{"id":307372,"date":"2022-01-17T08:04:25","date_gmt":"2022-01-17T13:04:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/"},"modified":"2022-01-17T08:04:25","modified_gmt":"2022-01-17T13:04:25","slug":"why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"Why Emotional Health Matters for Your Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why&#8217;s emotional health a big deal in marriage? Bestselling authors Dave &amp; Ashley Willis share their story&#8211;and how vulnerability became their game changer.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-17.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:37:08","filesize":"33.99M","filesize_raw":"35644409","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846,2820],"tags":[2933,2877],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9755],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307372","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","category-lifelong-marriages","tag-emotional-health","tag-marriage","cwp_profile-dave-and-ashley-willis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307372\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307372\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"pNFblW6dGv\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/\">Why Emotional Health Matters for Your Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=pNFblW6dGv\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Why Emotional Health Matters for Your Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"pNFblW6dGv\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Naked Marriage goes back to God\u2019s original design for marriage. The first picture He gave us of marriage is in Genesis, Chapter 2\u2014He says that that first couple, Adam and Eve\u2014they were naked and unashamed. That nakedness wasn\u2019t just a picture of physical intimacy, even though that\u2019s a beautiful part of it; but it\u2019s a picture of having nothing to hide from each other, being completely vulnerable\/completely open. And that\u2019s what God desires for marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So we don\u2019t often talk about 1999 in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, 1999; ooh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was one of the tougher years; why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I lost my very best friend to cancer, and it was my sister. She\u2019s my best friend; she led me to Jesus. She died of [emotion in voice]\u2014gosh, I get teary talking about it\u2014she died of lung cancer. My parents had never smoked, and she never did. She was gone within five months, leaving her four sons; and it was really a <em>dark<\/em> time for us in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, it was dark for you; it was dark for everyone really. And as your husband, I\u2019ve always said\u2014you know this\u2014one of the things I <em>love<\/em> about Ann Wilson is your StrengthsFinders [assessment]: like number two is positivity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you walk in the kitchen one day, and you\u2019re not positive, I like fall on the floor. [Laughter] I can barely function, which is like I\u2019m so codependent on your positivity; but you went through\/our marriage went through 18 months; didn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I was grieving; and I could not conjure up <em>anything<\/em>. I was just at a dark, dark place, questioning everything; and I felt like I had absolutely <em>nothing<\/em> to give.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can remember the day I heard you laugh in the garage; I was in the kitchen. I think it was two years that I hadn\u2019t heard you laugh\/like belly laugh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re bringing that up because when one of the spouses, or both, are really struggling emotionally or mentally, it can really impact a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think it can lead one or both of you reeling, not knowing where to go, what to do. You\u2019re wondering, \u201cWill our marriage survive this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so I\u2019m excited because we\u2019ve got two friends in the studio today, Dave and Ashley Willis, who\u2014I didn\u2019t say Dave and Ann Wilson\u2014Dave and Ashley Willis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re sitting over there, being so polite. You know you can\u2019t interrupt us, and here you are sitting in the studio. You guys have this <em>amazing<\/em> ministry that you have committed\u2014has it been two decades or so of your lives?\u2014to helping marriages, like what we just described, <em>thrive<\/em> in the midst of good times and tough times; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, it\u2019s, you know, we definitely have walked through some dark times, just like what you described. Yes, it\u2019s our heart to help people navigate these things. Because it\u2019s those times that, even though we are personally going through a hard time, I think we can turn and kind of put it on our spouse and think: \u201cOh, did I marry the wrong person?\u201d or \u201cMaybe the <em>marriage<\/em> is the problem. Maybe it\u2019s <em>all<\/em> their fault after all.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we want to help couples\u2014just like you guys are doing\u2014you know, help them see they can get through these hard times and, not only that, that there\u2019s really kind of a strength you find on the other side of that. When you lean into each other, and really give it to God through that hard time, you can really grow stronger through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell us a little bit about Dave and Ashley Willis, because I know you\u2019ve written\u2014I didn\u2019t know this many: 15 books?\u2014is that right? That sounds like a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys are young! It\u2019s not like you\u2019re this old couple; you\u2019re <em>young<\/em>. [Laughter] You must be cranking them out every six months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Well some of them are just really short. [Laughter] I\u2019ve got some really, really short ones\u2014like children\u2019s-book length probably\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> \u2014just to add to the total count.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were impacting people socially on the internet before anybody was really doing it. You have literally, for two decades at least, really impacted marriages. And then you start this thing\u2014you\u2019ve got to tell me what this means: Naked Marriage\u2014that\u2019s your ministry; that\u2019s your podcast. The book we\u2019re going to dive in today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s compelling. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014is <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>. Obviously, you have a title like Naked Marriage; that gets people interested. What\u2019s that all about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> It does; we\u2019re not part of a nudist colony\u2014[Laughter]\u2014just to clarify. Naked Marriage goes back to God\u2019s original design for marriage. The first picture He gave us of marriage is in Genesis, Chapter 2\u2014He says that that first couple, Adam and Eve\u2014they were naked and unashamed. That nakedness wasn\u2019t just a picture of physical intimacy, even though that\u2019s a beautiful part of it; but it\u2019s a picture of having nothing to hide from each other and being completely vulnerable\/completely open. And that\u2019s what God desires for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve tried to build our own marriage that way through all of God\u2019s principles for what a marriage should be\u2014and just be a safe place, where other couples can talk about it\u2014whether it\u2019s sending us messages online, which was happening long before we ever had a podcast or were doing marriage ministry, full time, the way we are now. We\u2019re just trying to point people back to God\u2019s design in a world that\u2019s gotten really confused about issues around sex and marriage, and what it all means, and what its all supposed to look like. God\u2019s perfect plan is still perfect, and we\u2019re just trying to help point people back to that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes\u2014and it\u2019s one of the things I really appreciate about your ministry\u2014is it\u2019s biblical; I mean, it\u2019s centered on the Word of God. It\u2019s vulnerable\u2014that\u2019s the naked part\u2014you know, naked and unashamed. You\u2019re always helping; you\u2019re literally helping couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s real interesting\u2014as I picked up your latest book, <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>, it really gets into what we started with\u2014the mind and the emotions; how that affects a marriage\u2014the body or the physical, and the spiritual. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the thing: before we even dive into that\u2014because I really want to talk about where we started today: the emotional part of a marriage\u2014but one of the things that we do; and we got to talk about this now, because there\u2019s a promotion going on right now with FamilyLife, where you can go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway half off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Nice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you\u2019re wired like me, I say, \u201cYes,\u201d to half off; so I\u2019m going to go. You can go to any one of 60 different marriage conferences around the country. You go to FamilyLifeToday.com; you can find a marriage conference near you, or you can go to a destination one if you want and spend Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday morning learning how to build a marriage that God wants you to have. It\u2019s a great weekend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It really, truly changed our marriage; it changed our life. I feel like it changed our legacy. To get half off is an amazing deal off that registration price.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so I\u2019d say, even right now, go online\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014sign up. Have a great weekend; it\u2019s going to literally change your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlright! So <em>now<\/em>, talk about the emotional part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have your own personal story of how this played out in your marriage, where this\u2014the mental and emotional part\u2014affected you in your marriage in a negative way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Very much so. Dave and I got married pretty young; I was actually still in college when we got married. Dave graduated from college one weekend; we got married the next weekend. He started working for the college that I was attending. It was just this fairytale for us; and being na\u00efve and being very young, we just thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve got this.\u201d We were also both communication majors; and so we thought, \u201cWe know how to communicate, and our marriage is just going to be awesome.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cNo problem.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Exactly; \u201cNo problem.\u201d We get married\u2014and you know, we\u2019re in that honeymoon phase\u2014but very quickly, I just noticed that I\u2019m not quite myself. I\u2019m having trouble sleeping. I had these lingering, plaguing, negative thoughts and fears that I had a really hard time shaking off. And then\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ashley, before you go on, tell me about those thoughts and fears. What was going through your head?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh my goodness! Really, it was like an onslaught of just trying to\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014I think I went through an identity crisis, really, because we were actually having a little bit of trouble with some family members in the beginning of our marriage. It really threw me for a loop to be honest with you. It was very earth-shattering in my little world. It caused me to have a little bit of a: \u201cWho am I?\u201d because this relationship that I really had almost just depended on, and defined myself by\u2014was, all of a sudden, just crumbling to the ground. Things weren\u2019t really how I thought they were; it really sent me into a massive depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I started having\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is year one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> This is in the first year. It happened within like the first two weeks. It just\u2014I mean, it was like day after day\u2014I mean, the holidays would come; and it would get worse on the holidays. It was just <em>terrible<\/em>; it went on for several years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let me go to you, Dave. So here you are\u2014you\u2019re newly-married, like, \u201cOh, this is going to be <em>amazing<\/em>!\u201d\u2014and here Ashley is in this phase of life\/in this depression. Were you thinking, \u201cWhat just happened?\u201d Like were you doubting, \u201cWho is she?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> No, no; I <em>never<\/em> doubted, \u201cWho is she?\u201d; but I was still completely terrified at the situation. I knew who I married; I never had a doubt in my mind at all about that. I was so thankful, and have been every day of our marriage, that she\u2019s my wife; but I just didn\u2019t know how to help. I didn\u2019t know how to get us\/how to lead through that. I didn\u2019t know what <em>I<\/em> was supposed to do; I didn\u2019t know what <em>she<\/em> was supposed to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt became a time in our marriage, where we really had to lean on God like never before. It was a good way to start out in that way, because it forced us to realize the obvious; which is, \u201cWe can\u2019t do everything in our own strength. We need the Lord.\u201d That isn\u2019t just something we said; like that is something, in that moment, we had to live. We had to say: \u201cGod, help us do this. Show us what to do.\u201d God helped us in a lot of ways through that. It was a slow process. Usually, the healing happens in slow processes; unfortunately. We want it to happen fast, but it\u2019s usually a journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You were saying how many years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> It went on for, at least, four years. I can distinctly remember\u2014like you kind of with depression\u2014anybody who is listening to this, when you\u2019re first depressed, you kind of get used to it. You don\u2019t realize that\u2019s what you\u2019re going through, and you kind of chalk it up to sadness; or \u201cI\u2019m just having problems with this one relationship in my life,\u201d\u2014or whatever it is\u2014you call it circumstantial. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I\u2014looking back, I think it was actually probably even more than four years\u2014but definitely four distinct years, where I would\u2014I mean, I was crying; I would just cry all the time. I literally, just like the commercials you see on TV for antidepressants, I literally felt like this little dark cloud was following me around; and I didn\u2019t want to do the things I once enjoyed. I just\/I just felt like a shell of a person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember that\u2019s when the enemy came in and just really played on that. It was like he just tried to <em>mess<\/em> with me even more and started kind of feeding me these lies\u2014like: \u201cYou know what? Dave\u2019s going to leave you. You\u2019re not really the woman he married anymore,\u201d and \u201cAre you really saved? Are you really saved if you are thinking these dark thoughts,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if you\u2019re doubting God?\u201d or \u201c\u2026you\u2019re questioning your marriage?\u201d\u2014or whatever it is\u2014\u201cHow dare you even think that\u201d; like, \u201cYou should be ashamed.\u201d I just had all those really terrible lies going through my mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt got <em>really<\/em> dark kind of in the midst of that four-year journey, of even thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I even want to live,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t know if I really want to continue living. If this is living, I don\u2019t want it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And talk about, spiritually, what did you feel? What were you <em>praying<\/em> in that time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I would pray; I will tell you there\u2019s never been another time in my life where I\u2019ve cried out to the Lord so much. I did go to Christian counseling; that was a game-changer for me. My Christian\/I actually went to two different ones, because we moved kind of in the middle of my depression. Both of my counselors really kind of helped me to do what the Bible says to do: to take your thoughts captive and to replace them with God\u2019s truth. That was something that I had to learn. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn those moments, when I was crying out to God, I\u2019ve never felt Him so close [before]. I literally felt the verse that says He is close to the brokenhearted. Over time, I could see Him giving me beauty for my ashes\u2014because I did; I felt like ashes\u2014I felt like the beautiful life I thought I was going to live with Dave. At the time, I had small children. Even when I was going through this, I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s just burning in flames,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m the one; it\u2019s <em>me<\/em>. It\u2019s <em>my<\/em> fault.\u201d I just had to learn that mental illness is no respecter of persons\u2014Christian or not\u2014we can go through this. But God is our healer, and with His help\u2014and if you\u2019re married, please help your spouse; lean into your spouse in this\u2014but with helping each other through this, you can come through it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve been on the other side of this for <em>years<\/em>\u2014praise Jesus\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve been free from anxiety and depression for <em>years<\/em>; and I\u2019m so, so grateful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you guys have met people that the spouse <em>hasn\u2019t<\/em> responded the way Dave responded to you, Ashley. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Have you seen a negative toll that it plays out if you don\u2019t respond in a kind, and generous, and grace-giving way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Absolutely. I didn\u2019t know what to say during those times\u2014like I didn\u2019t have any\/there was nothing magical that I said or did that helped\u2014but I just knew, \u201cI just need to make sure she knows she\u2019s not going to face this alone.\u201d I just reminded her, over and over, that: \u201cI\u2019m here. We\u2019re going to get through this together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was not a perfect husband back then; I don\u2019t want to paint this picture that I was this rock, who was doing everything right; because I was like, in my own ways, kind of messed up then. I was struggling; I felt inadequate and insecure, because I didn\u2019t completely know how to help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you are dealing with depression or anxiety, the way that Ashley was, some of the things she did\u2014that I just commend her for that God really blessed and used\u2014is like, number one, she chose to hold onto God\u2019s promises, even when she was <em>feeling<\/em> something different. Our culture kind of says: \u201cYour feelings are always right,\u201d \u201cYour feelings are your god,\u201d \u201cYour feelings are your truth, and you just hold onto that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut she said, \u201cNo, my feelings are lying to me right now. My feelings are <em>real<\/em>\u2014I mean, they\u2019re real; and I\u2019m feeling the weight of the world on my shoulders\u2014but even though I don\u2019t feel it right now, I\u2019m holding onto God\u2019s promises that He\u2019s good; He\u2019s with me; He\u2019s for me; and that I\u2019m going to get through this.\u201d She kept feeding her mind things that reinforced that message. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe was so disciplined in saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to read the Word today, even though I\u2019m not feeling it. I\u2019m going to put God\u2019s Word in my mind through what I\u2019m listening to and what I\u2019m watching. I\u2019m going to surround myself with people, who love me, and encouraging voices; because I know I\u2019m really vulnerable right now. If I\u2019m listening to the wrong voices, it could have a really negative impact. I\u2019m going to get into counseling.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHealing can happen; God <em>wants<\/em> you to live with healing. He\u2019s not given us a spirit of fear; He wants to give you a spirit of a sound mind. If you don\u2019t feel that right now, don\u2019t beat yourself up. Don\u2019t convince yourself that it\u2019s because you\u2019re some kind of terrible sinner. This is just part of being a human being. Sometimes, we deal with brokenness; but God wants to carry you through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, did either one of you guys ever feel like or sort of <em>blame<\/em> your marriage for the problems you were having? I think, often, we can get in a marriage\u2014and you go through something like what Ashley was going through\u2014and you [say], \u201cWell, if I wouldn\u2019t have married you\u2026\u201d or \u201cIf I wouldn\u2019t have got married, I\u2019d be in a different place; I\u2019d be okay.\u201d It\u2019s easy to blame the marriage when the marriage isn\u2019t the problem, but did you find yourself ever doing that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> One thing I have <em>not<\/em> struggled with is saying, like, \u201cOh man, I wish I would have not married her.\u201d Like I\u2019ve really\/honestly, I\u2019ve had all kinds of terrible thoughts, and dumb thoughts, and sinful thoughts; but that thought has never really entered my mind. I\u2019m like, \u201cI <em>know<\/em>\/I know that I\u2019m with the person that I\u2019m meant to be with for my whole life.\u201d I\u2019m so thankful for her; even in our toughest time\/in <em>her<\/em> darkest time, I was <em>so thankful<\/em> to be her husband. If anything, I just felt more of a sense of urgency to remind her of that; because <em>she<\/em> didn\u2019t believe that, even though it was true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, our feelings can lie to us; so I just tried to remind her every way I could, like: \u201cI love you so much,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m so honored to get to be your husband,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to get through this together.\u201d Her mind wouldn\u2019t let her believe it at the time, but it was true; and I kept saying it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Well, I would even say things like, \u201cHey, I know I\u2019m not keeping my end of the bargain here,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m not really who you married; and I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m ever going to be that woman again, so if you want to leave it\u2019s okay.\u201d I would literally say that; and every time, he would say, \u201c<em>Ashley<\/em>, I am not going anywhere.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh my gosh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a true gift\u2014that we can say that to our spouse\u2014when they\u2019re struggling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking, too, of Romans 12:2; and I <em>love<\/em> that Scripture: \u201cDo not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed\u201d\u2014how?\u2014\u201cby the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God\u2019s will is: His good, pleasing and perfect will.\u201d I think\u2014not being conformed to the world but being transformed by the renewing of our minds\u2014when I was going through my grieving of my sister\u2014and I would say that\u2019s probably the time in my life where I was the most depressed; would you say that, Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh yes; yes, definitely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I found myself the same, Ashley\u2014like my mind is reeling of: \u201cWhat kind of God would take this 44-year-old woman, who has four kids?\u201d\u2014and then I would be asking, like, \u201cWhat if that happens to me?\u201d Your mind goes crazy, especially at night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLearning to take those thoughts captive\u2014man, that was <em>hard<\/em>\u2014because my whole life, I\u2019d just let my mind go. When you think of captivity, you think of a cage; like you\u2019re going to put those thoughts in a cage and not let them run wild. Learning how to do that can take some time. How did you\/like what was your discipline? How did <em>you<\/em> do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> One of the most helpful things to me\u2014I actually read a book\u2014and it\u2019s an old Beth Moore book; okay? It\u2019s called <em>Praying God\u2019s Word<\/em>. One thing Beth Moore put in that book\u2014but this is something anyone listening could do on their own\u2014is there was like a perforated section with just Scripture. She had a little blurb in there, saying like, \u201cListen, even Jesus Himself when He was going through his hardest time in the desert and being tempted, He would quote Scripture to the enemy. He would say, \u2018No, no, no; this is what God says\u2026\u2019 out loud.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI did that; and I still, from time to time, do that. It was just Proverbs 3:5-6, not trusting in my own understanding. Because at that time, I literally couldn\u2019t trust my own understanding; because my mind was not healthy. It helped me by putting different verses like that\u2014it just really helped bathe\/kind of wash my mind with God\u2019s truth\u2014and it renewed it over time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the things we tend to focus on\u2014actually, this is a Lysa TerKeurst quote that I love\u2014she says, \u201cThe mind feasts on what it focuses on.\u201d I wanted to feast on God\u2019s Word; I didn\u2019t want to feast on the lies of the devil. I wanted to feast on His Word\/on His truth. Truly, when I was feasting on His word by just focusing on it, it\u2019s <em>healing<\/em>. I mean, His Word is healing; and it really, really helped me tremendously. I wouldn\u2019t have been able to get through that time without it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m just thinking of a listener\u2014maybe a couple is going through what you went through\u2014and I know we\u2019re not sitting here, like you never struggle again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it isn\u2019t like it was done and over; but you have helped so many. I\u2019m just thinking, \u201cMan, you\u2019ve given us like a prescription.\u201d And again, I know there\u2019s no step one, step two; but getting your eyes off of the problem and onto the Lord, getting them in the Word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that really impacted us in that time period [after Ann\u2019s sister\u2019s death] was worship music.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember we would go to church; and often, I would be in the band, playing. I sort of said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to play for a while. I want to be just standing and singing.\u201d We couldn\u2019t sing; we would just <em>weep<\/em>. I remember I\u2019d look over, and Ann was on her knees, just weeping\u2014could barely get the words out\u2014but being in [His] presence and going vertical was <em>powerful<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There was something about, when you worship, your heart has to become soft and absorbs. Whereas before, wherever I\u2019d go, I\u2019d shut down my heart; because it hurt too bad. But when music came\u2014and worship music\u2014the intimacy of God\u2019s words tended to just pour into my heart. I would just cry, because the emotion of it. I feel like that\u2019s super healing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would just say, if you want more of this, pick up <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>; because the whole first section of the book is really this story and how you managed to get through it. That\u2019s going to help you as well, so go get it today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember hearing someone say once that all of us would like to think that our worst day is not what defines us; it\u2019s not what we\u2019re known for in life. In the same way, in marriage, we\u2019d like to think that our greatest struggle, our greatest weakness, the thing we wrestle with is not what defines us in our spouse\u2019s eyes. That doesn\u2019t mean that we ignore or gloss over the very real issues that we\u2019re all wrestling with. It means that in marriage we are to be\u2014to use the words Dan Allender used once\u2014we are to be intimate allies. We\u2019re to be working together for our mutual good in marriage and for God\u2019s glory. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is one of the things we focus on at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. These two-and-a-half-day getaways, held in cities all across the country, are designed to be an opportunity for couples to be refreshed and equipped in the basics of what it means to have a healthy, strong, godly marriage. We have a whole season of these events about to kick off next month. We want to encourage you to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and find out when a getaway is coming to a city near where you live. Decide, now, that you\u2019re going to <em>invest<\/em> in your marriage this spring at one of our getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you register this week, you and your spouse will save 50 percent off the regular registration fee; so you can attend a getaway for essentially half price. You just need to sign up this week to take advantage of this special offer. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for more information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. Find out when one is coming to a city near where you live and then register online; or if you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019d be happy to answer any questions you have and help you with your registration. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Plan to join us this spring at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, while you\u2019re on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, look for more information about Dave and Ashley Willis\u2019 book, <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>, all about being transparent with one another in marriage, being emotionally vulnerable, being connected at the deepest level. We have copies of the Willis\u2019s book available. You can order it online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book is <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em> by Dave and Ashley Willis. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Dave and Ashley Willis are going to rejoin us to talk about the importance of our physical health when it comes to our marital oneness. Why is it important that we be physically healthy? I hope you\u2019re able to join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"duration":["00:37:08"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["33.99M"],"filesize_raw":["35644409"],"_edit_lock":["1734710556:47000"],"_seopress_robots_canonical":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-emotional-health-matters-for-your-marriage\/"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307372.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307372.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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emotional health a big deal in marriage? Bestselling authors Dave &amp; Ashley Willis share their story--and how vulnerability became their game changer.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Naked Marriage goes back to God\u2019s original design for marriage. The first picture He gave us of marriage is in Genesis, Chapter 2\u2014He says that that first couple, Adam and Eve\u2014they were naked and unashamed. That nakedness wasn\u2019t just a picture of physical intimacy, even though that\u2019s a beautiful part of it; but it\u2019s a picture of having nothing to hide from each other, being completely vulnerable\/completely open. And that\u2019s what God desires for marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So we don\u2019t often talk about 1999 in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, 1999; ooh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was one of the tougher years; why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I lost my very best friend to cancer, and it was my sister. She\u2019s my best friend; she led me to Jesus. She died of [emotion in voice]\u2014gosh, I get teary talking about it\u2014she died of lung cancer. My parents had never smoked, and she never did. She was gone within five months, leaving her four sons; and it was really a <em>dark<\/em> time for us in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, it was dark for you; it was dark for everyone really. And as your husband, I\u2019ve always said\u2014you know this\u2014one of the things I <em>love<\/em> about Ann Wilson is your StrengthsFinders [assessment]: like number two is positivity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you walk in the kitchen one day, and you\u2019re not positive, I like fall on the floor. [Laughter] I can barely function, which is like I\u2019m so codependent on your positivity; but you went through\/our marriage went through 18 months; didn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I was grieving; and I could not conjure up <em>anything<\/em>. I was just at a dark, dark place, questioning everything; and I felt like I had absolutely <em>nothing<\/em> to give.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can remember the day I heard you laugh in the garage; I was in the kitchen. I think it was two years that I hadn\u2019t heard you laugh\/like belly laugh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re bringing that up because when one of the spouses, or both, are really struggling emotionally or mentally, it can really impact a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think it can lead one or both of you reeling, not knowing where to go, what to do. You\u2019re wondering, \u201cWill our marriage survive this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so I\u2019m excited because we\u2019ve got two friends in the studio today, Dave and Ashley Willis, who\u2014I didn\u2019t say Dave and Ann Wilson\u2014Dave and Ashley Willis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re sitting over there, being so polite. You know you can\u2019t interrupt us, and here you are sitting in the studio. You guys have this <em>amazing<\/em> ministry that you have committed\u2014has it been two decades or so of your lives?\u2014to helping marriages, like what we just described, <em>thrive<\/em> in the midst of good times and tough times; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, it\u2019s, you know, we definitely have walked through some dark times, just like what you described. Yes, it\u2019s our heart to help people navigate these things. Because it\u2019s those times that, even though we are personally going through a hard time, I think we can turn and kind of put it on our spouse and think: \u201cOh, did I marry the wrong person?\u201d or \u201cMaybe the <em>marriage<\/em> is the problem. Maybe it\u2019s <em>all<\/em> their fault after all.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we want to help couples\u2014just like you guys are doing\u2014you know, help them see they can get through these hard times and, not only that, that there\u2019s really kind of a strength you find on the other side of that. When you lean into each other, and really give it to God through that hard time, you can really grow stronger through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Tell us a little bit about Dave and Ashley Willis, because I know you\u2019ve written\u2014I didn\u2019t know this many: 15 books?\u2014is that right? That sounds like a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys are young! It\u2019s not like you\u2019re this old couple; you\u2019re <em>young<\/em>. [Laughter] You must be cranking them out every six months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Well some of them are just really short. [Laughter] I\u2019ve got some really, really short ones\u2014like children\u2019s-book length probably\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> \u2014just to add to the total count.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were impacting people socially on the internet before anybody was really doing it. You have literally, for two decades at least, really impacted marriages. And then you start this thing\u2014you\u2019ve got to tell me what this means: Naked Marriage\u2014that\u2019s your ministry; that\u2019s your podcast. The book we\u2019re going to dive in today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s compelling. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014is <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>. Obviously, you have a title like Naked Marriage; that gets people interested. What\u2019s that all about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> It does; we\u2019re not part of a nudist colony\u2014[Laughter]\u2014just to clarify. Naked Marriage goes back to God\u2019s original design for marriage. The first picture He gave us of marriage is in Genesis, Chapter 2\u2014He says that that first couple, Adam and Eve\u2014they were naked and unashamed. That nakedness wasn\u2019t just a picture of physical intimacy, even though that\u2019s a beautiful part of it; but it\u2019s a picture of having nothing to hide from each other and being completely vulnerable\/completely open. And that\u2019s what God desires for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve tried to build our own marriage that way through all of God\u2019s principles for what a marriage should be\u2014and just be a safe place, where other couples can talk about it\u2014whether it\u2019s sending us messages online, which was happening long before we ever had a podcast or were doing marriage ministry, full time, the way we are now. We\u2019re just trying to point people back to God\u2019s design in a world that\u2019s gotten really confused about issues around sex and marriage, and what it all means, and what its all supposed to look like. God\u2019s perfect plan is still perfect, and we\u2019re just trying to help point people back to that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes\u2014and it\u2019s one of the things I really appreciate about your ministry\u2014is it\u2019s biblical; I mean, it\u2019s centered on the Word of God. It\u2019s vulnerable\u2014that\u2019s the naked part\u2014you know, naked and unashamed. You\u2019re always helping; you\u2019re literally helping couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s real interesting\u2014as I picked up your latest book, <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>, it really gets into what we started with\u2014the mind and the emotions; how that affects a marriage\u2014the body or the physical, and the spiritual. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the thing: before we even dive into that\u2014because I really want to talk about where we started today: the emotional part of a marriage\u2014but one of the things that we do; and we got to talk about this now, because there\u2019s a promotion going on right now with FamilyLife, where you can go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway half off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Nice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you\u2019re wired like me, I say, \u201cYes,\u201d to half off; so I\u2019m going to go. You can go to any one of 60 different marriage conferences around the country. You go to FamilyLifeToday.com; you can find a marriage conference near you, or you can go to a destination one if you want and spend Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday morning learning how to build a marriage that God wants you to have. It\u2019s a great weekend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It really, truly changed our marriage; it changed our life. I feel like it changed our legacy. To get half off is an amazing deal off that registration price.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so I\u2019d say, even right now, go online\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014sign up. Have a great weekend; it\u2019s going to literally change your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlright! So <em>now<\/em>, talk about the emotional part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have your own personal story of how this played out in your marriage, where this\u2014the mental and emotional part\u2014affected you in your marriage in a negative way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Very much so. Dave and I got married pretty young; I was actually still in college when we got married. Dave graduated from college one weekend; we got married the next weekend. He started working for the college that I was attending. It was just this fairytale for us; and being na\u00efve and being very young, we just thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve got this.\u201d We were also both communication majors; and so we thought, \u201cWe know how to communicate, and our marriage is just going to be awesome.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cNo problem.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Exactly; \u201cNo problem.\u201d We get married\u2014and you know, we\u2019re in that honeymoon phase\u2014but very quickly, I just noticed that I\u2019m not quite myself. I\u2019m having trouble sleeping. I had these lingering, plaguing, negative thoughts and fears that I had a really hard time shaking off. And then\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ashley, before you go on, tell me about those thoughts and fears. What was going through your head?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh my goodness! Really, it was like an onslaught of just trying to\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014I think I went through an identity crisis, really, because we were actually having a little bit of trouble with some family members in the beginning of our marriage. It really threw me for a loop to be honest with you. It was very earth-shattering in my little world. It caused me to have a little bit of a: \u201cWho am I?\u201d because this relationship that I really had almost just depended on, and defined myself by\u2014was, all of a sudden, just crumbling to the ground. Things weren\u2019t really how I thought they were; it really sent me into a massive depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I started having\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is year one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> This is in the first year. It happened within like the first two weeks. It just\u2014I mean, it was like day after day\u2014I mean, the holidays would come; and it would get worse on the holidays. It was just <em>terrible<\/em>; it went on for several years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let me go to you, Dave. So here you are\u2014you\u2019re newly-married, like, \u201cOh, this is going to be <em>amazing<\/em>!\u201d\u2014and here Ashley is in this phase of life\/in this depression. Were you thinking, \u201cWhat just happened?\u201d Like were you doubting, \u201cWho is she?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> No, no; I <em>never<\/em> doubted, \u201cWho is she?\u201d; but I was still completely terrified at the situation. I knew who I married; I never had a doubt in my mind at all about that. I was so thankful, and have been every day of our marriage, that she\u2019s my wife; but I just didn\u2019t know how to help. I didn\u2019t know how to get us\/how to lead through that. I didn\u2019t know what <em>I<\/em> was supposed to do; I didn\u2019t know what <em>she<\/em> was supposed to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt became a time in our marriage, where we really had to lean on God like never before. It was a good way to start out in that way, because it forced us to realize the obvious; which is, \u201cWe can\u2019t do everything in our own strength. We need the Lord.\u201d That isn\u2019t just something we said; like that is something, in that moment, we had to live. We had to say: \u201cGod, help us do this. Show us what to do.\u201d God helped us in a lot of ways through that. It was a slow process. Usually, the healing happens in slow processes; unfortunately. We want it to happen fast, but it\u2019s usually a journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You were saying how many years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> It went on for, at least, four years. I can distinctly remember\u2014like you kind of with depression\u2014anybody who is listening to this, when you\u2019re first depressed, you kind of get used to it. You don\u2019t realize that\u2019s what you\u2019re going through, and you kind of chalk it up to sadness; or \u201cI\u2019m just having problems with this one relationship in my life,\u201d\u2014or whatever it is\u2014you call it circumstantial. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I\u2014looking back, I think it was actually probably even more than four years\u2014but definitely four distinct years, where I would\u2014I mean, I was crying; I would just cry all the time. I literally, just like the commercials you see on TV for antidepressants, I literally felt like this little dark cloud was following me around; and I didn\u2019t want to do the things I once enjoyed. I just\/I just felt like a shell of a person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember that\u2019s when the enemy came in and just really played on that. It was like he just tried to <em>mess<\/em> with me even more and started kind of feeding me these lies\u2014like: \u201cYou know what? Dave\u2019s going to leave you. You\u2019re not really the woman he married anymore,\u201d and \u201cAre you really saved? Are you really saved if you are thinking these dark thoughts,\u201d or \u201c\u2026if you\u2019re doubting God?\u201d or \u201c\u2026you\u2019re questioning your marriage?\u201d\u2014or whatever it is\u2014\u201cHow dare you even think that\u201d; like, \u201cYou should be ashamed.\u201d I just had all those really terrible lies going through my mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt got <em>really<\/em> dark kind of in the midst of that four-year journey, of even thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I even want to live,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t know if I really want to continue living. If this is living, I don\u2019t want it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And talk about, spiritually, what did you feel? What were you <em>praying<\/em> in that time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> I would pray; I will tell you there\u2019s never been another time in my life where I\u2019ve cried out to the Lord so much. I did go to Christian counseling; that was a game-changer for me. My Christian\/I actually went to two different ones, because we moved kind of in the middle of my depression. Both of my counselors really kind of helped me to do what the Bible says to do: to take your thoughts captive and to replace them with God\u2019s truth. That was something that I had to learn. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn those moments, when I was crying out to God, I\u2019ve never felt Him so close [before]. I literally felt the verse that says He is close to the brokenhearted. Over time, I could see Him giving me beauty for my ashes\u2014because I did; I felt like ashes\u2014I felt like the beautiful life I thought I was going to live with Dave. At the time, I had small children. Even when I was going through this, I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s just burning in flames,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m the one; it\u2019s <em>me<\/em>. It\u2019s <em>my<\/em> fault.\u201d I just had to learn that mental illness is no respecter of persons\u2014Christian or not\u2014we can go through this. But God is our healer, and with His help\u2014and if you\u2019re married, please help your spouse; lean into your spouse in this\u2014but with helping each other through this, you can come through it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve been on the other side of this for <em>years<\/em>\u2014praise Jesus\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve been free from anxiety and depression for <em>years<\/em>; and I\u2019m so, so grateful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you guys have met people that the spouse <em>hasn\u2019t<\/em> responded the way Dave responded to you, Ashley. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Have you seen a negative toll that it plays out if you don\u2019t respond in a kind, and generous, and grace-giving way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> Absolutely. I didn\u2019t know what to say during those times\u2014like I didn\u2019t have any\/there was nothing magical that I said or did that helped\u2014but I just knew, \u201cI just need to make sure she knows she\u2019s not going to face this alone.\u201d I just reminded her, over and over, that: \u201cI\u2019m here. We\u2019re going to get through this together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was not a perfect husband back then; I don\u2019t want to paint this picture that I was this rock, who was doing everything right; because I was like, in my own ways, kind of messed up then. I was struggling; I felt inadequate and insecure, because I didn\u2019t completely know how to help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you are dealing with depression or anxiety, the way that Ashley was, some of the things she did\u2014that I just commend her for that God really blessed and used\u2014is like, number one, she chose to hold onto God\u2019s promises, even when she was <em>feeling<\/em> something different. Our culture kind of says: \u201cYour feelings are always right,\u201d \u201cYour feelings are your god,\u201d \u201cYour feelings are your truth, and you just hold onto that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut she said, \u201cNo, my feelings are lying to me right now. My feelings are <em>real<\/em>\u2014I mean, they\u2019re real; and I\u2019m feeling the weight of the world on my shoulders\u2014but even though I don\u2019t feel it right now, I\u2019m holding onto God\u2019s promises that He\u2019s good; He\u2019s with me; He\u2019s for me; and that I\u2019m going to get through this.\u201d She kept feeding her mind things that reinforced that message. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe was so disciplined in saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to read the Word today, even though I\u2019m not feeling it. I\u2019m going to put God\u2019s Word in my mind through what I\u2019m listening to and what I\u2019m watching. I\u2019m going to surround myself with people, who love me, and encouraging voices; because I know I\u2019m really vulnerable right now. If I\u2019m listening to the wrong voices, it could have a really negative impact. I\u2019m going to get into counseling.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHealing can happen; God <em>wants<\/em> you to live with healing. He\u2019s not given us a spirit of fear; He wants to give you a spirit of a sound mind. If you don\u2019t feel that right now, don\u2019t beat yourself up. Don\u2019t convince yourself that it\u2019s because you\u2019re some kind of terrible sinner. This is just part of being a human being. Sometimes, we deal with brokenness; but God wants to carry you through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, did either one of you guys ever feel like or sort of <em>blame<\/em> your marriage for the problems you were having? I think, often, we can get in a marriage\u2014and you go through something like what Ashley was going through\u2014and you [say], \u201cWell, if I wouldn\u2019t have married you\u2026\u201d or \u201cIf I wouldn\u2019t have got married, I\u2019d be in a different place; I\u2019d be okay.\u201d It\u2019s easy to blame the marriage when the marriage isn\u2019t the problem, but did you find yourself ever doing that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave Willis:<\/strong> One thing I have <em>not<\/em> struggled with is saying, like, \u201cOh man, I wish I would have not married her.\u201d Like I\u2019ve really\/honestly, I\u2019ve had all kinds of terrible thoughts, and dumb thoughts, and sinful thoughts; but that thought has never really entered my mind. I\u2019m like, \u201cI <em>know<\/em>\/I know that I\u2019m with the person that I\u2019m meant to be with for my whole life.\u201d I\u2019m so thankful for her; even in our toughest time\/in <em>her<\/em> darkest time, I was <em>so thankful<\/em> to be her husband. If anything, I just felt more of a sense of urgency to remind her of that; because <em>she<\/em> didn\u2019t believe that, even though it was true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, our feelings can lie to us; so I just tried to remind her every way I could, like: \u201cI love you so much,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m so honored to get to be your husband,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to get through this together.\u201d Her mind wouldn\u2019t let her believe it at the time, but it was true; and I kept saying it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Well, I would even say things like, \u201cHey, I know I\u2019m not keeping my end of the bargain here,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m not really who you married; and I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m ever going to be that woman again, so if you want to leave it\u2019s okay.\u201d I would literally say that; and every time, he would say, \u201c<em>Ashley<\/em>, I am not going anywhere.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh my gosh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a true gift\u2014that we can say that to our spouse\u2014when they\u2019re struggling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking, too, of Romans 12:2; and I <em>love<\/em> that Scripture: \u201cDo not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed\u201d\u2014how?\u2014\u201cby the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God\u2019s will is: His good, pleasing and perfect will.\u201d I think\u2014not being conformed to the world but being transformed by the renewing of our minds\u2014when I was going through my grieving of my sister\u2014and I would say that\u2019s probably the time in my life where I was the most depressed; would you say that, Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh yes; yes, definitely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I found myself the same, Ashley\u2014like my mind is reeling of: \u201cWhat kind of God would take this 44-year-old woman, who has four kids?\u201d\u2014and then I would be asking, like, \u201cWhat if that happens to me?\u201d Your mind goes crazy, especially at night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLearning to take those thoughts captive\u2014man, that was <em>hard<\/em>\u2014because my whole life, I\u2019d just let my mind go. When you think of captivity, you think of a cage; like you\u2019re going to put those thoughts in a cage and not let them run wild. Learning how to do that can take some time. How did you\/like what was your discipline? How did <em>you<\/em> do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> One of the most helpful things to me\u2014I actually read a book\u2014and it\u2019s an old Beth Moore book; okay? It\u2019s called <em>Praying God\u2019s Word<\/em>. One thing Beth Moore put in that book\u2014but this is something anyone listening could do on their own\u2014is there was like a perforated section with just Scripture. She had a little blurb in there, saying like, \u201cListen, even Jesus Himself when He was going through his hardest time in the desert and being tempted, He would quote Scripture to the enemy. He would say, \u2018No, no, no; this is what God says\u2026\u2019 out loud.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI did that; and I still, from time to time, do that. It was just Proverbs 3:5-6, not trusting in my own understanding. Because at that time, I literally couldn\u2019t trust my own understanding; because my mind was not healthy. It helped me by putting different verses like that\u2014it just really helped bathe\/kind of wash my mind with God\u2019s truth\u2014and it renewed it over time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the things we tend to focus on\u2014actually, this is a Lysa TerKeurst quote that I love\u2014she says, \u201cThe mind feasts on what it focuses on.\u201d I wanted to feast on God\u2019s Word; I didn\u2019t want to feast on the lies of the devil. I wanted to feast on His Word\/on His truth. Truly, when I was feasting on His word by just focusing on it, it\u2019s <em>healing<\/em>. I mean, His Word is healing; and it really, really helped me tremendously. I wouldn\u2019t have been able to get through that time without it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m just thinking of a listener\u2014maybe a couple is going through what you went through\u2014and I know we\u2019re not sitting here, like you never struggle again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it isn\u2019t like it was done and over; but you have helped so many. I\u2019m just thinking, \u201cMan, you\u2019ve given us like a prescription.\u201d And again, I know there\u2019s no step one, step two; but getting your eyes off of the problem and onto the Lord, getting them in the Word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that really impacted us in that time period [after Ann\u2019s sister\u2019s death] was worship music.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ashley:<\/strong> Oh yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember we would go to church; and often, I would be in the band, playing. I sort of said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to play for a while. I want to be just standing and singing.\u201d We couldn\u2019t sing; we would just <em>weep<\/em>. I remember I\u2019d look over, and Ann was on her knees, just weeping\u2014could barely get the words out\u2014but being in [His] presence and going vertical was <em>powerful<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There was something about, when you worship, your heart has to become soft and absorbs. Whereas before, wherever I\u2019d go, I\u2019d shut down my heart; because it hurt too bad. But when music came\u2014and worship music\u2014the intimacy of God\u2019s words tended to just pour into my heart. I would just cry, because the emotion of it. I feel like that\u2019s super healing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would just say, if you want more of this, pick up <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>; because the whole first section of the book is really this story and how you managed to get through it. That\u2019s going to help you as well, so go get it today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember hearing someone say once that all of us would like to think that our worst day is not what defines us; it\u2019s not what we\u2019re known for in life. In the same way, in marriage, we\u2019d like to think that our greatest struggle, our greatest weakness, the thing we wrestle with is not what defines us in our spouse\u2019s eyes. That doesn\u2019t mean that we ignore or gloss over the very real issues that we\u2019re all wrestling with. It means that in marriage we are to be\u2014to use the words Dan Allender used once\u2014we are to be intimate allies. We\u2019re to be working together for our mutual good in marriage and for God\u2019s glory. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is one of the things we focus on at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. These two-and-a-half-day getaways, held in cities all across the country, are designed to be an opportunity for couples to be refreshed and equipped in the basics of what it means to have a healthy, strong, godly marriage. We have a whole season of these events about to kick off next month. We want to encourage you to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and find out when a getaway is coming to a city near where you live. Decide, now, that you\u2019re going to <em>invest<\/em> in your marriage this spring at one of our getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you register this week, you and your spouse will save 50 percent off the regular registration fee; so you can attend a getaway for essentially half price. You just need to sign up this week to take advantage of this special offer. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for more information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. Find out when one is coming to a city near where you live and then register online; or if you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019d be happy to answer any questions you have and help you with your registration. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Plan to join us this spring at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, while you\u2019re on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, look for more information about Dave and Ashley Willis\u2019 book, <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em>, all about being transparent with one another in marriage, being emotionally vulnerable, being connected at the deepest level. We have copies of the Willis\u2019s book available. You can order it online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book is <em>Naked and Healthy<\/em> by Dave and Ashley Willis. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Dave and Ashley Willis are going to rejoin us to talk about the importance of our physical health when it comes to our marital oneness. Why is it important that we be physically healthy? I hope you\u2019re able to join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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