{"id":307202,"date":"2021-08-18T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-08-18T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/fire-carriers\/"},"modified":"2021-08-18T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-08-18T11:00:05","slug":"fire-carriers","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fire-carriers\/","title":{"rendered":"Fire Carriers"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>No matter what trials the Church has faced in history, the fire of the Gospel has continued. Valerie Bell, Matt Markins, and Mike Handler declare that the Church is meant to carry the fire to the next generation.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-08-18.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:05","filesize":"28.47M","filesize_raw":"29849367","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2806,2855,2870],"tags":[4798,2209],"podcast_series":[8466],"cwp_profile":[9728,9729,9727],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307202","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-spiritual-development","category-teens","category-tweens","tag-kids","tag-parenting","podcast_series-raising-resilient-kids","cwp_profile-matt-markins","cwp_profile-mike-handler","cwp_profile-valerie-bell","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307202\/fire-carriers","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307202\/fire-carriers","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"tZ3qwXXXVV\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fire-carriers\/\">Fire Carriers<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fire-carriers\/embed\/#?secret=tZ3qwXXXVV\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Fire Carriers&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"tZ3qwXXXVV\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"No matter what trials the Church has faced in history, the fire of the Gospel has continued. Valerie Bell, Matt Markins, and Mike Handler declare that the Church is meant to carry the fire to the next generation.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-08-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright; as parents, we have <em>one<\/em> job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to lead our kids to Christ and disciple them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Yes, I was sort of looking for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven as a pastor\u2014I think we get lost in this\u2014when we peel it all back and say, \u201cWhat are we really trying to do?\u201d it\u2019s the Great Commission. You go back to Matthew 28; Jesus said, \u201cGo and make disciples,\u201d\u2014and we can lose that\u2014we do services; we do ministries. It\u2019s like, \u201cWait; at the end of the day, we are actually trying to raise up a man or woman, who is resilient follower of Jesus Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u2014<em> Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs parents, we have <em>one<\/em> job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to lead our kids to Christ and disciple them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s the goal\/that\u2019s the target; that\u2019s what we\u2019re shooting for. How do we get there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have three people in the studio that wrote a book that basically tells us how to get there. It didn\u2019t take one person; it took three to write this. All three of you work with Awana, this <em>amazing<\/em> ministry that\u2019s been around for 70 years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Seventy years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Seventy years, and it\u2019s really discipled\/can I say millions?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve written the book called <em>Resilient: Child Discipleship and the Fearless Future of the Church.<\/em> We\u2019re excited to have you guys back with us today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> We\u2019re happy to be here; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the questions we all have\u2014you use the term in the book; I guess it\u2019s another word for disciple\u2014fire carriers. When I first heard that\u2014again, I\u2019ve never read it anywhere else\u2014I see it here, and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, as a dad, as a mom, as a minister,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I really like that term.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI want to raise fire-carriers.\u201d First, define it; and then let\u2019s talk about how we do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Well, fire carriers comes from our Western culture, where, out on the prairies, the cowboys would have to make these fires. There was always one person that was designated to carry the fire to make sure that the fire didn\u2019t go out so that they could be protected from wild animals, so that they could have warmth, and so that they could cook their food. This person had an honored position.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought about that\u2014and I thought, you know, all through the church\u2019s history, we have had fire carriers\u2014we have had fire carriers, who from the beginning of the early church, carried the fire of the gospel, even during persecution. If you look all through history, no matter what terrible thing was happening, there was always this group who refused to let the fire go out. They carried the gospel passionately to the next generation, and they made sure that those who came behind them had the protection of the spiritual fire that they carried.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe asked ourselves: \u201cAre we fire carriers? Are we carrying that fire to the next generations?\u201d and \u201cWill it give them protection, strength, and warmth, spiritually, when we\u2019re gone?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s interesting; at the beginning of the book\u2014we haven\u2019t even talked about this\u2014I knew a little bit about this man, who stood at the flag\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014when you just talked about fire carriers\u2014I thought, \u201cThis is pretty interesting.\u201d He would be a high school kid; right? Tell that story; it\u2019s pretty powerful to think of, as a parent listening to this, \u201cThis is what I\u2019m hoping someday my son or daughter would be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Hayden was this young man who\u2014like any high schooler, who is standing up for his faith\u2014was thinking he was taking a courageous move and being public with his faith. He went to this event, called See You at the Pole, at his local high school, where students gather around their flag poles to pray. He was the only one there. Time went on; and nobody showed, and nobody showed, and nobody showed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHayden\u2019s mom uploaded the picture, and it went viral throughout social media. Hayden became that symbol, if you will, of resilience, especially on a public high school campus. Hayden\u2019s mom said this: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHayden told me that, as he stood alone and prayed, the cry of his heart had been, \u201cGod, as people drive by, let them wonder\/let their hearts be pricked.\u201d Eventually, when he realized that no one else was coming, the cry of his heart changed. He asked that God would do something with his standing alone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe little boy I had rocked asleep in blue airplane pajamas\u201d\u2014I\u2019m sure he was thrilled that his mom put that out there\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\u201cthe toddler, who loved Elmo, and couldn\u2019t go to sleep without holding his VeggieTales characters in his hand, had captured the attention of our community by standing alone\/by doing everything we\u2019d ever taught him\u2014everything we\u2019d ever hoped he would do\u2014I was completely undone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hearing the perspective of the mom\u2014that\u2019s all of us, as parents\u2014that\u2019s who we\u2019re trying to raise: a fire carrier\/a resilient young man, who will become a man or a woman, who carries the gospel to the next generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe big question, again, is: \u201cHelp us understand: \u2018How do we do that? What are some of the steps we can take?\u2019\u201d I\u2019m sure listeners are like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m with you; I\u2019m all in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> \u201cGot it\u201d; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cGive me some help to do it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Dave, I want to reassure parents, too, that this is the work of the Holy Spirit. Yes, we have our part\/the church has a part; but I\u2019m always reassured that the Holy Spirit\u2019s walking alongside us <em>and<\/em> our kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was in high school\u2014I never grew up in church\u2014and at 16 years old, I surrendered my life to Jesus. It was the first time I had ever heard the gospel; and I was thinking, \u201cHow has no one told me this?! I now know how to get to heaven; I can have an impact.\u201d It was the good news to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverywhere I\u2019m going\u2014and, you guys, I was the most <em>annoying<\/em> person\u2014I walked into my home at night and said, \u201cWe\u2019re all going to hell unless we know Jesus!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike: <\/strong>I love this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I would go to school, and none of my friends were believers. I would take my big Bible, and I would read it in class and in study hall. I would push it every day over to my friend, like, \u201cRead this! This is amazing! This is in the Bible!\u201d I was so annoying. It came to the point, where she took my Bible\u2014she looked at me right in the eyes\u2014she took a big handful of pages, and ripped them out of my Bible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, years later\u2014we were out of college; we were married\u2014she came to my home when we were at home, just in town for a weekend, and she knocked on the door. I was so thrilled to see her, because I loved her; our paths kind of had split. She said, \u201cDo you remember when I tore out all those pages of your Bible?\u201d I laughed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Sort of a memorable moment!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I said, \u201cI do; I apologize. I was probably so annoying. I\u2019m so sorry, but I was so excited about what Jesus was doing in my life.\u201d She said, \u201cCould you tell me all of that now?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She gave her life to Christ right there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I thought it was a <em>failure<\/em>; and yet again, God\u2019s Spirit was moving and working.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the thing\u2014I mean, you think about what Ann experienced, and Hayden, and resilient fire carrier disciples\u2014you have studied this; this is what you do\u2014help young people become followers of Christ and resilient disciples\u2014what have you learned? \u201cHow can we, as parents\/how can the church accomplish our mission?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> From 2014 to 2019, we conducted, at least, four research projects and pulled together other organizations\u2019 research; we studied the Gospels. We wanted to know: \u201cHow did Jesus make disciples?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tValerie, as CEO, she gets hundreds, and even thousands of letters over the course of a long time period, and we combed through those types of real-life testimonies. All of our research came down to three factors\u2014parents, local church leaders\u2014these are the three factors that most shape a child\u2019s long-term identity as a disciple; it\u2019s: \u201cBelong, believe, become.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMike, why don\u2019t we define those?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Belong is\u2014the short version of it\u2014is highly relational. It\u2019s creating an environment of relationship. The gospel doesn\u2019t happen in isolation very often\u2014we\u2019re not made for that\u2014we\u2019re made for community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> I think of that illustration with your girlfriend. You were already discipling through your relationship with her. There was that highly-relational thing that was going on between these two high school girls. You were laying down the tracks for discipleship, even back then.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> That first \u201cB\u201d is Belonging: highly relational. The second \u201cB\u201d is Believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> \u2014which is deeply Scriptural ministry, rooted in the truth of God\u2019s Word. You can\u2019t come to know and abide with Jesus without getting to know Him through His Word. So the ability to, not just know a child or be known as a child, but to be known and walk through the Word of God that reveals to us Jesus. John writes, \u201cI write to you these things that you would believe.\u201d We know that the Bible is given to us, as God\u2019s Word, that we would believe in Jesus as the Christ\/as the King.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s pause there for a minute. Talk about how you guys have done that. You\u2019re parents\u2014all of you are parents\u2014how have you done that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> First of all, we\u2019ve always explained to our kids, from as early as they were able to comprehend, we explained the gospel as a big-picture story: creation, fall, redemption, restoration. They\u2019re hearing, outside of our home, that life happens by happenstance; and we came about by natural processes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a better story than that; it\u2019s that there\u2019s a Creator. We chose, in our own rebellion, to pull away from God and to put ourselves above Him. Jesus is our Redeemer, and He\u2019s going to restore us over time. That\u2019s a better story, so helping our kids see that. But then\u2014engaging them in community reading of the Bible at church and at home, and helping them to read the Bible on their own\u2014you\u2019re trying to eventually get them to where it\u2019s not just a checklist that: \u201cI\u2019m reading the Bible for knowledge\u201d; it\u2019s an intimate relationship with Jesus; because they see, like your friend, \u201cHe\u2019s my Savior.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> We said: \u201cGod is who He says He is in the Bible, not who you think He is or somebody else thinks He is,\u201d and \u201cHe is for us; that is the message all the way through the Scriptures. God is <em>for<\/em> us: so He is personal; He is involved in your life; He is active in your life; and He wants to be a part of everything that you do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe emphasize, like you guys, the personal aspect of God as shown to us through Scripture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is interesting\/I\u2019m guessing you put these three B\u2019s in order?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> They are semi-sequential; but you know, the Holy Spirit can work in ways that\u2014 [Laughter]\u2014however\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What I\u2019m thinking, though\u2014because we missed it in the \u201990s, as I led a church\u2014we put Believe first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We were like, \u201cMan, we want people coming to our church. Once they become believers, we can get them connected to \u2018belong.\u2019\u201d We <em>missed<\/em> what God is like: \u201cNo, He created relational beings. <em>Many<\/em> people want to <em>belong<\/em> before they even consider.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re saying that\u2019s <em>key<\/em> to discipleship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> \u2014100 percent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Studying the life of Jesus\/studying how Jesus made disciples is what helped us to put them in that order: \u201cLook at the woman at the well,\u201d \u201cLook at how Jesus was walking along the road\/how He engaged them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He was discipling <em>before<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes, absolutely. That\u2019s where some of the sequence does come out of play\u2014because Jesus was hanging around people\u2014and they were catching from Jesus some things before He even taught them to them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s why I brought it up. I\u2019m also\u2014again, I have my dad hat on in a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> program about marriage and family\u2014I\u2019m thinking: \u201cDad or mom, if you\u2019re really trying to help your son or daughter become a disciple, don\u2019t miss this! It isn\u2019t: \u2018Just get them to church,\u2019 \u2018Get them into Sunday school, and drive them home,\u2019\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cespecially as they become teenagers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIs there a relationship? Are you spending time? Are you hanging with them? Are you just loving them and being their dad? <em>Then<\/em> the belief is going to come out of that relationship.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> That\u2019s <em>key<\/em>; help them walk through life\u2019s circumstances through the matrix of Scripture as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, so good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re talking about the three critical factors in developing resilient disciples. We talked about Belong, and Belief; and the third one\u2019s what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Become, which is what traditionally have just\u2014only that one have we qualified as discipleship\u2014but we believe that Become is truly experiential ministry designed to move kids from a simulation to real-world application of their faith. That happens around dinner tables; that happens post-soccer games, where we lose; that happens everywhere that we\u2019re with our kids. It\u2019s not just segmented or sanctioned for one space or one place; it\u2019s <em>all<\/em> of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> That happens when your child says: \u201cI\u2019m feeling left out,\u201d or \u201cHow do I navigate this situation?\u201d We step right beside them through dialogue\/through conversation. We help them to have eyes to see our faith story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tValerie, talk about helping kids have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Well, I see it in that Hayden illustration. Here, you have someone who has become a disciple; they are willing to have primary allegiance and let the other groups in their life kind of take second-row seats. They are willing to be different; they are willing to be extraordinary in some ways; they are disciples. It\u2019s not just the head knowledge or the church affiliation\u2014there\u2019s what I call ownership\u2014suddenly there\u2019s this ownership and, \u201cI am following the Christ way; I\u2019m following the Jesus pathway.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> As loving, caring adults\u2014as parents\u2014we can tell <em>our<\/em> faith stories to our kids in a way that helps them to see: \u201cThis is <em>real<\/em>, and my parents are helping me see that God is active in my life.\u201d That\u2019s Becoming.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe haven\u2019t even told you the best news yet!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What\u2019s that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> The best news is, not just these three components; it\u2019s all three factors combined together. \u201cWhat\u2019s happening there?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s shaping their identity as a resilient disciple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> I\u2019d like to say something else, too: \u201cEven though we are talking about child discipleship, we\u2019re really not talking about child discipleship. [Laughter] We\u2019re talking about lifelong discipleship. So how do we create an environment for our children that they will <em>want<\/em> to be disciples throughout their lifetime?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> That\u2019s really what we\u2019re talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you this, as we sort of wrap up a <em>long<\/em> discussion: \u201cHow has this worked in your own home? As you think about <em>your<\/em> kids\u2014maybe think highs, lows\/learning: \u201cWhat we did right,\u201d \u201cWhat we did wrong,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cDoes it work?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014have you seen God work in your children?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> This is real; this is real. In our organization\u2014the churches that we serve and work with\u2014people are stepping forward and saying, \u201cThis resonates with me, because this is what I actually see happening. This is what\u2019s fruitful.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think of my own children. They came to me, because they felt like they could; because we had relationship. We talk about that\u2014we listen; we go back to the Scripture: \u201cWhat does God\u2019s Word say?\u201d\u2014we commission them back out to do what?\u2014to go back and get that life\u2019s experience. We see these patterns happen in our lives; we see them in the way Jesus built disciples; and we see it in our own families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes; and I think it\u2019s also, in our house, I think about how I\u2019m Dad taxi in the morning\u2014I take kids to school\u2014and I love it; because even during those small moments, we\u2019re able to process some pretty big things. There\u2019s a prayer we pray every day. A portion of that prayer that I pray with my kids, as we go to school, is simply, \u201cAllow us to be kind to others, even when they\u2019re not kind to us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that\u2019s not all of life, per se; this is one example\/one little snapshot. But even in those simple words, I want my kids to understand that the gospel doesn\u2019t just happen when it\u2019s convenient, or when things are easy, or when life is light. It happens during heaviness; it happens during difficult times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, hopefully, in dialogue and discussion and relationship with my kids, we\u2019re able to process together: \u201cLook, life isn\u2019t always going to be neat, and orderly, and tidy. You will get treated unfairly, unkindly; and we\u2019re still\u201d\u2014in the words of Christ\u2014\u201csupposed to love our enemies\u201d; right? Again, that\u2019s a small little snapshot in our own home about how this type of thing <em>applies<\/em> itself to our everyday life; I mean, a simple prayer on the way to school every day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Valerie, you\u2019re a grandmother, like we are grandparents.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to the parent\u2014I\u2019m guessing there are a lot of them listening, that are going\u2014\u201cMy son or daughter walked away; they\u2019re still a prodigal. How do I process that? What do I think, as a parent, in that home?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> I believe that God writes the last chapter, and God puts the period on the story. It is <em>never<\/em> over \u2018til God does that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have a girlfriend, whose husband died when she had teenagers, and had to raise four teenagers by herself. You can <em>imagine<\/em> what they put her through! One of her boys got involved in drugs; he had a child out of wedlock; he spent some time in prison. This was an upstanding Christian home\u2014that this was happening to her\u2014but he did come back to Christ. I thought it was so interesting\u2014his summary of that time in his life\u2014he said, \u201cI was doing all the things the other guys were doing but not enjoying it.\u201d There was the Holy Spirit in his life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do believe that God hears our prayers\u2014keep building that bridge\u2014don\u2019t ever break the bridge off. Make it <em>easy<\/em> for them to come back. Keep sending the birthday cards, even if they come back to you. Send the Christmas gifts. Keep inviting, even if they say, \u201cNo.\u201d Just wear them down with love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve also seen that God brings other people into this scenario. I\u2019ve seen these scenarios, many times, where a parent can\u2019t get through anymore; but God brings other people. I want you to hear my heart: \u201cI understand how very painful that is, and I feel that. We all feel that for you. Don\u2019t give up hope, though; because there is a God who loves your child more than you do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, for parents, that feel like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m too late. I have teenagers, and they\u2019re not listening to me,\u201d it\u2019s never too late, even for you to sit down and to say, \u201cTell me your thoughts. I want to know who you are,\u201d and to speak life into them. That loving\u2014\u201cI see that you\u2019re a leader,\u201d \u201cI see that strong passion that you have,\u201d\u2014our kids will always be drawn to our words of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Never give up your hope and dream of a resilient disciple of your children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s still God\u2019s hope. Get on your knees\u2014we do it every day\u2014surrender yourself and surrender them again\/surrender your kids back to Him\u2014say, \u201cThey\u2019re Yours. They\u2019re not mine; they\u2019re Yours.\u201d We could do everything right\/it doesn\u2019t work; we could do everything wrong: \u201cGod, we surrender this vision to You.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Valerie, will you close us with praying for the parents\/the listeners?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Valerie:<\/strong> Absolutely. Yes, let\u2019s pray.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, we don\u2019t know the names of the people who are listening, but You do. There is a reason that they were listening. We ask You to bless their lives. We ask You to show Your presence to them, that You would come alongside them as they diligently work towards being Christian families and Christian parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe pray that You\u2019ll give them a dream that they won\u2019t be afraid to dream for their children, that will include the future, where their children are resilient disciples\/resilient leaders, who will infuse the church of 2050 with leadership, and vision, and love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, we pray this blessing over each of them, and may it be accomplished in Your power and in Your name. Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Amen. Thanks for being with us, you guys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Thanks for having us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As Valerie Bell was praying, I was praying as well\u2014praying for my kids, for my grandchildren, praying for the future of the church in America and around the world in the next 30 years\u2014that ought to be on the heart of every person listening. We ought to be, not only wanting God to be at work in the lives of our children and our families in the years to come, but wanting God\u2019s kingdom to advance through our kids and our grandkids in the years to come.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what\u2019s at the heart of the book that Valerie Bell, Matt Markins, and Mike Handler have written, a book called <em>Resilient<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019re making available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to request your copy, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; the title of the book is <em>Resilient: Child Discipleship and the Fearless Future of the Church<\/em>. You can also request your copy by calling 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I know for a lot of you, this is kind of a season of shifting gears: as we end the summer, as the fall is beginning, back to school time happening. Here at FamilyLife, we\u2019re shifting gears as well. David Robbins, who\u2019s the president of FamilyLife, is here with us. David, we have a lot of exciting plans ahead for the fall of 2021.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right, Bob. Yes, September really does begin a full-throttle mode for us, which is really exciting to be able to say in the context of this past year of a pandemic. We\u2019re planning many things for this fall. One is that our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>getaways\u2014we will have all 30 of them\u2014we\u2019ve gone from a pandemic year, where we had 7 events, at about 30 percent capacity. We are <em>so<\/em> encouraged and grateful that we get to move into this fall and have a <em>full<\/em> slate of <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why we need your help. That\u2019s just one of our initiatives of being able to come into this fall, and really go full-steam ahead in taking the gospel and the biblical principles of marriages and family to as many people as possible; and we need your help to be able to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s how you can help us this week and next week. We\u2019ve set a goal; we\u2019re praying that God would raise up two families in every city where <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is heard, who would step forward and become new monthly Legacy Partners\/supporters of this ministry on a monthly basis. You\u2019re actually making <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible, not just for you, but for people in your community\/in your city.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d if you can join us as a Legacy Partner, by sending you a copy of Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s new book, <em>No Perfect Parents<\/em>, along with an all-access pass to more than a dozen messages from Dave and Ann\u2014some have been featured on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; some have not been heard yet\u2014you\u2019ll have access to those messages. <em>And<\/em> we\u2019ll send you a certificate so that either you and your spouse, or someone you know, who you\u2019d like to give a gift to, you can attend a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway this fall. We have about 30 getaways happening. We\u2019ll send the certificate, and you can use it for yourself or pass it on to somebody else.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of this is our way of saying, \u201cThank you for being a part of the team that makes <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible in your community.\u201d You do that by becoming a monthly Legacy Partner. Information is available online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call us and say, \u201cI want to join the team. I want to help make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> happen in our community.\u201d The number to call is 1-800-FL-TODAY, and we look forward to hearing from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about how we do family discipleship in our home: \u201cHow do we help train our kids to be the kind of future leaders of the church that we\u2019ve been talking about this week?\u201d Kennon Vaughan, who\u2019s a pastor, is going to join us to talk about what he\u2019s doing in his home. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/307202","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=307202"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=307202"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=307202"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=307202"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=307202"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=307202"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=307202"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}