{"id":307397,"date":"2022-02-08T08:02:10","date_gmt":"2022-02-08T13:02:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/when-is-it-okay-to-have-sex\/"},"modified":"2025-01-08T15:38:43","modified_gmt":"2025-01-08T20:38:43","slug":"when-is-it-okay-to-have-sex","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-is-it-okay-to-have-sex\/","title":{"rendered":"When Is It Okay To Have Sex?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When is it okay to have sex? Author Sean McDowell gives the critical need-to-know about when to have sex &#8212; and avoid destruction and regret.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When is it okay to have sex? Author Sean McDowell gives the critical need-to-know about when to have sex\u00e2\u20ac&#8221;and avoid destruction and regret.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:13","filesize":"27.66M","filesize_raw":"29008733","date_recorded":"2022-02-08 08:02:10","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2815],"tags":[7035,7033],"podcast_series":[8502],"cwp_profile":[9849],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307397","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-sexual-wholeness","tag-gods-design","tag-when-is-it-ok-to-have-sex","podcast_series-chasing-love","cwp_profile-dr-sean-mcdowell","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307397\/when-is-it-okay-to-have-sex","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307397\/when-is-it-okay-to-have-sex","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"frFFIlFi6c\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-is-it-okay-to-have-sex\/\">When Is It Okay To Have Sex?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-is-it-okay-to-have-sex\/embed\/#?secret=frFFIlFi6c\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;When Is It Okay To Have Sex?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"frFFIlFi6c\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So question for you: \u201cIf you could go back to your teenage years,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and I knew you then, but I was so much older and mature; [Laughter] three years older\u2014but you know, in high school, you think you\u2019re not even <em>ever<\/em> going to date somebody that much younger. So go back to like 13; maybe 14\/15 years old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> There was no internet then.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But if there was, and you were going to Google<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> like a question\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like, \u201cI\u2019ve <em>got to <\/em>get an answer to this!\u201d\u2014I\u2019m just wondering what that question would be for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home; so my first question, especially at that age, would have been: \u201cWhen am I ready?\u201d or \u201cWhen is it okay to have sex?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting. While you were sitting in bed last night, and I had my laptop out, I googled that question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, you googled it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cI bet a lot of teenagers are asking that question.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> So I just typed in\u2014which I was thinking later\u2014\u201cThis is going to look weird on my history! [Laughter]\u2019\u201cHow can I know if I\u2019m ready to have sex?\u2019\u201d Do you want to hear the answer?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> First thing that came up\u2014and I did it four different times; and every time, this was the very first\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014number one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the number-one hit was: \u201cDeciding if you\u2019re ready to have sex is a big decision that\u2019s very personal. It\u2019s important to think it through and wait until you\u2019re sure you\u2019re ready.\u201d And then it goes on: \u201cHow do I know when I\u2019m ready to have sex? Deciding to have sex is a big deal. It\u2019s a big decision that only you can make. A healthy sex life fits in with everything that you\u2019re about, including your personal values, your school and career goals, the emotional and physical risks you\u2019re willing to take. Think about if having sex is something you really want to do or something you\u2019re being pressured to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m not going to read you the rest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But guess where that comes from?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> No idea.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Planned Parenthood.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Interesting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the number-one site you\u2019re going to get an answer to that question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So based on what you read, what would a teenager think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think you would think, \u201cOh, it\u2019s really up to me. Maybe I\u2019ll talk to my parents,\u201d\u2014no!\u2014\u201cI\u2019ll talk to my friends, and I think they\u2019re going to agree with me I\u2019m probably ready.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, again, it\u2019s just a nebulous answer that needs some help. So let\u2019s bring somebody in the studio to help us get a <em>better<\/em> answer to that question. We have Sean McDowell back with us\u2014<em>Dr<\/em>. Sean McDowell\u2014[Laughter] You know, he\u2019s written a book called <em>Chasing Love, <\/em>which we\u2019ve already had some discussion about; but it\u2019s perfect, because it\u2019s <em>Sex, Love and Relationships in a Confused Culture.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Sean, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Parents, I\u2019m just going to say, \u201cYou need to get this book.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s a workbook with it. Who would go through the workbook? Is this just teens alone?\u2014in a group? Would parents do it <em>with<\/em> their teens?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, the workbook comes along with a nine-part teaching series that I taught by video, 10-12 minutes kind of explaining some of the key ideas. I\u2019ve had youth groups go through it and contact me. I\u2019ve had parents just take kids through it individually; some homeschool groups have used it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, which is great! You know, you deal almost every day\u2014right?\u2014at Talbot School of Theology and at Biola; and you also teach at a local high school. So you\u2019re dealing with young people\u2019s questions all the time. I\u2019m guessing you\u2019ve heard the question I googled last night: \u201cHow do I know when I\u2019m ready to have sex?\u201d Obviously, you have a whole section on this question in the book. How would you answer that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d probably answer it differently to a non-Christian than I would to a Christian.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh, let\u2019s hear <em>both<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> So if a non-Christian asks me that, I will probably say, \u201cSo questions you make about sexuality are tied to who you are and the kind of person you want to become; because having sex with somebody is the one thing you do that brings a human life into existence. Do you agree that it\u2019s a big deal?\u201d \u201cYes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSo what do you think it means to love? What is loving somebody?\u201d I might ask this question\/I\u2019d say, \u201cOkay, do you want to get married someday?\u201d I would start, sort of with the end in mind. Most young people would still say, \u201cYes.\u201d I\u2019d say, \u201cOkay, what do you want that marriage to be like? Do you want that person to be <em>faithful<\/em> to you? Do you want that person to have had sex with a lot of people before they\u2019re with you?\u201d I think I would just start with a vision of the kind of person they want to become, and then help them think through [how] sexuality plays into that role.<\/p>\n<p>And of course, if a non-Christian was open to it, I would quickly bring it to God and say, \u201cYou know, really, this is a question about: \u201cIs there a God and a designer for your life? The fact that you\u2019re asking this question, you realize a lot is at stake; and you can\u2019t really answer this question without having some assumption about: \u2018If there\u2019s a God and how He wants us to live. So have you thought about the questions?\u2019\u201d\u2014that\u2019s probably the route that I would go if a non-Christian asked me that.<\/p>\n<p>The problem with that piece by Planned Parenthood\u2014and I did <em>all<\/em> of those searches when I was writing this book; and I <em>knew<\/em> when you asked that question\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You did??<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Oh, yes! I talk about it a little bit in the book itself. They started this new short answer thing by Planned Parenthood, where they\u2019ve targeted all the questions kids will type into Google, and then it sends it to Planned Parenthood\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014about sexuality. So I knew that\u2019s where it was going. This is a subjective kind of question that, basically, is summed up in: \u201cIf you feel ready, you\u2019re ready.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> So there\u2019s no <em>moral <\/em>component to that; there\u2019s no obligation to somebody else. It\u2019s all about how you feel, which is exactly what a young person wants to hear!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> If a Christian asks me that, and they said, you know, \u201cWhen do I know when I\u2019m ready to have sex or not?\u201d I would say, \u201cOkay, let me ask you a question: \u2018Are you a follower of Jesus Christ? What did <em>Jesus<\/em> say about what it takes to be ready?\u2019\u201d They might not know the exact answer. [Laughter] But they would probably say, \u201cWell, I guess He\u2019d say you\u2019re ready when you\u2019re married.\u201d I would say, \u201cThe Scriptures say God designed sex for one man and one woman, who become one flesh for one lifetime. So your feelings are actually <em>irrelevant<\/em> to whether you\u2019re ready or not.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would have said, at that time, \u201cBut that\u2019s <em>dumb<\/em>! Why would God <em>say<\/em> that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> She would have said that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I would have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014to the Christian answer?\u2014or like you could push back; we can role play if you wanted to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, to either, like, \u201cThat\u2019s <em>dumb<\/em>. It feels like God\u2019s given us these desires. Why would we wait?\u201d and \u201cWhy would God say, \u2018No\u2019?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u201cHave you ever thought about how, if God has given us these desires, like you said\u2014and they are strong, good, beautiful desires\u2014that maybe He knows something you and I don\u2019t know and has a better plan for it? Has that ever gone through your mind?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBecause God could have said like a guy and a girl like pinky swear, and a kid pops out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u201cHe could have made sex a <em>chore<\/em>, but He didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAnd you <em>admitted<\/em> God is the One who designed this\u2014so if He\u2019s all knowing, and He gave us these <em>strong<\/em> desires and this amazingly beautiful thing called sex\u2014has it ever crossed your mind that maybe He knows what\u2019s best for you and what\u2019s best for me in terms of how we experience it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good! I love, in the book, that you said, \u201cHave you ever imagined what the world would look like if everyone lived the sexual ethic of Jesus? Would the world be better or worse?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a <em>powerful <\/em>statement in the book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; talk about that a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That is one of my <em>favorite<\/em> questions to ask young people. I\u2019ll ask young people, who are not Christians, by the way, to get <em>them<\/em> to think about this as well. Of course, sometimes you have to clarify what Jesus\u2019s sexual ethic was. Essentially, it was there are two ways to love God and honor people in marriage and in singleness: if you\u2019re married, it\u2019s one man, one woman, one flesh, one lifetime.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll simply ask students\/I\u2019ll say, \u201cImagine everybody embraced that. Would the world be better? Would it be the same? Or would it be worse? Let\u2019s start to write on the board what we think the answers are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ah, you\u2019re such a good teacher! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> You\u2019re kind! But students start:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>You know, a student will go, \u201cOkay, I guess there would be no divorce. Kids would have a mom and dad.\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s right, because Jesus said that marriage is permanent.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Then some kid will say, \u201cWell, I guess there\u2019d be no sex abuse, because Jesus talked about <em>loving<\/em> your neighbor,\u201d\u2014was a part of the sexual ethic.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Then some kid will say, \u201cI guess there\u2019d be no pornography or victims of pornography.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>\u201cI guess there\u2019d be no sexually-transmitted diseases.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>\u201cThere\u2019d be no dead-beat dads, you know, leaving their wife for a trophy wife.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>\u201cThere\u2019d be no crude sexual humor.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>On and on, it starts to dawn on students: \u201cOkay, wait a minute. The rules that Jesus gave are not to control us. He\u2019s not some big cosmic killjoy, as some people say. It\u2019s actually for human flourishing; it\u2019s for our best.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s why I\u2019ll take you back, and I\u2019ll say, \u201cThat\u2019s why David says, in Psalm 19, he rejoices in the law of the Lord. It\u2019s, actually, the law\u2014now, David had a hard time <em>following<\/em> it\u2014but when he was <em>inspired<\/em>, he <em>knew<\/em> that God\u2019s laws brought freedom. That\u2019s why Moses writes in Deuteronomy 10\/he says: \u201cLove the Lord your God with your heart, your soul, your mind, and your strength and follow these commandments which I am giving you for your good.\u201d They\u2019re, objectively, for our good.<\/p>\n<p>So what the two of you were talking about a minute ago is: kids will not really start to sacrifice following their feelings and urges until they have a <em>bigger<\/em> vision of what marriage and relationships should be like. That\u2019s why, as an athlete\u2014all of us who are athletes in different capacities\u2014you <em>suffer<\/em> for something when you have a <em>bigger<\/em> goal.<\/p>\n<p>Part of what the church has done is said: \u201cSex is bad; don\u2019t do that.\u201d And we haven\u2019t given kids a vision of: \u201cNo, here\u2019s why marriage is beautiful\u2026\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s why biblical love is the greatest experience you can have.\u201d Then, when they have a bigger vision for it, it oftentimes gives them the strength to resist some of the lies and temptations in the culture in which we live.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, take us into your home. How do you teach these kinds of things to your kids? I can see it in the classroom; I can see it on the board.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And when does it start?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I would <em>love<\/em> to know how you did that. Sort of model for parents: \u201cHow do we talk about these kinds of things with our kids? What age? What kind of topic?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Sex ed starts the moment a kid comes out of a womb. I mean, think about it: the way you touch a baby, even appropriately, is [teaching] them to become comfortable with their body\u2014affectionate touch, the tone that we use, the way you treat somebody of the opposite sex\u2014kids are learning from day one.<\/p>\n<p>Now, how we have conversation varies. We\u2019re driving in the car\u2014and my son, who is eight\u2014my daughter made a statement, because she\u2019s 14; and they were having a discussion about abortion. She said something; and Shane goes, \u201c<em>Dad<\/em>, what\u2019s abortion?\u201d I think a lot of parents would say, \u201cOh, don\u2019t ask! I can\u2019t believe it.\u201d My dad had trained me: \u201cHere\u2019s an opportunity.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So in my mind, I\u2019m like, \u201cHow do I explain this in a way that\u2019s appropriate to an eight-year-old?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, buddy, abortion is one of the great tragedies of our day.\u201d I said, \u201cMany women, for different reason, sometimes decide they don\u2019t want to keep and deliver the baby that\u2019s inside of them.\u201d \u201cDad! Why would they do that?\u201d I said, \u201cWell\u2026\u201d; I walked through three or four different scenarios.<\/p>\n<p>He goes, \u201cHow do they do an abortion?\u201d My wife is like, \u201cDon\u2019t explain it!\u201d [Laughter] Inside, I was like, \u201cI\u2019m the dad, so I err on the side of going, \u2018Well, you\u2019ve seen Superhero movies, where people die. You\u2019ve seen that okay? You\u2019ve seen people killed.\u2019\u201d I said, \u201cWell, sometimes that happens to the unborn; but keep in mind, they can\u2019t protect themselves; they\u2019re inside a mother. It\u2019s a human being, so it\u2019s a tragedy.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe have to have so much compassion for these moms, who feel like that\u2019s the choice\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s good to say that too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthey have to make. But buddy, that\u2019s a human being we\u2019ve got to protect too.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then he was like, \u201cOkay; can we watch this when we get home?\u201d [Laughter] Like you get these <em>moments<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> So the <em>main<\/em> way I try to teach it is just\u2014sometimes I pause the TV; I don\u2019t do it too much, because it will drive my kids nuts\u2014but we were watching <em>The Flash<\/em> TV show. I\u2019ll pause it, now and then, and go, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ve just got to say something.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cDad! Whatever.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cI know! But listen; okay? We\u2019ll keep watching it.\u201d [Conversations can be] Over the dinner table sometimes; when we\u2019re driving. I just look to have consistent, regular conversations with my kids about these things; because that\u2019s where I think truth is really passed on, in conversation. I\u2019m <em>looking<\/em> for opportunities to arise.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of people, when those opportunities come up about sex, they want to divert it the other direction. I\u2019m like, \u201cGreat! You\u2019re interested? Let\u2019s talk about it. What does this mean? What are we afraid of?\u201d Part of what that does is just show kids: \u201cGod designed your body. Our worldview applies to this. We\u2019re not ashamed of this; this is a good, beautiful, okay thing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And if you don\u2019t know the answer, you just go, \u201cThat\u2019s a really good [question]. Can you give your dad some time to think about this and come back to you, because I want to give you an answer that\u2019s helpful?\u201d Every kid is going to be like, \u201cThat\u2019s fine.\u201d And then you think about it. I\u2019ve called my dad a couple times; [Laughter] I\u2019m like, \u201cDad! Wait a minute; help me out with this!\u201d [Laughter] And then I go back to my <em>kids<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s just a part of the process: but you\u2019ve got to be intentional; you\u2019ve got to be consistent; you\u2019ve got to model it with your kids; and you\u2019ve just got to ask a lot of questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did your conversations change a little bit as your kids got older? Because ours did. I think, before they were 12, we were kind of instructing, teaching, talking\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and then, when they became teenagers, we started asking them a lot more questions. Did you do some of that, or were you always <em>asking<\/em>?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I\u2019ve always been a question-asker.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I <em>encourage<\/em> my kids to ask questions. One of the things I say to my son\u2014because he\u2019s eight now\u2014as I tuck him in; whenever I remember, I\u2019ll say, \u201cYou know, buddy, you can ask your dad <em>anything<\/em>.\u201d Studies show kids\/a big reason kids leave their faith is <em>not<\/em> doubt; it\u2019s <em>unexpressed<\/em> doubt. I want my kids to feel free: \u201cAsk questions; I\u2019m not afraid of this. I invite this: \u2018Let\u2019s have a conversation about issues of sexuality as well.\u2019\u201d I\u2019ve always kind of invited that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> But things are pretty black and white until the age you said\u2014about, you know, like with seventh graders, it\u2019s like: \u201cIf you believe this, you\u2019re dumb,\u201d \u201cIf you believe that, you\u2019re smart,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it\u2019s like [that].<\/p>\n<p>And then they start learning abstract thinking. As you move to 12, 13, 14, or 15, you can have the more sophisticated conversations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> If they push back <em>against<\/em> what you\u2019re teaching them, or they start <em>living<\/em> differently than what you\u2019re teaching and hoping they\u2019ll do, how does a parent respond?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Well, that depends on <em>how<\/em> they push back; because there\u2019s a kind of pushback that\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m being rude, and rebellious, and pushing back out of disrespect,\u201d or a kind of pushback that\u2019s like, \u201cYou know, I just don\u2019t know that I buy that, and here\u2019s why\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I mean, I\u2019ve had conversations with my kids that I\u2019ve had to apologize for. It didn\u2019t go the way I wanted it to, for sure; but I haven\u2019t had them push back rebelliously and angrily. Some of that is because of the relationship that we have. But I\u2019ve certainly had my son and my daughter, you know, say things like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I see it that way.\u201d I\u2019ll go, \u201cOkay, tell me about that; I\u2019m really curious.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, oftentimes, I\u2019ll just ask a lot of questions. My daughter is like, \u201cWhat\u2019s the point?\u201d I mean, she bought me a mug recently that says, \u201cI don\u2019t need Google; my dad knows everything.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s great!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I think it was a compliment. That\u2019s how I\u2019m going to take it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It <em>is <\/em>a compliment! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> But she\u2019s like, \u201cI can\u2019t even argue anything with you!\u201d I said, \u201cI\u2019m not trying to <em>argue<\/em> with you. I want to know what you think, and I\u2019m just asking you questions so we can have a conversation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I have to <em>moderate<\/em> these things, because I don\u2019t want to go into debate mode. I just remind myself\/I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay; it\u2019s okay if you differ from me; but know <em>why<\/em>, and let\u2019s make sure it lines up with Scripture.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you know, hearing you answer that reminds me of the last time you were on. We asked you about your rejection of sort of the faith.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were going on a journey\u2014and how your dad responded\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I remember from that conversation too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014it sounds similar.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Talk about that a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it sounds like you\u2019re doing a very similar thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> You know, look, I get to interact with a lot of atheists, and skeptics, and ex-Christians. Over and over again, you hear a common story of a lot of hurt; or just this fundamentalist background, that doubt was terrible, and \u201cIf you question things, it would damage our relationship.\u201d Not every time\u2014but <em>many<\/em> times\u2014you hear that.<\/p>\n<p>My dad, as much of an apologist and conservative as he is, went out of his way to communicate to us that his love for us was not dependent <em>whatsoever<\/em> on what we believed. This time that you\u2019re referring to\u2014I think I was 19 years old\u2014and just told my dad I wasn\u2019t sure that I was convinced that Christianity is true.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m sure many people listening know he\u2019s written 150 books and spoken to tens of millions of people, defending the Christian faith; and his son is like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m not sure I\u2019m convinced.\u201d He didn\u2019t freak out. He just was like\/essentially, goes, \u201cSon, that\u2019s great. You can\u2019t live off what I think is true. You\u2019ve got to know for <em>yourself<\/em> what you think is true. Your mom and I are going to love you no matter what.\u201d And that just <em>deflates <\/em>so much of the concern and the anxiety that kids have.<\/p>\n<p>I try to do that with my kids. You know, my kids have said stuff at times, like: \u201cWhat if I believe <em>this<\/em>?\u201dor \u201c\u2026did <em>that<\/em>?!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014almost like they\u2019re testing me\u2014and I\u2019ll just say, \u201cYou <em>know <\/em>that would <em>never<\/em> change my love for you. That\u2019s silly! Come on,\u201d\u2014almost in jest like that\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014to make sure they <em>know<\/em> that that relationship would <em>never<\/em> change.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so good. I know that we\u2019ve written a book called <em>No Perfect Parents. <\/em>In the book\u2014<\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, I just pulled it up!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes; we had our adult sons, at the end of some of the chapters, write in terms of like, \u201cJust tell us, in your words,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cTell the reader.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwhat worked? Tell the reader what worked and what didn\u2019t work,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014 or \u201c\u2026what you appreciated or wish your parents would have changed.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was pretty interesting, you know, when we got their manuscripts back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m sure!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> When we went through\u2014we didn\u2019t tell them [what to write]\u2014\u201cYou write anything you want! If we were <em>horrible, <\/em>write it\u201d; you know? Our oldest son, who is always a thinker; he\u2019s an engineering brain\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014analytical.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014very analytical\u2014always had questions, from day one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I just pulled it up, and I thought, \u201cI want to make sure I get this right.\u201d You know, he\u2019s the first one who wrote\u2014and it\u2019s just reflections\u2014and he said, \u201cI probably would have become an atheist if you had shut down my questioning of things like young earth creationism when I was in high school and college.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Wow! Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know that!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we didn\u2019t know it until [this].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cWow!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it was such a beautiful thing to read. I do remember many conversations\u2014but even that specific one\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cWow, great question. There are several different opinions on that. Here are...\u201d; you know?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> He was the one\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Never knowing that it could have pushed him away if I had been the dad, who said, \u201cYou can\u2019t question; you can\u2019t doubt. You\u2019re a pastor\u2019s son; this is how it goes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was so interesting\u2014when he was maybe four, I think, you know, we were reading the Bible or telling Bible stories\u2014this one night, before he was going to sleep, he says, \u201cMom, wait a minute! So doesn\u2019t it say that we aren\u2019t allowed to murder or kill in the Ten Commandments?\u201d I said, \u201cYes, that is true.\u201d He goes, \u201cSo we just read tonight about David chopping off Goliath\u2019s head. [Laughter] That\u2019s okay?! Why is that okay, but the Bible says\u2026\u201d He\u2019s four!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell him what you said.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was like, \u201cHey, Dave!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Exactly! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> She goes, \u201cGo ask Dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> But there\u2019s a part of me that felt fearful, like, \u201cMan, this kid\u2026\u201d I automatically, as a parent\/as a mom, I go into that fear zone of like: \u201cOh, no!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>natural<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Dave walks in; and he says, \u201cYes!\u201d\u2014like: \u201cI\u2019m so glad\u2026\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what he said: \u201cCJ! What a <em>great<\/em> deep question. Man, you\u2019re smart! Let\u2019s talk about that, because those are great questions. Never feel ashamed to ask those kinds of questions.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> And you know what? Honestly, that tension of like him knowing, \u201cMy mom is <em>concerned<\/em> for me; and my dad, who is like, \u2018It\u2019s going to be okay,\u2019\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a good tension for kids. Don\u2019t beat yourself up. Your kids know: \u201cMy mom loves me and is feeling that pain with me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I told my mom when I was questioning things. My dad was like, \u201cSon, that\u2019s great! Seek truth! I love you\u201d; the glass is 99 percent full. [Laughter] My mom was like shattered! I remember thinking, \u201cThis is <em>my life.<\/em> Why does it bother you so much?\u201d And then, about five years ago, when my kids were in deep pain, I thought back on that. It was like, \u201cNow I get, maybe, what it would have been like for Mom, maybe, to feel that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, five days ago, I was with a group of probably 13 moms, they all had teenagers. The best way I can describe them is they were <em>gripped <\/em>in fear of what the culture was doing to their kids. What would you say to those moms\u2014and even dads\u2014[who] are feeling that fear?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We will hear how Sean McDowell answers that question in just a minute. You\u2019re listening to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>with Dave and Ann Wilson. They\u2019ve been talking today with Sean McDowell, who has written a book called <em>Chasing Love: Sex, Love and Relationships in a Confused Culture.<\/em> It\u2019s a book we\u2019re making available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners. If you can help support the ongoing outreach of <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>the book is our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to donate. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY; that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, let me ask you a quick question: \u201cWhen was the last time you spent some focused, concentrated time thinking about what the Bible teaches about marriage or about parenting?\u201d Here, at FamilyLife, we have created resources designed to help small groups have some compelling conversations together about marriage and family. We\u2019ve got resources like the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s <em>Vertical Marriage <\/em>series. We did a series on my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>All of these resources, right now, we\u2019re making available with a special offer to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners. If you want to buy any of these resources to use with your small group, use the promo code, \u201dNEWYEAR2022\u201d; and you\u2019ll save 25 percent off any of our small-group resources. You can check all of this out on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Use the promo code, \u201dNEWYEAR2022,\u201d for the savings.<\/p>\n<p>Now, just a minute ago, Ann Wilson was asking today\u2019s guest, Sean McDowell, about parents who are fearful, and how he would counsel them in the midst of their fear. Here\u2019s Sean\u2019s answer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I would say a couple things. I would say: \u201cThe Bible says, \u2018Perfect love casts out fear\u2019; \u2018Perfect love casts out fear.\u2019 The <em>only<\/em> thing we can control is how much we <em>love<\/em> our kids. When my kids became teenagers, I learned very fast I cannot control them the way I could when they were younger\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014where they <em>go<\/em>,as a whole, when they get older; what they believe\u2014my control is <em>gone<\/em> and minimized, in many ways, the older they get. I can build a relationship with them; I can pray for them; and I can unceasingly love them. So <em>never<\/em> underestimate the power of a praying and a loving mom.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n"],"duration":["00:30:13"],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.66M"],"filesize_raw":["29008733"],"_edit_lock":["1736369036:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2022-02-08 08:02:10"],"enclosure":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-08.mp3"],"_seopress_redirections_type":["301"],"_seopress_redirections_logged_status":["both"],"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":[""],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307397.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307397.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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is it okay to have sex? Author Sean McDowell gives the critical need-to-know about when to have sex\u00e2\u20ac\"and avoid destruction and regret.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-02-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So question for you: \u201cIf you could go back to your teenage years,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and I knew you then, but I was so much older and mature; [Laughter] three years older\u2014but you know, in high school, you think you\u2019re not even <em>ever<\/em> going to date somebody that much younger. So go back to like 13; maybe 14\/15 years old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> There was no internet then.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But if there was, and you were going to Google<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> like a question\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like, \u201cI\u2019ve <em>got to <\/em>get an answer to this!\u201d\u2014I\u2019m just wondering what that question would be for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home; so my first question, especially at that age, would have been: \u201cWhen am I ready?\u201d or \u201cWhen is it okay to have sex?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting. While you were sitting in bed last night, and I had my laptop out, I googled that question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, you googled it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cI bet a lot of teenagers are asking that question.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> So I just typed in\u2014which I was thinking later\u2014\u201cThis is going to look weird on my history! [Laughter]\u2019\u201cHow can I know if I\u2019m ready to have sex?\u2019\u201d Do you want to hear the answer?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> First thing that came up\u2014and I did it four different times; and every time, this was the very first\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014number one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the number-one hit was: \u201cDeciding if you\u2019re ready to have sex is a big decision that\u2019s very personal. It\u2019s important to think it through and wait until you\u2019re sure you\u2019re ready.\u201d And then it goes on: \u201cHow do I know when I\u2019m ready to have sex? Deciding to have sex is a big deal. It\u2019s a big decision that only you can make. A healthy sex life fits in with everything that you\u2019re about, including your personal values, your school and career goals, the emotional and physical risks you\u2019re willing to take. Think about if having sex is something you really want to do or something you\u2019re being pressured to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m not going to read you the rest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But guess where that comes from?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> No idea.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Planned Parenthood.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Interesting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the number-one site you\u2019re going to get an answer to that question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So based on what you read, what would a teenager think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think you would think, \u201cOh, it\u2019s really up to me. Maybe I\u2019ll talk to my parents,\u201d\u2014no!\u2014\u201cI\u2019ll talk to my friends, and I think they\u2019re going to agree with me I\u2019m probably ready.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, again, it\u2019s just a nebulous answer that needs some help. So let\u2019s bring somebody in the studio to help us get a <em>better<\/em> answer to that question. We have Sean McDowell back with us\u2014<em>Dr<\/em>. Sean McDowell\u2014[Laughter] You know, he\u2019s written a book called <em>Chasing Love, <\/em>which we\u2019ve already had some discussion about; but it\u2019s perfect, because it\u2019s <em>Sex, Love and Relationships in a Confused Culture.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Sean, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Parents, I\u2019m just going to say, \u201cYou need to get this book.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s a workbook with it. Who would go through the workbook? Is this just teens alone?\u2014in a group? Would parents do it <em>with<\/em> their teens?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, the workbook comes along with a nine-part teaching series that I taught by video, 10-12 minutes kind of explaining some of the key ideas. I\u2019ve had youth groups go through it and contact me. I\u2019ve had parents just take kids through it individually; some homeschool groups have used it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, which is great! You know, you deal almost every day\u2014right?\u2014at Talbot School of Theology and at Biola; and you also teach at a local high school. So you\u2019re dealing with young people\u2019s questions all the time. I\u2019m guessing you\u2019ve heard the question I googled last night: \u201cHow do I know when I\u2019m ready to have sex?\u201d Obviously, you have a whole section on this question in the book. How would you answer that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d probably answer it differently to a non-Christian than I would to a Christian.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh, let\u2019s hear <em>both<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> So if a non-Christian asks me that, I will probably say, \u201cSo questions you make about sexuality are tied to who you are and the kind of person you want to become; because having sex with somebody is the one thing you do that brings a human life into existence. Do you agree that it\u2019s a big deal?\u201d \u201cYes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSo what do you think it means to love? What is loving somebody?\u201d I might ask this question\/I\u2019d say, \u201cOkay, do you want to get married someday?\u201d I would start, sort of with the end in mind. Most young people would still say, \u201cYes.\u201d I\u2019d say, \u201cOkay, what do you want that marriage to be like? Do you want that person to be <em>faithful<\/em> to you? Do you want that person to have had sex with a lot of people before they\u2019re with you?\u201d I think I would just start with a vision of the kind of person they want to become, and then help them think through [how] sexuality plays into that role.<\/p>\n<p>And of course, if a non-Christian was open to it, I would quickly bring it to God and say, \u201cYou know, really, this is a question about: \u201cIs there a God and a designer for your life? The fact that you\u2019re asking this question, you realize a lot is at stake; and you can\u2019t really answer this question without having some assumption about: \u2018If there\u2019s a God and how He wants us to live. So have you thought about the questions?\u2019\u201d\u2014that\u2019s probably the route that I would go if a non-Christian asked me that.<\/p>\n<p>The problem with that piece by Planned Parenthood\u2014and I did <em>all<\/em> of those searches when I was writing this book; and I <em>knew<\/em> when you asked that question\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You did??<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Oh, yes! I talk about it a little bit in the book itself. They started this new short answer thing by Planned Parenthood, where they\u2019ve targeted all the questions kids will type into Google, and then it sends it to Planned Parenthood\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014about sexuality. So I knew that\u2019s where it was going. This is a subjective kind of question that, basically, is summed up in: \u201cIf you feel ready, you\u2019re ready.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> So there\u2019s no <em>moral <\/em>component to that; there\u2019s no obligation to somebody else. It\u2019s all about how you feel, which is exactly what a young person wants to hear!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> If a Christian asks me that, and they said, you know, \u201cWhen do I know when I\u2019m ready to have sex or not?\u201d I would say, \u201cOkay, let me ask you a question: \u2018Are you a follower of Jesus Christ? What did <em>Jesus<\/em> say about what it takes to be ready?\u2019\u201d They might not know the exact answer. [Laughter] But they would probably say, \u201cWell, I guess He\u2019d say you\u2019re ready when you\u2019re married.\u201d I would say, \u201cThe Scriptures say God designed sex for one man and one woman, who become one flesh for one lifetime. So your feelings are actually <em>irrelevant<\/em> to whether you\u2019re ready or not.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would have said, at that time, \u201cBut that\u2019s <em>dumb<\/em>! Why would God <em>say<\/em> that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> She would have said that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I would have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014to the Christian answer?\u2014or like you could push back; we can role play if you wanted to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, to either, like, \u201cThat\u2019s <em>dumb<\/em>. It feels like God\u2019s given us these desires. Why would we wait?\u201d and \u201cWhy would God say, \u2018No\u2019?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u201cHave you ever thought about how, if God has given us these desires, like you said\u2014and they are strong, good, beautiful desires\u2014that maybe He knows something you and I don\u2019t know and has a better plan for it? Has that ever gone through your mind?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBecause God could have said like a guy and a girl like pinky swear, and a kid pops out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u201cHe could have made sex a <em>chore<\/em>, but He didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAnd you <em>admitted<\/em> God is the One who designed this\u2014so if He\u2019s all knowing, and He gave us these <em>strong<\/em> desires and this amazingly beautiful thing called sex\u2014has it ever crossed your mind that maybe He knows what\u2019s best for you and what\u2019s best for me in terms of how we experience it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good! I love, in the book, that you said, \u201cHave you ever imagined what the world would look like if everyone lived the sexual ethic of Jesus? Would the world be better or worse?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a <em>powerful <\/em>statement in the book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; talk about that a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That is one of my <em>favorite<\/em> questions to ask young people. I\u2019ll ask young people, who are not Christians, by the way, to get <em>them<\/em> to think about this as well. Of course, sometimes you have to clarify what Jesus\u2019s sexual ethic was. Essentially, it was there are two ways to love God and honor people in marriage and in singleness: if you\u2019re married, it\u2019s one man, one woman, one flesh, one lifetime.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll simply ask students\/I\u2019ll say, \u201cImagine everybody embraced that. Would the world be better? Would it be the same? Or would it be worse? Let\u2019s start to write on the board what we think the answers are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ah, you\u2019re such a good teacher! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> You\u2019re kind! But students start:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>You know, a student will go, \u201cOkay, I guess there would be no divorce. Kids would have a mom and dad.\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s right, because Jesus said that marriage is permanent.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Then some kid will say, \u201cWell, I guess there\u2019d be no sex abuse, because Jesus talked about <em>loving<\/em> your neighbor,\u201d\u2014was a part of the sexual ethic.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Then some kid will say, \u201cI guess there\u2019d be no pornography or victims of pornography.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>\u201cI guess there\u2019d be no sexually-transmitted diseases.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>\u201cThere\u2019d be no dead-beat dads, you know, leaving their wife for a trophy wife.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>\u201cThere\u2019d be no crude sexual humor.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>On and on, it starts to dawn on students: \u201cOkay, wait a minute. The rules that Jesus gave are not to control us. He\u2019s not some big cosmic killjoy, as some people say. It\u2019s actually for human flourishing; it\u2019s for our best.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s why I\u2019ll take you back, and I\u2019ll say, \u201cThat\u2019s why David says, in Psalm 19, he rejoices in the law of the Lord. It\u2019s, actually, the law\u2014now, David had a hard time <em>following<\/em> it\u2014but when he was <em>inspired<\/em>, he <em>knew<\/em> that God\u2019s laws brought freedom. That\u2019s why Moses writes in Deuteronomy 10\/he says: \u201cLove the Lord your God with your heart, your soul, your mind, and your strength and follow these commandments which I am giving you for your good.\u201d They\u2019re, objectively, for our good.<\/p>\n<p>So what the two of you were talking about a minute ago is: kids will not really start to sacrifice following their feelings and urges until they have a <em>bigger<\/em> vision of what marriage and relationships should be like. That\u2019s why, as an athlete\u2014all of us who are athletes in different capacities\u2014you <em>suffer<\/em> for something when you have a <em>bigger<\/em> goal.<\/p>\n<p>Part of what the church has done is said: \u201cSex is bad; don\u2019t do that.\u201d And we haven\u2019t given kids a vision of: \u201cNo, here\u2019s why marriage is beautiful\u2026\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s why biblical love is the greatest experience you can have.\u201d Then, when they have a bigger vision for it, it oftentimes gives them the strength to resist some of the lies and temptations in the culture in which we live.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, take us into your home. How do you teach these kinds of things to your kids? I can see it in the classroom; I can see it on the board.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And when does it start?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I would <em>love<\/em> to know how you did that. Sort of model for parents: \u201cHow do we talk about these kinds of things with our kids? What age? What kind of topic?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Sex ed starts the moment a kid comes out of a womb. I mean, think about it: the way you touch a baby, even appropriately, is [teaching] them to become comfortable with their body\u2014affectionate touch, the tone that we use, the way you treat somebody of the opposite sex\u2014kids are learning from day one.<\/p>\n<p>Now, how we have conversation varies. We\u2019re driving in the car\u2014and my son, who is eight\u2014my daughter made a statement, because she\u2019s 14; and they were having a discussion about abortion. She said something; and Shane goes, \u201c<em>Dad<\/em>, what\u2019s abortion?\u201d I think a lot of parents would say, \u201cOh, don\u2019t ask! I can\u2019t believe it.\u201d My dad had trained me: \u201cHere\u2019s an opportunity.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So in my mind, I\u2019m like, \u201cHow do I explain this in a way that\u2019s appropriate to an eight-year-old?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, buddy, abortion is one of the great tragedies of our day.\u201d I said, \u201cMany women, for different reason, sometimes decide they don\u2019t want to keep and deliver the baby that\u2019s inside of them.\u201d \u201cDad! Why would they do that?\u201d I said, \u201cWell\u2026\u201d; I walked through three or four different scenarios.<\/p>\n<p>He goes, \u201cHow do they do an abortion?\u201d My wife is like, \u201cDon\u2019t explain it!\u201d [Laughter] Inside, I was like, \u201cI\u2019m the dad, so I err on the side of going, \u2018Well, you\u2019ve seen Superhero movies, where people die. You\u2019ve seen that okay? You\u2019ve seen people killed.\u2019\u201d I said, \u201cWell, sometimes that happens to the unborn; but keep in mind, they can\u2019t protect themselves; they\u2019re inside a mother. It\u2019s a human being, so it\u2019s a tragedy.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe have to have so much compassion for these moms, who feel like that\u2019s the choice\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s good to say that too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthey have to make. But buddy, that\u2019s a human being we\u2019ve got to protect too.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then he was like, \u201cOkay; can we watch this when we get home?\u201d [Laughter] Like you get these <em>moments<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> So the <em>main<\/em> way I try to teach it is just\u2014sometimes I pause the TV; I don\u2019t do it too much, because it will drive my kids nuts\u2014but we were watching <em>The Flash<\/em> TV show. I\u2019ll pause it, now and then, and go, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ve just got to say something.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cDad! Whatever.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cI know! But listen; okay? We\u2019ll keep watching it.\u201d [Conversations can be] Over the dinner table sometimes; when we\u2019re driving. I just look to have consistent, regular conversations with my kids about these things; because that\u2019s where I think truth is really passed on, in conversation. I\u2019m <em>looking<\/em> for opportunities to arise.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of people, when those opportunities come up about sex, they want to divert it the other direction. I\u2019m like, \u201cGreat! You\u2019re interested? Let\u2019s talk about it. What does this mean? What are we afraid of?\u201d Part of what that does is just show kids: \u201cGod designed your body. Our worldview applies to this. We\u2019re not ashamed of this; this is a good, beautiful, okay thing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And if you don\u2019t know the answer, you just go, \u201cThat\u2019s a really good [question]. Can you give your dad some time to think about this and come back to you, because I want to give you an answer that\u2019s helpful?\u201d Every kid is going to be like, \u201cThat\u2019s fine.\u201d And then you think about it. I\u2019ve called my dad a couple times; [Laughter] I\u2019m like, \u201cDad! Wait a minute; help me out with this!\u201d [Laughter] And then I go back to my <em>kids<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s just a part of the process: but you\u2019ve got to be intentional; you\u2019ve got to be consistent; you\u2019ve got to model it with your kids; and you\u2019ve just got to ask a lot of questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did your conversations change a little bit as your kids got older? Because ours did. I think, before they were 12, we were kind of instructing, teaching, talking\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and then, when they became teenagers, we started asking them a lot more questions. Did you do some of that, or were you always <em>asking<\/em>?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I\u2019ve always been a question-asker.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I <em>encourage<\/em> my kids to ask questions. One of the things I say to my son\u2014because he\u2019s eight now\u2014as I tuck him in; whenever I remember, I\u2019ll say, \u201cYou know, buddy, you can ask your dad <em>anything<\/em>.\u201d Studies show kids\/a big reason kids leave their faith is <em>not<\/em> doubt; it\u2019s <em>unexpressed<\/em> doubt. I want my kids to feel free: \u201cAsk questions; I\u2019m not afraid of this. I invite this: \u2018Let\u2019s have a conversation about issues of sexuality as well.\u2019\u201d I\u2019ve always kind of invited that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> But things are pretty black and white until the age you said\u2014about, you know, like with seventh graders, it\u2019s like: \u201cIf you believe this, you\u2019re dumb,\u201d \u201cIf you believe that, you\u2019re smart,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it\u2019s like [that].<\/p>\n<p>And then they start learning abstract thinking. As you move to 12, 13, 14, or 15, you can have the more sophisticated conversations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> If they push back <em>against<\/em> what you\u2019re teaching them, or they start <em>living<\/em> differently than what you\u2019re teaching and hoping they\u2019ll do, how does a parent respond?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Well, that depends on <em>how<\/em> they push back; because there\u2019s a kind of pushback that\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m being rude, and rebellious, and pushing back out of disrespect,\u201d or a kind of pushback that\u2019s like, \u201cYou know, I just don\u2019t know that I buy that, and here\u2019s why\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I mean, I\u2019ve had conversations with my kids that I\u2019ve had to apologize for. It didn\u2019t go the way I wanted it to, for sure; but I haven\u2019t had them push back rebelliously and angrily. Some of that is because of the relationship that we have. But I\u2019ve certainly had my son and my daughter, you know, say things like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I see it that way.\u201d I\u2019ll go, \u201cOkay, tell me about that; I\u2019m really curious.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, oftentimes, I\u2019ll just ask a lot of questions. My daughter is like, \u201cWhat\u2019s the point?\u201d I mean, she bought me a mug recently that says, \u201cI don\u2019t need Google; my dad knows everything.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s great!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I think it was a compliment. That\u2019s how I\u2019m going to take it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It <em>is <\/em>a compliment! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> But she\u2019s like, \u201cI can\u2019t even argue anything with you!\u201d I said, \u201cI\u2019m not trying to <em>argue<\/em> with you. I want to know what you think, and I\u2019m just asking you questions so we can have a conversation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I have to <em>moderate<\/em> these things, because I don\u2019t want to go into debate mode. I just remind myself\/I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay; it\u2019s okay if you differ from me; but know <em>why<\/em>, and let\u2019s make sure it lines up with Scripture.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you know, hearing you answer that reminds me of the last time you were on. We asked you about your rejection of sort of the faith.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were going on a journey\u2014and how your dad responded\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I remember from that conversation too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014it sounds similar.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Talk about that a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it sounds like you\u2019re doing a very similar thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> You know, look, I get to interact with a lot of atheists, and skeptics, and ex-Christians. Over and over again, you hear a common story of a lot of hurt; or just this fundamentalist background, that doubt was terrible, and \u201cIf you question things, it would damage our relationship.\u201d Not every time\u2014but <em>many<\/em> times\u2014you hear that.<\/p>\n<p>My dad, as much of an apologist and conservative as he is, went out of his way to communicate to us that his love for us was not dependent <em>whatsoever<\/em> on what we believed. This time that you\u2019re referring to\u2014I think I was 19 years old\u2014and just told my dad I wasn\u2019t sure that I was convinced that Christianity is true.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m sure many people listening know he\u2019s written 150 books and spoken to tens of millions of people, defending the Christian faith; and his son is like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m not sure I\u2019m convinced.\u201d He didn\u2019t freak out. He just was like\/essentially, goes, \u201cSon, that\u2019s great. You can\u2019t live off what I think is true. You\u2019ve got to know for <em>yourself<\/em> what you think is true. Your mom and I are going to love you no matter what.\u201d And that just <em>deflates <\/em>so much of the concern and the anxiety that kids have.<\/p>\n<p>I try to do that with my kids. You know, my kids have said stuff at times, like: \u201cWhat if I believe <em>this<\/em>?\u201dor \u201c\u2026did <em>that<\/em>?!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014almost like they\u2019re testing me\u2014and I\u2019ll just say, \u201cYou <em>know <\/em>that would <em>never<\/em> change my love for you. That\u2019s silly! Come on,\u201d\u2014almost in jest like that\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014to make sure they <em>know<\/em> that that relationship would <em>never<\/em> change.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so good. I know that we\u2019ve written a book called <em>No Perfect Parents. <\/em>In the book\u2014<\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, I just pulled it up!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes; we had our adult sons, at the end of some of the chapters, write in terms of like, \u201cJust tell us, in your words,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cTell the reader.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwhat worked? Tell the reader what worked and what didn\u2019t work,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014 or \u201c\u2026what you appreciated or wish your parents would have changed.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was pretty interesting, you know, when we got their manuscripts back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m sure!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> When we went through\u2014we didn\u2019t tell them [what to write]\u2014\u201cYou write anything you want! If we were <em>horrible, <\/em>write it\u201d; you know? Our oldest son, who is always a thinker; he\u2019s an engineering brain\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014analytical.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014very analytical\u2014always had questions, from day one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I just pulled it up, and I thought, \u201cI want to make sure I get this right.\u201d You know, he\u2019s the first one who wrote\u2014and it\u2019s just reflections\u2014and he said, \u201cI probably would have become an atheist if you had shut down my questioning of things like young earth creationism when I was in high school and college.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Wow! Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know that!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we didn\u2019t know it until [this].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cWow!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it was such a beautiful thing to read. I do remember many conversations\u2014but even that specific one\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cWow, great question. There are several different opinions on that. Here are...\u201d; you know?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> He was the one\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Never knowing that it could have pushed him away if I had been the dad, who said, \u201cYou can\u2019t question; you can\u2019t doubt. You\u2019re a pastor\u2019s son; this is how it goes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was so interesting\u2014when he was maybe four, I think, you know, we were reading the Bible or telling Bible stories\u2014this one night, before he was going to sleep, he says, \u201cMom, wait a minute! So doesn\u2019t it say that we aren\u2019t allowed to murder or kill in the Ten Commandments?\u201d I said, \u201cYes, that is true.\u201d He goes, \u201cSo we just read tonight about David chopping off Goliath\u2019s head. [Laughter] That\u2019s okay?! Why is that okay, but the Bible says\u2026\u201d He\u2019s four!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell him what you said.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was like, \u201cHey, Dave!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> Exactly! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> She goes, \u201cGo ask Dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> But there\u2019s a part of me that felt fearful, like, \u201cMan, this kid\u2026\u201d I automatically, as a parent\/as a mom, I go into that fear zone of like: \u201cOh, no!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>natural<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Dave walks in; and he says, \u201cYes!\u201d\u2014like: \u201cI\u2019m so glad\u2026\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what he said: \u201cCJ! What a <em>great<\/em> deep question. Man, you\u2019re smart! Let\u2019s talk about that, because those are great questions. Never feel ashamed to ask those kinds of questions.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> And you know what? Honestly, that tension of like him knowing, \u201cMy mom is <em>concerned<\/em> for me; and my dad, who is like, \u2018It\u2019s going to be okay,\u2019\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a good tension for kids. Don\u2019t beat yourself up. Your kids know: \u201cMy mom loves me and is feeling that pain with me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I told my mom when I was questioning things. My dad was like, \u201cSon, that\u2019s great! Seek truth! I love you\u201d; the glass is 99 percent full. [Laughter] My mom was like shattered! I remember thinking, \u201cThis is <em>my life.<\/em> Why does it bother you so much?\u201d And then, about five years ago, when my kids were in deep pain, I thought back on that. It was like, \u201cNow I get, maybe, what it would have been like for Mom, maybe, to feel that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, five days ago, I was with a group of probably 13 moms, they all had teenagers. The best way I can describe them is they were <em>gripped <\/em>in fear of what the culture was doing to their kids. What would you say to those moms\u2014and even dads\u2014[who] are feeling that fear?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We will hear how Sean McDowell answers that question in just a minute. You\u2019re listening to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>with Dave and Ann Wilson. They\u2019ve been talking today with Sean McDowell, who has written a book called <em>Chasing Love: Sex, Love and Relationships in a Confused Culture.<\/em> It\u2019s a book we\u2019re making available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners. If you can help support the ongoing outreach of <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>the book is our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to donate. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY; that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, let me ask you a quick question: \u201cWhen was the last time you spent some focused, concentrated time thinking about what the Bible teaches about marriage or about parenting?\u201d Here, at FamilyLife, we have created resources designed to help small groups have some compelling conversations together about marriage and family. We\u2019ve got resources like the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s <em>Vertical Marriage <\/em>series. We did a series on my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>All of these resources, right now, we\u2019re making available with a special offer to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners. If you want to buy any of these resources to use with your small group, use the promo code, \u201dNEWYEAR2022\u201d; and you\u2019ll save 25 percent off any of our small-group resources. You can check all of this out on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Use the promo code, \u201dNEWYEAR2022,\u201d for the savings.<\/p>\n<p>Now, just a minute ago, Ann Wilson was asking today\u2019s guest, Sean McDowell, about parents who are fearful, and how he would counsel them in the midst of their fear. Here\u2019s Sean\u2019s answer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> I would say a couple things. I would say: \u201cThe Bible says, \u2018Perfect love casts out fear\u2019; \u2018Perfect love casts out fear.\u2019 The <em>only<\/em> thing we can control is how much we <em>love<\/em> our kids. When my kids became teenagers, I learned very fast I cannot control them the way I could when they were younger\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean:<\/strong> \u2014where they <em>go<\/em>,as a whole, when they get older; what they believe\u2014my control is <em>gone<\/em> and minimized, in many ways, the older they get. I can build a relationship with them; I can pray for them; and I can unceasingly love them. So <em>never<\/em> underestimate the power of a praying and a loving mom.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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