{"id":307404,"date":"2022-02-14T08:02:08","date_gmt":"2022-02-14T13:02:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-rocky-start\/"},"modified":"2022-02-14T08:02:08","modified_gmt":"2022-02-14T13:02:08","slug":"a-rocky-start","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-rocky-start\/","title":{"rendered":"A Rocky Start"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Ron and Jody Zappia, authors of &#8220;The Marriage Knot,&#8221; thought that marriage would be easy, since they had dated on and off in high school and college. Jealousy over Jody&#8217;s corporate success, however, led Ron to look outside of his marriage for fulfillment. Jody thought she would surprise him and return from her business trip early, but she was even more surprised to find that he wasn&#8217;t alone. The Zappias share how God intervened and gave them the help they needed.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tFind more content and resources on the FamilyLife&#8217;s app!<br \/>\n \tHelp others find Familylife.\u00a0 Leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all the Familylife&#8217;s on the FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ron and Jody Zappia thought that marriage would be easy. However, jealousy over Jody&#8217;s corporate success led Ron to look outside of his marriage for fulfillment. The Zappias share how God intervened.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-14_ALT.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.81M","filesize_raw":"23921310","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2860,2903],"tags":[5062,4377,4874,6586],"podcast_series":[8266],"cwp_profile":[9522],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307404","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-infidelity","tag-adultery","tag-affair","tag-infidelity","tag-surviving-an-affair","podcast_series-the-marriage-knot","cwp_profile-ron-and-jody-zappia","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307404\/a-rocky-start","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307404\/a-rocky-start","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"6iaAkKvU4P\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-rocky-start\/\">A Rocky Start<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-rocky-start\/embed\/#?secret=6iaAkKvU4P\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Rocky Start&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"6iaAkKvU4P\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2019-04-22.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-14_ALT.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron and Jody Zappia married with no plan and with no relationship with God to help navigate their new marriage. That led them to disaster.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I was making decisions that were stupid and foolish. You know, I wasn\u2019t a follower of Christ; I wasn\u2019t a believer. I got involved in a relationship\u2014an unhealthy relationship at work\u2014which led to infidelity, which led to Jody walking in. The next thing you knew\u2014that was it. Our relationship was over. I just bought into a lot of things that I think a lot of people still do today that can damage and wreck the <em>greatest<\/em> treasure that you have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, April 22<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. As you might imagine, the fact that Ron and Jody Zappia are joining us today means there\u2019s a happy ending to that story. We\u2019ll hear how they got to their happy ending today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Before we dive right into what we\u2019re talking about today, I know we\u2019ve got listeners, who have heard us talking about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>and the fact that the two of you speak at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways, along with other couples, who are a part of our speaker team. We still have a few dozen of these events happening this month\u2014in May and in June.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn honor of your new role, as the hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, our team said, \u201cWe want to offer <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners the Dave and Ann Wilson special.\u201d Anybody who wants to go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in your honor\u2014if they sign up this week for one of the remaining <em>Weekend<\/em> getaways\u2014they\u2019ll save 40 percent off the regular registration fee, just as a way to say, \u201cWelcome aboard,\u201d to Dave and Ann.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, if you want more information about attending an upcoming getaway\u2014and if you\u2019d like to save some money, courtesy of the new hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and all the information is available there; or call us at \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1-800-FL-TODAY. We hope you\u2019ll join us at one of these upcoming getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s always good to have friends, who drop by to be on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You\u2019ve known this couple\u2014for how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re thinking\u2014they\u2019re our friends? Is that what you\u2019re saying? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It has seemed that way since they arrived\u2014you\u2019ve acted like you guys know each other and like each other. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s actually a pretty interesting story. Ann and I, last year, were\u2014Ann was surprising me\u2014taking me to Las Vegas to see a great Cirque du Soleil<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> show. This late\u2014I don\u2019t know if you guys remember it\u2014we got asked to do a marriage [talk and panel at their church]\u2014one session\u2014the same day we\u2019re flying to Vegas. We figured out a way to stop in Chicago on the way and do one talk and a panel at their church. Then, we saw Elton John that night; so it was <em>quite<\/em> a trip. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It was a gamble for <em>us<\/em>\u2014let\u2019s just all say\u2014we gambled right. [Laughter] And it went good; you know what I mean. We actually asked Ann, and Dave happened to be there. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We really\u2014we <em>really<\/em> clicked with these guys. There is a <em>real<\/em> camaraderie between us; it\u2019s been <em>fun<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the guys you are talking about are Ron and Jody Zappia, who join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome, guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ron and Jody live in the western suburbs of Chicago, where Ron is the pastor at Highpoint Church, a multi-site church, out in the western \u2018burbs. The Zappias have been married since 1989, have three\u2014can we call them all adult children now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Three children\u2014two married and one who is in college.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And your own story\u2014I asked you, \u201cWhen did you get married?\u201d and you said, \u201cWe got married in \u201989, but we don\u2019t count the first year.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, sometimes, the story is this\u2014it was crash and burn for us. The first year wasn\u2019t <em>just<\/em> difficult for us; we, literally, had to crash and burn to look up. Jody and I both, you know, grew up in non-Christian homes\u2014our basis for marriage was good, ethical behavior. We saw our parents had great marriages, but they weren\u2019t faith-based, at all, in that kind of situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor us, we had known each other for years\u2014we went to the same high school, all that kind of stuff. Year number one was a trial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you guys meet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We\u2019ve known each other since we were kids. We met in\u2014technically, in junior high, when I borrowed 20 cents from the guy; and I\u2019ve been paying him back for the rest of my life. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Stop it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>He wouldn\u2019t take the money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That was the most costly phone call of your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I was the new kid. I was the new kid in eighth grade; she was seventh grade. You know, it was good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We dated through high school pretty much and, then, went to different colleges; but dated most of the way through college. We had dated probably eight to ten years before we got married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eight-plus years, though, of dating. Was it off-and-on dating?\u2014or was it, \u201cWe\u2019re pretty much together,\u201d the whole time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Let me take this one, Bob. Basketball season, basically, was this\u2014my head couldn\u2019t fit through the door. I would be stupid and, then, Jody would break up with me. Then, I would come, you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014crawling back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014crawling back at track. It was just like\u2014spring season, and you know, my tail between my legs. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You dated basketball in the winter, and you dated Jody the rest of the year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s kind of how it worked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Jody, you kept taking him back. You must have seen something you liked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> He was definitely a diamond in the rough\u2014I\u2019ll say that. But no; we\u2014it was kind of on again\/off again. In that respect, I guess it shouldn\u2019t have been such a surprise that that first year was rough; because of all that kind of going, back and forth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You get married, but you both had careers. Talk about that. You took off on a pretty fast pace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s one of the things that led to the breakdown, where your long-distance relationship is one thing; but then for us, Jody scored the big job, coming out of school. I was following <em>her<\/em>, which was a shot to the ego. I was in the business world in Cleveland. Jody was working out of a company from Michigan, actually. She was getting trained in Connecticut. Then, we finally made our way to Chicago the first year. And what?\u2014it was probably\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We were five months into our marriage before we were, even, in the same <em>city<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Then it took six months, not even, to crash and burn, as Ron described it. We\u2019d gotten very good at the weekend relationship. Even in college, that was kind of\u2014we\u2019d kind of lost track of what it was like to \u201cday to day.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So in those five months, what happened?\u2014besides being apart?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019ll just jump right in. The reality of it was that I was making decisions that were stupid\/foolish. As we said, I wasn\u2019t a follower of Christ; I wasn\u2019t a believer. I got involved in a relationship\u2014an unhealthy relationship at work\u2014which led to infidelity, which led to Jody walking in when she was supposed to be gone on a business trip. You know, I was doing something stupid; she came in and discovered this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe next thing you knew\u2014that was it\u2014like our relationship was over. That was the crisis; that was the rock bottom. As I said, I wasn\u2019t going to church. I wasn\u2019t built on a biblical foundation. You know, I was doing things that were\u2014living a college behavior and lifestyle. I just bought into a lot of things that I think a lot of people still do today that can damage and really wreck the <em>greatest<\/em> treasure that you have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jody, how hard was that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>It\u2019s one of those things\u2014it\u2019s kind of indicative of my contribution to our marriage failing. My career and my job was\u2014I guess I was a very driven person, but that\u2019s how I got the job. That\u2019s what I thought I was supposed to be doing. That\u2019s how I did well at everything else, up to that point. Ron had been out of town, and he was just getting back that night. Of course, I was leaving. I was working on a presentation, and it took me longer than I thought. I thought: \u201cI\u2019ll surprise him. I\u2019ll just stay tonight and I\u2019ll leave real early in the morning instead.\u201d I was going to be driving to Michigan. The surprise, unfortunately, was on <em>me<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What did you do? After that?\u2014did you just leave?\u2014did you get mad?\u2014did you yell?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I could hardly speak. I just remember\u2014I think he took the gal away. I remember just kind of sleeping on the living room floor; you know? That was\u2014we didn\u2019t really have any family around us. It was a hard thing; but in hindsight, I can say it was probably, in a way, a good thing; because it did leave me nowhere but to look to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think it was over?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; I really did think like, \u201cI guess my next step is just to get a divorce.\u201d You know, that\u2019s just what I thought; because I remember\u2014you think about things\u2014and because of our dating history, we\u2019d had some things that\u2014I guess I shouldn\u2019t have been that surprised that this could happen\u2014but I had always said, you know, \u201cThat\u2019s the one thing I would not put up with.\u201d And boy, here it was\u2014it was right in front of me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ron, was your involvement with somebody else because of dissatisfaction in your early marriage?\u2014or were you just\u2014did you not have guardrails up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; well, I think it was both of those things. You know, certainly, there was no guardrails. You know, as I said, I was making decisions like had been made in the past\u2014and living the life, you know, with doing things, and drinking things, and getting to a place where the boundaries weren\u2019t there at all. Jody was working, and doing things, and moving along the career path; and I thought that was going to bring me satisfaction; that was going to bring the happiness; that was what was missing. I think a lot of people fall into these kinds of traps. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reality of it is\u2014Jody had prayed a month\/a week\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> It was a few days before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014a few days before, she had prayed to God. We weren\u2019t Christians; we weren\u2019t praying people. She prayed, \u201cGod, if You show me what\u2019s wrong, I\u2019ll do my part to fix it.\u201d She had this\u2014she had a feeling\u2014I don\u2019t want to speak for her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I want to say\u2014it might have been <em>the<\/em> evening prior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I was not really a praying\u2014I only prayed when I was kind of in deep trouble. But maybe, I was sensing this\u2014I was sensing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You sensed that something was wrong; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014something was wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, that is amazing. And just hearing that you asked God to show you\u2014and you walked in\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and He showed you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>Yes; He had my full attention, you know, at that point. I can remember just sitting there, looking up and saying, \u201cOkay; what do You want?\u201d You know, like there was\u2014that fear of God really kicked in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, Ron, what were you thinking? We\u2019ve heard the other side, but you have <em>now<\/em> just been caught.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; I didn\u2019t know what to do\u2014I didn\u2019t know where to go; I was lonely. I thought I could do these things. I didn\u2019t want to do this; this was my best friend\u2014this was the relationship that I cared about. What I did was\u2014I threw it away like it was a piece of trash\/a piece of garbage. I didn\u2019t want to hurt her; but I was so self-centered and, you know, so\u2014doing the things of what seemed right and best for <em>me<\/em>. I got off the rails pretty, pretty fast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do you remember about your first conversation together after this happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Well, I had contacted my sister that night, I think, just to say, \u201cHey, what do I do?\u201d because I knew I could trust her. She\u2019s the one who, actually, said\u2014she said: \u201cWell, that\u2019s a really big decision\u2014getting divorced\u2014it\u2019s not just something you do.\u201d She said, \u201cI think you should get counseling first.\u201d And then she said, \u201cBut make sure it\u2019s Christian counseling.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhere do you get that?!\u201d I remember her saying, \u201cOh, that\u2019s right; you guys don\u2019t go to church.\u201d I said, \u201cNo\u201d; and I said, \u201cWell, there\u2019s one across the street.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI literally, the next morning, got all dressed up and waited for the cars to be <em>leaving<\/em> the church parking lot. I had no intention of going to church; I was going to just go there and find out about where I would get this Christian counseling. The next conversation I really remember, after I\u2019d showed up at this church\u2014and a complete stranger\u2014just a sweet woman, who I thought was just kind of cleaning up at church. The pastor\u2019s office was empty. She\u2019s the one who told me to go to a marriage ministry that was in town\u2014that was at another church, which was kind of interesting\u2014their church didn\u2019t have it. She had the foresight to say\u2014to get me to where I needed to be to get the help I needed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe told me: \u201cGo to this church. Go to this workshop.\u201d The most important thing she said was: \u201cBut don\u2019t go there with half your heart. Go there with your <em>whole<\/em> heart.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose words, I know, were directly from God; because it would come back to me as I listened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Great advice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> So I planned to go to this thing. Somehow, the conversation came up; and Ron wanted to go also. I was like, \u201cWell, Okay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ron, were you instantly repentant?\u2014like sorry for what had happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Well, I mean, the sorry was there; but I don\u2019t know if\u2014we didn\u2019t even know what repentance was, as far as we didn\u2019t have a biblical church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> He was broken.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; I think I was just broken. I knew what I did was wrong; I knew what I did wasn\u2019t right. How did I trip and fall in this area again? You know, I had a background in selfishness and pride. I didn\u2019t have anywhere to turn. We were in Chicago, alone\u2014no friends\/nobody\u2014didn\u2019t have any friend base. That is actually what God <em>used<\/em> to help us; because I got cut down at the knees, I didn\u2019t have anywhere to turn\u2014I just said, \u201cI\u2019ll go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was there negotiation between the two of you?\u2014was there begging? Were you angry?\u2014were you crying? What was going on between the two of you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> There was a lot of tears. I mean, you know, I think we weren\u2019t as verbal as we are, even, now. I think just even\u2014just walking into this marriage and to be able to share feelings\u2014I didn\u2019t do any of that\u2014like we didn\u2019t do it. We just didn\u2019t have that kind of opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJody was a businesswoman, who got her\u2014you know, this is back in the day when you had the Franklin Planner\u2014and she had the Franklin Planner. She opened the Franklin Planner and said, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll give this this much time\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2026two weeks.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Circled the date on the calendar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You gave it two weeks?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014<strong> \u201c<\/strong>And then, I\u2019m going to divorce him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cor I\u2019ll make a decision about the divorce.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> She was <em>extremely<\/em> gracious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right; that was the gap in the time for us to go to this church\u2014we wound up going. I\u2019ll never forget it was\u2014so this happens on the worst night of our lives, which is a Saturday. Sunday, she gets up, puts on the dress, goes to the church. It\u2019s an interesting story because the woman\u2014you know, Jody thought she was an angel or something\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Maybe; maybe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014because it was a church that was being used by an Asian church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>\u2014in the afternoons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; in the afternoons. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis lady was kind of cleaning up. The empathy she showed to Jody is the thing\u2014the tears. Any of us involved in ministry, now, you know, have the privilege of leading people\u2014but the empathy we can show to people in their greatest point of difficulty and need. This woman was there\u2014she was a Godsend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJody, actually, went back\u2014we found her, two years later, after the marriage was restored. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I wanted to see if maybe she was an angel. [Laughter] But she was there, and she did remember me. It turned out that she was, actually, the pastor\u2019s wife of the Asian church that met in the afternoons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Can you believe that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> She was actually setting up. To me, it looked like she was straightening things up. Little did I know\u2014I never, at that point, there was no hope that I would ever become a pastor\u2019s wife. I just think it\u2019s so funny\u2014how full circle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>We\u2014getting back on track here\u2014we went to this marriage workshop.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014Monday night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> The spotlight was on us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were they just doing these marriage workshops all the time?\u2014or they had one scheduled when you needed it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> It had just started the week prior to our breakdown. We got in there; and it was, literally, week two of an eight-week thing\u2014probably, 500 people attended the thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was big!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We ended up in the overflow group, which again, was a Godsend; because I got an appointment with the pastor\u2014like he wasn\u2019t meeting people anymore because the ministry had gotten so big. I had put this in my Franklin Planner, that I had to make a decision by this Thursday about my divorce. I\u2019m in the overflow group, and I\u2019m not getting my questions answered. So I kind of was a little\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What were the questions that you needed to have answered?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u201cCan I get a divorce?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You wanted to know if it was okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014\u201con what grounds?\u201d I just didn\u2019t know how anything worked. You know, our parents were not divorced. It was not something we ever thought about\/knew anything about. I didn\u2019t know, \u201cHow do you do this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cDo I have grounds?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u201cDo I have grounds? And if so, then what do I do?\u201d I really did think that\u2019s what we were going there for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you sitting, together, in this overflow group? Were you just <em>furious<\/em> with him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> That\u2019s where her words would kick in; because I would be sitting there, and at moments, I would have a little\u2014I would just kind of start doing a little pro\/con list\u2014you know, that\u2019s how I operated, making decisions. [Laughter] Then it would hit me that I wasn\u2019t listening with my whole heart. I would drop my pencil; and I\u2019m a note taker\u2014I don\u2019t drop my pencil.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That \u201cwhole heart\u201d thing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014that was just huge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>That was the Holy Spirit; it was the Holy Spirit. I didn\u2019t know the verse at the time, but Jeremiah 29:13, \u201cSeek Me and you\u2019ll find Me, but when you seek Me with your whole heart.\u201d That\u2019s what was going on with <em>me<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, Ron would describe\u2014he was having those moments, where you feel like the spotlight was on\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; the spotlight was on <em>me<\/em>. I\u2019d never heard the things before\u2014the Bible was never real to me. The Bible was never presented to me in such a way, where it was applicable to my life. The reality was this\u2014I was experiencing conviction\u2014I know now. I was sweating; I mean, I was crying. The things that this man was saying from the front\u2014I had never heard before. I blew it; I wanted a do-over; I wanted a start over. I had this <em>huge<\/em> weight of guilt and shame that I didn\u2019t know what to do with. I didn\u2019t have <em>anywhere<\/em> to turn. I needed the forgiveness that I know now\u2014that I see\/that I understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know so many people are walking around, trying to do it on their own\u2014do it in their own strength\/carry that weight for themselves. Jody was on a mission to make a decision. I was shattered\u2014my earth was shattered; my life was <em>over<\/em>; I was broken. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You guys, Dave and Ann, in pastoral ministry, have sat down with\u2014you probably couldn\u2019t count the number of couples who have had this kind of an earthquake go off in their marriage. They\u2019re wondering: \u201cCan I get a divorce? Should I get a divorce? What do we do now? Can we ever trust one another again?\u201d\u2014I mean, all of these questions that are swirling around. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo hear Jody say, \u201cGo there with your whole heart,\u201d\u2014to get that advice\u2014\u201cBut don\u2019t just react.\u201d This is something you have to approach\u2014prayerfully, and carefully, and get some solid counsel\u2014before you decide what your next step\u2019s going to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As you\u2019ve said, we\u2019ve sat with many couples, over 29 years of ministry. The one that comes to my mind is one of my best friends, who was in my men\u2019s group\u2014still is\u2014for 20 years. I was with John the night he discovered Betsy was having an affair.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Betsy is a really good friend of mine, and she\u2019s in my women\u2019s group. I remember thinking, \u201cSomething\u2019s wrong.\u201d I remember saying to her\u2014I think it was the night before she was caught. I don\u2019t even know why it came out of my mouth; but I said: \u201cI just want you to know that even if you were having an affair\u2014I don\u2019t care what you would do\u2014we would still love you. We would still pursue you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We met with John and Betsy the next day, and the next couple of days. I remember getting in the car, after one of our first meetings with John and Betsy. I just listened to her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You felt so hopeless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014there was no brokenness; she wasn\u2019t contrite. John was angry; betrayed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sitting here, right now, going, \u201cHe raised this marriage from the dead.\u201d It is a beautiful, beautiful story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m looking at a couple\u2014He\u2019s done the same thing\u2014different circumstances but similar. We haven\u2019t even <em>heard<\/em> that part of the story yet. I can\u2019t wait to keep talking to hear the rest of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are folks, who have had this earthquake go off in their lives in the last 48 hours or in the last couple of weeks\u2014they\u2019re listening to this. Maybe, God is speaking to them through this. They\u2019re wondering: \u201cWhat should I do? What should I be listening to?\u201d What do you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I say\u2014I would get on my knees and say: \u201cGod, help me; help us. Give me wisdom.\u201d Take your time. I think we can react so quickly on our emotion. Sometimes, I think some of the best advice that you got was: \u201cHold on,\u201d and \u201cGo in with all of your heart.\u201d Why wouldn\u2019t you offer God your heart and ask Him to guard it\/to shield it?\u2014but also, to give you eyes to know and see what steps to take. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I <em>love<\/em> the verse in the Old Testament that talks about God bringing beauty from ashes. We\u2019re sitting here with a couple\u2014we\u2019ve heard just a part of their story today\u2014they have a book called <em>The Marriage Knot: 7 Choices That Keep Couples Together.<\/em> I am going, \u201cThat\u2019s beauty from ashes, right there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of their book in our FamilyLife Resource Center. You can go online for more information on how to get a copy of the book. Again, <em>7 Choices That Keep Couples Together: The Marriage Knot<\/em>, by Ron and Jody Zappia. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s also information, online, about our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. These are great two-and-a-half day getaways for couples to strengthen their marriage relationship, wherever you are in your marriage. This getaway can help your marriage grow stronger. If you\u2019re at a crisis point, like the Zappias were in their marriage, this getaway can help you chart a course back to oneness in your marriage relationship. We\u2019ve seen that happen with tens of thousands of couples.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, we\u2019re making a special offer to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners in honor of Dave and Ann Wilson as the new hosts for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Radio listeners can save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t40 percent off the regular registration if you\u2019ll sign up this week for any of the remaining\u2014I think there are like 16 getaways still happening this spring. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to register, or call if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Plan to attend a getaway and save some money, this week, when you register. Again, the information is at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY for more information.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, listening to Ron and Jody\u2019s story today, I\u2019m thinking about the couples we meet at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways\u2014this is the reality for a lot of couples in their marriage. They\u2019re in difficult, messy situations. David Robbins, who\u2019s the President of FamilyLife, is here with us today. David, there are more stories like this in marriages than I think a lot of us realize.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; you know, I love the exhortation that the lady across the street in the church gave Jody as she was going to the marriage class. She simply said, \u201cGo with your whole heart.\u201d As I think about couples, who are going to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway\u2014I think that\u2019s the challenge I would give them: \u201c Go with an open heart and with your <em>whole<\/em> heart.\u201d I always marvel at the ways God moves to save, and redeem, and restore marriages. What we see happen in Ron and Jody\u2019s story is what we see happen at every <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; I was just at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in Kansas City. You\u2019re right\u2014most of the couples who were there are there to refresh their marriage\u2014they\u2019re there for a little marriage maintenance. But there are couples, who are in a dark place; and God meets them there. We saw it happen, again, at the getaway I just attended.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> You know, one of the most consistent things I hear from couples, coming from getaways is: \u201cWe weren\u2019t even having conversations like this before we came. We did not know how to talk to each other this way. Thank you for the ways you are inviting us to grow deeper in our conversations together.\u201d God is in the business of seeking and saving His people, but also seeking and saving marriages people are in. He cares <em>deeply<\/em> about both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; couples leave the getaway with help and with hope. Again, if listeners want to take advantage of a special offer, they can go to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for more information; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear how Ron and Jody Zappia got from the destruction of their marriage to the resurrection of their marriage and about the marriage counseling they got that was\u2014it was pretty direct. We\u2019ll hear that story tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:24:55"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.81M"],"filesize_raw":["23921310"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307404.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307404.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Jody Zappia thought that marriage would be easy. However, jealousy over Jody's corporate success led Ron to look outside of his marriage for fulfillment. The Zappias share how God intervened.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2019-04-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron and Jody Zappia married with no plan and with no relationship with God to help navigate their new marriage. That led them to disaster.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I was making decisions that were stupid and foolish. You know, I wasn\u2019t a follower of Christ; I wasn\u2019t a believer. I got involved in a relationship\u2014an unhealthy relationship at work\u2014which led to infidelity, which led to Jody walking in. The next thing you knew\u2014that was it. Our relationship was over. I just bought into a lot of things that I think a lot of people still do today that can damage and wreck the <em>greatest<\/em> treasure that you have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, April 22<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. As you might imagine, the fact that Ron and Jody Zappia are joining us today means there\u2019s a happy ending to that story. We\u2019ll hear how they got to their happy ending today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Before we dive right into what we\u2019re talking about today, I know we\u2019ve got listeners, who have heard us talking about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>and the fact that the two of you speak at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways, along with other couples, who are a part of our speaker team. We still have a few dozen of these events happening this month\u2014in May and in June.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn honor of your new role, as the hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, our team said, \u201cWe want to offer <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners the Dave and Ann Wilson special.\u201d Anybody who wants to go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in your honor\u2014if they sign up this week for one of the remaining <em>Weekend<\/em> getaways\u2014they\u2019ll save 40 percent off the regular registration fee, just as a way to say, \u201cWelcome aboard,\u201d to Dave and Ann.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, if you want more information about attending an upcoming getaway\u2014and if you\u2019d like to save some money, courtesy of the new hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and all the information is available there; or call us at \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1-800-FL-TODAY. We hope you\u2019ll join us at one of these upcoming getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s always good to have friends, who drop by to be on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You\u2019ve known this couple\u2014for how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re thinking\u2014they\u2019re our friends? Is that what you\u2019re saying? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It has seemed that way since they arrived\u2014you\u2019ve acted like you guys know each other and like each other. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s actually a pretty interesting story. Ann and I, last year, were\u2014Ann was surprising me\u2014taking me to Las Vegas to see a great Cirque du Soleil<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> show. This late\u2014I don\u2019t know if you guys remember it\u2014we got asked to do a marriage [talk and panel at their church]\u2014one session\u2014the same day we\u2019re flying to Vegas. We figured out a way to stop in Chicago on the way and do one talk and a panel at their church. Then, we saw Elton John that night; so it was <em>quite<\/em> a trip. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It was a gamble for <em>us<\/em>\u2014let\u2019s just all say\u2014we gambled right. [Laughter] And it went good; you know what I mean. We actually asked Ann, and Dave happened to be there. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We really\u2014we <em>really<\/em> clicked with these guys. There is a <em>real<\/em> camaraderie between us; it\u2019s been <em>fun<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the guys you are talking about are Ron and Jody Zappia, who join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome, guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ron and Jody live in the western suburbs of Chicago, where Ron is the pastor at Highpoint Church, a multi-site church, out in the western \u2018burbs. The Zappias have been married since 1989, have three\u2014can we call them all adult children now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Three children\u2014two married and one who is in college.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And your own story\u2014I asked you, \u201cWhen did you get married?\u201d and you said, \u201cWe got married in \u201989, but we don\u2019t count the first year.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, sometimes, the story is this\u2014it was crash and burn for us. The first year wasn\u2019t <em>just<\/em> difficult for us; we, literally, had to crash and burn to look up. Jody and I both, you know, grew up in non-Christian homes\u2014our basis for marriage was good, ethical behavior. We saw our parents had great marriages, but they weren\u2019t faith-based, at all, in that kind of situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor us, we had known each other for years\u2014we went to the same high school, all that kind of stuff. Year number one was a trial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you guys meet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We\u2019ve known each other since we were kids. We met in\u2014technically, in junior high, when I borrowed 20 cents from the guy; and I\u2019ve been paying him back for the rest of my life. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Stop it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>He wouldn\u2019t take the money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That was the most costly phone call of your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I was the new kid. I was the new kid in eighth grade; she was seventh grade. You know, it was good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We dated through high school pretty much and, then, went to different colleges; but dated most of the way through college. We had dated probably eight to ten years before we got married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eight-plus years, though, of dating. Was it off-and-on dating?\u2014or was it, \u201cWe\u2019re pretty much together,\u201d the whole time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Let me take this one, Bob. Basketball season, basically, was this\u2014my head couldn\u2019t fit through the door. I would be stupid and, then, Jody would break up with me. Then, I would come, you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014crawling back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014crawling back at track. It was just like\u2014spring season, and you know, my tail between my legs. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You dated basketball in the winter, and you dated Jody the rest of the year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s kind of how it worked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Jody, you kept taking him back. You must have seen something you liked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> He was definitely a diamond in the rough\u2014I\u2019ll say that. But no; we\u2014it was kind of on again\/off again. In that respect, I guess it shouldn\u2019t have been such a surprise that that first year was rough; because of all that kind of going, back and forth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You get married, but you both had careers. Talk about that. You took off on a pretty fast pace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s one of the things that led to the breakdown, where your long-distance relationship is one thing; but then for us, Jody scored the big job, coming out of school. I was following <em>her<\/em>, which was a shot to the ego. I was in the business world in Cleveland. Jody was working out of a company from Michigan, actually. She was getting trained in Connecticut. Then, we finally made our way to Chicago the first year. And what?\u2014it was probably\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We were five months into our marriage before we were, even, in the same <em>city<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Then it took six months, not even, to crash and burn, as Ron described it. We\u2019d gotten very good at the weekend relationship. Even in college, that was kind of\u2014we\u2019d kind of lost track of what it was like to \u201cday to day.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So in those five months, what happened?\u2014besides being apart?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019ll just jump right in. The reality of it was that I was making decisions that were stupid\/foolish. As we said, I wasn\u2019t a follower of Christ; I wasn\u2019t a believer. I got involved in a relationship\u2014an unhealthy relationship at work\u2014which led to infidelity, which led to Jody walking in when she was supposed to be gone on a business trip. You know, I was doing something stupid; she came in and discovered this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe next thing you knew\u2014that was it\u2014like our relationship was over. That was the crisis; that was the rock bottom. As I said, I wasn\u2019t going to church. I wasn\u2019t built on a biblical foundation. You know, I was doing things that were\u2014living a college behavior and lifestyle. I just bought into a lot of things that I think a lot of people still do today that can damage and really wreck the <em>greatest<\/em> treasure that you have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jody, how hard was that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>It\u2019s one of those things\u2014it\u2019s kind of indicative of my contribution to our marriage failing. My career and my job was\u2014I guess I was a very driven person, but that\u2019s how I got the job. That\u2019s what I thought I was supposed to be doing. That\u2019s how I did well at everything else, up to that point. Ron had been out of town, and he was just getting back that night. Of course, I was leaving. I was working on a presentation, and it took me longer than I thought. I thought: \u201cI\u2019ll surprise him. I\u2019ll just stay tonight and I\u2019ll leave real early in the morning instead.\u201d I was going to be driving to Michigan. The surprise, unfortunately, was on <em>me<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What did you do? After that?\u2014did you just leave?\u2014did you get mad?\u2014did you yell?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I could hardly speak. I just remember\u2014I think he took the gal away. I remember just kind of sleeping on the living room floor; you know? That was\u2014we didn\u2019t really have any family around us. It was a hard thing; but in hindsight, I can say it was probably, in a way, a good thing; because it did leave me nowhere but to look to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think it was over?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; I really did think like, \u201cI guess my next step is just to get a divorce.\u201d You know, that\u2019s just what I thought; because I remember\u2014you think about things\u2014and because of our dating history, we\u2019d had some things that\u2014I guess I shouldn\u2019t have been that surprised that this could happen\u2014but I had always said, you know, \u201cThat\u2019s the one thing I would not put up with.\u201d And boy, here it was\u2014it was right in front of me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ron, was your involvement with somebody else because of dissatisfaction in your early marriage?\u2014or were you just\u2014did you not have guardrails up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; well, I think it was both of those things. You know, certainly, there was no guardrails. You know, as I said, I was making decisions like had been made in the past\u2014and living the life, you know, with doing things, and drinking things, and getting to a place where the boundaries weren\u2019t there at all. Jody was working, and doing things, and moving along the career path; and I thought that was going to bring me satisfaction; that was going to bring the happiness; that was what was missing. I think a lot of people fall into these kinds of traps. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reality of it is\u2014Jody had prayed a month\/a week\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> It was a few days before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014a few days before, she had prayed to God. We weren\u2019t Christians; we weren\u2019t praying people. She prayed, \u201cGod, if You show me what\u2019s wrong, I\u2019ll do my part to fix it.\u201d She had this\u2014she had a feeling\u2014I don\u2019t want to speak for her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I want to say\u2014it might have been <em>the<\/em> evening prior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I was not really a praying\u2014I only prayed when I was kind of in deep trouble. But maybe, I was sensing this\u2014I was sensing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You sensed that something was wrong; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014something was wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, that is amazing. And just hearing that you asked God to show you\u2014and you walked in\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and He showed you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>Yes; He had my full attention, you know, at that point. I can remember just sitting there, looking up and saying, \u201cOkay; what do You want?\u201d You know, like there was\u2014that fear of God really kicked in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, Ron, what were you thinking? We\u2019ve heard the other side, but you have <em>now<\/em> just been caught.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; I didn\u2019t know what to do\u2014I didn\u2019t know where to go; I was lonely. I thought I could do these things. I didn\u2019t want to do this; this was my best friend\u2014this was the relationship that I cared about. What I did was\u2014I threw it away like it was a piece of trash\/a piece of garbage. I didn\u2019t want to hurt her; but I was so self-centered and, you know, so\u2014doing the things of what seemed right and best for <em>me<\/em>. I got off the rails pretty, pretty fast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do you remember about your first conversation together after this happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Well, I had contacted my sister that night, I think, just to say, \u201cHey, what do I do?\u201d because I knew I could trust her. She\u2019s the one who, actually, said\u2014she said: \u201cWell, that\u2019s a really big decision\u2014getting divorced\u2014it\u2019s not just something you do.\u201d She said, \u201cI think you should get counseling first.\u201d And then she said, \u201cBut make sure it\u2019s Christian counseling.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhere do you get that?!\u201d I remember her saying, \u201cOh, that\u2019s right; you guys don\u2019t go to church.\u201d I said, \u201cNo\u201d; and I said, \u201cWell, there\u2019s one across the street.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI literally, the next morning, got all dressed up and waited for the cars to be <em>leaving<\/em> the church parking lot. I had no intention of going to church; I was going to just go there and find out about where I would get this Christian counseling. The next conversation I really remember, after I\u2019d showed up at this church\u2014and a complete stranger\u2014just a sweet woman, who I thought was just kind of cleaning up at church. The pastor\u2019s office was empty. She\u2019s the one who told me to go to a marriage ministry that was in town\u2014that was at another church, which was kind of interesting\u2014their church didn\u2019t have it. She had the foresight to say\u2014to get me to where I needed to be to get the help I needed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe told me: \u201cGo to this church. Go to this workshop.\u201d The most important thing she said was: \u201cBut don\u2019t go there with half your heart. Go there with your <em>whole<\/em> heart.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose words, I know, were directly from God; because it would come back to me as I listened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Great advice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> So I planned to go to this thing. Somehow, the conversation came up; and Ron wanted to go also. I was like, \u201cWell, Okay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ron, were you instantly repentant?\u2014like sorry for what had happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Well, I mean, the sorry was there; but I don\u2019t know if\u2014we didn\u2019t even know what repentance was, as far as we didn\u2019t have a biblical church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> He was broken.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; I think I was just broken. I knew what I did was wrong; I knew what I did wasn\u2019t right. How did I trip and fall in this area again? You know, I had a background in selfishness and pride. I didn\u2019t have anywhere to turn. We were in Chicago, alone\u2014no friends\/nobody\u2014didn\u2019t have any friend base. That is actually what God <em>used<\/em> to help us; because I got cut down at the knees, I didn\u2019t have anywhere to turn\u2014I just said, \u201cI\u2019ll go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was there negotiation between the two of you?\u2014was there begging? Were you angry?\u2014were you crying? What was going on between the two of you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> There was a lot of tears. I mean, you know, I think we weren\u2019t as verbal as we are, even, now. I think just even\u2014just walking into this marriage and to be able to share feelings\u2014I didn\u2019t do any of that\u2014like we didn\u2019t do it. We just didn\u2019t have that kind of opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJody was a businesswoman, who got her\u2014you know, this is back in the day when you had the Franklin Planner\u2014and she had the Franklin Planner. She opened the Franklin Planner and said, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll give this this much time\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2026two weeks.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Circled the date on the calendar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You gave it two weeks?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014<strong> \u201c<\/strong>And then, I\u2019m going to divorce him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cor I\u2019ll make a decision about the divorce.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> She was <em>extremely<\/em> gracious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right; that was the gap in the time for us to go to this church\u2014we wound up going. I\u2019ll never forget it was\u2014so this happens on the worst night of our lives, which is a Saturday. Sunday, she gets up, puts on the dress, goes to the church. It\u2019s an interesting story because the woman\u2014you know, Jody thought she was an angel or something\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Maybe; maybe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014because it was a church that was being used by an Asian church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>\u2014in the afternoons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; in the afternoons. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis lady was kind of cleaning up. The empathy she showed to Jody is the thing\u2014the tears. Any of us involved in ministry, now, you know, have the privilege of leading people\u2014but the empathy we can show to people in their greatest point of difficulty and need. This woman was there\u2014she was a Godsend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJody, actually, went back\u2014we found her, two years later, after the marriage was restored. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I wanted to see if maybe she was an angel. [Laughter] But she was there, and she did remember me. It turned out that she was, actually, the pastor\u2019s wife of the Asian church that met in the afternoons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Can you believe that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> She was actually setting up. To me, it looked like she was straightening things up. Little did I know\u2014I never, at that point, there was no hope that I would ever become a pastor\u2019s wife. I just think it\u2019s so funny\u2014how full circle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>We\u2014getting back on track here\u2014we went to this marriage workshop.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014Monday night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> The spotlight was on us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were they just doing these marriage workshops all the time?\u2014or they had one scheduled when you needed it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> It had just started the week prior to our breakdown. We got in there; and it was, literally, week two of an eight-week thing\u2014probably, 500 people attended the thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was big!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> We ended up in the overflow group, which again, was a Godsend; because I got an appointment with the pastor\u2014like he wasn\u2019t meeting people anymore because the ministry had gotten so big. I had put this in my Franklin Planner, that I had to make a decision by this Thursday about my divorce. I\u2019m in the overflow group, and I\u2019m not getting my questions answered. So I kind of was a little\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What were the questions that you needed to have answered?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u201cCan I get a divorce?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You wanted to know if it was okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014\u201con what grounds?\u201d I just didn\u2019t know how anything worked. You know, our parents were not divorced. It was not something we ever thought about\/knew anything about. I didn\u2019t know, \u201cHow do you do this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cDo I have grounds?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u201cDo I have grounds? And if so, then what do I do?\u201d I really did think that\u2019s what we were going there for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you sitting, together, in this overflow group? Were you just <em>furious<\/em> with him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> That\u2019s where her words would kick in; because I would be sitting there, and at moments, I would have a little\u2014I would just kind of start doing a little pro\/con list\u2014you know, that\u2019s how I operated, making decisions. [Laughter] Then it would hit me that I wasn\u2019t listening with my whole heart. I would drop my pencil; and I\u2019m a note taker\u2014I don\u2019t drop my pencil.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That \u201cwhole heart\u201d thing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014that was just huge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody: <\/strong>That was the Holy Spirit; it was the Holy Spirit. I didn\u2019t know the verse at the time, but Jeremiah 29:13, \u201cSeek Me and you\u2019ll find Me, but when you seek Me with your whole heart.\u201d That\u2019s what was going on with <em>me<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, Ron would describe\u2014he was having those moments, where you feel like the spotlight was on\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; the spotlight was on <em>me<\/em>. I\u2019d never heard the things before\u2014the Bible was never real to me. The Bible was never presented to me in such a way, where it was applicable to my life. The reality was this\u2014I was experiencing conviction\u2014I know now. I was sweating; I mean, I was crying. The things that this man was saying from the front\u2014I had never heard before. I blew it; I wanted a do-over; I wanted a start over. I had this <em>huge<\/em> weight of guilt and shame that I didn\u2019t know what to do with. I didn\u2019t have <em>anywhere<\/em> to turn. I needed the forgiveness that I know now\u2014that I see\/that I understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know so many people are walking around, trying to do it on their own\u2014do it in their own strength\/carry that weight for themselves. Jody was on a mission to make a decision. I was shattered\u2014my earth was shattered; my life was <em>over<\/em>; I was broken. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You guys, Dave and Ann, in pastoral ministry, have sat down with\u2014you probably couldn\u2019t count the number of couples who have had this kind of an earthquake go off in their marriage. They\u2019re wondering: \u201cCan I get a divorce? Should I get a divorce? What do we do now? Can we ever trust one another again?\u201d\u2014I mean, all of these questions that are swirling around. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo hear Jody say, \u201cGo there with your whole heart,\u201d\u2014to get that advice\u2014\u201cBut don\u2019t just react.\u201d This is something you have to approach\u2014prayerfully, and carefully, and get some solid counsel\u2014before you decide what your next step\u2019s going to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As you\u2019ve said, we\u2019ve sat with many couples, over 29 years of ministry. The one that comes to my mind is one of my best friends, who was in my men\u2019s group\u2014still is\u2014for 20 years. I was with John the night he discovered Betsy was having an affair.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Betsy is a really good friend of mine, and she\u2019s in my women\u2019s group. I remember thinking, \u201cSomething\u2019s wrong.\u201d I remember saying to her\u2014I think it was the night before she was caught. I don\u2019t even know why it came out of my mouth; but I said: \u201cI just want you to know that even if you were having an affair\u2014I don\u2019t care what you would do\u2014we would still love you. We would still pursue you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We met with John and Betsy the next day, and the next couple of days. I remember getting in the car, after one of our first meetings with John and Betsy. I just listened to her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You felt so hopeless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014there was no brokenness; she wasn\u2019t contrite. John was angry; betrayed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sitting here, right now, going, \u201cHe raised this marriage from the dead.\u201d It is a beautiful, beautiful story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m looking at a couple\u2014He\u2019s done the same thing\u2014different circumstances but similar. We haven\u2019t even <em>heard<\/em> that part of the story yet. I can\u2019t wait to keep talking to hear the rest of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are folks, who have had this earthquake go off in their lives in the last 48 hours or in the last couple of weeks\u2014they\u2019re listening to this. Maybe, God is speaking to them through this. They\u2019re wondering: \u201cWhat should I do? What should I be listening to?\u201d What do you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I say\u2014I would get on my knees and say: \u201cGod, help me; help us. Give me wisdom.\u201d Take your time. I think we can react so quickly on our emotion. Sometimes, I think some of the best advice that you got was: \u201cHold on,\u201d and \u201cGo in with all of your heart.\u201d Why wouldn\u2019t you offer God your heart and ask Him to guard it\/to shield it?\u2014but also, to give you eyes to know and see what steps to take. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I <em>love<\/em> the verse in the Old Testament that talks about God bringing beauty from ashes. We\u2019re sitting here with a couple\u2014we\u2019ve heard just a part of their story today\u2014they have a book called <em>The Marriage Knot: 7 Choices That Keep Couples Together.<\/em> I am going, \u201cThat\u2019s beauty from ashes, right there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of their book in our FamilyLife Resource Center. You can go online for more information on how to get a copy of the book. Again, <em>7 Choices That Keep Couples Together: The Marriage Knot<\/em>, by Ron and Jody Zappia. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s also information, online, about our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. These are great two-and-a-half day getaways for couples to strengthen their marriage relationship, wherever you are in your marriage. This getaway can help your marriage grow stronger. If you\u2019re at a crisis point, like the Zappias were in their marriage, this getaway can help you chart a course back to oneness in your marriage relationship. We\u2019ve seen that happen with tens of thousands of couples.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, we\u2019re making a special offer to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners in honor of Dave and Ann Wilson as the new hosts for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Radio listeners can save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t40 percent off the regular registration if you\u2019ll sign up this week for any of the remaining\u2014I think there are like 16 getaways still happening this spring. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to register, or call if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Plan to attend a getaway and save some money, this week, when you register. Again, the information is at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY for more information.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, listening to Ron and Jody\u2019s story today, I\u2019m thinking about the couples we meet at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways\u2014this is the reality for a lot of couples in their marriage. They\u2019re in difficult, messy situations. David Robbins, who\u2019s the President of FamilyLife, is here with us today. David, there are more stories like this in marriages than I think a lot of us realize.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; you know, I love the exhortation that the lady across the street in the church gave Jody as she was going to the marriage class. She simply said, \u201cGo with your whole heart.\u201d As I think about couples, who are going to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway\u2014I think that\u2019s the challenge I would give them: \u201c Go with an open heart and with your <em>whole<\/em> heart.\u201d I always marvel at the ways God moves to save, and redeem, and restore marriages. What we see happen in Ron and Jody\u2019s story is what we see happen at every <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; I was just at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in Kansas City. You\u2019re right\u2014most of the couples who were there are there to refresh their marriage\u2014they\u2019re there for a little marriage maintenance. But there are couples, who are in a dark place; and God meets them there. We saw it happen, again, at the getaway I just attended.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> You know, one of the most consistent things I hear from couples, coming from getaways is: \u201cWe weren\u2019t even having conversations like this before we came. We did not know how to talk to each other this way. Thank you for the ways you are inviting us to grow deeper in our conversations together.\u201d God is in the business of seeking and saving His people, but also seeking and saving marriages people are in. He cares <em>deeply<\/em> about both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; couples leave the getaway with help and with hope. Again, if listeners want to take advantage of a special offer, they can go to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for more information; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear how Ron and Jody Zappia got from the destruction of their marriage to the resurrection of their marriage and about the marriage counseling they got that was\u2014it was pretty direct. We\u2019ll hear that story tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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