{"id":307364,"date":"2022-01-10T08:02:07","date_gmt":"2022-01-10T13:02:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/making-your-marriage-better-than-your-honeymoon\/"},"modified":"2022-01-10T08:02:07","modified_gmt":"2022-01-10T13:02:07","slug":"making-your-marriage-better-than-your-honeymoon","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/making-your-marriage-better-than-your-honeymoon\/","title":{"rendered":"Making Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Remember newlywed-land? (What&#8217;s changed?) Authors Kevin &amp; Marcia Myers help get back to where you started&#8211;and recreate the spark.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tLearn more about the Weekend to Remember<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at shop.familylife.com.<br \/>\n \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app!<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Remember newlywed-land? (What&#8217;s changed?) Authors Kevin &amp; Marcia Myers help get back to where you started&#8211;and recreate the spark.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-10.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:50","filesize":"23.65M","filesize_raw":"24798762","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2849],"tags":[2877],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9754],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307364","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-drifting-apart","tag-marriage","cwp_profile-kevin-and-marcia-myers","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307364\/making-your-marriage-better-than-your-honeymoon","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307364\/making-your-marriage-better-than-your-honeymoon","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vOtynuyJxp\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/making-your-marriage-better-than-your-honeymoon\/\">Making Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/making-your-marriage-better-than-your-honeymoon\/embed\/#?secret=vOtynuyJxp\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Making Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vOtynuyJxp\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Remember newlywed-land? (What's changed?) Authors Kevin &amp; Marcia Myers help get back to where you started--and recreate the spark.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2022-01-10.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Kevin: <\/strong>I never understood why my parents divorced. They were \u201cChristians,\u201d and how could you not make it work if you know Jesus? I\u2019m sitting at home\u2014we\u2019re pastoring; we\u2019re two years in\u2014I got to choose my wife. I said, \u201cNow I know, because I <em>think<\/em> I could be without her.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nSo you\u2019ve probably done hundreds, if not thousands of weddings, you\u2019ve officiated.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve done thousands. It feels like thousands sometimes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And every single time I feel like, when you come home, you say the <em>same<\/em> thing. Do you know what I\u2019m going to say?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I say, \u201cI\u2019d love to say this at the wedding, but I\u2019d never do another wedding if I said what I\u2019m really thinking.\u201d It\u2019s like this: you\u2019re looking at this couple\u2014and they\u2019re so in love, and they\u2019re so excited\u2014and you <em>want<\/em> to say, \u201cThere could come a day, where you scream at your husband and say, \u2018The biggest mistake of my life was marrying you,\u2019 like <em>my<\/em> wife said six months after our wedding day.\u201d [Laughter] I want to say something like that; you know, reality.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014like: \u201cHey, what you feel right now is going to drift,\u201d or \u201cIt will go away at times.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But never at a wedding would you say that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, no.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You say: \u201cIt\u2019s going to be awesome,\u201d \u201cIt\u2019s going to be wonderful\u201d; but we all know the reality is: it\u2019s going to really\/they\u2019re going to struggle.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and it\u2019s hard.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got a couple in the studio today that wrote a <em>book<\/em> about that struggle; right? I mean, it\u2019s about\u2014\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And by the way, he\u2019s a pastor as well. Kevin and his wife, Marcia Myers, from Atlanta, Georgia\/well, suburbs of Atlanta; right?\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes; right. Exactly.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been married 40 years?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> We are hitting 39.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, 39.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Thirty-nine years.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So we\u2019re right on the cusp of four decades.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Four kids\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Four.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And four grandkids.\n\n<strong>Marcia and Kevin:<\/strong> <em>Yes!<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We\u2019re really glad to have you here.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> We\u2019re honored; thank you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve written a book called <em>The Second Happy: Seven Practices to Make Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon<\/em>. As I read through it\u2014I mean, you really get into what we just talked about how\u2014and as a pastor I\u2019m sure you know this\u2014thousands and thousands of weddings and marriages start well. Do you think they all hit\u2014and it may not be a big struggle\u2014but some kind of struggle?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> We almost overstated it by saying: \u201cIf you\u2019re in the one percent, who somehow has escaped the after-the-honeymoon experience of this fading and wondering if this was not one of the biggest mistakes of your life,\u201d\u2014if you\u2019re in the one percent we literally wrote in the book\u2014\u201cthen just give this book to somebody else.\u201d But for the\n\n99 percent of us\u2014who somewhere deep in the dark night of our soul, are very aware that we probably made a <em>huge<\/em> mistake three months in, six months in, even two years in\u2014and that\u2019s the norm. I think it helps people to hear that, because they don\u2019t believe it\u2014because they\u2019re in love, and it\u2019s awesome\u2014but eventually, it hits everybody.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What about you guys? Did that happen to <em>you<\/em>?\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, I would say definitely. Just, almost right away, we kind of butt heads. I\u2019m a little stubborn, and he\u2019s very forceful. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Wow! I don\u2019t know, if in the book or in <em>all<\/em> the interviews we\u2019ve been doing the last couple of months, you used the word \u201cforceful\u201d; but we\u2019re getting more crisp. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, Marcia is coming out. I\u2019m liking this. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, I just feel comfortable.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Thanks Ann.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, seriously; what do you mean \u201cforceful\u201d and \u201cstubborn\u201d?\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Well forceful, he knows what he wants; he knows what\u2019s right in his own mind, and you\u2019re not going to change that. He\u2019s a leader, most definitely; and he can outtalk you. Or at least, he can outtalk me. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> And me, my defense is stubbornness; no matter what you say\/no matter how much <em>sense<\/em> you make, I\u2019m still going to dig my heels in.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you shut down?\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay; so you don\u2019t fight back, but you\u2019ll shut down; like, \u201cI\u2019m not going there.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Right; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what happened? Was there a crisis point, or just the way it just sort of drifted, or what?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s how I discovered she was stubborn. I married this incredibly delightful, godly, awesome, beautiful woman\u2014highly talented, gifted\u2014and then I got married and discovered that she\u2019s nicer to everybody than she is me. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> So he says.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Now, years later, I can own some of this. [Laughter] One of the crises\u2014so we\u2019re in ministry,\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014which means we have to be hospitable. We\u2019re at a church\u2014I\/being more the extrovert; her\/being more the introvert\u2014we would literally be at the church; and I\u2019m meeting people; and I say, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t you come on over?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And when I say, \u201cCome on over,\u201d I don\u2019t mean <em>later<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> You mean now.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I mean: \u201cWhy don\u2019t you follow us to the house?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No! And you have little kids?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> No, not at that point.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you didn\u2019t even have kids.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> So it\u2019s\u2014no.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>right<\/em> at the beginning.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> This is\u2014yes; I demonstrated a great art of serving, and love, and kindness as a pastor toward my wife. It was <em>awesome<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes; meanwhile, in my head, it\u2019s like: \u201cNo, don\u2019t do this. We don\u2019t have any food,\u201d [Laughter] \u201cOur house\/I remember laying things on the floor, and they\u2019re still sitting there,\u201d\u2014like \u201cNo,\u201d\u2014but it didn\u2019t matter.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with you? We\u2019re supposed to be hospitable.\u201d So I would use Scripture and big biblical thoughts against her.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, hospitality.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh; so in other words, he\u2019s manipulating you. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Wow, Ann! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good way of putting it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is why it\u2019s good to have a couple interview; isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you know why she knows this so well?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes, Dave; I have a feeling.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m just saying, \u201cI\u2019ve <em>been<\/em> there\u201d; right? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019ve lived your life\u201d; exactly.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We had a similar conflict with that.\n\nBut the question is: \u201cDid it get deep?\u201d I mean, that\u2019s a fight maybe. We got to a point in our marriage, where it was: \u201cWe don\u2019t want to be together.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We were resentful of one another.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Oh, definitely.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes, tell the\u2014I think\u2014\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> When we were at the grocery store?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014grocery store. Yes; we think that triggered it.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> And what\u2019s weird is it\u2019s like a culmination, because we don\u2019t remember exactly <em>what<\/em> we were fighting about. We were like getting groceries. It was\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What year? I mean, how many years married?\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Probably, two years in.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> We just started fighting in the grocery store.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cHey, that\u2019s my pastor over there with his wife.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, we made a scene. We made a scene in the freezer section.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> And we weren\u2019t too far from our house, so he just <em>left<\/em>. I finished getting the groceries and getting them home.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t walk home?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I let her drive.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Actually, no; <em>he<\/em> walked home.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I just walked out of the store, walked home. Literally, I sat at the door at home, and I said, \u201cI never understood why my parents divorced. They were \u2018Christians,\u2019 and how could you not make it work if you know Jesus?\u201d I\u2019m sitting at home. We\u2019re pastoring\u2014we\u2019re two years in; I got to choose my wife\u2014I said, \u201cNow I know; because I <em>think<\/em> I could be without her. I think I could be divorced.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you say that to her?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I said that to <em>me<\/em>; I don\u2019t think I said it to you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you <em>felt<\/em> it.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I do think I treated you that way. We were on a rough road from then forward.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think so many listeners are hearing this, thinking, \u201cYes, we have been there.\u201d I think some are thinking, \u201cWe don\u2019t know how to get out.\u201d I like that we\u2019re going to talk about that today and how you guys got out of that. <em>We\u2019ve<\/em> talked about it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, this is the very\/very thing we talk about at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We\u2019ve been speaking for that conference for over 30 years. There\u2019s this drift\u2014\u201cYou\u2019re either headed toward oneness,\u201d is what we say\u2014or you drift toward isolation. I tell you, when you go there, and you start hearing us talk about that, you\u2019re like, \u201cWe\u2019re living that.\u201d But by the end of the weekend, we\u2019re like, \u201cWe can help you get out. We can show you the path to oneness.\u201d\n\nSo here\u2019s the thing. If you\u2019re listening right now, you can sign up for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. It will probably be in your city; and if you sign up now at FamilyLifeToday.com, you get half off. That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> deal.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good deal.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It starts Friday night. It ends on Sunday, right around noon. I\u2019m telling you: \u201cGod literally saves marriages. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; sign up right now, and watch God take you on a path to oneness.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And keep listening, because Kevin and Marcia are going to <em>help<\/em> us learn how we can get out of that rut.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Marcia, did you feel the same thing Kevin was feeling?\u2014like \u201cI\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes; he\u2019s\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014forceful? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> \u2014forceful, which creates highs and lows in his personality. I\u2019m more steady; so my thought was, \u201cOh, this isn\u2019t good.\u201d It was probably half the intensity of his; but for me, definitely, the final thought was: \u201cI don\u2019t want to get a divorce, but I don\u2019t know where to go next.\u201d Like that would be where we would end up if we keep going on this path.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think I was at the point\u2014that same kind of thing\u2014where I was losing <em>hope<\/em> that it could be good again.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> That is <em>so defining<\/em>; because I realize: \u201cIf we divorce, I\u2019m out of ministry; I forfeit my calling. I don\u2019t know how to integrate who God said He is with all His promises and grace in our life, so we\u2019re just going to settle for misery.\u201d I think a <em>lot<\/em> of marriages settle for misery.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And they endure it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, they do.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And some of them, \u201cWell we have kids; we\u2019ll endure it for our kids.\u201d And by the other end, it\u2019s one of the reasons why I think there is this <em>huge<\/em> drop off when you become empty nester and the like. Your kids are the reason you stayed in to some degree.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And so many get divorced as soon as their kids leave, and that\u2019s <em>still<\/em> devastating, even for their adult kids.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Deeply. Or they\u2019ll wait \u2018til they\u2019re high school even. They lost the love a long time ago; they\u2019re now just mechanically in the motions, and it\u2019s a very disappointing life. So to lose hope\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we\u2019re not judging that; we get it. We <em>all<\/em> get that.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Oh, no; actually, we\u2019re <em>confessing<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re there, though, at two years. I mean, this is <em>early<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> What a gift; right? Everybody couldn\u2019t do that. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, you got there <em>quick<\/em>. Many people are like, \u201cWe\u2019re still on our honeymoon at two years\u201d; but you are like, \u201cOh boy, this\u2026\u201d So you\u2019ve got to talk; how did you get out?\n\nI know some of it maybe relates to the zones you talked about in your book, which is a <em>great<\/em> way to explain this; but is that what happened? You got the \u201cA,\u201d the \u201cB\u201d; you can talk about it. I don\u2019t know your zones\u2014I played zone defense\u2014but I don\u2019t know your zones; right? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> It\u2019s not too dissimilar, Dave; we didn\u2019t know this back in the day. We\u2019ll talk from today\u2019s experience of a development, but we think that you have to break the \u201cQuit Cycle\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the first chapter\u2014it\u2019s what we talk about.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> What we mean is: everything in life\u2014every endeavor, every relationship, every project, every job\u2014doesn\u2019t matter what it is\u2014every pursuit, everything you buy\u2014it goes through three z\u2014ones: \u201cA\u201d Zone, \u201cB\u201d Zone, \u201cC\u201d Zone. The \u201cA\u201d Zone is full of promise; that\u2019s the honeymoon phase. That\u2019s when everything is awesome\u2014that\u2019s the new car; that\u2019s the first day of school; that\u2019s the first day at the job; that\u2019s when you get married\u2014everything is beautiful; it\u2019s perfect.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what that is in Detroit?\u2014it\u2019s training camp.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> You know, actually, it is.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Everybody thinks: \u201cThe Lions: this is the year.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>Every<\/em> single team thinks that.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And you <em>have<\/em> to believe that, or you don\u2019t have the <em>grit<\/em> to engage.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> You have to have hope on the other side; you have to believe something\u2019s possible. So the \u201cA\u201d Zone is familiar to all of us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Then, of course, every \u201cA\u201d Zone gives way to the \u201cB\u201d Zone; and the \u201cB\u201d Zone is full of problems. This is not transforming; people don\u2019t have to take notes right now. [Laughter] It\u2019s not like, \u201cOh, I never knew that!\u201d We\u2019re just putting words to familiar experience that most people didn\u2019t expect to happen in their marriage. The \u201cB\u201d Zone is full of problems. You live in those problems long enough, and you start losing hope.\n\nWe pause right there, and we just put at the bottom: \u201cAnd you tend to want a \u2018Q\u2019 Zone; you want to quit.\u201d If we want to talk about that more here together, we can; but\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you guys were there a little bit. Take us back to the grocery store. You\u2019ve walked home; and Marcia, you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m going to drive home <em>without<\/em> him; because he\u2019s left.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Right; right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>So<\/em> many couples are there.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> People <em>quit<\/em> on little things before they quit on big things. So we might not have quit on marriage, but we quit on the things that would build a marriage. In that fight in the store, I quit honoring her. In the hospitality\u2014invite somebody over to the house\u2014I started with my perspective rather than hers. I couldn\u2019t hear her; I thought, \u201cWhat kind of pastor\u2019s wife is this? She can\u2019t invite people over.\u201d [Laughter] I didn\u2019t realize she was actually caring about people: we didn\u2019t have food; the house wasn\u2019t ready; we weren\u2019t doing a good job caring for people.\n\nIf you can get to the other side\u2014but people quit on these things\u2014so you end up in this cycle of: \u201cA\u201d Zone, \u201cB\u201d Zone, \u201cQ\u201d Zone. And then, people chase \u201cA\u201d Zones; so they have a life of short cut. You do that long enough\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014meaning they just want to get <em>back<\/em> to those good feelings?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> You chase \u201cA\u201d Zones\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann &amp; Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014so people in relationships, people in careers and educational pursuits\u2014they fill in the blank\u2014the problems are too much for them to <em>endure<\/em>; the hill climb is too demanding, so you \u201cQ\u201d Zone.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Right; and then\u2014\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And again, most of us \u201cQ\u201d Zone on small things.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> \u2014usually start all over again in another relationship, or another career, or another\/you know, whatever.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Something that makes them feel good again.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Right; and think, \u201cOh, this will be better; this is going to <em>work<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And often you do that while you\u2019re <em>still<\/em> in the \u201cB\u201d Zone of the first relationship.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Or I\u2019ve done this\u2014have you ever done this?\u2014you\u2019re in your car. You love it; it\u2019s awesome when you got it. And then you see another car go by; and you\u2019re like, \u201cThat\u2019s the car I <em>really<\/em> want.\u201d You do that in relationships; you do that with churches; you do that\u2014I mean\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, Dave, we did it. Because I\u2019m thinking: \u201cWe\u2019re in the \u2018B\u2019 Zone in a troubled marriage,\u201d\u2014and so what do I do?\u2014I pour my life into my kids. That <em>feels<\/em> great; they\u2019re young. I\u2019m going to pour\u2026\u201d\u2014but they\u2019re filling me up.\n\nYou\u2019re [Dave] pouring\/you go to the \u201cA\u201d Zone of your career, like, \u201cI\u2019m building this church; this is amazing. I\u2019m getting applauded and accolades from my congregation more than at home.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So I think you\u2019re right. We <em>escape<\/em> into other things that will fill us up.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And it doesn\u2019t occur to us, Ann, that the \u201cB\u201d Zone requires \u201cB\u201d Zone muscle. There is a <em>muscle<\/em> required to grind through something to get to a \u201cC\u201d Zone that\u2019s full of payoffs. Everybody <em>wants<\/em> the hope fulfilled; but to get there has a cost: an endurance\/a demand.\n\nFor us, we just had to figure out: \u201cIn marriage, what does it look like for us to exercise\n\n\u2018B\u2019 Zone muscle in the midst of problems and to care enough to get beyond quitting so that this marriage has hope and possibility?\u201d In other words, you talk about the vow\u2014how many marriages have you done?\u2014hundreds, maybe thousands. That vow was <em>easy<\/em> to say.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u201cB\u201d Zone muscle is making good on that vow.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and you know, when you\u2019re up there as the pastor at the wedding, and you\u2019re setting up the vows\u2014at least, I think this; I\u2019m looking out at the congregation or, you know, the wedding families and friends\u2014thinking many of them are going [snickering] at the vows;\u2014\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because they\u2019re like, \u201cYes, we said those. They have no idea what they\u2019re saying, and they have no idea how hard the \u2018B\u2019 Zone\u2019s going to be to keep them.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, Dave, remember we were at one wedding; and they decided to continue with the vows and add their own. So this guy\u2019s up there just\/oh, he\u2019s flowery with his speech. He\u2019s like, \u201cI vow that every day I walk in the house I will kiss you, and hug you, and notice you. I vow\u2026\" I mean, he was getting so specific; and I\u2019m like, \u201cStop! Stop!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I literally\u2014I wasn\u2019t doing that wedding; it was in our church though\/in our chapel\u2014and I literally had to hold myself from snickering out loud, which is\/how terrible is that?\u2014that would be the <em>worst<\/em> thing ever! But it was such a reality check, like, \u201cYou have <em>no idea<\/em> what you\u2019re saying right now, because it\u2019s going to be <em>so hard<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So talk a little bit about that \u201cB\u201d muscle. How do you <em>develop<\/em> that?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Let\u2019s tell the bagel story. Sometimes, you have a story that marks your marriage\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014and resets it. You need a picture. So this \u201cB\u201d Zone muscle for us\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019ve got the freezer in the grocery store, and now you have bagels?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re a food family.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> As soon as I say it, Dave, you\u2019re going to go, \u201cOh, yes; I get it.\u201d We all get it; everybody\u2019s going to get this.\n\nWe would work out together; and on the way to the work-out club, early in the morning, we would stop at the bagel shop.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s why you\u2019re working out. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Exactly; we had to have a <em>reason<\/em> to work out. We\u2019d split this little ham and egg kind of bagel thing and, then, this cinnamon bagel with this\u2014what was it?\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Honey almond schmear.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh!\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> \u2014on the side. Now, listen: that\u2019s way too much for one person and then work out, so we\u2019d have it cut in half. When we\u2019d order, we\u2019d just say, \u201cPlease cut that in half.\u201d Now, me being the husband\u2014love my wife; here to serve\/wash her feet\u2014biblical concept. When they call our name, \u201cMyers,\u201d I go up to the counter; because I\u2019m going to serve her; I\u2019m going to get it. The problem is, when I get to the counter, I have a dilemma, immediately; because I look down at the cinnamon sugar bagel with honey almond schmear. They cut it in half, and nobody can cut it in half properly. One is always bigger than the other\u2014it\u2019s got more schmear; it\u2019s got more cinnamon\u2014I immediately notice that one half is better than the other.\n\nI\u2019m in a dilemma between the counter and the table. I\u2019m going to place one on her plate; which half do I give her? It\u2019s driving me nuts; because I\u2019m immediately aware that I <em>want<\/em> the better half of the bagel, and my marriage vow is giving her the better half of the bagel. That became a defining illustration for us of what it meant for\u2014at least, me\u2014for me to love my wife. I have to give her the better half of the bagel; and when I don\u2019t, I\u2019m <em>quitting<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> word picture.\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> And it\u2019s that\u2019s small. It\u2019s <em>always<\/em> that small.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What\u2019s the larger half of the bagel for you, Marcia? Are there times that you\u2019ve thought, \u201cOh, I need to do this; and it\u2019s difficult, but I\u2019m choosing to build that muscle\u201d?\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, definitely. I can give one example of he had this pullover. It was like a half-zip\u2014and he loved that pullover\u2014wore it a lot, almost to the point that I wouldn\u2019t have minded it getting lost. [Laughter] He\u2014\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> Are we supposed to get this honest? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> I know I always tend to get a little too deep [Laughter]; but anyway, he did lose it; and he was so upset. We looked <em>everywhere<\/em> for this half-zip shirt. Like I said, for me, it was more like, \u201cWell, you know\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cNo big deal; time to be done.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, <em>but<\/em> I knew he loved it. He had gotten it as a gift from a conference that he had been at. What I did was: I went to the people who did the conference and asked them if they had anymore and secretly bought him a couple of more.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so nice of you.\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Yes, I know. I\u2019m not one to make a lot of efforts; but I thought that I would, and I knew that he loved it; and so that\u2019s what I did.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good; because it\u2019s a great example of\u2014you didn\u2019t necessarily <em>love<\/em> that he had been wearing this all of the time\u2014but you were choosing, as an act of your will, to do something that would serve and\u2014\n\n<strong>Marcia:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that [he] would really appreciate. Yes, that\u2019s good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, do this: talk to the couple that\u2019s in the \u201cB\u201d Zone, and they are seriously considering quitting\u2014like right now\u2014I mean, they\u2019re listening; and they\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, this is <em>deep<\/em>. I\u2019m really discouraged. I\u2019ve been there for weeks,\u201d or \u201c\u2026months,\u201d or maybe\n\u201c\u2026years. I\u2019m thinking about quitting. I can\u2019t even imagine a \u2018C\u2019 Zone, where we could be happy again\/the second happy.\u201d What would you say to them?\n\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong> I\u2019d say a couple of things. First of all, a friend of ours, John Maxwell, has said, \u201cEverything worthwhile is uphill.\u201d You\u2019ve just got to embrace the <em>weight<\/em> of that truth: \u201cYou want worthwhile things. You want a marriage that works.\u201d\n\nSecondly, you\u2019re not alone. Just by virtue of this conversation, Dave\u2014that you and Ann are having with us\u2014is to remind people: \u201cYou\u2019re not alone on this journey. Many have hit that place of wanting to quit and have moved on, so you\u2019re not alone.\u201d\n\nThird, because you\u2019re not alone, and others have won, borrow their hope. These principles and practices and what <em>you<\/em> are teaching people help people wake up to there are steps and process. You\u2019re not going to win in a week. But if you\u2019ll do the right things next week, you\u2019ll get a better second week. And you do that again, you\u2019ll get a better third week; and you wake up to falling back in love. You find a second happy that you <em>lost<\/em> after the honeymoon, and it\u2019s doable.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think, for <em>so many<\/em> people, the goal of a rich, mutually-satisfying, happy marriage\u2014it\u2019s what all of us long for\u2014the question is: \u201cDo we know how to get there?\u201d I think it\u2019s in the discouragement of not knowing how to get there that a lot of couples just give up hope.\n\nWhat Kevin and Marcia Myers have been talking about today with Dave and Ann Wilson is that there is a second happy that is available to all couples if they can point themselves in the right direction\/get the help they need. It\u2019s there for you. In fact, Kevin and Marcia have written a book called <em>The Second Happy: Seven Practices to Make Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order a copy from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAnd then let me also mention the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway for couples. For more than four decades, there have been hundreds of thousands of couples, who have come to these weekend getaways and found the help and the hope they\u2019re looking for in their marriage. Wherever you are in your marriage\u2014maybe you\u2019re in a good marriage, and you just want it to be better; or maybe you\u2019re in a hurting marriage, and you\u2019re looking for hope\u2014the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> will walk you through a process to help align your marriage with God\u2019s design and help point you in the right direction as a couple.\n\nRight now, we have a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. You can register for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. We\u2019ve got several dozen of these events happening this spring in cities all around the country. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; there\u2019s a link there with information about where and when these getaways are being hosted in a city near where you live. You can also register online this week and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Or if you have any questions we can answer for you, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAgain, register online at FamilyLifeToday.com; call with any questions: 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Plan to join us this spring at one of our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about how important it is for couples to know how to fight fair. I mean, conflict is going to happen in every marriage. What we have to learn how to do is how to manage conflict in a way that honors one another and gets us to some kind of healthy resolution. Dave and Ann Wilson will talk with Kevin and Marcia Myers about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2022 FamilyLife. 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