{"id":307290,"date":"2021-11-08T11:00:39","date_gmt":"2021-11-08T16:00:39","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/embracing-your-kids-hard-questions\/"},"modified":"2025-01-09T13:01:41","modified_gmt":"2025-01-09T18:01:41","slug":"embracing-your-kids-hard-questions","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-your-kids-hard-questions\/","title":{"rendered":"Embracing Your Kids&#8217; Hard Questions"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Not having all the answers can be intimidating to parents, but Rebecca McLaughlin encourages us that the closer our kids look into the truth, the brighter Jesus shines.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Not having all the answers can be intimidating to parents, but Rebecca McLaughlin encourages us that the closer our kids look into the truth, the brighter Jesus shines.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-11-08.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:33","filesize":"27.06M","filesize_raw":"28372311","date_recorded":"2021-11-08 11:00:39","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2834,2806,2855],"tags":[4798,2209],"podcast_series":[8487],"cwp_profile":[9742],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307290","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-praying-for-your-children","category-spiritual-development","category-teens","tag-kids","tag-parenting","podcast_series-10-questions-every-teen-should-ask","cwp_profile-rebecca-mclaughlin","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307290\/embracing-your-kids-hard-questions","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307290\/embracing-your-kids-hard-questions","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"PeRKB3sVBW\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-your-kids-hard-questions\/\">Embracing Your Kids&#8217; Hard Questions<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-your-kids-hard-questions\/embed\/#?secret=PeRKB3sVBW\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Embracing Your Kids&#8217; Hard Questions&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"PeRKB3sVBW\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Not having all the answers can be intimidating to parents, but Rebecca McLaughlin encourages us that the closer our kids look into the truth, the brighter Jesus shines.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p><strong>Show Notes and Resources<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">Download FamilyLife's new app!<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.<\/a><\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-11-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think one of the hardest things\u2014I want to know if you agree\u2014as a parent, is when your son or daughter starts the teen years\u2014usually it\u2019s around there\u2014and they start questioning, or pushing back, or maybe rejecting the faith of their parents.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I think that creates a lot of fear in parents because we\u2019re afraid of where they will go with their doubts\/with their thoughts. I think it\u2019s easy for some parents to avoid it. But I really believe the greatest thing we can do for our kids is to have discussion about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m so glad our kids were perfect, so they <em>never<\/em> questioned or doubted. [Laughter] No, they pushed back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, they asked a <em>lot<\/em> of questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and it was really <em>healthy<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember reading a book, early in my parenting years\u2014because I wasn\u2019t raised in a Christian home\u2014called <em>The Dangers of Growing Up in a Christian Home<\/em>. I thought, \u201cI better read this because, I didn\u2019t grow up in one, but I\u2019m trying to lead one now.\u201d The biggest lesson I took away from of it was: \u201cYour children\u2019s faith has to be <em>their<\/em> faith; not the parents. You <em>have<\/em> to let them push back; you have to let them question and doubt, and come alongside them on the journey.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s really true, Dave. But I also think we\u2019re in an era where the questions kids are asking are different from the ones our kids were asking as they were growing up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> All I know is we need help, as parents, coming alongside. We have help in the studio with us today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m not laughing. I\u2019m really\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014excited.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014excited because Rebecca McLaughlin has written a book for parents and for teenagers.<\/p>\n<p>First of all, let me say, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Rebecca.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Glad you\u2019re here. You wrote a book, how many years ago? \u2014called <em>Confronting<\/em> <em>Christianity<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes, I think that was 2018.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was really sort of written to <em>adults<\/em> to wrestle with, you said, 12 questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> The idea with my first book was to write\u2014not to Christians, saying, \u201cHey, this is how you can talk to your non-Christian friend,\u201d\u2014but actually <em>to<\/em> everybody\u2019s non-Christian friend. A Christian could buy the book, read it for themselves, hopefully be encouraged as they wrestle with their own questions, but also have something to give to a friend or family member, who is skeptical or confused about Christianity and have them talk about it afterwards.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And to even know and be able to answer some of these questions themselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Exactly, yes. The idea with the teen book was exactly the same\/to say: \u201cI want to write something that you could give to a non-Christian teenager or you could give to your kid, who\u2019s either a teen or even a preteen.\u201d My daughter who\u2019s just turned 11\u2014I\u2019ve pretty much wrote it with her in mind, as well\u2014this is a book they could read; hopefully, it would help them. They could also give to a non-Christian friend, or Christian parents or grandparents could give this book to their kids. It\u2019s very much aimed at the teenagers themselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I\u2019ll tell you\u2014even as I read it\u2014I read it, like, \u201cI could hand this to a non-believer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Right!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> There are a lot of books, you don\u2019t always feel that way. I felt like you were writing to a believer; but you were writing to a non-believer, like, \u201cI love you; I want you to be able to ask and answer these questions.\u201d Here\u2019s the title, by the way: <em>10 Questions Every Teen Should Ask (and Answer) about Christianity.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s why Ann and I didn\u2019t write it, because we don\u2019t have these credentials. [Laughter] Rebecca holds a PhD in Renaissance Literature from Cambridge\u2014alright; people that know Dave and Ann know Ball State University is not quite Cambridge [Laughter]\u2014and a degree in theology from Oak Hill College, and you\u2019re the cofounder of Vocable?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Vocable Communications; that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; what is that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> It\u2019s a communications firm that I started with a friend of mine, who\u2019s a professor at UNC Chapel Hill. He\u2019s a professor of communications there; he had been doing consulting sort of on the side of his professor job for a while. I wanted to start a company with some other professor friends, as well, to train people to be better communicators. I mostly coach pastors through that actually, not exclusively, but that\u2019s kind of my favorite thing to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll tell you\u2014I was telling Ann as we were reading the book\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cThis is so readable for an adult but, obviously, for a teenager.\u201d Obviously, you\u2019re tackling big questions that, like you say, a teen should ask and answer.<\/p>\n<p>Let me ask you this though: \u201cIs it good\/is it something scary for parents as their teenagers, as we said earlier, start to reject, or maybe push back, or start to ask questions? Is that a good thing?\u2014how do we respond?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s funny, as you guys were sharing your experience, I was thinking about my kids, who are 11, 9 and nearly 3. My 11-year-old, from the first, just accepted what we said about Jesus. If she ever had a question, it was always to know more rather than like, \u201cI\u2019m not sure about this.\u201d That\u2019s just been her personality\/her orientation toward the faith.<\/p>\n<p>Our, now, nine-year-old\u2014I remember when she was four\u2014I was reading, before Christmas, the story of Gabriel telling Mary she was going to have a baby. My four-year-old goes, \u201cYes, I don\u2019t think I believe that.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay, so what is it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014four-year-old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> I asked her some questions to figure out what it was she didn\u2019t believe. I was like, \u201cDo you believe that God made us?\u201d \u201cYes, yes; I believe that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWell, do you believe that Jesus came and died for you?\u201d \u201cYes, yes; I believe it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Turns out it was the angel; that was what she didn\u2019t buy. She was like, \u201cI don\u2019t buy angels. I mean, I don\u2019t believe in fairies; why would I believe in angels?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cOkay, this is definitely a different feel to my first born.\u201d But I actually like it, because she\u2019s not just taking what I say on trust. She\u2019s actually asking her questions and engaging enough to <em>be<\/em> skeptical.<\/p>\n<p>My two-year-old, who\u2019s just turning three\u2014I was reading a little book with him a few weeks ago, which is called <em>The God Contest<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s a great book. It starts with the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal. It talks about Team Yahweh and Team Baal; then it transitions to Jesus and the resurrection. At the end, it says, \u201cNow, you need to decide: \u2018Do you want to be on Jesus\u2019s team?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>My two-year-old looks at me and goes [whispering], \u201cTeam Baal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> That wasn\u2019t even an option!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> He\u2019s just the kind of kid who pushes every boundary he can find. He <em>knew<\/em> that was the thing not to say.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> I think, what you guys went through with your teenagers, I\u2019m already in the thick of\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014yes, with your <em>two-year-old<\/em>. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> \u2014with my two-year-old. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That kind of answer puts a fear in parents\u2019 hearts, like, \u201cOh, no!\u201d But it doesn\u2019t for <em>you<\/em>; because honestly, you have answers, which is good. I think it\u2019s important for us, as parents, not to have all the answers, but to be able to dialogue with our kids.<\/p>\n<p>Tell me about <em>your<\/em> faith; like when did your faith become really important to you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, where\u2019d you get that accent? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca: <\/strong>Well, I come from the UK, as you may imagine, from my dulcet tones. I grew up in a sort of mixed Christian family I would say. My mum\u2019s family were Catholic, and my dad\u2019s were Church of England. I grew up going to churches, which honestly, I probably wouldn\u2019t recommend to a friend today to go to.<\/p>\n<p>I was exposed to the Scriptures; I heard about Jesus. I don\u2019t remember a time I didn\u2019t believe. I remember, distinctly, when I was around about nine, and my family was going through a really hard time. My mum was hospitalized at the time; she was very sick. I had a clarity at that point that Jesus was the <em>only<\/em> certain thing in my life; anything else could just be taken away.<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s still <em>true<\/em>; but I think it\u2019s moments in our lives like that, when other things feel unsure, that we actually properly recognize the stronghold that Jesus is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were nine years old\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014at that point.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did you find your calling to write on apologetics\/to write on the defense of Christianity?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> From childhood onwards, I was in very academic\/very secular environments, even if they\u2014I went to a school that was called St. Paul\u2019s Girls\u2019 School; it was dedicated to the Apostle Paul\u2014but <em>really<\/em> extremely hostile to like actual Christianity. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> I grew up around a bunch of people, who were very smart, and not impressed with Christianity at all. From early on, I was having conversations with friends, trying to persuade them to consider Jesus.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014even when you were younger?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I was like the keen bean in the youth group, I guess\u2014[Laughter]\u2014yes, and engaging with teachers, as well; because it was the sort of school that was a lot of open conversation. It was okay to push back on ideas; I spent a number of years doing that. Went to college as an undergrad and got a whole other set of very smart, mostly non-Christian friends: same story; second verse in grad school.<\/p>\n<p>After that, I went to seminary; because I just realized I loved studying Shakespeare, but I was never going to be passionate enough about it that I would make all the sacrifices you need to make to really succeed in academia, even if\u2014I didn\u2019t know if I even had the brain to do it\u2014but even theoretically.<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cWhat am I actually most passionate about?\u2014what would I sacrifice things for?\u201d I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s definitely telling people about Jesus and helping people, especially who have good reasons to not consider Christianity,\u201d\u2014whether it\u2019s because they think of Christianity as racist, or it\u2019s discriminating against people, or whether they see it as oppressing women, or they see it as incompatible with real academic engagement. Those are really good reasons\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> \u2014to discredit potential belief.<\/p>\n<p>As I\u2019ve gone on in life, the more I\u2019ve read\/the more I\u2019ve learned\u2014whether from Christians or from non-Christians, actually\u2014the more convinced I am that Jesus gives us the <em>best<\/em> answer to all those questions. There\u2019s nothing disappointing about Jesus. Actually, the more that you ask the questions\/the more that you actually look into things, the more brightly Jesus shines.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting, as you look at your ten questions, you think, \u201cOkay, these are ten questions every teen should ask and answer.\u201d I\u2019m expecting, \u201cWell, it\u2019s going to be about the Bible\/about heaven and hell,\u201d\u2014and those are in there\u2014\u201cIs Jesus really the only way?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But your <em>first<\/em> question I found so interesting in terms of like: \u201cWow, this is the first one.\u201d I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s in order that way; maybe it is. But it was <em>my<\/em> question of\u2014I didn\u2019t come to Christ until my junior [year] in college, and this was one of the reasons\u2014I didn\u2019t think there was any <em>life<\/em> in Christ. I just thought, \u201cI\u2019ve been around church\/I\u2019ve been around Christians enough to know\u201d\u2014I actually developed a talk later, as I preached and different things\u2014\u201cthat: \u201cHere\u2019s my perspective on Christianity: it\u2019s no fun; it\u2019s no freedom; and there\u2019s no fulfillment.\u201d That was what I <em>saw<\/em>; so I\u2019m like, \u201cWho would want to do that?!\u201d And that\u2019s your first question.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019d love to hear your perspective why you started with this question; and then let\u2019s talk about it, because I <em>loved<\/em> how you answered the question. I think every teen will go, \u201cThat is a great place to start.\u201d You call it: \u201cHow can I live my best life now?\u201d That\u2019s the question: \u201cHow can I live my best life now?\u201d Why did you start with that? And let\u2019s talk about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> A few years ago, the previous job that I did, one of the areas that we got interested in was modern psychology. As I started to read on the discoveries of modern psychology, and all of these different things, there was this eerie thing that would happen. I\u2019d read a paper, and then I\u2019d think, \u201cWait a minute; the Bible says that.\u201d I\u2019d read another one and be like, \u201cWait a minute; the Bible says that.\u201d Or I\u2019d read a book by a non-Christian social psychologist; and I\u2019d be like, \u201cWait a minute; I know all of those things already, because of the Bible,\u201d\u2014not to say that the research is invalid and hasn\u2019t sort of validated it in a different way.<\/p>\n<p>But for example, even one of your points there\u2014what was it?\u2014\u201cNo fun, no freedom, and no fulfillment,\u201d\u2014we have this idea, as modern Western people, that: \u201cIf only I have enough freedom, I\u2019ll be happy,\u201d \u201cGive me enough options, whether it\u2019s chocolates in the chocolate box or potential spouses, just give me enough options; and I\u2019ll optimize and I\u2019ll find the exact right one.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When actually, study after study, has shown that unlimited freedom is <em>really<\/em> bad for us; like we have a terrible crisis of decision-making if we have too many options. What\u2019s actually good for us is to commit to something, which is not because the Bible doesn\u2019t give us freedom\u2014it gives us all sorts of freedom; it give us the most profound freedom in Christ\u2014but it gives us freedom within real important constraints and boundaries. It\u2019s that kind of balance is where we humans thrive, it turns out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I remember reading John 10:10: \u201cI came that you might have life and have it to the full [NIV].\u201d I remember putting down the Bible and thinking, \u201cJesus said that?\u201d Then it made me start to think: \u201cWhat is <em>full<\/em>? What is <em>fullness<\/em>? What would that look like for me?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I feel like we\u2019ve lived that out. It feels like the opposite would happen, when you surrender your life; you feel like, \u201cOh, no; now my life is in the hands\u2026I will be in bondage.\u201d But the actual opposite happens; you are <em>free<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s something great to that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> One of the verses that I keep coming back to, both in my life and also in my writing, is when Jesus says, \u201cAnyone who wants to save his life will lose it. And whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. Anyone who wants to come after Me must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me [Matthew 16:24-25].\u201d It\u2019s so countercultural\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> \u2014and against all of our immediate human instincts. Yet, even experientially, as I\u2019ve grown older, I\u2019ve more and more realized the truth in that\u2014of course, for the long time of eternity\u2014but also, for the realities of here and now. I think what I\u2019ve tried to be careful about in that first chapter is not to, in any way, preach a prosperity gospel\u2014you know: \u201cCome to Jesus; and you will be healthy, and wealthy, and happy,\u201d\u2014and all the things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cno problems; no struggle.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> That\u2019s absolutely not what Jesus promises us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> He actually says life\u2019s going to be pretty hard.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Indeed; and yet, the teachings that He gives us really do promote human flourishing.<\/p>\n<p>One of the fascinating areas of research for that is even just regular going to church. I think many in our society today have come to think of religion in general, and Christianity in particular, as being sort of psychologically <em>bad<\/em> for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca<\/strong>: It turns out that the <em>opposite<\/em> is true. Whether or not you believe in Christianity, there are atheist social psychologists, who will say, \u201cYes; actually, there\u2019s a lot of data to support the idea that regular religious participation is good for you.\u201d It\u2019s <em>fascinating<\/em> how we seem to be designed, as beings, who <em>need<\/em> that specific kind of engagement\/that community within the idea that we\u2019re actually connecting with something so far beyond ourselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I found that interesting, too, with the study that was done for 75 years with professors at Harvard. You said that, when you were talking about how love is the most important thing, they found that good relationships with family and friends were what kept people happier and healthier rather than fame, wealth, and success.<\/p>\n<p>Yet, when you talk to kids that are teenagers, and you ask them: \u201cWhat do you think will bring you the greatest contentment in your life?\u201d and they will probably say either fame, wealth, or success.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is saying, \u201cNo, that\u2019s not what brings it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes; and I think one of the things that\u2019s interesting there is that there is an idolatry of romantic love that I think we see in our broader culture and, honestly, also in the church\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> \u2014to where a kid might say, \u201cYou know what? If I just grow up and get married, everything\u2019s going to be great.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s some truth in that in that, having a stable marriage is correlated with multiple mental and physical health benefits\u2014like there are lots of good things about being in a good marriage\u2014but actually, what we most need is close connection with a number of people. It\u2019s not just all about finding that one person, who will fulfill all of my relational, and social, and sexual, and emotion needs.<\/p>\n<p>Actually, that\u2019s far too much pressure to put on one\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca<\/strong>: \u2014human being. But as Christians, we are invited into this family and given this mission, together, to where actually things like friendships suddenly become beautiful, and missional, and important, and not just kind of nice to have if you don\u2019t have anything better.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, the things that I thought, before I became a follower of Christ, is: \u201cThere\u2019s no fun; there\u2019s no freedom; there\u2019s no fulfillment,\u201d I <em>now<\/em> have found the opposite <em>is<\/em> true: \u201cYou want <em>fun<\/em>? You want <em>real<\/em> joy that\u2019s not just a temporary high? It\u2019s in: \u2018The joy of the Lord is my strength\u2019 [Nehemiah 8:10].\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s like I would have <em>never<\/em> understood that before\u2014freedom\u2014you know, you think, \u201cfreedom\u201d\u2014like you said earlier\u2014\u201cfreedom\u2019s being able to do what I want.\u201d It\u2019s like: \u201cNo, no, no; that\u2019s not freedom at all. But freedom in Christ: you don\u2019t <em>know<\/em> how free it is to be able to love one woman for your entire life; to be able to have self-control. It sounds like you are <em>not<\/em> free; you are absolutely free.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then fulfillment is like: \u201cOh, my goodness; the greatest depth of my life is found in relationship with Christ.\u201d That\u2019s what you kept saying in Chapter 1; I thought, \u201cI didn\u2019t expect this book to start there.\u201d Yet, if I\u2019m a non-believer, or I\u2019m a new believer, or I\u2019m a teenager, saying, \u201cI need to ask this question: \u2018Is the best life to live in Christ?\u2019\u201d\u2014yes, that is a question that has to be answered before you can really take the next step; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never forget being at a staff training with Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, decades ago, at a training with three or four thousand staff. They had different speakers coming up. We were in our first or second year, married, and just out of college. They introduce a guy to speak to thousands of staff\u2014some of us young\u2014I was going to say, \u201call of us.\u201d He\u2019s\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014probably in his 80s.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave<\/strong>: \u201480\/85 years old. His name\u2019s Sidlow Baxter. I didn\u2019t know who he was\u2014but he\u2019s an unbelievable author and thinker\u2014wrote a book called <em>Explore the Book<\/em>, which is a commentary on the whole Bible. Long story short, I\u2019m like\u2014I literally turned to Ann, like, \u201cWe\u2019re going to listen to an 80-year-old?\u201d\u2014you know, look at my judgement.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m a musician\u2014and so I appreciate this\u2014he walks up and starts <em>jamming<\/em> on the piano; I mean, <em>jamming<\/em>. I\u2019m like, \u201cWow! This guy\u2019s got spunk.\u201d I\u2019ll never forget\u2014I don\u2019t know what he talked about\u2014he told this story; he said, \u201cIf you\u2019re down, or you\u2019re discouraged, or your Christian walk is just <em>flat<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s just empty; there\u2019s just no fire and passion anymore in your walk\u2014if you\u2019ve ever been there\/if you\u2019re there, let me tell you what you do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m like: \u201cGet in the Bible,\u201d \u201cGo to church,\u201d \u201cSing a worship song.\u201d You know what he said? He said, \u201cGet off your couch, put on your coat, and go out and serve somebody.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Right; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cJust go give your life away,\u201d\u2014what you said earlier\u2014\u201cYou find life as you lose your life.\u201d He said, \u201cAs you serve generously others, fire will come back to your soul.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s not about: \u201cI\u2019ve got to go find myself,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to\u2026\u201d\u2014he goes: \u201cAll those things are good: get in the Word\u2026but just give your life away in service to others for the Lord. There will be a fire and a passion that comes back to your soul.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember that, too, Dave. But I also remember crying, thinking\u2014when you\u2019re 21, you\u2019re wondering, \u201cWhat will my life be? What do I want?\u201d\u2014I remember looking at him thinking, \u201cI want that!\u201d He had this passion\u2014he\u2019s in his 80s\u2014and he was <em>powerful<\/em> and passionate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think he <em>ran<\/em> onto the stage and <em>ran<\/em> off the stage. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> He had this love for Jesus that radiated and compelled him. It made me think, \u201cI\u2019ve seen a lot of people at that age that are despondent, and weary,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014cynical.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014depressed, and cynical. I thought, \u201cIf that\u2019s what Jesus does, I want to follow Him my entire life and give my life away.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I love that you started this book on that note; because you\u2019re saying, \u201cYou may not believe this, but these are the scientific facts and data that\u2019s been researched that you actually are better with following Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Yes; and I think, even if we lay all the scientific studies aside, and we look at the kinds of stories we want to hear\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014the ones that we <em>love<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> \u2014we\u2019re drawn to stories, whether it\u2019s a <em>real<\/em> adventure and there is <em>rea<\/em>l mission, and there is <em>real<\/em> sort of danger and sacrifice\u2014and that\u2019s because that\u2019s really what we\u2019re designed for; we\u2019re given that.<\/p>\n<p>If we don\u2019t know Jesus, or if we know Jesus but we sort of aren\u2019t\u2019 actually listening to what He\u2019s saying\u2014then we think: \u201cWell, what\u2019s the point of my life? What do I have to contribute? Who am I?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s not our job to figure out! We\u2019ve been told who we are and what our job is, and we need to get on with it.<\/p>\n<p>I think one of the things that I\u2019m increasingly passionate about, even as we think about church, is like: \u201cWhat are we doing on a Sunday morning? Are we going in there just to hear a sermon, and sing some songs, and sort of sit back? In which case\u2014we\u2019ve all had to do it through COVID\u2014in which case, you can sit on your couch at home, and listen to the sermon, and sing the songs\u2014like, \u2018Why are you there?\u201d\u2014it for those reasons; but actually, it\u2019s for doing those things together and: \u201cWhat can I contribute to the people around me?\u201d \u201cHow can I serve?\u201d \u201cWho can I welcome?\u201d \u201cWho can I care for?\u2014who\u2019s new, or distressed, or struggling for whatever reason?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When we realize that we\u2019re not there to just spectate; but we\u2019re there to actually <em>be<\/em> the body of Christ in that place, it completely changes how we think about church; it changes even how we think about closeness and relationships. It\u2019s that mission together that brings us into real closeness I think.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve always said, \u201cChurch should be\u201d\u2014and I know this may not be an analogy that you would connect with, but\u2014\u201cit\u2019s a football game.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> Right. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, American football; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s where you\u2019re <em>totally<\/em> wrong.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But think about this: church is the huddle. After you leave church, it\u2019s the game. What I mean by that is church is where we come together; and we talk; and we study; and we sing; and we get excited. Then what happens, when we go out, is what God calls us to do: He calls us to live our best life now, which is to know Him and then go on the adventure of making Him known to our neighbors.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Parents, here\u2019s something that\u2019s really important: \u201cOur kids are <em>watching<\/em> if we are doing that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rebecca: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> They see that fire in us\/that zeal. They see when we\u2019re loving others\u2014complementing them, serving them, looking out for them\u2014they\u2019re watching that. If it\u2019s not real, they detect it. I hope that, as we sit in our churches, we will become \u201cdoers of the Word.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think all of us, as parents, understand that we live in a culture that wants to influence our children\/wants to shape their thinking. In our homes and in our churches, as Dave and Ann Wilson were just saying, we need to be standing firm on what God\u2019s Word teaches and making sure we are helping our children understand what the Bible says\/be able to think, biblically, about the important issues of our day.<\/p>\n<p>The book that Rebecca McLaughlin has been talking about today\u2014her book:<\/p>\n<p><em>10 Questions Every Teen Should Ask<\/em>\u2014is such a helpful resource. It helps all of us think more clearly about how the Bible speaks to the issues that are being presented in our culture today. We think this is such an important book for parents; we\u2019d like to make it available to you, as our gift, when you support the ministry of FamilyLife with a donation of any amount. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you call 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d and make a donation to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson will continue their conversation with Rebecca McLaughlin, talking about some of the pressing issues of our day; specifically, the exclusivity of Christianity. How, in a pluralistic culture, do we defend the idea that Jesus is the only way of salvation? We\u2019ll hear that conversation tomorrow. I hope you can join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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