raise mature kids,\u201d\u2014which can sound like: \u201cOh, that\u2019s labor intensive,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cWe want to raise joy-filled kids.\u201d It\u2019s really the same thing; it\u2019s like: \u201cHow do you handle the big emotions and still be okay?\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> And it\u2019s in that garden where all that other stuff can grow. So in a sense, joy is the soil\/the nutrient rich soil, where a lot of good things are going to grow. Joy provides the strength, the capacity, and the context for all these other qualities that we want to see in our children. It is in that garden of glad-to-be-together joy where we can really help our children learn all these character qualities that we want them to have.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Some of our listeners might be thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t even have that in my own life; how can I give that to my own kids?\u201d or \u201cMy spouse is really struggling,\u201d or \u201cThey\u2019re depressed, and our home has <em>none<\/em> of that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; we actually start out our book talking about my wife Jen. She just came from a very low-joy family and community. When I met her, it was a good day for her if she could get out of bed. She struggled with depression, and anxiety, and so forth. Basically, it was joy\u2014kind of what Marcus and I talk about in our book\u2014that really changed Jen\u2019s life. Now, I\u2019m watching this wonderful mother download and build joy with our sons. I just think, \u201cWow, God, You\u2019ve like breathed life into this woman that I am watching here; and she\u2019s now building joy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How? How did she change?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Well, the first thing was she worked with Jim Wilder, who\u2019s a friend of Marcus and I, and kind of a mentor. She learned about joy\u2014she learned the language and she learned that joy is relational\u2014she learned that joy is when people are glad to be together; that neuroscientists say, \u201cYou\u2019re the sparkle in someone else\u2019s eyes.\u201d She started to very proactively connect with other people, who could be glad to be with her.\n\nJoy grows as well as I can quiet myself; so in other words, if I\u2019m exhausted, I\u2019m not going to build joy. She started to learn to rest, which is like the other side of the coin of joy. Because let\u2019s face it: when we\u2019re tired, we just can\u2019t build joy; it\u2019s too much work; it\u2019s too much of a climb. So basically, building joy with her friends and her community, as well as learning to quiet\/learning to rest, just profoundly changed her life to the point where she\u2019s now passing on joy to our two sons. It\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em> to watch.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I do remember, and correct me if I\u2019m wrong; because you guys wrote the book\u2014but <em>The 4 Habits of Joy-Filled Marriages<\/em> based on the acrostic PLAN\u2014right?\u2014the \u201cP\u201d and the \u201cN\u201d both sort of dealt with what you\u2019re talking about, Chris. The Play and the Nurture rhythms\u2014or rest in your life\u2014are <em>critical<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; you know, let\u2019s face it\u2014we\u2019ve all interacted with people\u2014maybe it was tickling or chasing with a bug\u2014people who didn\u2019t know when to stop; right? So part of building joy is we know when it\u2019s time to stop, so people can rest. People who don\u2019t know when to stop, they just keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing.\n\nPlay is one of the best ways to build joy. Our brain is <em>wired<\/em> for that, and so play is a great way. I love to play with my sons, because you will hear laughter; you will see smiles on the faces that we\u2019re all just having a good time. But we also know when it\u2019s time to stop\u2014because energy levels are getting too high, or someone\u2019s looking too tired, or it\u2019s just not fun anymore\u2014so we\u2019re going to <em>pause<\/em>. Part of joy is just knowing, \u201cHey, it looks like you need a breather. I\u2019m going to stop; I\u2019m going to let you rest.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> That\u2019s part of the \u201cAttuning.\u201d So when we talk about the infant stage of it, we\u2019re saying you start by attuning. Part of the attuning is recognizing when they\u2019ve had enough. So we talk about doing joy workouts with your kids. Joy workouts is when you\u2019re playing with them, and getting the joy energies high, and then noticing when they\u2019ve had enough; and you stop and you rest together, but you\u2019re still together. You\u2019re still happy to be together, but we\u2019re resting together now; right? Then <em>they<\/em> let you know\u2014so you do this on <em>their<\/em> schedule\u2014when <em>they\u2019re<\/em> ready for more joy; you go back.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We talked a little bit last time about the four habits. Let\u2019s review because we spent a little bit on the \u201cA\u201d; but it\u2019s \u201cA,\u201d \u201cB,\u201d \u201cC,\u201d \u201cD.\u201d Tell us what they are, and we\u2019ve got to investigate a little bit more of this attuning thing.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Sure.\n<ul>\n \t<li>So \u201cAttuning\u201d is \u201cA.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>\u201cB\u201d is \u201cBuild bounce,\u201d which is the idea of help them get back from upsetting emotions.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>\u201cC\u201d is \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d We do have to correct our kids\u2014there are paths they get on we don\u2019t want them to be on\u2014so we do have to correct. But \u201cCorrect with care\u201d means do the \u201cAttuning\u201d and the \u201cBuild and bounce\u201d first; and then the \u201cCorrect.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Then the last one is \u201cDevelop skills relationally.\u201d We want our kids to be highly-skilled; we want them to have really good disciplines. We want them to be not afraid of new challenges; so the best way to do that is by being relationally engaged with them in this skill-building process.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nThat\u2019s the \u201cA,\u201d \u201cB,\u201d \u201cC,\u201d \u201cD.\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a blessing for Jen and I, my wife; we have two sons who are nine and eleven. We were training a lot of these relational skills before we had children, so it\u2019s been fun\u2014you can know the theory\/I knew all the theory\u2014but until I had children, I had no experience. It\u2019s been fun to learn.\n\nOne of the great things about all this material is\u2014look, we tell people in the book: \u201cGood parents aren\u2019t the parents that do everything perfectly. Good parents are the people who get really good at repairing when they mess up,\u201d\u2014so even though I train these skills, I still mess up all the time; and I\u2019ve gotten really good at <em>repairing<\/em> when I do mess up, so we\u2019re returning to joy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So as you\u2019re talking about \u201cAttuning,\u201d you even talk about it with infants\u2014like if your infant is crying\u2014you have a sad face, so that you\u2019re attuning to them.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> I have a very vivid picture of my father with my daughter. She\u2019s an infant, and she\u2019s crying; and he\u2019s got the magic touch. We\u2019re like, \u201cGrandpa could get her quiet.\u201d He picks her up; and the first thing he does is he just sticks out his bottom lip and he goes, \u201cOh, you\u2019re so boohoo; such a sad story\u201d; you know? He\u2019s just attuning with her with his voice and with his face, and she doesn\u2019t know what he\u2019s saying. Then he starts, after the attuning\u2014he starts, literally, bouncing her; right?\u2014and then tickling her and gets her back to joy. Within 90 seconds, she\u2019s okay again.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how does that work with a three-year-old or a two-year-old that\u2019s <em>screaming<\/em>? How do you attune?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And they say, like, \u201cI hate you! Get out of here!\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; I can remember vividly with my son during the twos. Marcus and I say in the book that, during that window of time, the brain\u2019s amplifier is turned on; so anger becomes rage. I can remember trying to help my son when he was in a glorious meltdown. Part of it, I tell parents, is we have to remember who we are: \u201c<em>I\u2019m<\/em> the father here. [Laughter] So my job is to stay relationally anchored while he\u2019s losing it.\u201d I\u2019m using my face; I\u2019m using my voice; I\u2019m comforting him. I might rub his back\u2014if he lets me\u2014I might rub his back and go, \u201cYou\u2019re really <em>mad<\/em>.\u201d Every now and then, he would come over to look at my face.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; he wanted to see my <em>face<\/em>, and then he would listen to my voice. Your relational brain is actually primarily nonverbal, so it\u2019s not the words; but it\u2019s the <em>voice tone<\/em> that helps.\n\nIn that process, he\u2019s basically <em>very angry<\/em>; and I\u2019m just trying to stay present and validate: \u201cYou are really <em>mad<\/em>. Wow! I can see it on your face.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So there\u2019s no judgment.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> No judgment.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s just attune.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; wait, wait, wait. So we\u2019re walking through the mall\u2014they don\u2019t get the candy\u2014and all of a sudden, they\u2019re on the floor, screaming their head off.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Never our kids but somebody else\u2019s. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Oh, yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you\u2019re attuning even right there, like, \u201cYou are <em>mad<\/em>!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you get on the floor too?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> I would get down to their level and go, \u201cYou are really <em>mad<\/em> here, and you know what? There\u2019s more I want to tell you here, but I can\u2019t talk to you when you\u2019re like this. We\u2019re going to have to take a deep breath, and we\u2019re going to have to calm down.\u201d\n\nI would take a deep breath [deep breath]\u2014there\u2019s a saying called \u201cmirror neurons\u201d in the brain\u2014so when you see somebody do something, your brain responds accordingly. So I will do what I want my child to do: so if I say, \u201cTake a deep breath,\u201d I\u2019m going to take a deep breath [deep breath]; and I\u2019m going to use my body language\u2014I\u2019m going to calm down\u2014\u201cI got a story to tell you, but I can\u2019t tell you that until we\u2019re done.\u201d\n\nMost young children\/they want to know what that story is, but we\u2019re going to calm down before we even do that. Because I won\u2019t engage\u2014I won\u2019t try to converse or have a conversation about whatever it is the meltdown is about\u2014the first thing we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019re going to get calm; we\u2019re going to get relational. When we\u2019re calm and relational, then we\u2019ll talk about what\u2019s going on. That\u2019s where it\u2019s a little different than what a lot of parents, intuitively, do\/is they want to use words.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019re going to fix it,\u201d \u201cYou better stop it,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re going to\u2026\u201d; you know?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWait \u2018til you get in the car!\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Oh, yes; oh, yes. Just keep in mind: \u201cWords <em>don\u2019t<\/em> help.\u201d It is: their brain wants to <em>see<\/em> it in you: \u201cYou show me what I should do right now.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Directly related to that is\u2014before about age four or five\u2014the brain cannot understand a negative command.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; this part I was like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, you should have heard her read your book out loud.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWhat?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cWait, wait, wait, wait; we\u2019re not supposed to give a negative command\u201d; so explain that.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Right; so let\u2019s say your kid\u2019s having a meltdown in the mall. You say, \u201cStop it! Do not\u2014do not\u2014you know, do not do that,\u201d\u2014what they hear is: \u201cBlah, blah, blah; do that.\u201d Their brain doesn\u2019t know how to decipher the negative. So if you say, \u201cDon\u2019t hit your sister,\u201d they\u2019re going to hear: \u201cBlah, blah, blah; hit your sister.\u201d\n\nSo what they\u2019re actually relying on is: they are reading <em>your<\/em> body language. They\u2019re trying to figure out: \u201cDo they really want me to hit my sister? No, it looks like they <em>don\u2019t<\/em>. It looks like they don\u2019t want me to hit my sister.\u201d But they\u2019re interpreting your body language, not your words. We rely way too often on our words, especially with really young kids, to get them to change things.\n\nBut if you stop to think about how hard it is for you to come up with a positive command\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s okay\u2014they\u2019re biting\u2014instead of saying, \u201cDon\u2019t bite\u201d; you\u2019re, \u201cBite the shoe\u201d? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus: <\/strong>No; you\u2019re like: \u201cLet\u2019s be gentle with your sister,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s be kind to your sister,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s do this\u2026\u201d Or if they\u2019re reaching out for the stove, you\u2019re like, \u201cPut your hands down by your side.\u201d But stop and think about it: it\u2019s really hard for us to think about: \u201cWhat would the positive command be?\u201d Think about how hard it is for their undeveloped brains to take your negative command and flip it around to a positive thing they\u2019re supposed to do.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But why can they\/their first response is \u201cNo!\u201d Do they\u2014\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, we taught them that; right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh!\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Children internalize what they see and what they hear. A lot of the children will say and do things that they\u2019ve <em>seen<\/em> in their environment. So keep that in mind; children, literally, are sponges\u2014they will absorb whatever is in the environment\u2014good, bad, or ugly. You will see that they will be responding like a parent, or like somebody else in the family, doing something. You might think to yourself, \u201cWhere in the world did they learn that?\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s like, \u201cOh, wait a minute.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> You don\u2019t have to have done it to your kid; they just have to have seen you do it to someone. Their brain will go, \u201cOh, that\u2019s how I\u2019m supposed to act if that ever happens to me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>fascinating<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> It is.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it makes us, as parents, become the parents and not respond in a childish manner, which is pretty much what I used to do a lot. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> We all do it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Especially, when you have three kids, five and under; you\u2019re tired\/you\u2019re worn out. So to have the maturity\u2014and maybe, not the sleep deprivation\u2014that allows you to respond in a way that is conducive to joy.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes; it takes a village to raise children because, as parents, we\u2019re running on \u201cE\u201d for empty, in many cases; and the results aren\u2019t good. So having the support of family, friends, community that can walk with us, and hold up our arms, really goes a long way. And for parents to give themselves a little bit of grace\/that: \u201cLook, you\u2019re not going to do it perfectly. Let\u2019s just get good at repairing and returning to joy whenever we lose it.\u201d\n\nIf your children are already adults, even just sharing what you\u2019re learning and taking responsibility for where you messed up. How redemptive that is for children to hear, even if it was a long time ago\u201420 years or whatever\u2014\u201cHey, I\u2019ve learned this; and I realized I didn\u2019t do this very well. If I could do it all over again, I would have wanted to be able to do this.\u201d That\u2019s a good message for our children to hear that says, \u201cWe are the type of people that, even when we mess up, we take responsibility for it. And you know what? We\u2019re going to learn from it. We\u2019re going to learn how to parent better and how to pass on the good stuff,\u201d even if it\u2019s grandchildren instead of children in that case.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019ve talked about \u201cAttuning.\u201d The second one is \u201cBuilding bounce\u201d; what\u2019s that?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> So \u201cBuilding bounce\u201d is the idea that we are staying relationally engaged with our kids through their upsetting emotions until they recover. I read something in\u2014it was Kay and Milan Yerkovich\u2019s book, <em>How We Love<\/em>\u2014and they said something about married couples coming in; and they would ask them the question: \u201cDo you have any memories of someone staying relationally engaged and comforting you from an upsetting emotion?\u201d Couple after couple would come in, and they could not\/not a single memory of anybody staying relationally engaged with them until they were comforted from an emotion.\n\nSo we\u2019re talking about, with \u201cBuilding bounce,\u201d is when my kid is emotionally distressed\u2014as a parent, remaining relationally attuned to them and engaged with them, and then walking them through the process of recovery\u2014that looks different in infants, and children, and adults.\n<ul>\n \t<li>So in infants, I have to do all of it for them; they have <em>no<\/em> capacity to recover.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Infants up to what age?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Three or four.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Okay, so we\u2019re talking about terrible twos too\u2014like, in the terrible twos, they have <em>no<\/em> capacity to comfort themselves\u2014so I have to do all of the work of walking them through how to comfort themselves. I need to stay relationally engaged with them until they bounce back. They bounce back when they feel like [breath sound] their breathing gets more regulated again, and they feel like they can go on with life, and act like themselves.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And to stay with them during that looks like?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> To stay with them, literally, could mean sitting there until they get through this or, at least, being with them until you can sense that they have recovered enough to move forward to the next thing.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay; so right away, I think this\u2014because this would be one of the ways we parent our kids and, now, we\u2019re watching our kids parent; and they\u2019re doing it a little different\u2014we\u2019re thinking, \u201cHey, you should do it the way we did.\u201d We pick up your book\u2014thank you for your book\u2014because we realized our kids are doing it much better than we did it. [Laughter]\n\nOne of them is this\/one of them is: \u201cHey, put them in the room and let them cry it out,\u201d\u2014<em>not<\/em> stay \u201cattuned.\u201d They need to get to sleep or whatever: \u201cThis is the only way to do it: you put them in the room; you shut the door. They may cry for an hour, half hour, whatever. They\u2019ll figure it out. Leave; do not go in there.\u201d We read your book; and it\u2019s like, \u201cNope; that\u2019s a <em>really<\/em> <em>bad<\/em> idea.\u201d Tell us why.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> One of the things Marcus and I talk about in the book is, when we put our children in the room all by themselves, and just let them cry, their brain is learning something very unhelpful, which is: \u201cI\u2019m alone in my feelings.\u201d Your survival circuit does <em>not<\/em> like being alone in your big feelings.\n\nKeep in mind the relational brain learns by <em>example<\/em>; so when we sit with them, and we help them quiet. So with that example, we had a chair in our house. Whenever our sons are losing it, we would go sit with them and just quiet. We just quiet\u2014so we practiced it\u2014to teach them and show them this is what we <em>do<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you would pick them up, take them to the chair\u2014\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Pick them up, go sit down; and we\u2019re going to quiet.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, you held them?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; if they\u2019re small, we would hold them; maybe rub their back until they got a little older. Then they could go, like, \u201cHey buddy, you\u2019re losing your joy here; why don\u2019t you go catch your breath and come back to the table when you\u2019re relational again?\u201d We just had the <em>language<\/em> for the stuff in our home: \u201cThis is just what we do.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Would they go to that chair?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019re not saying, \u201cYou\u2019re being an idiot. Go to the chair by yourself.\u201d We didn\u2019t say that.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> No; we just\u2014these were new habits\u2014because I didn\u2019t learn this; my family didn\u2019t do this stuff. So for me, we had to be very purposeful about it; but we showed them what we wanted them to do. We did it <em>with<\/em> them, and they could quiet.\n\nAs they got older, they knew, \u201cHey, go get relational and then come back when you\u2019re ready.\u201d Usually, it\u2019s just taking some deep breaths; or maybe, it\u2019s remembering some of the joyful moments from\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it sounds beautiful to think that there\u2019s dad or mom with son or daughter. It\u2019s a great picture of the heavenly Father. But let me ask you this, because you guys know the brain science so much better than almost all of us\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014all of us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cIs it also true that, when you say, \u2018Hey, go to your room; cry it out,\u2019\u2014whatever\u2014and nobody shows up, does your brain start to say, \u2018Oh, nobody\u2019s coming. I\u2019m alone; nobody\u2019s ever going to show up\u2019; is that true?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> It can be. I mean, that was probably my parents\u2019 favorite punishment for me was: \u201cGo to your room.\u201d It depends on if you\u2019re four years old\/three years old\u2014four years old or if you\u2019re ten years old\u2014right? So there\u2019s a difference in sending your ten-year-old to their room and sending a three-year-old to their room. What we\u2019re talking about here really is\u2014especially, in those formative years\u2014they have to have a rock-solid foundation of knowing: \u201cI don\u2019t get abandoned in my emotions.\u201d\n\nThen you get into\u2014we do what\u2019s called co-regulating in the child years, between like five and thirteen\u2014and that is, \u201cI am helping them learn the steps and the processes so that they can begin comforting themselves, and they can begin quieting themselves.\u201d Then the goal is, by the time you are an adult, you\u2019re coaching them through it and you\u2019re just kind of reminding them of the things that they already know.\n\nWhere we run into problems\/where most of us run into problems is that we become adults, and we haven\u2019t learned these skills ourselves. We\u2019re in the adult <em>age<\/em> of life, but we still need somebody else to comfort us when we get sad; because we never learned how to do it. So that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about is\u2014a lot of us, the repairs that we need in our own lives is learning how to bounce back from certain emotions\u2014like we\u2019re good with some, but we\u2019re not good with others.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Every listener just said, \u201cAmen to that.\u201d I think we develop coping mechanisms: it could be alcohol; it could be any sort of <em>something<\/em> to help us to cope.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, you said earlier, when we\u2019re talking about fear-based parenting in your book, you say one of the reasons we do that is unresolved pain in our own life. I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, boy\u201d; because that has to be dealt with or you\u2019re <em>never<\/em> going to be the parent you want to be, because you\u2019re just unable to get over your own brokenness.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We are just scratching the surface; aren\u2019t we? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> The good news is you don\u2019t have to be completely recovered to be a good parent; right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good news.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> The other good news, I think, is that sometimes people, who come up from broken families, end up being better parents than people who grow up in sort of mediocre families. Some of those people actually become very good parents.\n\nI think there\u2019s some hope there, too; you don\u2019t have to be fully recovered from all of your stuff to do this; right? You just need to develop these habits and these skills. But on the way, when you find there\u2019s some things you just keep banging your head against, it\u2019s usually because there\u2019s an emotion you have not yet learned how to return to joy from.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve all heard the announcement on airplanes, where they say, \u201cIn case of a loss of pressure, put your mask on first and then put the mask on your child.\u201d I think what we\u2019ve been hearing today from Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey is that for us to have joy-filled kids, we have to be working on the pursuit of joy in our own lives. As we\u2019ve heard, joy is a fruit of the Spirit. When we draw closer to Jesus\u2014when we stop and meditate on all that He\u2019s done for us\u2014one of the things the Holy Spirit will bring to us in that moment is joy. As we find ourselves growing in joy, then we can begin the process of helping our kids become joy-filled kids.\n\nMarcus Warner and Chris Coursey have written a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em>. It\u2019s a book that we\u2019ve got available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; and in fact, we\u2019d love to send a copy of this book to you. We\u2019re asking listeners this week, if you can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today,<\/em> either as a one-time donor or as one of our monthly contributors to this ministry, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em> as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for your financial support.\u201d\n\nLet me just say a word about where your money is actually going. You\u2019re going to help equip, and train, and encourage and disciple moms and dads\/husbands and wives, all across the country and around the world. There are hundreds of thousands of people, every day, who are connecting with us, here, at FamilyLife, looking for practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and their family. You\u2019re making that possible for them when you donate to this ministry.\n\nSo can we encourage you to make a donation today to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>? And when you do, request your copy of the book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids,<\/em> by Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey. We\u2019d love to send it to you. You can go donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d to make your donation by phone.\n\nNow, it\u2019s one thing for your elementary-aged kids, even for your toddlers to be pointed in the direction of joy. It\u2019s something else when you get to teenagers; right? Tomorrow, Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey will be here again to talk about how we can help our teens become more joy-filled. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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kids know how to work for and wait for what is truly satisfying in life. Authors Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey share life habits to instill in emotionally mature kids.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Instead of saying we want to raise mature kids\u2014which can sound like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s labor intensive,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like we want to raise joy-filled kids; but it\u2019s really the same thing; it\u2019s like: \u201cHow do you handle the big emotions and still be okay?\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nI talk to a lot of moms and dads, but especially moms. I think most of them would say, \u201cI want my home to be filled with joy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I think every parent wants that. I\u2019ve got to say this: \u201cI think you achieve that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014joy?\u2014in our home? Ohhh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I knew you\u2019d be surprised. You are the most joy-filled joy-giver I\u2019ve ever been around in my life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s nice!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it is\u2014it\u2019s just like, when you walk in a room\u2014now, as a grandma, Noni, you walk in\u2014I mean, the grandkids they know <em>joy<\/em> just came in. When they see me, it\u2019s not so much joy; [Laughter] but when they see you, it\u2019s <em>joy<\/em>.\n\nI think every parent is hoping their kids and their grandkids would say, \u201cMy home, if it wasn\u2019t completely joy-filled, it was a sense of joy in that home.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re all attracted to joy, and we all want to be around those people.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And so we need to talk to two joy-givers. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They are sitting in the studio today. Dr. Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey are with us\u2014back again\u2014written a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em>.\n\nSo first of all, let\u2019s say welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Thank you; it\u2019s good to be back.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes; we appreciate it, Dave.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So let me ask you this\u2014I\u2019m going to just start right here, because you\u2019ve written on this\u2014we call you our brain guys, because you\u2019ve studied the brain and how that affects this whole thing. We did write a parenting book, and we never thought of joy being in the title. Even as I look at yours, I would think parents would be: \u201cOh, I want to raise <em>mature<\/em> kids,\u201d or \u201c\u2026well-rounded kids,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201c\u2026responsible.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and you say <em>joy-filled<\/em>.\n\nI know why; but I want you to tell our listeners: \u201cWhy do you start there?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, we start with joy because that\u2019s the fuel in which you\u2019re either going to live your life on\u2014fear or joy\u2014and we want our kids to run on the fuel of joy; because if I have a joy-filled kid, that kid\u2019s going to treat life as an adventure; right? They\u2019re not going to be afraid of things that might cause them shame, because they can recover from shame. They\u2019re not going to be afraid of things that are going to cause them anger or upset; because they know, \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m going to be okay if I feel that emotion.\u201d\n\nSo it <em>is<\/em> maturity; but instead of saying, \u201cWe want to raise mature kids,\u201d\u2014which can sound like: \u201cOh, that\u2019s labor intensive,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cWe want to raise joy-filled kids.\u201d It\u2019s really the same thing; it\u2019s like: \u201cHow do you handle the big emotions and still be okay?\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> And it\u2019s in that garden where all that other stuff can grow. So in a sense, joy is the soil\/the nutrient rich soil, where a lot of good things are going to grow. Joy provides the strength, the capacity, and the context for all these other qualities that we want to see in our children. It is in that garden of glad-to-be-together joy where we can really help our children learn all these character qualities that we want them to have.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Some of our listeners might be thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t even have that in my own life; how can I give that to my own kids?\u201d or \u201cMy spouse is really struggling,\u201d or \u201cThey\u2019re depressed, and our home has <em>none<\/em> of that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; we actually start out our book talking about my wife Jen. She just came from a very low-joy family and community. When I met her, it was a good day for her if she could get out of bed. She struggled with depression, and anxiety, and so forth. Basically, it was joy\u2014kind of what Marcus and I talk about in our book\u2014that really changed Jen\u2019s life. Now, I\u2019m watching this wonderful mother download and build joy with our sons. I just think, \u201cWow, God, You\u2019ve like breathed life into this woman that I am watching here; and she\u2019s now building joy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How? How did she change?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Well, the first thing was she worked with Jim Wilder, who\u2019s a friend of Marcus and I, and kind of a mentor. She learned about joy\u2014she learned the language and she learned that joy is relational\u2014she learned that joy is when people are glad to be together; that neuroscientists say, \u201cYou\u2019re the sparkle in someone else\u2019s eyes.\u201d She started to very proactively connect with other people, who could be glad to be with her.\n\nJoy grows as well as I can quiet myself; so in other words, if I\u2019m exhausted, I\u2019m not going to build joy. She started to learn to rest, which is like the other side of the coin of joy. Because let\u2019s face it: when we\u2019re tired, we just can\u2019t build joy; it\u2019s too much work; it\u2019s too much of a climb. So basically, building joy with her friends and her community, as well as learning to quiet\/learning to rest, just profoundly changed her life to the point where she\u2019s now passing on joy to our two sons. It\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em> to watch.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I do remember, and correct me if I\u2019m wrong; because you guys wrote the book\u2014but <em>The 4 Habits of Joy-Filled Marriages<\/em> based on the acrostic PLAN\u2014right?\u2014the \u201cP\u201d and the \u201cN\u201d both sort of dealt with what you\u2019re talking about, Chris. The Play and the Nurture rhythms\u2014or rest in your life\u2014are <em>critical<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; you know, let\u2019s face it\u2014we\u2019ve all interacted with people\u2014maybe it was tickling or chasing with a bug\u2014people who didn\u2019t know when to stop; right? So part of building joy is we know when it\u2019s time to stop, so people can rest. People who don\u2019t know when to stop, they just keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing.\n\nPlay is one of the best ways to build joy. Our brain is <em>wired<\/em> for that, and so play is a great way. I love to play with my sons, because you will hear laughter; you will see smiles on the faces that we\u2019re all just having a good time. But we also know when it\u2019s time to stop\u2014because energy levels are getting too high, or someone\u2019s looking too tired, or it\u2019s just not fun anymore\u2014so we\u2019re going to <em>pause<\/em>. Part of joy is just knowing, \u201cHey, it looks like you need a breather. I\u2019m going to stop; I\u2019m going to let you rest.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> That\u2019s part of the \u201cAttuning.\u201d So when we talk about the infant stage of it, we\u2019re saying you start by attuning. Part of the attuning is recognizing when they\u2019ve had enough. So we talk about doing joy workouts with your kids. Joy workouts is when you\u2019re playing with them, and getting the joy energies high, and then noticing when they\u2019ve had enough; and you stop and you rest together, but you\u2019re still together. You\u2019re still happy to be together, but we\u2019re resting together now; right? Then <em>they<\/em> let you know\u2014so you do this on <em>their<\/em> schedule\u2014when <em>they\u2019re<\/em> ready for more joy; you go back.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We talked a little bit last time about the four habits. Let\u2019s review because we spent a little bit on the \u201cA\u201d; but it\u2019s \u201cA,\u201d \u201cB,\u201d \u201cC,\u201d \u201cD.\u201d Tell us what they are, and we\u2019ve got to investigate a little bit more of this attuning thing.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Sure.\n<ul>\n \t<li>So \u201cAttuning\u201d is \u201cA.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>\u201cB\u201d is \u201cBuild bounce,\u201d which is the idea of help them get back from upsetting emotions.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>\u201cC\u201d is \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d We do have to correct our kids\u2014there are paths they get on we don\u2019t want them to be on\u2014so we do have to correct. But \u201cCorrect with care\u201d means do the \u201cAttuning\u201d and the \u201cBuild and bounce\u201d first; and then the \u201cCorrect.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Then the last one is \u201cDevelop skills relationally.\u201d We want our kids to be highly-skilled; we want them to have really good disciplines. We want them to be not afraid of new challenges; so the best way to do that is by being relationally engaged with them in this skill-building process.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nThat\u2019s the \u201cA,\u201d \u201cB,\u201d \u201cC,\u201d \u201cD.\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a blessing for Jen and I, my wife; we have two sons who are nine and eleven. We were training a lot of these relational skills before we had children, so it\u2019s been fun\u2014you can know the theory\/I knew all the theory\u2014but until I had children, I had no experience. It\u2019s been fun to learn.\n\nOne of the great things about all this material is\u2014look, we tell people in the book: \u201cGood parents aren\u2019t the parents that do everything perfectly. Good parents are the people who get really good at repairing when they mess up,\u201d\u2014so even though I train these skills, I still mess up all the time; and I\u2019ve gotten really good at <em>repairing<\/em> when I do mess up, so we\u2019re returning to joy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So as you\u2019re talking about \u201cAttuning,\u201d you even talk about it with infants\u2014like if your infant is crying\u2014you have a sad face, so that you\u2019re attuning to them.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> I have a very vivid picture of my father with my daughter. She\u2019s an infant, and she\u2019s crying; and he\u2019s got the magic touch. We\u2019re like, \u201cGrandpa could get her quiet.\u201d He picks her up; and the first thing he does is he just sticks out his bottom lip and he goes, \u201cOh, you\u2019re so boohoo; such a sad story\u201d; you know? He\u2019s just attuning with her with his voice and with his face, and she doesn\u2019t know what he\u2019s saying. Then he starts, after the attuning\u2014he starts, literally, bouncing her; right?\u2014and then tickling her and gets her back to joy. Within 90 seconds, she\u2019s okay again.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how does that work with a three-year-old or a two-year-old that\u2019s <em>screaming<\/em>? How do you attune?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And they say, like, \u201cI hate you! Get out of here!\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; I can remember vividly with my son during the twos. Marcus and I say in the book that, during that window of time, the brain\u2019s amplifier is turned on; so anger becomes rage. I can remember trying to help my son when he was in a glorious meltdown. Part of it, I tell parents, is we have to remember who we are: \u201c<em>I\u2019m<\/em> the father here. [Laughter] So my job is to stay relationally anchored while he\u2019s losing it.\u201d I\u2019m using my face; I\u2019m using my voice; I\u2019m comforting him. I might rub his back\u2014if he lets me\u2014I might rub his back and go, \u201cYou\u2019re really <em>mad<\/em>.\u201d Every now and then, he would come over to look at my face.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; he wanted to see my <em>face<\/em>, and then he would listen to my voice. Your relational brain is actually primarily nonverbal, so it\u2019s not the words; but it\u2019s the <em>voice tone<\/em> that helps.\n\nIn that process, he\u2019s basically <em>very angry<\/em>; and I\u2019m just trying to stay present and validate: \u201cYou are really <em>mad<\/em>. Wow! I can see it on your face.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So there\u2019s no judgment.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> No judgment.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s just attune.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; wait, wait, wait. So we\u2019re walking through the mall\u2014they don\u2019t get the candy\u2014and all of a sudden, they\u2019re on the floor, screaming their head off.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Never our kids but somebody else\u2019s. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Oh, yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you\u2019re attuning even right there, like, \u201cYou are <em>mad<\/em>!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you get on the floor too?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> I would get down to their level and go, \u201cYou are really <em>mad<\/em> here, and you know what? There\u2019s more I want to tell you here, but I can\u2019t talk to you when you\u2019re like this. We\u2019re going to have to take a deep breath, and we\u2019re going to have to calm down.\u201d\n\nI would take a deep breath [deep breath]\u2014there\u2019s a saying called \u201cmirror neurons\u201d in the brain\u2014so when you see somebody do something, your brain responds accordingly. So I will do what I want my child to do: so if I say, \u201cTake a deep breath,\u201d I\u2019m going to take a deep breath [deep breath]; and I\u2019m going to use my body language\u2014I\u2019m going to calm down\u2014\u201cI got a story to tell you, but I can\u2019t tell you that until we\u2019re done.\u201d\n\nMost young children\/they want to know what that story is, but we\u2019re going to calm down before we even do that. Because I won\u2019t engage\u2014I won\u2019t try to converse or have a conversation about whatever it is the meltdown is about\u2014the first thing we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019re going to get calm; we\u2019re going to get relational. When we\u2019re calm and relational, then we\u2019ll talk about what\u2019s going on. That\u2019s where it\u2019s a little different than what a lot of parents, intuitively, do\/is they want to use words.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019re going to fix it,\u201d \u201cYou better stop it,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re going to\u2026\u201d; you know?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWait \u2018til you get in the car!\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Oh, yes; oh, yes. Just keep in mind: \u201cWords <em>don\u2019t<\/em> help.\u201d It is: their brain wants to <em>see<\/em> it in you: \u201cYou show me what I should do right now.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Directly related to that is\u2014before about age four or five\u2014the brain cannot understand a negative command.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; this part I was like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, you should have heard her read your book out loud.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWhat?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cWait, wait, wait, wait; we\u2019re not supposed to give a negative command\u201d; so explain that.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Right; so let\u2019s say your kid\u2019s having a meltdown in the mall. You say, \u201cStop it! Do not\u2014do not\u2014you know, do not do that,\u201d\u2014what they hear is: \u201cBlah, blah, blah; do that.\u201d Their brain doesn\u2019t know how to decipher the negative. So if you say, \u201cDon\u2019t hit your sister,\u201d they\u2019re going to hear: \u201cBlah, blah, blah; hit your sister.\u201d\n\nSo what they\u2019re actually relying on is: they are reading <em>your<\/em> body language. They\u2019re trying to figure out: \u201cDo they really want me to hit my sister? No, it looks like they <em>don\u2019t<\/em>. It looks like they don\u2019t want me to hit my sister.\u201d But they\u2019re interpreting your body language, not your words. We rely way too often on our words, especially with really young kids, to get them to change things.\n\nBut if you stop to think about how hard it is for you to come up with a positive command\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s okay\u2014they\u2019re biting\u2014instead of saying, \u201cDon\u2019t bite\u201d; you\u2019re, \u201cBite the shoe\u201d? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus: <\/strong>No; you\u2019re like: \u201cLet\u2019s be gentle with your sister,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s be kind to your sister,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s do this\u2026\u201d Or if they\u2019re reaching out for the stove, you\u2019re like, \u201cPut your hands down by your side.\u201d But stop and think about it: it\u2019s really hard for us to think about: \u201cWhat would the positive command be?\u201d Think about how hard it is for their undeveloped brains to take your negative command and flip it around to a positive thing they\u2019re supposed to do.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But why can they\/their first response is \u201cNo!\u201d Do they\u2014\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, we taught them that; right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh!\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Children internalize what they see and what they hear. A lot of the children will say and do things that they\u2019ve <em>seen<\/em> in their environment. So keep that in mind; children, literally, are sponges\u2014they will absorb whatever is in the environment\u2014good, bad, or ugly. You will see that they will be responding like a parent, or like somebody else in the family, doing something. You might think to yourself, \u201cWhere in the world did they learn that?\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s like, \u201cOh, wait a minute.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> You don\u2019t have to have done it to your kid; they just have to have seen you do it to someone. Their brain will go, \u201cOh, that\u2019s how I\u2019m supposed to act if that ever happens to me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>fascinating<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> It is.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it makes us, as parents, become the parents and not respond in a childish manner, which is pretty much what I used to do a lot. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> We all do it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Especially, when you have three kids, five and under; you\u2019re tired\/you\u2019re worn out. So to have the maturity\u2014and maybe, not the sleep deprivation\u2014that allows you to respond in a way that is conducive to joy.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes; it takes a village to raise children because, as parents, we\u2019re running on \u201cE\u201d for empty, in many cases; and the results aren\u2019t good. So having the support of family, friends, community that can walk with us, and hold up our arms, really goes a long way. And for parents to give themselves a little bit of grace\/that: \u201cLook, you\u2019re not going to do it perfectly. Let\u2019s just get good at repairing and returning to joy whenever we lose it.\u201d\n\nIf your children are already adults, even just sharing what you\u2019re learning and taking responsibility for where you messed up. How redemptive that is for children to hear, even if it was a long time ago\u201420 years or whatever\u2014\u201cHey, I\u2019ve learned this; and I realized I didn\u2019t do this very well. If I could do it all over again, I would have wanted to be able to do this.\u201d That\u2019s a good message for our children to hear that says, \u201cWe are the type of people that, even when we mess up, we take responsibility for it. And you know what? We\u2019re going to learn from it. We\u2019re going to learn how to parent better and how to pass on the good stuff,\u201d even if it\u2019s grandchildren instead of children in that case.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019ve talked about \u201cAttuning.\u201d The second one is \u201cBuilding bounce\u201d; what\u2019s that?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> So \u201cBuilding bounce\u201d is the idea that we are staying relationally engaged with our kids through their upsetting emotions until they recover. I read something in\u2014it was Kay and Milan Yerkovich\u2019s book, <em>How We Love<\/em>\u2014and they said something about married couples coming in; and they would ask them the question: \u201cDo you have any memories of someone staying relationally engaged and comforting you from an upsetting emotion?\u201d Couple after couple would come in, and they could not\/not a single memory of anybody staying relationally engaged with them until they were comforted from an emotion.\n\nSo we\u2019re talking about, with \u201cBuilding bounce,\u201d is when my kid is emotionally distressed\u2014as a parent, remaining relationally attuned to them and engaged with them, and then walking them through the process of recovery\u2014that looks different in infants, and children, and adults.\n<ul>\n \t<li>So in infants, I have to do all of it for them; they have <em>no<\/em> capacity to recover.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Infants up to what age?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Three or four.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Okay, so we\u2019re talking about terrible twos too\u2014like, in the terrible twos, they have <em>no<\/em> capacity to comfort themselves\u2014so I have to do all of the work of walking them through how to comfort themselves. I need to stay relationally engaged with them until they bounce back. They bounce back when they feel like [breath sound] their breathing gets more regulated again, and they feel like they can go on with life, and act like themselves.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And to stay with them during that looks like?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> To stay with them, literally, could mean sitting there until they get through this or, at least, being with them until you can sense that they have recovered enough to move forward to the next thing.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay; so right away, I think this\u2014because this would be one of the ways we parent our kids and, now, we\u2019re watching our kids parent; and they\u2019re doing it a little different\u2014we\u2019re thinking, \u201cHey, you should do it the way we did.\u201d We pick up your book\u2014thank you for your book\u2014because we realized our kids are doing it much better than we did it. [Laughter]\n\nOne of them is this\/one of them is: \u201cHey, put them in the room and let them cry it out,\u201d\u2014<em>not<\/em> stay \u201cattuned.\u201d They need to get to sleep or whatever: \u201cThis is the only way to do it: you put them in the room; you shut the door. They may cry for an hour, half hour, whatever. They\u2019ll figure it out. Leave; do not go in there.\u201d We read your book; and it\u2019s like, \u201cNope; that\u2019s a <em>really<\/em> <em>bad<\/em> idea.\u201d Tell us why.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> One of the things Marcus and I talk about in the book is, when we put our children in the room all by themselves, and just let them cry, their brain is learning something very unhelpful, which is: \u201cI\u2019m alone in my feelings.\u201d Your survival circuit does <em>not<\/em> like being alone in your big feelings.\n\nKeep in mind the relational brain learns by <em>example<\/em>; so when we sit with them, and we help them quiet. So with that example, we had a chair in our house. Whenever our sons are losing it, we would go sit with them and just quiet. We just quiet\u2014so we practiced it\u2014to teach them and show them this is what we <em>do<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you would pick them up, take them to the chair\u2014\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Pick them up, go sit down; and we\u2019re going to quiet.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, you held them?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; if they\u2019re small, we would hold them; maybe rub their back until they got a little older. Then they could go, like, \u201cHey buddy, you\u2019re losing your joy here; why don\u2019t you go catch your breath and come back to the table when you\u2019re relational again?\u201d We just had the <em>language<\/em> for the stuff in our home: \u201cThis is just what we do.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Would they go to that chair?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019re not saying, \u201cYou\u2019re being an idiot. Go to the chair by yourself.\u201d We didn\u2019t say that.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> No; we just\u2014these were new habits\u2014because I didn\u2019t learn this; my family didn\u2019t do this stuff. So for me, we had to be very purposeful about it; but we showed them what we wanted them to do. We did it <em>with<\/em> them, and they could quiet.\n\nAs they got older, they knew, \u201cHey, go get relational and then come back when you\u2019re ready.\u201d Usually, it\u2019s just taking some deep breaths; or maybe, it\u2019s remembering some of the joyful moments from\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it sounds beautiful to think that there\u2019s dad or mom with son or daughter. It\u2019s a great picture of the heavenly Father. But let me ask you this, because you guys know the brain science so much better than almost all of us\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014all of us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cIs it also true that, when you say, \u2018Hey, go to your room; cry it out,\u2019\u2014whatever\u2014and nobody shows up, does your brain start to say, \u2018Oh, nobody\u2019s coming. I\u2019m alone; nobody\u2019s ever going to show up\u2019; is that true?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> It can be. I mean, that was probably my parents\u2019 favorite punishment for me was: \u201cGo to your room.\u201d It depends on if you\u2019re four years old\/three years old\u2014four years old or if you\u2019re ten years old\u2014right? So there\u2019s a difference in sending your ten-year-old to their room and sending a three-year-old to their room. What we\u2019re talking about here really is\u2014especially, in those formative years\u2014they have to have a rock-solid foundation of knowing: \u201cI don\u2019t get abandoned in my emotions.\u201d\n\nThen you get into\u2014we do what\u2019s called co-regulating in the child years, between like five and thirteen\u2014and that is, \u201cI am helping them learn the steps and the processes so that they can begin comforting themselves, and they can begin quieting themselves.\u201d Then the goal is, by the time you are an adult, you\u2019re coaching them through it and you\u2019re just kind of reminding them of the things that they already know.\n\nWhere we run into problems\/where most of us run into problems is that we become adults, and we haven\u2019t learned these skills ourselves. We\u2019re in the adult <em>age<\/em> of life, but we still need somebody else to comfort us when we get sad; because we never learned how to do it. So that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about is\u2014a lot of us, the repairs that we need in our own lives is learning how to bounce back from certain emotions\u2014like we\u2019re good with some, but we\u2019re not good with others.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Every listener just said, \u201cAmen to that.\u201d I think we develop coping mechanisms: it could be alcohol; it could be any sort of <em>something<\/em> to help us to cope.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, you said earlier, when we\u2019re talking about fear-based parenting in your book, you say one of the reasons we do that is unresolved pain in our own life. I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, boy\u201d; because that has to be dealt with or you\u2019re <em>never<\/em> going to be the parent you want to be, because you\u2019re just unable to get over your own brokenness.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We are just scratching the surface; aren\u2019t we? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> The good news is you don\u2019t have to be completely recovered to be a good parent; right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good news.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> The other good news, I think, is that sometimes people, who come up from broken families, end up being better parents than people who grow up in sort of mediocre families. Some of those people actually become very good parents.\n\nI think there\u2019s some hope there, too; you don\u2019t have to be fully recovered from all of your stuff to do this; right? You just need to develop these habits and these skills. But on the way, when you find there\u2019s some things you just keep banging your head against, it\u2019s usually because there\u2019s an emotion you have not yet learned how to return to joy from.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve all heard the announcement on airplanes, where they say, \u201cIn case of a loss of pressure, put your mask on first and then put the mask on your child.\u201d I think what we\u2019ve been hearing today from Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey is that for us to have joy-filled kids, we have to be working on the pursuit of joy in our own lives. As we\u2019ve heard, joy is a fruit of the Spirit. When we draw closer to Jesus\u2014when we stop and meditate on all that He\u2019s done for us\u2014one of the things the Holy Spirit will bring to us in that moment is joy. As we find ourselves growing in joy, then we can begin the process of helping our kids become joy-filled kids.\n\nMarcus Warner and Chris Coursey have written a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em>. It\u2019s a book that we\u2019ve got available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; and in fact, we\u2019d love to send a copy of this book to you. We\u2019re asking listeners this week, if you can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today,<\/em> either as a one-time donor or as one of our monthly contributors to this ministry, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em> as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for your financial support.\u201d\n\nLet me just say a word about where your money is actually going. You\u2019re going to help equip, and train, and encourage and disciple moms and dads\/husbands and wives, all across the country and around the world. There are hundreds of thousands of people, every day, who are connecting with us, here, at FamilyLife, looking for practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and their family. You\u2019re making that possible for them when you donate to this ministry.\n\nSo can we encourage you to make a donation today to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>? And when you do, request your copy of the book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids,<\/em> by Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey. We\u2019d love to send it to you. You can go donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d to make your donation by phone.\n\nNow, it\u2019s one thing for your elementary-aged kids, even for your toddlers to be pointed in the direction of joy. It\u2019s something else when you get to teenagers; right? Tomorrow, Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey will be here again to talk about how we can help our teens become more joy-filled. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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