{"id":307267,"date":"2021-10-21T07:00:38","date_gmt":"2021-10-21T11:00:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/gods-heart-for-the-sexually-broken\/"},"modified":"2021-10-21T07:00:38","modified_gmt":"2021-10-21T11:00:38","slug":"gods-heart-for-the-sexually-broken","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gods-heart-for-the-sexually-broken\/","title":{"rendered":"God&#8217;s Heart For the Sexually Broken"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Our world is full of sexually broken people. Juli Slattery and Ron Deal share a balanced message to encourage help and healing.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130.<br \/>\n \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Our world is full of sexually broken people. Juli Slattery and Ron Deal share a balanced message to encourage help and healing.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-10-21.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:16","filesize":"24.97M","filesize_raw":"26184591","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2088],"tags":[4066,2877,2991],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307267","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-romance-and-sex","tag-intimacy","tag-marriage","tag-sex","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307267\/gods-heart-for-the-sexually-broken","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307267\/gods-heart-for-the-sexually-broken","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"j3a5NIyKtM\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gods-heart-for-the-sexually-broken\/\">God&#8217;s Heart For the Sexually Broken<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gods-heart-for-the-sexually-broken\/embed\/#?secret=j3a5NIyKtM\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;God&#8217;s Heart For the Sexually Broken&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"j3a5NIyKtM\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Our world is full of sexually broken people. Juli Slattery and Ron Deal share a balanced message to encourage help and healing.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-10-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So one of the first times that we got to know each other, and we were sitting down for a long discussion, we shared openly about how we had failed in our purity. You had a history, and I had a history. And then you made a comment: \u201cBut you know, I\u2019m going to marry a virgin.\u201d I remember driving home, being so filled with shame and regret, because I thought, \u2018I will never be able to marry someone like Dave Wilson, who\u2019s a godly man.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson; and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore we were dating, we had shared how we came to know Jesus. We shared our vision for our lives; I was only 18, and you were 21. We were young; but man, I knew I wanted to follow Jesus. But we had also shared openly about how we had failed in our purity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014not with each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014not with each other\u2014but yes, with other people. We were just sharing our history. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then you said to me, \u201cBut you know, I just\/I\u2019m going to marry a virgin.\u201d I was so quick to be on the defense; because I was like, \u201cYou hypocrite! You just shared all this stuff that you\u2019ve done!\u201d And mind you, I had just shared all of <em>mine<\/em>; but suddenly, I would not be good enough for you, even though Jesus had cleansed me from my sin; but you <em>couldn\u2019t<\/em>. I was <em>so mad <\/em>at you! Do you remember this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t remember much about that conversation, because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I do!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because I\u2019m just an idiot. [Laughter] But I, now, can hear it and feel your shame, like, \u201cI blew it; and therefore, I\u2019m <em>never<\/em> going to be clean again\u201d; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that\u2019s some of the problem with some of the teaching that\u2019s been in the church\u2014and I think I\u2019ve even done it in years past\u2014about sexuality and God\u2019s heart for sex. We need to have a discussion about this, and we\u2019ve said enough about us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, we need to hear from Ron Deal and Dr. Juli Slattery, who are in the studio with us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014again!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014to continue our conversation. Boy, you guys know as much as anybody: \u201cThis is <em>important stuff!<\/em>\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It isn\u2019t just sex; it\u2019s so much bigger than that! It\u2019s really a spiritual walk with God, and sex is a <em>big<\/em> part of that; it\u2019s not separate! And I\u2019m preaching to the choir here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! So Ron and Juli, welcome back, again, with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, Juli, you spend your days in your ministry\u2014you\u2019ve written a book called <em>Rethinking Sexuality<\/em>\u2014we could let you just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014handle this whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and Ron too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and [directed toward Juli] Authentic Intimacy; just the title of your podcast, or is it a podcast?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> It\u2019s a ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> And the podcast is <em>Java with Juli. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And Ron\u2019s over here, Mr. Blended Family FamilyLife Director\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014author.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All of us have a heart for understanding this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJuli, let\u2019s start with you. When you hear us even talk about that conversation, early in our relationship, what hits you about that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Oh, it just hurts my heart. I think one thing I\u2019ve learned, over the last decade of ministering on sexual issues, is that every sexual issue is also a spiritual issue. When we talk about sex\u2014and we talk about our wounds; and the messaging that kind of goes wrong, even from the church\u2014<a id=\"_Hlk84451317\">when we think about sex [wrongly], we think about God [wrongly].<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven what you were reflecting, Ann, is: \u201cAm I pure? Am I clean? Am I worthy? If this godly man can\u2019t embrace me, does God embrace me?\u201d These conversations are essential. We see today, really, thousands and thousands of young adults deconstructing from the Christian faith primarily because of sexual pain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes! Yes, really.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait, wait, wait. You say \u201cprimarily.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Why do you say that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Well, because I talk to them; and I hear their stories; and I read their books; and listen to their podcasts. It\u2019s a sexual issue, like: \u201cI followed the Purity Culture; I married a pastor, who cheated on me, and it broke my heart,\u201d or \u201cI followed the Purity Culture message: \u2018Save Sex for Marriage,\u2019 and sex is horrible. It\u2019s been painful our whole marriage,\u201d or \u201cI never got married; God never brought that husband.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we have to handle these conversations with so much care, because we\u2019re not just talking about sex; we\u2019re talking about God\u2019s heart for people\u2014and what it means to be loved by Him, and called by Him, and what redemption looks like\u2014Scripture is really clear about that. God\u2019s story of sex is that He created sexuality to be a powerful earthly experience to teach us about the nature of how He loves us. And so, when I see people get healing and redemption, sexually, their connection to God becomes so much more personal and intimate. We want to see God reclaim this in people\u2019s lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; well, Ron, you\u2019re sitting over there; I know you have thoughts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, we\u2019ve talked about this previously\u2014but give us just a quick: \u201cWhat\u2019s the Purity Culture?\u201d\u2014because we want to understand that. And then let\u2019s dive into some Scripture; because some of that was based on some truth that might have been, maybe, misunderstood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; before I recap that, just an additional thought: \u201cIf you\u2019re the God of the universe, and You\u2019re about to create, and You\u2019re going to make these humans\u2014and <em>You are <\/em>an intimate communion of love\u2014three, somehow one\u2014full unity, full cooperation and companionship, and self-giving to one another\u2014and You want to make them in Your image, what do You do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, you create in them an ability to be one; and for that oneness to create new life. You give them the ability to do and replicate who You are so their bodily experience of sexuality teaches them about knowing and being known in a way that you can\u2019t just communicate with words and accomplish. You give them something physical that they can actually experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Ron, as I hear you say that\u2014and Juli, what you\u2019ve painted\u2014is this <em>beautiful <\/em>picture\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014of the intention and love of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And so, if you\u2019re the enemy of God, wouldn\u2019t you want to <em>totally<\/em> annihilate\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that beautiful vision? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And he has.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> I haven\u2019t met a person, who\u2019s not sexually broken at some level, who hasn\u2019t gotten some wrong teaching, and thinking, and experience of this that has skewed their perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Would you guys all say that of your kids as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Oh, sure!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes, for sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely, and no matter how much we try to protect them,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014which brings us to the Purity Culture;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014because that\u2019s what we were trying to do\u2014is protect our kids. We were trying to help them see some good things about God and His design for sex. It was really well-intended; and yet, we overdid it, I think. We just programmed it; we got controlling about it in some ways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014in our fear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014in our fear; you know? And it\u2019s almost like we created threats that we didn\u2019t need to create and gave promises that we couldn\u2019t keep: threats like: \u201cMan, if you do this, you\u2019re like this rose. Let\u2019s pass around this rose, and let\u2019s beat it up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> And then, \u201cYou\u2019re the one, who\u2019s been used and abused; this is you,\u201d and \u201cBy the way, you don\u2019t want to be that rose.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was literally done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely; that\u2019s why I\u2019m using it as an example.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, some of our listeners are like, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d They literally passed a rose around and beat it up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It was prescribed in youth groups all over the country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you were a youth pastor, so you probably did it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The intent was good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> The intent was good; right? But the mechanism created a different message. We create threats, because we want to scare you into obedience, like that\u2019s going to work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then the other thing we did was create promises that we really couldn\u2019t keep: \u201cIf you do this, and you remain a virgin\u2014and boy, you don\u2019t even kiss until your wedding day\u2014then you\u2019re going to have a happy married sex life. You\u2019re going to have children; everything\u2019s just going to roll from that point forward.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, I think what we\u2019ve said here is: \u201cYou know, in moments where we really want to influence our kids around things that we really believe in are important, it\u2019s easy to kind of reduce it down into something where we create these threats and promises.\u201d I really understand how it happened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, as we know, much of the discussion and teaching on purity came from the New Testament\u2014I mean, from various places\u2014but there was a passage that I taught, as a pastor\/as a chaplain: I can remember sitting down with Detroit Lion players, who were single, and saying, \u201cHere\u2019s the goal.\u201d I went to 1 Corinthians 7. Let\u2019s read it, and then I\u2019d love to hear your comments.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul wrote in 1 Corinthians 7, verse 1\u2014it says, \u201cNow, for the matters you wrote about.\u201d So obviously, it was a hot topic then, too;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014this isn\u2019t new: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife and, likewise, the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent, and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlright; I know you\u2019ve read this, taught this, studied this many times. As you hear it now read, in this conversation, what comes to your mind?<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Well, I think first, we have to understand\u2014and you understand this, as a pastor\u2014that this was not written in chapters. It\u2019s a whole letter; and as a matter of fact, if we rewind into 1 Corinthians 6, Paul is talking about how: \u201cYou were bought with a price; therefore, honor God with your bodies.\u201d He\u2019s talking about sexuality; that everything you do with sexuality spiritually matters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Your body\u2019s a temple;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014it hosts the Holy Spirit; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Right; yes. And there\u2019s something significant about our sexuality. So we take that in context; and if you keep reading in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul then instructs singles about their sexuality. We have to understand that this instruction is within the context of a <em>whole<\/em> letter; and it\u2019s also responding to something specific that the Corinthians were asking about, that we don\u2019t really know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, one of the dangers here, just like with Purity Culture, is taking a piece of Scripture and building a whole theology out of one piece, without seeing it in the context of everything else that the Scripture teaches about sex, about marriage, about love. There are some beautiful pieces in this passage; but if you <em>only <\/em>read this passage, without the context, here\u2019s what you hear: \u201cSex is a really bad thing, and so God created marriage to control it. If you want to control your sexuality, you owe each other sex. You owe it to your spouse; it\u2019s your duty; and if you don\u2019t give it to them, then Satan\u2019s going to tempt them, and they will sin sexually.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> That is really the message that, again, if you just read it at face value, without putting it into context, you can see how people get there,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> \u2014which is <em>extremely<\/em> dangerous, both in the message to singles as well as the application of that to marriage; so we\u2019ve got a lot of unpacking to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, how do we, you know, understand this passage and others, of course,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, teach us the correct way of understanding it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; a healthy, godly view of it; because it\u2019s an <em>awesome, <\/em>beautiful gift from God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow do we get there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> So in verse 1, there\u2019s a question that the people in Corinth are asking. Apparently, someone\u2019s going around teaching: \u201cYou know what? This whole physical body thing is something we should just avoid. So even sex with your spouse, just don\u2019t even do that; because you\u2019re engaging the flesh, and you want to run away from the flesh; and you just want to be wrapped up in the spiritual things.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Sort of a gnostic view of the body.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right; exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> And he\u2019s addressing that, and he\u2019s saying: \u201cNo, this is a good thing; this is something created by God, and this is something that you share with one another.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m really curious about the language when he says, \u201cshould give to his wife\u201d\u2014the ESV says\u2014\u201cher conjugal rights and the wife give her husband conjugal rights.\u201d Throughout the entire Old Testament\u2014covenant of marriage\u2014you made a promise to give food, clothing, and conjugal rights. That was in their wedding vows; that\u2019s how they articulated what they were going to do for one another, and it was metaphorical. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Hebrew people\/the Jewish people would have been very familiar with this language. He\u2019s saying, \u201cYou made a vow; this is part of the relationship. This is something that is good and right, and God has created it to be such. It\u2019s a part of the sexual, intimate relationship of knowing each other and coming to know God through your sexuality. So yes!\u2014be responsible to one another\u2014engage one another in sex.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not out of <em>duty<\/em>, as in: \u201cOh, my gosh! I hate this! This is a horrible, awful thing; and you just have to do it, even if you don\u2019t want to,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s not that at all. It\u2019s to have a heart of love, and sacrifice, and giving to one another. This is a part of your commitment to one another, so there\u2019s a responsibility there; but it\u2019s not begrudgingly having to <em>do <\/em>sex. That\u2019s <em>not<\/em> what it\u2019s teaching at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> It\u2019s beautiful to paint that context\/the historical context. You know, one thing that has really helped me understand this passage, and so much else about sex, is really going back to that idea that, when a husband and a wife get married, they are echoing the covenant love of God. God\u2019s covenant love to us has all different elements to it. It has His faithfulness to us; it has this journey of intimate knowing\u2014of us knowing Him more\u2014and Him being intimately involved with us; sacrificing for us; and us sacrificing for Him, laying down our lives as He did for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it also has this aspect of passionate celebration. So when we worship together as the bride of Christ\u2014in church, or in personal gatherings, or even in our own devotional time\u2014there is a time to celebrate our covenant with the Lord, with singing, with dancing, with joy! And in essence, sex is that piece of the covenant; it\u2019s the bodily celebration, remembering the covenant love we have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTim Keller says it like this\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> \u2014he says, \u201cWhen you have sex as a married couple, it\u2019s like a covenant renewal ceremony. You\u2019re doing with the body what you\u2019ve promised to do with your whole life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, when you read 1 Corinthians 7 in that context, what it\u2019s really saying is, \u201cDon\u2019t neglect this covenant celebration!\u201d Even within our bodies\u2014the oxytocin, the dopamine, the endorphins that happen during sex\u2014are a beautiful way of recharging our intimacy, reminding us of the vows we made, even in our bodies. But that also means that we <em>minister<\/em> to one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it\u2019s <em>really<\/em> important that we say: \u201cWhat God is calling us to, in the larger picture of love,\u201d\u2014remember 1 Corinthians 13 is in the same letter as 1 Corinthians 7\u2014\u201cLove is patient, love is kind, love does not envy or boast\u2026it\u2019s long-suffering.\u201d All those things apply to how we remember a covenant together; how we learn to celebrate together, which is a long journey of communication, of grace, of mercy, that needs to be read into the context of how we apply something like 1 Corinthians 7.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I mean, this is a <em>beautiful<\/em> picture of God\u2019s design, God\u2019s intent, God\u2019s hope.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then you have two very imperfect people coming together\u2014maybe not even grown up in the church or maybe they did\u2014but they\u2019re still <em>damaged<\/em>. They come together, so damaged, so broken, so skewed in their view of sexuality\/their view of God. Help us!\u2014like help that listener, who is like: \u201cOkay, I was raped,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve been abused,\u201d \u201cMy husband is addicted to porn.\u201d Where do we even <em>start<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and it may not even be <em>that<\/em> extreme.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014extreme; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It can be anywhere along that continuum.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cOur marriage isn\u2019t very good; so our intimacy, physically, isn\u2019t good.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> You know, one thing I think we need to take note of is the mutuality Paul talks about in this passage, which was not at all\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014unheard of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes! For him to say, \u201cStart with the men:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> \u2014\u2018You have the duty to meet your wife\u2019s sexual needs.\u2019\u201d That doesn\u2019t always mean to give her sex. For most women, it means: \u201cStudy her, nurture her, make this a safe environment; help her discover her sexual response.\u201d And then it says about the wife\u2019s duty to the husband. This mutuality is so often missed in the way this is taught, and that\u2019s a great place to start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I just want to echo that. The same thing is true about Ephesians 5. We read that, and think, \u201cWow! What Paul\u2019s saying to women\u2014oh, man, that is tough\u2014I don\u2019t know; he is really harping on women in that passage.\u201d Actually, he\u2019s harping on <em>men<\/em>;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014because what he said to men was radical. <em>That<\/em> did not fit the cultural context.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did he say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Well, he told men to love their wives <em>as<\/em> Christ loved the church\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what, Ron?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014and gave Himself. Okay; wait a minute; let\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She just wanted to hear you say that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> She did; she did. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know what she was doing! [Laughter] I\u2019m like, \u201cShe knows <em>exactly<\/em> what it says.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I just want listeners to know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Juli used a word a minute ago: \u201cdemand.\u201d Can you imagine 1 Corinthians 13 being read with, \u201cOkay, you get to demand out of your spouse: breakfast in bed, peeled grapes; you know, sex <em>whenever<\/em> you want it; sex <em>how<\/em> you want it. You know, that they would serve your schedule rather than you ever having...\u201d Like can you imagine us reading 1 Corinthians 13 with that tone? But we read 1 Corinthians 7 with it: \u201cDemand your spouse to give you sex, because it\u2019s their duty to fulfill that obligation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNo! Read 1 Corinthians 7 as: \u201cOkay, me as a husband, who\u2019s trying to die for my wife the way Christ died for the church\u2014and by the way, I\u2019m part of the church; by the way, Christ died for me!\u2014I don\u2019t demand; I\u2019m the guy who gives; I\u2019m the guy who serves; I\u2019m the guy who woos\u2014that\u2019s what I\u2019m after! \u2018How do I lose myself in this relationship, so that I love and give to her?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, bring <em>that<\/em> attitude into: \u201cYes, I do have a responsibility to my wife sexually. What does that look like for us?\u201d\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t know; that\u2019s something she and I have to figure out as a part of our us-ness. But I\u2019m serving our us-ness by being responsible with my sexual being and what I bring to the equation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs soon as we turn it into\u2014\u201cWhat do I demand out of you?\u201d \u201cWhat rights do I have?\u201d\u2014we\u2019ve totally flipped the passage upside down and we\u2019ve lost the meaning.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We are not the first generation or the first civilization in human history to get God\u2019s design for sexuality wrong; and yet, our desire should <em>always<\/em> be to want God to be glorified in how we express both purity and appropriate biblical sexuality in marriage. That\u2019s what Ron Deal and Juli Slattery have been talking with us about this week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJuli has actually written a very helpful book on this subject called <em>Rethinking Sexuality: God\u2019s Design and Why It Matters. <\/em>It\u2019s a book that I think every married couple will benefit from reading together and talking about. We\u2019ve got copies of Juli\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can order it from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY to request a copy of Juli\u2019s book. Again, the title is <em>Rethinking Sexuality <\/em>by Dr. Juli Slattery. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJuli is going to be with us on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> cruise in February. If you\u2019re not already signed up for the cruise, let me encourage you to get more information. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and find out more about the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, as you\u2019ve listened to today\u2019s program, you may have thought of someone who you know might benefit from hearing <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>and this topic being addressed. Let them know that <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>is on this station; or point them to FamilyLifeToday.com, and find the link to the FamilyLifepodcasts so they can listen to Dave and Ann, and Juli, and Ron and this discussion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, this issue of purity is something that, here at FamilyLife, we have been encouraging moms and dads to be engaging with their children about from an early age. In fact, there\u2019s a resource we\u2019ve developed called <em>Passport2Purity<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> that many of you have used to help introduce your kids to issues related to sexuality, dating, peer pressure, the kinds of things they\u2019re going to face during adolescence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, who\u2019s the president of FamilyLife, is here with me. David, you just had the opportunity to go out on a <em>Passport2Purity<\/em> getaway with one of your kids; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. It was actually my third kid, which was crazy to me, that they\u2019re growing up that fast! But what I love about this resource is that it presents biblical principles in a way that sets up hard conversations like peer pressure, and pornography, and the reality of where babies come from in a way that gives a great connection between the parent and a kid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEach time we\u2019ve gone through it, I have cherished the depth of bonding that happens between me and my child, where, sure, my kid told me, \u201cDad, you know, this is a little weird\u201d; but at the same time, he left, just beaming of that time, going, \u201cDad, thanks for this time together. I\u2019m so glad I can come to <em>you <\/em>to ask questions that I have. I believe you when you say you\u2019re up for any question; and you want me to hear from you, as a parent, and not just from what my friends are saying, who may not know as much.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have an opportunity to shape our kids. This resource was <em>so<\/em> fun to do, yet again; and I got to see the value of it first-hand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; the thing parents have said to us, for years, is that <em>Passport2Purity<\/em> opens up the dialogue. It sets up the opportunity for parents to talk with young teens about what\u2019s ahead for them in this area. I\u2019d just encourage our listeners: if you have not taken a \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t10-,11-,12-, or 13-year-old child on a two-day getaway, where you can go through this content with them and help them get ready for the avalanche of pressure they\u2019re about to feel when it comes to all kinds of issues, <em>Passport2Purity <\/em>is a <em>great<\/em> resource.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s more information about it on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com; you can go there to order. Or if you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSpeaking of adolescence, one of the issues that kids are facing in adolescence these days is the issue of bullying, both live and in-person; also, cyber-bullying. Tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson talk with Jonathan McKee about what we can be doing, as parents, to help our kids know how to respond, either when they\u2019re being bullied or when they see a friend who\u2019s being bullied. I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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