{"id":307414,"date":"2022-02-21T08:02:06","date_gmt":"2022-02-21T13:02:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-joyful-parent-how-to-get-there\/"},"modified":"2022-02-21T08:02:06","modified_gmt":"2022-02-21T13:02:06","slug":"the-joyful-parent-how-to-get-there","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-joyful-parent-how-to-get-there\/","title":{"rendered":"The Joyful Parent: How to Get There"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Wanna know how to be a joyful parent? On FamilyLife Today, authors Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey share habits that build joy into you &#8211;and your kids too!<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>fueled by joy or fear, over-parent or under-parent because of fear&#8230;need joy instead<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-21.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:46","filesize":"24.51M","filesize_raw":"25703313","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2850,2806],"tags":[7039],"podcast_series":[8506],"cwp_profile":[9589,9588],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307414","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character-development","category-spiritual-development","tag-healthy-habits-for-kids","podcast_series-4-habits-of-joy-filled-kids","cwp_profile-chris-coursey","cwp_profile-marcus-warner","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307414\/the-joyful-parent-how-to-get-there","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307414\/the-joyful-parent-how-to-get-there","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"p5M6YElD07\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-joyful-parent-how-to-get-there\/\">The Joyful Parent: How to Get There<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-joyful-parent-how-to-get-there\/embed\/#?secret=p5M6YElD07\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Joyful Parent: How to Get There&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"p5M6YElD07\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-21.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-21.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright, so bringing our first-born home from the hospital\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you know, what?\u201430; how old is he?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thirty-five years ago.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright\u2014so CJ, 35 years old now, married\u2014but when he was an infant, brought him home; put him in the crib in a rental house; remember that place?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And literally, stood over the crib, looking down; and what was I thinking?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cI have no idea what to do with this child.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>exactly<\/em> what I was thinking. I was like, \u201cI have\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, because I was thinking the same!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\"no clue.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were thinking it too. But I also was thinking, \u201cI never had a dad, so I don\u2019t know how to be a dad. I\u2019ve never had a baby.\u201d I remember picking up your brother, Ted, when he was a baby. Everybody in the house was throwing him up in the air. I\u2019d never done that, because I\u2019d <em>never<\/em> been around babies. So I take him and throw him up in the air, and he hits the ceiling; remember that?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Everybody looked at me like, \u201cAre you clueless?\u201d [Laughter]\n\nSo there I am\u2014now, I\u2019m a dad\u2014and I have no clue what to do.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think most parents feel like that. They bring their baby home; and they\u2019re thinking, \u201cNow what?\u201d Then they enter the toddlers; or the two- and three-year-olds that\u2019s hard; and then they have teenagers. Each stage, you\u2019re trying to figure out: \u201c<em>Now<\/em>, what do I do?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So we\u2019re all looking for help. I\u2019m excited to tell you we have, in the studio with us today, <em>help<\/em> for all parents. We have two dads; right?\u2014who we\u2019ve had here before. You know what? Ann and I call you guys\u2014you\u2019re the brain guys\u2014we\u2019ve got Dr. Marcus Warner with us today and Chris Coursey. You\u2019ve been with us before; we\u2019re going to say, \u201cWelcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Appreciate it; it\u2019s good to be here.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Two years ago you were here. You wrote a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Joy-Filled Marriages<\/em>. I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014you don\u2019t know this\u2014but after that time with you guys, we stole that material: [Laughter] I preached it at my church. We actually did a message on it on the FamilyLife <em>Love Like You Mean It Cruise<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><em>.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We did.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Oh, nice.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They asked us to do a workshop.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We gave you credit.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I don\u2019t think we gave them any credit; we took all the credit. [Laughter] No, we actually did; because it was enlightening to us\u2014and to anyone that reads and hears this\u2014how the brain functions in terms of joy.\n\nSo let\u2019s talk about your new book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids: A Simple Model for Developing Your Child\u2019s Maturity at Every Stage<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Parents are leaning in right now; they\u2019re like \u201cWait, we\u2019re going to talk about this; and we\u2019re going to talk about brain science with it?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, that\u2019s why\/explain what I mean by: \u201cYou\u2019re the brain guys.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, both of us were mentored by Dr. Jim Wilder, who is a brain science researcher. He ran a counseling center in Southern California for 30 years. He was in on the original stuff coming out of the UCLA Med Center when they first were able to take three-dimensional pictures of the brain. He\u2019s been studying this stuff; he\u2019s really about ten years ahead in creating exercises and putting this in practice: \u201cHow do you actually help people get better?\u201d\n\nChris was mentored by Jim. The two of them\/it was working with Jim that Chris began developing exercises to help people learn: \u201cThis is what it looks like to live with greater joy.\u201d Because one of the things we find out is nobody ever says, \u201cYou know what my problem is? I just have too much joy. [Laughter] I think I\u2019m going to go to therapy this week because I just\u2026\u201d; you know, nobody says that; right?\n\nSo what is it about joy that is so contagious\/so important? And finding out that it\u2019s literally the fuel, on which the brain works, has been driving a lot of what we\u2019ve been doing.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, every person I know\u2014including all of us sitting here right now and every person listening\u2014is <em>longing<\/em> for joy; we\u2019re on a <em>search<\/em> for joy. You\u2019ve even talked about how the brain has a joy switch; that\u2019s one of your other books.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Well, you know, your brain\u2019s an amplifier; God made our brain to amplify something. Usually, it will amplify whatever is in the environment. If it\u2019s trained on joy, you can even go into a bad day, and yet, you can still amplify joy, even under the really tough conditions.\n\nBut if your brain is <em>not<\/em> trained by joy: you know, you ever talk to someone, and they\u2019re mad, and the next thing you know, you\u2019re mad?\u2014or they\u2019re anxious; and the next thing you know, you\u2019re anxious.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s called marriage.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; yes! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s contagious.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> So Marcus and I wanted to give a language that: \u201cYou know what? Joy is possible. God designed the human brain to run on glad-to-be-together joy\u2014where faces light up; you hear it in the voice; you see it in the mannerisms; you see it in the body\u2014that you walk into that room, and somebody is glad it\u2019s <em>you<\/em> that just walked through that door.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re saying this is really important; because those words, \u201cjoy-filled,\u201d are both in your marriage book and in this parenting book. Joy-filled\u2014you\u2019re saying this is one of the most important things you can bring into a family or a home\u2014why is that?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Most people think joy\u2019s the icing on the cake of life, but it\u2019s actually the <em>fuel<\/em> that drives it. What happens: your life is either going to be run on joy or fear: it\u2019s really those are the two fuels.\n\nWhat we\u2019re saying is we want joy-filled kids, and the opposite would be fear-filled kids; right? Nobody wants to raise a fear-filled kid. If you\u2019re going to help them overcome those fears, they have to learn: \u201cHow do I get back to joy from my various emotions?\u201d Because we all feel shame; we all feel anger; we all feel all the emotions. The question is: \u201cCan I recover from those? Can I stay myself when I feel those?\u201d That\u2019s what maturity is all about.\n\nJoy and maturity are actually directly related. Think about: the most mature people in your life are the ones that you go to when you need to get some joy back; right? It\u2019s like: \u201cI need to talk to somebody, who\u2019s going to help me get my joy back.\u201d You look for someone mature, who isn\u2019t going to be overwhelmed by what you\u2019re saying\/isn\u2019t going to get blown away by this. They\u2019ve got enough capacity to handle what you\u2019re talking about.\n\nIn the same way, we want our kids to have capacity. We want them to have that emotional capacity\u2014to be able to do the hard things in life\u2014and still live with joy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I mean, I\u2019m thinking of James 1; did you think that too?\u2014like: \u201cConsider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So is James saying that too?\u2014\u201cNo matter the trials that you\u2019re going through\/the persecution\u201d\u2014which the church was going through\u2014\u201cyou can still be joy-filled, regardless of your circumstances\u201d?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> You know, that\u2019s right. That\u2019s a very important distinction that Marcus and I make in the book:\n<ul>\n \t<li>That happiness is just: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m happy because a new movie is coming out, and I\u2019ve been wanting to see this movie.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Joy is: \u201cI\u2019m going to share this with you, even the trials\/even the tribulations. You know what? I\u2019m not alone for Someone is with me.\u201d We have a God, who is a Good Shepherd, who is glad to be with His sheep.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nWhen we think about God being with us, I mean, part of what\u2019s beautiful about heaven is we know that joy is going to be there\/that God is going to be <em>glad<\/em> to be with us. So what Marcus and I are trying to do here is share this message that: \u201cYou know what? Joy is a reflection of heaven. And the brain is designed for joy; that literally, when you see someone light up to see you, it physically changes your brain. Your brain is <em>changed<\/em> every time you see someone light up to see you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I think, as a parent, when you were talking about fear-based\/joy-based with our kids, my first thought was, \u201cWell, what about us as parents?\u201d Because I think we live, often, in fear; as a parent, we\u2019re afraid of so many things. When they\u2019re little kids, you think you\u2019re afraid they\u2019re going to get hurt. Then they become teenagers; you\u2019re like\u2014\u201cOh, I used to be afraid; <em>now<\/em>, I\u2019m really afraid,\u201d\u2014because now, they\u2019re making decisions that are life-altering. So how do we get from fear to joy?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> You know, that\u2019s kind of shocking; isn\u2019t it?\u2014 most of the problems that we run into, as parents, come from our own fears. So our opening chapter is: \u201cWhy Is Parenting So Hard?\u201d And the fundamental answer is: \u201cWe\u2019re afraid.\u201d We can be afraid, because we know we don\u2019t have skills; we know we grew up in a home that <em>lacked<\/em> skills.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019re like\u2014this is Dave and I when we bring our son\u2014\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWe have terrible backgrounds; we\u2019re going to mess this up\u201d; so we\u2019re fear-filled.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> So you start off, fear-based; and that leads to one of two results. You either under-parent or you over-parent. So if you under-parent: \u201cI\u2019m avoiding parenting, because I\u2019m afraid I\u2019m going to mess this up.\u201d When I over-parent: \u201cI\u2019m trying to control <em>everything<\/em>, because I\u2019m afraid I\u2019m going to mess this up.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have just diagnosed the two of us. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus: <\/strong>Well, there you go. We\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Who\u2019s the over\/under? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am <em>definitely<\/em> the over.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m the under. I just wanted to make sure she knew. [Laughter] And I always thought I was right, and she was wrong; but you\u2019re saying <em>both<\/em> are wrong.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re saying both are fear-based.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Both are fear-based.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> It\u2019s a completely different system in the brain. So when you run on fear, you\u2019re just trying to solve a problem. It\u2019s not relational\u2014you don\u2019t need the relational parts of your brain to just solve a problem\u2014my son\u2019s about to cross\/run into the street; I just have to stop that. Your brain doesn\u2019t need all the relational pieces; it just: \u201cOkay, there\u2019s a problem; fix it.\u201d\n\nJoy is desire-driven; that means: \u201cHey, I really want to be with <em>you<\/em>. I\u2019m glad that you\u2019re here; I\u2019m <em>glad<\/em> that it\u2019s you,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m glad we\u2019re in this together.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So I\u2019m the under sort of guy\u2014and again, you\u2019re making me sound like I have no rules and no boundaries\u2014I always had that, but there was a tendency for me to say, \u201cLet them go.\u201d What\u2019s the fear in that? What am I afraid of?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, some of that is good. What we want is our kids to learn how to face their fears and not be afraid of them. But what makes that possible is that they know we\u2019re going to be there with them; they\u2019re not going to be alone in it.\n\nWhat really messes kids up, to a certain extent, is when they get in these overwhelming emotions\u2014and they\u2019re essentially [told] \u201cWell, go to your room until you figure it out,\u201d\u2014like I\u2019m three years old, and I\u2019m feeling <em>rage<\/em>. I just called you an idiot; right?\u2014because I\u2019m three; and you\u2019re standing in front of me, and I\u2019m mad\u2014you\u2019re like: \u201cWe don\u2019t do that here. You go to your room, young man.\u201d We\u2019re dealing with the problem, but we\u2019re not dealing with the person; right?\n\nSo what we\u2019re talking about here is getting away from that left-brain parenting, that treats our kids like problems to be solved, and getting into the right-brain parenting that treats them like people\u2014connects to them\/attunes to them like people first\u2014and then gets to the problem-solving second.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> At the end of the day, as parents, we have to learn how to manage what we feel; right? I\u2019m as good as my ability to manage what I feel. So my children are watching me: \u201cHow does Daddy handle this big feeling?\u201d Because, ultimately, our children will learn by our example\u2014good, bad, or ugly\u2014right? Your relational brain <em>learns<\/em> by watching other people. That\u2019s why we will sometimes do things we resent: like, \u201cOh, I sound like my dad,\u201d or \u201cI sound like my mom.\u201d Because your relational brain <em>learns<\/em> by watching other people.\n\nSo with that example that Marcus gave, the child has to learn: \u201cShow me how to handle this big feeling, because I\u2019m going to act out right now; and then you <em>show<\/em> me a better way.\u201d So when we punish them\u2014and we don\u2019t stay relationally-connected to <em>show<\/em> them a better way\u2014they\u2019re just going to learn whatever they have to work with. Often, the things we come up with on our own are not very good. We need other people, who have traveled this road before who have a very clear idea: \u201cThis is who we are, and this is how we behave under these conditions.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I thought it was good, too, that you start out\u2014and you\u2019ve been talking about characteristics of low-joy parenting\u2014you know that I was reading some of those, and identifying, like: \u201cOh, yes; I have to admit this: \u201cI did everything wrong!\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s what I thought: \u201cI did it all wrong.\u201d\n\nSo talk about that: \u201cWhen we talk about low-joy parenting, what are we seeing?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Low-joy parenting comes from the fact that I am fear-based in my parenting; and it\u2019s, usually, because I didn\u2019t get what I needed. We talk about six big negative emotions. The idea is that on the right side of your brain there are six core emotions that we feel, instinctively, as a reaction to things. It\u2019s not because we\u2019re thinking about something\u2014it\u2019s not like cognitive therapy, where we thought our way into it\u2014we\u2019re just <em>reacting<\/em> to these things. Every child has to learn how to keep the higher levels of their brain on and functioning with all six of these emotions. So to whichever one you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> learn to keep your higher-level brain functions on, you have a hole in your maturity development.\n\nA lot of us are good with parenting our kids when they\u2019re having shame, or they\u2019re having sadness, or they\u2019re having disgust or something; but we can\u2019t handle it when they\u2019re having something else, because <em>we<\/em> never developed that capacity; we\u2019re <em>missing<\/em> that. So our low joy is coming from the fact that we don\u2019t know how to handle these emotions, because nobody ever taught us how to.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let\u2019s say we\u2019re triggered when our kids do something\u2014like if our kids get super angry, and they lash out and say terrible things; and now, we\u2019re triggered; and we start lashing out\u2014is that a low maturity? Should that be a little clue, like, \u201cOh\u201d?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> No; that\u2019s a clear sign of low joy, low maturity, low capacity; because essentially, I\u2019ve now gone down to their level; and we\u2019re two kids having it down. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> It\u2019s really helpful to know your children. They\u2019re looking for an example of: \u201cYou show me how to navigate this\/show me how to manage what I feel; and right now, I\u2019m really mad; and I\u2019m going to do what I know to do.\u201d Sometimes that\u2019s really ugly\u2014right?\u2014it\u2019s really messy.\n\nParents\u2014when that joy tank is a little low\u2014then what will happen is: \u201cI will just get angry. I will see them\u2014and I will raise it ten more\u2014and I will get more intense and <em>bigger<\/em> consequences.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to ask this though\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014I mean, because I\u2019m sitting there, going, \u201cSo what do we do?!\u201d If I\u2019m that dad\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, every parent is thinking\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and I know what the spouse is thinking: \u201cI\u2019m married to that guy. I don\u2019t have the problem, but <em>he<\/em> has the problem,\u201d or \u201c\u2026<em>she<\/em> has the problem,\u201d\u2014so it\u2019s like the dad or the mom isn\u2019t mature enough to even <em>see<\/em> what they\u2019re doing. You know, a third party can see it\u2014you can see it at the grocery store in aisle seven, like, \u201cLook at that parent!\u201d\u2014but we have a hard time seeing it when we\u2019re doing it.\n\nSo how does a\u2014it\u2019s like an immature parent is what you\u2019re saying\u2014right?\u2014a low-joy parent: \u201cHow do we grow up?\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> One of the things Marcus and I talk about in the book is, in those moments, we want to remember quieting is a good thing. Anytime I can pause and quiet, that actually helps me to catch my breath. So with my children, it\u2019s in those moments\u2014where there\u2019s a blow up, and I find I\u2019m really angry\u2014the first thing I\u2019ll do is I\u2019ve got to pause; I\u2019ve got to breathe; I want to get relational again.\n\nWe also have exercises in the book\u2014where we have parents get together with other parents and tell your failure stories, but how you learned something valuable\u2014so you hear these redemptive stories from others: \u201cOkay, well, give me an example when you lost it with your child and how did you recover? How did you handle that?\u201d Your brain also learns from <em>stories<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> So if I don\u2019t have that joy or I don\u2019t have that particular skill\u2014but I know some friends who are really good at that skill\u2014I could say: \u201cMarcus, hey, I notice you are really good at handling your anger with your children. Can you tell me some stories of times\u2026\u201d \u201cHow did you learn this?\u201d \u201cGive me some examples of how you did this.\u201d That basically updates your brain; so the next time you get angry, your brain says, \u201cOh, wait a minute; I have something on file here. I can pull from that file and use that.\u201d A lot of the times, as parents, we just need examples.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you know, that\u2019s something I don\u2019t think parents do a lot of. We do marriage\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because we\u2019re shame-filled.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I mean, in some ways, even in a church, we have married small groups\u2014you don\u2019t have as many parenting small groups, where you get parents in a room\u2014like you\u2019re saying\u2014and say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s talk. You\u2019ve got teenagers; I\u2019ve got a four-year-old; what did you learn when you had a little guy, and what do I need to do?\u201d and vice versa. There should be a small group that comes out soon about that\u2014maybe, there is one called <em>No Perfect Parents<\/em>\u2014okay? Anyway, [Laughter] that\u2019s the end of my little ad.\n\nWhat were you going to say, Marcus, about that?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> The title of our book is <em>The 4 Habits<\/em>\u2026; right? The first of the two habits are directly related to this, and the first one\u2019s \u201cAttuning.\u201d What attuning is, essentially, is reading body language. The first job of the parent is to read your kid\u2019s body language. If you see that they are really angry from their body language, then you go to the next one, which is help them \u201cBounce back\u201d from their anger.\n\nSo you do that by validating it. You validate it nonverbally; so you\u2019re like, \u201cWhat do I do?\u201d\n<ul>\n \t<li>First, you nonverbally validate the emotion. So you maybe get an angry face look on your face, too, like, \u201cOh, you\u2019re really angry; aren\u2019t you?\u201d Then you use words, like: \u201cClearly, you\u2019re really angry about this. This is really making you mad. Why don\u2019t we both take a deep breath?\u201d [Breath sound]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Right now, I\u2019m going to comfort this\u2014I\u2019m going to say: \u201cDon\u2019t worry; this isn\u2019t going to happen\u2026\u201d \u201cThis isn\u2019t going to happen\u2026\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s look at it a new way; let\u2019s come up with a new plan,\u201d\u2014my goal is to get them back to feeling like themselves.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>And then, we\u2019ll do a correcting [on] what\u2019s going on. So that\u2019s the \u201cC\u201d: \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAttune,\u201d \u201cBounce back,\u201d \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> \u201cAttune,\u201d \u201cBounce back,\u201d \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d So you take terrible twos, for example. The biggest mistake most people make in the terrible twos is they\u2019re completely behavior focused, and they just want this to <em>stop<\/em>; right? \u201cI don\u2019t want this attitude,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t want this explosion; I just want it to stop.\u201d So they skip attuning, and they skip helping the kid bounce back emotionally; and they go straight to correcting the behavior.\n\nWhat we\u2019re saying is that correcting the behavior is a left-brained task; that is, treating the child like a problem. We need to make sure we treat them like a child first\u2014help them recover emotionally; give them a model of how\/that \u201cI\u2019m not overwhelmed by your anger. It\u2019s not in my world that you\u2019re mad at me,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a sign of maturity; right? If them getting angry at me changes who I am into a different person, that says more about my maturity level than them.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Every parent right now is like, \u201cOh, no!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> And it\u2019s very important here, because this is really helpful for parents. Look, the worst conditions for the brain to process pain is when I feel alone. The moment I feel alone, that puts me in the <em>toughest<\/em> conditions to manage what I\u2019m feeling. So what Marcus is saying is very important; because what we\u2019re saying to our children is: \u201cLook, there might need to be some consequences here; but right now, I see you; I hear you; we\u2019re in this together; we\u2019re going to get through it.\u201d That says, \u201cHey, you\u2019re not alone.\u201d That actually helps your child to have the best chances of recovering <em>and<\/em> correcting the behavior afterwards, so this is big.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I was reading this, and as I was thinking about this attuning part, that\u2019s the part that I didn\u2019t do. I skipped straight to correcting; because I\u2019m thinking, \u201cThis is my job as a parent. I\u2019m going to teach you, train you, and correct you.\u201d\n\nBut it was interesting\u2014we\u2019ve just had lunch together, and it\u2019s been <em>great<\/em> as we\u2019ve been talking about this\u2014like Chris, you are the most attuning person and validating person I\u2019ve ever <em>met<\/em>. I felt like, \u201cThis guy <em>hears<\/em> me; he <em>sees<\/em> what I\u2019m saying.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m feeling like, \u201cUh, [Laughter] like you\u2019re saying the guy you\u2019re married to doesn\u2019t?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; what I\u2019m realizing is <em>I<\/em> didn\u2019t do that to our kids, like just to validate: \u201cOh, you\u2019re really mad.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And what you guys are saying is: \u201cWhat Ann <em>feels<\/em> is what our child feels\u2014right?\u2014\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwhen we, as a parent, attune\u201d?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s like weeping with those who weep would be the biblical way of looking at this: \u201cLet\u2019s just weep. I see you\u2019re sad; I\u2019m going to share it.\u201d The good thing is, with a little bit of practice, this is a habit. I don\u2019t even realize I\u2019m doing it; I didn\u2019t realize I was doing it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you see it, Marcus?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Oh yes; Chris is definitely the most attuning person, male especially, that I\u2019ve known.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> I don\u2019t even realize it just because it\u2019s just these habits I\u2019ve learned. Now, when I <em>started<\/em> my journey, there was no way\u2014I would have minimized; I wouldn\u2019t have been able to enter in\u2014I definitely wouldn\u2019t have been able to validate, because I didn\u2019t grow up with these skills. This is just because of some work in my own life to get here. It\u2019s encouraging to hear that, because it didn\u2019t come naturally.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ve actually\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That is good to hear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014spent most time on the first of the four habits, the attuning. But let me end with this: \u201cWhat would you say to a person\u2014or mom or dad\u2014who\u2019s like, \u2018I\u2019m just really bad at that. How do I get better at attuning?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s a good point. You learn to pay attention to body language first of all, and remind yourself you have to make it a task that you\u2019re learning. It takes, at least, 30 days for your brain to develop a habit; right? So you\u2019ve got to make it a task at first\u2014say: \u201cI\u2019ve got to pay attention to their body language; what emotion am I seeing here? Can I name that emotion accurately? Can I name how <em>big<\/em> that emotion is?\u201d\n\nA lot of times, Chris mentioned minimizing. Sometimes, we minimize our kids\u2019 emotions; because it doesn\u2019t feel like it should be that big to <em>us<\/em>, so we assume it can\u2019t be that big for <em>them<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we\u2019re afraid they\u2019re going to become whiners and dramatic; and so there we get, again, into the fear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Exactly; so the thing to do there is to <em>meet<\/em> them in how big it is for them and then help them dial it back down from there. Instead of just saying, \u201cDon\u2019t ever get that big with your emotions,\u201d we need to <em>meet<\/em> them in how big this is for them and then help them dial it back.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> That\u2019s why this is good for parents to do as a group, like you mentioned. To do these things as a group, we can see where I\u2019m weak, you\u2019re strong; where you\u2019re weak, I might be strong. So doing this with other parents really is valuable.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s interesting as I\u2014I\u2019m smiling because as I listened to you, I\u2019m like, \u201cThat takes so much maturity,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like you\u2019re being so rational. When I\u2019m in that moment, I\u2019m so <em>irrational<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\nBut you said it earlier\u2014it\u2019s like it\u2019s a moment to pause and go, \u201cOkay, take a deep breath\u201d; this isn\u2019t just for the kid; this is for mom and dad to go, \u201cTake a deep breath. What\u2019s the first habit? Oh, attune; okay,\u201d\u2014I mean, it actually can be done; right? I mean, as I hear you say that, I\u2019m like, \u201cThis can be done. This can change a home\u2019s culture, and environment, and atmosphere if a parent can learn to: \u2018Okay, I\u2019m going to start with understanding their emotion, and matching that, and then walking them <em>with me<\/em> out of it.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s a beautiful process.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was thinking, too, Dave, as you said that\u2014I think, as we take a breath, and we take a step back just to say a quick prayer, too\u2014because God\u2019s in it. He helps us to kind of regulate and to take a breath and to get perspective. And the Holy Spirit\u2014I mean, when you look at the fruit of the Spirit\u2014even love, joy, peace, patience, kindness; He\u2019s always there to help if we ask Him.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m just thinking to myself, \u201cWhat parent hasn\u2019t <em>longed<\/em> for some help to adjust the emotional thermostat in your home?\u201d I mean, there are days when the thermostat is <em>way chilly<\/em>, and you\u2019d like to warm things up a little bit; and you just don\u2019t know if it\u2019s safe to do that. I think what we\u2019ve heard today from Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey is a great first step for us, as parents, to know how we can begin to warm things up when our children have made it <em>chilly<\/em> in the house\/when their emotions are causing things to be tense in our home. How can we move toward joy?\n\nMarcus Warner and Chris Coursey have written a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em>, and we want to make this book available to every <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. Those of you who are tuned in, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of the book. We\u2019re just asking if you would help with the cost of producing and syndicating this program by making a donation. Every dollar you donate to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> helps us extend the reach of this ministry\/helps us reach more people, more often, with practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and for their family. What you\u2019ve heard today has been made possible because of listeners, like you, who have given in the past.\n\nSo if you\u2019re a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, and you\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> made a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today,<\/em> or if you\u2019re a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener who has donated in the past but maybe it\u2019s been a while, make a donation today and ask for your copy of the book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-filled Kids<\/em>, when you get in touch with us. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Or get your copy of the book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-filled Kids<\/em>, when you make a donation by calling 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey about how we can pursue a joy-filled home and raising joy-filled kids if <em>we<\/em> struggle to get to joy ourselves. With everything that\u2019s going on in our lives\u2014the stress and the pressure\u2014if joy is hard for us, how can we raise joy-filled kids? We\u2019ll hear more about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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by joy or fear, over-parent or under-parent because of fear...need joy instead","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright, so bringing our first-born home from the hospital\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you know, what?\u201430; how old is he?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thirty-five years ago.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright\u2014so CJ, 35 years old now, married\u2014but when he was an infant, brought him home; put him in the crib in a rental house; remember that place?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And literally, stood over the crib, looking down; and what was I thinking?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cI have no idea what to do with this child.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>exactly<\/em> what I was thinking. I was like, \u201cI have\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, because I was thinking the same!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\"no clue.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were thinking it too. But I also was thinking, \u201cI never had a dad, so I don\u2019t know how to be a dad. I\u2019ve never had a baby.\u201d I remember picking up your brother, Ted, when he was a baby. Everybody in the house was throwing him up in the air. I\u2019d never done that, because I\u2019d <em>never<\/em> been around babies. So I take him and throw him up in the air, and he hits the ceiling; remember that?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Everybody looked at me like, \u201cAre you clueless?\u201d [Laughter]\n\nSo there I am\u2014now, I\u2019m a dad\u2014and I have no clue what to do.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think most parents feel like that. They bring their baby home; and they\u2019re thinking, \u201cNow what?\u201d Then they enter the toddlers; or the two- and three-year-olds that\u2019s hard; and then they have teenagers. Each stage, you\u2019re trying to figure out: \u201c<em>Now<\/em>, what do I do?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So we\u2019re all looking for help. I\u2019m excited to tell you we have, in the studio with us today, <em>help<\/em> for all parents. We have two dads; right?\u2014who we\u2019ve had here before. You know what? Ann and I call you guys\u2014you\u2019re the brain guys\u2014we\u2019ve got Dr. Marcus Warner with us today and Chris Coursey. You\u2019ve been with us before; we\u2019re going to say, \u201cWelcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Appreciate it; it\u2019s good to be here.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Two years ago you were here. You wrote a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Joy-Filled Marriages<\/em>. I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014you don\u2019t know this\u2014but after that time with you guys, we stole that material: [Laughter] I preached it at my church. We actually did a message on it on the FamilyLife <em>Love Like You Mean It Cruise<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><em>.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We did.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Oh, nice.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They asked us to do a workshop.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We gave you credit.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I don\u2019t think we gave them any credit; we took all the credit. [Laughter] No, we actually did; because it was enlightening to us\u2014and to anyone that reads and hears this\u2014how the brain functions in terms of joy.\n\nSo let\u2019s talk about your new book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids: A Simple Model for Developing Your Child\u2019s Maturity at Every Stage<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Parents are leaning in right now; they\u2019re like \u201cWait, we\u2019re going to talk about this; and we\u2019re going to talk about brain science with it?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, that\u2019s why\/explain what I mean by: \u201cYou\u2019re the brain guys.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, both of us were mentored by Dr. Jim Wilder, who is a brain science researcher. He ran a counseling center in Southern California for 30 years. He was in on the original stuff coming out of the UCLA Med Center when they first were able to take three-dimensional pictures of the brain. He\u2019s been studying this stuff; he\u2019s really about ten years ahead in creating exercises and putting this in practice: \u201cHow do you actually help people get better?\u201d\n\nChris was mentored by Jim. The two of them\/it was working with Jim that Chris began developing exercises to help people learn: \u201cThis is what it looks like to live with greater joy.\u201d Because one of the things we find out is nobody ever says, \u201cYou know what my problem is? I just have too much joy. [Laughter] I think I\u2019m going to go to therapy this week because I just\u2026\u201d; you know, nobody says that; right?\n\nSo what is it about joy that is so contagious\/so important? And finding out that it\u2019s literally the fuel, on which the brain works, has been driving a lot of what we\u2019ve been doing.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, every person I know\u2014including all of us sitting here right now and every person listening\u2014is <em>longing<\/em> for joy; we\u2019re on a <em>search<\/em> for joy. You\u2019ve even talked about how the brain has a joy switch; that\u2019s one of your other books.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Well, you know, your brain\u2019s an amplifier; God made our brain to amplify something. Usually, it will amplify whatever is in the environment. If it\u2019s trained on joy, you can even go into a bad day, and yet, you can still amplify joy, even under the really tough conditions.\n\nBut if your brain is <em>not<\/em> trained by joy: you know, you ever talk to someone, and they\u2019re mad, and the next thing you know, you\u2019re mad?\u2014or they\u2019re anxious; and the next thing you know, you\u2019re anxious.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s called marriage.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; yes! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s contagious.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> So Marcus and I wanted to give a language that: \u201cYou know what? Joy is possible. God designed the human brain to run on glad-to-be-together joy\u2014where faces light up; you hear it in the voice; you see it in the mannerisms; you see it in the body\u2014that you walk into that room, and somebody is glad it\u2019s <em>you<\/em> that just walked through that door.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re saying this is really important; because those words, \u201cjoy-filled,\u201d are both in your marriage book and in this parenting book. Joy-filled\u2014you\u2019re saying this is one of the most important things you can bring into a family or a home\u2014why is that?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Most people think joy\u2019s the icing on the cake of life, but it\u2019s actually the <em>fuel<\/em> that drives it. What happens: your life is either going to be run on joy or fear: it\u2019s really those are the two fuels.\n\nWhat we\u2019re saying is we want joy-filled kids, and the opposite would be fear-filled kids; right? Nobody wants to raise a fear-filled kid. If you\u2019re going to help them overcome those fears, they have to learn: \u201cHow do I get back to joy from my various emotions?\u201d Because we all feel shame; we all feel anger; we all feel all the emotions. The question is: \u201cCan I recover from those? Can I stay myself when I feel those?\u201d That\u2019s what maturity is all about.\n\nJoy and maturity are actually directly related. Think about: the most mature people in your life are the ones that you go to when you need to get some joy back; right? It\u2019s like: \u201cI need to talk to somebody, who\u2019s going to help me get my joy back.\u201d You look for someone mature, who isn\u2019t going to be overwhelmed by what you\u2019re saying\/isn\u2019t going to get blown away by this. They\u2019ve got enough capacity to handle what you\u2019re talking about.\n\nIn the same way, we want our kids to have capacity. We want them to have that emotional capacity\u2014to be able to do the hard things in life\u2014and still live with joy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I mean, I\u2019m thinking of James 1; did you think that too?\u2014like: \u201cConsider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So is James saying that too?\u2014\u201cNo matter the trials that you\u2019re going through\/the persecution\u201d\u2014which the church was going through\u2014\u201cyou can still be joy-filled, regardless of your circumstances\u201d?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> You know, that\u2019s right. That\u2019s a very important distinction that Marcus and I make in the book:\n<ul>\n \t<li>That happiness is just: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m happy because a new movie is coming out, and I\u2019ve been wanting to see this movie.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Joy is: \u201cI\u2019m going to share this with you, even the trials\/even the tribulations. You know what? I\u2019m not alone for Someone is with me.\u201d We have a God, who is a Good Shepherd, who is glad to be with His sheep.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nWhen we think about God being with us, I mean, part of what\u2019s beautiful about heaven is we know that joy is going to be there\/that God is going to be <em>glad<\/em> to be with us. So what Marcus and I are trying to do here is share this message that: \u201cYou know what? Joy is a reflection of heaven. And the brain is designed for joy; that literally, when you see someone light up to see you, it physically changes your brain. Your brain is <em>changed<\/em> every time you see someone light up to see you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I think, as a parent, when you were talking about fear-based\/joy-based with our kids, my first thought was, \u201cWell, what about us as parents?\u201d Because I think we live, often, in fear; as a parent, we\u2019re afraid of so many things. When they\u2019re little kids, you think you\u2019re afraid they\u2019re going to get hurt. Then they become teenagers; you\u2019re like\u2014\u201cOh, I used to be afraid; <em>now<\/em>, I\u2019m really afraid,\u201d\u2014because now, they\u2019re making decisions that are life-altering. So how do we get from fear to joy?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> You know, that\u2019s kind of shocking; isn\u2019t it?\u2014 most of the problems that we run into, as parents, come from our own fears. So our opening chapter is: \u201cWhy Is Parenting So Hard?\u201d And the fundamental answer is: \u201cWe\u2019re afraid.\u201d We can be afraid, because we know we don\u2019t have skills; we know we grew up in a home that <em>lacked<\/em> skills.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019re like\u2014this is Dave and I when we bring our son\u2014\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWe have terrible backgrounds; we\u2019re going to mess this up\u201d; so we\u2019re fear-filled.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> So you start off, fear-based; and that leads to one of two results. You either under-parent or you over-parent. So if you under-parent: \u201cI\u2019m avoiding parenting, because I\u2019m afraid I\u2019m going to mess this up.\u201d When I over-parent: \u201cI\u2019m trying to control <em>everything<\/em>, because I\u2019m afraid I\u2019m going to mess this up.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have just diagnosed the two of us. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcus: <\/strong>Well, there you go. We\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Who\u2019s the over\/under? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am <em>definitely<\/em> the over.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m the under. I just wanted to make sure she knew. [Laughter] And I always thought I was right, and she was wrong; but you\u2019re saying <em>both<\/em> are wrong.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re saying both are fear-based.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Both are fear-based.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> It\u2019s a completely different system in the brain. So when you run on fear, you\u2019re just trying to solve a problem. It\u2019s not relational\u2014you don\u2019t need the relational parts of your brain to just solve a problem\u2014my son\u2019s about to cross\/run into the street; I just have to stop that. Your brain doesn\u2019t need all the relational pieces; it just: \u201cOkay, there\u2019s a problem; fix it.\u201d\n\nJoy is desire-driven; that means: \u201cHey, I really want to be with <em>you<\/em>. I\u2019m glad that you\u2019re here; I\u2019m <em>glad<\/em> that it\u2019s you,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m glad we\u2019re in this together.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So I\u2019m the under sort of guy\u2014and again, you\u2019re making me sound like I have no rules and no boundaries\u2014I always had that, but there was a tendency for me to say, \u201cLet them go.\u201d What\u2019s the fear in that? What am I afraid of?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Well, some of that is good. What we want is our kids to learn how to face their fears and not be afraid of them. But what makes that possible is that they know we\u2019re going to be there with them; they\u2019re not going to be alone in it.\n\nWhat really messes kids up, to a certain extent, is when they get in these overwhelming emotions\u2014and they\u2019re essentially [told] \u201cWell, go to your room until you figure it out,\u201d\u2014like I\u2019m three years old, and I\u2019m feeling <em>rage<\/em>. I just called you an idiot; right?\u2014because I\u2019m three; and you\u2019re standing in front of me, and I\u2019m mad\u2014you\u2019re like: \u201cWe don\u2019t do that here. You go to your room, young man.\u201d We\u2019re dealing with the problem, but we\u2019re not dealing with the person; right?\n\nSo what we\u2019re talking about here is getting away from that left-brain parenting, that treats our kids like problems to be solved, and getting into the right-brain parenting that treats them like people\u2014connects to them\/attunes to them like people first\u2014and then gets to the problem-solving second.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> At the end of the day, as parents, we have to learn how to manage what we feel; right? I\u2019m as good as my ability to manage what I feel. So my children are watching me: \u201cHow does Daddy handle this big feeling?\u201d Because, ultimately, our children will learn by our example\u2014good, bad, or ugly\u2014right? Your relational brain <em>learns<\/em> by watching other people. That\u2019s why we will sometimes do things we resent: like, \u201cOh, I sound like my dad,\u201d or \u201cI sound like my mom.\u201d Because your relational brain <em>learns<\/em> by watching other people.\n\nSo with that example that Marcus gave, the child has to learn: \u201cShow me how to handle this big feeling, because I\u2019m going to act out right now; and then you <em>show<\/em> me a better way.\u201d So when we punish them\u2014and we don\u2019t stay relationally-connected to <em>show<\/em> them a better way\u2014they\u2019re just going to learn whatever they have to work with. Often, the things we come up with on our own are not very good. We need other people, who have traveled this road before who have a very clear idea: \u201cThis is who we are, and this is how we behave under these conditions.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I thought it was good, too, that you start out\u2014and you\u2019ve been talking about characteristics of low-joy parenting\u2014you know that I was reading some of those, and identifying, like: \u201cOh, yes; I have to admit this: \u201cI did everything wrong!\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s what I thought: \u201cI did it all wrong.\u201d\n\nSo talk about that: \u201cWhen we talk about low-joy parenting, what are we seeing?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Low-joy parenting comes from the fact that I am fear-based in my parenting; and it\u2019s, usually, because I didn\u2019t get what I needed. We talk about six big negative emotions. The idea is that on the right side of your brain there are six core emotions that we feel, instinctively, as a reaction to things. It\u2019s not because we\u2019re thinking about something\u2014it\u2019s not like cognitive therapy, where we thought our way into it\u2014we\u2019re just <em>reacting<\/em> to these things. Every child has to learn how to keep the higher levels of their brain on and functioning with all six of these emotions. So to whichever one you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> learn to keep your higher-level brain functions on, you have a hole in your maturity development.\n\nA lot of us are good with parenting our kids when they\u2019re having shame, or they\u2019re having sadness, or they\u2019re having disgust or something; but we can\u2019t handle it when they\u2019re having something else, because <em>we<\/em> never developed that capacity; we\u2019re <em>missing<\/em> that. So our low joy is coming from the fact that we don\u2019t know how to handle these emotions, because nobody ever taught us how to.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let\u2019s say we\u2019re triggered when our kids do something\u2014like if our kids get super angry, and they lash out and say terrible things; and now, we\u2019re triggered; and we start lashing out\u2014is that a low maturity? Should that be a little clue, like, \u201cOh\u201d?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> No; that\u2019s a clear sign of low joy, low maturity, low capacity; because essentially, I\u2019ve now gone down to their level; and we\u2019re two kids having it down. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> It\u2019s really helpful to know your children. They\u2019re looking for an example of: \u201cYou show me how to navigate this\/show me how to manage what I feel; and right now, I\u2019m really mad; and I\u2019m going to do what I know to do.\u201d Sometimes that\u2019s really ugly\u2014right?\u2014it\u2019s really messy.\n\nParents\u2014when that joy tank is a little low\u2014then what will happen is: \u201cI will just get angry. I will see them\u2014and I will raise it ten more\u2014and I will get more intense and <em>bigger<\/em> consequences.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to ask this though\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014I mean, because I\u2019m sitting there, going, \u201cSo what do we do?!\u201d If I\u2019m that dad\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, every parent is thinking\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and I know what the spouse is thinking: \u201cI\u2019m married to that guy. I don\u2019t have the problem, but <em>he<\/em> has the problem,\u201d or \u201c\u2026<em>she<\/em> has the problem,\u201d\u2014so it\u2019s like the dad or the mom isn\u2019t mature enough to even <em>see<\/em> what they\u2019re doing. You know, a third party can see it\u2014you can see it at the grocery store in aisle seven, like, \u201cLook at that parent!\u201d\u2014but we have a hard time seeing it when we\u2019re doing it.\n\nSo how does a\u2014it\u2019s like an immature parent is what you\u2019re saying\u2014right?\u2014a low-joy parent: \u201cHow do we grow up?\u201d\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> One of the things Marcus and I talk about in the book is, in those moments, we want to remember quieting is a good thing. Anytime I can pause and quiet, that actually helps me to catch my breath. So with my children, it\u2019s in those moments\u2014where there\u2019s a blow up, and I find I\u2019m really angry\u2014the first thing I\u2019ll do is I\u2019ve got to pause; I\u2019ve got to breathe; I want to get relational again.\n\nWe also have exercises in the book\u2014where we have parents get together with other parents and tell your failure stories, but how you learned something valuable\u2014so you hear these redemptive stories from others: \u201cOkay, well, give me an example when you lost it with your child and how did you recover? How did you handle that?\u201d Your brain also learns from <em>stories<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> So if I don\u2019t have that joy or I don\u2019t have that particular skill\u2014but I know some friends who are really good at that skill\u2014I could say: \u201cMarcus, hey, I notice you are really good at handling your anger with your children. Can you tell me some stories of times\u2026\u201d \u201cHow did you learn this?\u201d \u201cGive me some examples of how you did this.\u201d That basically updates your brain; so the next time you get angry, your brain says, \u201cOh, wait a minute; I have something on file here. I can pull from that file and use that.\u201d A lot of the times, as parents, we just need examples.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you know, that\u2019s something I don\u2019t think parents do a lot of. We do marriage\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because we\u2019re shame-filled.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I mean, in some ways, even in a church, we have married small groups\u2014you don\u2019t have as many parenting small groups, where you get parents in a room\u2014like you\u2019re saying\u2014and say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s talk. You\u2019ve got teenagers; I\u2019ve got a four-year-old; what did you learn when you had a little guy, and what do I need to do?\u201d and vice versa. There should be a small group that comes out soon about that\u2014maybe, there is one called <em>No Perfect Parents<\/em>\u2014okay? Anyway, [Laughter] that\u2019s the end of my little ad.\n\nWhat were you going to say, Marcus, about that?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> The title of our book is <em>The 4 Habits<\/em>\u2026; right? The first of the two habits are directly related to this, and the first one\u2019s \u201cAttuning.\u201d What attuning is, essentially, is reading body language. The first job of the parent is to read your kid\u2019s body language. If you see that they are really angry from their body language, then you go to the next one, which is help them \u201cBounce back\u201d from their anger.\n\nSo you do that by validating it. You validate it nonverbally; so you\u2019re like, \u201cWhat do I do?\u201d\n<ul>\n \t<li>First, you nonverbally validate the emotion. So you maybe get an angry face look on your face, too, like, \u201cOh, you\u2019re really angry; aren\u2019t you?\u201d Then you use words, like: \u201cClearly, you\u2019re really angry about this. This is really making you mad. Why don\u2019t we both take a deep breath?\u201d [Breath sound]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Right now, I\u2019m going to comfort this\u2014I\u2019m going to say: \u201cDon\u2019t worry; this isn\u2019t going to happen\u2026\u201d \u201cThis isn\u2019t going to happen\u2026\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s look at it a new way; let\u2019s come up with a new plan,\u201d\u2014my goal is to get them back to feeling like themselves.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>And then, we\u2019ll do a correcting [on] what\u2019s going on. So that\u2019s the \u201cC\u201d: \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAttune,\u201d \u201cBounce back,\u201d \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> \u201cAttune,\u201d \u201cBounce back,\u201d \u201cCorrect with care.\u201d So you take terrible twos, for example. The biggest mistake most people make in the terrible twos is they\u2019re completely behavior focused, and they just want this to <em>stop<\/em>; right? \u201cI don\u2019t want this attitude,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t want this explosion; I just want it to stop.\u201d So they skip attuning, and they skip helping the kid bounce back emotionally; and they go straight to correcting the behavior.\n\nWhat we\u2019re saying is that correcting the behavior is a left-brained task; that is, treating the child like a problem. We need to make sure we treat them like a child first\u2014help them recover emotionally; give them a model of how\/that \u201cI\u2019m not overwhelmed by your anger. It\u2019s not in my world that you\u2019re mad at me,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a sign of maturity; right? If them getting angry at me changes who I am into a different person, that says more about my maturity level than them.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Every parent right now is like, \u201cOh, no!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> And it\u2019s very important here, because this is really helpful for parents. Look, the worst conditions for the brain to process pain is when I feel alone. The moment I feel alone, that puts me in the <em>toughest<\/em> conditions to manage what I\u2019m feeling. So what Marcus is saying is very important; because what we\u2019re saying to our children is: \u201cLook, there might need to be some consequences here; but right now, I see you; I hear you; we\u2019re in this together; we\u2019re going to get through it.\u201d That says, \u201cHey, you\u2019re not alone.\u201d That actually helps your child to have the best chances of recovering <em>and<\/em> correcting the behavior afterwards, so this is big.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I was reading this, and as I was thinking about this attuning part, that\u2019s the part that I didn\u2019t do. I skipped straight to correcting; because I\u2019m thinking, \u201cThis is my job as a parent. I\u2019m going to teach you, train you, and correct you.\u201d\n\nBut it was interesting\u2014we\u2019ve just had lunch together, and it\u2019s been <em>great<\/em> as we\u2019ve been talking about this\u2014like Chris, you are the most attuning person and validating person I\u2019ve ever <em>met<\/em>. I felt like, \u201cThis guy <em>hears<\/em> me; he <em>sees<\/em> what I\u2019m saying.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m feeling like, \u201cUh, [Laughter] like you\u2019re saying the guy you\u2019re married to doesn\u2019t?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; what I\u2019m realizing is <em>I<\/em> didn\u2019t do that to our kids, like just to validate: \u201cOh, you\u2019re really mad.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And what you guys are saying is: \u201cWhat Ann <em>feels<\/em> is what our child feels\u2014right?\u2014\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwhen we, as a parent, attune\u201d?\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s like weeping with those who weep would be the biblical way of looking at this: \u201cLet\u2019s just weep. I see you\u2019re sad; I\u2019m going to share it.\u201d The good thing is, with a little bit of practice, this is a habit. I don\u2019t even realize I\u2019m doing it; I didn\u2019t realize I was doing it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you see it, Marcus?\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Oh yes; Chris is definitely the most attuning person, male especially, that I\u2019ve known.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> I don\u2019t even realize it just because it\u2019s just these habits I\u2019ve learned. Now, when I <em>started<\/em> my journey, there was no way\u2014I would have minimized; I wouldn\u2019t have been able to enter in\u2014I definitely wouldn\u2019t have been able to validate, because I didn\u2019t grow up with these skills. This is just because of some work in my own life to get here. It\u2019s encouraging to hear that, because it didn\u2019t come naturally.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ve actually\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That is good to hear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014spent most time on the first of the four habits, the attuning. But let me end with this: \u201cWhat would you say to a person\u2014or mom or dad\u2014who\u2019s like, \u2018I\u2019m just really bad at that. How do I get better at attuning?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s a good point. You learn to pay attention to body language first of all, and remind yourself you have to make it a task that you\u2019re learning. It takes, at least, 30 days for your brain to develop a habit; right? So you\u2019ve got to make it a task at first\u2014say: \u201cI\u2019ve got to pay attention to their body language; what emotion am I seeing here? Can I name that emotion accurately? Can I name how <em>big<\/em> that emotion is?\u201d\n\nA lot of times, Chris mentioned minimizing. Sometimes, we minimize our kids\u2019 emotions; because it doesn\u2019t feel like it should be that big to <em>us<\/em>, so we assume it can\u2019t be that big for <em>them<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we\u2019re afraid they\u2019re going to become whiners and dramatic; and so there we get, again, into the fear.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Marcus:<\/strong> Exactly; so the thing to do there is to <em>meet<\/em> them in how big it is for them and then help them dial it back down from there. Instead of just saying, \u201cDon\u2019t ever get that big with your emotions,\u201d we need to <em>meet<\/em> them in how big this is for them and then help them dial it back.\n\n<strong>Chris:<\/strong> That\u2019s why this is good for parents to do as a group, like you mentioned. To do these things as a group, we can see where I\u2019m weak, you\u2019re strong; where you\u2019re weak, I might be strong. So doing this with other parents really is valuable.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s interesting as I\u2014I\u2019m smiling because as I listened to you, I\u2019m like, \u201cThat takes so much maturity,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like you\u2019re being so rational. When I\u2019m in that moment, I\u2019m so <em>irrational<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\nBut you said it earlier\u2014it\u2019s like it\u2019s a moment to pause and go, \u201cOkay, take a deep breath\u201d; this isn\u2019t just for the kid; this is for mom and dad to go, \u201cTake a deep breath. What\u2019s the first habit? Oh, attune; okay,\u201d\u2014I mean, it actually can be done; right? I mean, as I hear you say that, I\u2019m like, \u201cThis can be done. This can change a home\u2019s culture, and environment, and atmosphere if a parent can learn to: \u2018Okay, I\u2019m going to start with understanding their emotion, and matching that, and then walking them <em>with me<\/em> out of it.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s a beautiful process.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was thinking, too, Dave, as you said that\u2014I think, as we take a breath, and we take a step back just to say a quick prayer, too\u2014because God\u2019s in it. He helps us to kind of regulate and to take a breath and to get perspective. And the Holy Spirit\u2014I mean, when you look at the fruit of the Spirit\u2014even love, joy, peace, patience, kindness; He\u2019s always there to help if we ask Him.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m just thinking to myself, \u201cWhat parent hasn\u2019t <em>longed<\/em> for some help to adjust the emotional thermostat in your home?\u201d I mean, there are days when the thermostat is <em>way chilly<\/em>, and you\u2019d like to warm things up a little bit; and you just don\u2019t know if it\u2019s safe to do that. I think what we\u2019ve heard today from Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey is a great first step for us, as parents, to know how we can begin to warm things up when our children have made it <em>chilly<\/em> in the house\/when their emotions are causing things to be tense in our home. How can we move toward joy?\n\nMarcus Warner and Chris Coursey have written a book called <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids<\/em>, and we want to make this book available to every <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. Those of you who are tuned in, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of the book. We\u2019re just asking if you would help with the cost of producing and syndicating this program by making a donation. Every dollar you donate to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> helps us extend the reach of this ministry\/helps us reach more people, more often, with practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and for their family. What you\u2019ve heard today has been made possible because of listeners, like you, who have given in the past.\n\nSo if you\u2019re a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, and you\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> made a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today,<\/em> or if you\u2019re a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener who has donated in the past but maybe it\u2019s been a while, make a donation today and ask for your copy of the book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-filled Kids<\/em>, when you get in touch with us. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Or get your copy of the book, <em>The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-filled Kids<\/em>, when you make a donation by calling 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey about how we can pursue a joy-filled home and raising joy-filled kids if <em>we<\/em> struggle to get to joy ourselves. With everything that\u2019s going on in our lives\u2014the stress and the pressure\u2014if joy is hard for us, how can we raise joy-filled kids? We\u2019ll hear more about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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