{"id":307215,"date":"2021-08-30T07:00:06","date_gmt":"2021-08-30T11:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/enough-suffering\/"},"modified":"2021-08-30T07:00:06","modified_gmt":"2021-08-30T11:00:06","slug":"enough-suffering","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/enough-suffering\/","title":{"rendered":"Enough Suffering"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>There are times when our pain seems unbearable. Lysa TerKeurst talks honestly about how some of her deepest pain affected her life, and how the blood of Jesus not only covered it, but became her anthem to help others.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tWeekend to Remember is back. Register today to get 50% the registration https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130.<br \/>\n \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There are times when our pain seems unbearable. Lysa TerKeurst talks honestly about how some of her deepest pain affected her life, and how the blood of Jesus not only covered it, but became her anthem to help others.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-08-30.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:27","filesize":"26.96M","filesize_raw":"28274061","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2903,2873,2827],"tags":[2699,4213,2877],"podcast_series":[8470],"cwp_profile":[9732],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307215","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-infidelity","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-repentance","tag-forgiveness","tag-love","tag-marriage","podcast_series-forgiving-what-you-cant-forget","cwp_profile-lysa-terkeurst","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307215\/enough-suffering","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307215\/enough-suffering","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"37pn4CkLYq\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/enough-suffering\/\">Enough Suffering<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/enough-suffering\/embed\/#?secret=37pn4CkLYq\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Enough Suffering&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"37pn4CkLYq\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-08-30.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-08-30.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> <a id=\"_Hlk80219031\"><\/a>When my counselor said, \u201cToday\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> day to start working on forgiveness,\u201d I remember thinking, \u201cThat\u2019s not even possible. They haven\u2019t said that they were sorry; and really, honestly, I don\u2019t think that they\u2019ve suffered like they should suffer. Like they don\u2019t deserve my forgiveness because, if I forgive them, isn\u2019t that me saying, at this point, that what they did was okay when it very much was not okay?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got a quote I want to see if you can finish.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no; is this a pass or fail grade?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I think you\u2019ll easily finish this because we wrote about it in our book. I\u2019ve said it many times from the stage; it\u2019s a life-changing quote for me. The first time I heard it, you were sitting right beside me at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We were there, as an engaged couple, and went to this marriage conference\u2014which we didn\u2019t know anything about\u2014with FamilyLife, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. \u201cWe need to go to this before we get married.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you actually remember a <em>quote<\/em> from 41 years ago?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes; let me tell you. Because that quote and that weekend was life-changing. I\u2019ve just got to say this: the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is still happening; it\u2019s back on. You can sign up right now and go for half price\u2014half price!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s big.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a <em>big<\/em> deal, and it\u2019s going to change your life just like it changed our life. It\u2019s an amazing weekend that you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to miss, so sign up right now at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nWell, let me tell you, here\u2019s how the quote goes: \u201cWhen you forgive someone, you set a prisoner free\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201conly to realize the prisoner was <em>you<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is that right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Almost; it\u2019s close enough. That was Lewis Smedes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>When I read that quote, decades ago in a book on forgiveness, I realized I thought I was locking my dad up by not forgiving him\u2014for the divorce and walking out when I was a little boy\u2014and [with] that truth, a light bulb came on, like, \u201cOh my goodness! I\u2019m locking <em>me<\/em> up. I can\u2019t become the man God wants <em>me<\/em> to be, and I\u2019m\u2014you know, because I will not go\u2014you know, I\u2019m in a cage!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you\u2019re in bondage.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That literally started me on a journey, which was the <em>hardest<\/em> journey of my life; because I thought, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll forgive him this weekend,\u201d and it didn\u2019t go that way.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I remember you saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to forgive my dad this weekend,\u201d and then it took <em>years<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\nBehind every journey like that is a really hard story. I discovered a book that I think is the best book I\u2019ve read on forgiveness; and we\u2019ve got the author of that book, Lysa TerKeurst, with us today. Lysa, thank you for being here. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Thank you so much. It\u2019s an honor as always to be here, but such a treat to be here with you guys today.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re pretty excited\u2014especially, we were on vacation over the weekend, reading your book\u2014and Dave is handing me your book every\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to be honest.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014five seconds, like: \u201cRead this,\u201d \u201cRead this,\u201d \u201cRead this.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re supposed to be like on a mini-vacation; right? We\u2019re on the beach; we\u2019re laying there. She looks over and goes, \u201cWhat are you working for? You\u2019re reading a book that\u2026\"\n\nI\u2019m reading it, because we\u2019re going to interview you [Lysa]. I\u2019m like, \u201cHoney, I <em>cannot<\/em> stop reading this book.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Lysa\u2014I\u2019m not kidding\u2014thank you! This book is such a gift to the body of Christ\/to anybody, really. You opened up things I\u2019ve never even considered in the area of forgiveness.\n\nLet\u2019s let our listeners know it\u2019s called <em>Forgiving What You Can\u2019t Forget<\/em>, and your subtitle is amazing: <em>Discover How to Move On, Make Peace with Painful Memories, and Create a Life That\u2019s Beautiful Again<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Yes; I write about what I struggle with, so this book wasn\u2019t born out of some kind of <em>fake<\/em> notion that I\u2019m a forgiveness expert. That\u2019s not it at all. I was <em>struggling<\/em> with forgiveness <em>so much<\/em>, thinking that I honestly understood forgiveness and had a general concept of it, because I\u2019ve been a Christian for a long time. But I wrote this message because <em>I<\/em> needed this message most of all.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and you can tell by reading it. It is\u2014in some ways, I felt like I was reading your journal\u2014because you write so well. It\u2019s like I\u2019m living\/you know, as a reader, you\u2019re sort of there; you can <em>feel<\/em> the pain.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you\u2019re captured; you\u2019re in the story.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you take us on a journey, that\u2019s not just your journey\u2014it\u2019s really everybody\u2019s journey that needs to go on that, like Lewis Smedes says, to get free\u2014and it has to do with forgiveness. Tell us a little bit; because I\u2019m guessing, 10 years ago\/20 years ago, you weren\u2019t thinking, \u201cI can\u2019t wait to write this book.\u201d\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> No, no.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This was not the book you wanted to write, but you wrote it.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> No.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I also thought it was interesting, as we get into your story, that you were talking about how your life was divided into the BC and then the AD. What does that mean?\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> It\u2019s \u201cBefore Crisis\u201d and \u201cAfter Devastation.\u201d I think sometimes we walk through situations or issues in our life\u2014it could be hurt; it could be heartbreak; it could be disappointment, disillusionment\/there\u2019s such a scale\u2014but when we walk through something that\u2019s <em>so<\/em> hard, and maybe even so <em>harsh<\/em>, it\u2019s easy to define our life from <em>before<\/em> that happened, and then there\u2019s such a <em>sharp<\/em> line that divides before and after.\n\nUsually, that\u2019s how time is marked according to the birth of Christ. But in my life, there was also a real marking of when my life appeared, even to me, to be one way and then there came this <em>enormous<\/em> emotional crash, after just realizing that some dynamics in my family were not what I thought they were; and then forever marked that this is now \u201cAfter Devastation.\u201d\n\nBut when talking about a forgiveness message, I love that you said, \u201cI bet, ten years ago, this isn\u2019t a message you ever thought you wanted to write.\u201d I would say\n\n100 percent, because it\u2019s not a message I ever wanted to <em>live<\/em>. When I talk about forgiveness, I automatically know that, just uttering that word, people are going to attach that this word is connected to probably one of the most devastating or a series of very devastating, hurtful events.\n\nIt\u2019s easy to hear the word, \u201cforgiveness,\u201d and think, \u201cThat\u2019s nice. I know I should do it, but\u2026\u201d It\u2019s easy to cross our arms, kind of push back, and feel an enormous amount of resistance; and that\u2019s exactly where I was.\n\nI knew I needed to work on forgiveness; but when I started writing the message, I spent over 1,000 hours studying forgiveness in the Bible. My team showed up one day, and I had typed out\u2014they <em>thought<\/em> it was going to be a chapter\u2014but what I actually typed out were all the reasons why I absolutely should not be the one to write this book, and all the people that I really felt like I would not be able to forgive, and all the reasons why I was so very justified in not forgiving those people. It forced me to come, face to face, with the reality that I agree with biblical forgiveness as a principle; but deep down inside of me, I have so much resistance to living it out.\n\nThat brings me back to the fact that I studied forgiveness in the Bible for over\n\n1,000 hours. I didn\u2019t do that because I wanted to become a theological expert; I did that because I was looking for the loophole and the exception: \u201cSurely, there has to be some circumstances where forgiveness doesn\u2019t apply.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Take us back to that point of what happened that made you dig in the Word, of saying, \u201cGod, I need answers.\u201d\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> I experienced a very <em>dramatic<\/em> crisis in my most precious relationship, and I wrote all about that in <em>It\u2019s Not Supposed to Be This Way<\/em>. It\u2019s the very thing that threatened to tear my family apart\/very much was the worst betrayal of my entire life. I think I thought I was doing okay until I went to a counselor. I can\u2019t say enough about just combining therapy and theology as one pursues wholeness, healing, and health.\n\nI went to my counselor, and it was during a particularly devastating part of the journey that I was walking through. I walked in; I remember I had this thought, \u201cI don\u2019t remember when it was the last time that I actually washed my hair <em>or<\/em> brushed my hair.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> I was just in this desperate place of feeling so broken and so hopeless. I walked into my counselor\u2019s office. He looked at me and he said, \u201cLysa, do you want to heal?\u201d I said, \u201cOf course, I want to heal. I\u2019m doubting if it\u2019s possible; because I just wonder, \u2018Is it possible to be so broken that healing becomes impossible?\u2019 But I <em>do<\/em> want to heal.\u201d\n\nHe said, \u201cThen today\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> day to start working on forgiveness.\u201d I remember thinking: \u201cThat\u2019s not even possible. I\u2019m not even in communication with this person that\u2019s hurt me so badly. They haven\u2019t said that they were sorry, and I don\u2019t know if reconciliation is ever going to be possible,\u201d and \u201cReally, honestly, I don\u2019t think that they\u2019ve suffered like they should suffer. Like they don\u2019t deserve my forgiveness; because if I forgive them, isn\u2019t that me saying, at this point, that what they did was okay when it very much was not okay?\u2019 and \u201cIsn\u2019t that me saying that it was no big deal when it was a <em>huge<\/em> deal? What if that other person doesn\u2019t even think that they need to be forgiven, then how do you even get traction in a situation like that?\u201d\n\nMy counselor listened to my resistance message; and he didn\u2019t argue with me, and he didn\u2019t fight against me. He just listened; and then he said, \u201cOkay, well, Lysa, let\u2019s just start with your pain.\u201d He handed me a stack of 3x5 cards; and he said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you just write out one thing on each card how you\u2019ve been hurt? Just write this pain, and this hurt, and this wound; just get it out.\u201d\n\nI started writing one thing on each card\u2014the <em>facts<\/em> of how I\u2019d been hurt\u2014suddenly, it was as if the entire floor in front of us was covered with my 3x5 cards.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Lysa, as you continue that, do you think most of us could write down a ton, or hundreds, or maybe 20 things of why we\u2019ve been hurt in our lives?\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> I think that people would be surprised at how much pain is really locked inside of them. Because we generally categorize our pain as an incident; when, in reality, there\u2019s 10, 20\/maybe, a 100 facts of how we\u2019ve been hurt that feed into that incident. Unless we look at the pain, and deal with the pain, it\u2019s <em>impossible<\/em> to heal from the pain.\n\nA lot of us are trying to fix the incident that happened, but without dealing with the pain that is <em>feeding<\/em> all of the emotion that\u2019s driving the <em>intensity<\/em> of the hurt and the chaos. Without dealing with that\u2014my counselor has told me before\u2014\u201cWhen it\u2019s hysterical, it\u2019s historical; and what\u2019s not worked out will be acted out.\u201d How it was playing out with me is I would say: \u201cOh, no; I\u2019m not bitter,\u201d \u201cOh, no; like I\u2019ve dealt with the pain.\u201d\n\nBut then I would get triggered\/somebody would say something or something would happen\u2014and it was maybe a minor offense\u2014but I would have a completely out-of-proportion reaction to their very small offense, and my reaction didn\u2019t even have very much to do with <em>them<\/em>. It\u2019s that I have unhealed pain from my past, and I was pulling it into my very present situation. Anytime we act hysterical\u2014not hysterical like ha, ha funny\u2014but hysterical as in <em>too<\/em> much emotion for what\u2019s right in front of us: \u201cWhen it\u2019s hysterical, it\u2019s historical; it\u2019s undealt with.\u201d\n\nI used to think triggers were just <em>awful<\/em>, like the <em>worst<\/em> thing in the world; but now, I look at triggers differently. They are inconvenient; I wish I could time my triggers, but that\u2019s not how triggers work. Because triggers catch you off guard, I used to think, \u201cThis is so cruel. Why would God allow the triggers to happen like this? It\u2019s <em>so<\/em> awful.\u201d But then I realized it\u2019s actually God\u2019s mercy; because if the full impact of hurt would hit us at the exact moment when the devastation happens, it could kill us. So how good and gracious of God to let the pain leak into our life\u2014months even, sometimes, years\u2014so that we can almost bite off our healing, one little piece at a time.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So go back\u2014you\u2019re in your counselor\u2019s office\u2014can you share some of the writings that were on some of those cards?\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Some of the <em>deepest<\/em> wounding was: \u201cI thought I could trust you,\u201d \u201cI felt like I had it all together; and then choices were made, that I had no say so over, that made everything fall apart,\u201d \u201cThis is my <em>favorite<\/em> part of my life, and you took it away,\u201d\u2014a lot of deep pain there.\n\nI remember, when I stood back and looked at all those cards on the floor, I remember thinking, \u201cNo <em>wonder<\/em> I\u2019m so exhausted. Look at all I\u2019ve been carrying.\u201d I didn\u2019t even realize how much was really there until I wrote it out.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You even mentioned like you were <em>sick<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you think that had something to do with what was on the floor?\u2014\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014the effects of the stress, and the pain, and the betrayal.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Absolutely; because in your body, the neuro pathways that carry physical pain also carry emotional pain; the two are very connected. It\u2019s just more, in physical pain, there is a protocol that\u2019s set up that people know exactly what to do; people know how to support you. You get to a doctor; and the doctor, if it\u2019s intense enough, admits you to the hospital. If there\u2019s brokenness, then you put a cast on it; if there\u2019s bleeding, then you stitch it up; if there\u2019s\u2014you know what I\u2019m saying?\u2014there\u2019s like a whole protocol.\n\nBut if you\u2019re sitting on the side of the road\u2014and its emotional pain: there\u2019s no blood; there\u2019s no broken bone\u2014there\u2019s no place to go. Like if I was in this much physical pain, and they did surgery, they would put me to sleep; because they would have <em>mercy<\/em> on the intensity of the pain. But when you\u2019re in <em>intense<\/em> emotional pain, you feel like there\u2019s surgery being done to you, but without being put to sleep!\n\nThat almost seems just insane to me that we would have to <em>suffer<\/em> on that deep level of emotional pain without some kind of immediate relief. Obviously, people can go and get medication, and all of that, but there just wasn\u2019t that <em>instant<\/em> protocol. It\u2019s like there was this timer\u2014you have to figure it out\u2014and it\u2019s very complicated.\n\nI was there in my counselor\u2019s office, and he looked at all of those cards, and he said back to me one of the kindest, most meaningful statements that a human has ever spoken to me; and he said: \u201cLysa, I believe you,\u201d and \u201cI not only believe you, but what\u2019s happened to you was wrong,\u201d and \u201cIf no one in this world dares to say they\u2019re sorry, I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019ll say that to you today.\u201d\n\nI know that there\u2019s a listener right now, who is resonating with the intensity of emotional pain, feeling betrayed, feeling abandoned, feeling broken. Maybe it\u2019s because of choices you fed into, or maybe you had choices placed <em>on<\/em> you. Whatever the circumstances are\u2014maybe you\u2019re even feeling brokenhearted and not able to forgive yourself\u2014but whatever it is, I just want to say to you: \u201cI believe you. That pain is hard, and it is all consuming,\u201d and \u201cWe don\u2019t need to compare our pain with someone else\u2019s pain. We just acknowledge, in the context of our life, it is intense; and it\u2019s hard. What happened to you, that fed into all the situation that you are in and is causing you so much pain, what happened was wrong,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m so, so sorry. And if no one else in this world has ever <em>dared<\/em> to bear witness to your pain, I will.\u201d\n\nWhen my counselor did that for <em>me<\/em> on that day, it helped me put my guard down. This is the thought that popped into my head: \u201cI deserve to stop suffering because of what other people have done to me.\u201d Then it was <em>less<\/em> about having that epic moment, where the other person realizes how wrong they were, and they say they\u2019re sorry; because you don\u2019t have any control over what another person says, or does, or will or will not do. And if you wait for <em>them<\/em> to make choices to let your healing journey happen, then you are letting the person that hurt you the most hijack your ability to heal.\n\nI knew I had to <em>detach<\/em> my ability to heal from another person\u2019s choices. I put a stake in the ground and said, \u201cI deserve to stop suffering, because of what another person has done to me. This is <em>my<\/em> pain, and it\u2019s <em>my<\/em> choice to heal.\u201d Jim [the counselor] looked back at me, and he said, \u201cOkay, <em>now<\/em> it\u2019s time to just <em>verbalize<\/em> forgiveness and have that marked moment, where you know you\u2019ve been obedient to God.\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cThat\u2019s great; but what if my feelings are not cooperating with this?\u2014because my head says, \u2018Yes!\u2019 but the pain inside of my heart says, \u2018No!\u2019; and I don\u2019t want to <em>fake<\/em> it with God because God <em>sees<\/em>.\u201d\n\nJim said, \u201cLysa, you just have to remember that forgiveness is not something you conjure up in yourself; forgiveness is something that God has provided.\u201d I had this picture of, as God\u2019s forgiveness flows <em>to<\/em> me, I simply must cooperate with it and let it flow <em>through<\/em> me. So forgiveness isn\u2019t something that I have to figure out; I just have to cooperate with God\u2019s forgiveness.\n\nJim gave me a little script to say. I went, card by card by card; and the script I would say is: \u201cI forgive this person for <em>this<\/em> particular pain; and whatever my feelings will not yet allow for, the blood of Jesus will surely cover it.\u201d He handed me some red felt squares; and so each time I said that, I would lay a piece of red felt over that card. By the time I got to the <em>very<\/em> last card\u2014and the very last time I said, \u201cI forgive this person for this <em>specific<\/em> pain; and whatever my feelings will not yet allow for, the blood of Jesus will cover it,\u201d and I covered that last one with red felt\u2014I looked back; and it was no longer the <em>pain<\/em> that was staring at me.\n\nI realized, \u201cI\u2019ve been obedient to God, <em>and<\/em> I still have some stuff to work through and that\u2019s okay.\u201d Because forgiveness is <em>both<\/em> a decision, which I made that day, and it\u2019s a process of healing; and it can be <em>both<\/em>. We forgive in a moment for the fact of what happened; but learning to forgive for the <em>impact<\/em>, that\u2019s going to take a long time. God\u2019s command for us to forgive allows space for both.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s really <em>powerful<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Boy, oh boy, I remember reading that\u2014again, sitting on a beach in a glorious setting\u2014that very chapter where you talk about the cards\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You shared it with me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and I shared it with Ann\u2014and I just thought, \u201cI need to do that.\u201d I\u2019ve had the big moment in my life of forgiving my dad\u2014was a big one\u2014but even as you talk, and even as I read your book, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, I have, I bet you, 30-40 cards right now I could <em>easily<\/em> write.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think we <em>all<\/em> do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think we all could, so that\u2019s why I bring it up. I thought, \u201cWhat if a listener, or a thousand or tens of thousands of listeners, did that process today?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it would be <em>amazing<\/em>. It would be really interesting to share this whole concept with the family around the table. I was thinking it would be really cool to talk about that, and the necessity of it, but also the reality of forgiveness. It\u2019s not an easy thing, and it\u2019s not a one-time thing; it\u2019s a process.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and it starts <em>today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Forgiving someone who has hurt us can be really hard. It\u2019s also not an option for us, who are followers of Christ. We\u2019ve been forgiven much, and we are called to forgive one another. Dave and Ann Wilson have been talking today with Lysa TerKeurst, who\u2019s written a book called <em>Forgiving What You Can\u2019t Forget: Discover How to Move On, Make Peace with Painful Memories, and Create a Life That\u2019s Beautiful Again<\/em>.\n\nIf you are struggling with this issue of forgiveness\u2014if there\u2019s someone who has hurt you, and you think, \u201cI <em>can\u2019t<\/em> forgive them,\u201d\u2014let me encourage you to get a copy of Lysa\u2019s book. It\u2019s available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Order it from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website to order a copy of Lysa TerKeurst book, <em>Forgiving What You Can\u2019t Forget<\/em>, is FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAnd don\u2019t forget: this week and next week, we are encouraging you to join with thousands of other couples, from all across the country, who this fall are going to be joining <em>us<\/em> at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. We\u2019re so excited to have a full schedule of getaways planned for this fall. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to find out when a getaway is happening in a city near where you live. If you register today for an upcoming getaway, you will save 50 percent off the regular registration fee.\n\nIt\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> opportunity for you and your spouse to have a getaway as a couple; and honestly, I think all of us could use a couple of days to getaway and refresh a little bit. It\u2019s been quite a season; hasn\u2019t it? Find out more\u2014you can register online, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014but register now so you can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Again, details are online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call us to register at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more from Lysa TerKeurst about the process God took her through as she had to wrestle with forgiving someone who had hurt her profoundly\/very deeply. The conversation continues tomorrow. I hope you can join us.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\n1"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:27"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.96M"],"filesize_raw":["28274061"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307215.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307215.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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are times when our pain seems unbearable. Lysa TerKeurst talks honestly about how some of her deepest pain affected her life, and how the blood of Jesus not only covered it, but became her anthem to help others.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-08-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> <a id=\"_Hlk80219031\"><\/a>When my counselor said, \u201cToday\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> day to start working on forgiveness,\u201d I remember thinking, \u201cThat\u2019s not even possible. They haven\u2019t said that they were sorry; and really, honestly, I don\u2019t think that they\u2019ve suffered like they should suffer. Like they don\u2019t deserve my forgiveness because, if I forgive them, isn\u2019t that me saying, at this point, that what they did was okay when it very much was not okay?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got a quote I want to see if you can finish.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no; is this a pass or fail grade?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I think you\u2019ll easily finish this because we wrote about it in our book. I\u2019ve said it many times from the stage; it\u2019s a life-changing quote for me. The first time I heard it, you were sitting right beside me at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We were there, as an engaged couple, and went to this marriage conference\u2014which we didn\u2019t know anything about\u2014with FamilyLife, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. \u201cWe need to go to this before we get married.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you actually remember a <em>quote<\/em> from 41 years ago?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes; let me tell you. Because that quote and that weekend was life-changing. I\u2019ve just got to say this: the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is still happening; it\u2019s back on. You can sign up right now and go for half price\u2014half price!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s big.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a <em>big<\/em> deal, and it\u2019s going to change your life just like it changed our life. It\u2019s an amazing weekend that you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to miss, so sign up right now at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nWell, let me tell you, here\u2019s how the quote goes: \u201cWhen you forgive someone, you set a prisoner free\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201conly to realize the prisoner was <em>you<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is that right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Almost; it\u2019s close enough. That was Lewis Smedes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>When I read that quote, decades ago in a book on forgiveness, I realized I thought I was locking my dad up by not forgiving him\u2014for the divorce and walking out when I was a little boy\u2014and [with] that truth, a light bulb came on, like, \u201cOh my goodness! I\u2019m locking <em>me<\/em> up. I can\u2019t become the man God wants <em>me<\/em> to be, and I\u2019m\u2014you know, because I will not go\u2014you know, I\u2019m in a cage!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you\u2019re in bondage.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That literally started me on a journey, which was the <em>hardest<\/em> journey of my life; because I thought, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll forgive him this weekend,\u201d and it didn\u2019t go that way.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I remember you saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to forgive my dad this weekend,\u201d and then it took <em>years<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\nBehind every journey like that is a really hard story. I discovered a book that I think is the best book I\u2019ve read on forgiveness; and we\u2019ve got the author of that book, Lysa TerKeurst, with us today. Lysa, thank you for being here. Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Thank you so much. It\u2019s an honor as always to be here, but such a treat to be here with you guys today.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019re pretty excited\u2014especially, we were on vacation over the weekend, reading your book\u2014and Dave is handing me your book every\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to be honest.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014five seconds, like: \u201cRead this,\u201d \u201cRead this,\u201d \u201cRead this.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re supposed to be like on a mini-vacation; right? We\u2019re on the beach; we\u2019re laying there. She looks over and goes, \u201cWhat are you working for? You\u2019re reading a book that\u2026\"\n\nI\u2019m reading it, because we\u2019re going to interview you [Lysa]. I\u2019m like, \u201cHoney, I <em>cannot<\/em> stop reading this book.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Lysa\u2014I\u2019m not kidding\u2014thank you! This book is such a gift to the body of Christ\/to anybody, really. You opened up things I\u2019ve never even considered in the area of forgiveness.\n\nLet\u2019s let our listeners know it\u2019s called <em>Forgiving What You Can\u2019t Forget<\/em>, and your subtitle is amazing: <em>Discover How to Move On, Make Peace with Painful Memories, and Create a Life That\u2019s Beautiful Again<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Yes; I write about what I struggle with, so this book wasn\u2019t born out of some kind of <em>fake<\/em> notion that I\u2019m a forgiveness expert. That\u2019s not it at all. I was <em>struggling<\/em> with forgiveness <em>so much<\/em>, thinking that I honestly understood forgiveness and had a general concept of it, because I\u2019ve been a Christian for a long time. But I wrote this message because <em>I<\/em> needed this message most of all.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, and you can tell by reading it. It is\u2014in some ways, I felt like I was reading your journal\u2014because you write so well. It\u2019s like I\u2019m living\/you know, as a reader, you\u2019re sort of there; you can <em>feel<\/em> the pain.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, you\u2019re captured; you\u2019re in the story.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you take us on a journey, that\u2019s not just your journey\u2014it\u2019s really everybody\u2019s journey that needs to go on that, like Lewis Smedes says, to get free\u2014and it has to do with forgiveness. Tell us a little bit; because I\u2019m guessing, 10 years ago\/20 years ago, you weren\u2019t thinking, \u201cI can\u2019t wait to write this book.\u201d\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> No, no.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This was not the book you wanted to write, but you wrote it.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> No.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I also thought it was interesting, as we get into your story, that you were talking about how your life was divided into the BC and then the AD. What does that mean?\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> It\u2019s \u201cBefore Crisis\u201d and \u201cAfter Devastation.\u201d I think sometimes we walk through situations or issues in our life\u2014it could be hurt; it could be heartbreak; it could be disappointment, disillusionment\/there\u2019s such a scale\u2014but when we walk through something that\u2019s <em>so<\/em> hard, and maybe even so <em>harsh<\/em>, it\u2019s easy to define our life from <em>before<\/em> that happened, and then there\u2019s such a <em>sharp<\/em> line that divides before and after.\n\nUsually, that\u2019s how time is marked according to the birth of Christ. But in my life, there was also a real marking of when my life appeared, even to me, to be one way and then there came this <em>enormous<\/em> emotional crash, after just realizing that some dynamics in my family were not what I thought they were; and then forever marked that this is now \u201cAfter Devastation.\u201d\n\nBut when talking about a forgiveness message, I love that you said, \u201cI bet, ten years ago, this isn\u2019t a message you ever thought you wanted to write.\u201d I would say\n\n100 percent, because it\u2019s not a message I ever wanted to <em>live<\/em>. When I talk about forgiveness, I automatically know that, just uttering that word, people are going to attach that this word is connected to probably one of the most devastating or a series of very devastating, hurtful events.\n\nIt\u2019s easy to hear the word, \u201cforgiveness,\u201d and think, \u201cThat\u2019s nice. I know I should do it, but\u2026\u201d It\u2019s easy to cross our arms, kind of push back, and feel an enormous amount of resistance; and that\u2019s exactly where I was.\n\nI knew I needed to work on forgiveness; but when I started writing the message, I spent over 1,000 hours studying forgiveness in the Bible. My team showed up one day, and I had typed out\u2014they <em>thought<\/em> it was going to be a chapter\u2014but what I actually typed out were all the reasons why I absolutely should not be the one to write this book, and all the people that I really felt like I would not be able to forgive, and all the reasons why I was so very justified in not forgiving those people. It forced me to come, face to face, with the reality that I agree with biblical forgiveness as a principle; but deep down inside of me, I have so much resistance to living it out.\n\nThat brings me back to the fact that I studied forgiveness in the Bible for over\n\n1,000 hours. I didn\u2019t do that because I wanted to become a theological expert; I did that because I was looking for the loophole and the exception: \u201cSurely, there has to be some circumstances where forgiveness doesn\u2019t apply.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Take us back to that point of what happened that made you dig in the Word, of saying, \u201cGod, I need answers.\u201d\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> I experienced a very <em>dramatic<\/em> crisis in my most precious relationship, and I wrote all about that in <em>It\u2019s Not Supposed to Be This Way<\/em>. It\u2019s the very thing that threatened to tear my family apart\/very much was the worst betrayal of my entire life. I think I thought I was doing okay until I went to a counselor. I can\u2019t say enough about just combining therapy and theology as one pursues wholeness, healing, and health.\n\nI went to my counselor, and it was during a particularly devastating part of the journey that I was walking through. I walked in; I remember I had this thought, \u201cI don\u2019t remember when it was the last time that I actually washed my hair <em>or<\/em> brushed my hair.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> I was just in this desperate place of feeling so broken and so hopeless. I walked into my counselor\u2019s office. He looked at me and he said, \u201cLysa, do you want to heal?\u201d I said, \u201cOf course, I want to heal. I\u2019m doubting if it\u2019s possible; because I just wonder, \u2018Is it possible to be so broken that healing becomes impossible?\u2019 But I <em>do<\/em> want to heal.\u201d\n\nHe said, \u201cThen today\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> day to start working on forgiveness.\u201d I remember thinking: \u201cThat\u2019s not even possible. I\u2019m not even in communication with this person that\u2019s hurt me so badly. They haven\u2019t said that they were sorry, and I don\u2019t know if reconciliation is ever going to be possible,\u201d and \u201cReally, honestly, I don\u2019t think that they\u2019ve suffered like they should suffer. Like they don\u2019t deserve my forgiveness; because if I forgive them, isn\u2019t that me saying, at this point, that what they did was okay when it very much was not okay?\u2019 and \u201cIsn\u2019t that me saying that it was no big deal when it was a <em>huge<\/em> deal? What if that other person doesn\u2019t even think that they need to be forgiven, then how do you even get traction in a situation like that?\u201d\n\nMy counselor listened to my resistance message; and he didn\u2019t argue with me, and he didn\u2019t fight against me. He just listened; and then he said, \u201cOkay, well, Lysa, let\u2019s just start with your pain.\u201d He handed me a stack of 3x5 cards; and he said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you just write out one thing on each card how you\u2019ve been hurt? Just write this pain, and this hurt, and this wound; just get it out.\u201d\n\nI started writing one thing on each card\u2014the <em>facts<\/em> of how I\u2019d been hurt\u2014suddenly, it was as if the entire floor in front of us was covered with my 3x5 cards.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Lysa, as you continue that, do you think most of us could write down a ton, or hundreds, or maybe 20 things of why we\u2019ve been hurt in our lives?\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> I think that people would be surprised at how much pain is really locked inside of them. Because we generally categorize our pain as an incident; when, in reality, there\u2019s 10, 20\/maybe, a 100 facts of how we\u2019ve been hurt that feed into that incident. Unless we look at the pain, and deal with the pain, it\u2019s <em>impossible<\/em> to heal from the pain.\n\nA lot of us are trying to fix the incident that happened, but without dealing with the pain that is <em>feeding<\/em> all of the emotion that\u2019s driving the <em>intensity<\/em> of the hurt and the chaos. Without dealing with that\u2014my counselor has told me before\u2014\u201cWhen it\u2019s hysterical, it\u2019s historical; and what\u2019s not worked out will be acted out.\u201d How it was playing out with me is I would say: \u201cOh, no; I\u2019m not bitter,\u201d \u201cOh, no; like I\u2019ve dealt with the pain.\u201d\n\nBut then I would get triggered\/somebody would say something or something would happen\u2014and it was maybe a minor offense\u2014but I would have a completely out-of-proportion reaction to their very small offense, and my reaction didn\u2019t even have very much to do with <em>them<\/em>. It\u2019s that I have unhealed pain from my past, and I was pulling it into my very present situation. Anytime we act hysterical\u2014not hysterical like ha, ha funny\u2014but hysterical as in <em>too<\/em> much emotion for what\u2019s right in front of us: \u201cWhen it\u2019s hysterical, it\u2019s historical; it\u2019s undealt with.\u201d\n\nI used to think triggers were just <em>awful<\/em>, like the <em>worst<\/em> thing in the world; but now, I look at triggers differently. They are inconvenient; I wish I could time my triggers, but that\u2019s not how triggers work. Because triggers catch you off guard, I used to think, \u201cThis is so cruel. Why would God allow the triggers to happen like this? It\u2019s <em>so<\/em> awful.\u201d But then I realized it\u2019s actually God\u2019s mercy; because if the full impact of hurt would hit us at the exact moment when the devastation happens, it could kill us. So how good and gracious of God to let the pain leak into our life\u2014months even, sometimes, years\u2014so that we can almost bite off our healing, one little piece at a time.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So go back\u2014you\u2019re in your counselor\u2019s office\u2014can you share some of the writings that were on some of those cards?\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Some of the <em>deepest<\/em> wounding was: \u201cI thought I could trust you,\u201d \u201cI felt like I had it all together; and then choices were made, that I had no say so over, that made everything fall apart,\u201d \u201cThis is my <em>favorite<\/em> part of my life, and you took it away,\u201d\u2014a lot of deep pain there.\n\nI remember, when I stood back and looked at all those cards on the floor, I remember thinking, \u201cNo <em>wonder<\/em> I\u2019m so exhausted. Look at all I\u2019ve been carrying.\u201d I didn\u2019t even realize how much was really there until I wrote it out.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You even mentioned like you were <em>sick<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you think that had something to do with what was on the floor?\u2014\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014the effects of the stress, and the pain, and the betrayal.\n\n<strong>Lysa:<\/strong> Absolutely; because in your body, the neuro pathways that carry physical pain also carry emotional pain; the two are very connected. It\u2019s just more, in physical pain, there is a protocol that\u2019s set up that people know exactly what to do; people know how to support you. You get to a doctor; and the doctor, if it\u2019s intense enough, admits you to the hospital. If there\u2019s brokenness, then you put a cast on it; if there\u2019s bleeding, then you stitch it up; if there\u2019s\u2014you know what I\u2019m saying?\u2014there\u2019s like a whole protocol.\n\nBut if you\u2019re sitting on the side of the road\u2014and its emotional pain: there\u2019s no blood; there\u2019s no broken bone\u2014there\u2019s no place to go. Like if I was in this much physical pain, and they did surgery, they would put me to sleep; because they would have <em>mercy<\/em> on the intensity of the pain. But when you\u2019re in <em>intense<\/em> emotional pain, you feel like there\u2019s surgery being done to you, but without being put to sleep!\n\nThat almost seems just insane to me that we would have to <em>suffer<\/em> on that deep level of emotional pain without some kind of immediate relief. Obviously, people can go and get medication, and all of that, but there just wasn\u2019t that <em>instant<\/em> protocol. It\u2019s like there was this timer\u2014you have to figure it out\u2014and it\u2019s very complicated.\n\nI was there in my counselor\u2019s office, and he looked at all of those cards, and he said back to me one of the kindest, most meaningful statements that a human has ever spoken to me; and he said: \u201cLysa, I believe you,\u201d and \u201cI not only believe you, but what\u2019s happened to you was wrong,\u201d and \u201cIf no one in this world dares to say they\u2019re sorry, I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019ll say that to you today.\u201d\n\nI know that there\u2019s a listener right now, who is resonating with the intensity of emotional pain, feeling betrayed, feeling abandoned, feeling broken. Maybe it\u2019s because of choices you fed into, or maybe you had choices placed <em>on<\/em> you. Whatever the circumstances are\u2014maybe you\u2019re even feeling brokenhearted and not able to forgive yourself\u2014but whatever it is, I just want to say to you: \u201cI believe you. That pain is hard, and it is all consuming,\u201d and \u201cWe don\u2019t need to compare our pain with someone else\u2019s pain. We just acknowledge, in the context of our life, it is intense; and it\u2019s hard. What happened to you, that fed into all the situation that you are in and is causing you so much pain, what happened was wrong,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m so, so sorry. And if no one else in this world has ever <em>dared<\/em> to bear witness to your pain, I will.\u201d\n\nWhen my counselor did that for <em>me<\/em> on that day, it helped me put my guard down. This is the thought that popped into my head: \u201cI deserve to stop suffering because of what other people have done to me.\u201d Then it was <em>less<\/em> about having that epic moment, where the other person realizes how wrong they were, and they say they\u2019re sorry; because you don\u2019t have any control over what another person says, or does, or will or will not do. And if you wait for <em>them<\/em> to make choices to let your healing journey happen, then you are letting the person that hurt you the most hijack your ability to heal.\n\nI knew I had to <em>detach<\/em> my ability to heal from another person\u2019s choices. I put a stake in the ground and said, \u201cI deserve to stop suffering, because of what another person has done to me. This is <em>my<\/em> pain, and it\u2019s <em>my<\/em> choice to heal.\u201d Jim [the counselor] looked back at me, and he said, \u201cOkay, <em>now<\/em> it\u2019s time to just <em>verbalize<\/em> forgiveness and have that marked moment, where you know you\u2019ve been obedient to God.\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cThat\u2019s great; but what if my feelings are not cooperating with this?\u2014because my head says, \u2018Yes!\u2019 but the pain inside of my heart says, \u2018No!\u2019; and I don\u2019t want to <em>fake<\/em> it with God because God <em>sees<\/em>.\u201d\n\nJim said, \u201cLysa, you just have to remember that forgiveness is not something you conjure up in yourself; forgiveness is something that God has provided.\u201d I had this picture of, as God\u2019s forgiveness flows <em>to<\/em> me, I simply must cooperate with it and let it flow <em>through<\/em> me. So forgiveness isn\u2019t something that I have to figure out; I just have to cooperate with God\u2019s forgiveness.\n\nJim gave me a little script to say. I went, card by card by card; and the script I would say is: \u201cI forgive this person for <em>this<\/em> particular pain; and whatever my feelings will not yet allow for, the blood of Jesus will surely cover it.\u201d He handed me some red felt squares; and so each time I said that, I would lay a piece of red felt over that card. By the time I got to the <em>very<\/em> last card\u2014and the very last time I said, \u201cI forgive this person for this <em>specific<\/em> pain; and whatever my feelings will not yet allow for, the blood of Jesus will cover it,\u201d and I covered that last one with red felt\u2014I looked back; and it was no longer the <em>pain<\/em> that was staring at me.\n\nI realized, \u201cI\u2019ve been obedient to God, <em>and<\/em> I still have some stuff to work through and that\u2019s okay.\u201d Because forgiveness is <em>both<\/em> a decision, which I made that day, and it\u2019s a process of healing; and it can be <em>both<\/em>. We forgive in a moment for the fact of what happened; but learning to forgive for the <em>impact<\/em>, that\u2019s going to take a long time. God\u2019s command for us to forgive allows space for both.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s really <em>powerful<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Boy, oh boy, I remember reading that\u2014again, sitting on a beach in a glorious setting\u2014that very chapter where you talk about the cards\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You shared it with me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and I shared it with Ann\u2014and I just thought, \u201cI need to do that.\u201d I\u2019ve had the big moment in my life of forgiving my dad\u2014was a big one\u2014but even as you talk, and even as I read your book, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, I have, I bet you, 30-40 cards right now I could <em>easily<\/em> write.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think we <em>all<\/em> do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think we all could, so that\u2019s why I bring it up. I thought, \u201cWhat if a listener, or a thousand or tens of thousands of listeners, did that process today?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it would be <em>amazing<\/em>. It would be really interesting to share this whole concept with the family around the table. I was thinking it would be really cool to talk about that, and the necessity of it, but also the reality of forgiveness. It\u2019s not an easy thing, and it\u2019s not a one-time thing; it\u2019s a process.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and it starts <em>today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Forgiving someone who has hurt us can be really hard. It\u2019s also not an option for us, who are followers of Christ. We\u2019ve been forgiven much, and we are called to forgive one another. Dave and Ann Wilson have been talking today with Lysa TerKeurst, who\u2019s written a book called <em>Forgiving What You Can\u2019t Forget: Discover How to Move On, Make Peace with Painful Memories, and Create a Life That\u2019s Beautiful Again<\/em>.\n\nIf you are struggling with this issue of forgiveness\u2014if there\u2019s someone who has hurt you, and you think, \u201cI <em>can\u2019t<\/em> forgive them,\u201d\u2014let me encourage you to get a copy of Lysa\u2019s book. It\u2019s available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Order it from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website to order a copy of Lysa TerKeurst book, <em>Forgiving What You Can\u2019t Forget<\/em>, is FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAnd don\u2019t forget: this week and next week, we are encouraging you to join with thousands of other couples, from all across the country, who this fall are going to be joining <em>us<\/em> at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. We\u2019re so excited to have a full schedule of getaways planned for this fall. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to find out when a getaway is happening in a city near where you live. If you register today for an upcoming getaway, you will save 50 percent off the regular registration fee.\n\nIt\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> opportunity for you and your spouse to have a getaway as a couple; and honestly, I think all of us could use a couple of days to getaway and refresh a little bit. It\u2019s been quite a season; hasn\u2019t it? Find out more\u2014you can register online, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014but register now so you can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Again, details are online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call us to register at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more from Lysa TerKeurst about the process God took her through as she had to wrestle with forgiving someone who had hurt her profoundly\/very deeply. The conversation continues tomorrow. I hope you can join us.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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