{"id":307206,"date":"2021-08-23T14:34:35","date_gmt":"2021-08-23T18:34:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/sanctified-feminism-2\/"},"modified":"2021-08-23T14:34:35","modified_gmt":"2021-08-23T18:34:35","slug":"sanctified-feminism-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/sanctified-feminism-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Sanctified Feminism"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The origins of feminism were good and noble, even if the culture has taken it too far. Tim Muehlhoff and Courtney Reissig talk about the origins of feminism, and how Jesus valued women.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2021-08-21.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:00","filesize":"25.64M","filesize_raw":"26883593","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2821],"tags":[7000,4001],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3418,3245],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-307206","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-feminisim","tag-women","cwp_profile-courtney-reissig","cwp_profile-tim-muehlhoff","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307206\/sanctified-feminism-2","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307206\/sanctified-feminism-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"wImJx38XUP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/sanctified-feminism-2\/\">Sanctified Feminism<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/sanctified-feminism-2\/embed\/#?secret=wImJx38XUP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Sanctified Feminism&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"wImJx38XUP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2021-08-21.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2021-08-21.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Many of us have heard the Bible verse, James 1:27; it goes something like this: \u201cPure and undefiled religion is to care for widows and orphans\u2026\u201d But like most of Scripture, we understand it <em>better<\/em> in context. Here\u2019s Tim Muehlhoff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That\u2019s why James\u2014the earliest New Testament book written\u2014James says, \u201cLet me tell you what true undefiled religion is in the sight of God, caring for orphans and widows in distress.\u201d There\u2019s a place now for women to go; they weren\u2019t just brought in to make coffee. In the ancient world, where there was no welfare system, there is a place now for women and children to go to be cared for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You\u2019re going to want to put on your spiritual floaties today; because we\u2019re going to go into the <em>deep<\/em> waters as we talk to Tim Muehlhoff and Courtney Reissig about the church\u2019s role in esteeming femininity, and seeing women <em>thrive<\/em> in our society, on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. In advertising, slogans capture the attention of an audience; and that\u2019s the point. It\u2019s supposed to be a memorable motto or a phrase that can be repeated over and over in order to persuade people or even to define a group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to say a few slogans and see if you can catch on to where I\u2019m heading today: \u201cThe hand that rocks the cradle can also rock the boat,\u201d \u201cWe try harder, and we get paid less,\u201d \u201cA woman\u2019s place is in the Resistance.\u201d Those are all slogans from the 1960s movement that we know as feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou might be thinking of feminism as the suffragette movement and women\u2019s right to vote or the sexual revolution of the 1960s. But I want us to go back <em>further<\/em> than that and think about women in the context of what Christ thought of them; I mean, look at Jesus talking to the woman at the well\u2014that was unheard of\u2014or how He treated Mary and Martha. Jesus was a <em>champion<\/em> to see women <em>thrive<\/em> in their society. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, we\u2019re going to talk about sanctified feminism. Tim Muehlhoff joins me in the studio today. He is the professor of communication at Biola University. Tim and his wife Noreen are friends of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> because they\u2019re speakers at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways. Tim is co-host of one of my <em>favorite<\/em> podcasts, <em>The Art of Relationship.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Thanks for joining me today!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> My pleasure; what a treat!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I want to talk about <em>feminism<\/em>. Feminism usually takes a bad rap with a lot of people. Actually, some people start twitching when they hear the word; [Laughter] other people, all of a sudden, jump to conclusions about where you stand politically or even spiritually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I was told by a former student of yours that you could help me understand the roots of biblical feminism and then move on from there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes, great; and how bad the misinformation is. It\u2019s incredibly important that we know it comes in three waves, not just a reaction to the sexual revolution. The first wave of feminism was very basic questions: \u201cAre women human?\u201d \u201cShould they be treated as human?\u201d \u201cAre they co-equals with men?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe might think that that\u2019s crazy, because we\u2019re so far past that; but the first wave of feminism, women were not treated as equals. There were very famous philosophers, who were arguing that women were basically grown-up children; and that\u2019s why they were great teachers and nurses, because they didn\u2019t have the capacity that men have. So in the first wave of feminism, women didn\u2019t have the right to vote. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> When was that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> We would say 1800s, the first wave. Think about the right to vote for a second\u2014why women were denied the right to vote\u2014they were denied for basically three reasons: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne, it was argued that women already had the right to vote: that they would vote the way their husband would vote, that they would never disagree with their husband. If you gave a woman the right to vote, you were, in essence, handing two votes to the husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond, literally, you [women] did not have the intellect to handle such big problems. We\u2019re talking about we\u2019re electing the leader of the most powerful country in the world. That was just, quite frankly, beyond women, who mostly thought about curtain dressings and how to make dinner; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe third one is my favorite: if we gave women the right to vote, it would inhibit your [women\u2019s] ability to conceive. [Laughter] I\u2019m serious! I am <em>dead<\/em> serious. Think about that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What would they do with people like Hannah Moore, and other ladies who were proving that they <em>had<\/em> a brain, and it was working overtime?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> \u2014Alice Paul, Susan B. Anthony\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes; yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> \u2014oh, my goodness. Seneca Falls\u2014which most people have <em>no idea<\/em> about the Seneca Falls Convention\u2014was the first time Frederick Douglas attended it. It was a convention that said that women need to have a voice. Again, women wanted a voice, not because they wanted their independence; they wanted a voice, because they cared about the Temperance Movement; they cared about slavery issues and wanted a political <em>voice<\/em> to help other people. But then they realized: \u201cI have no political voice whatsoever.\u201d That is the first wave of feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Jesus comes on the scene, He <em>elevates<\/em> women. He says, at the foot of the cross, there\u2019s neither male nor female; they\u2019re all one at the foot of the cross. In a radical way, He elevates women to say: \u201cWomen are just as important in the kingdom of God as men,\u201d and \u201cBoth are made in the image of God, and I died for both.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd He goes on to say, \u201cThe resurrection, My defining moment that validates who I am, I\u2019m going to pick, by providence, two women to be the witnesses,\u201d which, rhetorically, is a joke! Women at that time were not educated; in a court of law, suspect testimony; and yet, He says, \u201cNo, no, no! These two women will testify to the greatest act of the resurrection.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRemember when He\u2019s sitting, and a woman comes and opens up a vial of perfume, and then soaks His feet and wipes it? He says this: \u201cI tell you, anytime the gospel is proclaimed, this woman\u2019s story will be told.\u201d When taken from a feminist lens, this is Jesus elevating the narrative of women and giving them rhetorical voice. That is the first wave of feminism. Now, let\u2019s not be quick to say the first wave is over; for many parts of the world, the first wave of feminism is still happening now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> It\u2019s still happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes; Taliban-occupied territory, where women have <em>no voice<\/em> whatsoever; so the first wave of feminism is still being fought. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> But you\u2019d think the first way of feminism\u2014that\u2019s a <em>long<\/em> time\u2014I mean, we\u2019re talking 1800-2000 years that it\u2019s been\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes; and women have suffered! By the way, the #MeToo movement\u2014which is the second wave of feminism\u2014shows us that women have been treated really poorly in <em>this<\/em> country, as well, as other countries. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first wave of feminism roughly ends with women getting the right to vote. Then, we usher in what we roughly call the second wave of feminism, happens early 1900\u2019s. Second wave is: \u201cShould women get the right to earn as much as a man does? If we do equal work, shouldn\u2019t we get equal pay?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, think about that for a second. The whole Hollywood scandal today is\u2014remember certain actresses coming forward and saying, \u201cHere is what my co-actor gets,\u201d\u2014male actor\u2014\u201cand I get a <em>fraction<\/em> of what he gets. I actually am pulling in more attention to the movie than my co-actor.\u201d Again, in some ways, we\u2019re fighting\/the second wave of feminism is still happening today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second wave of feminism would be abortion rights. Obviously, that\u2019s where a Christian says, \u201cI can\u2019t buy <em>all<\/em> of the second wave of feminism. There\u2019s parts of it I resist, but there\u2019s a lot of it I agree with.\u201d We just have to be careful to be discerning when it comes to the different waves of feminism.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe radical third wave is where we get things like a totally relativistic view\u2014there\u2019s no right; no wrong\u2014these are all the gender wars that we\u2019re seeing today. Gender fluidity would be attributed to the third wave of feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I see: when Christians get up and talk about feminism, they\u2019re generally talking about the third wave and painting it in the most negative light possible. I like to educate people and say, \u201cWhat wave are you even talking about? Don\u2019t always paint feminism in such negative tones. We hate that, as Christians, when people point to the most negative parts of our Christian perspective; so let\u2019s be <em>generous<\/em> with feminists. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I was even reading an article the other day, where the author was saying, \u201cGod is the first feminist, because He created man and woman equal.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> If that\u2019s the way He created it, He was the first feminist. There were a lot of people, who were like\/you know, the twitching of the eye, going, \u201cOh, wha-a-a-t?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> I did all my grad work at UNC Chapel Hill. It\u2019s one of the <em>top<\/em> universities when it comes to feminist theory in the country. I didn\u2019t know anything about feminism when I got there. What I would love to say to my friends\u2014when they would say, \u201cThe Bible is so sexist. I don\u2019t understand how you can subscribe to it,\u201d\u2014I <em>loved<\/em> pointing back to the Song of Solomon. In a time, when women had no rhetorical voice whatsoever, and if they <em>did<\/em> speak, you certainly wouldn\u2019t talk about sexuality. I <em>love<\/em> that God included that in the canon to say, \u201cA woman\u2019s voice should be listened to.\u201d The Song of Solomon is a <em>wonderful<\/em> example, to my non-Christian friends, who think the Bible is completely sexist and anti-woman; I would say, \u201cThe Song of Solomon is pro-woman\/pro-rhetorical voice for a woman in all the positive ways.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Tim, when you explain to somebody that you are a Christian feminist\u2014and they look at you and go, \u201cWhat?!\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>[Laughter] Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>\u2014what do you tell them?! How do you explain that to them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> The first thing I say is: \u201cYou define feminism for me. What\u2019s <em>your<\/em> definition of feminism? How do you think about it?\u201d Almost exclusively, they describe it in the third wave\u2014and the second wave\u2014let\u2019s be honest; most feminists are absolutely staunchly pro-choice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, I\u2019m pro-choice. I\u2019m pro-choice that a woman ought to, almost in <em>every<\/em> regard, have the right over her body\u2014we\u2019ve seen great abuses of a woman not having a right to what happens to her body\u2014<em>except<\/em> when that infringes upon another human being, which would be the fetus. We believe the fetus is fully human; a woman <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> have a right to mistreat a child\/doesn\u2019t have a right to mistreat a fetus. Again, I\u2019m pro-choice all the way, except when it has to do with affecting the lives of other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI first ask a person: \u201cYou define feminism for me.\u201d Usually, we get a radical part. When I break down the three waves, like we just did, it really is an \u201cA-ha\u201d moment for people. I really do feel like it\u2019s an education process: \u201cLet\u2019s not overlook all these commonalities and points of agreement as we rush towards points of disagreement.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What it sounds like is feminism <em>has<\/em> helped our society; it has <em>improved<\/em> it in many ways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> There\u2019s a wonderful book called <em>The Rise of Christianity<\/em> by Rodney Stark. He\u2019s a sociologist, who asks the question: \u201cWhy did the church explode like it did?\u201d He answers it from a sociological standpoint. He does say, for two reasons: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPlagues hit the Roman Empire\u201440 percent mortality rates\u2014and Christians really did practice neighbor love\u2014and it cost them their lives\u2014they went and helped people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond, he said that, in an ancient world, where there was no welfare system, there is a place now for women and children to go to be cared for. That\u2019s why James\u2014I love saying this to my students at Biola University\u2014James, the earliest New Testament book written\u2014James says, \u201cLet me tell you what true, undefiled religion is in the sight of God; caring for orphans and widows in distress.\u201d There\u2019s a place now for women to go, and they weren\u2019t just brought in to make coffee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe know that there were woman deaconesses. Again, I like <em>expanding<\/em> people\u2019s idea of what feminism is. Feminism has gotten a bad rap among conservative circles. I think a lot of it is based on, quite frankly, ignorance. We need to do a better job of explaining what feminism is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point, Tim. We need to take a quick break. When we come back, I want us to talk about: parenting and feminism, and what we should be teaching our daughters; and also, the #MeToo Movement. We\u2019ll be back in <em>two minutes<\/em>. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. Tim Muehlhoff joins me in the studio today. Tim is an author and a professor of communication at Biola University.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve been talking about sanctified feminism today and the waves of feminism that have <em>washed<\/em> over our culture. I\u2019m thinking about our daughters as we\u2019re raising young girls today. We\u2019re looking out across our society\/our culture, and we\u2019re seeing this third wave rise up\u2014well, it\u2019s already been bubbling\u2014so the third wave is here. How do we help our daughters, who are living right there right now? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> If I could distill all of communication theory into one principle: \u201cStart with areas of agreement\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lot! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes, all of it\/all of it\u2014[Laughter] Boom!\u2014here we go! [Laughter] All of it would be: \u201cStart with areas of agreement and move towards disagreement.\u201d Today\u2019s \u201cargument culture\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a term coined by Deborah Tannen at Georgetown University\u2014we start with a disagreement. I would say to young daughters\u2014and again, I have three boys\u2014but with young women, I\u2019d say, \u201cTake a look at the positive aspects of feminism, and have your discernment radar on about the parts that deviate from a Christian world view.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, there\u2019s so much common ground to be had today, like with the #MeToo Movement. I mean, it\u2019s stunning\u2014what\u2019s happening\/what women have had to endure at the hands of really powerful men\u2014I\u2019m afraid that we\u2019re going to grow tired of the #MeToo Movement; like, \u201cOh my goodness; another person?\u201d Let\u2019s let it run its full course. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re in Hollywood, Harvey Weinstein is <em>untouchable<\/em>. If you speak out against him, it ruins your career. And yet, women have heroically stepped up and have said: \u201cYes, this happened to me,\u201d \u201cThis happened to me,\u201d \u201cThis is what he tried to do to me.\u201d #MeToo, I think, has been, by and large, positive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe still have due process\u2014let\u2019s let justice work\u2014but at the same time, justice is propelled by the voices of men and women, who stand up and say: \u201cThis is wrong; this is evil,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019ve got to address this.\u201d There is strength in numbers; I certainly hope Christians are part of the #MeToo Movement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I\u2019ve seen some, so I know that they\u2019re out there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> We need to be; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We do need to be. It was almost just this fall when the #MeToo movement came out. There were just so many scandals that were\u2014that the cover was taken off it\u2014and you could <em>see<\/em> what was going on. It was like: \u201cWhat next is going to happen? What next is going to be found out?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> And if we need to clean house in the Christian church, we need to clean house. If we have inappropriate things happening to women within churches, we\u2019ve got to create a communication climate, where women can come forward\u2014even if it\u2019s just so depressing, the names that are being implicated\u2014again, due process! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a man, it does concern me that a person can have an allegation against me, and that allegation\u2019s going to do a lot of damage. I have to have certain protection; there has to be due process. That\u2019s why HR exists within organizations. But I want women to have the freedom to say, \u201cI can\u2019t stay silent about this anymore.\u201d To me, that\u2019s a <em>good<\/em> thing\u2014and needs to start with the house of God\u2014that we clean house first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRemember the book of Hebrews: \u201cI want you to pray for those in prison as if <em>you<\/em> were in prison.\u201d I think we always need to imagine what it was like to be a woman, who has had to endure this kind of sexism; or a child living in abject poverty. We need to have times of respite; but we need to always go back to say, \u201cThis is the pain that I\u2019ve been called to deal with [on behalf of others].\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of the woman at the well, and just having Jesus show up and talk to her!\u2014and for her to walk away, going, \u201cWow! What an <em>incredible<\/em> man He was. He cared about <em>me<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That message radicalized the ancient world\u2014is that women and children\u2014God loved them <em>equally<\/em> as men. There is not one\u2014this is what I love about Christianity\u2014there is not one person in this world [who] is beyond the <em>imago dei<\/em>\/beyond the fact that they were made in the image of God. That is <em>radical<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI spent some time in India; we visited some orphanages that were heartbreaking. If you were a woman, with any type of deformity, you were <em>never<\/em> getting out of that orphanage. No one is going to marry you; no one is going to have any time for you. I <em>love<\/em> that Jesus walks into those situations and says, \u201cNo; you are equally valuable to Me as anyone.\u201d That\u2019s the <em>radical<\/em> message of Christianity; I love that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Very important, very important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sad to say that our time has run out. Tim, thank you so much for spending time with me today and helping us understand feminism, and the #MeToo movement, and just everything. Your advice and wisdom on the topic has been fantastic and wonderful. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I love that Tim reminded us that we\u2014men and women\u2014that we\u2019re <em>equal<\/em> in God\u2019s image. We were <em>created<\/em> equal; we are co-laborers in His kingdom, and we are co-heirs with Christ; and we\u2019re called to different roles. But equality doesn\u2019t mean sameness. We live in a world, where we think sameness and equality should be the same thing; we expect sameness, as in equal pay\/equal treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there\u2019s something deeper at play in the minds of many Christian women today\/many young Christian women today. The secular feminist movement has affected us all. Courtney Reissig would say that she\u2019s an \u201caccidental feminist,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the title of her first book. One thing that Courtney points out is that secular feminism\u2014that has seduced many women\u2014it\u2019s not the answer. There\u2019s a better answer, and it\u2019s <em>bigger<\/em>. Here\u2019s Courtney talking with Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Broadcast]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>I think it is default. I think some women are, consciously, saying they are feminist. When those women are\u2014I think they maybe are seeing some evidences of women not being, in their minds, equal\u2014or they feel like women are not getting the advantages that they need, and so they want equality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think most women are embracing feminism and not even realizing it. Even a woman, who would say, \u201cI\u2019m not a feminist,\u201d is most likely embracing it; because it\u2019s just what we live and breathe in our culture now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, if you ask the average person on the street: \u201cWhat is feminism?\u201d most of them are going to say, \u201cEqual pay for equal work;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s what feminism is.\u201d By the way, if that\u2019s what it is, I\u2019m a feminist.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You don\u2019t have any problems with equal pay for equal work for women; right?\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0No; no, I don\u2019t. A Christian women\u2019s author calls it: \u201cA radical notion that Jesus believes that women are people too,\u201d\u2014which is\u2014[Laughter]\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You would agree with that?\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Absolutely!\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Okay; so what\u2019s the difference between \u201cthe radical notion that Jesus believes women are people too,\u201d and the kind of feminism that you would say is problematic in the church culture today?\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Because feminism is very fluid, so people\/you can\u2019t really pin it down. Some women will say\u2014like the other author would say that \u201cIt\u2019s the radical notion that women are people too,\u201d\u2014some would say it is equality: \u201cEqual pay for equal work.\u201d I define it as: \u201cEquality equals sameness.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe I first heard Mary Kassian say that before\/is that: \u201cWe are equal; therefore, we are the same,\u201d\u2014so we can do the same things\u2014if a woman wants to preach, she can preach; submission in marriage is mutual\u2014It doesn\u2019t matter if the husband submits or the wife submits\u2014we are both called to submit to one another. It doesn\u2019t matter who stays home with the children\u2014a husband can stay home or a mom can stay home\u2014it doesn\u2019t really matter. It\u2019s the interchangeability of that; besides biology, we\u2019re really not all that different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that that\u2019s the more problematic notion of feminism. That\u2019s kind of what we all believe if we are not consciously looking beyond that for answers in Scripture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You answer that in your book by going back to the book of Genesis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\u2014and talk about how men and women are made in the image of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes; yes. People think feminism is the answer for women; and I actually, think it\u2019s not. I think Genesis is the answer for women\u2014God created us in His image\u2014we are telling a story about God in our humanity. But then, it also goes on to say, in\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Gen%201.26\" target=\"_blank\">Genesis 1:26<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Genesis%201.27\" target=\"_blank\">27<\/a>, that He created male and female in His image. There has got to be something there about being female that images God that is not just mere humanity or biology.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that feminism was trying to answer a problem of the battle of the sexes, which is a problem that we see coming out of Genesis 3, where sin entered the world; and now, we have strife. Feminism isn\u2019t the answer. If we had just gone back to the Word of God, we could see that the answer is found in: \u201cWe were created to image God in very unique ways that tell a\u00a0story\u00a0about who God is,\u201d\u2014and a much better story than what feminism could ever tell us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I\u2019ve said, for years, that during the \u201850s and the \u201860s\u2014the time when I was growing up\u2014I think the culture endorsed and embraced male selfishness in such a way that, after years of that, a lot of women said: \u201cWell, now, hang on just a second!\u00a0 If men can be as self-focused as they can be, we should have the right to be equally selfish.\u201d\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And I\u2019ve said that, in my mind, is: \u201cSecond-wave feminism\u2019s, saying, \u2018I want the right to be as self-focused and as selfish as men have been allowed to be,\u2019\u2014not just allowed to be but celebrated.\u201d I, for one, am not interested in going back to the\u00a0Mad Men\u00a0days and saying, \u201cThis is what it should be like for men and women in our culture.\u201d\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0It\u2019s so unique, too, in an American Western culture. It doesn\u2019t take into account the person, who lives in India, or the person, who lives in Africa. We\/there has got to be something bigger than just a throwback to the \u201850s and \u201860s, or even a throwback to the 1900s and late 1800s, when first-wave feminists were coming on the scene; because they were answering a very real problem of women had no voice. A husband could divorce his wife and take her children, and she had <em>no<\/em> voice to do anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Maternal health laws weren\u2019t in place, so a woman had no voice to care for herself and her unborn baby. There were very real problems that were addressed; but I think, as Christians, we have a better answer than putting women in front of men and continuing this whole battle-of-the-sexes thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Courtney Reissig talking about the <em>cost<\/em> of secular feminism. I love what Courtney has to say\u2014that we are in a Genesis 3 world\u2014we have sinned against God; the world is <em>broken<\/em> because of that. We have forgotten that we are made in His image; and we should not be at war, because He made man and woman in His image. If you look at the Trinity, and how the Trinity reflects relationship\u2014perfect relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit\u2014we should be at peace and reflecting Him to a watching world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you want to hear the entire interview with Courtney Reissig on <em>Accidental Feminism<\/em>, go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNext time, we\u2019re going to talk about prodigals. Do you ever find someone you love rejecting the gospel and rebelling against <em>you<\/em>? We\u2019re going to give you help and hope if there\u2019s a prodigal in your life. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, thanks for listening! I want to thank the co-founder of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and the president, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. A big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producers, Bruce Goff and Marques Holt. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer; Megan Martin is our production coordinator; and Raven Simmons is our production intern.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:00"],"show_notes":[""],"filesize":["25.64M"],"filesize_raw":["26883593"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-307206.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-307206.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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origins of feminism were good and noble, even if the culture has taken it too far. Tim Muehlhoff and Courtney Reissig talk about the origins of feminism, and how Jesus valued women.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2021-08-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Many of us have heard the Bible verse, James 1:27; it goes something like this: \u201cPure and undefiled religion is to care for widows and orphans\u2026\u201d But like most of Scripture, we understand it <em>better<\/em> in context. Here\u2019s Tim Muehlhoff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That\u2019s why James\u2014the earliest New Testament book written\u2014James says, \u201cLet me tell you what true undefiled religion is in the sight of God, caring for orphans and widows in distress.\u201d There\u2019s a place now for women to go; they weren\u2019t just brought in to make coffee. In the ancient world, where there was no welfare system, there is a place now for women and children to go to be cared for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You\u2019re going to want to put on your spiritual floaties today; because we\u2019re going to go into the <em>deep<\/em> waters as we talk to Tim Muehlhoff and Courtney Reissig about the church\u2019s role in esteeming femininity, and seeing women <em>thrive<\/em> in our society, on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. In advertising, slogans capture the attention of an audience; and that\u2019s the point. It\u2019s supposed to be a memorable motto or a phrase that can be repeated over and over in order to persuade people or even to define a group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to say a few slogans and see if you can catch on to where I\u2019m heading today: \u201cThe hand that rocks the cradle can also rock the boat,\u201d \u201cWe try harder, and we get paid less,\u201d \u201cA woman\u2019s place is in the Resistance.\u201d Those are all slogans from the 1960s movement that we know as feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou might be thinking of feminism as the suffragette movement and women\u2019s right to vote or the sexual revolution of the 1960s. But I want us to go back <em>further<\/em> than that and think about women in the context of what Christ thought of them; I mean, look at Jesus talking to the woman at the well\u2014that was unheard of\u2014or how He treated Mary and Martha. Jesus was a <em>champion<\/em> to see women <em>thrive<\/em> in their society. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, we\u2019re going to talk about sanctified feminism. Tim Muehlhoff joins me in the studio today. He is the professor of communication at Biola University. Tim and his wife Noreen are friends of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> because they\u2019re speakers at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways. Tim is co-host of one of my <em>favorite<\/em> podcasts, <em>The Art of Relationship.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Thanks for joining me today!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> My pleasure; what a treat!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I want to talk about <em>feminism<\/em>. Feminism usually takes a bad rap with a lot of people. Actually, some people start twitching when they hear the word; [Laughter] other people, all of a sudden, jump to conclusions about where you stand politically or even spiritually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I was told by a former student of yours that you could help me understand the roots of biblical feminism and then move on from there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes, great; and how bad the misinformation is. It\u2019s incredibly important that we know it comes in three waves, not just a reaction to the sexual revolution. The first wave of feminism was very basic questions: \u201cAre women human?\u201d \u201cShould they be treated as human?\u201d \u201cAre they co-equals with men?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe might think that that\u2019s crazy, because we\u2019re so far past that; but the first wave of feminism, women were not treated as equals. There were very famous philosophers, who were arguing that women were basically grown-up children; and that\u2019s why they were great teachers and nurses, because they didn\u2019t have the capacity that men have. So in the first wave of feminism, women didn\u2019t have the right to vote. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> When was that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> We would say 1800s, the first wave. Think about the right to vote for a second\u2014why women were denied the right to vote\u2014they were denied for basically three reasons: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne, it was argued that women already had the right to vote: that they would vote the way their husband would vote, that they would never disagree with their husband. If you gave a woman the right to vote, you were, in essence, handing two votes to the husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond, literally, you [women] did not have the intellect to handle such big problems. We\u2019re talking about we\u2019re electing the leader of the most powerful country in the world. That was just, quite frankly, beyond women, who mostly thought about curtain dressings and how to make dinner; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe third one is my favorite: if we gave women the right to vote, it would inhibit your [women\u2019s] ability to conceive. [Laughter] I\u2019m serious! I am <em>dead<\/em> serious. Think about that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What would they do with people like Hannah Moore, and other ladies who were proving that they <em>had<\/em> a brain, and it was working overtime?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> \u2014Alice Paul, Susan B. Anthony\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes; yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> \u2014oh, my goodness. Seneca Falls\u2014which most people have <em>no idea<\/em> about the Seneca Falls Convention\u2014was the first time Frederick Douglas attended it. It was a convention that said that women need to have a voice. Again, women wanted a voice, not because they wanted their independence; they wanted a voice, because they cared about the Temperance Movement; they cared about slavery issues and wanted a political <em>voice<\/em> to help other people. But then they realized: \u201cI have no political voice whatsoever.\u201d That is the first wave of feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Jesus comes on the scene, He <em>elevates<\/em> women. He says, at the foot of the cross, there\u2019s neither male nor female; they\u2019re all one at the foot of the cross. In a radical way, He elevates women to say: \u201cWomen are just as important in the kingdom of God as men,\u201d and \u201cBoth are made in the image of God, and I died for both.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd He goes on to say, \u201cThe resurrection, My defining moment that validates who I am, I\u2019m going to pick, by providence, two women to be the witnesses,\u201d which, rhetorically, is a joke! Women at that time were not educated; in a court of law, suspect testimony; and yet, He says, \u201cNo, no, no! These two women will testify to the greatest act of the resurrection.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRemember when He\u2019s sitting, and a woman comes and opens up a vial of perfume, and then soaks His feet and wipes it? He says this: \u201cI tell you, anytime the gospel is proclaimed, this woman\u2019s story will be told.\u201d When taken from a feminist lens, this is Jesus elevating the narrative of women and giving them rhetorical voice. That is the first wave of feminism. Now, let\u2019s not be quick to say the first wave is over; for many parts of the world, the first wave of feminism is still happening now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> It\u2019s still happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes; Taliban-occupied territory, where women have <em>no voice<\/em> whatsoever; so the first wave of feminism is still being fought. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> But you\u2019d think the first way of feminism\u2014that\u2019s a <em>long<\/em> time\u2014I mean, we\u2019re talking 1800-2000 years that it\u2019s been\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes; and women have suffered! By the way, the #MeToo movement\u2014which is the second wave of feminism\u2014shows us that women have been treated really poorly in <em>this<\/em> country, as well, as other countries. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first wave of feminism roughly ends with women getting the right to vote. Then, we usher in what we roughly call the second wave of feminism, happens early 1900\u2019s. Second wave is: \u201cShould women get the right to earn as much as a man does? If we do equal work, shouldn\u2019t we get equal pay?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, think about that for a second. The whole Hollywood scandal today is\u2014remember certain actresses coming forward and saying, \u201cHere is what my co-actor gets,\u201d\u2014male actor\u2014\u201cand I get a <em>fraction<\/em> of what he gets. I actually am pulling in more attention to the movie than my co-actor.\u201d Again, in some ways, we\u2019re fighting\/the second wave of feminism is still happening today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second wave of feminism would be abortion rights. Obviously, that\u2019s where a Christian says, \u201cI can\u2019t buy <em>all<\/em> of the second wave of feminism. There\u2019s parts of it I resist, but there\u2019s a lot of it I agree with.\u201d We just have to be careful to be discerning when it comes to the different waves of feminism.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe radical third wave is where we get things like a totally relativistic view\u2014there\u2019s no right; no wrong\u2014these are all the gender wars that we\u2019re seeing today. Gender fluidity would be attributed to the third wave of feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I see: when Christians get up and talk about feminism, they\u2019re generally talking about the third wave and painting it in the most negative light possible. I like to educate people and say, \u201cWhat wave are you even talking about? Don\u2019t always paint feminism in such negative tones. We hate that, as Christians, when people point to the most negative parts of our Christian perspective; so let\u2019s be <em>generous<\/em> with feminists. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I was even reading an article the other day, where the author was saying, \u201cGod is the first feminist, because He created man and woman equal.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> If that\u2019s the way He created it, He was the first feminist. There were a lot of people, who were like\/you know, the twitching of the eye, going, \u201cOh, wha-a-a-t?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> I did all my grad work at UNC Chapel Hill. It\u2019s one of the <em>top<\/em> universities when it comes to feminist theory in the country. I didn\u2019t know anything about feminism when I got there. What I would love to say to my friends\u2014when they would say, \u201cThe Bible is so sexist. I don\u2019t understand how you can subscribe to it,\u201d\u2014I <em>loved<\/em> pointing back to the Song of Solomon. In a time, when women had no rhetorical voice whatsoever, and if they <em>did<\/em> speak, you certainly wouldn\u2019t talk about sexuality. I <em>love<\/em> that God included that in the canon to say, \u201cA woman\u2019s voice should be listened to.\u201d The Song of Solomon is a <em>wonderful<\/em> example, to my non-Christian friends, who think the Bible is completely sexist and anti-woman; I would say, \u201cThe Song of Solomon is pro-woman\/pro-rhetorical voice for a woman in all the positive ways.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Tim, when you explain to somebody that you are a Christian feminist\u2014and they look at you and go, \u201cWhat?!\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>[Laughter] Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>\u2014what do you tell them?! How do you explain that to them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> The first thing I say is: \u201cYou define feminism for me. What\u2019s <em>your<\/em> definition of feminism? How do you think about it?\u201d Almost exclusively, they describe it in the third wave\u2014and the second wave\u2014let\u2019s be honest; most feminists are absolutely staunchly pro-choice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, I\u2019m pro-choice. I\u2019m pro-choice that a woman ought to, almost in <em>every<\/em> regard, have the right over her body\u2014we\u2019ve seen great abuses of a woman not having a right to what happens to her body\u2014<em>except<\/em> when that infringes upon another human being, which would be the fetus. We believe the fetus is fully human; a woman <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> have a right to mistreat a child\/doesn\u2019t have a right to mistreat a fetus. Again, I\u2019m pro-choice all the way, except when it has to do with affecting the lives of other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI first ask a person: \u201cYou define feminism for me.\u201d Usually, we get a radical part. When I break down the three waves, like we just did, it really is an \u201cA-ha\u201d moment for people. I really do feel like it\u2019s an education process: \u201cLet\u2019s not overlook all these commonalities and points of agreement as we rush towards points of disagreement.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What it sounds like is feminism <em>has<\/em> helped our society; it has <em>improved<\/em> it in many ways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> There\u2019s a wonderful book called <em>The Rise of Christianity<\/em> by Rodney Stark. He\u2019s a sociologist, who asks the question: \u201cWhy did the church explode like it did?\u201d He answers it from a sociological standpoint. He does say, for two reasons: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPlagues hit the Roman Empire\u201440 percent mortality rates\u2014and Christians really did practice neighbor love\u2014and it cost them their lives\u2014they went and helped people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond, he said that, in an ancient world, where there was no welfare system, there is a place now for women and children to go to be cared for. That\u2019s why James\u2014I love saying this to my students at Biola University\u2014James, the earliest New Testament book written\u2014James says, \u201cLet me tell you what true, undefiled religion is in the sight of God; caring for orphans and widows in distress.\u201d There\u2019s a place now for women to go, and they weren\u2019t just brought in to make coffee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe know that there were woman deaconesses. Again, I like <em>expanding<\/em> people\u2019s idea of what feminism is. Feminism has gotten a bad rap among conservative circles. I think a lot of it is based on, quite frankly, ignorance. We need to do a better job of explaining what feminism is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point, Tim. We need to take a quick break. When we come back, I want us to talk about: parenting and feminism, and what we should be teaching our daughters; and also, the #MeToo Movement. We\u2019ll be back in <em>two minutes<\/em>. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. Tim Muehlhoff joins me in the studio today. Tim is an author and a professor of communication at Biola University.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve been talking about sanctified feminism today and the waves of feminism that have <em>washed<\/em> over our culture. I\u2019m thinking about our daughters as we\u2019re raising young girls today. We\u2019re looking out across our society\/our culture, and we\u2019re seeing this third wave rise up\u2014well, it\u2019s already been bubbling\u2014so the third wave is here. How do we help our daughters, who are living right there right now? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> If I could distill all of communication theory into one principle: \u201cStart with areas of agreement\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lot! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes, all of it\/all of it\u2014[Laughter] Boom!\u2014here we go! [Laughter] All of it would be: \u201cStart with areas of agreement and move towards disagreement.\u201d Today\u2019s \u201cargument culture\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a term coined by Deborah Tannen at Georgetown University\u2014we start with a disagreement. I would say to young daughters\u2014and again, I have three boys\u2014but with young women, I\u2019d say, \u201cTake a look at the positive aspects of feminism, and have your discernment radar on about the parts that deviate from a Christian world view.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, there\u2019s so much common ground to be had today, like with the #MeToo Movement. I mean, it\u2019s stunning\u2014what\u2019s happening\/what women have had to endure at the hands of really powerful men\u2014I\u2019m afraid that we\u2019re going to grow tired of the #MeToo Movement; like, \u201cOh my goodness; another person?\u201d Let\u2019s let it run its full course. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re in Hollywood, Harvey Weinstein is <em>untouchable<\/em>. If you speak out against him, it ruins your career. And yet, women have heroically stepped up and have said: \u201cYes, this happened to me,\u201d \u201cThis happened to me,\u201d \u201cThis is what he tried to do to me.\u201d #MeToo, I think, has been, by and large, positive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe still have due process\u2014let\u2019s let justice work\u2014but at the same time, justice is propelled by the voices of men and women, who stand up and say: \u201cThis is wrong; this is evil,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019ve got to address this.\u201d There is strength in numbers; I certainly hope Christians are part of the #MeToo Movement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I\u2019ve seen some, so I know that they\u2019re out there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> We need to be; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We do need to be. It was almost just this fall when the #MeToo movement came out. There were just so many scandals that were\u2014that the cover was taken off it\u2014and you could <em>see<\/em> what was going on. It was like: \u201cWhat next is going to happen? What next is going to be found out?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> And if we need to clean house in the Christian church, we need to clean house. If we have inappropriate things happening to women within churches, we\u2019ve got to create a communication climate, where women can come forward\u2014even if it\u2019s just so depressing, the names that are being implicated\u2014again, due process! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a man, it does concern me that a person can have an allegation against me, and that allegation\u2019s going to do a lot of damage. I have to have certain protection; there has to be due process. That\u2019s why HR exists within organizations. But I want women to have the freedom to say, \u201cI can\u2019t stay silent about this anymore.\u201d To me, that\u2019s a <em>good<\/em> thing\u2014and needs to start with the house of God\u2014that we clean house first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRemember the book of Hebrews: \u201cI want you to pray for those in prison as if <em>you<\/em> were in prison.\u201d I think we always need to imagine what it was like to be a woman, who has had to endure this kind of sexism; or a child living in abject poverty. We need to have times of respite; but we need to always go back to say, \u201cThis is the pain that I\u2019ve been called to deal with [on behalf of others].\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of the woman at the well, and just having Jesus show up and talk to her!\u2014and for her to walk away, going, \u201cWow! What an <em>incredible<\/em> man He was. He cared about <em>me<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That message radicalized the ancient world\u2014is that women and children\u2014God loved them <em>equally<\/em> as men. There is not one\u2014this is what I love about Christianity\u2014there is not one person in this world [who] is beyond the <em>imago dei<\/em>\/beyond the fact that they were made in the image of God. That is <em>radical<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI spent some time in India; we visited some orphanages that were heartbreaking. If you were a woman, with any type of deformity, you were <em>never<\/em> getting out of that orphanage. No one is going to marry you; no one is going to have any time for you. I <em>love<\/em> that Jesus walks into those situations and says, \u201cNo; you are equally valuable to Me as anyone.\u201d That\u2019s the <em>radical<\/em> message of Christianity; I love that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Very important, very important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sad to say that our time has run out. Tim, thank you so much for spending time with me today and helping us understand feminism, and the #MeToo movement, and just everything. Your advice and wisdom on the topic has been fantastic and wonderful. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I love that Tim reminded us that we\u2014men and women\u2014that we\u2019re <em>equal<\/em> in God\u2019s image. We were <em>created<\/em> equal; we are co-laborers in His kingdom, and we are co-heirs with Christ; and we\u2019re called to different roles. But equality doesn\u2019t mean sameness. We live in a world, where we think sameness and equality should be the same thing; we expect sameness, as in equal pay\/equal treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there\u2019s something deeper at play in the minds of many Christian women today\/many young Christian women today. The secular feminist movement has affected us all. Courtney Reissig would say that she\u2019s an \u201caccidental feminist,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the title of her first book. One thing that Courtney points out is that secular feminism\u2014that has seduced many women\u2014it\u2019s not the answer. There\u2019s a better answer, and it\u2019s <em>bigger<\/em>. Here\u2019s Courtney talking with Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Broadcast]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>I think it is default. I think some women are, consciously, saying they are feminist. When those women are\u2014I think they maybe are seeing some evidences of women not being, in their minds, equal\u2014or they feel like women are not getting the advantages that they need, and so they want equality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think most women are embracing feminism and not even realizing it. Even a woman, who would say, \u201cI\u2019m not a feminist,\u201d is most likely embracing it; because it\u2019s just what we live and breathe in our culture now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, if you ask the average person on the street: \u201cWhat is feminism?\u201d most of them are going to say, \u201cEqual pay for equal work;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s what feminism is.\u201d By the way, if that\u2019s what it is, I\u2019m a feminist.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You don\u2019t have any problems with equal pay for equal work for women; right?\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0No; no, I don\u2019t. A Christian women\u2019s author calls it: \u201cA radical notion that Jesus believes that women are people too,\u201d\u2014which is\u2014[Laughter]\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You would agree with that?\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Absolutely!\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Okay; so what\u2019s the difference between \u201cthe radical notion that Jesus believes women are people too,\u201d and the kind of feminism that you would say is problematic in the church culture today?\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Because feminism is very fluid, so people\/you can\u2019t really pin it down. Some women will say\u2014like the other author would say that \u201cIt\u2019s the radical notion that women are people too,\u201d\u2014some would say it is equality: \u201cEqual pay for equal work.\u201d I define it as: \u201cEquality equals sameness.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe I first heard Mary Kassian say that before\/is that: \u201cWe are equal; therefore, we are the same,\u201d\u2014so we can do the same things\u2014if a woman wants to preach, she can preach; submission in marriage is mutual\u2014It doesn\u2019t matter if the husband submits or the wife submits\u2014we are both called to submit to one another. It doesn\u2019t matter who stays home with the children\u2014a husband can stay home or a mom can stay home\u2014it doesn\u2019t really matter. It\u2019s the interchangeability of that; besides biology, we\u2019re really not all that different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that that\u2019s the more problematic notion of feminism. That\u2019s kind of what we all believe if we are not consciously looking beyond that for answers in Scripture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You answer that in your book by going back to the book of Genesis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\u2014and talk about how men and women are made in the image of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Yes; yes. People think feminism is the answer for women; and I actually, think it\u2019s not. I think Genesis is the answer for women\u2014God created us in His image\u2014we are telling a story about God in our humanity. But then, it also goes on to say, in\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Gen%201.26\" target=\"_blank\">Genesis 1:26<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Genesis%201.27\" target=\"_blank\">27<\/a>, that He created male and female in His image. There has got to be something there about being female that images God that is not just mere humanity or biology.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that feminism was trying to answer a problem of the battle of the sexes, which is a problem that we see coming out of Genesis 3, where sin entered the world; and now, we have strife. Feminism isn\u2019t the answer. If we had just gone back to the Word of God, we could see that the answer is found in: \u201cWe were created to image God in very unique ways that tell a\u00a0story\u00a0about who God is,\u201d\u2014and a much better story than what feminism could ever tell us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I\u2019ve said, for years, that during the \u201850s and the \u201860s\u2014the time when I was growing up\u2014I think the culture endorsed and embraced male selfishness in such a way that, after years of that, a lot of women said: \u201cWell, now, hang on just a second!\u00a0 If men can be as self-focused as they can be, we should have the right to be equally selfish.\u201d\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And I\u2019ve said that, in my mind, is: \u201cSecond-wave feminism\u2019s, saying, \u2018I want the right to be as self-focused and as selfish as men have been allowed to be,\u2019\u2014not just allowed to be but celebrated.\u201d I, for one, am not interested in going back to the\u00a0Mad Men\u00a0days and saying, \u201cThis is what it should be like for men and women in our culture.\u201d\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0It\u2019s so unique, too, in an American Western culture. It doesn\u2019t take into account the person, who lives in India, or the person, who lives in Africa. We\/there has got to be something bigger than just a throwback to the \u201850s and \u201860s, or even a throwback to the 1900s and late 1800s, when first-wave feminists were coming on the scene; because they were answering a very real problem of women had no voice. A husband could divorce his wife and take her children, and she had <em>no<\/em> voice to do anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCourtney:\u00a0Maternal health laws weren\u2019t in place, so a woman had no voice to care for herself and her unborn baby. There were very real problems that were addressed; but I think, as Christians, we have a better answer than putting women in front of men and continuing this whole battle-of-the-sexes thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Courtney Reissig talking about the <em>cost<\/em> of secular feminism. I love what Courtney has to say\u2014that we are in a Genesis 3 world\u2014we have sinned against God; the world is <em>broken<\/em> because of that. We have forgotten that we are made in His image; and we should not be at war, because He made man and woman in His image. If you look at the Trinity, and how the Trinity reflects relationship\u2014perfect relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit\u2014we should be at peace and reflecting Him to a watching world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you want to hear the entire interview with Courtney Reissig on <em>Accidental Feminism<\/em>, go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNext time, we\u2019re going to talk about prodigals. Do you ever find someone you love rejecting the gospel and rebelling against <em>you<\/em>? We\u2019re going to give you help and hope if there\u2019s a prodigal in your life. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, thanks for listening! I want to thank the co-founder of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and the president, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. A big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producers, Bruce Goff and Marques Holt. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer; Megan Martin is our production coordinator; and Raven Simmons is our production intern.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/307206","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=307206"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=307206"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=307206"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=307206"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=307206"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=307206"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=307206"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}