{"id":307411,"date":"2022-02-18T08:02:06","date_gmt":"2022-02-18T13:02:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/husbands-love-your-wives-heres-how\/"},"modified":"2022-02-18T08:02:06","modified_gmt":"2022-02-18T13:02:06","slug":"husbands-love-your-wives-heres-how","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/husbands-love-your-wives-heres-how\/","title":{"rendered":"Husbands, Love Your Wives (Here&#8217;s How)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Husbands, wondering how to really love your wives? On FamilyLife Today, hosts Dave and Ann Wilson share what women need and how to go to the next level!<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Husbands, wondering how to really love your wives?  On FamilyLife Today, hosts Dave and Ann Wilson share what women need and how to go to the next level!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-18.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:51","filesize":"24.58M","filesize_raw":"25777950","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2827,2902],"tags":[4187,2877,4022],"podcast_series":[8505],"cwp_profile":[],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307411","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-repentance","category-resolving-conflict","tag-husbands","tag-marriage","tag-wives","podcast_series-what-every-wife-longs-for","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307411\/husbands-love-your-wives-heres-how","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307411\/husbands-love-your-wives-heres-how","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"U5SW9dXL2Z\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/husbands-love-your-wives-heres-how\/\">Husbands, Love Your Wives (Here&#8217;s How)<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/husbands-love-your-wives-heres-how\/embed\/#?secret=U5SW9dXL2Z\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Husbands, Love Your Wives (Here&#8217;s How)&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"U5SW9dXL2Z\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-18.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-18.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So today is man\u2019s day on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What does that <em>mean<\/em>?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I mean it\u2019s not really a man\u2019s day\u2014it\u2019s for men, but it\u2019s really for women;\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because it\u2019s like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about how to really, really love our wives well.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it is women\u2019s day today!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is; in some sense, if men do this, women benefit\/the wife benefits.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, your whole life will benefit, men.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been told, many times, by Ann I don\u2019t do this well. So Ann is going to tell you\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s terrible! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014how to love your wife. Well, we said earlier\u2014you honestly said that\u2014I did not do a good job of loving you well\/cherishing you. We talked yesterday about cherish\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> loved. I think you\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, that means I didn\u2019t do a good job!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you tried your <em>best<\/em>, but I didn\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> loved; because I felt like a lot of other things were your priority before our relationship.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we talked yesterday about Ephesians 5 saying, \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church.\u201d And we even tried to say, \u201cLove has lost its meaning; so let\u2019s use the word, \u2018cherish,\u2019 because men know how to cherish stuff.\u201d Here is the definition again: to cherish something is to care for it deeply, to treasure it, to hold dear.\n\nYou basically were saying I held dear\/I treasured my job more than you.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And when we would have these discussions, I would tell you that; and you would get <em>so angry<\/em>. You would say to me, \u201cThat is not true! My job is <em>not<\/em> the priority. <em>You<\/em> are the priority.\u201d Then we would just go around in circles, and this was our continual battle. I would say, \u201cThis is what I am feeling\u201d; and you would say, \u201cYou\u2019re <em>wrong<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was always a good discussion. [Laughter] I mean\/I think\u2014as I think back to it\u2014and I\u2019m not saying we never have this conversation anymore; it is still a struggle in every marriage\u2014in our marriage, in current days\u2014but this was 30 years ago, and then 20 years, and then 10 years ago\u2014I mean, let me ask you, \u201cIs it <em>better<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>way<\/em> better.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, I don\u2019t know <em>exactly<\/em> what was going through my mind when I would get defensive; but I think I got defensive because I was hurt. I <em>thought<\/em> I was doing a good job; I was <em>making<\/em> an effort. I would have told my buddies, \u201cYes, Ann\u2014man, she feels loved by me\u2014because I\u2019m doing a good job of loving her\u201d; and then I come home, and you\u2019d say, \u201cYou don\u2019t love me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We were in the crazy cycle as Emerson Eggerichs calls it, because I felt like you weren\u2019t loving to me; so then I would get hurt, and I would disrespect you. When you felt disrespect, you were less loving. We were in that continual cycle, and we didn\u2019t know how to get out.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All I know is it took years for me to receive your truth, which was you didn\u2019t feel loved.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you <em>stop<\/em> getting defensive?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think God softened my heart. I mean, we go back to what we said yesterday about Ephesians 5: \u201cHusbands, love your wives,\u201d comes out of the context of this is only possible if you are filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit of God. I think the Holy Spirit does work and says, \u201cSoften your heart; listen.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember the first time I had said, \u201cMan, I feel like we are not connecting. I am feeling like other things are more important,\u201d\u2014I\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> forget the time you said, \u201cTell me more; what do you mean by that?\u201d\u2014I was <em>shocked<\/em>; because if I would have said that in the past, we would have just gone through our cycle again. But this time, just by you asking me that question, I felt incredibly loved.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and I think defensiveness in a marriage is one of the <em>worst<\/em> things that can happen. I mean, here is the thing\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We both do it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014we <em>all<\/em> have blind spots; we <em>all<\/em> have things we can\u2019t see. In some ways, God gives us a spouse as <em>eyes<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ah, it\u2019s <em>terrible<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014to see things that we can\u2019t see in ourselves. We <em>hate<\/em> it when our spouse points that out; but think about this: if one of the purposes of life is to become like Christ\u2014which is honestly true from the Bible; we are called to become like Christ\u2014but we won\u2019t be exactly like Christ until we are in glory; Tim Keller calls it in, <em>The Meaning of Marriage<\/em>, \u201cwhen we are in our glory selves.\u201d So every day, as we move toward the end of our life, is a chance to be sharpened, and molded, and shaped into being like Christ. Guess who God gives us to help us do that?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Our spouse.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Our spouse. It\u2019s sometimes <em>really<\/em> hard; but it\u2019s a <em>gift<\/em> when your spouse can look at you and speak truth\u2014and hopefully, that is said <em>gently<\/em>,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and lovingly, but truthfully\u2014\u201cThis is what is going on in our marriage.\u201d\n\nI would say to the guys: \u201cMan, yesterday, your homework was: ask your wife: \u2018Do you feel loved?\u2019 If she said, \u2018No,\u2019 I hope you didn\u2019t get defensive like I <em>always<\/em> did. That is a chance for you to go: \u2018Really? Help me understand why not,\u2019 and \u2018How do I make you feel loved?\u2019\u201d And today, we are going to tell you!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s do it! Let\u2019s get into it!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How do I make you feel loved? I mean we say it in our <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> small group and book; we said, \u201cHere are four ways to love your wife.\u201d\n<ul>\n \t<li>Give her time; we talked about that yesterday.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Taaalk\u2014with three \u201cA\u201ds in the middle\u2014because they want to have a conversation.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>We said, \u201cTouch.\u201d Many guys are like, \u201cFinally, we\u2019re going to talk about touch.\u201d Well, we\u2019re talking about <em>non<\/em>-<em>sexual<\/em> touch.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Then, finally, the last one was truth; in other words, she is <em>longing<\/em> for a spiritual partner in the marriage.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nEven in Ephesians 5 that we read yesterday\u2014it is something that I <em>never<\/em> understood in verse 26\u2014he says, \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her\u201d\u2014that is 25\u2014but 26: \u201cthat He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of the water of the Word so that He might present the church to Himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing that she may be holy and without blemish.\u201d I <em>never<\/em> really understood that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, what does that mean?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think, again, there are a lot of interpretations on that. But I think there is a part a husband is called [to] by God to help lead his wife, spiritually, to bring a spiritual dynamic to the relationship to bring her life, through Christ, that she would be holy and without blemish. She would be her best version of herself because of the man she married and that he is bringing Christ continually. I\u2019m not saying I do this perfectly.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> In a beautiful, humble serving way, that is so Christ-like, it draws us, as women, to our husbands when they live like that, as the servant-leaders.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve already said that makes you feel loved, when I do that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and secure, like, \u201cMan, my man is walking with God. I can trust him; I respect him; I want to walk <em>with<\/em> him. And I know that he is serving Jesus, and his life matches his words.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s really interesting\u2014what we\u2019re going to try to do today\u2014and I don\u2019t know if we\u2019ll have time to do it\u2014is talk about three ways that you can love your wife. Again, you have to ask her if these are true for her; but we read a book, years ago, called <em>His Needs, Her Needs<\/em>\u2014subtitle\u2014<em>Building an Affair-Proof Marriage<\/em> by Willard Harley.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I read that, I thought, \u201cOh, if I do all of these things right, it will guarantee that my spouse will never cheat\u201d; we\u2019re not saying that. You can do all things right\u2014it may not be about you\u2014but we can do our best.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And so, what he did in there was he just listed what he said, as a counselor after 3,000 couples: \u201cTop five needs of a woman,\u201d \u201cTop five needs of a man.\u201d There is a chapter on each one. Long story short, before I had even read the book\u2014and we said this in <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>\u2014but before I had even read the book, I was like looking at: \u201cWhat does he say are the top five for a man?\u201d The first one was\u2014he didn\u2019t say respect\u2014he said sex; you know, intimacy for a man\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cI like this guy; I can relate to this guy.\u201d\n\nBut then I looked at the top five for women, and sex <em>wasn\u2019t even mentioned<\/em>. You remember; I brought the book to you\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Physical intimacy wasn\u2019t even the top five\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014for a woman.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was like, \u201cHow can it not be in the top five?\u201d; I show it to you. Again, we hadn\u2019t read it yet. You looked at it\u2014just the chapter title\u2014you said, \u201cOh, the first three are intimacy to a woman.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat in the world is that?!\u201d\n\nOkay, guys, write these down; or log them away in your mind; and then go to your wife and say, \u201cIs this true for you?\u201d Here is what Harley said the top three are\u2014and we\u2019re going to talk about this\u2014he said: \u201cNumber one, affection; number two, conversation; number three, honesty and openness.\u201d\n\nLet me tell you\u2014you don\u2019t need to know what four and five are\u2014because if you get the first three right, it doesn\u2019t matter what four and five are. As I <em>read<\/em> that, I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, help me,\u201d\u2014and Ann, you get to do this for the guys today\u2014\u201cHelp us understand what affection is if that is the number one.\u201d And by the way, do you think that is number one?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it is different for every woman. And I think\u2014I\u2019m sorry guys\u2014it\u2019s also different in every phase of our lives. In some ways, it can feel different; like my needs when I have little kids might be different than now as an empty-nester.\n\nBut the number one is affection, and I would say that is true for me. The way I would word this is: \u201cKeep pursuing us.\u201d That pursuit makes us feel like: \u201cOh, we still matter. We\u2019re still important.\u201d When you put affection with that, it just means you are pursuing us in a loving way.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And affection is\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is going out of your way to show her that you love her by calling her, texting her, holding her hand, opening the door if she likes that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re saying affection is bigger than touch. Because when I hear \u201caffection,\u201d I think, \u201cTouch her, hold her hand, kiss her, put your arm around her.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> To me, it is all about pursuit and like noticing. If you sit across from me at a table, and you look me in the eyes; and you\u2019ll just be like, \u201cHey, how are you doing?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness! This man loves me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You are acting like I never do that. [Laughter] The way you said that is like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d\u2014like it\u2019s once in a <em>year<\/em> or month.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m just saying that that affection to a woman\u2014and I would say that it is non-sexual touch\u2014and I think when I told you that, you were very confused by the word, like, \u201cWhat does that even mean?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it is good for a man to understand\u2014and even for me to understand\u2014affection is bigger than non-sexual touch, or just affection isn\u2019t just physical touch.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve said to me, many times, when we are on a date, or we\u2019re even in the kitchen\u2014anywhere\u2014\u201cJust put the phone away.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cPursue me; look at me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cTake it off your knee,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t look at the phone; turn it off,\u201d\u2014I would never have said that is affection.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It feels like you are continually pursuing, and that affection is just a part of it. I remember being married for a few years, thinking, \u201cWow; we hardly ever hold hands anymore. We hardly ever kiss affectionately anymore unless we\u2019re in the bedroom for a purpose.\u201d I remember thinking, \u201cI really, really miss that,\u201d because it\u2019s wooing you; you know, it\u2019s wooing me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know what the percentage would be; but I would <em>guess<\/em> a good percentage of marriages don\u2019t have a lot of affection anymore.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is understandable why we don\u2019t. We\u2019re busy; we have kids; we have stressful jobs; we\u2019re struggling with our parents, who are aging. There are so many dynamics going on that are pulling us away from one another, so we have to purposely pursue one another <em>and<\/em> God.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would just say, \u201cGuys, if this is your marriage,\u201d\u2014which it was <em>my<\/em> marriage\u2014\u201cit is on us to love our wives as Christ loves the church,\u201d which means I am going to put aside my needs, and even my wants and desires, and say, \u201cWhat would it look like for her to feel loved by me?\u201d If it means hugging her, holding her hand\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am just thinking, like, \u201cGuys, if you put into your phone\u201d\u2014like put it as a reminder\u2014\u201c\u2019Come in the door; hug my wife; say, \u201cThanks for all you\u2019re doing for me,\u201d\u2019\u201d\u2014I mean, that gets into the next one\u2014\u201cBut just to hug her, to look at her and say, \u2018I appreciate you so much. Thanks for all you do for us.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know\u2014and some of\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She melts on the floor, guys\u2014I\u2019m just telling you\u2014\u201cOh, thank you!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here is what I want to ask, though. When you have little kids crawling around the kitchen, and grabbing your legs,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and it\u2019s <em>chaos<\/em>\u2014I mean, we were over at our son\u2019s house; there are toys everywhere. There is not an inch you can walk through the living room, and we\u2019ve been there\u2014you know?\u2014when we had little kids. It\u2019s <em>hard<\/em> to be affectionate\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in that world.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I was <em>bad<\/em>, where I\u2019m like, \u201cDon\u2019t hug me; let\u2019s just get some stuff done with the kids.\u201d That was bad on my part, too; because for our kids to see, just for a time a night, for us to hug each other and say: \u201cMan, you really matter,\u201d \u201cOur marriage matters,\u201d \u201cKids, this matters; this is important. Your mom is really important, and she is <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d That would do amazing things for your kids as well.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re saying you could do it, even in the midst of all the chaos.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>Yes<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cHit the pause button and stop for a minute.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I think we have to be really purposeful. Put it in your phone: \u201cDon\u2019t forget. Hug my wife tonight, and tell her she is amazing at some point.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>and<\/em> go out on a date night.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright. Second one\u2014first one was affection\u2014the second one is conversation. How does that make a woman feel loved and cherished?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m different from a lot of women. I feel like you are more detailed, and you will tell me all about your day; you\u2019ll tell me conversations. <em>But<\/em> I want to know, \u201cHow are <em>we<\/em> doing? What\u2019s happening in our relationship?\u201d As soon as I say that, like, \u201cHow do you think we\u2019re doing?\u201d you have no words left. You might say, \u201cI don\u2019t know\u201d; or I can just tell you look a deer in the headlights, because you don\u2019t want to talk about it. Why is that?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, it goes back to I\u2019m going to get defensive; because I\u2019m going to guess you\u2019re not thinking we\u2019re doing as good as <em>I<\/em> think we\u2019re doing. In some ways, we aren\u2019t doing as good as I think we\u2019re doing; because I want to live in a pretend world. I just don\u2019t want to deal with the truth.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But that is a good point for us, as women. I was bad at this\u2014I would only talk about how we\u2019re doing when we weren\u2019t doing well\u2014so I should have said, \u201cMan, I think we\u2019re doing great.\u201d That would have really bolstered you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You do it now. You say it a lot now, like, \u201cWe\u2019re doing well. You\u2019re doing a great job; I feel loved.\u201d That affirming a man brings <em>life<\/em> to a man, and we do <em>better<\/em>. If we think we\u2019re doing good, we\u2019re going to do even better. If we think we\u2019re going to do bad, we tend\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You avoid the conversation.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014to get mad and angry; or we withdraw away, and we pull away and do <em>less<\/em>.\n\nI had to learn\u2014I mean, affection is a <em>biggie<\/em>\u2014but conversation goes with the third one, which is honesty and openness. It\u2019s like you\u2019re saying: \u201cWhen we do talk, let\u2019s get real a little bit.\u201d I want\u2014and here\u2019s what I think Harley was getting into\u2014is a wife feels loved when her husband is honest and open <em>only<\/em> with her\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s important.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which means I\u2019m sharing my struggles\/my fears. I\u2019m just being\u2014at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we call it Level 5 Communication, where it\u2019s not superficial, Level 1\u2014Level 5 is I\u2019m sharing my heart with you, and no other woman gets that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s off limits\/off bounds for another woman to get my heart.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I feel like it\u2019s really easy, especially with young kids and busy jobs, that you don\u2019t go to this Level 5 Communication, where you are sharing your fears\/your insecurities.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, why does that make a wife feel loved?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because feel connected to you. It feels like you trust us that you\u2019re being vulnerable. When someone is vulnerable, that\u2019s like the most precious\u2014it\u2019s intimacy\u2014it\u2019s true intimacy. It\u2019s like a spiritual intimacy to me, even.\n\nI remember when we were probably married\u2014I don\u2019t know\u201415 years; and you were doing all these big Pro-Challenge, we called it, with the athletes. You\u2019d take Detroit Lions to schools. You do assemblies in these high schools; and then you would share a great message about Jesus, if you could, in the school\u2014public schools\u2014or about drug abuse. I remember this one time you came home from those\u2014and you were usually really pumped up; but I could tell there was something off. And as most women can tell\u2014we can tell when our guys are just a little off\u2014so I kept saying, \u201cWhat happened today? Did something happen? You don\u2019t seem like yourself.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it was that day where I had to be one of the athletes; because one of the players couldn\u2019t go. I had to put on this Pro-Challenge tank top. I\u2019m standing beside Chris Spielman, who was a linebacker; and you know, Chris Spielman in a tank top is a sight to be seen. He has muscles, and he is a weight room guy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I mean, you were young; you looked great too.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Me in a tank top next to Chris Spielman was not that big a deal. I mean, it was pretty embarrassing. I\u2019m standing there; and one of these teachers, who doesn\u2019t think I can hear them\u2014I mean, there is a gymnasium full of 1,500 kids, and all these teachers are standing beside us\u2014we were under the basketball hoop, because they are going to introduce us to run out to center court. I hear this teacher, maybe ten feet away, turn to another teacher and say, \u201cHey, who is that <em>little<\/em> guy down there?\u201d They knew all the players; they didn\u2019t know why I was standing there.\n\nOf course, Spielman hears it and goes, \u201cHey, dude, did you hear that? They think you are a <em>little<\/em> guy.\u201d I just acted like I didn\u2019t hear it. Then I hear the other teacher go, \u201cOh, he must be a kicker or something.\u201d Spielman just <em>laughed<\/em>; you know.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why did he laugh?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He knew I used to be a quarterback, and it probably was a blow to my ego. It was\u2014again, nothing against kickers; they are awesome; they are incredible; some of my best friends are kickers with the Lions\u2014but to think that I went from being a quarterback, who was All-Conference, to now I\u2019m a kicker-type body\u2014so when I came home that night, it was one of those moments\u2014again, it wasn\u2019t like the end of the world\u2014but it was just like, \u201cWow; that is who I am now. I\u2019m just this little, scrawny, skinny guy, who has no muscles when people look at me.\u201d\n\nSo when you said, \u201cHow did the day go?\u201d\u00a0 I was like, \u201cOh, it was great.\u201d You kept probing\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, yes, your demeanor was downcast.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; tell them what happened; because I told you, \u201cWell, you know, this teacher said this; and it sort of it hit me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you were telling me <em>all<\/em> of it; and you were <em>super<\/em> vulnerable.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was honest and open.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you basically said, \u201cI\u2019m not that guy anymore. I feel like, \u2018Who am I?\u2019 I don\u2019t even have anything to offer. These guys are amazing, and I\u2019m just this <em>old<\/em> chaplain.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you said?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I said, \u201cDave Wilson; you look at me.\u201d I remember I was strong; and I said, \u201cLet me tell you who you are: you are a man of God.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to stop you, because I remember better than you.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really?!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember the first thing you said was: \u201cYou\u2019ve got a great body!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did, because I <em>really<\/em> believe that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think sometimes you can lie in your marriage, but I remember you saying that first thing.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did I?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I smiled; and then you said, \u201cDon\u2019t you forget the most important thing about a man is who he is, not how he looks.\u201d You said, \u201cYou are a man of God, who loves Jesus, who loves me, who is leading our boys to Christ. That\u2019s what matters, and you are a good, good man.\u201d\n\nAll I remember is sitting there, thinking, \u201cWow; I thought I was sort of giving <em>you<\/em> a gift because\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it was.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI was being honest and open, and sharing sort of a weakness, or a fear I had, or an insecurity; and I got the gift.\u201d I remember that night better than you, probably, because, like, \u201cWow; you spoke life into me.\u201d You loved <em>me<\/em>, and <em>you<\/em> <em>felt<\/em> loved.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you gave me an <em>incredible<\/em> gift by being vulnerable, by saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I have what it takes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> For [the] women listeners, when our men are vulnerable\u2014and when they can share a weakness or what they <em>really<\/em> feel\u2014it\u2019s like we\u2019ve been handed this precious gift. We need to be careful how we handle it\u2014we don\u2019t squash it; we don\u2019t make fun of it; we don\u2019t ridicule it; we don\u2019t agree with the lies that they are believing\u2014but we speak the truth. As you said earlier from Ephesians, when we are filled with God\u2019s Spirit, we would say the things that Jesus would say back to our men. He would speak life to them, and we have the opportunity to do that to each other.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so here is what I would say to the guys: \u201cGuys, you have a chance to love your wife as Christ loved the church. In fact, He has <em>commanded<\/em> us to do that. <em>Now<\/em>, you know what it looks like. Again, you have to ask your wife, \u2018Does it look like affection, conversation, honesty and openness?\u2014or does it look a little bit different? How is it nuanced?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cDoes it look like getting the vacuum cleaner out and help me clean the house?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that could be it too.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say, Dave: \u201cMaybe, it would be great to listen to this podcast together.\u201d Send it\u2014if you\u2019re a wife, and you don\u2019t want to do this in a nagging way or a manipulative way\u2014but say, \u201cHey, I listened to this today, and I\u2019d love to talk about it\u2014not saying that you are in trouble\u201d\u2014I want to say that\u2014\u201cbut I think that this would be a great conversation.\u201d Go out and be careful with how you word this.\n\nI would say that same thing to the men: \u201cI think it would be <em>great<\/em> to have this conversation.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com if you would like to send this program to a husband or a wife so that you can begin the process that Ann Wilson was just talking about. You can prime the pump for a healthy conversation about how both of you can do a better job of loving one another. You know, this does go both ways. In fact, in their book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, Dave and Ann Wilson talk about, not just what a wife longs for, but what a husband longs for in marriage.\n\nIn fact, I was thinking about couples reading through the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, together. What a <em>great<\/em> assignment; what a way to strengthen your marriage. We\u2019re making the book available to you this week if you can help with a donation to help advance the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Every dollar you donate to this ministry helps us reach more people, more often, with practical biblical help and hope for marriages\/for families. We invest the money you send in the production and syndication costs for this program, getting it out in as many platforms\/as many ways as possible.\n\nWe would love to say, \u201cThank you for your donation today,\u201d by sending you the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. If you already have the book, make a donation and pass a new copy on\u2014to one of your kids, or to a neighbor; maybe, to somebody at church\u2014somebody you know who would benefit from reading this book. Donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY; and we do look forward to hearing from you.\n\nNow, you\u2019ve heard me mentioning the small group resources that we have available, here, at FamilyLife and the fact that we have a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners going on. Today is the last day that special offer is going to be available to you. If you\u2019ve been looking for <em>great<\/em> resources for your small group on marriage or parenting\u2014you\u2019d like to save 25 percent off\u2014you can use the promo code, \u201cNEWYEAR2022,\u201d and take advantage of the savings; but again, today is the <em>last<\/em> day that that code is going to be available. Check it out; go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.\n\nWe hope you have a <em>great<\/em> weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend, and we hope you can join us on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about what it is parents are doing to raise joy-filled kids. Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey will be here. I hope you can be back for that as well.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\n1"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:51"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.58M"],"filesize_raw":["25777950"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307411.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307411.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776535419;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Husbands, wondering how to really love your wives? On FamilyLife Today, hosts Dave and Ann Wilson share what women need and how to go to the next level!","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So today is man\u2019s day on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What does that <em>mean<\/em>?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I mean it\u2019s not really a man\u2019s day\u2014it\u2019s for men, but it\u2019s really for women;\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because it\u2019s like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about how to really, really love our wives well.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it is women\u2019s day today!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is; in some sense, if men do this, women benefit\/the wife benefits.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, your whole life will benefit, men.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been told, many times, by Ann I don\u2019t do this well. So Ann is going to tell you\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s terrible! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014how to love your wife. Well, we said earlier\u2014you honestly said that\u2014I did not do a good job of loving you well\/cherishing you. We talked yesterday about cherish\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> loved. I think you\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, that means I didn\u2019t do a good job!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you tried your <em>best<\/em>, but I didn\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> loved; because I felt like a lot of other things were your priority before our relationship.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we talked yesterday about Ephesians 5 saying, \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church.\u201d And we even tried to say, \u201cLove has lost its meaning; so let\u2019s use the word, \u2018cherish,\u2019 because men know how to cherish stuff.\u201d Here is the definition again: to cherish something is to care for it deeply, to treasure it, to hold dear.\n\nYou basically were saying I held dear\/I treasured my job more than you.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And when we would have these discussions, I would tell you that; and you would get <em>so angry<\/em>. You would say to me, \u201cThat is not true! My job is <em>not<\/em> the priority. <em>You<\/em> are the priority.\u201d Then we would just go around in circles, and this was our continual battle. I would say, \u201cThis is what I am feeling\u201d; and you would say, \u201cYou\u2019re <em>wrong<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was always a good discussion. [Laughter] I mean\/I think\u2014as I think back to it\u2014and I\u2019m not saying we never have this conversation anymore; it is still a struggle in every marriage\u2014in our marriage, in current days\u2014but this was 30 years ago, and then 20 years, and then 10 years ago\u2014I mean, let me ask you, \u201cIs it <em>better<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>way<\/em> better.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, I don\u2019t know <em>exactly<\/em> what was going through my mind when I would get defensive; but I think I got defensive because I was hurt. I <em>thought<\/em> I was doing a good job; I was <em>making<\/em> an effort. I would have told my buddies, \u201cYes, Ann\u2014man, she feels loved by me\u2014because I\u2019m doing a good job of loving her\u201d; and then I come home, and you\u2019d say, \u201cYou don\u2019t love me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We were in the crazy cycle as Emerson Eggerichs calls it, because I felt like you weren\u2019t loving to me; so then I would get hurt, and I would disrespect you. When you felt disrespect, you were less loving. We were in that continual cycle, and we didn\u2019t know how to get out.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All I know is it took years for me to receive your truth, which was you didn\u2019t feel loved.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you <em>stop<\/em> getting defensive?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think God softened my heart. I mean, we go back to what we said yesterday about Ephesians 5: \u201cHusbands, love your wives,\u201d comes out of the context of this is only possible if you are filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit of God. I think the Holy Spirit does work and says, \u201cSoften your heart; listen.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember the first time I had said, \u201cMan, I feel like we are not connecting. I am feeling like other things are more important,\u201d\u2014I\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> forget the time you said, \u201cTell me more; what do you mean by that?\u201d\u2014I was <em>shocked<\/em>; because if I would have said that in the past, we would have just gone through our cycle again. But this time, just by you asking me that question, I felt incredibly loved.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and I think defensiveness in a marriage is one of the <em>worst<\/em> things that can happen. I mean, here is the thing\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We both do it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014we <em>all<\/em> have blind spots; we <em>all<\/em> have things we can\u2019t see. In some ways, God gives us a spouse as <em>eyes<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ah, it\u2019s <em>terrible<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014to see things that we can\u2019t see in ourselves. We <em>hate<\/em> it when our spouse points that out; but think about this: if one of the purposes of life is to become like Christ\u2014which is honestly true from the Bible; we are called to become like Christ\u2014but we won\u2019t be exactly like Christ until we are in glory; Tim Keller calls it in, <em>The Meaning of Marriage<\/em>, \u201cwhen we are in our glory selves.\u201d So every day, as we move toward the end of our life, is a chance to be sharpened, and molded, and shaped into being like Christ. Guess who God gives us to help us do that?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Our spouse.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Our spouse. It\u2019s sometimes <em>really<\/em> hard; but it\u2019s a <em>gift<\/em> when your spouse can look at you and speak truth\u2014and hopefully, that is said <em>gently<\/em>,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and lovingly, but truthfully\u2014\u201cThis is what is going on in our marriage.\u201d\n\nI would say to the guys: \u201cMan, yesterday, your homework was: ask your wife: \u2018Do you feel loved?\u2019 If she said, \u2018No,\u2019 I hope you didn\u2019t get defensive like I <em>always<\/em> did. That is a chance for you to go: \u2018Really? Help me understand why not,\u2019 and \u2018How do I make you feel loved?\u2019\u201d And today, we are going to tell you!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s do it! Let\u2019s get into it!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How do I make you feel loved? I mean we say it in our <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> small group and book; we said, \u201cHere are four ways to love your wife.\u201d\n<ul>\n \t<li>Give her time; we talked about that yesterday.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Taaalk\u2014with three \u201cA\u201ds in the middle\u2014because they want to have a conversation.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>We said, \u201cTouch.\u201d Many guys are like, \u201cFinally, we\u2019re going to talk about touch.\u201d Well, we\u2019re talking about <em>non<\/em>-<em>sexual<\/em> touch.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n \t<li>Then, finally, the last one was truth; in other words, she is <em>longing<\/em> for a spiritual partner in the marriage.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\nEven in Ephesians 5 that we read yesterday\u2014it is something that I <em>never<\/em> understood in verse 26\u2014he says, \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her\u201d\u2014that is 25\u2014but 26: \u201cthat He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of the water of the Word so that He might present the church to Himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing that she may be holy and without blemish.\u201d I <em>never<\/em> really understood that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, what does that mean?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think, again, there are a lot of interpretations on that. But I think there is a part a husband is called [to] by God to help lead his wife, spiritually, to bring a spiritual dynamic to the relationship to bring her life, through Christ, that she would be holy and without blemish. She would be her best version of herself because of the man she married and that he is bringing Christ continually. I\u2019m not saying I do this perfectly.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> In a beautiful, humble serving way, that is so Christ-like, it draws us, as women, to our husbands when they live like that, as the servant-leaders.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve already said that makes you feel loved, when I do that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and secure, like, \u201cMan, my man is walking with God. I can trust him; I respect him; I want to walk <em>with<\/em> him. And I know that he is serving Jesus, and his life matches his words.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s really interesting\u2014what we\u2019re going to try to do today\u2014and I don\u2019t know if we\u2019ll have time to do it\u2014is talk about three ways that you can love your wife. Again, you have to ask her if these are true for her; but we read a book, years ago, called <em>His Needs, Her Needs<\/em>\u2014subtitle\u2014<em>Building an Affair-Proof Marriage<\/em> by Willard Harley.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I read that, I thought, \u201cOh, if I do all of these things right, it will guarantee that my spouse will never cheat\u201d; we\u2019re not saying that. You can do all things right\u2014it may not be about you\u2014but we can do our best.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And so, what he did in there was he just listed what he said, as a counselor after 3,000 couples: \u201cTop five needs of a woman,\u201d \u201cTop five needs of a man.\u201d There is a chapter on each one. Long story short, before I had even read the book\u2014and we said this in <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>\u2014but before I had even read the book, I was like looking at: \u201cWhat does he say are the top five for a man?\u201d The first one was\u2014he didn\u2019t say respect\u2014he said sex; you know, intimacy for a man\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cI like this guy; I can relate to this guy.\u201d\n\nBut then I looked at the top five for women, and sex <em>wasn\u2019t even mentioned<\/em>. You remember; I brought the book to you\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Physical intimacy wasn\u2019t even the top five\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014for a woman.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was like, \u201cHow can it not be in the top five?\u201d; I show it to you. Again, we hadn\u2019t read it yet. You looked at it\u2014just the chapter title\u2014you said, \u201cOh, the first three are intimacy to a woman.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat in the world is that?!\u201d\n\nOkay, guys, write these down; or log them away in your mind; and then go to your wife and say, \u201cIs this true for you?\u201d Here is what Harley said the top three are\u2014and we\u2019re going to talk about this\u2014he said: \u201cNumber one, affection; number two, conversation; number three, honesty and openness.\u201d\n\nLet me tell you\u2014you don\u2019t need to know what four and five are\u2014because if you get the first three right, it doesn\u2019t matter what four and five are. As I <em>read<\/em> that, I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, help me,\u201d\u2014and Ann, you get to do this for the guys today\u2014\u201cHelp us understand what affection is if that is the number one.\u201d And by the way, do you think that is number one?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it is different for every woman. And I think\u2014I\u2019m sorry guys\u2014it\u2019s also different in every phase of our lives. In some ways, it can feel different; like my needs when I have little kids might be different than now as an empty-nester.\n\nBut the number one is affection, and I would say that is true for me. The way I would word this is: \u201cKeep pursuing us.\u201d That pursuit makes us feel like: \u201cOh, we still matter. We\u2019re still important.\u201d When you put affection with that, it just means you are pursuing us in a loving way.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And affection is\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is going out of your way to show her that you love her by calling her, texting her, holding her hand, opening the door if she likes that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re saying affection is bigger than touch. Because when I hear \u201caffection,\u201d I think, \u201cTouch her, hold her hand, kiss her, put your arm around her.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> To me, it is all about pursuit and like noticing. If you sit across from me at a table, and you look me in the eyes; and you\u2019ll just be like, \u201cHey, how are you doing?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness! This man loves me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You are acting like I never do that. [Laughter] The way you said that is like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d\u2014like it\u2019s once in a <em>year<\/em> or month.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m just saying that that affection to a woman\u2014and I would say that it is non-sexual touch\u2014and I think when I told you that, you were very confused by the word, like, \u201cWhat does that even mean?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it is good for a man to understand\u2014and even for me to understand\u2014affection is bigger than non-sexual touch, or just affection isn\u2019t just physical touch.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve said to me, many times, when we are on a date, or we\u2019re even in the kitchen\u2014anywhere\u2014\u201cJust put the phone away.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cPursue me; look at me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cTake it off your knee,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t look at the phone; turn it off,\u201d\u2014I would never have said that is affection.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It feels like you are continually pursuing, and that affection is just a part of it. I remember being married for a few years, thinking, \u201cWow; we hardly ever hold hands anymore. We hardly ever kiss affectionately anymore unless we\u2019re in the bedroom for a purpose.\u201d I remember thinking, \u201cI really, really miss that,\u201d because it\u2019s wooing you; you know, it\u2019s wooing me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know what the percentage would be; but I would <em>guess<\/em> a good percentage of marriages don\u2019t have a lot of affection anymore.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is understandable why we don\u2019t. We\u2019re busy; we have kids; we have stressful jobs; we\u2019re struggling with our parents, who are aging. There are so many dynamics going on that are pulling us away from one another, so we have to purposely pursue one another <em>and<\/em> God.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would just say, \u201cGuys, if this is your marriage,\u201d\u2014which it was <em>my<\/em> marriage\u2014\u201cit is on us to love our wives as Christ loves the church,\u201d which means I am going to put aside my needs, and even my wants and desires, and say, \u201cWhat would it look like for her to feel loved by me?\u201d If it means hugging her, holding her hand\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am just thinking, like, \u201cGuys, if you put into your phone\u201d\u2014like put it as a reminder\u2014\u201c\u2019Come in the door; hug my wife; say, \u201cThanks for all you\u2019re doing for me,\u201d\u2019\u201d\u2014I mean, that gets into the next one\u2014\u201cBut just to hug her, to look at her and say, \u2018I appreciate you so much. Thanks for all you do for us.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know\u2014and some of\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She melts on the floor, guys\u2014I\u2019m just telling you\u2014\u201cOh, thank you!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here is what I want to ask, though. When you have little kids crawling around the kitchen, and grabbing your legs,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and it\u2019s <em>chaos<\/em>\u2014I mean, we were over at our son\u2019s house; there are toys everywhere. There is not an inch you can walk through the living room, and we\u2019ve been there\u2014you know?\u2014when we had little kids. It\u2019s <em>hard<\/em> to be affectionate\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in that world.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I was <em>bad<\/em>, where I\u2019m like, \u201cDon\u2019t hug me; let\u2019s just get some stuff done with the kids.\u201d That was bad on my part, too; because for our kids to see, just for a time a night, for us to hug each other and say: \u201cMan, you really matter,\u201d \u201cOur marriage matters,\u201d \u201cKids, this matters; this is important. Your mom is really important, and she is <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d That would do amazing things for your kids as well.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re saying you could do it, even in the midst of all the chaos.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>Yes<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cHit the pause button and stop for a minute.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I think we have to be really purposeful. Put it in your phone: \u201cDon\u2019t forget. Hug my wife tonight, and tell her she is amazing at some point.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>and<\/em> go out on a date night.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright. Second one\u2014first one was affection\u2014the second one is conversation. How does that make a woman feel loved and cherished?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m different from a lot of women. I feel like you are more detailed, and you will tell me all about your day; you\u2019ll tell me conversations. <em>But<\/em> I want to know, \u201cHow are <em>we<\/em> doing? What\u2019s happening in our relationship?\u201d As soon as I say that, like, \u201cHow do you think we\u2019re doing?\u201d you have no words left. You might say, \u201cI don\u2019t know\u201d; or I can just tell you look a deer in the headlights, because you don\u2019t want to talk about it. Why is that?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, it goes back to I\u2019m going to get defensive; because I\u2019m going to guess you\u2019re not thinking we\u2019re doing as good as <em>I<\/em> think we\u2019re doing. In some ways, we aren\u2019t doing as good as I think we\u2019re doing; because I want to live in a pretend world. I just don\u2019t want to deal with the truth.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But that is a good point for us, as women. I was bad at this\u2014I would only talk about how we\u2019re doing when we weren\u2019t doing well\u2014so I should have said, \u201cMan, I think we\u2019re doing great.\u201d That would have really bolstered you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You do it now. You say it a lot now, like, \u201cWe\u2019re doing well. You\u2019re doing a great job; I feel loved.\u201d That affirming a man brings <em>life<\/em> to a man, and we do <em>better<\/em>. If we think we\u2019re doing good, we\u2019re going to do even better. If we think we\u2019re going to do bad, we tend\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You avoid the conversation.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014to get mad and angry; or we withdraw away, and we pull away and do <em>less<\/em>.\n\nI had to learn\u2014I mean, affection is a <em>biggie<\/em>\u2014but conversation goes with the third one, which is honesty and openness. It\u2019s like you\u2019re saying: \u201cWhen we do talk, let\u2019s get real a little bit.\u201d I want\u2014and here\u2019s what I think Harley was getting into\u2014is a wife feels loved when her husband is honest and open <em>only<\/em> with her\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s important.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which means I\u2019m sharing my struggles\/my fears. I\u2019m just being\u2014at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we call it Level 5 Communication, where it\u2019s not superficial, Level 1\u2014Level 5 is I\u2019m sharing my heart with you, and no other woman gets that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s off limits\/off bounds for another woman to get my heart.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I feel like it\u2019s really easy, especially with young kids and busy jobs, that you don\u2019t go to this Level 5 Communication, where you are sharing your fears\/your insecurities.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, why does that make a wife feel loved?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because feel connected to you. It feels like you trust us that you\u2019re being vulnerable. When someone is vulnerable, that\u2019s like the most precious\u2014it\u2019s intimacy\u2014it\u2019s true intimacy. It\u2019s like a spiritual intimacy to me, even.\n\nI remember when we were probably married\u2014I don\u2019t know\u201415 years; and you were doing all these big Pro-Challenge, we called it, with the athletes. You\u2019d take Detroit Lions to schools. You do assemblies in these high schools; and then you would share a great message about Jesus, if you could, in the school\u2014public schools\u2014or about drug abuse. I remember this one time you came home from those\u2014and you were usually really pumped up; but I could tell there was something off. And as most women can tell\u2014we can tell when our guys are just a little off\u2014so I kept saying, \u201cWhat happened today? Did something happen? You don\u2019t seem like yourself.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it was that day where I had to be one of the athletes; because one of the players couldn\u2019t go. I had to put on this Pro-Challenge tank top. I\u2019m standing beside Chris Spielman, who was a linebacker; and you know, Chris Spielman in a tank top is a sight to be seen. He has muscles, and he is a weight room guy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I mean, you were young; you looked great too.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Me in a tank top next to Chris Spielman was not that big a deal. I mean, it was pretty embarrassing. I\u2019m standing there; and one of these teachers, who doesn\u2019t think I can hear them\u2014I mean, there is a gymnasium full of 1,500 kids, and all these teachers are standing beside us\u2014we were under the basketball hoop, because they are going to introduce us to run out to center court. I hear this teacher, maybe ten feet away, turn to another teacher and say, \u201cHey, who is that <em>little<\/em> guy down there?\u201d They knew all the players; they didn\u2019t know why I was standing there.\n\nOf course, Spielman hears it and goes, \u201cHey, dude, did you hear that? They think you are a <em>little<\/em> guy.\u201d I just acted like I didn\u2019t hear it. Then I hear the other teacher go, \u201cOh, he must be a kicker or something.\u201d Spielman just <em>laughed<\/em>; you know.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why did he laugh?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He knew I used to be a quarterback, and it probably was a blow to my ego. It was\u2014again, nothing against kickers; they are awesome; they are incredible; some of my best friends are kickers with the Lions\u2014but to think that I went from being a quarterback, who was All-Conference, to now I\u2019m a kicker-type body\u2014so when I came home that night, it was one of those moments\u2014again, it wasn\u2019t like the end of the world\u2014but it was just like, \u201cWow; that is who I am now. I\u2019m just this little, scrawny, skinny guy, who has no muscles when people look at me.\u201d\n\nSo when you said, \u201cHow did the day go?\u201d\u00a0 I was like, \u201cOh, it was great.\u201d You kept probing\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, yes, your demeanor was downcast.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; tell them what happened; because I told you, \u201cWell, you know, this teacher said this; and it sort of it hit me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you were telling me <em>all<\/em> of it; and you were <em>super<\/em> vulnerable.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was honest and open.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you basically said, \u201cI\u2019m not that guy anymore. I feel like, \u2018Who am I?\u2019 I don\u2019t even have anything to offer. These guys are amazing, and I\u2019m just this <em>old<\/em> chaplain.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you said?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I said, \u201cDave Wilson; you look at me.\u201d I remember I was strong; and I said, \u201cLet me tell you who you are: you are a man of God.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to stop you, because I remember better than you.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really?!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember the first thing you said was: \u201cYou\u2019ve got a great body!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did, because I <em>really<\/em> believe that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think sometimes you can lie in your marriage, but I remember you saying that first thing.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did I?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I smiled; and then you said, \u201cDon\u2019t you forget the most important thing about a man is who he is, not how he looks.\u201d You said, \u201cYou are a man of God, who loves Jesus, who loves me, who is leading our boys to Christ. That\u2019s what matters, and you are a good, good man.\u201d\n\nAll I remember is sitting there, thinking, \u201cWow; I thought I was sort of giving <em>you<\/em> a gift because\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it was.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI was being honest and open, and sharing sort of a weakness, or a fear I had, or an insecurity; and I got the gift.\u201d I remember that night better than you, probably, because, like, \u201cWow; you spoke life into me.\u201d You loved <em>me<\/em>, and <em>you<\/em> <em>felt<\/em> loved.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you gave me an <em>incredible<\/em> gift by being vulnerable, by saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I have what it takes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> For [the] women listeners, when our men are vulnerable\u2014and when they can share a weakness or what they <em>really<\/em> feel\u2014it\u2019s like we\u2019ve been handed this precious gift. We need to be careful how we handle it\u2014we don\u2019t squash it; we don\u2019t make fun of it; we don\u2019t ridicule it; we don\u2019t agree with the lies that they are believing\u2014but we speak the truth. As you said earlier from Ephesians, when we are filled with God\u2019s Spirit, we would say the things that Jesus would say back to our men. He would speak life to them, and we have the opportunity to do that to each other.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so here is what I would say to the guys: \u201cGuys, you have a chance to love your wife as Christ loved the church. In fact, He has <em>commanded<\/em> us to do that. <em>Now<\/em>, you know what it looks like. Again, you have to ask your wife, \u2018Does it look like affection, conversation, honesty and openness?\u2014or does it look a little bit different? How is it nuanced?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cDoes it look like getting the vacuum cleaner out and help me clean the house?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that could be it too.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say, Dave: \u201cMaybe, it would be great to listen to this podcast together.\u201d Send it\u2014if you\u2019re a wife, and you don\u2019t want to do this in a nagging way or a manipulative way\u2014but say, \u201cHey, I listened to this today, and I\u2019d love to talk about it\u2014not saying that you are in trouble\u201d\u2014I want to say that\u2014\u201cbut I think that this would be a great conversation.\u201d Go out and be careful with how you word this.\n\nI would say that same thing to the men: \u201cI think it would be <em>great<\/em> to have this conversation.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com if you would like to send this program to a husband or a wife so that you can begin the process that Ann Wilson was just talking about. You can prime the pump for a healthy conversation about how both of you can do a better job of loving one another. You know, this does go both ways. In fact, in their book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, Dave and Ann Wilson talk about, not just what a wife longs for, but what a husband longs for in marriage.\n\nIn fact, I was thinking about couples reading through the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, together. What a <em>great<\/em> assignment; what a way to strengthen your marriage. We\u2019re making the book available to you this week if you can help with a donation to help advance the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Every dollar you donate to this ministry helps us reach more people, more often, with practical biblical help and hope for marriages\/for families. We invest the money you send in the production and syndication costs for this program, getting it out in as many platforms\/as many ways as possible.\n\nWe would love to say, \u201cThank you for your donation today,\u201d by sending you the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. If you already have the book, make a donation and pass a new copy on\u2014to one of your kids, or to a neighbor; maybe, to somebody at church\u2014somebody you know who would benefit from reading this book. Donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY; and we do look forward to hearing from you.\n\nNow, you\u2019ve heard me mentioning the small group resources that we have available, here, at FamilyLife and the fact that we have a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners going on. Today is the last day that special offer is going to be available to you. If you\u2019ve been looking for <em>great<\/em> resources for your small group on marriage or parenting\u2014you\u2019d like to save 25 percent off\u2014you can use the promo code, \u201cNEWYEAR2022,\u201d and take advantage of the savings; but again, today is the <em>last<\/em> day that that code is going to be available. Check it out; go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.\n\nWe hope you have a <em>great<\/em> weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend, and we hope you can join us on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about what it is parents are doing to raise joy-filled kids. Marcus Warner and Chris Coursey will be here. I hope you can be back for that as well.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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