{"id":307366,"date":"2022-01-11T08:03:09","date_gmt":"2022-01-11T13:03:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/intentionally-listening\/"},"modified":"2022-01-11T08:03:09","modified_gmt":"2022-01-11T13:03:09","slug":"intentionally-listening","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/intentionally-listening\/","title":{"rendered":"Intentionally Listening"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Would your spouse say they feel &#8220;heard&#8221;? Authors Kevin &amp; Marcia Myers help unearth a new level of intimacy through the power of intentionally listening.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:11","filesize":"24.89M","filesize_raw":"26100334","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2082,2849],"tags":[5481,2877],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9754],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307366","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-communication","category-drifting-apart","tag-listening","tag-marriage","cwp_profile-kevin-and-marcia-myers","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307366\/intentionally-listening","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307366\/intentionally-listening","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"nSUmQLw7DH\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/intentionally-listening\/\">Intentionally Listening<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/intentionally-listening\/embed\/#?secret=nSUmQLw7DH\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Intentionally Listening&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"nSUmQLw7DH\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> About ten years in, we figured it out; and we wrote Fair Fight Rules. Now, we were learning them all along.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I\u2019ll give you the first\/just the beginning of the principle: \u201cWhen you\u2019re under pressure, and you have conflict, you want to be <em>heard<\/em>. The objective is not to be heard, but to <em>hear<\/em>. So my job is to listen, and our rule is I have not listened until she says I have.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember sitting at the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway two weeks before our wedding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was a phenomenal weekend. In fact, I\u2019ve got to say this before we jump in: \u201cIf you want to go to a FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, sign up right now; because it\u2019s half off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; they\u2019re happening right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We paid full price in 1980! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We did! And you can get <em>half<\/em> off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and you can do that at FamilyLifeToday.com. I\u2019m telling you: it will literally change your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we were sitting there, engaged; two weeks from that Saturday, we were going to be getting married. And I\u2019ll never forget, Dennis Rainey was on the stage\u2014and you know, at the time, president and founder of FamilyLife\u2014and he said something like this\u2014and I know exactly, because it\u2019s in the manual; we now teach it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014he says, \u201cConflict is common to <em>all<\/em> marriages. All marriages go through\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what did you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cOh, what did you think?!\u201d I mean, we were sitting there, before we were getting married, and we both thought, \u201cNot our marriage!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I really thought, \u201cThere has been no one on the entire planet who has loved each other the way we do\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no one!\u201d I think every couple thinks that: \u201c<em>Nothing<\/em> compares to our love for one another.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember sitting around, watching all these couples take notes! We didn\u2019t take <em>any<\/em> notes. [Laughter] I just remember thinking, \u201cThey don\u2019t love Jesus like we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThey obviously don\u2019t love each other like we do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cThey\u2019re not going into full-time ministry the way we are.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And then we got married. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Was it a <em>week<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, it was like\u2014we had a <em>great <\/em>first five months. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We did?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay, so we\u2019ll say five months later. I mean, there were struggles; but we were <em>fighting<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014daily, if not hourly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014within five months. And I think many marriages experience that. We\u2019ve got to talk about that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I think, too, Dave\/I think a lot of couples get into marriage, thinking it\u2019s going to be great; and they don\u2019t have a handle on how to deal with conflict. We didn\u2019t. And that\u2019s what we learned at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we actually pulled that manual out <em>later<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we\u2019re going to get some help on conflict today as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019ve got Kevin and Marsha Myers back in the studio with us. They wrote a book called <em>The Second Happy, <\/em>which is a <em>great title<\/em> for a marriage book. It\u2019s like, \u201cThere\u2019s another happy available to us?\u201d You know, we had the first happy; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then we have a second; but anyway, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Thank you! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Glad to have you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Good to see you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you guys are pastoring in the Atlanta area.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> We are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> For thirty\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014<em>three <\/em>years?\u2014thirty-four?\u2014somewhere in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it is interesting; a lot of people in the church tend to think that pastors\u2019 marriages are just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014<em>perfect<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014wonderful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re like us\u2014we\u2019ve said from the stage\u2014\u201cWe have problems; we struggle.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you talk about in your book is how to do conflict well, so let\u2019s talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> [Laughing] Because we were <em>so <\/em>good at it <em>from the beginning<\/em>! [Laughter] We could have taught the conference you attended, but we weren\u2019t invited. [Laughter] So far from the truth!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting; because earlier, you\u2019ve already talked about that, Marsha, you kind of shut down a little more in conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Kevin\u2014I\u2019m guessing that you\u2019re coming in there, like pretty\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I\u2019m afraid so. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re <em>not afraid<\/em> to deal with conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> <em>No<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how did that go for you guys? How did you guys fight, or how <em>do <\/em>you guys fight?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Pretty much\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Poorly then!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014what he said; yes! He mostly was on the attack. It\u2019s not that I can\u2019t hold my own, but in my own way. As I said before, I\u2019m stubborn\u2014and also, the silent treatment kind of thing; you know?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014where then, \u201cI\u2019m going to ignore you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy best attack, I\u2019ll have to say, but not really godly, was on Sunday mornings when he was preaching,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014just having like\u2014looking at him and staring at him, like with arms folded.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, wait, wait, wait. Okay; to this day\u2014come on now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You did this?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014during the service?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did this too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re up there preaching, and you\u2019re in a conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> This is the part people don\u2019t understand when they say, \u201cWell, your marriage must be fine.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Listen; we have <em>learned<\/em> how to look better than we live, and a lot of people have that art.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And that\u2019s almost part of the pressure in pastoring, but let\u2019s not pretend it\u2019s limited to that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> People know how to come to church and look better than they live.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So gunny sacking conflict, or pushing it to the side, or just volcanically\u2014which, mine would be more volcanically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I would get pushed to rage, and I\u2019m going to be verbally aggressive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014get it off my chest\u2014simultaneously: \u201cYou ought to listen and perhaps agree with me.\u201d [Laughter] My conflict resolution style was: \u201cI\u2019m right. Listen, and you\u2019ll discover that. Agree with me, and we\u2019ll resolve conflict.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cThen it can all be over!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> For some reason\u2014I know people listening can\u2019t understand what I\u2019m talking about, because <em>no couple<\/em> has ever done this\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014but I couldn\u2019t understand; I used to say to her, \u201cYou know, people will come and counsel with me. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> It\u2019s true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThey <em>want <\/em>my advice!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u201cThey <em>want<\/em> my advice, and you dismiss it. Isn\u2019t that a clue to you?\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cBecause I am <em>smart<\/em> and godly.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Keep going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u201cAnd people love me!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand wise and discerning; and they love me. I don\u2019t know what\u2019s wrong with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what have you learned about conflict?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Probably the most helpful thing\u2014I don\u2019t know; I\u2019m overstating, perhaps\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014the most used thing by other people\/that they say has helped them the most is the Fair Fight Rules.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> About ten years in, we figured it out; and we wrote Fair Fight Rules. Now, we were learning them all along.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I\u2019ll give you the first\/just the beginning of the principle: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re under pressure, and you have conflict, you want to be <em>heard<\/em>. What\u2019s understandably broken all of us is that you think communication requires you being heard and that conflict resolution begins with them hearing you. The difficulty is [mistakenly believing], once you\u2019ve been heard, you\u2019re emotionally done; and that\u2019s the beginning of real communication and conflict resolution. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe objective is not to be <em>heard<\/em>, but to <em>hear<\/em>. That has been said through Scripture; that has been said in leadership circles; that\u2019s been said at marriage conferences. This is easy to say; it\u2019s incredibly complex to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of James 1.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That we should be \u201cquick to listen.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Ann, do you know what we do? We take Scriptures like that, and we read them to our spouse. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> The whole point of it was for <em>you<\/em> to take that in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I would read it and say, \u201cMarsha, be quick to listen. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cSlow to speak and slow to anger.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u201cHoney, that\u2019s what\u2019s broke right here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody has that challenge on one side or the other, so we set up what we call rules: Fair Fights.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> You watch them boxing or whatever fighting style you prefer that\u2019s in the legal realm. They set a time; they\u2019ve got rules. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have pre-fight set-up, and then we have Fair Fight Rules. It\u2019s three phases:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s communication, and that\u2019s four rounds; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s compromise, and that\u2019s four rounds; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tAnd if necessary, counseling; four rounds.\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not overly complicated. But if you don\u2019t know how to resolve conflict, you have to be <em>mechanical<\/em> before you\u2019re emotional, or you\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> build the capacity to resolve it; and that\u2019s what\u2019s hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> You get emotional because: \u201cThis is intense! And this is a person who\u2019s supposed to love you, and you don\u2019t feel loved. You feel rejected, or dismissed, or unheard; or \u2018You don\u2019t understand,\u2019 \u2018You don\u2019t care!\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first segment of communication\u2014and it\u2019s because she\u2019s already said I\u2019m forceful, and I am; [Laughter] I talk too much, and I know it\u2014and she talks too little, and she knows it. Now, listen\u2014if you\u2019re a couple, and you\u2019re listening to this\u2014part of communication is being honest with who you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re really\/you\u2019re looking at your differences; and now, you\u2019re honoring them; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re just different than I am, and that\u2019s okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cGod\u2019s made you a certain way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cAnd we all have things that have happened in our past that create some wounds that, maybe, shut us down or make us loud. I think that\u2019s a good thing to know, and it\u2019s okay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> That\u2019s true; very good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So for us then, the rules, Ann, had to be\u2014under Communication, four rounds\u2014first round is: \u201cShe speaks; I listen.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you can say nothing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> She <em>always <\/em>speaks first, no matter who calls the Fair Fight. So if we want to fight on something, and we\u2019ve got conflict, somebody has to call a Fair Fight. They have to explain it in about sixty seconds\u2014what it is\u2014we set a date and a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, give us an example; show us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Coming home late.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So what would you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u201cKevin, I want to have a fight.\u201d And you would be like, \u201cWhaaat?\u201d And I would say\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I like how you do him: \u201cWhaaat?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Pretty accurate!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> But honestly, almost always, whoever calls for the Fair Fight, the other one does not want to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> But because it\u2019s in the rules, we will; we obey the rules.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you say, \u201cI want to have a fair fight.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> The one who wants the fight has to declare what it is. I would say, \u201cYou\u2019re always coming home late. I have the dinner made, and we\u2019re waiting for you. I have children; they need to eat. We need to work this out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then we say, \u201cOkay.\u201d Instead of going into the fight right then, we decide <em>when <\/em>we want to fight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s really important. I cannot respond\u2014that\u2019s one of the rules\u2014I don\u2019t legitimize or dismiss her request.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I even try not to roll my eyes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good; because body language\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014tells a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And so we have to get out the calendar and decide: \u201cWhen are we going to fight?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, do you try to do it soon instead of waiting a week or waiting a day?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes; but if calendars are heavy, and with kids\u2019 activities, the kids have to be in bed for us at that season of time. We have to be emotionally capable to engage. Sometimes it\u2019s days down the road. It <em>has to <\/em>be concentrated time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things that would be good about this is you have time to pray.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, you could go one of two ways. I used to build my case in that time, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to say this, and he\u2019s going to say this; but I\u2019m going to <em>win<\/em>, because I\u2019m going to do this!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what I\u2019ve learned\u2014and I\u2019m sure you guys, too\u2014that gives you time, like: \u201cLord, check my heart. How should I say this? How should I bring it up? Is there anything I\u2019m missing?\u201d I like that it gives you a little time; that\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And it requires that of you. If you follow Christ, the Holy Spirit\u2019s going to do that, whether you\u2019re asking Him to or not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s just who He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, is it hard to not go into it right there? Because if Marsha\/I mean, Marsha used a word that we say at FamilyLife\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014\u201calways\u201d\/\u201cnever.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t use \u2018always.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So if Ann would say, \u201cYou\u2019re always late,\u201d I would be\/you know, \u201cWe can talk about this tomorrow, but I\u2019m not <em>always<\/em>\u2026\u201d; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So do you find yourself\u2014like I have to exercise self-control\u2014I <em>do <\/em>want to do it right now, and it\u2019s not going to go well if I do it right now. So you learn; you practice; you build the habit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s mechanical\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014versus emotional.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When we say, \u201cYou have to walk the mechanical process, not emotional.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s [emotional] what makes it nearly impossible to resolve conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> True.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Because when you express your emotions, you are rarely loving. Love is a <em>discipline<\/em>; it\u2019s not an emotion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> To value someone is a discipline; it\u2019s a <em>choice<\/em> you make. I have surrendered that we are one; and therefore, I care about this; because she cares about this. Therefore, she gets to call the fight. We set the time; she starts. Even if I call the fight, she starts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait, wait, wait. Why does <em>she<\/em> start?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> She always starts, because I\u2019m too forceful. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, so it\u2019s a choice in <em>your<\/em> marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I truly am\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014in our marriage. We don\u2019t think it\u2019s true for everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what we\u2019ve discovered: I cannot start without me <em>solving<\/em> it while I start; and I have got to learn to shut up, and she\u2019s got to learn to speak up. We\u2019re not going to build resolved conflict, authentic love, true companionship, and intimacy if we don\u2019t learn to communicate. Solving conflict is at the heart of communication. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I really like that you\u2019re even\/like it\u2019s a good conversation of who would start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking about that for us. I\u2019m sure people are listening, thinking, \u201cHmm; who would start in our relationship?\u201d I think you would start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad you think that, [Laughter] because I was thinking the same thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Dave, congratulations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Woo!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There we go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; so now, when you come to the actual fight, walk us through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Like he said, I would go first, no matter what.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t understand how you do that. If you have an issue, Kevin\u2014you\u2019ve already stated what it\u2019s about\u2014how would Marsha\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014start it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014start it, if she doesn\u2019t really know everything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Nine times out of ten, if you have a conflict in your relationship, you both know it; and you both have a different perspective. So when I call for a fight, and I say, \u201cI want to talk about finances; I want to talk about your spending.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, maybe you would know! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> I do exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> She immediately has an opinion. I want to talk about our parenting of Julisa, our daughter, our second child; and I have to say something about that. I say, \u201cI think we\u2019re over-disciplining her on this,\u201d or \u201cI think we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> addressing this,\u201d or \u201cI think we\u2019re over-investing in this,\u201d or \u201cThis is frustrating me; it seems like you\u2019re dismissing me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019ve given her enough that she knows.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Got it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I\u2019ve given a statement\u2014I <em>can\u2019t<\/em> go into it\u2014there\u2019s a difference between giving context and trying to win. I have to give context; we already know this. This is not: \u201cOh, we don\u2019t know we have conflict!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes; we <em>know<\/em> we have conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so even though you brought it up, she\u2019s still going to start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s how we\u2019ve done it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> And then after the first person gives their perspective, the other person\u2014instead of just automatically rebutting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014has to tell you back what they said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> My job is to listen. Our rule is I have not listened until she says I have. We have literally had fights, where it took <em>an hour<\/em> for us to do round one\u2014for her to speak and me to listen\u2014until she said, \u201cYou have heard me, head and heart. You have said what I said, and you\u2019ve said it with the right heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you restate back\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and you say, \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m hearing,\u201d\u2014and you go, \u201cNo, no, no, no; that\u2019s not what I\u2019m saying,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014until you get to: \u201cYes, you\u2019ve heard me; and you understand me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, you can go to the next round.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That process, however long it takes in the early stages of learning how to communicate, <em>always<\/em> shaves some of the rough edges off from a guy like me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014from anyone; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Whoever has this dynamic in them, the Holy Spirit will soften your edges.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Because we can\u2019t go on. Now, it\u2019s at that moment that you just want to be able to say, \u201cWell, there you go! You can\u2019t\u2026\u201d; and I want to just <em>run<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When you <em>quit<\/em> on communication, and you let conflict reign in your relationship, you\u2019re going to be alone; but you chose it. This is <em>hard<\/em> work. And we\u2019ve been doing this for a lot of years; so we don\u2019t have to do it with the mechanics that we\u2019re talking about right now,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014but we did for some years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So then, it\u2019s my turn once she says, \u201cI\u2019ve heard you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, she sometimes has to write her thoughts out to bring to me. I don\u2019t have to write mine out! [Laughter] I have them in my head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u201cLet\u2019s go! I\u2019m ready.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it\u2019s a good idea sometimes probably\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s very helpful!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to write it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So then, I get to share my perspective. She has to respond until I say she\u2019s understood me, head and heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when you have walked through those four, if you will, \u201crounds,\u201d you have accomplished communication. Everybody wants to solve a problem before they understand the problem. It\u2019s often broke, because you want to compromise before you communicate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy job is not to say, \u201cAlright, here\u2019s what I think the problem is; and here\u2019s what we\u2019ll do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Would you like to do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> <em>Every single time<\/em>. [Laughter] In fact, sometimes I <em>start<\/em> with, \u201cHere\u2019s what we should do, and here\u2019s why\u2026\u201d [Laughter] I <em>start<\/em> with the solution;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014so this discipline of communication <em>before<\/em> you find a solution.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Phase Two is four rounds of compromise. She has to give a solution. Then I make sure that I understand, and I give a solution. Then we negotiate until we find one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> And it does kind of help you understand the other person, too,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014as you\u2019re doing it, because [it\u2019s] something you wouldn\u2019t have thought of. I\u2019m not Kevin, and he\u2019s not Marsha; you go, \u201cOh, well, that\u2019s how he thinks!\u201d And now you understand how he thinks; so that the next time you have a conflict, you have that piece of: \u201cOh, he usually thinks this way; so maybe the conflict isn\u2019t what <em>I<\/em> think it is.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> You kind of mix the two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And the <em>beauty<\/em> is you\u2019re really getting to <em>know<\/em> each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right; exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly what you\u2019re saying, Marsha: you\u2019re <em>understanding<\/em> one another so much better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Ann, you asked her, at the beginning, to give an example of a fight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Let\u2019s play this out for people. Remember the \u201cYou\u2019re always home late\u201d? Let\u2019s take them to our compromise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> After we went through the rounds of communication\u2014and then we went to compromise\u2014he, of course, made his points of the fact that sometimes he has to go; he\u2019s a pastor!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> He has appointments, or something\/an emergency crops up; he can\u2019t help that. But there are other times when he just needs to finish something; you know? He wants to do it; wants to get it done. So we decided that we would set a specific time for dinner and that he promised he would be home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I agreed with her; I said: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI agree with you. You make a meal\u2014we\u2019re trying to build family\u2014we\u2019re in a season of building family. We said we value family <em>above <\/em>the work I do. I\u2019m valuing my work above our family, because we have a very small slot in which to engage in family togetherness. It\u2019s between 5:30 and 7:00, and I\u2019m blowing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will get up earlier. I will get these sections of things done for an hour or two at work, alone in the office; so that by the time I make it to the end of the day, I have margin. I\u2019ll be home at 5:30, and you can count on me. Now, if I\u2019m not, it\u2019s because there\u2019s an emergency; I\u2019ll call.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I\u2019m going to move it from the exception to the rule\u2014and vice versa, which means, as a rule, I was late\u2014I made that an exception. That honors her; that requires change for me; that puts our family in the place of value that we both said it had. And it literally changed the way I do my calendar and life. It changed the way I think!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> And I felt like, when he was late, there was a good reason.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> So it didn\u2019t create the same conflict or exasperation that it would have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When you solve conflict, you also solve future conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When you actually resolve conflict\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014you set up a marriage where you have less and less conflict over time, because you literally build the mutual honoring, mutual understanding, and mutual grace. We have all sorts of grace, because we know the other person is committed to one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and I <em>love<\/em> the concept you developed of \u201cmechanical before emotional.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because we often get in a fight, and we\/I\u2019ve done this, like, \u201c<em>Forget <\/em>the mechanical, we need to just\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because emotions take over; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s like, \u201cNo, no, no!\u201d You can\u2019t forget that; that is critical. It\u2019s like\u2014obviously, as a guy who played football and was around the NFL forever\u2014it\u2019s out of bounds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And when you step out of bounds, the play is over. There are rules\u2014mechanical\u2014and they help you get to compromise; they help you get to resolution. As you said so well, that helps you in the <em>future<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I\u2019m thinking of a couple right now that has not been able to fight well. You have just given them <em>tools<\/em> to help them fight well. If you forget, listen to this again. Better yet, get the book, <em>The Second Happy; <\/em>read through the chapters together and say, \u201cLet\u2019s implement this in our marriage. I think it will take us to a whole other place.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tConflict is every day. It\u2019s part of every relationship, every church, every team, every business, every family; and we don\u2019t get <em>any <\/em>training on how to do it well. Today\u2019s been a <em>training<\/em> session on how to do it well. Thank you; this has been <em>awesome<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you take a minute and look back on your life, I\u2019m guessing very few of us had any actual training in conflict and conflict resolution. What you saw in your home, growing up, may have been a destructive pattern; but it\u2019s all you knew. Or maybe you saw nothing; maybe your mom and dad never modeled for you what healthy conflict resolution looks like. I\u2019m guessing most of us have never had any kind of actual, formal training on resolving conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways that we host all around the country, we spend time walking couples through the biblical principles about conflict resolution that can help us get to a place where we actually resolve conflict, where we can be at peace with one another, where we can honor and respect one another. I mention that because, right now, there\u2019s a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners. If you\u2019d like to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, you can save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have three or four dozen of these events happening in cities all around the country this spring. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com; click the link to find information about when a getaway is being hosted in a city near where you live; block out that weekend; and then register today so you can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. This offer is good this week and next week only, so you need to act on this quickly. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to find out more about the getaway. Find out when it\u2019s coming to a city near where you live. You can register online. If you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY; we can answer your questions over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, make plans to come to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, not just to learn about conflict resolution, but about healthy marital intimacy, about God\u2019s purpose and design for marriage, about the roles for husbands and the roles for wives. All of it is covered at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. Again, you can register online right now at FamilyLifeToday.com and receive 50 percent off the regular registration fee.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile you\u2019re on our website, check out the book that Kevin and Marsha Myers have written called <em>The Second Happy: Seven Practices to Make Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon<\/em>, a great book for couples to go through together. If you\u2019re in a small group with other couples, this would be a great small group study to go through as well. Again, check out <em>The Second Happy <\/em>on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order from us online, or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more about how to address the hard-to-talk-about subjects in marriage, the elephants in the room. How do we wisely bring up important subjects that could be difficult to talk about? Dave and Ann Wilson will talk with Kevin and Marsha Myers about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:11"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.89M"],"filesize_raw":["26100334"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307366.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307366.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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your spouse say they feel \"heard\"? Authors Kevin &amp; Marcia Myers help unearth a new level of intimacy through the power of intentionally listening.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> About ten years in, we figured it out; and we wrote Fair Fight Rules. Now, we were learning them all along.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I\u2019ll give you the first\/just the beginning of the principle: \u201cWhen you\u2019re under pressure, and you have conflict, you want to be <em>heard<\/em>. The objective is not to be heard, but to <em>hear<\/em>. So my job is to listen, and our rule is I have not listened until she says I have.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember sitting at the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway two weeks before our wedding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was a phenomenal weekend. In fact, I\u2019ve got to say this before we jump in: \u201cIf you want to go to a FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, sign up right now; because it\u2019s half off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; they\u2019re happening right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We paid full price in 1980! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We did! And you can get <em>half<\/em> off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and you can do that at FamilyLifeToday.com. I\u2019m telling you: it will literally change your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we were sitting there, engaged; two weeks from that Saturday, we were going to be getting married. And I\u2019ll never forget, Dennis Rainey was on the stage\u2014and you know, at the time, president and founder of FamilyLife\u2014and he said something like this\u2014and I know exactly, because it\u2019s in the manual; we now teach it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014he says, \u201cConflict is common to <em>all<\/em> marriages. All marriages go through\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what did you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cOh, what did you think?!\u201d I mean, we were sitting there, before we were getting married, and we both thought, \u201cNot our marriage!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I really thought, \u201cThere has been no one on the entire planet who has loved each other the way we do\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no one!\u201d I think every couple thinks that: \u201c<em>Nothing<\/em> compares to our love for one another.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember sitting around, watching all these couples take notes! We didn\u2019t take <em>any<\/em> notes. [Laughter] I just remember thinking, \u201cThey don\u2019t love Jesus like we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThey obviously don\u2019t love each other like we do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cThey\u2019re not going into full-time ministry the way we are.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And then we got married. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Was it a <em>week<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, it was like\u2014we had a <em>great <\/em>first five months. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We did?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay, so we\u2019ll say five months later. I mean, there were struggles; but we were <em>fighting<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014daily, if not hourly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014within five months. And I think many marriages experience that. We\u2019ve got to talk about that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I think, too, Dave\/I think a lot of couples get into marriage, thinking it\u2019s going to be great; and they don\u2019t have a handle on how to deal with conflict. We didn\u2019t. And that\u2019s what we learned at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we actually pulled that manual out <em>later<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we\u2019re going to get some help on conflict today as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019ve got Kevin and Marsha Myers back in the studio with us. They wrote a book called <em>The Second Happy, <\/em>which is a <em>great title<\/em> for a marriage book. It\u2019s like, \u201cThere\u2019s another happy available to us?\u201d You know, we had the first happy; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then we have a second; but anyway, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Thank you! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Glad to have you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Good to see you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you guys are pastoring in the Atlanta area.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> We are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> For thirty\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014<em>three <\/em>years?\u2014thirty-four?\u2014somewhere in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it is interesting; a lot of people in the church tend to think that pastors\u2019 marriages are just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014<em>perfect<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014wonderful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re like us\u2014we\u2019ve said from the stage\u2014\u201cWe have problems; we struggle.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you talk about in your book is how to do conflict well, so let\u2019s talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> [Laughing] Because we were <em>so <\/em>good at it <em>from the beginning<\/em>! [Laughter] We could have taught the conference you attended, but we weren\u2019t invited. [Laughter] So far from the truth!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting; because earlier, you\u2019ve already talked about that, Marsha, you kind of shut down a little more in conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Kevin\u2014I\u2019m guessing that you\u2019re coming in there, like pretty\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I\u2019m afraid so. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re <em>not afraid<\/em> to deal with conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> <em>No<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how did that go for you guys? How did you guys fight, or how <em>do <\/em>you guys fight?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Pretty much\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Poorly then!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014what he said; yes! He mostly was on the attack. It\u2019s not that I can\u2019t hold my own, but in my own way. As I said before, I\u2019m stubborn\u2014and also, the silent treatment kind of thing; you know?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014where then, \u201cI\u2019m going to ignore you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy best attack, I\u2019ll have to say, but not really godly, was on Sunday mornings when he was preaching,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014just having like\u2014looking at him and staring at him, like with arms folded.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, wait, wait, wait. Okay; to this day\u2014come on now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You did this?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014during the service?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did this too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re up there preaching, and you\u2019re in a conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> This is the part people don\u2019t understand when they say, \u201cWell, your marriage must be fine.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Listen; we have <em>learned<\/em> how to look better than we live, and a lot of people have that art.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And that\u2019s almost part of the pressure in pastoring, but let\u2019s not pretend it\u2019s limited to that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> People know how to come to church and look better than they live.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So gunny sacking conflict, or pushing it to the side, or just volcanically\u2014which, mine would be more volcanically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I would get pushed to rage, and I\u2019m going to be verbally aggressive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014get it off my chest\u2014simultaneously: \u201cYou ought to listen and perhaps agree with me.\u201d [Laughter] My conflict resolution style was: \u201cI\u2019m right. Listen, and you\u2019ll discover that. Agree with me, and we\u2019ll resolve conflict.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cThen it can all be over!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> For some reason\u2014I know people listening can\u2019t understand what I\u2019m talking about, because <em>no couple<\/em> has ever done this\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014but I couldn\u2019t understand; I used to say to her, \u201cYou know, people will come and counsel with me. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> It\u2019s true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThey <em>want <\/em>my advice!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u201cThey <em>want<\/em> my advice, and you dismiss it. Isn\u2019t that a clue to you?\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cBecause I am <em>smart<\/em> and godly.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Keep going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u201cAnd people love me!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand wise and discerning; and they love me. I don\u2019t know what\u2019s wrong with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what have you learned about conflict?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Probably the most helpful thing\u2014I don\u2019t know; I\u2019m overstating, perhaps\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014the most used thing by other people\/that they say has helped them the most is the Fair Fight Rules.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> About ten years in, we figured it out; and we wrote Fair Fight Rules. Now, we were learning them all along.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I\u2019ll give you the first\/just the beginning of the principle: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re under pressure, and you have conflict, you want to be <em>heard<\/em>. What\u2019s understandably broken all of us is that you think communication requires you being heard and that conflict resolution begins with them hearing you. The difficulty is [mistakenly believing], once you\u2019ve been heard, you\u2019re emotionally done; and that\u2019s the beginning of real communication and conflict resolution. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe objective is not to be <em>heard<\/em>, but to <em>hear<\/em>. That has been said through Scripture; that has been said in leadership circles; that\u2019s been said at marriage conferences. This is easy to say; it\u2019s incredibly complex to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of James 1.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That we should be \u201cquick to listen.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Ann, do you know what we do? We take Scriptures like that, and we read them to our spouse. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> The whole point of it was for <em>you<\/em> to take that in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I would read it and say, \u201cMarsha, be quick to listen. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cSlow to speak and slow to anger.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u201cHoney, that\u2019s what\u2019s broke right here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody has that challenge on one side or the other, so we set up what we call rules: Fair Fights.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> You watch them boxing or whatever fighting style you prefer that\u2019s in the legal realm. They set a time; they\u2019ve got rules. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have pre-fight set-up, and then we have Fair Fight Rules. It\u2019s three phases:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s communication, and that\u2019s four rounds; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s compromise, and that\u2019s four rounds; \n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><ul><li>\n\t\t\t\t\tAnd if necessary, counseling; four rounds.\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t<\/ul><p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not overly complicated. But if you don\u2019t know how to resolve conflict, you have to be <em>mechanical<\/em> before you\u2019re emotional, or you\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> build the capacity to resolve it; and that\u2019s what\u2019s hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> You get emotional because: \u201cThis is intense! And this is a person who\u2019s supposed to love you, and you don\u2019t feel loved. You feel rejected, or dismissed, or unheard; or \u2018You don\u2019t understand,\u2019 \u2018You don\u2019t care!\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first segment of communication\u2014and it\u2019s because she\u2019s already said I\u2019m forceful, and I am; [Laughter] I talk too much, and I know it\u2014and she talks too little, and she knows it. Now, listen\u2014if you\u2019re a couple, and you\u2019re listening to this\u2014part of communication is being honest with who you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re really\/you\u2019re looking at your differences; and now, you\u2019re honoring them; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re just different than I am, and that\u2019s okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cGod\u2019s made you a certain way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cAnd we all have things that have happened in our past that create some wounds that, maybe, shut us down or make us loud. I think that\u2019s a good thing to know, and it\u2019s okay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> That\u2019s true; very good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So for us then, the rules, Ann, had to be\u2014under Communication, four rounds\u2014first round is: \u201cShe speaks; I listen.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you can say nothing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> She <em>always <\/em>speaks first, no matter who calls the Fair Fight. So if we want to fight on something, and we\u2019ve got conflict, somebody has to call a Fair Fight. They have to explain it in about sixty seconds\u2014what it is\u2014we set a date and a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay, give us an example; show us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Coming home late.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So what would you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u201cKevin, I want to have a fight.\u201d And you would be like, \u201cWhaaat?\u201d And I would say\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I like how you do him: \u201cWhaaat?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Pretty accurate!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> But honestly, almost always, whoever calls for the Fair Fight, the other one does not want to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> But because it\u2019s in the rules, we will; we obey the rules.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you say, \u201cI want to have a fair fight.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> The one who wants the fight has to declare what it is. I would say, \u201cYou\u2019re always coming home late. I have the dinner made, and we\u2019re waiting for you. I have children; they need to eat. We need to work this out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then we say, \u201cOkay.\u201d Instead of going into the fight right then, we decide <em>when <\/em>we want to fight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s really important. I cannot respond\u2014that\u2019s one of the rules\u2014I don\u2019t legitimize or dismiss her request.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I even try not to roll my eyes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good; because body language\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014tells a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And so we have to get out the calendar and decide: \u201cWhen are we going to fight?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, do you try to do it soon instead of waiting a week or waiting a day?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes; but if calendars are heavy, and with kids\u2019 activities, the kids have to be in bed for us at that season of time. We have to be emotionally capable to engage. Sometimes it\u2019s days down the road. It <em>has to <\/em>be concentrated time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things that would be good about this is you have time to pray.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, you could go one of two ways. I used to build my case in that time, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to say this, and he\u2019s going to say this; but I\u2019m going to <em>win<\/em>, because I\u2019m going to do this!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what I\u2019ve learned\u2014and I\u2019m sure you guys, too\u2014that gives you time, like: \u201cLord, check my heart. How should I say this? How should I bring it up? Is there anything I\u2019m missing?\u201d I like that it gives you a little time; that\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And it requires that of you. If you follow Christ, the Holy Spirit\u2019s going to do that, whether you\u2019re asking Him to or not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s just who He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, is it hard to not go into it right there? Because if Marsha\/I mean, Marsha used a word that we say at FamilyLife\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014\u201calways\u201d\/\u201cnever.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t use \u2018always.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So if Ann would say, \u201cYou\u2019re always late,\u201d I would be\/you know, \u201cWe can talk about this tomorrow, but I\u2019m not <em>always<\/em>\u2026\u201d; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So do you find yourself\u2014like I have to exercise self-control\u2014I <em>do <\/em>want to do it right now, and it\u2019s not going to go well if I do it right now. So you learn; you practice; you build the habit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s mechanical\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014versus emotional.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When we say, \u201cYou have to walk the mechanical process, not emotional.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s [emotional] what makes it nearly impossible to resolve conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> True.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Because when you express your emotions, you are rarely loving. Love is a <em>discipline<\/em>; it\u2019s not an emotion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> To value someone is a discipline; it\u2019s a <em>choice<\/em> you make. I have surrendered that we are one; and therefore, I care about this; because she cares about this. Therefore, she gets to call the fight. We set the time; she starts. Even if I call the fight, she starts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait, wait, wait. Why does <em>she<\/em> start?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> She always starts, because I\u2019m too forceful. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, so it\u2019s a choice in <em>your<\/em> marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I truly am\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014in our marriage. We don\u2019t think it\u2019s true for everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what we\u2019ve discovered: I cannot start without me <em>solving<\/em> it while I start; and I have got to learn to shut up, and she\u2019s got to learn to speak up. We\u2019re not going to build resolved conflict, authentic love, true companionship, and intimacy if we don\u2019t learn to communicate. Solving conflict is at the heart of communication. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I really like that you\u2019re even\/like it\u2019s a good conversation of who would start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking about that for us. I\u2019m sure people are listening, thinking, \u201cHmm; who would start in our relationship?\u201d I think you would start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad you think that, [Laughter] because I was thinking the same thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Dave, congratulations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Woo!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There we go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; so now, when you come to the actual fight, walk us through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Like he said, I would go first, no matter what.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t understand how you do that. If you have an issue, Kevin\u2014you\u2019ve already stated what it\u2019s about\u2014how would Marsha\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014start it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014start it, if she doesn\u2019t really know everything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Nine times out of ten, if you have a conflict in your relationship, you both know it; and you both have a different perspective. So when I call for a fight, and I say, \u201cI want to talk about finances; I want to talk about your spending.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, maybe you would know! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> I do exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> She immediately has an opinion. I want to talk about our parenting of Julisa, our daughter, our second child; and I have to say something about that. I say, \u201cI think we\u2019re over-disciplining her on this,\u201d or \u201cI think we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> addressing this,\u201d or \u201cI think we\u2019re over-investing in this,\u201d or \u201cThis is frustrating me; it seems like you\u2019re dismissing me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019ve given her enough that she knows.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Got it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I\u2019ve given a statement\u2014I <em>can\u2019t<\/em> go into it\u2014there\u2019s a difference between giving context and trying to win. I have to give context; we already know this. This is not: \u201cOh, we don\u2019t know we have conflict!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes; we <em>know<\/em> we have conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so even though you brought it up, she\u2019s still going to start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s how we\u2019ve done it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> And then after the first person gives their perspective, the other person\u2014instead of just automatically rebutting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014has to tell you back what they said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> My job is to listen. Our rule is I have not listened until she says I have. We have literally had fights, where it took <em>an hour<\/em> for us to do round one\u2014for her to speak and me to listen\u2014until she said, \u201cYou have heard me, head and heart. You have said what I said, and you\u2019ve said it with the right heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you restate back\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and you say, \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m hearing,\u201d\u2014and you go, \u201cNo, no, no, no; that\u2019s not what I\u2019m saying,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That\u2019s it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014until you get to: \u201cYes, you\u2019ve heard me; and you understand me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, you can go to the next round.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That process, however long it takes in the early stages of learning how to communicate, <em>always<\/em> shaves some of the rough edges off from a guy like me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014from anyone; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Whoever has this dynamic in them, the Holy Spirit will soften your edges.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Because we can\u2019t go on. Now, it\u2019s at that moment that you just want to be able to say, \u201cWell, there you go! You can\u2019t\u2026\u201d; and I want to just <em>run<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When you <em>quit<\/em> on communication, and you let conflict reign in your relationship, you\u2019re going to be alone; but you chose it. This is <em>hard<\/em> work. And we\u2019ve been doing this for a lot of years; so we don\u2019t have to do it with the mechanics that we\u2019re talking about right now,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014but we did for some years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So then, it\u2019s my turn once she says, \u201cI\u2019ve heard you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, she sometimes has to write her thoughts out to bring to me. I don\u2019t have to write mine out! [Laughter] I have them in my head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u201cLet\u2019s go! I\u2019m ready.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it\u2019s a good idea sometimes probably\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s very helpful!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to write it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So then, I get to share my perspective. She has to respond until I say she\u2019s understood me, head and heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when you have walked through those four, if you will, \u201crounds,\u201d you have accomplished communication. Everybody wants to solve a problem before they understand the problem. It\u2019s often broke, because you want to compromise before you communicate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy job is not to say, \u201cAlright, here\u2019s what I think the problem is; and here\u2019s what we\u2019ll do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Would you like to do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> <em>Every single time<\/em>. [Laughter] In fact, sometimes I <em>start<\/em> with, \u201cHere\u2019s what we should do, and here\u2019s why\u2026\u201d [Laughter] I <em>start<\/em> with the solution;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014so this discipline of communication <em>before<\/em> you find a solution.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Phase Two is four rounds of compromise. She has to give a solution. Then I make sure that I understand, and I give a solution. Then we negotiate until we find one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> And it does kind of help you understand the other person, too,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> \u2014as you\u2019re doing it, because [it\u2019s] something you wouldn\u2019t have thought of. I\u2019m not Kevin, and he\u2019s not Marsha; you go, \u201cOh, well, that\u2019s how he thinks!\u201d And now you understand how he thinks; so that the next time you have a conflict, you have that piece of: \u201cOh, he usually thinks this way; so maybe the conflict isn\u2019t what <em>I<\/em> think it is.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> You kind of mix the two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And the <em>beauty<\/em> is you\u2019re really getting to <em>know<\/em> each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right; exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly what you\u2019re saying, Marsha: you\u2019re <em>understanding<\/em> one another so much better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Ann, you asked her, at the beginning, to give an example of a fight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Let\u2019s play this out for people. Remember the \u201cYou\u2019re always home late\u201d? Let\u2019s take them to our compromise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> After we went through the rounds of communication\u2014and then we went to compromise\u2014he, of course, made his points of the fact that sometimes he has to go; he\u2019s a pastor!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> He has appointments, or something\/an emergency crops up; he can\u2019t help that. But there are other times when he just needs to finish something; you know? He wants to do it; wants to get it done. So we decided that we would set a specific time for dinner and that he promised he would be home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I agreed with her; I said: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI agree with you. You make a meal\u2014we\u2019re trying to build family\u2014we\u2019re in a season of building family. We said we value family <em>above <\/em>the work I do. I\u2019m valuing my work above our family, because we have a very small slot in which to engage in family togetherness. It\u2019s between 5:30 and 7:00, and I\u2019m blowing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will get up earlier. I will get these sections of things done for an hour or two at work, alone in the office; so that by the time I make it to the end of the day, I have margin. I\u2019ll be home at 5:30, and you can count on me. Now, if I\u2019m not, it\u2019s because there\u2019s an emergency; I\u2019ll call.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> But I\u2019m going to move it from the exception to the rule\u2014and vice versa, which means, as a rule, I was late\u2014I made that an exception. That honors her; that requires change for me; that puts our family in the place of value that we both said it had. And it literally changed the way I do my calendar and life. It changed the way I think!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> And I felt like, when he was late, there was a good reason.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> So it didn\u2019t create the same conflict or exasperation that it would have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When you solve conflict, you also solve future conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> When you actually resolve conflict\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014you set up a marriage where you have less and less conflict over time, because you literally build the mutual honoring, mutual understanding, and mutual grace. We have all sorts of grace, because we know the other person is committed to one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and I <em>love<\/em> the concept you developed of \u201cmechanical before emotional.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marsha:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because we often get in a fight, and we\/I\u2019ve done this, like, \u201c<em>Forget <\/em>the mechanical, we need to just\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because emotions take over; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s like, \u201cNo, no, no!\u201d You can\u2019t forget that; that is critical. It\u2019s like\u2014obviously, as a guy who played football and was around the NFL forever\u2014it\u2019s out of bounds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And when you step out of bounds, the play is over. There are rules\u2014mechanical\u2014and they help you get to compromise; they help you get to resolution. As you said so well, that helps you in the <em>future<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I\u2019m thinking of a couple right now that has not been able to fight well. You have just given them <em>tools<\/em> to help them fight well. If you forget, listen to this again. Better yet, get the book, <em>The Second Happy; <\/em>read through the chapters together and say, \u201cLet\u2019s implement this in our marriage. I think it will take us to a whole other place.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tConflict is every day. It\u2019s part of every relationship, every church, every team, every business, every family; and we don\u2019t get <em>any <\/em>training on how to do it well. Today\u2019s been a <em>training<\/em> session on how to do it well. Thank you; this has been <em>awesome<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you take a minute and look back on your life, I\u2019m guessing very few of us had any actual training in conflict and conflict resolution. What you saw in your home, growing up, may have been a destructive pattern; but it\u2019s all you knew. Or maybe you saw nothing; maybe your mom and dad never modeled for you what healthy conflict resolution looks like. I\u2019m guessing most of us have never had any kind of actual, formal training on resolving conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways that we host all around the country, we spend time walking couples through the biblical principles about conflict resolution that can help us get to a place where we actually resolve conflict, where we can be at peace with one another, where we can honor and respect one another. I mention that because, right now, there\u2019s a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners. If you\u2019d like to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, you can save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have three or four dozen of these events happening in cities all around the country this spring. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com; click the link to find information about when a getaway is being hosted in a city near where you live; block out that weekend; and then register today so you can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. This offer is good this week and next week only, so you need to act on this quickly. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to find out more about the getaway. Find out when it\u2019s coming to a city near where you live. You can register online. If you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY; we can answer your questions over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, make plans to come to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, not just to learn about conflict resolution, but about healthy marital intimacy, about God\u2019s purpose and design for marriage, about the roles for husbands and the roles for wives. All of it is covered at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. Again, you can register online right now at FamilyLifeToday.com and receive 50 percent off the regular registration fee.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile you\u2019re on our website, check out the book that Kevin and Marsha Myers have written called <em>The Second Happy: Seven Practices to Make Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon<\/em>, a great book for couples to go through together. If you\u2019re in a small group with other couples, this would be a great small group study to go through as well. Again, check out <em>The Second Happy <\/em>on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order from us online, or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more about how to address the hard-to-talk-about subjects in marriage, the elephants in the room. How do we wisely bring up important subjects that could be difficult to talk about? Dave and Ann Wilson will talk with Kevin and Marsha Myers about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. 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