{"id":307369,"date":"2022-01-13T08:02:08","date_gmt":"2022-01-13T13:02:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/together-forever-whats-it-take\/"},"modified":"2022-01-13T08:02:08","modified_gmt":"2022-01-13T13:02:08","slug":"together-forever-whats-it-take","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/together-forever-whats-it-take\/","title":{"rendered":"Together Forever: What&#8217;s it take?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Wanting &#8220;together forever&#8221;&#8211;but wondering if you married the right person? Counselor &#038; author Debra Fileta unpacks secrets behind lasting marriages.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p>Learn more about the Weekend to Remember<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app!<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Wanting &#8220;together forever&#8221;&#8211;but wondering if you married the right person? Counselor &amp; author Debra Fileta unpacks secrets behind lasting marriages.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:29","filesize":"24.25M","filesize_raw":"25426950","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2805,2820],"tags":[7001,2877],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9748],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307369","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","category-lifelong-marriages","tag-growth","tag-marriage","cwp_profile-debra-fileta","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307369\/together-forever-whats-it-take","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307369\/together-forever-whats-it-take","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"WyWKfCCFU5\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/together-forever-whats-it-take\/\">Together Forever: What&#8217;s it take?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/together-forever-whats-it-take\/embed\/#?secret=WyWKfCCFU5\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Together Forever: What&#8217;s it take?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"WyWKfCCFU5\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, a lot of our listener\u2019s know how <em>great<\/em> our marriage started out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It <em>did<\/em> start out great\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was great for about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because <em>you<\/em> were great!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014well, I mean for a month. [Laughter] It didn\u2019t last.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because they\u2019ve heard our story. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, we\u2019re laughing now because we\u2019re in year 41; but at the moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> At the moment, I thought there is nobody better in the world than Dave Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I love those moments when you thought that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It didn\u2019t last long. You didn\u2019t think that for two months\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014three months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, I thought it for <em>five<\/em> months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then at six months, I said, \u201cMarrying you was the biggest mistake of my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, you yelled that. That was a great moment in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The thing is I feel like most people are unprepared, going into marriage, of what the reality will be like; and so they get to the point where we were. Maybe, it is year one; maybe, it is year twenty; but at some point they think, \u201cWhat in the world has happened?\u201d They don\u2019t know what to do with that; because what we thought was: \u201cOh, I married the wrong person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and \u201cThe right person is out there; and when I find them, then it will be\/it will work\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But almost every marriage goes through our experience. Fortunately, we made it; but I think all marriages need help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we\u2019ve got help today in the studio. Welcome Debra Fileta with us. She\u2019s the author of a book called <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>; and you\u2019re going to help us, sort of, help couples get through the tough\u2014and it isn\u2019t always the <em>beginning<\/em> of marriage\u2014but it extends a long time; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, it can be any point in a marriage can be difficult. I think what you said is important\u2014to realize that everybody is going to get to that hard place at some point\u2014so when it comes, they\u2019re not shocked; they\u2019re prepared. I think there\u2019s hope in that, so I am excited to talk about this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re glad you\u2019re here. You\u2019ve not only written <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>; you\u2019ve written <em>five<\/em> books, and there\u2019s more to come. You know about marriage; we got to sit at lunch with you and John. You\u2019ve got three kids; you\u2019ve got a <em>full<\/em> life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra: <\/strong>Four kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Four kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Four kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Remember our surprise number <em>four<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One daughter, three sons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you guys have been married\u2014how many years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been married 14 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; and you have a great podcast. Tell us a little bit about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s called <em>Love and Relationships<\/em>; and it\u2019s a hotline-style podcast. People call in with their questions, and I answer their questions from my perspective as a licensed counselor. It\u2019s a really fun show.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, tell us this\u2014you know that\u2019s our experience in marriage\u2014did you guys have a similar journey?\u2014you and John?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, I would say very similar in the sense that you go into marriage with rose-colored lenses. You just feel like, \u201cThis is going to be so easy,\u201d and \u201cThis person is amazing,\u201d and \u201cNothing could go wrong.\u201d\u00a0 But what\u2019s so unique about that, and interesting about that perspective, we don\u2019t have that approach to any other area of our life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor example, my husband, like we talked about at lunch, is a surgeon. For him to become a surgeon, he had to get 20,000 hours of training. I had to get 3,000 hours of training to get my license as a therapist. How many hours of training do we need to get a marriage license?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This girl is on my soapbox right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019ve heard my wife say this so many times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I say this <em>all<\/em> the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Zero.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Zero!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> No training; there is no requirement. And I think the assumption is, because we\u2019re Christians, we\u2019re somehow going to be <em>good<\/em> at relationships. We forget: there\u2019s past baggage; there are issues\u2014there are things that we don\u2019t know how to deal with\u2014conflict, and communication, and the roots that run a little bit deeper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy hope for the message of <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em> is that we realize that a good marriage is made up of choices\u2014daily choices\u2014sometimes really hard, sometimes simple. But there are things we can actually do to begin to <em>train<\/em> for the process of a healthy marriage. It\u2019s almost like a muscle; you\u2019ve got to train that muscle, or its going to atrophy. It\u2019s not just going to be strong on its own. So what does it look like to train that muscle in our marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what is it about being a Christ-follower makes us think we\u2019re going\/it\u2019s going to be easier for us?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I think sometimes we tend to compartmentalize what it looks like to be a Christ-follower. We focus in on our spiritual health; but relational health isn\u2019t necessarily the overflow of that, because the roots run deep of things from our family of origin that we bring into relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn one of the chapters in <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>, I talk about the fact that we all come to marriage with certain walls\u2014ways that we communicate or <em>don\u2019t<\/em> communicate\u2014those <em>walls<\/em> are not healthy. For example, the wall of withdrawal; maybe, you\u2019re in the middle of a conversation that\u2019s starting to get uncomfortable, so your default is to withdraw.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This was Dave. Yes, keep going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You don\u2019t have to bring that up. [Laughter] I want to withdraw right now. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Dave is about to walk out: \u201cI\u2019ve got to go, guys.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You said, John, your husband was like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s a withdrawal tendency. It\u2019s like the inability to deal with these difficult emotions, so it\u2019s easier to kind of withdraw. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I <em>had<\/em> that. So talk about the wall of withdrawal\u2014or this this thing you bring into marriage\u2014so what do we do with it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, I think, first of all, recognizing that we have it\u2014you know?\u2014and understanding that some of those roots are things that you learn along the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> When it comes to dealing with conflict and communication, you\u2019re not born a natural communicator. You\u2019re not born knowing how to do conflict well. You learn, based on what\u2019s been modeled to you; you learn based on your experiences. So many times, the things that we bring into marriage, we\u2019ve got to unlearn and begin learning a healthier approach of what it looks like to say what we need. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Another wall is displacement. Displacement is when we have stress or emotional discomfort from something else, but then we take it out on our spouse. For example, one day I remember I was home with the kids. I didn\u2019t have four at the time\u2014three kids\u2014they were <em>all<\/em> sick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> You know what that is like; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no! Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Three little sick kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They are little, and they are young.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> They are little. There are diapers and noses, and everyone is clingy. John was like 15 minutes late from coming home from work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which feels like three hours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Exactly. He calls me on the phone, and he said something wrong\u2014I don\u2019t remember what it was\u2014and it was probably something mild. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Debra:<\/strong> But whatever it was, I was ready for a <em>fight<\/em>. You know, I was frustrated, annoyed; I had so much built-up emotion from the day. I took it out on <em>him<\/em>; I\u2019m <em>displacing<\/em>. That is the wall I bring into my relationship\u2014this displacement\u2014I\u2019m going to put it on him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother wall that I\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait; wait; wait. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s go back to this one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Oh, you want to <em>dive<\/em> into this one? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, even with that, I\u2019m thinking of wounds from our childhood\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that we bring into marriage that maybe we haven\u2019t even talked about, or acknowledged, or know about; but they are back there. Is that displacement? Maybe we have anger issues or wounds, can that carry through? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent. I mean, think of some of the insecurities we carry from our childhood. I worked with a gentleman, who grew up with a father who, in his household, it was dad\u2019s way or the highway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> He never felt <em>heard<\/em>; he never felt like he was good enough. Years later, he carries that same wound into his marriage. Whenever his wife gets close\u2014\u201cHey, can you do this differently?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, you think I\u2019m not good enough,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014because it\u2019s that displacement from the past that he is putting on <em>her<\/em>; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I just want to stick up for John here. Did you apologize to him later,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because it wasn\u2019t his problem? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t his fault. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You\u2019re a therapist.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra: <\/strong>I mean, I\u2019m sure he did say <em>something<\/em> wrong. [Laughter] One thing that we\u2019ve learned to do over the years is to be quick to acknowledge what we\u2019ve done wrong and quick to apologize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>, I say that a litmus test of your humility is how quick you are to apologize and how quick you are to forgive. I also spend some time talking about: \u201cA proper apology isn\u2019t just \u2018I\u2019m sorry.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>you<\/em> feel that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>you<\/em> feel that way\u201d; exactly. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are steps to really <em>owning<\/em> your role in the conflict. And where there is a conflict that involves two people, there are two people, who need to own something. Maybe, that percentage looks different\u2014maybe, it\u2019s not always 50-50; maybe, in some cases, it\u2019s 5-95\u2014but if you don\u2019t have a role in the problem, then you also have no control. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got to see that ownership as a <em>positive<\/em> thing. I think sometimes we want to: \u201cWell, I don\u2019t have walls. I didn\u2019t really do anything. This was all <em>your<\/em> fault\u201d; but if that\u2019s the case, then you actually have no control in the relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s really wise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How do you identify that? Even as you were talking earlier\u2014I don\u2019t know if you noticed this; and maybe, it wasn\u2019t true\u2014but I felt like, when you said, \u201cwithdrawal wall,\u201d my wife looked at me. When you said, \u201cdisplacement,\u201d my wife looked at me. When you said\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I have those, too, though, Dave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m just kidding; but it\u2019s like there were years of my marriage I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> even see it; I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> know I had them. And one of the gifts God gave us is your spouse can help you see things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what if you don\u2019t see it? How do you identify that you have some of these things in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, I think that\u2019s my hope: is that I can help you identify some of these things from a therapist\u2019s perspective. It\u2019s not your wife; it\u2019s not your husband telling you; but it\u2019s like, \u201cHey, here are some things to be on the lookout for. Do you do this in conflict? Do you handle things this way?\u201d There are reflection questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is no cookie cutter\u2014everybody looks different; everybody brings different <em>walls<\/em> into a relationship\u2014and you\u2019ve got to be able to recognize them by learning about them. If you don\u2019t even <em>know<\/em> what they look like\/if you don\u2019t have a name for these walls, you\u2019re not going to recognize them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that is the beauty of marriage. When God brings two people together, we do recognize things in our spouse; and they call it out. And we have a choice: if we are going to be defensive or if we going to <em>receive<\/em> it. I think the key is, too, how we respond to our spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll never forget the first time that I apologized to Dave in our marriage. He stopped; he was like, \u201cWait! Wait! What just happened?! Did my wife apologize to me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I actually wrote down the <em>date<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThis is January 3<sup>rd<\/sup>\u201d\u2014whatever. That was terrible, but I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t even realize I had <em>never<\/em> done [apologized], but there was this sense of pride in me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had this from my background\u2014this winner [mentality]\u2014like, \u201cYou have to win at everything.\u201d To apologize meant, \u201cOh, I had <em>failed<\/em>,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which made me a failure; it would take me into shame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember just thinking, \u201cHave I not apologized to Dave?\u201d He was so much more quick to apologize than I was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love that you\u2014maybe, you didn\u2019t say it in the right way\u2014but I think, when our spouse can draw attention to\u2014like, \u201cHmm, I\u2019m noticing something,\u201d\u2014instead of pointing a finger and accusing our spouse in a mad, angry voice. I think just to kind of point things out; that could be, really, a sweet gift from God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> It can be. I think part of the problem is, in many marriages, we try to withdraw before we deposit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> We call out the things we want them to change, which I consider an emotional withdrawal\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014before we\u2019ve made an emotional <em>deposit<\/em> of the things we love and appreciate. When your bank account is not filled up, emotionally, it is harder to make those withdrawals. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> That\u2019s an area I think we all have to be very cautious. Sure, it\u2019s easier to call out your spouse; but have you filled them up? Have you built them up? Do you have enough in the bank to be able to make this withdrawal\u2014this request\/point out this issue\u2014that needs to be changed? I think, if we start there,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014it would make a world of a difference in our relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which it is so interesting; because when we are dating, we deposit all day long, all the time. When you get married, you truly see one another. I know that it was really easy for me to point out all of Dave\u2019s flaws without making those needed deposits. I think that\u2019s really wise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDon\u2019t you [Dave] wish I would have done that a little more? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you know what is interesting about our journey over four decades is she is my biggest cheerleader. There is <em>nobody<\/em> in my life who believes in me\/affirms me. That wasn\u2019t always true. That did not happen for the first ten or so years; but after we had some hard conversations, and we understood some of the things you are saying\u2014not perfectly\u2014I\u2019m not kidding; I can\u2019t wait to get home. This woman loves me; she believes in me more than <em>anybody<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt times, I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m not that good, honey\u201d; but she\u2014and that is a deposit, deposit, deposit; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely, that is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So we have the wall of withdrawal, the wall of displacement; what else? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s talk about one more wall; and that is one that I often see that people don\u2019t recognize: sarcasm and humor. Sometimes, you come from a family, who their love language is humor and sarcasm. There is a place for that; and actually, that is one of the things I love about my husband is he is so funny and witty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then you realize that that can actually be used as a defense mechanism to keep <em>out<\/em> the hard conversations. It\u2019s like: \u201cWell, let\u2019s just crack a joke. Let\u2019s kind of be light and fluffy and fun without taking the time to go deep and really work on the things that need to be worked on.\u201d I think that\u2019s something people don\u2019t even recognize.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut all of these walls\u2014there are many more we could talk about\u2014but I think the <em>key<\/em> is understanding that we are not victims to these walls. One of my favorite verses\u2014this is all in one specific chapter in <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>\u2014one my favorite things was towards the end of writing that chapter. I was in the Psalms\u2014Psalm 18: \u201cWith my God, I can scale any wall,\u201d\u2014I was like, \u201cWhat a perfect verse to end that chapter with,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbecause it doesn\u2019t matter <em>what<\/em> you bring to the table from your family of origin; with some work and effort, you can scale those walls.\u201d God can help you bring down those walls in your relationship\u2014just like with you guys, ten years in\u2014for some people, maybe, it doesn\u2019t even have to take ten years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> If we can get to a point, where we are intentional and deliberate: \u201cThe more you know, the better you are going to do in marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As you speak to singles, what are the things you advise <em>them<\/em> to do? They may not even know any of these walls or their past history. What is your advice for them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, one of my favorite things about this specific book was that I actually did research to back up some of these chapters. The chapters are laid out in choices you can make each day\u2014you know?\u2014moving from pride to humility: \u201cWhat does that look like?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe walls chapter\u2014they are all kind of laid out as these choices you can make daily; but I took surveys of 1,000 singles and 1,000 married couples and compared their answers. Then, at the end of each chapter, there are reflection questions for couples; but there are also reflection questions for singles, because I believe that so much heartache can be saved if we start doing the work, standing alone. Can you imagine, if you can identify your struggles, standing alone, what you\u2019re going to bring to the table? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> And deal with some of that baggage, standing alone. You don\u2019t have to <em>wait<\/em> until you\u2019re married to start the training process. That\u2019s like joining the Olympics and then deciding to train that day; who does that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I mean, most of us do that with marriage; [Laughter] but that\u2019s not how you\u2019re supposed to do it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> If anything, we\u2019ve had training from the culture. Think about social media\u2014what that has done\u2014it gives us these expectations. And we all also carry training in from, maybe, our own families, which aren\u2019t always healthy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Exactly; some of that has to be <em>untrained<\/em>, <em>unlearned<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014so that we can learn things the <em>right way<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think singleness is the <em>time<\/em> to begin the process of dealing with the emotional baggage that we carry, recognizing our conflict styles, our walls, what we bring to the table, any hidden sins in our lives. This is the type of stuff that I would love to see this almost like a couples therapy session\u2014whether or not you\u2019re married\u2014walking you through some of the most important things you need to work on in the process of choosing marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019ve always said that, too: \u201cWouldn\u2019t it be cool if we were teaching this in our school systems?\u2014like how to get along with people. What is your conflict resolution bent?\u201d It would be <em>so good<\/em> instead of learning some of this long, crazy\u2014what did we learn in school? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I know; I wish they would. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014some of our mathematics; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> One thing that I found really interesting was that one of the questions I asked singles is: \u201cHow often do you think married couples spend time in quality conversation in marriage?\u201d The majority of singles said, \u201cHours per week; it has to be hours per week.\u201d But the majority of married couples reported 60 minutes or less; and the majority of them actually said it was more like 30 minutes or less <em>per week<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014per week; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014of quality conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, think about that. Think about the expectations we have going into marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; especially for <em>women<\/em>, like, \u201cWe\u2019re going to have these\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014versus the reality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \u201cWe\u2019re going to have these <em>long<\/em> conversations; it\u2019s going to be <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d Then we find our husband watching ESPN all day, and you are thinking\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Whoa, whoa, whoa! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Not you. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, not me of course; some other husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you\u2019re right; we walk in with expectations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But what would you say to a couple, listening right now, and they are stuck? Besides get <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>, and read it, and walk through the questions\u2014but a lot of times, when we get stuck; we hear this a lot when we are speaking at conferences\u2014the couple\u2014well, one of them\/usually one of them will come up and say\u2014\u201cAll the stuff you talked about, my husband does.\u201d They <em>won\u2019t<\/em> apply it to themselves; they apply it to their spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014which is the <em>easier<\/em> thing to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You see it in your spouse; it\u2019s hard to see it in yourself. Talk to that spouse that maybe can\u2019t see it. What do you tell them to do? How do they get out of ground zero and take some steps toward choosing marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> We\u2019re <em>so<\/em> connected in marriage; we\u2019re so intimately connected. It\u2019s almost like\/can you imagine with me two gears that are kind of working together, like in a clock? You\u2019ve got these gears. Think of you and your spouse like two gears that are interconnected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen <em>you<\/em> begin to move in the right direction, it naturally causes your spouse to move in the right direction. When you begin to make those deposits; when you begin working on yourself\u2014and your responses, and your forgiveness, and your ability to apologize\u2014when <em>you<\/em> begin doing the work, it will begin to change the narrative of your relationship\/the patterns in your relationship; because it takes <em>two<\/em> to have a pattern of some sort. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are feeling <em>stuck<\/em>, realize that the one thing you have the most control of is your actions and reactions in your relationship\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014your ability to share what you need, your ability to affirm your spouse, your ability to begin to heal and grow on your own. Nobody can <em>stop<\/em> you from doing that. I truly believe it will begin to have a significant impact on your marriage as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good work. It\u2019s like: \u201cLook in a mirror and start with me. Take your eyes off your spouse\u2014not in a bad way, but in a negative way\/in a critical way\u2014and put your eyes on yourself and say, \u2018God, change <em>me\u2019<\/em>; and in time, hopefully, that will change my spouse.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would add, Dave, too, to that is that Jesus is cheering you on. Your spouse may not notice at first or may not acknowledge what you\u2019re doing at first; but God does. He sees your obedience; He sees you praying; He sees you following Him. I would just add, \u201cAsk God for help, because He hears every time we call out. He hears us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That is a great reminder from Ann Wilson that God is on our side. He is cheering us on, as Romans 8 tells us: \u201cIf God is for us, who can be against us?\u201d In our desire to want to see our marriage be all that God wants it to be, He wants the same thing for us. He wants our marriage to be what He designed marriage to be. Getting there is what can be a challenge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a challenge that Debra Fileta has addressed in her book, <em>Choosing Marriage: Why It Has to Start With We Is Greater than Me<\/em>. You can find more information about Debra\u2019s book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Order it from us online if you like, or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen let me remind you about the special offer we\u2019re making this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. You and your spouse can join us for an upcoming FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway and save 50 percent off the registration fee if you sign up for the getaway with us today. We have a special offer that is going on this week and next week for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. You can join us for two-and-a-half days, where we focus on helping you build a stronger marriage: understanding God\u2019s design for marriage, His purpose and His plan, knowing how to resolve conflict, how to improve intimacy in your marriage, your roles as a husband and as a wife. All of that gets covered in the two-and-a-half day getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have more than four dozen of these events happening in cities around the country this spring. You can find out when a getaway is happening in a city near where you live by going to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link for the getaway. It gives you all the information you need. You can register online to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. If you have any questions about the getaway, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. The point of all of this is make plans now to spend a weekend investing in your marriage this spring. Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and register for a FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, and do it now so that you can save some money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more about the priority of oneness in marriage. That\u2019s God\u2019s design that two become one, and that can feel threatening. It can feel like you are going to lose yourself; but as we\u2019ll hear from Debra Fileta tomorrow, that\u2019s actually something that is glorious and wonderful. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:29"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.25M"],"filesize_raw":["25426950"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307369.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307369.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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\"together forever\"--but wondering if you married the right person? Counselor &amp; author Debra Fileta unpacks secrets behind lasting marriages.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, a lot of our listener\u2019s know how <em>great<\/em> our marriage started out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It <em>did<\/em> start out great\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was great for about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because <em>you<\/em> were great!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014well, I mean for a month. [Laughter] It didn\u2019t last.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because they\u2019ve heard our story. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, we\u2019re laughing now because we\u2019re in year 41; but at the moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> At the moment, I thought there is nobody better in the world than Dave Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I love those moments when you thought that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It didn\u2019t last long. You didn\u2019t think that for two months\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014three months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, I thought it for <em>five<\/em> months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then at six months, I said, \u201cMarrying you was the biggest mistake of my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, you yelled that. That was a great moment in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The thing is I feel like most people are unprepared, going into marriage, of what the reality will be like; and so they get to the point where we were. Maybe, it is year one; maybe, it is year twenty; but at some point they think, \u201cWhat in the world has happened?\u201d They don\u2019t know what to do with that; because what we thought was: \u201cOh, I married the wrong person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and \u201cThe right person is out there; and when I find them, then it will be\/it will work\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But almost every marriage goes through our experience. Fortunately, we made it; but I think all marriages need help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we\u2019ve got help today in the studio. Welcome Debra Fileta with us. She\u2019s the author of a book called <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>; and you\u2019re going to help us, sort of, help couples get through the tough\u2014and it isn\u2019t always the <em>beginning<\/em> of marriage\u2014but it extends a long time; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, it can be any point in a marriage can be difficult. I think what you said is important\u2014to realize that everybody is going to get to that hard place at some point\u2014so when it comes, they\u2019re not shocked; they\u2019re prepared. I think there\u2019s hope in that, so I am excited to talk about this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re glad you\u2019re here. You\u2019ve not only written <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>; you\u2019ve written <em>five<\/em> books, and there\u2019s more to come. You know about marriage; we got to sit at lunch with you and John. You\u2019ve got three kids; you\u2019ve got a <em>full<\/em> life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra: <\/strong>Four kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Four kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Four kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Remember our surprise number <em>four<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One daughter, three sons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you guys have been married\u2014how many years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been married 14 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; and you have a great podcast. Tell us a little bit about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s called <em>Love and Relationships<\/em>; and it\u2019s a hotline-style podcast. People call in with their questions, and I answer their questions from my perspective as a licensed counselor. It\u2019s a really fun show.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, tell us this\u2014you know that\u2019s our experience in marriage\u2014did you guys have a similar journey?\u2014you and John?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, I would say very similar in the sense that you go into marriage with rose-colored lenses. You just feel like, \u201cThis is going to be so easy,\u201d and \u201cThis person is amazing,\u201d and \u201cNothing could go wrong.\u201d\u00a0 But what\u2019s so unique about that, and interesting about that perspective, we don\u2019t have that approach to any other area of our life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor example, my husband, like we talked about at lunch, is a surgeon. For him to become a surgeon, he had to get 20,000 hours of training. I had to get 3,000 hours of training to get my license as a therapist. How many hours of training do we need to get a marriage license?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This girl is on my soapbox right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019ve heard my wife say this so many times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I say this <em>all<\/em> the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Zero.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Zero!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> No training; there is no requirement. And I think the assumption is, because we\u2019re Christians, we\u2019re somehow going to be <em>good<\/em> at relationships. We forget: there\u2019s past baggage; there are issues\u2014there are things that we don\u2019t know how to deal with\u2014conflict, and communication, and the roots that run a little bit deeper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy hope for the message of <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em> is that we realize that a good marriage is made up of choices\u2014daily choices\u2014sometimes really hard, sometimes simple. But there are things we can actually do to begin to <em>train<\/em> for the process of a healthy marriage. It\u2019s almost like a muscle; you\u2019ve got to train that muscle, or its going to atrophy. It\u2019s not just going to be strong on its own. So what does it look like to train that muscle in our marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what is it about being a Christ-follower makes us think we\u2019re going\/it\u2019s going to be easier for us?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I think sometimes we tend to compartmentalize what it looks like to be a Christ-follower. We focus in on our spiritual health; but relational health isn\u2019t necessarily the overflow of that, because the roots run deep of things from our family of origin that we bring into relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn one of the chapters in <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>, I talk about the fact that we all come to marriage with certain walls\u2014ways that we communicate or <em>don\u2019t<\/em> communicate\u2014those <em>walls<\/em> are not healthy. For example, the wall of withdrawal; maybe, you\u2019re in the middle of a conversation that\u2019s starting to get uncomfortable, so your default is to withdraw.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This was Dave. Yes, keep going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You don\u2019t have to bring that up. [Laughter] I want to withdraw right now. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Dave is about to walk out: \u201cI\u2019ve got to go, guys.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You said, John, your husband was like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s a withdrawal tendency. It\u2019s like the inability to deal with these difficult emotions, so it\u2019s easier to kind of withdraw. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I <em>had<\/em> that. So talk about the wall of withdrawal\u2014or this this thing you bring into marriage\u2014so what do we do with it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, I think, first of all, recognizing that we have it\u2014you know?\u2014and understanding that some of those roots are things that you learn along the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> When it comes to dealing with conflict and communication, you\u2019re not born a natural communicator. You\u2019re not born knowing how to do conflict well. You learn, based on what\u2019s been modeled to you; you learn based on your experiences. So many times, the things that we bring into marriage, we\u2019ve got to unlearn and begin learning a healthier approach of what it looks like to say what we need. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Another wall is displacement. Displacement is when we have stress or emotional discomfort from something else, but then we take it out on our spouse. For example, one day I remember I was home with the kids. I didn\u2019t have four at the time\u2014three kids\u2014they were <em>all<\/em> sick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> You know what that is like; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no! Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Three little sick kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They are little, and they are young.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> They are little. There are diapers and noses, and everyone is clingy. John was like 15 minutes late from coming home from work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which feels like three hours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Exactly. He calls me on the phone, and he said something wrong\u2014I don\u2019t remember what it was\u2014and it was probably something mild. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Debra:<\/strong> But whatever it was, I was ready for a <em>fight<\/em>. You know, I was frustrated, annoyed; I had so much built-up emotion from the day. I took it out on <em>him<\/em>; I\u2019m <em>displacing<\/em>. That is the wall I bring into my relationship\u2014this displacement\u2014I\u2019m going to put it on him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother wall that I\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait; wait; wait. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s go back to this one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Oh, you want to <em>dive<\/em> into this one? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, even with that, I\u2019m thinking of wounds from our childhood\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that we bring into marriage that maybe we haven\u2019t even talked about, or acknowledged, or know about; but they are back there. Is that displacement? Maybe we have anger issues or wounds, can that carry through? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent. I mean, think of some of the insecurities we carry from our childhood. I worked with a gentleman, who grew up with a father who, in his household, it was dad\u2019s way or the highway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> He never felt <em>heard<\/em>; he never felt like he was good enough. Years later, he carries that same wound into his marriage. Whenever his wife gets close\u2014\u201cHey, can you do this differently?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, you think I\u2019m not good enough,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014because it\u2019s that displacement from the past that he is putting on <em>her<\/em>; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I just want to stick up for John here. Did you apologize to him later,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because it wasn\u2019t his problem? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t his fault. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You\u2019re a therapist.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra: <\/strong>I mean, I\u2019m sure he did say <em>something<\/em> wrong. [Laughter] One thing that we\u2019ve learned to do over the years is to be quick to acknowledge what we\u2019ve done wrong and quick to apologize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>, I say that a litmus test of your humility is how quick you are to apologize and how quick you are to forgive. I also spend some time talking about: \u201cA proper apology isn\u2019t just \u2018I\u2019m sorry.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>you<\/em> feel that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>you<\/em> feel that way\u201d; exactly. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are steps to really <em>owning<\/em> your role in the conflict. And where there is a conflict that involves two people, there are two people, who need to own something. Maybe, that percentage looks different\u2014maybe, it\u2019s not always 50-50; maybe, in some cases, it\u2019s 5-95\u2014but if you don\u2019t have a role in the problem, then you also have no control. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got to see that ownership as a <em>positive<\/em> thing. I think sometimes we want to: \u201cWell, I don\u2019t have walls. I didn\u2019t really do anything. This was all <em>your<\/em> fault\u201d; but if that\u2019s the case, then you actually have no control in the relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s really wise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How do you identify that? Even as you were talking earlier\u2014I don\u2019t know if you noticed this; and maybe, it wasn\u2019t true\u2014but I felt like, when you said, \u201cwithdrawal wall,\u201d my wife looked at me. When you said, \u201cdisplacement,\u201d my wife looked at me. When you said\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I have those, too, though, Dave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m just kidding; but it\u2019s like there were years of my marriage I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> even see it; I <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> know I had them. And one of the gifts God gave us is your spouse can help you see things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what if you don\u2019t see it? How do you identify that you have some of these things in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, I think that\u2019s my hope: is that I can help you identify some of these things from a therapist\u2019s perspective. It\u2019s not your wife; it\u2019s not your husband telling you; but it\u2019s like, \u201cHey, here are some things to be on the lookout for. Do you do this in conflict? Do you handle things this way?\u201d There are reflection questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is no cookie cutter\u2014everybody looks different; everybody brings different <em>walls<\/em> into a relationship\u2014and you\u2019ve got to be able to recognize them by learning about them. If you don\u2019t even <em>know<\/em> what they look like\/if you don\u2019t have a name for these walls, you\u2019re not going to recognize them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that is the beauty of marriage. When God brings two people together, we do recognize things in our spouse; and they call it out. And we have a choice: if we are going to be defensive or if we going to <em>receive<\/em> it. I think the key is, too, how we respond to our spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll never forget the first time that I apologized to Dave in our marriage. He stopped; he was like, \u201cWait! Wait! What just happened?! Did my wife apologize to me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I actually wrote down the <em>date<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThis is January 3<sup>rd<\/sup>\u201d\u2014whatever. That was terrible, but I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t even realize I had <em>never<\/em> done [apologized], but there was this sense of pride in me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had this from my background\u2014this winner [mentality]\u2014like, \u201cYou have to win at everything.\u201d To apologize meant, \u201cOh, I had <em>failed<\/em>,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which made me a failure; it would take me into shame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember just thinking, \u201cHave I not apologized to Dave?\u201d He was so much more quick to apologize than I was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love that you\u2014maybe, you didn\u2019t say it in the right way\u2014but I think, when our spouse can draw attention to\u2014like, \u201cHmm, I\u2019m noticing something,\u201d\u2014instead of pointing a finger and accusing our spouse in a mad, angry voice. I think just to kind of point things out; that could be, really, a sweet gift from God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> It can be. I think part of the problem is, in many marriages, we try to withdraw before we deposit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What do you mean? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> We call out the things we want them to change, which I consider an emotional withdrawal\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014before we\u2019ve made an emotional <em>deposit<\/em> of the things we love and appreciate. When your bank account is not filled up, emotionally, it is harder to make those withdrawals. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> That\u2019s an area I think we all have to be very cautious. Sure, it\u2019s easier to call out your spouse; but have you filled them up? Have you built them up? Do you have enough in the bank to be able to make this withdrawal\u2014this request\/point out this issue\u2014that needs to be changed? I think, if we start there,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014it would make a world of a difference in our relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which it is so interesting; because when we are dating, we deposit all day long, all the time. When you get married, you truly see one another. I know that it was really easy for me to point out all of Dave\u2019s flaws without making those needed deposits. I think that\u2019s really wise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDon\u2019t you [Dave] wish I would have done that a little more? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you know what is interesting about our journey over four decades is she is my biggest cheerleader. There is <em>nobody<\/em> in my life who believes in me\/affirms me. That wasn\u2019t always true. That did not happen for the first ten or so years; but after we had some hard conversations, and we understood some of the things you are saying\u2014not perfectly\u2014I\u2019m not kidding; I can\u2019t wait to get home. This woman loves me; she believes in me more than <em>anybody<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt times, I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m not that good, honey\u201d; but she\u2014and that is a deposit, deposit, deposit; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely, that is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So we have the wall of withdrawal, the wall of displacement; what else? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s talk about one more wall; and that is one that I often see that people don\u2019t recognize: sarcasm and humor. Sometimes, you come from a family, who their love language is humor and sarcasm. There is a place for that; and actually, that is one of the things I love about my husband is he is so funny and witty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then you realize that that can actually be used as a defense mechanism to keep <em>out<\/em> the hard conversations. It\u2019s like: \u201cWell, let\u2019s just crack a joke. Let\u2019s kind of be light and fluffy and fun without taking the time to go deep and really work on the things that need to be worked on.\u201d I think that\u2019s something people don\u2019t even recognize.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut all of these walls\u2014there are many more we could talk about\u2014but I think the <em>key<\/em> is understanding that we are not victims to these walls. One of my favorite verses\u2014this is all in one specific chapter in <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>\u2014one my favorite things was towards the end of writing that chapter. I was in the Psalms\u2014Psalm 18: \u201cWith my God, I can scale any wall,\u201d\u2014I was like, \u201cWhat a perfect verse to end that chapter with,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbecause it doesn\u2019t matter <em>what<\/em> you bring to the table from your family of origin; with some work and effort, you can scale those walls.\u201d God can help you bring down those walls in your relationship\u2014just like with you guys, ten years in\u2014for some people, maybe, it doesn\u2019t even have to take ten years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> If we can get to a point, where we are intentional and deliberate: \u201cThe more you know, the better you are going to do in marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As you speak to singles, what are the things you advise <em>them<\/em> to do? They may not even know any of these walls or their past history. What is your advice for them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Well, one of my favorite things about this specific book was that I actually did research to back up some of these chapters. The chapters are laid out in choices you can make each day\u2014you know?\u2014moving from pride to humility: \u201cWhat does that look like?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe walls chapter\u2014they are all kind of laid out as these choices you can make daily; but I took surveys of 1,000 singles and 1,000 married couples and compared their answers. Then, at the end of each chapter, there are reflection questions for couples; but there are also reflection questions for singles, because I believe that so much heartache can be saved if we start doing the work, standing alone. Can you imagine, if you can identify your struggles, standing alone, what you\u2019re going to bring to the table? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> And deal with some of that baggage, standing alone. You don\u2019t have to <em>wait<\/em> until you\u2019re married to start the training process. That\u2019s like joining the Olympics and then deciding to train that day; who does that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I mean, most of us do that with marriage; [Laughter] but that\u2019s not how you\u2019re supposed to do it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> If anything, we\u2019ve had training from the culture. Think about social media\u2014what that has done\u2014it gives us these expectations. And we all also carry training in from, maybe, our own families, which aren\u2019t always healthy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> Exactly; some of that has to be <em>untrained<\/em>, <em>unlearned<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014so that we can learn things the <em>right way<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think singleness is the <em>time<\/em> to begin the process of dealing with the emotional baggage that we carry, recognizing our conflict styles, our walls, what we bring to the table, any hidden sins in our lives. This is the type of stuff that I would love to see this almost like a couples therapy session\u2014whether or not you\u2019re married\u2014walking you through some of the most important things you need to work on in the process of choosing marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019ve always said that, too: \u201cWouldn\u2019t it be cool if we were teaching this in our school systems?\u2014like how to get along with people. What is your conflict resolution bent?\u201d It would be <em>so good<\/em> instead of learning some of this long, crazy\u2014what did we learn in school? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> I know; I wish they would. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014some of our mathematics; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> One thing that I found really interesting was that one of the questions I asked singles is: \u201cHow often do you think married couples spend time in quality conversation in marriage?\u201d The majority of singles said, \u201cHours per week; it has to be hours per week.\u201d But the majority of married couples reported 60 minutes or less; and the majority of them actually said it was more like 30 minutes or less <em>per week<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014per week; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014of quality conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, think about that. Think about the expectations we have going into marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; especially for <em>women<\/em>, like, \u201cWe\u2019re going to have these\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014versus the reality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \u201cWe\u2019re going to have these <em>long<\/em> conversations; it\u2019s going to be <em>amazing<\/em>.\u201d Then we find our husband watching ESPN all day, and you are thinking\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Whoa, whoa, whoa! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Not you. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, not me of course; some other husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you\u2019re right; we walk in with expectations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But what would you say to a couple, listening right now, and they are stuck? Besides get <em>Choosing Marriage<\/em>, and read it, and walk through the questions\u2014but a lot of times, when we get stuck; we hear this a lot when we are speaking at conferences\u2014the couple\u2014well, one of them\/usually one of them will come up and say\u2014\u201cAll the stuff you talked about, my husband does.\u201d They <em>won\u2019t<\/em> apply it to themselves; they apply it to their spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014which is the <em>easier<\/em> thing to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You see it in your spouse; it\u2019s hard to see it in yourself. Talk to that spouse that maybe can\u2019t see it. What do you tell them to do? How do they get out of ground zero and take some steps toward choosing marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> We\u2019re <em>so<\/em> connected in marriage; we\u2019re so intimately connected. It\u2019s almost like\/can you imagine with me two gears that are kind of working together, like in a clock? You\u2019ve got these gears. Think of you and your spouse like two gears that are interconnected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen <em>you<\/em> begin to move in the right direction, it naturally causes your spouse to move in the right direction. When you begin to make those deposits; when you begin working on yourself\u2014and your responses, and your forgiveness, and your ability to apologize\u2014when <em>you<\/em> begin doing the work, it will begin to change the narrative of your relationship\/the patterns in your relationship; because it takes <em>two<\/em> to have a pattern of some sort. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are feeling <em>stuck<\/em>, realize that the one thing you have the most control of is your actions and reactions in your relationship\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Debra:<\/strong> \u2014your ability to share what you need, your ability to affirm your spouse, your ability to begin to heal and grow on your own. Nobody can <em>stop<\/em> you from doing that. I truly believe it will begin to have a significant impact on your marriage as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good work. It\u2019s like: \u201cLook in a mirror and start with me. Take your eyes off your spouse\u2014not in a bad way, but in a negative way\/in a critical way\u2014and put your eyes on yourself and say, \u2018God, change <em>me\u2019<\/em>; and in time, hopefully, that will change my spouse.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would add, Dave, too, to that is that Jesus is cheering you on. Your spouse may not notice at first or may not acknowledge what you\u2019re doing at first; but God does. He sees your obedience; He sees you praying; He sees you following Him. I would just add, \u201cAsk God for help, because He hears every time we call out. He hears us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That is a great reminder from Ann Wilson that God is on our side. He is cheering us on, as Romans 8 tells us: \u201cIf God is for us, who can be against us?\u201d In our desire to want to see our marriage be all that God wants it to be, He wants the same thing for us. He wants our marriage to be what He designed marriage to be. Getting there is what can be a challenge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a challenge that Debra Fileta has addressed in her book, <em>Choosing Marriage: Why It Has to Start With We Is Greater than Me<\/em>. You can find more information about Debra\u2019s book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Order it from us online if you like, or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen let me remind you about the special offer we\u2019re making this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. You and your spouse can join us for an upcoming FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway and save 50 percent off the registration fee if you sign up for the getaway with us today. We have a special offer that is going on this week and next week for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. You can join us for two-and-a-half days, where we focus on helping you build a stronger marriage: understanding God\u2019s design for marriage, His purpose and His plan, knowing how to resolve conflict, how to improve intimacy in your marriage, your roles as a husband and as a wife. All of that gets covered in the two-and-a-half day getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have more than four dozen of these events happening in cities around the country this spring. You can find out when a getaway is happening in a city near where you live by going to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link for the getaway. It gives you all the information you need. You can register online to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. If you have any questions about the getaway, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. The point of all of this is make plans now to spend a weekend investing in your marriage this spring. Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and register for a FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, and do it now so that you can save some money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more about the priority of oneness in marriage. That\u2019s God\u2019s design that two become one, and that can feel threatening. It can feel like you are going to lose yourself; but as we\u2019ll hear from Debra Fileta tomorrow, that\u2019s actually something that is glorious and wonderful. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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