{"id":307399,"date":"2022-02-10T08:02:08","date_gmt":"2022-02-10T13:02:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/porn-addiction-your-exit-strategy\/"},"modified":"2022-02-10T08:02:08","modified_gmt":"2022-02-10T13:02:08","slug":"porn-addiction-your-exit-strategy","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/porn-addiction-your-exit-strategy\/","title":{"rendered":"Porn Addiction: Your Exit Strategy"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Porn addiction can seem inescapable. But its power isn&#8217;t unbreakable. Author Ray Ortlund helps replace pornography&#8217;s dehumanizing lies with startling truth.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-10.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:49","filesize":"24.55M","filesize_raw":"25741206","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2844,2827],"tags":[4624],"podcast_series":[8503],"cwp_profile":[9452],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307399","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pornography","category-repentance","tag-porn-addiction","podcast_series-the-death-of-porn","cwp_profile-ray-ortlund","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307399\/porn-addiction-your-exit-strategy","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307399\/porn-addiction-your-exit-strategy","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"FIWTpTTvKo\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/porn-addiction-your-exit-strategy\/\">Porn Addiction: Your Exit Strategy<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/porn-addiction-your-exit-strategy\/embed\/#?secret=FIWTpTTvKo\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Porn Addiction: Your Exit Strategy&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"FIWTpTTvKo\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-10.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-10.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I want to see a <em>great<\/em> movement of God in our generation. What if, ten years from now, the most captivating preachers of the gospel in this country are ex-porn stars? What if the best storytellers for the gospel are ex-porn videographers? What if the most generous philanthropists are ex-porn investors? The risen Jesus is well-able to do that; would we not love to see that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m excited today. I\u2019ve never had a man in the studio who wrote the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019re right! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got one of the biblical writers\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in the studio. He is here! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No. And obviously, if you are listening, you are like, \u201cWhat in the world are you talking about?\u201d We\u2019ve got Ray Ortlund in the studio who\u2014you\u2019ve written many things\u2014but you are one of the cowriters of the ESV Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d rather say \u201ctranslators.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know; I know. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Ray. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Thank you. Great to be with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell us a little bit about yourself; because I know you\u2019re pastoring, sort of, now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Give us a little background. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, we planted Immanuel Church in Nashville, Tennessee, in 2008 and stayed there for a number of years\u2014just had a total <em>blast<\/em>\u2014I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> thankful that I ended my pastoral years on this upward trajectory of just <em>amazing<\/em> fun. We had such a great time; God really smiled on us. Eighty percent of the church are in their 20s and 30s; how did that happen? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014at your church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray: <\/strong>Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because you have a very young spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Oh, well, I don\u2019t know; but it\u2019s such a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe, now, are with Renewal Ministries, which is a nonprofit that my dear dad and mom handed down to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> We\u2019re under the board of RM, and we are having a <em>blast<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You have how many kids?\u2014grandkids? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Four kids\u2014all married\u2014and fourteen grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! Fourteen; are they near you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> No! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why did that happen, Ray? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I know; I know. We raised our kids to think for themselves, and then they went and did it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They do it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They left you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> The ingrates! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The ingrates. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe amazing thing is recently you released a book. I want to know if you thought you would release this your whole life, because it\u2019s called <em>The Death of Porn: Men of Integrity Building a World of Nobility<\/em>. Is this a life work? Is this something you saw yourself, ten years ago, writing? Or is this something that became a passion recently? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> More recently; because during those years at Immanuel Church, every Tuesday night, we had Immanuel Theology for Men. These <em>great<\/em> guys, in their 20s and 30s, for the most part, would come. We had <em>hundreds<\/em> of times together with Bible teaching, honesty, and honor. I would teach some robust theology or Bible for about an hour. Then we would have Walking in the Light for about 20 or 30 minutes, break up in twos, and we would go into 1 John, Chapter 1, verse 7: \u201cBut if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of God\u2019s Son cleanses us from all sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We would break up in twos; and one guy would say to the other, \u201cOkay, here is what isn\u2019t working in my life\u201d; and he would explain. The other guy would say, \u201cAlright; well, let\u2019s pray\u201d; and he would pray for that guy. Then they would turn it around: \u201cHere is what is not working <em>my<\/em> life; here is how <em>I<\/em> am not doing well\u201d; and the other guy would pray for him. Then we would have Honor Time because Romans 12:10 says, \u201cOutdo one another in showing honor.\u201d This is, as far as I know, the only competitive sport in the Bible. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cOutdo one another\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> \u201cOutdo one another in showing honor.\u201d So it\u2014and that was all of us together\u2014it was a great big group. Guys would say things, like, \u201cJim, last Thursday night, when I felt like looking at porn, I texted you. You called me right back, and you talked to me. We talked together for half an hour. You got me off the edge of that cliff. Dude, I honor you. Thank you for that.\u201d It was like popcorn going off; I\u2019d have to shut it down after a while. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo teaching of Scripture\u2014honesty, and honor\u2014<em>hundreds<\/em> of experiences like that. I just came to realize how <em>massive<\/em> this issue of sexuality and porn has become in this generation of young guys that I love <em>so much<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what do you think is happening? You and I grew up in a different generation; there wasn\u2019t the accessibility to porn like there is <em>now<\/em>. What do you see taking place? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> We\u2019re all under <em>tremendous<\/em> pressures right now at <em>multiple<\/em> levels, and our sexuality is one of the primary targets of temptation and corruption. It\u2019s no surprise because, you know, God is not having second thoughts about giving us sexuality. He created us like this; He\u2019s not wishing He could delete it. He\u2019s not sorry He made us this way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod\u2019s answer to the loss of sexual integrity is not to delete our sexuality, or even to suppress our sexuality, but to <em>redeem<\/em> our sexuality\/to give our sexuality back to us <em>better<\/em> than before. That is God\u2019s purpose\u2014almost <em>nobody<\/em> believes that\u2014I mean, you have to be a Christian to be crazy enough to believe God wants to do <em>that<\/em> in your life! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, so what does that mean? How does God want to <em>redeem<\/em> our sexuality? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Typically, it happens when we come to the end of ourselves. That\u2019s when we turn around and really great things start to happen\u2014when we stop posing; we stop hiding\u2014we come out into the light of the truth of who God is, and the truth of who we are, and we start talking about it in <em>real<\/em> confession. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I meet with TJ Tims and Sam Allberry\u2014TJ and Sam and I get together in my study, and our only purpose is to confess our sins to one another\u2014mutually transparently. Nobody gets coerced; nobody gets shamed; nobody is embarrassed or cornered. We don\u2019t like that; we object to that very strongly. Everyone is dignified. And we talk about our failings, and our shortcomings, and our weaknesses; and I <em>hate<\/em> it. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You don\u2019t look forward to that one; huh? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> No, I mean, it\u2019s very freeing; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> But in advance, when I know the guys are coming, I know that what I most need to tell them about is the very thing I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to tell them about. That\u2019s what I most need to confess, and they feel the same way. I\u2019m really struck that, when we get together, I keep telling them the same things. [Laughter] I thought I would be a better man by now, you know, after all these years, immersed in Scripture, and blessed by God, and so forth; but I\u2019m grateful that I have these two guys, whom I trust; and they are not dysfunctional enablers. They are serious men; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I can level with them. I can tell them about the real me, and they don\u2019t gasp in shock. Neither do they pat me on the shoulder and say, \u201cOh, there, there. <em>Everybody<\/em> does that.\u201d They treat me as a serious man, and they pray for me. It\u2019s freeing; it is burden-lifting, and I get some sparkle in my eye again. Now, there is not too much of that going around guys; that\u2019s got to go viral. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat if a movement caught on of men and women\u2014but my interest in this book is men\u2014of men getting together in that kind of transparency, on a regular basis, and looking each other in the eye\/being honest with each other, and praying for each other and then coming back the next week and doing the same thing again? All the indicators would move in the right direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As I picked up your book, <em>The Death of Porn<\/em>, that was what struck me immediately, which was very unique of all the books I\u2019ve read on this topic\u2014was this zeal you have to see a movement,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like you just said, of men\u2014and women can be involved\u2014but it\u2019s really a book for men. I resonate\/men, saying, \u201cWe\u2019re going to <em>stop<\/em> this; this <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> have to be the status quo,\u201d because we\u2019ve gotten to the point, where it\u2019s like, \u201cYes, porn is a big part of our life, and it\u2019s just never going to go away.\u201d You\u2019re saying, \u201cNo; there could be a movement that takes place\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes; I use the hashtag, #starvethebeast. It can\u2019t endure that; it\u2019s not as formidable as it appears. It is we, men\u2014and Christian men\u2014who are enabling it and supporting it. What if we didn\u2019t do that? I want to see a great awakening. Yes, I want to see a <em>great<\/em> movement of God in our generation. What if the next great awakening starts inside the porn industry? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> What if, ten years from now, the most captivating preachers of the gospel in this country are ex-porn stars? What if the best storytellers for the gospel are ex-porn videographers? What if the most generous philanthropists are ex-porn investors? The risen Jesus is well-able to do that; would we not love to see that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; well, it\u2019s interesting, I thought, because you compared the English slave trade\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to what we\u2019re going through now with the porn industry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you make that correlation? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, what if it were the year 1850? Slavery would be legal; it would be a profitable business. It would have the law on its side; it would have social convention and social approval on its side. It would be, indeed, an economic necessity. Many people would be involved in the slave business\u2014other people wouldn\u2019t like it\u2014but they would just accept it, and shrug their shoulders, and say, \u201cThat\u2019s just the way it is. It\u2019s not really right, but okay, these things happen.\u201d A few people would be liberators and abolitionists. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we look back on the Christians, who either participated in or did not speak up against the slave trade; and we <em>grieve<\/em> over them. We feel, rightly, they lost their historic opportunity. Now, it\u2019s our turn. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> And where are we going to take our stand? Are we going to be involved in the slave trade? Are we just going to passively accept it, and just look on from a distance; <em>or<\/em> are we going to stand up and say, \u201cFriends, this is just inhumane! We\u2019ve got to do all we can. Let\u2019s go set as many people free as we possibly can\u201d? It starts at the front-end with consumers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love what you said when you were talking to men. You said: \u201cOnce you\u2019ve settled in your mind that you do have a future worth getting excited about, then you can help form a rebel movement\u2014defiant, young men, who will someday dance on porn\u2019s grave\u2014multitudes of men no longer groveling but standing tall and loving life again; and all of it, thanks to God.\u201d That is a great dream. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I\u2019ll give my life to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How does it happen? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll tell you how it <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> happen, in my opinion. It <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> happen by flexing our political muscles and a big march on Washington. The phrase, commonly, is that: \u201cPolitics is downstream of culture, and culture is downstream of renewal in the church.\u201d We are the salt of the earth; we are the light of the world. If there isn\u2019t enough light, well, let\u2019s look at ourselves first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it starts in a counterintuitive, surprising way. It starts with us Christian men owning up\u2014not pointing the finger at the bad people creating the porn\u2014but turning around, and looking in the mirror, and looking at ourselves, and admitting our own complicity in this; and going to one another, and locking arms together to live in honesty, to live in transparency, to live in integrity, and give the rest of our lives to multiplying that safe place of integrity and confession, and to see that go viral. I have seen this at our church. I have seen a spirit of honest, gentle, non-shaming, non-pressuring honesty spread over a <em>whole<\/em> church. The truth of it: it feels like heaven on earth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s why you have 20- and 30-year-olds coming; because they are thinking, \u201cThis is a place where I can be honest and real, and I have hope,\u201d\u2014even what you talk about, in the beginning, telling men that they are royalty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think men believe that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> No; this world has <em>no idea<\/em> who these great guys really are. This world, every day, treats these magnificent young men as if they are part of some market niche or part of a voting bloc. In other words, it tells them, \u201cYou are a unit in some kind of social collectivity useful for somebody else\u2019s selfish grandiosity.\u201d Now, the world beats that into all of us, and into these young men and young women every day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, we\u2019re not taking that anymore. We open up the Bible, and we read on the first page of the Bible\u2014in Genesis, Chapter 1, for crying out loud\u2014that God created us in His image. The King of the universe has put us here in this world to represent His kingdom; He made us royalty. Now, we have added on layers of complication through our own sinfulness; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I love to look right in the face of a young guy\u201425, 30, 35 years old\u2014and say, \u201cNow, look, God created you that you are. That foundational baseline God created you that you are cannot not be. That <em>you<\/em> is <em>not<\/em> a problem; that <em>you<\/em> is a <em>strategy<\/em>. You\u2014with your individuality, your gift mix, your potential\u2014God created you as a living, breathing human strategy to bring His kingdom of royalty, and dignity, and healing, and hope into a world gone mad. That\u2019s who you actually are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen, by grace, we actually give ourselves permission to believe that\u2014even just a little bit\u2014we get some steel in our spine; we can live again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> read a book about porn and the struggle with porn that took the pathway you took\u2014starting with\u2014because even when I read your first chapter title, I saw: \u201cYou Are Royalty,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat is this?! I think I know where he is going\u201d; but I\u2019m like, \u201cReally?! That\u2019s where you are going to start?\u201d Then, as I read the chapter, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness! You <em>have<\/em> to start here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what happens to a man when he understands he\u2019s royalty, especially in his struggle with porn? And this happens to a woman as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Absolutely; well, we all know behavior modification just doesn\u2019t work; it doesn\u2019t change anything. Real change doesn\u2019t happen from the outside in; it happens from the inside out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> What\u2019s most important about us in this world is not what we <em>own<\/em> but what we <em>believe<\/em>. So we need to go back to page one of the Bible and dare to believe, again, in who we really are. Who God says we are is who we really are; [not] these false narratives that the world gives us, that we create for ourselves; including the narrative that says, \u201cI\u2019m so damaged,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m beyond repair,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m beyond redemption.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m hopeless.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes; so what we want to do is rise up, and let\u2019s give ourselves the permission to be <em>indignant<\/em> at that self-destroying lie. Let\u2019s give the devil a bad day; [Laughter] and dare to believe what God says about us when He says that: He cherishes us; He created us for greatness; He gave His very Son, because we matter that much to Him. Let\u2019s just <em>dare<\/em> to believe it and see what God will do with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got to believe the gospel;\u00a0 secondly, come together. Instead of flexing our muscles, and shouting at the world\u2014telling them how wrong <em>they<\/em> are and how they are ruining everything\u2014instead, we say, \u201cNo, here is how I\u2019m not doing well. I\u2019m <em>amazed<\/em> that God loves me at all. It\u2019s a <em>miracle<\/em> that here I am. Why don\u2019t you come join the miracle\/the miracle of grace?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And one of the most powerful things\u2014and I\u2019d love to hear your thoughts on this\u2014is when we understand we are royalty. But when a <em>community<\/em> of men\u2014or a community of women <em>or<\/em> men and women\u2014<em>together<\/em> understand our identity in Christ, what happens? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> You know, who helped me on that is Dietrich Bonhoeffer in his book, <em>Life Together<\/em>; he explains it there so clearly. I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> seen it so clearly that, when sin wants to have a man alone in isolation\/hiding, because then sin has got him. But when that man dares to believe that God is saying to him: \u201cLook, you don\u2019t have to come, clean yourself up first\u2014I don\u2019t want the prettified version of you\u2014I want you, the desperate sinner that you are. Now, come to Me as you are in all your mess.\u201d The truth of it is I think God is saying, \u201cActually, you are worse than you think. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> \u201cAnd I\u2019m <em>better<\/em> than you think; so why don\u2019t we get together?\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good; it\u2019s interesting too\u2014I\u2019ve had the opportunity, sometimes\u2014it\u2019s one of my favorite things to speak to high schoolers and people into their 20s. I recently had a chance to be with them; and then afterwards, just praying for them. As I\u2019ve gotten older\u2014and maybe\/and I see this in you too, Ray\u2014is I see the <em>greatness<\/em> in these kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So as I\u2019ve gotten older, I want to tell them, like, \u201cI <em>see<\/em> this greatness in you.\u201d I\u2019ve gotten into this habit of whatever I see\u2014when I see the good\u2014I\u2019m going to speak that into them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>As I do it\u2014like, I can say: \u201cMan, I see that you are so courageous,\u201d \u201cI can see that you are bold,\u201d and \u201cI see the tenacity of your faith,\u201d\u2014these people are <em>crying<\/em>. Tears are just streaming down their face, which I am surprised; and yet, I think, \u201cOh! We hear so many lies all day long from the culture, from the world, from the enemy, from our past pain\u2014that we are reeling in the lies of Satan\u2014I believe he uses all of that to continually condemn us. So when another follower of Christ says, \u2018I see who God has made you to be; I see the greatness in you,\u2019 they weep; because they forgot.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>love<\/em> that about you; I love that about what you write; and I love what you see in people. You see the magnificence\/the image-bearers that we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I love that that is how you start a book on porn. [Laughter] Seriously, it was like, \u201cWow! That is where it needs to start, reminding us who we are.\u201d Because if we\u2019re going to live out of our identity\u2014what we believe\/what you said\u2014is so important, because it dictates how we <em>behave<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If we don\u2019t believe that, we\u2019re going to behave like we\u2019re sinners rather than we are image-bearers that carry the image of God <em>in us<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cWe are royalty\u201d; that\u2019s a beautiful statement of <em>truth<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Anyone who has tried to do battle with lustful feelings that have led to pornography and has found themselves experiencing the shame and the guilt that comes with looking at porn realizes that shame and guilt are not sufficient motivators for us to be loosed from the bondage of lust. We need, as Ray Ortlund has said here, a higher calling. We need to be pointed to the nobility that is ours in Christ and to live out of that identity. <br><br>Ray writes about this in his book, <em>The Death of Porn<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to get your copy, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. This, by the way, is a <em>great<\/em> book for fathers and sons to go through together or for a men\u2019s group at church to work through together. Again, it is called <em>The Death of Porn<\/em> by Ray Ortlund. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy; or call us at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, there is a reason that we tackle these kinds of challenging issues here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; it\u2019s because our commitment is to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe godly marriages and families can change the world one home at a time. It\u2019s by taking these kinds of issues, head on, that we are able to help build strength and stability into marriages and help defeat some of the spiritual strongholds that are keeping husbands and wives from experiencing the oneness that is God\u2019s design for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll that we do here, at FamilyLife, is made possible by listeners, just like you, who have gone from being listeners only to being men and women, who say, \u201cThis mission\/this ministry matters, not just for me and my family, but for others in our community\/for others around the world.\u201d Those of you who step forward and support this ministry, either with a one-time gift or by becoming a monthly ministry partner, you make all that we do here, at FamilyLife, possible. We are <em>grateful<\/em> for your ongoing support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a copy of a book we talked about earlier this week, Sean McDowell\u2019s book, <em>Chasing Love<\/em>, that helps us think through the cultural confusion around issues related to sexuality and gender in our culture. Again, Sean\u2019s book is our gift to you when you make a donation today. You could do that easily online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We look forward to hearing from you, and we are <em>grateful<\/em> for your partnership with us in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Ray Ortlund is going to tackle what is at the root of a lot of the bondage to pornography that men are experiencing\u2014and women as well\u2014it\u2019s the issue of despair, a loss of hope. We\u2019ll hear more about that tomorrow; hope you can join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:49"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.55M"],"filesize_raw":["25741206"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307399.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307399.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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addiction can seem inescapable. But its power isn't unbreakable. Author Ray Ortlund helps replace pornography's dehumanizing lies with startling truth.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-10.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I want to see a <em>great<\/em> movement of God in our generation. What if, ten years from now, the most captivating preachers of the gospel in this country are ex-porn stars? What if the best storytellers for the gospel are ex-porn videographers? What if the most generous philanthropists are ex-porn investors? The risen Jesus is well-able to do that; would we not love to see that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m excited today. I\u2019ve never had a man in the studio who wrote the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019re right! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got one of the biblical writers\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in the studio. He is here! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No. And obviously, if you are listening, you are like, \u201cWhat in the world are you talking about?\u201d We\u2019ve got Ray Ortlund in the studio who\u2014you\u2019ve written many things\u2014but you are one of the cowriters of the ESV Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d rather say \u201ctranslators.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know; I know. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Ray. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Thank you. Great to be with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell us a little bit about yourself; because I know you\u2019re pastoring, sort of, now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Give us a little background. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, we planted Immanuel Church in Nashville, Tennessee, in 2008 and stayed there for a number of years\u2014just had a total <em>blast<\/em>\u2014I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> thankful that I ended my pastoral years on this upward trajectory of just <em>amazing<\/em> fun. We had such a great time; God really smiled on us. Eighty percent of the church are in their 20s and 30s; how did that happen? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014at your church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray: <\/strong>Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because you have a very young spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Oh, well, I don\u2019t know; but it\u2019s such a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe, now, are with Renewal Ministries, which is a nonprofit that my dear dad and mom handed down to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> We\u2019re under the board of RM, and we are having a <em>blast<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You have how many kids?\u2014grandkids? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Four kids\u2014all married\u2014and fourteen grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! Fourteen; are they near you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> No! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why did that happen, Ray? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I know; I know. We raised our kids to think for themselves, and then they went and did it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They do it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They left you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> The ingrates! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The ingrates. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe amazing thing is recently you released a book. I want to know if you thought you would release this your whole life, because it\u2019s called <em>The Death of Porn: Men of Integrity Building a World of Nobility<\/em>. Is this a life work? Is this something you saw yourself, ten years ago, writing? Or is this something that became a passion recently? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> More recently; because during those years at Immanuel Church, every Tuesday night, we had Immanuel Theology for Men. These <em>great<\/em> guys, in their 20s and 30s, for the most part, would come. We had <em>hundreds<\/em> of times together with Bible teaching, honesty, and honor. I would teach some robust theology or Bible for about an hour. Then we would have Walking in the Light for about 20 or 30 minutes, break up in twos, and we would go into 1 John, Chapter 1, verse 7: \u201cBut if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of God\u2019s Son cleanses us from all sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We would break up in twos; and one guy would say to the other, \u201cOkay, here is what isn\u2019t working in my life\u201d; and he would explain. The other guy would say, \u201cAlright; well, let\u2019s pray\u201d; and he would pray for that guy. Then they would turn it around: \u201cHere is what is not working <em>my<\/em> life; here is how <em>I<\/em> am not doing well\u201d; and the other guy would pray for him. Then we would have Honor Time because Romans 12:10 says, \u201cOutdo one another in showing honor.\u201d This is, as far as I know, the only competitive sport in the Bible. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cOutdo one another\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> \u201cOutdo one another in showing honor.\u201d So it\u2014and that was all of us together\u2014it was a great big group. Guys would say things, like, \u201cJim, last Thursday night, when I felt like looking at porn, I texted you. You called me right back, and you talked to me. We talked together for half an hour. You got me off the edge of that cliff. Dude, I honor you. Thank you for that.\u201d It was like popcorn going off; I\u2019d have to shut it down after a while. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo teaching of Scripture\u2014honesty, and honor\u2014<em>hundreds<\/em> of experiences like that. I just came to realize how <em>massive<\/em> this issue of sexuality and porn has become in this generation of young guys that I love <em>so much<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what do you think is happening? You and I grew up in a different generation; there wasn\u2019t the accessibility to porn like there is <em>now<\/em>. What do you see taking place? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> We\u2019re all under <em>tremendous<\/em> pressures right now at <em>multiple<\/em> levels, and our sexuality is one of the primary targets of temptation and corruption. It\u2019s no surprise because, you know, God is not having second thoughts about giving us sexuality. He created us like this; He\u2019s not wishing He could delete it. He\u2019s not sorry He made us this way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod\u2019s answer to the loss of sexual integrity is not to delete our sexuality, or even to suppress our sexuality, but to <em>redeem<\/em> our sexuality\/to give our sexuality back to us <em>better<\/em> than before. That is God\u2019s purpose\u2014almost <em>nobody<\/em> believes that\u2014I mean, you have to be a Christian to be crazy enough to believe God wants to do <em>that<\/em> in your life! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, so what does that mean? How does God want to <em>redeem<\/em> our sexuality? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Typically, it happens when we come to the end of ourselves. That\u2019s when we turn around and really great things start to happen\u2014when we stop posing; we stop hiding\u2014we come out into the light of the truth of who God is, and the truth of who we are, and we start talking about it in <em>real<\/em> confession. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I meet with TJ Tims and Sam Allberry\u2014TJ and Sam and I get together in my study, and our only purpose is to confess our sins to one another\u2014mutually transparently. Nobody gets coerced; nobody gets shamed; nobody is embarrassed or cornered. We don\u2019t like that; we object to that very strongly. Everyone is dignified. And we talk about our failings, and our shortcomings, and our weaknesses; and I <em>hate<\/em> it. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You don\u2019t look forward to that one; huh? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> No, I mean, it\u2019s very freeing; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> But in advance, when I know the guys are coming, I know that what I most need to tell them about is the very thing I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to tell them about. That\u2019s what I most need to confess, and they feel the same way. I\u2019m really struck that, when we get together, I keep telling them the same things. [Laughter] I thought I would be a better man by now, you know, after all these years, immersed in Scripture, and blessed by God, and so forth; but I\u2019m grateful that I have these two guys, whom I trust; and they are not dysfunctional enablers. They are serious men; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I can level with them. I can tell them about the real me, and they don\u2019t gasp in shock. Neither do they pat me on the shoulder and say, \u201cOh, there, there. <em>Everybody<\/em> does that.\u201d They treat me as a serious man, and they pray for me. It\u2019s freeing; it is burden-lifting, and I get some sparkle in my eye again. Now, there is not too much of that going around guys; that\u2019s got to go viral. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat if a movement caught on of men and women\u2014but my interest in this book is men\u2014of men getting together in that kind of transparency, on a regular basis, and looking each other in the eye\/being honest with each other, and praying for each other and then coming back the next week and doing the same thing again? All the indicators would move in the right direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As I picked up your book, <em>The Death of Porn<\/em>, that was what struck me immediately, which was very unique of all the books I\u2019ve read on this topic\u2014was this zeal you have to see a movement,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like you just said, of men\u2014and women can be involved\u2014but it\u2019s really a book for men. I resonate\/men, saying, \u201cWe\u2019re going to <em>stop<\/em> this; this <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> have to be the status quo,\u201d because we\u2019ve gotten to the point, where it\u2019s like, \u201cYes, porn is a big part of our life, and it\u2019s just never going to go away.\u201d You\u2019re saying, \u201cNo; there could be a movement that takes place\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes; I use the hashtag, #starvethebeast. It can\u2019t endure that; it\u2019s not as formidable as it appears. It is we, men\u2014and Christian men\u2014who are enabling it and supporting it. What if we didn\u2019t do that? I want to see a great awakening. Yes, I want to see a <em>great<\/em> movement of God in our generation. What if the next great awakening starts inside the porn industry? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> What if, ten years from now, the most captivating preachers of the gospel in this country are ex-porn stars? What if the best storytellers for the gospel are ex-porn videographers? What if the most generous philanthropists are ex-porn investors? The risen Jesus is well-able to do that; would we not love to see that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; well, it\u2019s interesting, I thought, because you compared the English slave trade\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to what we\u2019re going through now with the porn industry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you make that correlation? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, what if it were the year 1850? Slavery would be legal; it would be a profitable business. It would have the law on its side; it would have social convention and social approval on its side. It would be, indeed, an economic necessity. Many people would be involved in the slave business\u2014other people wouldn\u2019t like it\u2014but they would just accept it, and shrug their shoulders, and say, \u201cThat\u2019s just the way it is. It\u2019s not really right, but okay, these things happen.\u201d A few people would be liberators and abolitionists. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we look back on the Christians, who either participated in or did not speak up against the slave trade; and we <em>grieve<\/em> over them. We feel, rightly, they lost their historic opportunity. Now, it\u2019s our turn. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> And where are we going to take our stand? Are we going to be involved in the slave trade? Are we just going to passively accept it, and just look on from a distance; <em>or<\/em> are we going to stand up and say, \u201cFriends, this is just inhumane! We\u2019ve got to do all we can. Let\u2019s go set as many people free as we possibly can\u201d? It starts at the front-end with consumers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love what you said when you were talking to men. You said: \u201cOnce you\u2019ve settled in your mind that you do have a future worth getting excited about, then you can help form a rebel movement\u2014defiant, young men, who will someday dance on porn\u2019s grave\u2014multitudes of men no longer groveling but standing tall and loving life again; and all of it, thanks to God.\u201d That is a great dream. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> I\u2019ll give my life to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How does it happen? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll tell you how it <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> happen, in my opinion. It <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> happen by flexing our political muscles and a big march on Washington. The phrase, commonly, is that: \u201cPolitics is downstream of culture, and culture is downstream of renewal in the church.\u201d We are the salt of the earth; we are the light of the world. If there isn\u2019t enough light, well, let\u2019s look at ourselves first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it starts in a counterintuitive, surprising way. It starts with us Christian men owning up\u2014not pointing the finger at the bad people creating the porn\u2014but turning around, and looking in the mirror, and looking at ourselves, and admitting our own complicity in this; and going to one another, and locking arms together to live in honesty, to live in transparency, to live in integrity, and give the rest of our lives to multiplying that safe place of integrity and confession, and to see that go viral. I have seen this at our church. I have seen a spirit of honest, gentle, non-shaming, non-pressuring honesty spread over a <em>whole<\/em> church. The truth of it: it feels like heaven on earth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s why you have 20- and 30-year-olds coming; because they are thinking, \u201cThis is a place where I can be honest and real, and I have hope,\u201d\u2014even what you talk about, in the beginning, telling men that they are royalty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think men believe that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> No; this world has <em>no idea<\/em> who these great guys really are. This world, every day, treats these magnificent young men as if they are part of some market niche or part of a voting bloc. In other words, it tells them, \u201cYou are a unit in some kind of social collectivity useful for somebody else\u2019s selfish grandiosity.\u201d Now, the world beats that into all of us, and into these young men and young women every day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, we\u2019re not taking that anymore. We open up the Bible, and we read on the first page of the Bible\u2014in Genesis, Chapter 1, for crying out loud\u2014that God created us in His image. The King of the universe has put us here in this world to represent His kingdom; He made us royalty. Now, we have added on layers of complication through our own sinfulness; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I love to look right in the face of a young guy\u201425, 30, 35 years old\u2014and say, \u201cNow, look, God created you that you are. That foundational baseline God created you that you are cannot not be. That <em>you<\/em> is <em>not<\/em> a problem; that <em>you<\/em> is a <em>strategy<\/em>. You\u2014with your individuality, your gift mix, your potential\u2014God created you as a living, breathing human strategy to bring His kingdom of royalty, and dignity, and healing, and hope into a world gone mad. That\u2019s who you actually are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen, by grace, we actually give ourselves permission to believe that\u2014even just a little bit\u2014we get some steel in our spine; we can live again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> read a book about porn and the struggle with porn that took the pathway you took\u2014starting with\u2014because even when I read your first chapter title, I saw: \u201cYou Are Royalty,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat is this?! I think I know where he is going\u201d; but I\u2019m like, \u201cReally?! That\u2019s where you are going to start?\u201d Then, as I read the chapter, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness! You <em>have<\/em> to start here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what happens to a man when he understands he\u2019s royalty, especially in his struggle with porn? And this happens to a woman as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Absolutely; well, we all know behavior modification just doesn\u2019t work; it doesn\u2019t change anything. Real change doesn\u2019t happen from the outside in; it happens from the inside out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> What\u2019s most important about us in this world is not what we <em>own<\/em> but what we <em>believe<\/em>. So we need to go back to page one of the Bible and dare to believe, again, in who we really are. Who God says we are is who we really are; [not] these false narratives that the world gives us, that we create for ourselves; including the narrative that says, \u201cI\u2019m so damaged,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m beyond repair,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m beyond redemption.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m hopeless.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Yes; so what we want to do is rise up, and let\u2019s give ourselves the permission to be <em>indignant<\/em> at that self-destroying lie. Let\u2019s give the devil a bad day; [Laughter] and dare to believe what God says about us when He says that: He cherishes us; He created us for greatness; He gave His very Son, because we matter that much to Him. Let\u2019s just <em>dare<\/em> to believe it and see what God will do with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got to believe the gospel;\u00a0 secondly, come together. Instead of flexing our muscles, and shouting at the world\u2014telling them how wrong <em>they<\/em> are and how they are ruining everything\u2014instead, we say, \u201cNo, here is how I\u2019m not doing well. I\u2019m <em>amazed<\/em> that God loves me at all. It\u2019s a <em>miracle<\/em> that here I am. Why don\u2019t you come join the miracle\/the miracle of grace?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And one of the most powerful things\u2014and I\u2019d love to hear your thoughts on this\u2014is when we understand we are royalty. But when a <em>community<\/em> of men\u2014or a community of women <em>or<\/em> men and women\u2014<em>together<\/em> understand our identity in Christ, what happens? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> You know, who helped me on that is Dietrich Bonhoeffer in his book, <em>Life Together<\/em>; he explains it there so clearly. I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> seen it so clearly that, when sin wants to have a man alone in isolation\/hiding, because then sin has got him. But when that man dares to believe that God is saying to him: \u201cLook, you don\u2019t have to come, clean yourself up first\u2014I don\u2019t want the prettified version of you\u2014I want you, the desperate sinner that you are. Now, come to Me as you are in all your mess.\u201d The truth of it is I think God is saying, \u201cActually, you are worse than you think. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> \u201cAnd I\u2019m <em>better<\/em> than you think; so why don\u2019t we get together?\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good; it\u2019s interesting too\u2014I\u2019ve had the opportunity, sometimes\u2014it\u2019s one of my favorite things to speak to high schoolers and people into their 20s. I recently had a chance to be with them; and then afterwards, just praying for them. As I\u2019ve gotten older\u2014and maybe\/and I see this in you too, Ray\u2014is I see the <em>greatness<\/em> in these kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So as I\u2019ve gotten older, I want to tell them, like, \u201cI <em>see<\/em> this greatness in you.\u201d I\u2019ve gotten into this habit of whatever I see\u2014when I see the good\u2014I\u2019m going to speak that into them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>As I do it\u2014like, I can say: \u201cMan, I see that you are so courageous,\u201d \u201cI can see that you are bold,\u201d and \u201cI see the tenacity of your faith,\u201d\u2014these people are <em>crying<\/em>. Tears are just streaming down their face, which I am surprised; and yet, I think, \u201cOh! We hear so many lies all day long from the culture, from the world, from the enemy, from our past pain\u2014that we are reeling in the lies of Satan\u2014I believe he uses all of that to continually condemn us. So when another follower of Christ says, \u2018I see who God has made you to be; I see the greatness in you,\u2019 they weep; because they forgot.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>love<\/em> that about you; I love that about what you write; and I love what you see in people. You see the magnificence\/the image-bearers that we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I love that that is how you start a book on porn. [Laughter] Seriously, it was like, \u201cWow! That is where it needs to start, reminding us who we are.\u201d Because if we\u2019re going to live out of our identity\u2014what we believe\/what you said\u2014is so important, because it dictates how we <em>behave<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ray:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If we don\u2019t believe that, we\u2019re going to behave like we\u2019re sinners rather than we are image-bearers that carry the image of God <em>in us<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cWe are royalty\u201d; that\u2019s a beautiful statement of <em>truth<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Anyone who has tried to do battle with lustful feelings that have led to pornography and has found themselves experiencing the shame and the guilt that comes with looking at porn realizes that shame and guilt are not sufficient motivators for us to be loosed from the bondage of lust. We need, as Ray Ortlund has said here, a higher calling. We need to be pointed to the nobility that is ours in Christ and to live out of that identity. <br><br>Ray writes about this in his book, <em>The Death of Porn<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to get your copy, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. This, by the way, is a <em>great<\/em> book for fathers and sons to go through together or for a men\u2019s group at church to work through together. Again, it is called <em>The Death of Porn<\/em> by Ray Ortlund. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy; or call us at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, there is a reason that we tackle these kinds of challenging issues here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; it\u2019s because our commitment is to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe godly marriages and families can change the world one home at a time. It\u2019s by taking these kinds of issues, head on, that we are able to help build strength and stability into marriages and help defeat some of the spiritual strongholds that are keeping husbands and wives from experiencing the oneness that is God\u2019s design for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll that we do here, at FamilyLife, is made possible by listeners, just like you, who have gone from being listeners only to being men and women, who say, \u201cThis mission\/this ministry matters, not just for me and my family, but for others in our community\/for others around the world.\u201d Those of you who step forward and support this ministry, either with a one-time gift or by becoming a monthly ministry partner, you make all that we do here, at FamilyLife, possible. We are <em>grateful<\/em> for your ongoing support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a copy of a book we talked about earlier this week, Sean McDowell\u2019s book, <em>Chasing Love<\/em>, that helps us think through the cultural confusion around issues related to sexuality and gender in our culture. Again, Sean\u2019s book is our gift to you when you make a donation today. You could do that easily online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We look forward to hearing from you, and we are <em>grateful<\/em> for your partnership with us in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Ray Ortlund is going to tackle what is at the root of a lot of the bondage to pornography that men are experiencing\u2014and women as well\u2014it\u2019s the issue of despair, a loss of hope. We\u2019ll hear more about that tomorrow; hope you can join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/307399","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=307399"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=307399"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=307399"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=307399"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=307399"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=307399"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=307399"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}