{"id":307376,"date":"2022-01-19T08:04:08","date_gmt":"2022-01-19T13:04:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/why-spiritual-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/"},"modified":"2022-01-19T08:04:08","modified_gmt":"2022-01-19T13:04:08","slug":"why-spiritual-health-matters-for-your-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-spiritual-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"Why Spiritual Health Matters for your Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Like physical health, your marriage&#8217;s spiritual health determines resilience &amp; strength for what hurtles your way. Authors Dave &amp; Ashley Willis cheer you on.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-19.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:03","filesize":"24.76M","filesize_raw":"25967404","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846,2820],"tags":[2877,4678],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9755],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307376","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","category-lifelong-marriages","tag-marriage","tag-spiritual-health","cwp_profile-dave-and-ashley-willis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307376\/why-spiritual-health-matters-for-your-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307376\/why-spiritual-health-matters-for-your-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"pwxf0joUBn\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-spiritual-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/\">Why Spiritual Health Matters for your Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-spiritual-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=pwxf0joUBn\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Why Spiritual Health Matters for your Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"pwxf0joUBn\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-19.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-19.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I remember sitting, two weeks before our wedding, in the Chicago ballroom, downtown Chicago, at the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup><em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014engaged; listening to the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, talk about how important the spiritual part of your marriage is\u2014do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. I thought, \u201cDennis Rainey is the most remarkable speaker. This conference is <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what I remember?\u2014is from that day on, you wanted me to be Dennis Rainey; that\u2019s what I remember. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I totally did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It started right then and there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, that is when it started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, 14 days from [then] we\u2019re getting married; and I remember thinking, \u201cOh, the spiritual part of our marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019ve got this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014will be the <em>easiest<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cIt won\u2019t even be something you have to work at.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWe love Jesus; it\u2019s so <em>natural<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And then we got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what happened? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I had no idea, number one, how hard marriage would be; number two, how hard it would be to connect together spiritually. It was really a struggle for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere we are\u201441 years later\u2014and I\u2019m\/it\u2019s still a struggle in some ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think\/I really think that I judged your spiritual walk, and I had expectations that you were going to be Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine. [Laughter] I was like, \u201cWait; what is happening right now?\u201d I was always thinking: \u201cOh, you should do this,\u201d and \u201cYou should do that.\u201d I feel like it was more<em> me<\/em> than anybody. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, good; I\u2019m going to blame you then too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You can!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it was all you; no! I mean, the conference was <em>phenomenal<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say this: the conferences are still going on. FamilyLife\u2019s <em>still does<\/em> the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re on for this spring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014over 40 years. This spring we have 60 booked, which is amazing after we got through COVID. Here\u2019s the good news: you can go to one of our spring conferences for 50 percent off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, you guys; did you hear that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a two-for-one deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Your registration will be half off; that\u2019s remarkable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What\u2019s really cool is you can pick any city you want\u2014there\u2019s probably one near you, or if you want to go to a destination\u2014it\u2019s Friday night through Sunday morning. Again, we went as an engaged couple; so you can go as a dating\/engaged couple; you can go as newlyweds; you can go as couples\/be there, 30\/40 years married. It will literally\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Two-and-a-half\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014maybe <em>save<\/em> your marriage; if not, I guarantee it will enhance your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014two-and-a-half days; we\u2019ve had people actually hand us their divorce papers at the conference, saying they came as a last-ditch effort; and this changed their lives. It\u2019s pretty remarkable of how God shows up and you hear God\u2019s game plan for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can sign up there or call FamilyLife: 1-800-FL-TODAY. I\u2019m telling you: it will be one of the best things you ever do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother <em>best<\/em> thing you\u2019ll ever do is listen to this show today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because we\u2019ve got Dave and Ashley Willis back with us <em>again<\/em>. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Thank you all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re\/how many years have you been married?<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Twenty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Twenty years, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve written like 25 books? I don\u2019t even know what\u2019s happening right now. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve got four sons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have a podcast\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014called <em>Naked Marriage<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve already described <em>Naked Marriage<\/em> does not mean you sit in a room, naked; it is all about vulnerability and naked understanding. It\u2019s just beautiful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis book, <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>, first of all, we\u2019ve talked about it a little bit. How did you even come up with the idea of \u201chealthy\u201d? Because you\u2019re talking about mental health; you\u2019re talking about spiritual health and physical health. Today, we get to talk about the spiritual part. But where even did the concept come? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> We just, in the couples that we worked with over the many years we\u2019ve done marriage ministry, we just saw this tendency of couples, not having health in all of those areas, and how really both the husband and wife are individuals, who have their individual health; but also, it affects the marriage collectively. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen one of us is struggling with mental health, it\u2019s going to affect the other. When one of us is really not feeling good physically, it\u2019s going to affect the other. Sometimes you <em>both<\/em> are dealing with those things; sometimes you <em>both<\/em> are having mental health or physical issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe just wanted to talk about: \u201cWhat does it look like in us, individually, striving towards better health; but also, in our marriage, having a healthier marriage? How do we navigate that?\u201d Because sometimes, when we\u2019re not on the same page on our health journey, it can cause a lot of fights. We talk about that: we talk about how you can grow healthier physically, mentally and spiritually as an individual; but also, how, in that journey, you can also grow stronger in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about the spiritual; because I know a lot of couples probably feel like: \u201cWe\u2019re in different places. We\u2019re not compatible, spiritually. We may be in physically, and mentally, and emotionally; but this area, there\u2019s a little gap or a disconnect.\u201d What do you say? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, we\u2019ve already said, it\u2019s a really important part of your marriage. But what do you say to a couple, who feels like, \u201cI\u2019m not able to connect on the same level or a different level than my spouse\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> I would say, first off, it\u2019s really worth the effort. Our culture\u2019s given us this myth that, as long as you\u2019ve got chemistry\/as long as there\u2019s physical connection, then that\u2019s all you really need. That alone is the recipe for a terrible relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They would probably say, \u201cAnd if you have a spiritual [connection, then] that\u2019s just a great <em>bonus<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s not at the <em>forefront<\/em> of their thinking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> It\u2019s not. But really, it needs to be the <em>foundational<\/em> part. Of the three, it\u2019s <em>the<\/em> most important. Jesus tells the parable of the storm coming, and \u201cWhere\u2019s your life built?\u201d You\u2019ve got to build your life on the rock. If you don\u2019t have that foundation, the storms of life are going to blow you over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithin marriage, it\u2019s building that house together on the rock\u2014which is your faith in God\/His Word\u2014being unified in that, because storms of life are going to come. Sadly, a lot of couples don\u2019t realize how spiritually disconnected they are until a storm comes along, and really knocks them off the foundation. They realize, \u201cI thought we were just doing pretty good; but we were on autopilot, and the spiritual aspect of our lives\u2014our faith in Christ\/our being rooted together in Him\u2014had just not been a priority.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to read that Scripture, because it\u2019s one of <em>our<\/em> favorites. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes, read it; read it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We just love this. It\u2019s at the end of the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 7. It says this:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEveryone then who hears these words of Mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Matthew 7:24-27].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys, I want you to talk through that. You\u2019ve already been doing it, Dave; but walk us through the importance and how you\u2019ve probably seen so many houses fall, over the years of ministry in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right, and I think\u2014you know, we always say, too, when your house\u2014you can have all the those winds hitting your house, and it can even crumble on the rock; but the rock\u2019s there to support you. I think, even in our health journeys, we can feel that. We can be like: \u201cMan, it\u2019s another diagnosis,\u201d or \u201cIt\u2019s another thing with my mental illness is flaring up again; I\u2019m having those anxiety attacks again,\u201d or whatever it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, even when we go through that, when we have a spiritual health in our life\u2014when we\u2019re building our house, so to speak, on the truth of God\u2019s Word and our relationship with Him\u2014we can get through <em>anything<\/em>. We really can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of times, where the spiritual aspect really comes to light\u2014it\u2019s one of the big ones is when we\u2019re going through troubles\u2014but also, I find this, when couples have children, because they\u2019re not sure what role faith is going to play in raising those children. So many times, couples reach out to us, and they\u2019ll say, \u201cI know I definitely\/I kind of strayed away from the church for a while; but I really want to come back to the Lord, and I want to raise our children in the church. But my husband\u201d or \u201c\u2026my wife is saying, \u2018Well, just you and the kids go.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> It really grieves the spouse\u2019s heart, who\u2019s going to church; and the spouse at home is like, \u201cYou\u2019re weird. I don\u2019t even want to do that. I was raised like that. It didn\u2019t seem real to me; I don\u2019t want any part of it.\u201d So you start to see that conflict rise there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason we wrote this book about health, and especially about the spiritual side of it, is that it really is, I believe, the most important aspect of our health. Because again, it\u2019s the thing that can get us through all those other times when we\u2019re having trouble in the other areas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re going through this, I think it\u2019s really important to just talk openly and honestly about really where you are in your spiritual journey; and don\u2019t be afraid. You\u2019ve got to get naked, so to speak, and be vulnerable about it. If you are doubting God, don\u2019t be afraid to go to your spouse and say, \u201cListen, I long to feel the way you do about the Lord, but this thing happened to me\u2026\u201d or \u201cI\u2019ve just had these doubts, and I don\u2019t know what to do with them; so let\u2019s talk through that.\u201d I think that\u2019s where you start to see couples really get a better understanding of each other; but also, really kind of grow in the Lord when they can be that honest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you this: \u201cIf you\u2019re the spouse that\u2019s going to church, or wanting to pursue a spiritual walk, and your spouse isn\u2019t, how do you talk about it? Maybe they\u2019re adamant; like, \u2018You go. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> my thing; it\u2019s <em>never<\/em> going to be my thing\u2019?\u201d Maybe you started the marriage thinking that: \u201cWe were going to be somewhat compatible here\u201d; but you realize: \u201cWow, we\u2019re <em>not<\/em>.\u201d How do you navigate that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> We get a lot of those messages. If you\u2019re listening, and you\u2019re in that dynamic, we pray <em>for you<\/em>; because I think that can be such a lonely place, when you\u2019re the believing spouse, and you feel like you\u2019re trying carry that alone\u2014and the most important part of your life\u2014your faith in Christ isn\u2019t something that your spouse will share with you. It\u2019s so hard to have complete intimacy when the most important part of your life is something that they\u2019re not willing to participate in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible gives us some good practical instruction on here in Paul\u2019s writings in the New Testament. To kind of summarize what he says, it\u2019s to keep loving them; to try to win them over with your good deeds [1 Peter 3:1]. Nowhere in there does it say: \u201cBeat them over the head,\u201d \u201cPreach at them,\u201d \u201cTell them that they\u2019re terrible,\u201d \u201cGuilt them into it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it\u2019s: \u201cLove them,\u201d \u201cServe them,\u201d \u201cBe kind to them,\u201d \u201cLet them know you\u2019re praying for them,\u201d \u201cLet them see through you\u2019re an authentic, but imperfect, example\u201d\u2014because none of us are perfect\u2014but your authentic example that <em>you<\/em> really believe what you say you believe and you\u2019re doing your part to live it out. Talk about the difference it\u2019s making in <em>your<\/em> life; and what you\u2019re learning; and how you\u2019re growing; and how you\u2019re praying for them; and how, some day, you\u2019d love to be able to share this with them. But do it in a way that is inviting and that is\u2014the Bible also says be willing to give\/to testify to the reason for the hope that you have\u2014but do it with \u201cgentleness and respect.\u201d That\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Peter [3:15] that says that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBe willing to say what your faith is about, and why you believe what you believe, and why you\u2019re doing what you\u2019re doing; but do it with gentleness and respect\u2014and not that animosity, or anger, or frustration of like\u2014\u201cWell, if you would do it with me, life would be so much easier.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBe kind and, sometimes, you\u2019re going to have to pray. While you are praying for your spouse, pray, \u201cGod, give me the right attitude <em>with<\/em> my spouse; help me be a reflection of Your love and grace instead of just my own flesh getting in the way and my own frustration getting in the way. Let me <em>really love them<\/em> the way You love them, Jesus. Let them see that\/a glimpse of that through me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love what Andy Stanley said about this. He said that your spouse should be able to know how much God loves them by the way you treat them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I first heard that, I thought, \u201cWait, wait; what?\u201d And he said \u201cIf your spouse has <em>no idea<\/em> what Jesus is like, they should be able to think, \u2018The way my wife\u2019 or \u2018\u2026my husband loves me, if Jesus loves me like that, then I want to know Him.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we tend to be, and this is me, I tend to be like, \u201cYou should do this, and you should be getting in the Word.\u201d And I\u2019ve done that with our kids, too; especially with teenagers. I remember I was like, \u201cYou guys, we should be in the Word, and let\u2019s do this.\u201d It was like I pulled out my ball bat; and I was like [stern voice], \u201cHere\u2019s what we\u2019re doing now!\u201d [Laughter] I realized\u2014they\u2019d have this <em>glazed<\/em> look in their eye\u2014like, \u201cHere she goes again on her soapbox.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, as I was praying, I felt like God was saying exactly what you\u2019re saying, Dave: \u201cShow them; show them how much you love Jesus. Don\u2019t tell them what they <em>should<\/em> do. Let them see it in your <em>own<\/em> life.\u201d So I just started saying at the dinner table, naturally\/it wasn\u2019t contrived, like, \u201cLet me tell you what God\u2019s showing me today. Let me tell you about how I was in the grocery store, and I paid for this lady\u2019s groceries today; because I felt God say that I should.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She does that all the time. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I love it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I\u2019ll have these <em>stories<\/em> of these God encounters. That\u2019s when I remember our kids were like, \u201cWhat did you do?\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cAre you <em>crazy<\/em>, Mom?\u201d Like I\u2019d stop on the side of the road for somebody that needed help if it was a woman, or things that I felt like God was <em>stirring<\/em> in me\u2014not to condemn or to think, \u201cOh, she\u2019s so amazing,\u201d\u2014because I <em>also<\/em> shared my struggles. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, too, as a couple, to talk about your faith journeys: \u201cWhat did your faith look like, growing up? How did you come to believe or <em>not<\/em> believe? What <em>happened<\/em> in your life?\u201d I think that reveals a lot. Do you guys\/have you found that too?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashely:<\/strong> Absolutely, and it\u2019s about that vulnerability\u2014being willing to talk about it, but not judging each other\u2014because, a lot of times, we do come from <em>very<\/em> <em>different <\/em>backgrounds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll just say ours: Dave grew up in a home, where he went to church <em>every<\/em> Sunday; probably a lot of Wednesdays; was <em>heavily <\/em>involved in his youth group. And I grew up in a home that I would consider faith-friendly, but not necessarily a Christian home. We were CEOs; we\u2019d go Christmas and Easter Only. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was me; yes, our family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, but it was friendly. I mean, I could talk about God. Once I came to the faith, at twelve years old, I\u2019m grateful I had parents who would drop me off at church to go to youth group. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the way that my parents\u2014and I want to say this to anybody, listening, too, who has a spouse, who doesn\u2019t <em>yet<\/em> believe in Jesus\u2014if you are bringing your kids to church, and they get involved in things at church, it\u2019s a great opportunity for your spouse to go and to see what God is doing in your child\u2019s life. You never know if that\u2019s going to actually bring them closer to the Lord. That\u2019s actually what happened with my parents and, also, many of my friends\u2019 parents\u2014is they would come\u2014and they would see me sing in the show choir at church, or they would come and help me volunteer for whatever activity we were doing. Don\u2019t count God out on them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we\u2019re thinking, \u201cWe\u2019re the ones; it\u2019s our responsibility.\u201d We do play a role; but God loves them more than <em>we<\/em> even love them, so just pray for them and know that God is who started that good work in them\/that little seed. You\u2019re a big part of that little seed; He\u2019s going to continue to work in them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love what you said, Ann. I think making faith and following Jesus as real, and <em>just real<\/em> right before their eyes, and not using Christian-ese\u2014like a language they don\u2019t understand that they\u2019re like, \u201cThat\u2019s weird; they\u2019re part of a cult,\u201d\u2014just being very <em>real<\/em> and talking about what God is doing in your life. It shows them\/it kind of is giving them that little: \u201cTaste and see that the Lord is good,\u201d\u2014and just pointing it out\u2014like: \u201cSee what God has done; I was praying for that for us,\u201d \u201cThat financial breakthrough; I\u2019ve been praying for that. You heard me pray for that.\u201d Just pointing it out and saying, \u201cGod is with us,\u201d\u2014not being weird about it\u2014but just saying, \u201cLook, God\u2019s working,\u201d and then leave it there; because God\u2019s going to do the rest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about your spiritual relationship in your marriage; because I know there\u2019s couples listening, like, \u201cWe are both believers. We do go to church together; but sometimes we struggle to connect as a couple, spiritually.\u201d We call it in our <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> book, \u201cGoing vertical.\u201d How do you guys do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> There is something really intimate about praying together. Couples, who aren\u2019t doing that, I feel like they\u2019re missing out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was reminded about this\u2014how intimate it can be\u2014my parents right now, who are kind of faith heroes of mine, and heroes for a lot of ways\/a lot of reasons. You know, my dad\u2019s been through just a terrible year-and-a-half\u2014he had a near-death heart incident; and then he had a cancer diagnosis, and he had to deal with that; and then, right out of that, he had a staph infection in his knee that basically has crippled him for the last year, where he has been in terrible pain. He hasn\u2019t been able to walk, and it\u2019s just been a really painful process to get that under control. He\u2019s finally coming out of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in kind of the worst part of it\u2014where he was in this agonizing pain, and he\u2019d be laying on the couch, and he\u2019d had whatever pain medication he could have for the day, and there was <em>nothing else<\/em> he could do, and he\u2019s just in agony\u2014I would hear stories from him and mom about them, just holding hands, and with tears in both their eyes, them just praying these heart-felt passionate prayers together for God\u2019s strength. Them talking about those moments now, as painful as they were, some of the most intimate moments of any kind they\u2019ve ever shared in their marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI feel like, when a couple will bring whatever they\u2019re facing to God\u2014the gratitude in their heart for what\u2019s going on; or the gut-wrenching pain of: \u201cWe don\u2019t even have the words, Lord. But just we\u2019re going to hold hands and cry out together and call out to You,\u201d\u2014sharing that, in faith, and knowing that Jesus is right there with you in the midst of it, it\u2019s going to do wonders. It\u2019s going to take probably one spouse\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014initiating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> \u2014initiating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> If you\u2019re the spouse [who] maybe is a little bit more comfortable in that area, then be the one to initiate. And then just be so supportive of your spouse in that journey as they pray, like, encourage them; and just talk about what it <em>meant<\/em> to you to hear them talk to God; and how it brought you closer to the Lord in that moment, and closer to your spouse too. Really encourage them in that, and build that up, instead of making your spouse feel bad for not praying as much as you or whatever. Build each other up, and those moments can be really special.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, too, for women\u2014I know that I went through a phase of being bitter that Dave wasn\u2019t initiating\u2014and then I would think, \u201cOh, well, he\u2019s the leader; he\u2019s supposed to initiate prayer.\u201d Who wins in that?\u2014like Satan has just won. I wouldn\u2019t pray; and Dave wouldn\u2019t pray; because he\u2019s asleep, feeling great about everything; and I\u2019m sitting over there, feeling bitter about the whole thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tInstead of doing that, I remember, as I was complaining to God\u2014like, \u201cThere He fell asleep, and we were supposed to pray,\u201d\u2014I remember God just nudging me, like, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you just pray? He fell asleep; go ahead and pray.\u201d I\u2019d feel like, \u201cOh, yes; God got that victory,\u201d because I\u2019d just put my hand on Dave; prayed out loud. He didn\u2019t <em>mean<\/em> to fall asleep; you know, he just <em>fell<\/em> <em>asleep<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it\u2019s really important that, if God presses it on your heart, just initiate. And if you have a spouse [who\u2019s] not a praying kind of person\u2014maybe they don\u2019t even have faith\u2014still, there is something so sweet about your spouse putting their hand on your shoulder at night, saying, \u201cJesus, thank You for my spouse. Thank You that he\u2019s a good man,\u201d or \u201c\u2026she\u2019s a great wife,\u201d or whatever. You\u2019re praying <em>positive<\/em> words over them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That just does something to <em>melt<\/em> the heart and make you responsive to God, because God is always loving us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I was thinking, you know, where we started was Matthew 7. It\u2019s really interesting, when you look at that passage and think, \u201cOkay, what did Jesus say the wise man does compared to the fool?\u201d I\u2019ve read it at church over times and tried to see if people notice I took something out; nobody ever notices. I\u2019ll say something like this, \u201cMatthew 7 is amazing; it says \u2018Everyone who hears these words of Mine is like a wise man who built his house on the rock,\u2019 and <em>nobody<\/em> realizes that\u2019s not what He said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> You have to put it into practice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cEveryone who hears these words of Mine and <em>does them<\/em> or <em>puts them into practice<\/em>,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the difference. Because I think we think the spiritual part of our marriage is: \u201cGo to church; get in a small group,\u201d\u2014which, obviously, is awesome; it\u2019s <em>wonderful<\/em>\u2014but then, we\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, that\u2019s it; we\u2019ve got the spiritual thing. We go to church once a month,\u201d or \u201c\u2026twice; we\u2019ve got the kids in the kids\u2019 program,\u201d\u2014never thinking\u2014\u201cWait, wait, wait; wisdom is I\u2019m going to apply what\u2014I\u2019m not a hearer\u2014I\u2019m a doer.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverything you are talking about right now is like: \u201cNo, let\u2019s put this into practice. Let\u2019s <em>pray<\/em> together,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s not talk about it\/not listen to it; let\u2019s <em>do it<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave, you said, in a previous program, \u201cStart today.\u201d I remember you saying, \u201cStart today.\u201d I thought, \u201cWhat a great word,\u201d because there\u2019s a couple listening right now, who\u2019s, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll start that next month.\u201d No;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> \u2014start today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014today. Maybe it would be the first time you <em>ever<\/em> prayed with your spouse to go vertical\/to bring the spiritual part. And there\u2019s a husband, I know, going, \u201cBut I don\u2019t really even pray out loud. I don\u2019t know how to pray.\u201d I\u2019ve said many times: \u201cHere\u2019s a prayer. Grab her hand and say, \u2018Help! Amen.\u2019\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, there you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You sort of think, \u201cWell, that\u2019s not a prayer.\u201d Oh, yes; we know that Jesus is <em>rushing<\/em> to any husband or wife, who pray, \u201cWe need Your help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that prayer will grow. It will morph into something maybe longer, and who cares if it does or doesn\u2019t. But that\u2019s just laying a foundation to say, \u201cLet\u2019s just start there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got to say this: thank you, you guys; the last three programs with you are going to help so many people. You\u2019ve already helped us. Thanks for being on FamilyLife. It\u2019s great to have you here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> It\u2019s our honor to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Thank you, guys. Thanks for what you\u2019re doing. We love it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I have talked to so many couples, over the years, who neglect or minimize the issue of spiritual intimacy in their marriage; and then, when they start to experience marriage struggles or challenges, they\u2019re baffled, \u201cHow could things have gone wrong in our marriage?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI often point back to this issue of spiritual intimacy as the strong foundation that is poured in a healthy marriage that helps the marriage weather all kinds of storms. In fact, it goes back to what Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount when He said, \u201cIf you build your house on a rock\u201d\u2014you build your marriage on a spiritual foundation\u2014\u201cthen, when the storms come, your house will stand.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave and Ashley Willis have been our guests this week, talking with Dave and Ann Wilson about the issue of spiritual intimacy, physical intimacy, emotional intimacy in marriage. The book they\u2019ve written is called <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can find out more online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Order a copy from us if you\u2019d like, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the book is called <em>Naked and Healthy <\/em>by Dave and Ashley Willis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then don\u2019t forget, this week is your last opportunity to sign up for one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. We\u2019re making this offer available to regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and find out when one of our two-and-a-half-day getaways is coming to a city near where you live. Map out a weekend this spring, where you can join us; and then register now. Again, you\u2019ll save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s more information online at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can register online, as well; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions. Don\u2019t miss this opportunity to do something that will strengthen your marriage and to save a little money at the same time. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and register for a FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to explore what it would look like for a husband and wife to be living life on mission together as a couple. David and Meg Robbins will join us. We\u2019ll hear a little of their story. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:03"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.76M"],"filesize_raw":["25967404"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307376.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307376.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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physical health, your marriage's spiritual health determines resilience &amp; strength for what hurtles your way. Authors Dave &amp; Ashley Willis cheer you on.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-19.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I remember sitting, two weeks before our wedding, in the Chicago ballroom, downtown Chicago, at the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup><em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014engaged; listening to the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, talk about how important the spiritual part of your marriage is\u2014do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. I thought, \u201cDennis Rainey is the most remarkable speaker. This conference is <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what I remember?\u2014is from that day on, you wanted me to be Dennis Rainey; that\u2019s what I remember. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I totally did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It started right then and there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, that is when it started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, 14 days from [then] we\u2019re getting married; and I remember thinking, \u201cOh, the spiritual part of our marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019ve got this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014will be the <em>easiest<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cIt won\u2019t even be something you have to work at.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWe love Jesus; it\u2019s so <em>natural<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And then we got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what happened? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I had no idea, number one, how hard marriage would be; number two, how hard it would be to connect together spiritually. It was really a struggle for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere we are\u201441 years later\u2014and I\u2019m\/it\u2019s still a struggle in some ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think\/I really think that I judged your spiritual walk, and I had expectations that you were going to be Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine. [Laughter] I was like, \u201cWait; what is happening right now?\u201d I was always thinking: \u201cOh, you should do this,\u201d and \u201cYou should do that.\u201d I feel like it was more<em> me<\/em> than anybody. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, good; I\u2019m going to blame you then too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You can!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it was all you; no! I mean, the conference was <em>phenomenal<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say this: the conferences are still going on. FamilyLife\u2019s <em>still does<\/em> the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re on for this spring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014over 40 years. This spring we have 60 booked, which is amazing after we got through COVID. Here\u2019s the good news: you can go to one of our spring conferences for 50 percent off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, you guys; did you hear that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a two-for-one deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Your registration will be half off; that\u2019s remarkable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What\u2019s really cool is you can pick any city you want\u2014there\u2019s probably one near you, or if you want to go to a destination\u2014it\u2019s Friday night through Sunday morning. Again, we went as an engaged couple; so you can go as a dating\/engaged couple; you can go as newlyweds; you can go as couples\/be there, 30\/40 years married. It will literally\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Two-and-a-half\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014maybe <em>save<\/em> your marriage; if not, I guarantee it will enhance your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014two-and-a-half days; we\u2019ve had people actually hand us their divorce papers at the conference, saying they came as a last-ditch effort; and this changed their lives. It\u2019s pretty remarkable of how God shows up and you hear God\u2019s game plan for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can sign up there or call FamilyLife: 1-800-FL-TODAY. I\u2019m telling you: it will be one of the best things you ever do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother <em>best<\/em> thing you\u2019ll ever do is listen to this show today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because we\u2019ve got Dave and Ashley Willis back with us <em>again<\/em>. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Thank you all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re\/how many years have you been married?<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Twenty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Twenty years, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve written like 25 books? I don\u2019t even know what\u2019s happening right now. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve got four sons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have a podcast\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014called <em>Naked Marriage<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve already described <em>Naked Marriage<\/em> does not mean you sit in a room, naked; it is all about vulnerability and naked understanding. It\u2019s just beautiful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis book, <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>, first of all, we\u2019ve talked about it a little bit. How did you even come up with the idea of \u201chealthy\u201d? Because you\u2019re talking about mental health; you\u2019re talking about spiritual health and physical health. Today, we get to talk about the spiritual part. But where even did the concept come? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> We just, in the couples that we worked with over the many years we\u2019ve done marriage ministry, we just saw this tendency of couples, not having health in all of those areas, and how really both the husband and wife are individuals, who have their individual health; but also, it affects the marriage collectively. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen one of us is struggling with mental health, it\u2019s going to affect the other. When one of us is really not feeling good physically, it\u2019s going to affect the other. Sometimes you <em>both<\/em> are dealing with those things; sometimes you <em>both<\/em> are having mental health or physical issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe just wanted to talk about: \u201cWhat does it look like in us, individually, striving towards better health; but also, in our marriage, having a healthier marriage? How do we navigate that?\u201d Because sometimes, when we\u2019re not on the same page on our health journey, it can cause a lot of fights. We talk about that: we talk about how you can grow healthier physically, mentally and spiritually as an individual; but also, how, in that journey, you can also grow stronger in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about the spiritual; because I know a lot of couples probably feel like: \u201cWe\u2019re in different places. We\u2019re not compatible, spiritually. We may be in physically, and mentally, and emotionally; but this area, there\u2019s a little gap or a disconnect.\u201d What do you say? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, we\u2019ve already said, it\u2019s a really important part of your marriage. But what do you say to a couple, who feels like, \u201cI\u2019m not able to connect on the same level or a different level than my spouse\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> I would say, first off, it\u2019s really worth the effort. Our culture\u2019s given us this myth that, as long as you\u2019ve got chemistry\/as long as there\u2019s physical connection, then that\u2019s all you really need. That alone is the recipe for a terrible relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They would probably say, \u201cAnd if you have a spiritual [connection, then] that\u2019s just a great <em>bonus<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s not at the <em>forefront<\/em> of their thinking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> It\u2019s not. But really, it needs to be the <em>foundational<\/em> part. Of the three, it\u2019s <em>the<\/em> most important. Jesus tells the parable of the storm coming, and \u201cWhere\u2019s your life built?\u201d You\u2019ve got to build your life on the rock. If you don\u2019t have that foundation, the storms of life are going to blow you over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithin marriage, it\u2019s building that house together on the rock\u2014which is your faith in God\/His Word\u2014being unified in that, because storms of life are going to come. Sadly, a lot of couples don\u2019t realize how spiritually disconnected they are until a storm comes along, and really knocks them off the foundation. They realize, \u201cI thought we were just doing pretty good; but we were on autopilot, and the spiritual aspect of our lives\u2014our faith in Christ\/our being rooted together in Him\u2014had just not been a priority.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to read that Scripture, because it\u2019s one of <em>our<\/em> favorites. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes, read it; read it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We just love this. It\u2019s at the end of the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 7. It says this:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEveryone then who hears these words of Mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Matthew 7:24-27].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys, I want you to talk through that. You\u2019ve already been doing it, Dave; but walk us through the importance and how you\u2019ve probably seen so many houses fall, over the years of ministry in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right, and I think\u2014you know, we always say, too, when your house\u2014you can have all the those winds hitting your house, and it can even crumble on the rock; but the rock\u2019s there to support you. I think, even in our health journeys, we can feel that. We can be like: \u201cMan, it\u2019s another diagnosis,\u201d or \u201cIt\u2019s another thing with my mental illness is flaring up again; I\u2019m having those anxiety attacks again,\u201d or whatever it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, even when we go through that, when we have a spiritual health in our life\u2014when we\u2019re building our house, so to speak, on the truth of God\u2019s Word and our relationship with Him\u2014we can get through <em>anything<\/em>. We really can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of times, where the spiritual aspect really comes to light\u2014it\u2019s one of the big ones is when we\u2019re going through troubles\u2014but also, I find this, when couples have children, because they\u2019re not sure what role faith is going to play in raising those children. So many times, couples reach out to us, and they\u2019ll say, \u201cI know I definitely\/I kind of strayed away from the church for a while; but I really want to come back to the Lord, and I want to raise our children in the church. But my husband\u201d or \u201c\u2026my wife is saying, \u2018Well, just you and the kids go.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> It really grieves the spouse\u2019s heart, who\u2019s going to church; and the spouse at home is like, \u201cYou\u2019re weird. I don\u2019t even want to do that. I was raised like that. It didn\u2019t seem real to me; I don\u2019t want any part of it.\u201d So you start to see that conflict rise there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason we wrote this book about health, and especially about the spiritual side of it, is that it really is, I believe, the most important aspect of our health. Because again, it\u2019s the thing that can get us through all those other times when we\u2019re having trouble in the other areas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re going through this, I think it\u2019s really important to just talk openly and honestly about really where you are in your spiritual journey; and don\u2019t be afraid. You\u2019ve got to get naked, so to speak, and be vulnerable about it. If you are doubting God, don\u2019t be afraid to go to your spouse and say, \u201cListen, I long to feel the way you do about the Lord, but this thing happened to me\u2026\u201d or \u201cI\u2019ve just had these doubts, and I don\u2019t know what to do with them; so let\u2019s talk through that.\u201d I think that\u2019s where you start to see couples really get a better understanding of each other; but also, really kind of grow in the Lord when they can be that honest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you this: \u201cIf you\u2019re the spouse that\u2019s going to church, or wanting to pursue a spiritual walk, and your spouse isn\u2019t, how do you talk about it? Maybe they\u2019re adamant; like, \u2018You go. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> my thing; it\u2019s <em>never<\/em> going to be my thing\u2019?\u201d Maybe you started the marriage thinking that: \u201cWe were going to be somewhat compatible here\u201d; but you realize: \u201cWow, we\u2019re <em>not<\/em>.\u201d How do you navigate that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> We get a lot of those messages. If you\u2019re listening, and you\u2019re in that dynamic, we pray <em>for you<\/em>; because I think that can be such a lonely place, when you\u2019re the believing spouse, and you feel like you\u2019re trying carry that alone\u2014and the most important part of your life\u2014your faith in Christ isn\u2019t something that your spouse will share with you. It\u2019s so hard to have complete intimacy when the most important part of your life is something that they\u2019re not willing to participate in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible gives us some good practical instruction on here in Paul\u2019s writings in the New Testament. To kind of summarize what he says, it\u2019s to keep loving them; to try to win them over with your good deeds [1 Peter 3:1]. Nowhere in there does it say: \u201cBeat them over the head,\u201d \u201cPreach at them,\u201d \u201cTell them that they\u2019re terrible,\u201d \u201cGuilt them into it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it\u2019s: \u201cLove them,\u201d \u201cServe them,\u201d \u201cBe kind to them,\u201d \u201cLet them know you\u2019re praying for them,\u201d \u201cLet them see through you\u2019re an authentic, but imperfect, example\u201d\u2014because none of us are perfect\u2014but your authentic example that <em>you<\/em> really believe what you say you believe and you\u2019re doing your part to live it out. Talk about the difference it\u2019s making in <em>your<\/em> life; and what you\u2019re learning; and how you\u2019re growing; and how you\u2019re praying for them; and how, some day, you\u2019d love to be able to share this with them. But do it in a way that is inviting and that is\u2014the Bible also says be willing to give\/to testify to the reason for the hope that you have\u2014but do it with \u201cgentleness and respect.\u201d That\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Peter [3:15] that says that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBe willing to say what your faith is about, and why you believe what you believe, and why you\u2019re doing what you\u2019re doing; but do it with gentleness and respect\u2014and not that animosity, or anger, or frustration of like\u2014\u201cWell, if you would do it with me, life would be so much easier.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBe kind and, sometimes, you\u2019re going to have to pray. While you are praying for your spouse, pray, \u201cGod, give me the right attitude <em>with<\/em> my spouse; help me be a reflection of Your love and grace instead of just my own flesh getting in the way and my own frustration getting in the way. Let me <em>really love them<\/em> the way You love them, Jesus. Let them see that\/a glimpse of that through me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love what Andy Stanley said about this. He said that your spouse should be able to know how much God loves them by the way you treat them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When I first heard that, I thought, \u201cWait, wait; what?\u201d And he said \u201cIf your spouse has <em>no idea<\/em> what Jesus is like, they should be able to think, \u2018The way my wife\u2019 or \u2018\u2026my husband loves me, if Jesus loves me like that, then I want to know Him.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we tend to be, and this is me, I tend to be like, \u201cYou should do this, and you should be getting in the Word.\u201d And I\u2019ve done that with our kids, too; especially with teenagers. I remember I was like, \u201cYou guys, we should be in the Word, and let\u2019s do this.\u201d It was like I pulled out my ball bat; and I was like [stern voice], \u201cHere\u2019s what we\u2019re doing now!\u201d [Laughter] I realized\u2014they\u2019d have this <em>glazed<\/em> look in their eye\u2014like, \u201cHere she goes again on her soapbox.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, as I was praying, I felt like God was saying exactly what you\u2019re saying, Dave: \u201cShow them; show them how much you love Jesus. Don\u2019t tell them what they <em>should<\/em> do. Let them see it in your <em>own<\/em> life.\u201d So I just started saying at the dinner table, naturally\/it wasn\u2019t contrived, like, \u201cLet me tell you what God\u2019s showing me today. Let me tell you about how I was in the grocery store, and I paid for this lady\u2019s groceries today; because I felt God say that I should.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She does that all the time. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I love it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I\u2019ll have these <em>stories<\/em> of these God encounters. That\u2019s when I remember our kids were like, \u201cWhat did you do?\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cAre you <em>crazy<\/em>, Mom?\u201d Like I\u2019d stop on the side of the road for somebody that needed help if it was a woman, or things that I felt like God was <em>stirring<\/em> in me\u2014not to condemn or to think, \u201cOh, she\u2019s so amazing,\u201d\u2014because I <em>also<\/em> shared my struggles. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, too, as a couple, to talk about your faith journeys: \u201cWhat did your faith look like, growing up? How did you come to believe or <em>not<\/em> believe? What <em>happened<\/em> in your life?\u201d I think that reveals a lot. Do you guys\/have you found that too?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashely:<\/strong> Absolutely, and it\u2019s about that vulnerability\u2014being willing to talk about it, but not judging each other\u2014because, a lot of times, we do come from <em>very<\/em> <em>different <\/em>backgrounds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll just say ours: Dave grew up in a home, where he went to church <em>every<\/em> Sunday; probably a lot of Wednesdays; was <em>heavily <\/em>involved in his youth group. And I grew up in a home that I would consider faith-friendly, but not necessarily a Christian home. We were CEOs; we\u2019d go Christmas and Easter Only. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was me; yes, our family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, but it was friendly. I mean, I could talk about God. Once I came to the faith, at twelve years old, I\u2019m grateful I had parents who would drop me off at church to go to youth group. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the way that my parents\u2014and I want to say this to anybody, listening, too, who has a spouse, who doesn\u2019t <em>yet<\/em> believe in Jesus\u2014if you are bringing your kids to church, and they get involved in things at church, it\u2019s a great opportunity for your spouse to go and to see what God is doing in your child\u2019s life. You never know if that\u2019s going to actually bring them closer to the Lord. That\u2019s actually what happened with my parents and, also, many of my friends\u2019 parents\u2014is they would come\u2014and they would see me sing in the show choir at church, or they would come and help me volunteer for whatever activity we were doing. Don\u2019t count God out on them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we\u2019re thinking, \u201cWe\u2019re the ones; it\u2019s our responsibility.\u201d We do play a role; but God loves them more than <em>we<\/em> even love them, so just pray for them and know that God is who started that good work in them\/that little seed. You\u2019re a big part of that little seed; He\u2019s going to continue to work in them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love what you said, Ann. I think making faith and following Jesus as real, and <em>just real<\/em> right before their eyes, and not using Christian-ese\u2014like a language they don\u2019t understand that they\u2019re like, \u201cThat\u2019s weird; they\u2019re part of a cult,\u201d\u2014just being very <em>real<\/em> and talking about what God is doing in your life. It shows them\/it kind of is giving them that little: \u201cTaste and see that the Lord is good,\u201d\u2014and just pointing it out\u2014like: \u201cSee what God has done; I was praying for that for us,\u201d \u201cThat financial breakthrough; I\u2019ve been praying for that. You heard me pray for that.\u201d Just pointing it out and saying, \u201cGod is with us,\u201d\u2014not being weird about it\u2014but just saying, \u201cLook, God\u2019s working,\u201d and then leave it there; because God\u2019s going to do the rest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about your spiritual relationship in your marriage; because I know there\u2019s couples listening, like, \u201cWe are both believers. We do go to church together; but sometimes we struggle to connect as a couple, spiritually.\u201d We call it in our <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> book, \u201cGoing vertical.\u201d How do you guys do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> There is something really intimate about praying together. Couples, who aren\u2019t doing that, I feel like they\u2019re missing out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was reminded about this\u2014how intimate it can be\u2014my parents right now, who are kind of faith heroes of mine, and heroes for a lot of ways\/a lot of reasons. You know, my dad\u2019s been through just a terrible year-and-a-half\u2014he had a near-death heart incident; and then he had a cancer diagnosis, and he had to deal with that; and then, right out of that, he had a staph infection in his knee that basically has crippled him for the last year, where he has been in terrible pain. He hasn\u2019t been able to walk, and it\u2019s just been a really painful process to get that under control. He\u2019s finally coming out of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in kind of the worst part of it\u2014where he was in this agonizing pain, and he\u2019d be laying on the couch, and he\u2019d had whatever pain medication he could have for the day, and there was <em>nothing else<\/em> he could do, and he\u2019s just in agony\u2014I would hear stories from him and mom about them, just holding hands, and with tears in both their eyes, them just praying these heart-felt passionate prayers together for God\u2019s strength. Them talking about those moments now, as painful as they were, some of the most intimate moments of any kind they\u2019ve ever shared in their marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI feel like, when a couple will bring whatever they\u2019re facing to God\u2014the gratitude in their heart for what\u2019s going on; or the gut-wrenching pain of: \u201cWe don\u2019t even have the words, Lord. But just we\u2019re going to hold hands and cry out together and call out to You,\u201d\u2014sharing that, in faith, and knowing that Jesus is right there with you in the midst of it, it\u2019s going to do wonders. It\u2019s going to take probably one spouse\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014initiating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> \u2014initiating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> If you\u2019re the spouse [who] maybe is a little bit more comfortable in that area, then be the one to initiate. And then just be so supportive of your spouse in that journey as they pray, like, encourage them; and just talk about what it <em>meant<\/em> to you to hear them talk to God; and how it brought you closer to the Lord in that moment, and closer to your spouse too. Really encourage them in that, and build that up, instead of making your spouse feel bad for not praying as much as you or whatever. Build each other up, and those moments can be really special.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, too, for women\u2014I know that I went through a phase of being bitter that Dave wasn\u2019t initiating\u2014and then I would think, \u201cOh, well, he\u2019s the leader; he\u2019s supposed to initiate prayer.\u201d Who wins in that?\u2014like Satan has just won. I wouldn\u2019t pray; and Dave wouldn\u2019t pray; because he\u2019s asleep, feeling great about everything; and I\u2019m sitting over there, feeling bitter about the whole thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tInstead of doing that, I remember, as I was complaining to God\u2014like, \u201cThere He fell asleep, and we were supposed to pray,\u201d\u2014I remember God just nudging me, like, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you just pray? He fell asleep; go ahead and pray.\u201d I\u2019d feel like, \u201cOh, yes; God got that victory,\u201d because I\u2019d just put my hand on Dave; prayed out loud. He didn\u2019t <em>mean<\/em> to fall asleep; you know, he just <em>fell<\/em> <em>asleep<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it\u2019s really important that, if God presses it on your heart, just initiate. And if you have a spouse [who\u2019s] not a praying kind of person\u2014maybe they don\u2019t even have faith\u2014still, there is something so sweet about your spouse putting their hand on your shoulder at night, saying, \u201cJesus, thank You for my spouse. Thank You that he\u2019s a good man,\u201d or \u201c\u2026she\u2019s a great wife,\u201d or whatever. You\u2019re praying <em>positive<\/em> words over them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That just does something to <em>melt<\/em> the heart and make you responsive to God, because God is always loving us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I was thinking, you know, where we started was Matthew 7. It\u2019s really interesting, when you look at that passage and think, \u201cOkay, what did Jesus say the wise man does compared to the fool?\u201d I\u2019ve read it at church over times and tried to see if people notice I took something out; nobody ever notices. I\u2019ll say something like this, \u201cMatthew 7 is amazing; it says \u2018Everyone who hears these words of Mine is like a wise man who built his house on the rock,\u2019 and <em>nobody<\/em> realizes that\u2019s not what He said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> You have to put it into practice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cEveryone who hears these words of Mine and <em>does them<\/em> or <em>puts them into practice<\/em>,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the difference. Because I think we think the spiritual part of our marriage is: \u201cGo to church; get in a small group,\u201d\u2014which, obviously, is awesome; it\u2019s <em>wonderful<\/em>\u2014but then, we\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, that\u2019s it; we\u2019ve got the spiritual thing. We go to church once a month,\u201d or \u201c\u2026twice; we\u2019ve got the kids in the kids\u2019 program,\u201d\u2014never thinking\u2014\u201cWait, wait, wait; wisdom is I\u2019m going to apply what\u2014I\u2019m not a hearer\u2014I\u2019m a doer.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverything you are talking about right now is like: \u201cNo, let\u2019s put this into practice. Let\u2019s <em>pray<\/em> together,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s not talk about it\/not listen to it; let\u2019s <em>do it<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave, you said, in a previous program, \u201cStart today.\u201d I remember you saying, \u201cStart today.\u201d I thought, \u201cWhat a great word,\u201d because there\u2019s a couple listening right now, who\u2019s, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll start that next month.\u201d No;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> \u2014start today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014today. Maybe it would be the first time you <em>ever<\/em> prayed with your spouse to go vertical\/to bring the spiritual part. And there\u2019s a husband, I know, going, \u201cBut I don\u2019t really even pray out loud. I don\u2019t know how to pray.\u201d I\u2019ve said many times: \u201cHere\u2019s a prayer. Grab her hand and say, \u2018Help! Amen.\u2019\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes, there you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You sort of think, \u201cWell, that\u2019s not a prayer.\u201d Oh, yes; we know that Jesus is <em>rushing<\/em> to any husband or wife, who pray, \u201cWe need Your help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that prayer will grow. It will morph into something maybe longer, and who cares if it does or doesn\u2019t. But that\u2019s just laying a foundation to say, \u201cLet\u2019s just start there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got to say this: thank you, you guys; the last three programs with you are going to help so many people. You\u2019ve already helped us. Thanks for being on FamilyLife. It\u2019s great to have you here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> It\u2019s our honor to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Thank you, guys. Thanks for what you\u2019re doing. We love it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I have talked to so many couples, over the years, who neglect or minimize the issue of spiritual intimacy in their marriage; and then, when they start to experience marriage struggles or challenges, they\u2019re baffled, \u201cHow could things have gone wrong in our marriage?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI often point back to this issue of spiritual intimacy as the strong foundation that is poured in a healthy marriage that helps the marriage weather all kinds of storms. In fact, it goes back to what Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount when He said, \u201cIf you build your house on a rock\u201d\u2014you build your marriage on a spiritual foundation\u2014\u201cthen, when the storms come, your house will stand.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave and Ashley Willis have been our guests this week, talking with Dave and Ann Wilson about the issue of spiritual intimacy, physical intimacy, emotional intimacy in marriage. The book they\u2019ve written is called <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can find out more online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Order a copy from us if you\u2019d like, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the book is called <em>Naked and Healthy <\/em>by Dave and Ashley Willis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then don\u2019t forget, this week is your last opportunity to sign up for one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. We\u2019re making this offer available to regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and find out when one of our two-and-a-half-day getaways is coming to a city near where you live. Map out a weekend this spring, where you can join us; and then register now. Again, you\u2019ll save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s more information online at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can register online, as well; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions. Don\u2019t miss this opportunity to do something that will strengthen your marriage and to save a little money at the same time. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and register for a FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to explore what it would look like for a husband and wife to be living life on mission together as a couple. David and Meg Robbins will join us. We\u2019ll hear a little of their story. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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